Bills should keep their options open at QB
by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 9:00 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
239 comments
Most of the discussions that we've had over the past several days regarding our beloved Buffalo Bills have centered around the team's upcoming transition to the 3-4 defense under new defensive coordinator George Edwards. That move is expected to begin a rather serious overhaul of the team's defensive personnel, and has opened up a whole new list of needs to add to this off-season's "to do" list.
Let's not lose sight of one deniable fact, though: quarterback is still Buffalo's biggest problem. It's been Buffalo's biggest problem since 1997. The Bills could go out and grab every dominant 3-4 defender this off-season, fix the offensive line, and still have a good shot at missing the playoffs without even an average quarterback. Unless you missed this year's playoffs or Super Bowl XLIV, it should be fairly apparent that you need a good quarterback to win in this league.
Rumors and unconfirmed reports are starting to circulate that the Bills are poking around veteran quarterbacks. You'll probably hear more of those types of reports over the next month or so. Buffalo would be wise to keep their options as open as possible at this position, because it's their most critical need, bar none.
With all of that said, there are five quarterbacks that I'm looking at as legitimate starting options for this team heading into the 2010 season. All five of these players could be available, though we're remaining skeptical on at least two of them. Before we get to those names, yes - these are the only veteran signal callers I'm considering as starting-caliber. If Buffalo can't land one of these guys, they might as well commit their top draft pick to a quarterback.
1 - Donovan McNabb. ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reported over the weekend that three times - Cleveland, Denver and Buffalo - had been in contact with Philadelphia regarding McNabb. Make no mistake - the odds are still very, very remote that McNabb goes anywhere. I'll repeat that: McNabb probably isn't going anywhere. But it's clear that Philly has to make a move at the QB position, and I'm also certain that they'd loosen their stance on McNabb if an offer blew them away. McNabb might be quite expensive to acquire for Buffalo - we're talking about heavy draft pick compensation, in all likelihood - but there's little doubt that in terms of even quasi-available veterans, McNabb is clearly the best of the group.
2 - David Garrard. Garrard's head coach, Jack Del Rio, didn't exactly give his quarterback a ringing endorsement last week, essentially saying that Garrard can be a winner, but that he'll never be elite. As harsh and ill-chosen as Del Rio's words were, they're also accurate. Garrard is the epitome of "average NFL quarterback," capable of winning you games as well as routinely blowing them. If Jacksonville decides to go in another direction - and let's face it, the Tim Tebow hype won't die until he's got a team - Garrard would be a good short-term solution for the Bills. Again, it might take a trade to pull it off, but it wouldn't be near the territory of a McNabb trade.
3 - Chad Pennington. Reports have already surfaced that Pennington plans on continuing his playing career after yet another shoulder injury landed him on IR in 2009. He's an unrestricted free agent, and there are rumors making the rounds that he could accept a backup role on a contender. If Pennington wants to play, however, Buffalo might be one of his few good options; he certainly has a familiarity with the division. Here, Pennington would be a very short-term starter and mentor to a young guy, much as he was in Miami with Chad Henne. Buffalo would have competition for his services, however - there's a strong chance Pennington simply goes back to Miami to be Henne's backup.
4 - Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen made a name for himself in 2008, when he emerged as a solid young prospect while putting up good numbers running Chan Gailey's offense. That tie will lead to speculation that Gailey could choose to reunite himself with Thigpen; currently employed by Miami, he's another player that the team would have to acquire via trade. There's a not-insignificant crowd of NFL scouts that believe Thigpen, who will be 26 this April, has what it takes to be a franchise quarterback at this level. Though Kansas City was just 1-10 in the 11 starts he made in 2008, Thigpen threw 17 touchdowns to 12 interceptions in those contests. That's more scoring tosses than any Bills quarterback has had over the last three years. I, personally, would be very intrigued with a Gailey/Thigpen reunion, but rank him this low because, obviously, Thigpen isn't exactly experienced. He'd be a rather large gamble on the organization's part.
5 - Michael Vick. I hesitate to even think of Vick as a legitimate starting option, but beggars can't be choosers. Vick has enough talent to get you by offensively, though to expect him to be the face of a franchise at this point, I think, is ill-advised. He'd definitely be a controversial acquisition, but no matter which way you slice it, Vick is good enough to win you a few games. I don't look at him as a long-term solution (more as a Pennington-type short-term plan, actually), and he ranks below Tyler Thigpen on this list for a reason. That said, the headline of this article says it all - the Bills need to keep their options open, and Vick is certainly an option.
Again, I don't think McNabb or Garrard will be changing addresses this off-season. Philadelphia can still make a Super Bowl with McNabb at the helm, and Jacksonville would be, frankly, stupid to jettison an average quarterback in a dry off-season for quarterback talent. Pennington and Thigpen - yes, the fact that they're both Dolphins makes me somewhat queasy - are the two guys I'm looking at as legitimate starting options (yes, I'd rather see Thigpen earn the job, too), with Vick a somewhat undesirable Plan C (behind the top two rookies, Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen).
There. I've had dozens of emails asking me this question; now you know where I stand on the quarterback issue. You might as well fill me in (or in many cases, re-iterate) where you stand; alter this list or change it completely if you like.
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Nice but..
How about sticking with Fitz. I think he is just as good as everyone but McNabb (on your list)
Giving up a draft pick is too valuable unless a long term solution like Kolb or something like that.
I think Fitz showed some positives, little bit more time to throw and a better offensive system, he should be able to fill in until a franchise qb is obtained or if Brohm can develop in the next 2 -3 years.
You’re much higher on Fitzpatrick than I am. I see nothing ideal about giving our starting quarterback job to a backup.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think he is just as good as everyone but McNabb (on your list)
QB………..Career Rate……..2009 Rate….
Fitz………..67.7……………………69.7………
Garrard…83.5…………………….84.9…….
Chad P…..90.0…………………..NA……….
Thiggy……76.00…………………NA……….
Vick……….75.7……………………NA……….
How is Fitz better than any of these guys?
Giving up a draft pick is too valuable unless a long term solution like Kolb or something like that.
That we agree on, except i would say that anything above round 3 is too valuable. I’d give up a 3rd rounder for several of these guys..
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
well put JPH
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by poz on Feb 9, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Good post JPH
IMO, anything above a 5th is too much for any of these guys.
-McNabb is great, but the price is too high.
-Garrard, no thanks, I dont want to miss the chance to draft a potential star bcuz we has to trade the 2nd or 3rd rd picks or more to get an avg QB.
-Pennington would be the 2nd best option on this list for me (I dont count McNabb, price too high).
-Thigpen is the only QB on I here would be okay trading for. He was a 7th rd pick of the Vikes, released to be signed on the PS, but the Chiefs scooped off the waiver wire. The Dolphins sent the Chiefs an undisclosed conditional pick, but considering the limited snaps he took, the Dolphins probably end up sending a 5th, 6th, or 7th. I think if we match the pick to what the Dolphins gave up, they might bite. Send them Parrish too, if they will take him.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 9, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I’d very much like to hear why you don’t think any of these options are good, particularly when Donovan Freaking McNabb is on the list.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
I would say because of what we would potentially have to give away to get McNabb won't not be worth it for a team in a 2-3 year
rebuilding mode. And why in the hell would McNabb want to spend his few remaining years as QB of a Bills team with little shot of even making the playoffs?
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
ditto
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
Couldn't McNabb feel he might be the missing piece
to get a team like Buffalo or Cleveland over the hump?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
hear hear!
If you’re in rebuilding mode you might as well go all in. 2 more years of a QB in decline and then 2 more years of developing a new QB is almost too much to bear. Even with McNabb I think the best we can hope for next year is 9 and 7. That puts us with a #1 draft pick at around 20th and the chances of finding a sure thing QB are slimmer there. (and I do know that all QB picks are a crap shoot)
I mostly agree. I think a new contract and a few years worth of job security would be the big selling point. No clue if that would work, but I could see McNabb accepting a trade to Buffalo to sign a 5 year 50 mil deal and maybe finish out his career in one place.
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I just don't see what you do in Thigpen.
He was 1-10 under Gailey, and on a team not too dissimilar to these Bills.
*1 Pennington would be a name hire, but I think the glory ends there. I hope they stay far away from his surgical file-I mean body of work.
*1 I really like McNabb but I do worry how he’d fare with a terrible OL. Yes, they’re that bad here. McNabb would make me VERY happy though. VERY happy.
*1 I’d be pretty content with Garrard. I like the way he plays the game, and he isn’t someone who you’d automatically expect to carry the team. I think best case scenario for him is a Matt Schaub-like development. And no, I’m not comparing his measurables to Schaub.
*1 Vick would be very bizarre. I don’t know how to assess what bringing him to Buffalo would mean. I don’t know what kind of QB he his now, and I don’t know that he’s washed up.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 9:31 AM EST reply actions
I honestly couldn’t give a crap what Thigpen’s record was as a starter, because it’s hard to do much better when your defense is giving up 29 per game.
Thigpen completed a solid % of his passes (56) despite being forced to heave it up 33 times per start. He threw 17 touchdowns in those 11 starts – last time a Bills QB did that was Losman in ‘06. The Chiefs averaged 21 points per game in his starts, which isn’t great, obviously, but solid considering the Chiefs had no running game because they were behind all the time.
I like his moxie. I like his gunslinger mentality. I like that he was able to play REALLY solid, at times mistake-free football despite having zero experience. I like his familiarity with Gailey. I like the fact that he’s 26, has been through some adversity, and has the tools to get better fast.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If he could be had without giving up a pick, sure, i’d entertain the thought. I just find him to be ordinary and likely to become the next in a long line in the annals of Journeyman Bills QBs.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I just find him to be ordinary and likely to become the next in a long line in the annals of Journeyman Bills QBs.
There’s a chance any of these guys fit that bill.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
It’s true, yes. Well, no not McNabb. I wonder if he’ll make the HOF, but I think he’s had a tremendous career. He just wins and his team is always in the playoffs.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
that pretty much sums it up and is the reason why he’s #1 on my list (well McNabb but I doubt he gets moved). rec’d
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by J2 on Feb 9, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
McNabb
I do have to say that I didn’t watch many Eagles games this year but of the highlights I watched on Sportcenter McNabb was throwing absolute BOMBS to Jackson and Macklin. He certainly still has the arm to bomb it farther than any of our QBs. He is better than an QB we’ve had since Jim Kelly so why not at least inquire into him. He’s a winner, a leader, and a great quarterback. Sign him to a three year contract and draft a QB next year or the year after. My question is what do we have to lose? We can’t get much worse with him!
Draft Picks?
Philly is going to ask for a boat-load of draft picks for McNabb. The Bills won’t be in position to compete immediately. So trading for McNabb during the downside of his career is a VERY VERY bad move, especially if the Bills are supposedly “building through the draft”. 2 to 3 years down the road, when the Bills are really ready to compete, they’d have to draft another QB to replace McNabb. What good would that be? Why not save our draft picks now, and maybe even use 1 of them for QB to develop?
To me, trading for McNabb now is as poor a move as any of the poor QB moves the Bills made previously.
Bills fan half way around the world
yet we’re moving to a defensive scheme that we’re not anywhere suited for. what makes you thinking we won’t give up 29 points a game and thigpen won’t go 1-10 again?
by quantumuprising on Feb 9, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
You’re getting into priorities there, though. If you’ve got a quarterback, you can turn around a franchise MUCH quicker than if you don’t. If we trade for Thigpen and he has a good year with some growth while the Bills go 3-13, what’s the issue? Our biggest problem is still solved.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
that's my point below
the issue to me is, we won 6 games with what we have at QB, a terrible OL/game plan/coordinator. Why pay with picks to go to 3-13? We can do that with what we have and still make strides elsewhere.
We have supposedly fixed the HC, OC, and most likely will improve the OL. We need personnel for the 3-4.
I am as adamant for using what we have as you are for a stop-gap. We both have good reasons. Both are options.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
You wouldn't be giving up high draft picks for a Thigpen, though
If Miami actually does trade him within the division, it’s unlikely to cost the Bills more than a 5th or 6th rounder….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
at this point
I think we need all the picks we can get. He was a 7th rounder in ’07 and Miami traded a 5th for him in ’09.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
If we're giving up a late round pick for a potential starting QB
You take that chance….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I wish someone would have thought like you do about JP Losman
After his 2006 season, where he threw 19 TDs, 14 INTS and 62.5 comp % and rated 11th best passer in NFL. It would have been awesome if someone traded the Bills for that bum after seeing his one season.
Just saying, don’t let 1 year fool you. Don’t overthink QBs. Alot of the QBs who are good were great in college too. (with some exceptions, of course, but not a ton)
by StroudFanClub on Feb 9, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not letting one year fool me
I’m hoping my team can find a competent QB. For a late round pick, you need to take the chance.
I don’t think Thigpen is the future of this franchise, but aren’t we looking for a short term fix, in addition to the future?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Ok, I can do anyone on this list for the next 2-3 years
as long as we also draft a QB within the first 40 picks of either the 2010 or 2011 draft. so I’d pick of this list the best player to teach a first round QB.
The next 2-3 years are gonna be brutal anyway.
As long as your not saying Thigpen’s the answer, I’m cool with that.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 9, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's the thing
None of these guys are long term solutions. Well, I suppose Thigpen could be if he somehow morphs into a complete and utter surprise to become a top QB.
I don’t think anybody is saying any of these guys are the answer. At least I hope they aren’t. I wouldn’t mind a Thigpen trade simply because he’s the only one on the list that could still become a much better player. If we’re going to add a veteran, why not go for one that might actually develop his abilities further?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I, for the record, am certainly not advocating any of these guys as more than 1-2 season solutions. Maybe 3 in the case of McNabb.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, then I'm fine with trading a late rounder for Thigpen
or anyone else on this list. As long as: A.) It doesn’t cost us a good draft pick and B.) It doesn’t interrupt somehow the development of the 1st round QB I think we should be groomng…..
by StroudFanClub on Feb 9, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
And that's what I like about Thigpen too
Although I’m worried about his decision making and physical skills a little bit….
Plus, how are we going to get him? Would Miami actually trade him within the division?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Do you think
Parcells would rather keep Thigpen or Pennington as the backup for Henne?
As good an idea as Thigpen might be for the Bills, I don’t think it is likely at all.
Bills fan half way around the world
Why wouldn’t Parcells keep Pennington? Pennington gives Miami a greater chance to win in a tough spot than Thigpen. Pennington might end up a lot of different places though.
Because Pennington just had another shoulder surgery?
Bills fan half way around the world
Garrard
He turns 32 in a week. He’s as good as he’s ever going to be. There isn’t going to be some Matt Schaub-like improvement out of him.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I would rather they sign Garrard than Pennington. That’s just how I roll.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I probably would too
But Garrard isn’t a free agent….and you mentioned his potential Matt Schaub-like improvement, which I don’t see happening at this point in his career….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Maybe he channels his inner Kerry Collins?
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 10, 2010 7:08 AM EST up reply actions
Thigpen
Of all the options available, I consider Thigpen to be our best option, particularly so given his connection with Gailey. I cannot bring myself to think positively about Michael Vick, and I would not like to trade away significant draft choices for McNabb. I believe Thigpen is capable of being the long-term leader we need at the position and would free us from having to pick up a QB in the draft. Brohm and Fitzpatrick could be the back-ups. Chad Pennington would be my second choice, but this would require our selecting a QB in the mid-rounds this year, or first round next year (Locker, Mallett).
exactly
build up our offensive line and defensive line this year, and hope to get locker or even mallett in next years draft.
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No way that Parcells would be open to trade talks
and if he is, his demands would be too high. No way he helps a team in the AFC East
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
why? we still don’t know that either of those quarterbacks are any good!
by quantumuprising on Feb 9, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Cost benefit points to Thigpen. McNabb is the best QB but will cost us a lot. Vick could also be good, but there’s baggage. Pennington is just a signing away, but he’s no sure thing with his injury, though his leadership would be invaluable.
I’d like to see the Bills work a deal for Thigpen, and draft a QB for the future.
I wouldn't waste a draft pick (any round)
on any of these. It’s like asking a patient, “Do you want the amputation at the ankle, the knee, or the hip?” Any choice will leave you handicapped.
You said it best,
a dry off-season for quarterback talent
If we’re going to rebuild, save the draft picks for the philosophy being expoused by Nix. I’d rather keep the 3 we have (well maybe not Fitz) and put one of them behind a solid OL while drafting a QB for down the road. Any of those mentioned would be dupster diving into the “has bin”.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
by fansince60 on Feb 9, 2010 9:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This idea that the Bills can simply ignore QB for a year while building up the rest of their team is, to me, completely absurd. You have to have a quarterback, even if it’s a veteran stop-gap.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
not absurd
if you subscribe(and I know you don’t) to the fact that a lot of the QB ineffectiveness was due in part to the OL problems, and “no huddle” brain-child, and an OC thrown into the mix the week before the season started.
With a solid OL and a solid offensive game-plan, we can be effective in 2010. None of the options mentioned offer a cost/reward ratio high enough to make sense IMO. If we’re going to “settle” why pay to do it?
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
I actually do subscribe to the idea that bad OL problems and lack of a consistent play-caller contributed to the QB issues. I just don’t think that a good OL and a good play-caller with a good system will fix any of our current quarterbacks.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Tarvaris Jackson
As much as I would like to see McNabb in a Bills uniform, with all of our needs, it just doesnt make sense to give up what it would take to aquire him. I thought Tarvaris Jackson was a free agent this year? Would he be a solid option, I though he had decent numbers?
by Kelly to Reed Touchdown!! on Feb 9, 2010 9:44 AM EST reply actions
RFA
Still I agree with you that for the right price, he’s be a decent option to consider. I highly doubt that the Vikings would move him even if Brett comes back for one last houra! Jackson could be their future, learning 2 years behind the master, not unlike Aaron Roger’s 3 years of apprenticeship.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
I, on the other hand, don’t think Jackson is worth considering. Not insofar as being willing to contemplate him as our starting quarterback next year, at least.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Good Post Brian, here's my take
McNabb: I agree that he’s the premier option here even though I think he’s too much of a system QB. Even if Philly were willing to deal him, I think the panda bear will pounce on him. There’s no way that Holmgren doesn’t overpay in a bidding war. McNabb is clearly one of the best West Coast guys out there and he still has a few good years left in him.
David Garrard: We’ve already established that Jax were dumb around the edges – how the hell can you call out your QB like that without serious fall-out? Both the owner as well as the HC, c’mon man. It would not surprize me at all if they were to draft Tebow (for ticket sales) and then take a flyer on a guy like garcia or Vick (both mobile guys while waiting for King Tebow to be crowned). OBD would be very smart to pick-up the phone and start the dialogue, looking at possible player swap options. Given we are going to a 3-4 and they still run a 4-3, there could be a very happy medium here…
Pennington: I’ve been saying for a while that he could be a great stop-gap for 1-2 years (assuming he remains healthy). He is extremely smart with the football and can get the job done (even with a noodle arm). He seems to embrace his role as the veteran mentor and that’s exactly what we need for the next 2 years. If we were to get him, I’d love to see us get a QB in the draft anyways just to get the mentoring started as soon as possible.
Thigpen: I like the idea I just can’t see Parcells giving his rival a chance? There’s no way he’d consider trading with us, why would he? Even if he thinks Thigpen is a so-so player, why take the chance to reunite him with Gailey, the coach that seems to get the best out of him? No way that this option ever happens IMO
Vick: I keep wavering back and forth on this option. He’s one hell of an athlete and from what I’ve read about Chan Gailey, if there’s one guy that can get the most out of a Vick option it is Gailey – so I guess I’d be in. I certainly would not spend anything higher than a 5th to get him.
A few other names worth discussing: David Carr, Chris Redman, Rex Grossman, Patrick Ramsey
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
by keysh67 on Feb 9, 2010 9:47 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
A few other names worth discussing: David Carr, Chris Redman, Rex Grossman, Patrick Ramsey
Do you want to discuss which one is most likely to be working for UPS by next Christmas?
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by jj24 on Feb 9, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes. Oh my goodness. We will be in VERY VERY BAD TERRITORY if we’re considering any of those guys as starting options. Holy Lord.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
redman has pretty good numbers in admittedly few games over the past 3 years.
only 6 starts, but he has looked like he has some clue of what’s going, that’s not nothing…his career QB rating is higher than Vick or Thigpen.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Bringing them in to compete with either Edwards or Fitz and Brohm. May the best QB win. What is wrong with that?
I would say that the first 5 options are way better but if any of them would fail to come true, why not consider these guys as options to compete with the guys we already have? I remember a few career backups that became really good at the end of their careers when they played in the right system, guys like Rich Gannon come to mind.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
I got dibs on Ramsey.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Calling Sexy Rexy.
At least we’ll see the deep ball!
I call it... The Avaslug!
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Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
But he went to Florida, how could he possibly be any good ?
/sarcasm
by syrbillsfan on Feb 9, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha i like it.
but the answer is he can’t. and it has nothing to do with the college he went to.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Well, let’s Analyze this: Carr would be on his back in the warehouse before ever getting the package to the truck……………………..Redman would never get the package to the house because neighborhood watch would have already called the cops and reported a suspicious stranger they dont recognize in the neighborhood, despite the familiar brown truck and uniform…………………..Grossman would have the package taken by Fed Ex on every other delivery, and Ramsey would end up also working for Fed EX, DHL, and USPS before he could ever really get used to his role.
by Caleb R on Feb 9, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Assuming Pennington can stay healthy? Seriously? What have you seen that leads you to believe that’s possible? Particularly behind the Bills o-line.
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I like Vick
but are the Bills willing to use 5mil+ on this guy for 2010? I think that’s the club option Philly has on him. Vick could possibly walk away after 1 season. Also, with Vick’s peculiar skills, he won’t be a good vet for young QBs to learn from. So, I’m not sure that’s a good option either.
Bills fan half way around the world
Also, with Vick’s peculiar skills, he won’t be a good vet for young QBs to learn from.
This is why i’m not too big on the Vick option. He would, however, be a great mentor for guys perennially in trouble. Who better to exemplify why and now how not to mess up and be sent to prison?
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 10, 2010 7:13 AM EST up reply actions
re Jax...
If they do take Tebow, then picking up Vick as a short-term starter makes some sense. They are both lefties and the Jags would only need one quality blindside tackle…
Would K.Williams for D.Garrard be a fair deal? Or maybe a three-way combo that sends K.Williams to Philly, M.Vick to Jax and D.Garrard to Buffalo? (If the Bills don’t have plans for R.Parrish, maybe he could be included somehow to avoid giving up any draft picks.)
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ~Yogi Berra
CMU
The quarterback for Buffalo is a guy named Dan LaFevour coming out of CMU. This kid will be a good one for a long time.
Yeah, the LeFevour thing needs to cool off. The guy isn’t necessarily a run-of-the-mill prospect, but he’s a mid-rounder with great production and a little bit of upside. Let’s not anoint him. His physical tools are underwhelming, and he’ll need a LOT of schooling.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Well, Brian, if you’re not all hot and sweaty about this LeFevour, I’ve got another kid for you who is guaranteed to be the best QB ever and who will resurrect our beloved Bills like Lazarus and walk on water… Tim Tebow… annnnd he’s already anointed!
/wry wit
Personally, I’d like us to get a stop gap and draft a QB next year… wouldn’t even mind a deal like the Jets to move up and get who we want.
Fatang Fatang.
by NeverendingOptimism on Feb 9, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
There's a difference
And it’s in potential. LeFevour is not even close to Tebow in potential. Tebow is physically stronger and has a stronger arm. And the difference in intangibles is not close.
Both a long-term projects that will need time to develop. LeFevour’s upside, however, is not the same as Tebow’s upside. LeFevour, at best, is a Hasselbeck-type quarterback that can be very, very good. Tebow, at best, is a Roethlisberger-type QB that can carry a team.
Both are high-risk types that need development time. Which brings us conveniently back to the post…. who’s available as the Bills 2010 QB?
I agree with you on Tebow. He is a leader. He will be a force someday. I was just playing on the polarity that he insights. It just seems that everyone’s got their QB crush this year. I would not mind Tebow in the least. The team would have to be built around him and it’s the perfect time for it.
Fatang Fatang.
by NeverendingOptimism on Feb 11, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
First, I LOVE Dan LeFevour.
But, why no mention of the Chargers backups. Billy Voleck can win in this league and would be a better stop -gap than any of those other guys.
Also Whitehurst would be better than Pennington.
I have no idea how anyone can reach the conclusion that Whitehurst is a better starting option than Pennington. The guy was very average in college and has attempted exactly zero (0) (none) (zilch) (nil) NFL passes. Meanwhile, Pennington is a proven leader and teacher, and a playoff-caliber quarterback.
Wow.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough.....
…. on the Whitehurst thing. I may have gotten carried away. I have heard good things since he got to San Diego.
But you totally ignored my Volek question
Not intentionally, I assure you. Just got lost in the wash. Volek’s interesting, but SD will need a backup. I don’t see him as a viable option because why would SD want to get rid of him? He’s under contract for 2011.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Because Thigpen isn’t scheduled to make $2.75M in 2010. And because Volek will be 34 in April.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
wouldn't that mean Volek is more available?
being past his prime and more expensive would make him less attractive to his current team wouldn’t it?
and to us, obviously…
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
I assumed you meant available via trade.
Thigpen is more available via trade, which was my above point. His age and salary notwithstanding, San Diego doesn’t have a good reason to release Volek, either – he’s a good backup to Rivers.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Thigpen is more available via trade
I guess I’m not so sure of that. Henne solidified the #1 spot. Pennington is ‘iffy’. Miami needs a backup. They have Thigpen. Why would they trade him and why replace him? He knows their system. If he’s as capable as everyone says, I’d think Bill would keep him. After all he traded to get him.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
Pat White.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
see
the feeling down here is that Pat White is not going to be an NFL QB. He serves the wildcat plan, but, beyond that, he is getting ripped for his size etc.. One assessment is he has the chance to be the first person in the NFL to be broken in two!
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
I disagree...
Pat White has a chance to be a dynamic NFL QB, not a true starting QB, but helpful in situations like a 3rd down back is…
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 9, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Haha, about Whitehurst? I don’t feel about him, because he quite literally has done nothing. Nothing good, nothing bad. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he was.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
He probably shouldn’t be completely discounted then. As unproven as he is, if Nix really likes him he may try to acquire him. If they’re going to bring in a young guy via trade, they could do worse I suppose. I vaguely remember him being highly regarded during his draft year.
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not discouting him as anything other than an option as the Buffalo Bills’ 2010 starting QB.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying it would be a good idea, but… If he’s a guy that Nix really likes, it could happen. The complete lack of experience makes it unlikely, but look at Aaron Rodgers (yes, I know, much better pedigree), he threw about 50 passes in three years of mop up work before being named the starter and that’s worked out pretty well so far.
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
To be clear, i’m not necessarily comparing Whitehurst to Rodgers, but a QB with minimal experience becoming a starter is not necessarily a recipe for disaster.
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Schaub filling in for Vick...
Except that Schaub did it for three years while Vick was in and out of (mostly in) the lineup. He proved to mor than just a capable fill-in.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 9, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Volek’s not a bad option.
Whitehurst… I’m not into the “find the next Tony Romo” philosophy. I’m into finding QB’s with bread winning pedegree. Teams luck into Tony Romo types. Tom Brady was drafted to be Bledsoe’s back-up, remember.
Teams that chase the low-draft choice QB as the next franchise guy aren’t going to be real successful. It reminds me about the people who said that Travis Brown was the next big find at QB.
With that in mind, I’d give Volek a try, but only Whitehurst if he came for free… as in UFA, and a low salary one at that.
DAVID CARR
A guy people forget about is David Carr. Here are some reasons to consider him
1. He’s not costing anything
2. He has decent size and decent arm strength for a QB, raw materials that Gailey & Cortez can work with
3. Even when he was getting sacked senseless in Houston he was still in positive figures TD v INT for some of the seasons
4. He’s rebuilt a lot of his confidence in NYG behind a decent OL
Between 2004 and 2006 he was sacked a ridiculous 158 times because Houston thought they could get away with lower ranked OTs and guards out of position. Yet he still threw for 41 TDs v 37 INTS and an average of 8,786yds. Its almost imaginable any QB performing better behind that joke of a line and I think with a R1 LT being draft we could get at least 3-4 years out of him and not panic in drafting a QB but wait for someone like Andrew Luck to become available
Carr is 30 and has thrown 45 passes over the last two years. I’d like a guy that’s, you know, played the position recently.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Already addressed this.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
... and Vick
or are scratch prison yard games included in Vicks totals?
Between 2004-06, Carr threw for over 1500yds more than Vick and had a better QB rating in each of those seasons. Even in 2009 his totals were better than Vick despite playing in fewer games and not even starting one, unlile Vick. Interestingly, since Carr has had a decent LT, his statistical performances have improved as well.
I find it interesting that everyone is so willing to debate the merits of David Carr and Michael Vick, two former No. 1 overall picks that, let’s face it, are available for very good reasons.
There are four names above Vick on the list, folks!!!
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
giving up draft picks
All bar Pennington would require giving up draft picks and as we are switching to a 3-4 even our 7th rounders are required as we lack depth across the board. When the Pats can start last round picks or undrafted original free agents like Guyton, we need to have Nix make every single pick count. There is no guarantee that Thigpen or Garrard would be an upgrade on Edwards or Brohm, whilst McNabb is the king of the 4th quarter comeback failure.
Only Pennington is free, and his arm is so week, the winds at the Ralph might mean some of his attempts go for negative yardage
by Kernowboy on Feb 9, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But just listen to what you’re saying. Youve obviously watched alot of football or you wouldnt be on these boards… You really want DAVID CARR as the starting QB of your football team. Just say it out loud… That helps with 50% of decisions. Say it out loud. It just doesnt sound good at all.
"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt
Love the McNabb idea if it could be worked out
I stated in a post a few weeks ago that my ideal situation would be to trade our #9 and Lynch to Philly for their 24th and McNabb. Hell, I might even thrown in one of the later round picks we got from them in the Peters deal just to land this guy.
Second on my list would be Pennington (big assumption on the health of that shoulder here). I say that because he knows the division, has been able to lead his teams to the playoffs in both places he’s been and he certainly seems like a smart QB who could impart wisdom to an up & comer like Brohm or a draft pick.
Vick – eh, not to sure about this one… he certainly wasn’t dazzling in terms of percentage numbers in ATL and quite honestly, nobody knows for sure if the skills he did possess are even still there. He really is an “unknown” commodity at this point.
Garrard – Buffalo needs to stay away from this guy. I live here in Jax and what Del Rio & Weaver have been alluding to is absolutely correct… he just seems to take one step forward and then two steps back consistently.
Thigpen – I honestly don’t know enough about him to render my own opinion, however, given what I have read…. we might as well stick with what we have…. which brings me to my next point…..
Given that Gailey has a track record of getting the most out of less, I would not be too upset if we cut Fitzy loose, gave Trent the reigns behind a revamped OL and a run first philosophy with the intent to give Brohm and perhaps a late round rookie a chance to further develop and absorb the system.
For the record, I am very much against drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds… IMO there are far too many trench issues to address in this draft and that’s where the game is won. Besides, a rookie would most likely struggle as badly as any one of the QB’s we have on the roster now
"The ball is like a cold to Clifford Franklin..... Clifford Franklin the only one catchin' it....Clifford Franklin the only one comin' down wit it!"....... Clifford Franklin
I don’t understand any arguments against Pennington. Sure, he’s not going to lead this team to many (any?) wins on those bad weather days and that is more than enough to know that Pennington isn’t leading the Bills deep into the playoffs, but does anybody really believe that Vick or Garrard or even McNabb is winning a Super Bowl in Buffalo? Does anybody think this team will be turned around that quickly?
He’s also injury prone. He’s only played a full 16 games twice in the last 4 or 5 years. But if he goes down halfway through the year, then isn’t that just the opportunity to see a young QB play that Bills fans will inevitably already be clamoring for?
I think that the best thing the Bills can do with the QB position is to draft as good of a prospect as they can in this or next draft and to get as functional of an offense as possible to put him in. I don’t think there is a quicker way to make our offense look like a real NFL offense than Pennington. Let’s not forget that Pennington was one of the best QBs in the league just a couple of years ago. He’s a timing and rythym QB who would be the perfect player for our young WRs to work with. He’s pretty decent at getting rid of the ball and he’s a reliable pocket QB for a young OL to block for. Is there a better available QB than Pennington for Nelson to learn how to find soft spots in a zone D? I think he’s the perfect fit if Buffalo is looking to rebuild instead of patch things up with a vet who Buffalo would try and start long term.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Feb 9, 2010 10:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I love Chad, I think the biggest knock against him is the “noodle arm” argument, but it’s not like his maximum throwing distance is 10 yards or something!
I call it... The Avaslug!
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub.
Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
My argument isn’t hard to understand. Pennington would be the first on the list of players put on IR next season. He’s just too old and beat up already, to take the beating that any quarterback will, that is brought in by the Bills.
Even if Buffalo drafts a LT in the first round? Why is it such a forgone conclusion that the Bills OL will stink again? No chance that Butler coming back doesn’t make a difference? Or that Andy Levitre in his 2nd season is a total stud? Other teams have turned around their OL in season and Buffalo has a lot of the pieces in place to be able to do that.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
RG/LT/RT are big concerns right now. I think it’s going ot be tough to turn the O-line around just becuase of our needs on defense and QB
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by J2 on Feb 9, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Really? If Buffalo drafts a LT in the first and stands pat with a line of Davis-Levitre-Hang-Incognito-Butler and Davis has a decent rookie year, isn’t that a decent OL? I think that’s a better line than at least 5 teams, maybe 10 or even 15 depending on health and how the rookie LT does.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Feb 9, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
first i’m not disagreeing with you – I think it can be done – but i’m not so sure it will be.
rookie LT if picked at 9 should be able to hold his own – yes he’ll make mistakes but better than anyone we had over there
lg c are good/solid
I honestly am not sure on how Incongnito can do at RG – is his upside that good?
plus – you’d better put Butler/Bell because no way Butler finishes the season.
so yes – barring injury – the O-line if we take a LT should look decent – but i’m not sure they are going to take a LT early because of the pressing needs at QB and on defense.
to me – BPA – which probably won’t be LT at 9 – we just need good ball players so it wouldn’t surprise me to see that position in flux again
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by J2 on Feb 9, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with J2’s assessment of the offensive line. To sum it up, it’s still a big question mark. There are too many ‘what if’s’ about this line. It is a line in transition. I don’t think that it is a good fit for Pennington. You also have to take into consideration what you’re giving up for Pennington (or whichever QB you want to insert here). IMO, I want to above all else, improve the O line. If a high quality linemen, who has a high potential to be a long term solution to our offensive problems is available, I say take him with the first pick. As far as QB goes, most everyone here knows that next season will be a tough one. 5, maybe 6 wins. From what I’ve read from other posts, that may even be optimistic. If a long term solution to the QB problem just isn’t out there right now, why not go with what we have? I know that I’m going to be, maybe the only person out there that feels that way, but honestly, it makes complete sense to me. There are just too many other things to address on this team. I think that all of our decisions should be made thinking long term.
Stick with the draft
Short of McNabb, your best case scenario with any of these guys is a wild-card loss. Given that McNabb would probably be prohibitively expensive, and given that we’re unlikely to run the system that most accentuates his strengths, I’d most like to see us get Bradford or Claussen in the first round and take it from there. If we make a move like that a Pennington in FA or even living with their bumps and bruises from game one is palatable to me.
I don’t think anyone really expects next year to be anything other than a transition season, so my money would be on really starting that transition, by bringing in as many young building blocks for the next winning Bills team as possible and playing them as often as possible. Every mediocre player we give a job to is just wasting time, and that’s what I see Garrard and Thigpen as.
Vick, on the other hand, is a 3rd down RB, and a washed up one at that.
I would be happy with any of the top four guys. McNabb, Garrard, and Penny all have lots of experience and have led their teams to the playoffs, while putting up good numbers. Thigpen has repoire with Chan, so that’s good. He also played well on a terrible team.
Vick(sigh), well I hate the dog thing, hands down. On top of that, he has (seemingly) no leadership ability. The argument that he’s a good athlete doesn’t hold water with me, because QB’s don’t have to be great athletes. Once he goes 7-24, in a game then people will be wishing we had a quarterback who can throw the ball accurately and consistently.
"You can put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car."
McNabb in Buffalo would be awesome… But Philly isnt trading him. If they did, they would be stupid. Plus I believe even if they were crazy enough to trade him, its going to take a pretty high pick to get him. And I dont think we’re in a position to trade away any picks.
Thigpen is my 2nd choice. And probably the most realistic. Hes only been in Miami for half a year roughly. Chances are were going to have to give up a pick for him. But not as high as McNabb. If we trade for Tyler then we’d have to give up probably a 3rd or 4th? Which I wouldnt mind because then we wont need to draft a QB.
Vick is the only other option I even like. All the others Garrard, Pennington, etc… I dont want.
Its gotta be McNabb and a rookie behind him (which might involve using more picks than we want) or Thigpen. Those are the only options that make sense to me.
"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt
Thigpen
I think that Thigpen would be very interesting. He has some decent skills. He was on a team that looked like they loved losing so who knows. If the price is right why not bring him in? Bring in anyone and everyone to find the best one we can…why not?
I think really you have two options to go after. Does Chan believe that Brohm could be groomed into a franchise QB? If so then we should try and get Pennington, he would only give us a yr, maybe two, but I think he would be a great teacher and would allow us to build an offense for Brohm in the mean time.
If you don’t think Brohm is the answer then you get Thigpen. You still keep Brohm, but Thigpen wouldn’t be teaching him anything. Also the mobility of Thigpen can make up for some of the O-line deficiencies.
Either way those are the options I like, I am a huge fan of McNabb, but I think it will just end up costing too much for draft picks.
Garrard I don’t think gets traded and even if they grab Tebow, I still think they keep him.
Brian is right about Vick being a stop-gap like Pennington, but I don’t see him being able to teach anything to anyone – also his physical abilities are completely different than most QB and the Bills would end up in this same problem for 2011 or 2012 (if we still have football those years…)
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
I am not in any way endorsing either of these guys
but Brady Quinn/ Derek Anderson? Quinn has the pedigree, Anderson has….a weird good year a while ago….
Just throwing their names out there.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
I’d be OK with Quinn. He’s played in way less games than Edwards and folks are already down on him. He got better as the year went along. I thought we should have traded for him early this past season, after he got benched for Anderson. He would have been worth a 5th rounder at that point. Good value IMO.
Anderson… I don’t know. I’d need to go back and see if Anderson’s struggle were because he isn’t that good, or if it was because Cleveland’s JV team was in a WR and TE.
Braylon “stonehands” Edwards had a good year one time too.
Doesn’t mean he’s a great WR.
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Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
McNabb & Garrard will likely cost at least a 2nd rounder – too much for a rebuilding team.
Thigpen – no more proven than anyone already on the roster.
Vick – baggage, questionable QB skills, eroding athleticism.
Pennington – mediocre (at best) arm strength, can’t stay healthy.
If they’re going to make a trade, Kevin Kolb should be the target. If they’re going to go the free agent route, they may as well sign Eric Crouch and run the wishbone.
Thigpen – no more proven than anyone already on the roster.
Trent Edwards has 24 career touchdowns in 32 games. Thigpen has 19 career touchdowns in 17 games. I think that puts him at least several steps ahead of Trent.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Better TD percentage, worse INT percentage, much worse completion percentage. Kind of a potato – po-tah-to situation.
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Sure. I’d at least be curious to see if it’s similar when Thigpen has as much experience as Edwards does (which still isn’t a ton). And in that situation, give me a guy that can score points for you. Thigpen has definitely proven he can do that.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
That plus even with the bad O-line around Buffalo they have more of a running game than they did in KC in 08.
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I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub.
Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Edwards has a couple offseasons under his belt as the starter too. I think that’s a pretty big difference than Thigpen’s situation of taking over mid season.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Edwards has only that many touchdowns even with TO for several games. Ouch.
Thigpen definitely is intriguing.
Thigpen definitely is intriguing.
Until you factor in giving a draft pick (s) or player to a hated AFC east rival and to one of the sharpest player evaluators around. That move would offset any upside Thigpen could offer.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
Sorry, but not making a move out of fear of giving an opponent something they want is bad business.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
how did Miami get Thigpen? I don’t recall. Just sayin’ I don’t think he’s worh the price.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
I think KC just let him go when they got Matt Cassel.
I call it... The Avaslug!
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub.
Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Nope. Miami traded a fifth-round pick for him.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
All right, I figured it was either just a straight pick up or a late pick.
I call it... The Avaslug!
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Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
tell that to the "don't let Schobel go to anyone in the AFC East" people
not making a move out of fear of giving an opponent something they want is bad business.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Schobel is a proven fantastic DE, it’s slightly different with Thigpen I think.
I call it... The Avaslug!
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub.
Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
not the point.....read Brian's quote again.....says nothing about the quality of the player
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Schobel has an established history with the Bills and the area. It would be akin (on some level) to Thurman going to Miami, which still irks me.
I wonder if Miami would want to trade for Owens? He loves it down there, afterall!
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
And yes, I know Parcells doesn’t love him some TO, and Owens will be free to find a home where the buffalo don’t roam.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
McNabb
As a Buffalonian who went to college in Philly, I have plenty of experience watching McNabb, and while there is definite talent, we don’t want him here. If he comes here, he will either be hurt by week 5 or everyone will be calling for the backup to step in. He had his good years, but now he is wildly inconsistent and injury prone.
Brian.
What are your thoughts on the Pistol Offense? I believe KC, under Gailey, was the only pro team to run this style. I think Nevada? did a few years ago, maybe still do. I find it interesting. It seems like it would be easier to read the D but still not be full shotgun. The RB would still be behind the QB and gets the ball on a handoff a step sooner, to make a cut and hit the hole. I personally like it.
… and another thing I thought while typing this… Say we didnt go after Thigpen. We draft Tebow. Would that be a good offense for him? He struggles under center. And this would give him the freedom of not being under center but still running that style of offense. Idk just kind of thinking out loud here…
I would rather have Thigpen over Tebow. But it would make sense for Tebow IMO.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah – anything new works for a while. I like New Orleans’ approach to offense. I call it the “toolbelt” offense. After the snap Brees just takes whatever tool he grabs and goes with it. They really defy gameplanning with the constant variety of playcalls. They are the anti-Colts / Pats as far as offensive style goes.
On a side note – when did Gregg Williams grow a brain? His defenses up until the Super Bowl would have been eaten alive by an offense like the Colts. I smell Sean Payton’s influence in the planning leading up to the Super Bowl.
David Carr is a chump!
How can you hold the all time record for consecutive completions and more than half of them resulting in a loss of yardage or no gain. He was a bust, plain and simple.
McNabb is option #1 by far, but only if we can get him for our 1st round pick. If we get 3 years of good productivity and stability at the QB position as a result then we got our money’s worth. We have too many holes to fill to trade more than one pick for him.
Garrard somehow always ends up in the top 10 of NFL fantasy QBs the last few years. That’s more than we can say of our current crop. He might make the most sense as far as what we might have to give up to get him. I would spend a 3rd or less to get him.
Thigpen is an interesting case. I went to that 54-31 shootout in KC a couple years ago, and despite a couple of INT’s he moved the ball up and down the field on us. He can’t help his defense was that bad. I would trade nothing more than a conditional 6th for him though.
Pennington I could accept even though it reaks of sloppy 2nds. He’s better than what we have now and could mentor a guy like Brohm.
Vick: NO THANKS!
I’m still on the Jason Campbell bandwagon. Since we’re talking about trading for QBs. He’d be better than any of these guys sans McNabb. I think he can be had for conditional 5th or less and would have a similar effect as getting Garrard would with considerably more upside.
I know I’m going to get killed for this, but Jevan Snead has to be an option in the 3rd round or later in the draft. He’s got similar tools to the guys at the top of the draft but was stuck forcing the ball to overrated/marginal talent at the skill positions. If you’re going to take a QB that late in the draft you might as well have a guy with a franchise QB skillset.
A first round pick for McNabb? Wow. You’d really give up that much for a 34 year old QB? I realize he’s good, but how are they going to improve the rest of the team?
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
why would we give up a first for a guy who will cost us 10 times any of our other QBs and be hurt even more? the guy can’t stay healthy, is 34 and can’t get the job done with a superstar line. all he will be able to do here is tuck the ball and take the sack. trent can do that without costing 10million a year.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I don’t know how injury prone he is, but you’d think they’d look at the franchise’s record with trading 1st round picks for QBs by now. Bledsoe had that one good year, that was about it. And how’d that Rob Johnson deal work out?
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Does Thigpen have a cannon for an arm?
Or at least strong enough for Buffalo winters?
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stronger than pennington
who i can’t believe is even a consideration. did we not play the guy year after year and watch his mediocrity stink up the whole field? we have QBs that can throw 3-5 yard passes. we could dink and dunk all day already if only we had a line.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
If he was mediocre that would be a valid argument. He’s not a great gunslinger and he is injured way to easily recently, but he’s not mediocre.
I call it... The Avaslug!
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub.
Syracuse Basketball 2010: Making Hoya's cry.
by UZ on Feb 9, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
so he lacks arm strength
and is hurt all the time. that is definately a far stretch from our current roster…. oh wait. no it isn’t.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
again...
he is not a great gunslinger and is injured easily? what about that says “above average” or “great”? i think by definition a guy who could just as easily lose you the game as win you the game is average, or “MEDIOCRE”. i have a hard time giving money to a liability. i mean, why pay a guy to ride the pine after he gets hurt week one? he isn’t Brady. never was. never will or would or could be.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
The Jets let Pennington go when he was in his prime (and injured) for Favre. He’s now past his prime (and coming off an injury). I really really REALLY dislike the thought of Pennington here.
Again, why bring a guy in for 1 season? Look what Owens may have done to Johnson and (late in the year) Hardy. Owens is likely gone and those guys aren’t any further along with game-day experience than they were as rookies.
If the team is going to invest in a player, i’d like it to be more than a stop-gap situation. I’d rather they didn’t grab someone who might, at best limp them along to 8-8, and have them suffer a lower draft pick. Stick with the suck that needs to be replaced until you can draft a guy to try and change luck.
I’d rather see the team try and grab Brady Quinn. I know he’s been a HUGE disappointment for the Browns, but well, it is the Browns…who do have the Bills’ number.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Look what Owens may have done to Johnson and (late in the year) Hardy. Owens is likely gone and those guys aren’t any further along with game-day experience than they were as rookies.
sorry – but save for playing in the games – i’m sure that both Johnson and Hardy learned a great deal from TO. Whether it be in the classroom, on the field or as far as work ethic is concerned.
there’s a reason why guys sit back and learn from good/great/HOF veterans – i’m positive they learned a ton. This year they can show that
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by J2 on Feb 9, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that, but it doesn’t change how I feel about Chad Pennington. I don’t dislike him, far from it. I simply dislike him as an option at QB for the Bills.
I’d rather they not go to a dry well and picking through the dirty laundry when they need results. I’d rather they find a guy, build a team around him, and stick with him.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 9, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Again, why bring a guy in for 1 season?
Because Buffalo’s best chance at a Super Bowl is finding a guy through the draft. Pennington is the best QB out there to pair with a drafted player. He’s a great teacher and leader. And his abilities perfectly fit an offense built to break in a young QB.
I’d much rather have a QB for one or two seasons than bring in some mediocre failure and waste three years debating whether or not he’s the real deal.
And signing a QB to groom to a player who isn’t on the roster yet isn’t the same thing as signing a WR to play in front of a pair of 2nd year players.
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did we not play the guy year after year and watch his mediocrity stink up the whole field?
no, we didn’t. we watched him complete near 70% of his passes and have an 87 QB rating against us.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
70% of passes
under 5 yards. didn’t Nix and Gailey say you need a strong armed QB to play in Buffalo? so you think they are like “hmmm… Chad Pennington. Now there is a lazer rocket arm….” i sure hope not. that would bring about much more cynicism and angst then i currently have from all the previous debocles. in fact, i recall comments about not seeking big name free agents either. so hard to believe that we would go in the direction of any of these guys, save Vick. who is whatever. at least he can throw. all i need is someone to hand off. let the line do the rest.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
70% of passes under 5 yards
…no 70% of passes overall, for over 200 yards a game.
so you think they are like "hmmm… Chad Pennington. Now there is a lazer rocket arm…."
no that would be dumb… I think they might be like “hey look, a successful QB we can acquire for no draft picks who can hold the fort until our QB of the future is ready.”
all i need is someone to hand off. let the line do the rest.
You’re right. With our offensive line, we should be fine.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
the point was
that our picks should be used on the line, and with an effective line, even Edwards may be capable of consistency and being a guy who can “hold down the fort.” i just don’t see the benefit of Pennington. i can appreciate your belief that he is successful, i just don’t agree that he is of any benefit on the Bills’ roster. he won’t be very effective laying on the ground every play. he is a pocket passer with limited mobility and range. why wouldn’t every one just key up on us like they would with any of our current signal callers?
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
that our picks should be used on the line, and with an effective line, even Edwards may be capable of consistency and being a guy who can "hold down the fort."
totally agree on the spend picks on the line part. I think Edwards is functionally dead as an NFL QB, and I’d rather grab the guy who I know is capable of holding down the fort.
he won’t be very effective laying on the ground every play.
nobody will be, that’s why you’re right that we need a LT. But Pennington is a smart guy who has always done a good job of getting the ball out quickly. I think he has a better chance of being competent behind a bad line than most anyone else, but that’s just opinion
why wouldn’t every one just key up on us like they would with any of our current signal callers?
They would, but again, Chad’s never been mobile and he’s been able to hit receivers his whole life. I trust him more than I trust most quarterbacks.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
The easiest player for a young line to block for is a pocket player who reliably gets the ball out on time. The worst thing you can do for a young OL is put a scrambler behind them. Our OL will be at it’s best when they know where the QB is.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Over the years
Pennington has played some very good football in Buffalo. He can have success here and I don’t think his arm strength would be a major problem. Sure, on a super windy day, he might struggle, but who wouldn’t?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
a real NFL calibre QB. the only kind i want. Give me a Philip Rivers or a Matt Ryan or even a Josh Freeman for that matter. give me the guy that is good enough straight outta my cracker jack box. seriously. we are picking at 9. there isn’t any chance we could find someone in this draft in the 1st or second round where we could position ourselves for that REAL superstar? i am putting faith in Nix to do that. i will accept no less. he said that is what he will do and i trust he is correct. since it is pretty much his decision after all. and because it’s what i would do.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I would give a 5th for Thigpen
and consider giving a 4th, I know I know, it is Miami we’re giving it to. But it is a mid round draft pick for what could be our starting quarterback. How much of a steal was it that we nabbed Trent in round 3 (when he was playing well, that is)?
I would really like to see Tyler Thigpen be a Buffalo Bill. The guy’s got some athleticism, Gailey called a Wildcat play where he CAUGHT a 37 yard touchdown pass.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Another Chance
Would it not be worth while to try “fixing” Trent? Maybe some new coaching could undo the conservative play that most of us attribute to Jauron. I like the guy and it just twists my stomach to think he could end up being a solid player on a different team.
by NebraskanBillsFanatic on Feb 9, 2010 12:32 PM EST reply actions
I guess I don't get the love for Tyler Thigpen?
- Went to college at Coastal Carolina University….ok, so he must not have been just good, not great, in High School.
- Not invited to the combine that year
- 7th round pick in 2007 draft, drafted by Minnesota….ok, so he didn’t exactly wow people before getting drafted. But to be fair, he set some school records in college…even though he was the first QB to play at CCU.
- Paced on waivers by Minnesota on 9/1/07, signed by Kansas City…ok, so Minnesota liked him, but still took the risk of placing him on waivers. (Please keep in mind Minnesota’s QB’s that year too: Tavaris Jackson, Brooks Bollinger & Drew Henson. Not exactly HOFers)
- Entered 2008 season as 3rd string, but saw time because both QBs ahead of him went on IR. Played very well, especially last 5 games when the offense was suited more to his skills. Good stats, especially with KC.
- After trade for Cassell, Thigpen traded to Miami for undisclosed pick.
So let’s recap:
Not recruited to a big time college, not invited to draft combine, picked in 7th round of draft, put on waivers by 1st team, lead 2nd team to 1-10 record (although, to his credit, he played really well), traded to 3rd team for undisclosed draft pick…..
One more thing:
Season ending shoulder injury in 2004. Placed on IR in 2007 after tearing his MCL.
And we should consider this guy as a starting QB for the Bills next year?
I mean, it’s possible he could turn out to be a diamond in the rough, but I’m not sure I can come to that conslusion from his background alone.
- Entered 2008 season as 3rd string, but saw time because both QBs ahead of him went on IR. Played very well, especially last 5 games when the offense was suited more to his skills. Good stats, especially with KC.
Ta-dah! that’s the reason. Also Brian really likes ‘Thiggy.’
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
I don’t know about really. He’s #4 on the list.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
and that took a lot of restraint.
I quote Kurupt, from the January 18th Article If you can’t get the Chin, settle for the Chan.
Brian also said he was infatuated with a Gailey/Thigpen pairing more than once, and even called him Thiggy once. It’s true, I read it!
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Thiggy comes from Arrowhead Pride.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just sick of trying to find the "diamond in the rough" guy.
It usually doesn’t work out. Just draft a QB in the first 40 picks for once (not named JP Losman). That seems like the best way.
Name a QB drafted 3rd round or worse that is consistently getting his team (the team that drafted him) to the playoffs. Not named Tom Brady, that is……..
(Tony Romo doesn’t count cause he wasn’t drafted, he was undrafted. :) )
by StroudFanClub on Feb 9, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
To clarify even more....I'm cool with bringing in anyone on this list, even Thigpen
As long as they also have a 1st round QB sitting behind him. The Bills won’t be good for at least 2-3 years anyway (by the time you address QB, Left Tackle, and fill all the holes created by switching to a new defense), so it really doesn’t matter who starts the next few years, as long as there is a blue chipper waiting and learning in the wings. let’s do it right for once. not a “quick fix”
by StroudFanClub on Feb 9, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Because he wasn't drafted in rounds 3 through the end of the draft.
He was undrafted. : ) Just a technicality of my quesion. But I still don’t think it lessens the thought any more. Don’t draft a QB in rounds 3 through the end of the draft. Pick a QB wihin the first 40 picks.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 9, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I always count the “being passed over again and again” when mated with some amount shown ability as a plus in my book. Look at our very own Fred Jackson, George Wilson, and the former Bill, Jabari Greer.
You don’t think being passed over is a motivation for these guys? Also, look at Pat Williams. Undrafted, cut as washed up by us, now pro bowl after pro bowl.
The list goes on and on. I can’t say Thigpen will be a revelation, but being mated with Gailey again might help Buffalo right the ship.
id
add Jason Campbell to the list. If he were available, especially if the Skins go ahead and take a QB with their 1st pick, I’d be willing to bring Campbell in for veteran to run Gailey’s offense as we let a young guy develop. They obviously have to solve QB, but what a conundrum. IF no rookie QB seems to be long-term answer, and you can’t pluck a legit veteran that could indeed lead you to the promise-land….then where does an organization turn to? Nothing more than a run first, stout defense, and hope you get good enough QB play (ala Mark Sanchez) to make it work
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
if we got Campbell
I wouldn’t take a QB early this year. He just turned 28 and I think he can do it, I’d rather build around him than make him a placehoolder.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
What about jeff Garcia?he always seems to find a way to win games.
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Feb 9, 2010 12:52 PM EST reply actions
He used to. What is he now, 45? How long can the guy last?
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by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 10, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
out of this list i like vick the best.
even if we draft someone this year or wait till next year. vick is the most mobile (means he wont have to worry about the line as much), will probably be the cheapest (in terms of trade, although i would figure tied with dolphins, id just rather give philly the 6th rd pick than the hated dolphins) and he has the most to prove (i.e chip on his shoulder to prove hes a starting nfl player). I dont think thigpen is a starter in this league, pennington and mcnabb are almost done. my opinion of course. and garrard isnt going anywhere. i think hes the most likely not to be moved this off season.
i think vick wfor a 3-4 year span while grooming a guy like tebow or locker or mallet or (you get where im going with this) is the most ideal way to go.
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Why are people saying McNaab is almost done?
He’s 33….Brady is 33 and Manning is 34.
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because i dont think mcnabb
brady, or manning last behind our line. well maybe manning cuz hes such a quick thinker.
also this is an interactive chart of mcnabbs most severe injuries
McNabb injuries
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 9, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
good chart, SS3k.
very interactive…:-)
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
by JPH on Feb 9, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
wow
link fail
The Real Interactive Chart
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 9, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
1-3 on this list make my tummy feel weird...
I like Thigpen and even Vick, b/c with them there is a chance that they would be great. Thigpen in the right system could succeed more than previously, and the new Vick with more to prove could do the same. However, McChoke, Garrard and Noodle arm are all mediocre QB’s which we know would give us mediocre results.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Thig
I would definitely give away a 3rd for Thigpen and consider a 2nd.
Can anyone name a valuable 3rd rounder we´ve had in the last 5 years (please don´t say Edwards)
What do you all think the Bills need to give in order to ger Kolb?? I´ll give a 2nd and a 3rd.
If the Bills don´t make a move in FA expect Clausen in red white and blue.
Just because the Bills haven't had much success with 3rd rounders
doesn’t mean they should contemplate giving up that or a 2nd rounder for Thigpen….if that’s what you are saying here….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
a 2nd A N D a 3rd?
really? didn’t he establish his questionable worth with a 5th or something? we need to be trading back in the second and third to get more picks. maybe even the first if that “dare to be great” situation presents itself. we could find out LT beyond 15 in this draft due to depth and could maybe get another third. Nix has shown ability to find guys in all rounds and stages of draft in the past. we need NFL caliber players and lots of em. we got a bunch of barely capable college level players who may never reach their potential of NFL mediocrity.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Yep
That´s exactly what I´m saying. We don´t need another mediocre CB or DE, I´ll rather take my chances on a guy that already proved he can play in the league.
Do you know what´s the percentage of 3rd round players that actually succed big time in the league?? Why not take a chance on a QB that we all know he can play??
Why not take a chance on a QB that we all know he can play??
Tyler Thigpen is a QB that we all know can play?
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Gibran Hamdan can’t play in the NFL. Thigpen can unquestionably play, he’s shown that.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Feb 9, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’d say he’s shown he may have some potential. He’s played reasonably well in a handful of games. After last season, we could have said pretty much the same thing about Edwards, so lets not go overboard on how good Thigpen is
by tm on Feb 9, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. No going overboard
but no shortchanging either. A reasonable expectation would be for Thigpen to compete for our starting job.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Feb 9, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Take the Bills O-line from Last Year and Put In...
1. Drew Brees – Watch him get crushed
2. Peyton Manning – Watch him lose his focus and throw picks all day
3. Tom Brady – Oh yeah he’s seeing pressure all around going to the turf
4. Brett Favre – yeps he definitely retiring after 1 game, no more questions about it
5. Philip Rivers – Ditto
Get my point? The greatest QBs would have failed last year playing for the Bills. So let’s hope the Bills fix their most pressing issue before they put all of their focus on a QB. Trust me, any QB who has enough time to process the field looks A LOT better. If Trent Edwards had the protection, he would have done much better.
Which leads me to think that the Bills maybe need a mobile QB for the next two years while they develop a young guy who doesn’t have to run for his life while the Oline is being rebuilt.
by GregFromNJ on Feb 9, 2010 2:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
The greatest QBs would have failed last year playing for the Bills.
Wow. If by “failed” you mean “won 10 games and made the playoffs,” then sure. Utter failures.
Take Jeff Saturday out of the equation and name one of Indy’s starting linemen. You might struggle to name 3 of New Orleans’.
Those teams have good offensive lines not because they’re overtly talented, but because they’re smart, and their unbelievable quarterbacks can mask their deficiencies.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 9, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Those teams have good offensive lines not because they’re overtly talented, but because they’re smart, and their unbelievable quarterbacks can mask their deficiencies.
plus they have been together a while and stayed healthy. Staying healthy and playing next to the same guy for 16 games a year is very important. Building that trust and sense of knowing where the other guys is going to be is huge.
Obviously injuries are things we can not control… but the healthy lines were the ones in the playoffs and Superbowl.
"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt
definately
need to stay healthy. line needs more time and probably talent. lot of our guys got playing experience last year, a big plus, but very little consistency. with that said, i feel any number of unknown, veteran, or even questionable quarterbacks could have success with continuity or improvement from the offensive line. including the ones currently on the roster. everyone will be starting over together in a new system, and that will be a challenge for all parties. that said, we do not even know what we do have. what we definately don’t have is a franchise quarterback by any stretch of the imagination. so that is need #1. followed by o line, then d line, then EVERY other defense position to transition to 34 (save free safety), WR, and a quick running back. i mean, that is a LOT of needs.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I’ll go out on a limb and say that the best QB’s in the league probably would struggle to get us to 10 wins, given that all of our other personnel stayed the same.
Just as many below are saying, all of these QB’s who are successful at least at had a reasonable amount of time to make their reads and throw the ball. In the Bills QB’s cases, a large part of the time they dropped back there was a defender ready to sack them by the time they finished a 3-5 step drop. You didn’t see that with Manning and Brees. They at least had a reasonable amount of time to make their reads.
Now I’m defitely not saying that the Bills should go into the season with the same QB’s, because they shouldn’t. They need to bring in quality competition for the position in the form of a FA/trade or high draft pick (or both). However, I don’t believe that they should they should spend a high draft pick on a QB. I believe you’ve gotta lay the foundation before you build the house, and that foundation lies up front with the big men for successful QB’s.
1st and 2nd round should be reserved for O-line and Defense this year. 3rd and up for QBs, or make a FA/trade attempt at Vick or Thigpen because that wouldn’t cost a lot and both of them can probably succeed with Gailey.
by GregFromNJ on Feb 9, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I pretty much agree with everything you said. The only thing that I would say is to not waste any pick on a QB, unless there is nothing else there (make it the last priority). Here’s why I say this: If a late round QB is not expected to be a long term solution, why waste the pick? We’ll probably get the same amount of production from some late round rookie as we would out of what we have now. Is there a FA QB out there? I would be all for that.
I believe the teams who play their cards right, knowing that Philly will almost certainly not pay Vick his $5M option and would release him if they can’t find a trading partner, will play the waiting game and he will go to the highest bidder. Not sure if Buffalo would win that battle though, but they paid TO $6.5 million when nobody else would so who knows? I wouldn’t be suprised if Pennington is released but I’m not high on him due to his weak arm.
by GregFromNJ on Feb 9, 2010 7:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just as stop gap QBs
What about Kerry Collins or Billy Volek?
Very good leadership and a year or two left in there arms.
They manage an offense fairly well also.
didn't we try
a kerry collins-like experiment with holcomb? we need a line people. QB success is dictated by protection. period.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
keep options open?
AS in give Trent Edwards another shot?
I wouldnt be opposed to that.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 9, 2010 6:06 PM EST reply actions
At least I won’t be in the boat alone when i’m sent to exile island.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 10, 2010 7:31 AM EST up reply actions
I’m curious as to what he could do behind a competent O-line with some decent offensive coaching. The tools that everyone liked for the past couple of years are still there.
by tm on Feb 10, 2010 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if the same could be thought and said about Losman? Nah, that’s crazy talk!
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: AFI - End Transmission
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 10, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'll throw a name out there
Dennis Dixon. I personally would like either him or Thiggy. Dennis Dixon was on the fast track to be a 1st round pick before blowing out his knee. He has a big arm, is very athletic, and a very smart QB. His college coach( I am drawing a blank on his name) use to alway priase his footbal IQ. He played well in the game he played in last year. I think it sounds like he fits the Gailey/Nix mold.
If he’s that good, why would Pittsburgh be willing to give him up at this point? They need a backup QB, especially with Ben’s tendency to hold the ball forever and take a ridiculous number of hits, and Dixon probably only costs the league minimum. In a couple of years when he’s a RFA and about to get expensive they might be willing to deal him, but there’s no reason for it now.
by tm on Feb 10, 2010 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
I never said he was the next coming of Steve Young
All I said was he has all of the physical tools that our briantrust is looking for. I think he has as high an upside of any guy we have spoken about here. The reason Pitt would get rid of him is they probably could get a 4th rounder for him at this point. They have Batch as there back up. If you can get a 4th rounder for your 3rd QB, you do it. For Buffalo, it make sense because of what I said above, plus he has 2 years experience in the NFL.
by The Irishman on Feb 10, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Trust me you guys dont get too excited if you land mcnabb
he’s better than what you have but he’s also not nearly the qb he was. misses a lot of easy passes, not as mobile as he used to be and VERY inconsistent.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I agree with the assessment that McNabb will cost too much
Pennington will be in a body back behind your line, I wouldn’t touch Vick with a 10 foot pole, Thigpen will leave you scratching your head wondering what the hell he’s trying to do, or where was that pass going to go. Garrard I was never high on as a quarterback, yeah he’s average at best.
I’m surprised I didn’t see Brodie Croyle’s name up there. Pioli will probably be shopping the hell out of him, he played a hell of a game in week one then Cassel took over……IMO Croyle’s the best QB in Kansas City right now and Pioli will be willing to ship him out fairly cheap so he never gets the chance to show up Cassel in KC. Gailey better get the line fixed or you’ll get Croyle killed, he is kind of Brittle like Pennington.
I know this is pretty much dead.......
But as a chiefs fan, I joined buffalo rumblings just to make this comment.
You are kidding yourself if you think Tyler Thigpen is the answer.
Just a dose of reality……our offense at the end of 2008 when thigpen was putting up numbers, was pretty much spread everything out, let thigpen scramble around a bit and then hit Tony G…..greatest tight end ever. Tony G inflated his stats and thats all I have to say, without that safety valve his touchdowns, completion percentage, and touchdown to interception rate drops dramatically, and I almost guarantee it.
Thigpen will NEVER be a conventional quarterback. Sure maybe in the spread simplified offense he can do some simple stuff and have some success, but I would say at least half of his success is directly related to Tony G in 08. He cannot make reads, and he is woefully inaccurate, normally throwing high and resulting in interceptions. Tony G made him look good, simple as that.
I am maybe exaggerating a bit, but the guy drove me absolutely bonkers with his inaccuracy, it just seemed like every single time he dropped back there was a chance of a pick. Even when he saw time with the dolphins this year, I tuned into the game when I heard he was going in, and completely called the game losing interception. Its classic Thigpen….there is a reason he only won one game……and no he wasn’t the whole problem, but he was part of it, and you want your quarterback to be a solution, not part of the problem.
I like buffalo, and I pray they stay away from thigpen….he won’t lead you anywhere. I like the guy, and if he succeeds I will eat crow, I just never see it happening. He is a less athletic, shorter, whiter, and less talented version of Vick….but he costs less and comes with less baggage.
thanks to both Chiefs fans for your thoughts
because I couldn’t agree more on steering clear of Thigpen. Brodie Croyle is an interesting idea as a guy to compete and maybe surprise. I really think Buffalo has to be aggressive in the draft for Bradford or Clausen or get Vick. Limited options…….
Any thoughts on why you guys like Croyle so much?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I love brodie beause......
1. his wife is hott…….
2. his wife is hott…….
3. ……
ok but for real, he has had a tough go of it, but the first game this last year against the ravens, he played pretty darn well. The love for croyle is he has all the physical tools to be a great qb. His arm buts matt cassells to shame….badly at time. It truly is a cannon, but really he had his shot with us, and the durability just doesn’t make him a long term answer. He might make it through a season, maybe even 2, but sooner or later ole Brokie will rear its head again and he will go down. Its a shame because he is a tough kid….he really is. However, I think a backup role is a perfect role for him, and honestly I don’t want to lose him because of that. Not many teams have an arm coming off the bench thats better than the one they have out there, and if he can get his decision making in check (still not very experienced) he can be a damn good qb if healthy.
Todd Haley went on record saying Brodie was an integral part of us moving forward….and that was either the truth or posturing for a trade. Either way the front office has a plan for him, and if they trade him I bet its for pretty good value, because qb’s just aren’t cheap in this league.
Oh and did meantion Kelly Croyle……gazoooms! Put her on top of warpaint riding around and I’ll buy season tickets.
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