Why So Many QBs Bust
I started writing a response in a thread to something Kaisertown wrote, but it was getting too long. Basically, it's not rocket science folks, as I hope to show you in my ramblings to follow... Anyway, in that thread, Kaiser seemed to take offense with a post of mine, drawing a comparison of Mirer, Quinn, and possibly Clausen and rightfully so since I meant it in partial jest, but didn't "type" my sarcasm... So first, let me address my skepticism over Clausen, then we'll move on to the NFL as a whole...
Anyone who follows the February signing madness, even a little, knows that the Notre Dame recruiting class is always, at or near the top almost every year. Good school, great football tradition, enabling them to go after the top high school players around the country. But as any ND fan will admit, those recruiting classes have too often failed on the field for their football program as of late, but I would argue that, given a players positional ranking in high school, tends to inflate their value once NFL draft evaluations begin. Mirer, and Quinn, recruited as a couple of the top QBs in their high school classes, likewise highly rated coming into the pros... What happened??? Could it happen again to Clausen???
I'll give you my theory, but it's as simple as E=MC2......... :-)
First, let me say that I happen to agree with most on here, in that both Bradford, Clausen, and yes, even Tebow, SHOULD be good NFL QBs.. While I put my hardhat on, and duck, let me also say that in my opinion, the one with the best chance of success, without knowing which team selects them, is Tebow...
Ha-Ha... You missed me!!!
Thunk!!!
Ouch!!!!
Wait.... Before you throw any more pixels through my screen, hear me out.... Let's for a minute, assume (yeah, I know), that Bradford is indeed selected by the Rams, currently sitting there with a head coach, obviously on the hot seat, and in a must win situation... As we look into our crystal ball, I see the demise of the Spag regime at year's end, followed by another questionable, and short, coaching change.... Bradford soon looks, and feels like a duck out of water, lost confidence, and his short history of being constantly battered by opposing defenses.... In his 4th year, he either rides the bench, or is traded to the Raiders where his career ends after only five yrs in the NFL....
In that same draft however, Tim Tebow is drafted by the Steelers, in the 3rd rd... A team with a solid coaching staff, and real direction... In his second year, with Big Ben doing time for his indiscretions, Tebow takes the helm as starter... In his first year, some still doubt his abilities as an NFL QB, but coach Tomlin, knowing the hard work Tebow has put in, assures him, he's the man in Pittsburgh.... By his 3rd year, Tebow has learned to take his team by the scruff of the neck, and lead them back into the playoffs...
I know... Where did I pull that out of??? But ya gotta admit, I can make up a story huh??? I hope however, you also see the difference.. Both young men, talented, intelligent, ALL the tools... The one however, even more suited initially to play QB in the NFL, is drafted by a team that is almost always in flux.. Always changing, and never allowing that promising QB to develop in any single system... The other, went to a team dedicated to their own players, developing them, keeping them. Adjusting the team to the players, not the player to the team....
Moral of the story..... Especially first round QBs, I don't think anyone can argue, have an inflated value going into the NFL draft because of the very position they play... I would ask, what 2 things do most teams drafting at the top end of the draft have in common????
Coaching and/or FO upheaval.... And they usually need a new QB... Remember JP??? Yeah, I know... All of us do... Should he have succeeded in the NFL??? I would argue yes, he SHOULD have.... But after 4 years of upheaval, and trying to make him fit into a system, heck, and a different one every year, is what ruined him... Not the other way around folks.... Remember me pointing to Mirer and Quinn??? Besides ND, what did they have in common??? How 'bout Trent Edwards??? Uhg... Square peg... Hole round... Get a bigger hammer...
I hope that TEs career can be salvaged by the Chix regime.. I think year 4 is the make or break time.... Kaiser brought up Stafford... Will he make it??? My answer has to be a big IF.... Not only the coaching carousels in the league, but the square peg scenario that so many of these guys face in their careers... Look at the successful QBs... The Mannings, etc.... What do they have in common??? Consistency, though arguably, Peyton may have succeeded regardless, I somehow doubt that.....
So now, back to the question I posted above, to myself... Why did I say Tebow has a better chance of success than either Bradford or Clausen??? Simple, if I was paying attention to myself.... Tebow will not be drafted at the top of the draft, by a team in flux, and desperate for a QB to fit into their round hole.... Tebow stands a better chance of being drafted by a team with consistency in the FO, and coaching staff, such as the example I gave....
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Staffy
Stafford will succeed I think. At least in the next 5 years. He has a Top 5 WR and he has the heart to play QB in this league (N.B. dislocated shoulder on a TD drive, that was inspiring) I want a QB like that to lead the Bills
I think he SHOULD....
but as I point out in the OP… Will he get the chance to? As of now, it doesn’t matter who he’s throwing to, because like the situation in B’lo, he can’t throw to them if he’s lying on his back. How safe is Schwartz? Can Linehan develop him into the QB he CAN be???
Exactly. But they seem to be headed in the right direction for the most part. And we do kind of as well with Levitre and Wood and hopefully a tackle this year in the draft as well
On an injury like the getting to the point where you can walk is over half the battle. If the doctors say that he’s ahead of schedual (which is what has been reported) and that he should be ready for the pre-season, I’ll take their word for it. Or at least keep my fingers crossed.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 15, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a brother...
that had that same break in high school… about 7 months later, he went through Marine Corps training… Yeah, Wood can hopefully do it too with a much better training, and medical staff than he had…
I agree with alot of what you have said. I personally believe that you are forgetting a key element of what type of teams these “high profile” QB’s are going to. You gotta remember that most of the high round/high value guys are going to the worst teams in the league that usually feature the worst offensive lines in the league. Now, not every QB that goes to said teams turn out bad. The colts were terrible when Peyton got there. But he’s a once in a lifetime player. But the majority of these QB’s are thrown into the fire too quickly and that seems to be a major problem.
Your right....
and I meant to include offensive line woes in the write (see my comment to billsfan26 above), but it was already getting awfully long…
But as in TE,and even JPs QB problems, I think we can all agree that the O-line played a major part in their failures so far… Is it any wonder we often refer to the Bills QBs of the last few years as “checkdown” QBs???
true. but
trent also missed a lot of guys downfield. thats why he got pulled from the tennessee game…
there are QBs who have to check down, and then there are checkdown QBs… and honestly all that being careful with the ball doesn’t apply either.
It's hard for me to admit...
Especially with all the wild “Ifs” that you article entails. But the reasoning of your argument is actually pretty sound. It’s also why I think that Bradford wont make it as and NFL QB, and that Claussen only has a 50/50 chance. Tebow has a better chance than both if he gets drafted in a good system,but even that isn’t a garantee. Rec’d.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 15, 2010 2:33 PM EDT reply actions
In place of Tebow..
I could have used any number of McCoy, Snead, Lefevour, or Robinson as an example, though arguably, Tebow has better drive to succeed than those..
Thats basicly what I ment as well. A QB in a better development situation will have more success threwout his career than a QB that is tosed into a volotyle situation.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 15, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys summed up my very feelings on this subject. Rec’d (to CINGA)
Stafford and Clausen, to me, feel more like David Carr than say Carson Palmer. That’s not to say they aren’t talented, just that without the proper acclimation period, they’re going to bust. I see Stafford in St. Louis playing out like Alex Smith in San Fran. Hopefully, like Smith, after years of upheaval he still has some redeemable skills left. Also, both Smith and Stafford were “system” quarterbacks in college. It still seems strange that the Big 12 is full of spread offenses now, used to be “4 yds and a cloud of dust” football down there :)
I also wonder why Stafford is pictured as someone who will fit in any offense where Tebow is looked at as a square peg. I know Tebow’s motion is bad, and Stafford’s is better but they both were not required to read defenses. Claussen, I guess, was required to, although I think most of what people thought as reads and progressions were handed to him with the play from Weiss.
As far as your choice of team, Pittsburgh was a good example. They played Big Ben early, but required little of him and he’s been good enough for them. Also, the offense has been consistent his whole time there. Good recipe for QB success. (I think their infatuation with passing got them in trouble last year and screwed up their formula, but they should bounce back this year)
Tebow has better drive to succeed than those..
How can you possibly know that? That’s the biggest thing that bugs me about Tebow supporters – just because ESPN is constantly fawning all over him doesn’t mean that those other guys won’t work just as hard as him to become successful NFL players. Do you really think someone like McCoy, for example, could have been a four year starter on a perennial national championship contender without working his ass off?
by tm on Mar 16, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm the last person....
in the world who could be accused of viewing Tebow through biased eyes. In fact, as a rabid Ga Bulldogs fan, I’m totally biased AGAINST Tebow! :-)…. That said however, 4 years of watching him have his way in college, there can be no denying his drive and shear will to win… At times it even appeared that he literally forced his team to follow him… That is the drive I’m talking about….
As for McCoy.. I’ve said before, and got bashed for it, I think McCoy can be a good NFL QB as well on the right team… Probably more than any of the others however, he needs a team to be built FOR his talents, emphasizing even more my round hole scenario… Could he succeed in B’lo??? I think so… If the system fits his skill set…
Just to point out, I was trying to be somewhat sarcastic too. That’s why I went with the Georgia prospects and Stafford.
I would argue that, given a players positional ranking in high school, tends to inflate their value once NFL draft evaluations begin
But that’s not just true of ND players. Tim Tebow was Rivals’ 3rd highest rated QB coming out of high school and had Florida and Alabama fighting for him. USC QBs are always top recruits. Before Stafford even went to Georgia, Mel Kiper said he’d be a future number one overall pick in the NFL. Doesn’t mean he was an overrated NFL prospect. Nobody was talking up Clausen (except maybe me) before the season started.
Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Mark Sanchez, Matt Stafford, Ryan Mallett, Chad Henne and even Trent Edwards were all 5 star recruits. Would you claim that any of them were/are overrated prospects because of that?
And how come other ND prospects don’t bust in the NFL then? Why didn’t John Carlson and Ryan Harris, both 2003 high school all americans and college recruits in the same class as Quinn, dissapoint in the NFL? Carlson was even a McDonald’s all american as a basketball player. Why weren’t they overhyped?
And Brady Quinn wasn’t really a top recruit at ND. He was number 10 on Rivals list of pro style QBs in 2003. Rivals seperates QBs into “pro style” and “dual threat”, so they didn’t have Quinn all that high.
What I don’t understand is, why can’t Buffalo draft a QB and then create a good situation for him? Why must the Bills, even with a new GM, be so incapable of putting a roster and coaching staff together that a young QB could grow in? The Bengals did it with Carson Palmer. The Falcons just turned things around overnight for Matt Ryan. Bill Parcells took a disaster of a team and now Chad Henne is in a great situation.
That Browns team went 10-6 in 2007 with Derek Anderson. They have a great OL, but overnight they managed to fall apart. Maybe if they had drafted a QB a year earlier, everything would have come together for them, instead of watching Derek Anderson crumble under the weight of his own poor decisions and INTs.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I know it's true for others...
as well as ND… I was simply using an example.. And to clarify, I didn’t mean that players are overhyped because of high school ranking, but that it did tend to help inflate their value, especially at the QB position. Largely, because of the importance of the position throughout their playing careers…
As for this part….
What I don’t understand is, why can’t Buffalo draft a QB and then create a good situation for him? Why must the Bills, even with a new GM, be so incapable of putting a roster and coaching staff together that a young QB could grow in?
I couldn’t agree more!!! Obviously the Mularkey, to DJ; Fairchild, to Turk, to AVP, to now, has been to the detriment of our QBs here in Buffalo… But while a jury of anxious Bills fans are still out on the new Sheriff in town, I hope we’re finally on the right path to do just that….
I referred to DJ as the QB career killer for a couple years now… Chan and Buddy seem to know better… Here’s to hoping they have a plan, and stick to it!!!
I'm admittedly on the Tebow-to-Buffalo bandwagon...
but I have a sick feeling that Pittsburgh is going to take him and shock many people. I just like that the guy has the best of everything you cannot teach a QB.
He knows how to play the position, and I believe all the mechanics can either be ironed out or looked beyond when he’s winning games. It’s going to happen: him as a starting QB, and as a winner. I just wonder where “it” will take place
I like to think of Tebow as the NFL’s Steve Jobs to Bill Gates.
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Song recommendation of the week: Ween - Bananas & Blow
"...BUT anyting is possible come draft DAY HOW many times we all say this is the guy we ae getting and BANGGGGG EVERYbody is in a state of SHOCK CAUSE frutty Pebles snack BANG bang CEREAL Coach just went the other way COCCOA PUFF nutty NUT craker Umpa Lumpa on all of the FANS Band wagon Kraken Dibede POP" - abayarde
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 15, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions
Yahoo! article
Brian put this up a few weeks ago, I remember reading it on Yahoo! too:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-directsnap022210&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
from the article....
Some good insight indeed!!!!
"If I knew that we were going to go through five offensive coordinators in his first five years, I never would have had us take Alex," York said. "It hasn’t been fair to him or to the team."
from the article...
Which is the basis of my argument of of waiting on drafting a QB until next yr. IMO we have 3 QB’s with potential but with carousel of OC, coaches, OL and all, how can you develop any QB. Unless you get a guy like a Manning or a coordinator that will adjust their system to the strengths of the players. Look how Flutie did so well here because the coach adjusted the game-plan to his strengths (remember the moving pocket). I always liked JP but I felt he wasn’t used right. One of his strengths was throwing on the run but they wanted him to stay in the pocket. But thats just my opinion…..

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