Aaron Maybin and the 3-4
by J2 on Mar 19, 2010 11:27 AM EDT
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PrintI wanted to get the communities view on Aaron Maybin and his transition to the 3-4. I'm not really sure what to make of the move for him because as far as I know he's never played OLB before.
Ever since high school, to my knowledge, he's had his hand on the ground playing DE in a 4-3. Now he has to stand up and diagnose plays differently.
Here are a few questions that I had:
1) Is it more difficult to diagnose a play as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB? It seems to me that when you're behind the LOS you have better vision on the play as it occurs.
The issue I see is this - if it's easier to diagnose a play from a 3-4 OLB - does that also mean that you have to diagnose the play faster because you are off the LOS and have to take extra steps to get to the play?
2) Since he seemed out of place as a 4-3 DE last year (by out of place I mean not being able to get a push on the LT or able to get any consistent pressure on a QB when he was in), does this move translate better for him?
My thought is if he needed to bulk up and fill out his frame more as a 4-3 DE - will being off the LOS where he can see what's happening quicker (if that is indeed accurate) make him more likely to have the right angle/leverage to be more productive as a OLB?
3) I assume his responsibilities in the run game would be similar to a 4-3 DE? In that I mean he's most likely going to go against the LT more often than not (provided he's still on the right side)?
4) How does this stunt his development? I know he's never played the position before - but is a 4-3 DE more difficult to play than a 3-4 OLB from a learning POV?
These are just a few questions that I had running around in my head regarding him. I know he looked out of position when he played last year and definately didn't look like he would have the impact we all hoped for.
I also please ask that you do NOT bring up that we should have drafted this guy or that guy and that it was a wasted pick. We all can do that for every player and I want this discussion to be meaningfull and not a redundant post about how we should have drafted X instead of Maybin.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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If you want to look at a dream come true scenario for Maybin, look at what Elvis Dumervil did for the Broncos last year when they converted him from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. If Maybin can come anywhere close to that production (in terms of pressuring the QB), we’ll all be singing his praises for quite some time. Maybin was too small to line up over 320+ lbs. OTs in the NFL. However, in the 3-4 a DE (Stroud or Edwards) will have the responsibility of taking on that OT and tying him up. When done successfully, it will free up Maybin to use his speed in making plays (hopefully in the opponent’s backfield). Maybin will have to deal with Guards who pull from the opposite side of the line and lead block on running plays. That will be his learning curve (he will need to recognize them coming immediately or else he’ll be on his butt when they collide). He has the speed and athleticism to avoid these “pulling” guards, but recognition will be key for him. I strongly believe Maybin will be huge for the Bills this season in this role. Without putting too big of expectations on him, think Cornelius Bennett in his early days with the Bills. The only main difference with that comparison is that Bennett benefitted from having Bruce Smith on the opposite side. Bruce was a freak of nature for the 3-4.
PS – Please don’t go nuts over the Maybin vs. Bennett comparisons, I’m simply using someone from Bills history to compare (for a visual perspective). I would have said Talley, but he often lined up over the TE and Maybin may do that… but I think his value is more in using his speed to disrupt plays in the backfield.
DC Chocolate City!
I would say Maybin will start to feel comfortable and start producing in 2011. It’ll take time and experience to learn and develop here. It could take longer seeing as how there currently is no one on the roster that played OLB in the 3-4 on the team that can teach him. I hope that Edwards takes him under his wing and shows him how to be like joey porter. (minus the d- bagerry)
My guess is that Maybin will ultimately be helped by the move. If nothing else, he’s going to see a lot more backs and tight ends than he ever did as a DE, and those are matchups he should win (hopefully). It actually drives kind of crazy how often offenses ask their 200 pound backs to block a 250 pound linebacker, but thats kind of the nature of the alignment. Anytime you switch from working against the offense’s best lineman to a tight end (maybe a second tight end), you should be more productive.
I am worried about his ability in the running game. On the plus side, he’ll be a lot more protected (as DJC alluded to above). On the down side, he really is going to need some solid coaching. He doesn’t have the lower body strength to anchor if a tackle (or maybe even that second tight end) gets into his body, and he’s going to have to learn how to use his long arms to protect himself, as he’ll be at a natural leverage disadvantage. Hopefully his quickness off the ball will really show up in a big way this year and help out.
The switch
I see it as a positive for Maybin. He looked awful last year trying to go one-on-one against OT’s. Hopefully, now he can go against more TE’s and RB’s, giving him a better chance to succeed. The thing I worry most about is his ability to drop back into coverage, since to me he just doesn’t look fluid or graceful out there. Hopefully he learns quickly and can be adequate there.
I’m not worried about his lack of experience having never played OLB. I’d guess that 90-95% of 3-4 OLB’s never played the position until the pros anyhow. Their mostl converted college DE’s, so that shouldn’t be a worry. Whether or not he’s athletic enough and capable of succeeding there is another question completely….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Mar 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great Point
I read that comment around here a lot “He’ll take time to learn the position” Your point is spot on – at least 95 % of these guys have never played 3-4 rush LB. Orakpo springs to mind recently, he seemed to adjust well enough to a 4-3 LB even which entails more coverage than a 3-4 rush LB !
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Maybin
3-4 or 4-3 i don’t care, he needs to be a productive member of team. He’s suppose to be fast ,so I think this 3-4 defense would benefit him. We’ll see I quess….
I'm a Big Maybin fan
I predict great things from him this year, as I think he will definitely suit playing in the 3-4. He has all the tools and attributes to succeed IMO, don’t forget as well that he is just a baby in NFL terms at just 21 years of age – This fact is all too easily forgotten by most fans!
by Kill_Bill on Mar 19, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I like Maybin in the 3-4
Maybins so young that I dont think we need to worry about stunting his growth.
I just think Maybin was never suited to a 4-3 coming out of college and couldnt get why Jauron took him.
His speed, edge rush, and quick first step will all be maximized by this switch.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
but his quick first step is only from a 3 point stance. standing up, as he will be as an OLB, he looks just average. All the talk about how ideally suited he is at 3-4 vs a 4-3 is funny since he played as a down lineman in college.
how is that in anyway funny?
a ton of OLBs in the NFL 3-4s were down linemen in college.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
If he’d had even a hint of production last season, then all this hype might be more reasonable. He couldn’t come in and make anything happen, playing in the position where he’s already experienced and had success. So now he’s going to play an entirely new position, with the added responsibility of diagnosing opposing offenses on the fly and making an instant choice of how to pursue the play. Forgive me if I’m just a little skeptical. True, many other players have made the transition, but just as many have come in and been effective 4-3 DE’s, he didn’t. I just haven’t seen anything out of Maybin that gives me confidence that he will somehow go from zero to hero. If you’ve seen something that I’ve missed, please share it with me.
Thanks for the question/Post!!!
We both can learn something. I doubt I can share anything substantial so I will just add the things that I do know. Maybin’s LB coach will be his same coach as last year. That in itself has to be huge for Aaron assuming they hit it off last year. The coach Sanders, is someone we would want to tutor young Aaron in this transition. Collectively, I would also assume that Nix, Edwards and Sanders combined believe very strongly in this move, especially with Edwards background in coaching linebackers. Bottome line for what I can offer is that Aaron Maybin is in very good hands, this season and we should all be excited to see so much more from him.
Now, the linebackers we do have on the roster, although inexperienced in the 3-4 have been with us for a few years and this transition shouldn’t be as difficult to pick up. Still there will be learning curves and if they stay healthy even significant progression as the season wears on.
Finally, it is unfortunate that you need to preface such a request with the please do start out with the we should of drafted this guy instead of this guy stuff. I blame the bandwagon jumpers of the late 80’s early 90’s. It’s a generational thing, mock drafts, Maden video games, I told you first, etc… This is a postive way to educate everyone on the realism of the game. You had an awesome answer right at the top followed by some good add in’s. You used this site to help us all. Rec’d
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
Thanks – I really want people to use this community to ask questions that they might not nkow the answer to without being blasted as a moron.
Maybe we should start a weekly/monthly stupid questions post?
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Mar 20, 2010 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I really want people to use this community to ask questions that they might not nkow the answer to without being blasted as a moron
I meant feel that they would be blasted. Not everyone does it – this is a great place to ask questions that you may not know the answer to
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Mar 20, 2010 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybin probowl?
dumerville did it in denver and maybin is bigger stronger and a better athlete so we will see i’ll say between 10-13 sacks for next year. the real key will be the other schobel if he can produce the same on the other side with this secondary could be dangerous but that all depends on stopping the run and forcing people to pass. we will see
by Eric L Ellinger on Mar 21, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions
I don’t see why not – it’s a longer shot than we might want it to be. But our front 3 can be solid if we get a great NT in the draft. Our inside linebackers are pretty much set – we really just need OLBs and the NT.
If Maybin can flash any sort of potential and Schobel a) comes back and b) translates to a OLB well – we might be surprising on defense.
With that being said – I have no idea how our D-Coordinator will do. Rex Ryan has that Jets D beleiving – I"m not sure Edwards can a) scheme and be aggressive well enough and b) make his players beleive.
If for nothing else our secondary is in good shape as well as our DE’s for the 3-4 with 2 solid IlBs. We are really missing a “force” in that front 7 though. Be nice if Maybin could translate or become that guy
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Mar 21, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t believe Maybin is stronger than Elvis. They are equal in weight, but Elvis is 5 inches shorter. That to me means Elvis is more powerful. In fact, Elvis benched 30 reps at the combine, while Maybin only pushed 22.
Aaron needs to develop strength. He’s tall and lengthy, not powerful. That was the book on him coming out of college, to improve his overall strength. And it his immediate goal now in his first off season with the Bills strength and conditioning coaches. He and Shawn Nelson may be the biggest beneficiaries of the new heavy weight lifting system favored by the new staff. And if they each get bigger, they could develop into something.
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