Franchise QB not easy to find in 2010
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:05 AM EDT
in 2010 NFL Draft
262 comments
We're just a day or two shy of being exactly one month away from the 2010 NFL Draft, which will kick off Thursday evening, April 22. When the draft gets underway, we know that the Buffalo Bills - barring an unexpected personnel move to take care of one of their biggest issues - will have four critical need areas to address. Those positions are well-known to this fan base: left tackle, nose tackle, outside linebacker (a.k.a. pass rusher) and quarterback.
They say that the golden rule of the NFL Draft is that unless you already employ a "franchise quarterback," you don't pass on a guy that could become that type of player. Picking at No. 9 overall, it's not clear whether or not the Bills will even get the opportunity to make that critical decision. A weak quarterback class doesn't help matters. We do know one thing, however: this franchise isn't going to take big steps forward until that franchise quarterback is discovered. Whether or not that player is available via the draft this year is one of many interesting questions to ponder over the next month.
After the jump, I'm going to share my thoughts on the 2010 quarterback class. There are three players that I believe fit the "franchise quarterback" mold, though each prospect will need varying degrees of time and patience to reach that level. We'll also talk about every quarterback that I consider worthy of a draft pick - and in a weak year, that discussion won't take up a lot of your time.
I said that I thought three guys have a good chance to become quality NFL starters. These three names probably won't surprise you.
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma. For a rookie prospect that really doesn't come in with as much experience as NFL talent evaluators would like, Bradford's football IQ and accuracy are still considered borderline elite. He's got good character, a good work ethic, and is the type of guy that, at his peak, other NFL players will follow. But it'd be hard for any QB to be the face of the franchise dealing with injuries, and that's the big sticking point on Bradford. I wouldn't call him injury prone, but that shoulder injury of his is tricky, and even though he weighed in at 236 at the Combine, I'm not sure he's got the build to take a beating and get back up consistently at the NFL level. From an on-field standpoint, there's a lot to like about Bradford. Those question marks are legitimate, though - he's nothing close to resembling a slam dunk as a prospect. He's a top-of-the-first-round talent to be sure, though.
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame. If there's one quarterback available this year that I believe has the necessary experience and physical skill set to start from day one, it's Clausen. It's just too bad that there isn't one single quarterback out of this top three that I think is less ready to assume the starting job than Clausen. Physically, he's slightly above average - in arm strength, accuracy (which isn't great on deep balls), pocket presence and all the rest. Clausen's been highly touted since high school, and as such, I'm not certain I'd be comfortable handing him anything, particularly a starting job. Still, there's a lot to like about Clausen - particularly his overall polish - and he's definitely worth taking near the top of the first round. There is a slight boom-or-bust factor here, though.
Tim Tebow, Florida. I get that even mentioning his name is asking for an incredibly controversial comments section, but count me amongst those who think Tebow has a chance - note that I'm not promising anything - to become an NFL starter. I think he's at least a year away, maybe two, and should be buried on the depth chart as such until he proves behind the scenes that he can grasp a full NFL playbook and be mechanically sound. All of that fluff, though - leadership, intangibles, football IQ, work ethic, competitive streak - it's not fluff, folks. It's incredibly important when NFL scouts evaluate a player, and in those departments, Tebow is aces. There's no getting around that. I am a sucker for competitors at the quarterback position - you'll be hard-pressed to find many of those in the NFL these days - and I think Tebow has enough natural physical talent to eventually overcome his technical shortcomings. I look at him as a third-round prospect because of the dubious amount of polish his game needs, but would not be surprised if he went very highly in the second round.
Beyond those three players, there are certainly interesting prospects, but I wouldn't give any of them better than a 25% chance of becoming a dependable NFL starter. Mississippi's Jevan Snead and Fordham's John Skelton have excellent physical gifts, and would be worthy projects in the fourth round. West Virginia's Jarrett Brown and Central Michigan's Dan LeFevour each lack something - with Brown, it's experience, while with LeFevour, it's physical tools - but there's enough intrigue and promise there that I'd consider either in the fifth round. There are some intriguing late-round prospects, as well, including Tennessee's Jonathan Crompton, Northwestern's Mike Kafka, Troy's Levi Brown, Oklahoma State's Zac Robinson and Penn State's Daryll Clark. All have intriguing physical or intangible attributes, but none of these guys are anything worth getting excited over.
I'm certain there are players that you've noticed are absent from the discussion; rest assured that I have not forgotten anyone, and if a name doesn't appear here, it's with good reason. At least to me.
That's it. Those are the three guys that I'm drafting with the idea of them eventually being my starting quarterback. Should Buffalo have the opportunity to draft any of them in their designed round (first for Bradford and Clausen, third for Tebow), I think they'd be foolish to pass. Heck, part of me - the "fan desperate for a solution to the QB problem that's plagued this franchise for over half of my life" part of me - wouldn't mind seeing Buffalo take any three of those guys at any point in the draft.
But three isn't a very big number, and because of the watered-down nature of the league, these are three players that should be in high demand come draft day. That'll make Buffalo's job of finally solving their QB issue even tougher come the weekend of April 22.
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Oh, and this will be my only post of the day, folks. I’ve been on vacation the past two days, it’s March Madness, and there are just other things that I’d rather be doing this weekend. :)
If you have questions, I’ll gladly field them.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
Does this mean tomorrow’s post will be some obscure interview from the 1980s or a video on a prospect :)
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
Personally I wouldn't minf a story from one of our other editors.
Matt and Eric’s posts are always solid, and I’ve been anxiously awaiting the continuation of K’s Top 50 Bills Of All Time series.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That series will continue after the draft, FYI.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Awsome! Looking forward to it!
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
OH NOES!
I forgot about that!!! CRAP! Back on task, back on task, back on task
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Glad to be of service ;-)
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. I’ll have actual stuff for you tomorrow. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Syracuse All the Way!
Let’s not worry about a QB in this draft.
S.Bradford is going to be a star in the NFL.
We need to build our offensive line first.
Like ASAP.
This year build the line so it can run the ball for this year with success along with working our two young studs in at TE/S.Nelson & WR/J.Hardy.
Start trading current players with teams that need them.
Example/Cleveland:
Trade L.Evans, D.Whitner and A.Youboty to them knowing they are hometown boys with talent along with needs for Cleveland. This is value for us along with it for them.
In return get their #1
Cleveland #1 B.Bulaga/LOT
Buffalo #1 R.McClain/ILB
Bufalo #2 T.Cody/NT
(You need two NT’s to be successful in the 3/4)
Buffalo #3 M.Rolle/SS
Buffalo #4 K.Calloway/ROT
Buffalo #5 A.Ulatoski/ROT to ROG
(E.Wood has aserious injury and will not be ready)
(E.Wood should go to OC when he gets healthy)
(G.Hangartner is solid however, due to the injury of Wood we need to move him to the second unit)
LOT/B.Bulaga6’/6" LOG/A.Levitre6’/4" OC/E.Wood6’/5" ROG/A.Ulatoski6’/8" ROT/K.Calloway6’/8"
Two years together and then go after Matt Barkley of USC in 2013 draft
Buffalo #6 C.Jackson/FB
By building this year through the draft we can get more picks this year by trading our future picks and fill our needs.
Then next year look at F/A for a few pieces if needed.
Waiting every year for the draft when you need many pieces isd just a waist of time with thi s team.
2010 Bills Defensive Line:
DE/D.Edwards NT/T.Cody DE/????
I gotta ask Brian
If Tim Tebow played for Mt Union(giving an extremely hypothetical case), would he be considered anything other than a very late round/UDFA pick? And if he wouldn’y be how can we consider him a franchise type QB now?
I’m not sure how that question is relevant, to be honest. Tebow didn’t play at Mount Union, or any other small-time college. He was recruited by Florida and starred there. Why would anything else matter?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
Look at it like this. If Tebow hadn’t played at a major college, would he still be considered a potential franchise player? I mean I can’t say it any plainer than that.
More specifically I'm asking
If Tebow had played at a small school like Alcorn State(kinda like Steve McNair) would we still be ranking Tebow this highly, or discussing him this much.
Well, we certainly wouldn’t be discussing him this much, but again, I don’t see that as relevant.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
how is that relevant?
Tebow played at a big time program because he was such a big time player. And he not only starred there, he became arguably the best college football player ever.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
BTW
That’s not meant in a prickish way. lol
hhaha not taken in a prickish way
yea, i just read that whole thread. Wow, you guys really dove into that one!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
okay well what if Tebow was right-handed and one leg was longer than the other?
Brian’s point is……..that it doesnt matter about all those “what if’s”
Because that calls for speculation………..and there’s enough of that when it comes to him anyways…….no need to add more.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely. Well said.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I understood the question the first time. I just don’t understand why it’s relevant. Who cares how he’d be evaluated had he played somewhere else? Scouts already do undie evaluations and rank based on pure physical attributes. Level of competition and production at said level definitely count for something, so removing that from the evaluation strikes me as rather absurd.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok
So the fact that he did play at a major college does play a large level in your analysis. That’s what I wanted to know.
it should.........
that says something about the quality of player……obviously if you’re recruited to go play at a MAJOR D-1 school on a full ride……….well……you’re something special.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
First because theres been way to many really good small school NFL player’s. And secondly if you were recruited heavily coming out of HS, IMO sometimes it just mean’s you developed faster than other kid’s your age. I was just wondering how other people analyze draft prospect’s, because I personally, don’t figure in level of competition. But once again that’s just
the way I do it. And in no way a knock on other peoples opinion’s.
OK. I knew you had an angle, I just couldn’t see it. :)
And yeah, I think you have to factor in level of competition. Not because of recruitment, but because a gigantic percentage of NFL players come from D1, and if you produce against that competition, you’ve already proven a lot more than a D1-AA or DII prospect.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean I get where you guy's are coming from
I’m just a talent will tell, type of guy. Anyhow’s I’m glad we got that straightened out. : )
So
Xavier Omon should have been drafted in the first round and been the next Adrian Peterson then ? Assuming that level of competition doesn’t matter. He did have almost 100 TD’s in college afterall.
He couldn’t even see the field for the Bills, so I think that shows level of competition does count.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
What?
So what if he had production on the field? He didn’t have elite measurables. And what does Omon’s dissapointing career have to do with any of the argument’s I’ve been making?
Tebow doesn't have elite measurables either so it's very relevant.
Isn’t that the whole problem with Tebow – his measurables are not elite – his intangibles are though.
Anyway, you’ve already had your whole argument so I’ll leave it be. Just thought I’d give an example where huge production at a lower level fails at the NFL.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
He's a big strong kid with very good athleticism and a strong arm.
those measurables are good. He doesn’t have experience in a pro-style offense and his motion has historically been funky. THOSE are his weaknesses. They aren’t really “measurables” or “intangibles,” they’re a third thing that I don’t know the name of.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
too many?
Sorry I dont buy it………….sure there are some “example” of small school guys……..but if you look at NFL rosters the majority (80-90%) of the most productive guys on the field……..are from Big Time schools.
Just go look at any NFL Rosters………the guys like Fred Jackson are the exception………more often you find the Peyton Mannings……..are from Big Time College programs.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
norcaliangelsfan
Here’s a fun Linky for you
yeah and just from the look at it......
look even at the A’s…
NFL Players from Arizona and Alabama compared to Abilene Christian?
Both Schools get the same number of players each year in college……yet which ones are going into the NFL?
Thanks for the link.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
But keep looking through the letter’s. When school’s like Hampton are putting like 8 player’s in the NFL, I thinkit would be fair to say that about 40 percent of the league is from small school’s, or Div l school’s not renowned for there football program’s.
8 players in the NFL...great......
how many Pro Bowls?
How many starters?
Getting into the NFL is great………but Im talking about successful players…..which is what your original point was, IIRC?
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
and compare to a list of great Big School players.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm defining good as a NFL starter/ guy who get's alot of playing time.
Mike Sellers,Brad Hoover,Mike Scifres,Kevin Boss,Michael Koenen,Darren Sharper,Derek Cox,Matt Turk,Chris Cooley,Donald Penn,Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie,Terrell Owens,Al Harris,Thomas Howard,Jermon Bushrod,Drayton Florence,Frank Walker,Todd Herremans,Paul Spicer,Cortland Finnegan,Brent Grimes,Adam Vinatieri,Brandon Jacobs,Bart Scott,Thomas Morstead,Sammie Lee Hill,Hank Fraley,Brian Moorman,Derrick Ward,Zach Miller(Jax),Nate Burleson,Harvey Dahl,Jimmy Kleinsasser,Brian Waters,Vincent Jackson,Aaron Smith,Michael Turner,Patrick Crayton,Terrence McGee,Allen Barbre,Miles Austin,Visanthe Shiancoe,Pierre Garcon,London Fletcher,Jared Allen,Antoine Bethea,Antwan Barnes,Nick Harper,Tony Romo,Michael Roos,Ben Graham,Jamaal Jackson,Leigh Bodden,Stephen Neal,Leonard Weaver,Fred Jackson,Kevin Boothe,Rashean Mathis,Jahri Evans,Johnny Knox,Robert Mathis,Donald Driver,Corey Williams.
This is all solid player’s who’ve started or been elite levelplayer’s who come from “small” school’s. IE they didn’y play against a high levelof competition in college. Or I’ve never heardof there college.
Now go make the list for the big-time schools.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
He might need to make a separate post to fit all of those :-)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
In a bit
I’m actually worn out from copy paste. Lol. That list took forever, and I didn’t include school’s like Troy and Deleware who while technically small(er) school’s have turned into NFL pipelines.
And anyone looking at that list
Which is starter’s and significant contributor’s only, canargue that there’s not a significant amount of small school talent in the NFL, or that like 40 percent of the league comes from small colleges.
I never said there were NO small school guys who made an impact.....
I appreciate your time and effort to put forward that list….but guess what, that list is about the equivilent of ONE NFL Team…..
There are 31 other teams in the NFL…and guess what schools they came from?
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of those guy's come from small school's to. ; )
No I get what your saying and all, I’m just saying 60 some guy’s who are all really ,really, good is a pretty good indication that level of competition isn’t that huge a deal. Which is why I don’t really factor it into my player rankings pre draft.
60 out of 1696........(which is 53 guys per 32 teams)
which is roughly 3.5% of NFL rosters…….
And Im only taking 53 guys per roster……
Again….the numbers tell you the story my friend.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
You are aware
That’s only the starter’s/significant contributor’s to NFL teams. That is by no mean’s all of them. Or even close to all of them.
who cares about the backups on an NFL team?
are you really worried about who is gonna be the third string QB on the Bills?
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
About number's
I have 11 percent of the leagues starter’s coming from small school’s.
Which would tie in with my 40 percent
of the league comes from small school’s theory.
well your theory is wrong.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
what is your definition of Small school?
Any school thats not a BCS school?
Any school that is Div 1-AA or lower?
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say any Non BCS conference school
wouldhave to be considered a small school. With a few obvious exception’s. I also include school’s like Western Illinois, and Nothern Colorado, whom I think are Div 1 but noone would ever consider a major college.
no wonder you're getting the numbers you are getting......
I would say any school that isnt part of the 117 or so Div 1-A schools would be considered “small”
I dont hear the term small school thrown around much for teams like BYU, Utah, San Diego St, etc…….
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because small-school guys succeed in the NFL doesn’t mean you can wholly ignore where they come from. Sorry, you can’t. Evaluations factor in pretty much everything you can think of, including level of competition. Sorry – that’s just the way it is.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Well if anything
It could be argued it mean’s the small school guy’s are more talented. Since there off the football map, they’d have to be outstanding at something, just to get on scout’s radar.
Time to let it gooooooooo
We all agree that great players can come from small school, but I don’t see how you can argue against the fact that bigger schools produce more great players. Part of the reason they do is because playing against the best makes you better. It is the classic big fish in a little pond vs big fish in a big pond argument.
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
what? more talented?
If they were more talented they would be on Div 1 programs…..BCS teams even……
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Your gonna tell me all 18 year old’s are created even, and only the best end up at Division 1 school’s?
that is usually the case.......
especially now a days with the way recruiting is…….
Sure some of these kids get better COACHING and that aids in the development……but thats not talking about the talent of the player anymore.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
So puberty doesn’t happen anymore?
where are you going with this?
I think now you’re just grasping at straws……….
and if thats the case then this discussion needs to be over.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not grasping at straw's
Your the one saying that every 18 year old is created equal and there not. A lot of it is how long they’ve been playing football, how physically mature they are, heck who there H>S. coach know’s has something todo with it. But you’re assumption that only the best end up at Div I doesn’t really hold up under scrutiny.
The best that end up in the NFL.....
usually are from Div-1
Thats what Im saying. And what I have been saying all along.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Your the one saying that every 18 year old is created equal and there not.
Which, by the way, has ZILCH to do with the original topic of conversation.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It does...
He’s saying that guys with elite talent aren’t recruited out of HS because they haven’t developed that elite talent yet, which is why a good number of talented players end up in small schools. His argument makes sense, it’s just wrong. If I go out on the play ground and dunk a basketball in an 8th grader’s face… no one cares (however funny it may be). If I go out and dunk on Dwayne Wade, then that says something… this logic is undeniable.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL. No, no it does not mean that.
This isn’t even really an argument. You’re arguing that small-school guys can succeed, and I 100% agree. All I am saying is that not factoring in the level of play in an evaluation is a mistake, and that’s not an opinion, it’s fact.
:)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
All I am saying is that not factoring in the level of play in an evaluation is a mistake, and that’s not an opinion, it’s fact.
I just can’t agree with that. To me that would mean Steve McNair should have never been a high first round draft pick. At least that’s what it’s saying to me.
Anyhow's I think I'm gonna bow out of this conversation.
This truly has been enlightening. But let’s just agree to disagree and move on. : )
Im done with this as well......
you keep pointing out the minor exceptions….instead of looking at it as a whole…..
Again I dont disagree that there are good “small school” players in the NFL……
But again…..its the exception…..not the rule.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
No. That’s not what it means. It means that McNair was talented enough to be taken No. 3 overall, but there were also serious concerns about the fact that he played at Alcorn State against substandard competition. Which, of course, is EXACTLY how he came into the league.
You’re adding a note of finality to the whole thing. Level of competition is just one piece of the puzzle, but it IS a piece.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So now I have to ask
Where precisely you’d put level of competition at? Because if I did incluse it,it would probably be way down at the bottom of my list.
It’s certainly not as important as physical talents, player type, intangibles, football smarts, and all of that good stuff.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, well, I wasn’t lying when I said earlier that this wasn’t even an argument. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Where the Pac-10, jk
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
among other places, yes :-)
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Three days later...
After reading this exchange, I thought I’d do something empirical. I looked at all of the Pro Bowl selections last season (including those that didn’t play and all substitutes) for which schools they attended. Here’s the data
119 data points, of which 84 (70.6%) were from BCS schools (six major conferences), 20 (16.8%) were from mid-major schools, 11 (9.2%) were from FCS (I-AA) schools, 3 (2.5%) were from D-II schools and 1 (0.8%) was from a D-III school. So a total of 35 players or 29.4% were not from the six major conferences.
As an aside, the most well-represented school was Miami with 11 (that’s 10% of all Pro-Bowlers!). Next best is Michigan with 6. The D-III player is London Fletcher, former Bill out of the tiny John Carroll University in Cleveland.
by KristofferJay on Mar 23, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So....
answer this question…
I’ve chosen 2 players with a very similar skill set…
Player A: threw for 4,200 yards 28 TD and 9 INTs in the NFL
Player B: threw for 4,700 yards 50 TD and 8 INTs in the Big 12
Which player would you take, and why?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do I choose player A
Because he obviously has got it done on the NFL level for at least 1 season.
Right
the only parameters you were given is production and level of competition… you chose less production against tougher competition.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to point out
That I feel the level of competition difference Between the NFL and College. Is greater than any difference’s in competition between the different level’s in college.
Maybe so, but the jump in college levels is still very significant.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not worried about
your feelings, only the fact that you proved yourself wrong already.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
No. I’m talking about the difference in talent in the ameautuer(sp) level of a sport. So you brought up hey there’s a difference in competition at the pro level. Which I’ve never denied, and used as prove of my inconsistiencies about a whole another argument.
I understand
what you are saying, he is getting much more hype than he would if he played at a smaller college, the perfect example is Dan Lefevour who overall had better stats than Tebow and probably at this time is a better pro prospect, not to say Tebow cant become a better player than LeFevour over time. And before I start getting lambasted I am a huge Tebow fan, but he is way over-hyped.
Semantics, we would never know.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
T^o the detriment to all of our mental health
I kid I kid………mostly.
Yea I posted after trying to read the 80 post going back and forth.
It was great, and I got what you were saying about kids developing later. Or, even quality coaching could help a small school kid get to the NFL.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So what you're telling me here...........(and please correct me if I am wrong?)
is that you dont like Max Hall?
Inappropriate……and disturbing…..frankly……I am disappointed in you Brian.
:-)
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions
Haha. That is what I’m telling you, and I am comfortable with your disappointment. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh and I cant wait to see all the Tebow bashing that goes on in THIS thread........
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:21 AM EDT reply actions
No mention of Tony Pike.
I dont think hes that bad of a prospect. Whats your take on him Brian?
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
actually reminds me of a poor mans Sam Bradford.
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
Tony Pike isn’t 1/3 the prospect that Sam Bradford is.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Thus the “poor man’s” part.
He never said how poor we were talking!
I call it... The Avaslug!
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub. Until I get the newsletter out, anyway.
Syracuse Basketball 2010: Big East Champs!!! G'Orange!
ha!
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Mar 20, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Skinny frame, huge durability issues, less than average arm. I think he’s a good mid-round prospect for a sunny weather or dome team. I think he’s a horrendous fit in Buffalo.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh believe me I would much rather go with Bradford over him, just kind of reminds me of him, build and the way he stands in the pocket… But its probably just the tall, thin look. lol
Yeah he wouldnt be a bad fit in a warmer weather/dome team… Maybe Minnesota or Indy in the mid rounds?
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
They would be good fits, though I doubt he ends up with either one. I tend to look at a team like Arizona if they view him as a potential starter, or Atlanta or Dallas, who could be in the market for long-term backups.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
AZ would be a good fit, expecially if they arent too high on Lienart… which it looks like with that $ they are giving Anderson… Pike could come in there and compete… Maybe San Fran too?
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
I was on the Tony Pike bandwagon early, but had to step off it
Pike looks good on tape. I really like his height, release, and mobility in the pocket, but when I saw him in shorts……..not so much. His body is going to have to fill out a lot or he will get snapped like a twig in the NFL. I would take him in the 4-5th round range.
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
If there's one guy I absolutely adore as a sleeper type prospect
It’s Levi Brown. I just think he’s got all the tool’s you need to succeed as an NFL QB prospect. I also like Max Hall as well.
I’m semi-with you on Brown, though again, I think he’d do better in situations outside of Buffalo. I don’t think Max Hall is draftable by any team. Way too small, nothing close to resembling NFL arm strength.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Do we know if Brown is more like McNabb or Russell?
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
for his sake… it better not be Russel lol
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
We all know were talking about Levi Brown
Not Jarret Brown right? Everytime I see someone ask that question I get confused for a minute. lol
ooops....my bad
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
He wont be Russell......
because he wont be a number 1 overall pick…..thus the expectations wont be nearly as high.
And he wont be McNabb either.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
if it is Jarrett Brown we’re talkin about here… I would disagree and say that he could be McNabb if he got 3 yrs of time to learn a scheme and his OC never left him and his team managed to develop a solid OL
The skills are there, he just needs time to learn the position better. He’s the definition of raw
we the FANS the VOICE the PEOPLE the true BLOOD of the Buffalo BILLS are just doing all this SO mAYBE just MAYbe the Coach THE teAM will just see how us the FANS the the SPARTAN aka BUFARTAN we will not Surrender to know onE.
-abayarde
by uPitt_BillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Tavaris Jackson
2.0
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately......and Im trying to be as realistic with my man-crush as I can be...
The only way Max Hall gets on a NFL team is as a backup…….and a team that runs a West Coast type offense……..even better if its a dome team…….He’s just too short, and not all that strong-armed……..but the kid is a gamer IMO.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree with the three.
I think that Claussen is the most NFL ready. roblem is that I also think that he’s aleady reaqched his sealing. I seriously doubt that he will get any better than he is right now. Although I think that means that you will have an above average starter for years to come, I doubt that your going to get anything truly special with him.
Bradford on the other hand has a much higher sealing than Claussen, and thats probably why he’ll go first overall to the Rams. But I also think that he<ll need to sit a full year behind Mark Bulger before he’s ready to play in the NFL. His shoulder injury is a big concern as well, and might just stop him for ever reaching his sealing.
Tebow on the other hand is an enigma. I honestly think that he has the highest sealing of the three. But I also think that he’s the ferthest away from that sealing. I think that with the proper system and training he will eventually become a great NFL QB, but whichever team that drafts him will need to show A LOT of patience with him. I wouldn’t even put him in action for his first two seasons while he works on accelerating his throwing motion. But his physical tools, his football smarts and his increadible intangibles speak volumes. I’m just not sure that he’ll ever be able to fix his throwing motion, and unless he does, he will never develop into a true franchise QB.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
Tebow is a good example of someone that could benefit from a farm team system. I saw a story online yesterday about the UFL trying to hook up with the NFL and it got me thinking of possably a farm system in place. Not a “AAA” team for every NFL team… but maybe like divisional “AAA” teams. ex: AFCE teams would have one combined “AAA” team and our prospects would play there if not NFL ready, along with practice squad players would be on there as well.
I think something like that could benefit Tebow greatly.
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
Totally agree. I also think that if Tebow is rushed, he’ll get destroyed in the NFL. And I don’t think that I have faith in the Bills ability to show him the patience that he needs.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
haha patience with a QB is something we havent seen in a while in Buffalo, not saying that Ive been patient in anyway either :-P
But yeah Tebow needs time. I agree a year min. he has to sit. And what do you think abou the farm system thing, if you dont mind me asking. I think in theory it would be a good idea, could help alot of young players… but I dont think it will happen with all the money these rookies are making and the chance of injuries. Maybe if they end up putting a cap on the rookie contracts it could work?
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
Good point bflo
Where’s the London Monarchs or the Barcelona Dragons when we need them!!!
"Whether or not you write well, write bravely"
haha
I guess I never really thought about the NFLE. I forgot they used to exsist lol. But I wish there was some farm system in place. Just not possible probably
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
Don’t think that it would. Personally i see the practise squads expanding and becomeing the contigeants on the UFL squads if it happens. Also PS players would have to become exclusive contracts as well, as in you can’t sign a player off of someone else’s practise squad. But the concept is sound.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I`m just not sure that devisional teams would work. I mean I just don`t see the Pats liking their youngsters to develop besides Bills players, or Bears’ players beside Packer ones, or Cowboys beside Eagles… you get where I’m going with this.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha Yeah I get where youre going with that one… I was thinking that problem too I just didnt know any other way to get it to work. Not enough players to each have their own… and an 8 team “AAA” league would sound about right.
But like you said, I just doubt it would ever work, unfortunately. But thanks for the input CBF
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
Well it might work as an 8 team league with each 8 teams taking on players from 4 NFL teams from different divisions.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats true too. Never thought of it that way. I just figured 8 division, 8 teams, there ya go! lol
There are so many players that could benefit from something like this. Mainly QB’s, but theres a lot of players that could use a year of “Semi-pro” football. They could be called up, just like the NHL/MLB.
The draft would probably need a few extra rounds, maybe 10, for a few years to make sure theres enough players to field 8 extra teams.
"Its always Miller Time
Whens it gonna be Sabres-Offense Time?"
- by Jsz on Mar 3, 2010 6:25 PM PST
i agree 100% bflo
there is so much talent these days that the league needs a farm system.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I don’t even think that we’d need to expand the draft either. Theres plenty of talent to go around to fill spots on 8 minor league teams.
On a personal not I would be disapointed if it took good players away from the CFL, as I’m sure that some player that are north of the border think that they could have a better shot of making it in the NFL if they played in the developmental league.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately
and I know you Canadians love the way it is now so you wouldn’t change it, I think if the CFL played four downs and had all the same field dimensions as the NFL a farm system wouldn’t be necessary. I think it hurts CFL players that they play such a different game as talent evaluators don’t look at them as honestly as they would if they played by the same rules.
Does that make any sense?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
It makes perfect sense actually. I think that the CFL would be the perfect developmental league for the NFL if they played under the same rules. Here’s the thing though, that will never happen.
The reason it will never happen is simple, the CFL has been around as a 3 down pro-football league for over 70 years (since the 1940’s) and if you take into account the two leagues that merged to form the CFL, it’s been around for over 125 years. Thats much longer than any american pro-football league. And just like 4-down football is a great american tradition, 3-down football is a great canadian tradition that has even been around longer than the american version.
And thats not even taking into account that the canadian university league, highschool leagues and local summer leagues all play 3-dawn ball. It’s a canadian tradition that is not going to change any time soon. And personally I’m fine with the “inferior” (I call it much different) product that the CFL gives out as opposed to the NFL (as are most canadians) and I am a very big fan of both leagues.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
as a canadian born and bred, the only way i will take the cfl seriously is if there is only canadian players in it. i would be compelled to watch because there would be people i know in the league. as it stands right now, i don’t get fired up to watch the argos. sunday morning rolls around in september, it’s a whole ’nother story. billllllllllllssssssssss
Later Losman! Don't bailmode on beastmode, not just yet.
by rockybillboa on Mar 21, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
See your kinda like the exception to the rule, in fact most of Toronto is. The relationship that most of the rest of Canada has with the CFL is very different than the relationship southern Ontario has with the CFL. I think that Toronto’s size has something to do with, as well as your proximity to the Bills.
So for only canadian players in the CFL, they tried that about 60 years ago and it failed miserably, fact it that we need americans to keep a playing level up. But there is a quota of Canadians that each team has to keep (i think it’s a minimum of 20% of the team) and a minimum of two starters on O and 2 on D that are canadian as well. So it’s not like we’re not an integral part of the league. In fact the Argoes just signed Queen’s University’s starting QB (Vanier CUP MVP and tournament MVP) to compete for their starting job.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Clausen... Clausen... Clausen
Sorry, I know you loooove Claussen, but it’s Clausen. He’s not a jar of pickles.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not tryin to be mean
but it cracks me up when people spell his name like that because it actually makes me want pickles
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The QB prospects
I take it you don’t see McCoy as a Drew Brees-like NFL prospect…I don’t totally disagree, but I’m wondering where he’s projected to be taken. At this time last year, I felt like he was going to be a decent prospect, but the two games I saw him play this year (vs. Oklahoma and Nebraska), he looked pretty ordinary, so I cooled on him…what I’ve read on Skelton intrigues me, although I’ve obviously never seen him play…Of the players I have seen play, I have no interest in Darryl Clark, Jonathan Crompton, Zac Robinson or Dan Lefevour…I liked Snead a bunch the few times I saw him play, but I’m baffled as to how his numbers were so poor last season…I think Tebow makes more sense for another NFL franchise that doesn’t have an immediate gaping hole at QB…I honestly don’t see a team in the league that has a worse QB depth chart than the Bills.
Just say no...to Trent Edwards at QB.
McCoy strikes me as a third-rounder as well. He doesn’t have the requisite arm strength to make it unless he’s in a great situation, and I really question his toughness.
Baffled is a great word to describe Snead. His accuracy issues are much more alarming than his INT rate from a year ago.
Your point about Tebow is a great one, which is why I wouldn’t necessarily want Buffalo to consider him before the third.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Baffled is a great word to describe Snead. His accuracy issues are much more alarming than his INT rate from a year ago.
I watched him play 5 or 6 games this year, 1 in person. He makes bad decisions, and then can’t the ball in the right area code. He had unbelievable talent around him, and he cost Ole Miss its season. I wouldn’t take him in the 7th round. I dislike Snead more than any other player in this year’s draft. I dislike him about 80x more than Poz. That is a high amount of dislike.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
appreciate it
I’m always interested in hearing from someone who actually knows the player rather than some draft-nik like McShay or the guy at the bar who thrives on creating a mock draft against invisible opponents…my question for you is, what do you make of Snead’s 2008 season? I liked him a ton following the Cotton Bowl that season wand was shocked that his numbers were so poor in ’09…any insight into why he played so much less effuctively in ’09?
Just say no...to Trent Edwards at QB.
my question for you is, what do you make of Snead’s 2008 season? I liked him a ton following the Cotton Bowl that season wand was shocked that his numbers were so poor in ’09…any insight into why he played so much less effuctively in ’09?
The only things I can think of are losing Wallace, who was a very good wideout for him, and that SEC coaches made an adjustment against him, and he didn’t adjust back. The only way that would explain his accuracy problems though is a crisis of confidence, “aiming the ball”, as they say. With regard to what changed, it’s really really difficult to know. I’ll say this: the only thing worse than his lack of accuracy being a physical problem would be if we found out it was a confidence problem. I’ve had enough of those.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
WHAT talent?
Dexter McCluster? Their OLine stunk… and the fact their defense was good doesn’t give Snead more time to throw. He came out early because he was getting the sh!t kicked out of him and didn’t want to risk his future for one more year at Ole Miss. He’s better than what he did last year, but he’s still a developmental type because of all that.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Dexter McCluster was one of the best playmakers in college football, bar none.
so yeah, he’s part of the talent I was referring to. How about Brandon Bolden? Shay Hodge? He had plenty of playmakers. His Offensive Line wasn’t that good, but pressure wasn’t the problem, he was. He threw just as many awful balls after sitting in the pocket for 6 seconds as he did when his o-line disappeared.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Hah
well there’s no saving you then if you think Bolden and Hodge are a talented supporting cast… and that pressure wasn’t the problem… we just apparently watch football games differently.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You
don’t think it’s a coincidence that he loses Michael Oher and his play suffers?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
oh it's definitely not a coincidence.
that was part of it, no doubt. but they’re o-line wasn’t horrible. It wasn’t good, but his play stunk against plenty of teams that didn’t get pressure on him, and he threw plenty of interceptions with no one in his face.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
when will the bills hold that private work out with tim tebow? also, one mock draft had the bills taking cj spiller at # 9. what do u guys think about that?
this team has too many holes to take a guy at one of their only positions of strength. Spiller is good, but compare the upgrade from Marshawn Lynch to him with the upgrade from NO ONE to Dan Williams, or Demetrius Bell to Brian Buluaga, and you’ll see why it’d shock me to see them take a RB.
As for Tebow, didn’t we already have a private workout with him?
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
but he is a better prospect than either of them, particularly Bulaga who has late 1st talent at best
the team needs talented players, its easier to plug gaps and draw top FA’s when theres talent
we the FANS the VOICE the PEOPLE the true BLOOD of the Buffalo BILLS are just doing all this SO mAYBE just MAYbe the Coach THE teAM will just see how us the FANS the the SPARTAN aka BUFARTAN we will not Surrender to know onE.
-abayarde
by uPitt_BillsFan on Mar 21, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont disagree with that
i just think RB and FS are perhaps the only two positions we shouldn’t include on our draft board.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
It's a business, fist,
and then a “sport.” 99 percent of the fans always forget this.
If available, the Bills will pick Claussen because he’s a very good prospect but mainly because he’s fronm Notre Dame and the Buffalo area is predominantly Catholic.
Translation = Claussen will sell mucho tickets! This is why we got T.O. last year. Did anyone really think T.O. was going to lead the Bills in the playoffs? Come on. He made the club money via merchandise and game-day tickets.
Whether he’s the right pick or not, Claussen’s selection makes good business sense with the thousands of Notre Dame fans living in this area. Since we also are desperate for a QB, he fills both needs.
P.S. Tebow may not be mechanically pretty, but this guy’s desire and will to win is so strong he will find a way to carve a niche in the NFL.
uh huh
that’s why the Bills hired Dick Jauron and then Chan Gailey, because they’re the types of big names that put fannies in the seats.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Just think of the pickle sponsorships, though.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahaha
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice, The Claussen Zone
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
will we
have to change the team name to the Buffalo Dills?
"huge, big, fast, nasty...all those terms"
by fansince60 on Mar 20, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't even want to ask what we would call the Jills :-)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
LOL....much better than what I was thinking
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
Sorry...can't go there here :-)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
I think I got an idea, if I do, nice.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I had to quit too…the next would be over the edge even speaking euphemistically.
But, on a more acceptable level…if the Claussen company bought the naming rights to the Ralph, would it be called the Pickle Jar?
"huge, big, fast, nasty...all those terms"
LOL!!!!! The Raiders have the Black Hole.......we would have the Dill Hole :)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
every woman sitting in the section gets a copy of this
www.drsadie.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58
"huge, big, fast, nasty...all those terms"
Well, I don't have to worry about shopping for a B-day present for my wife ;-)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
I gotta find that picture
of Clausens freshman year and playing verse Michigan. He got sacked once, and it was two Mich DT, DE and another player and they just have Clausen sandwiched between them all. It would be a great link if I could find it.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't link it but it should be there.
nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/26662374
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If available, the Bills will pick Claussen because he’s a very good prospect but mainly because he’s fronm Notre Dame and the Buffalo area is predominantly Catholic.
Do you know a lot of people who don’t buy tickets because Trent Edwards went to Stanford? As far as I know, the Giants don’t have trouble selling tickets because Eli went to a school whose mascot was inspired by the confederacy. People go to Dolphins games despite the team’s lack of Cubans.
I’d be shocked if the team took Clausen because he went to a catholic school.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
LOL
Miami’s fan base sucks and they might be a team that actually would sell more tickets if they did have Hispanic players…. bad example there.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh? I’m Catholic and the last thing I think about when I buy tickets to something is whether the guys are Catholic.
Plus you don’t have to be Catholic to go to ND.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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Buffalo Rumblings
by MattRichWarren on Mar 23, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks like it will be 7:30 ET on Thurs the 22nd....
so I believe that is 11:30 pm time in London…….
Isnt NY 4hrs behind London?
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually it’s 5 hours, so it would be 12:30 am.
PS Actually had to look it up, Didn’t want ether of us to be wrong.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks...
either way……its gonna be a late Thurs night for any of our European Bills Brothers.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
with the Rumblings store opening
there should be a shirt for the UK Bills fans.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
The Bills & The UK- Because we both hate the patriots.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
by JPH on Mar 20, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is 5 time zones away, except now the east coast is on Daylight Saving Time, making London time 4 hours ahead of EST.
nice........
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgot about that daylight savings crap. screws over the entire system.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 20, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
realistically
Tebow is the only one of the three that will definitely be there. And, I agree with Brian- any higher than 3rd round is stretching. Given our situation and next year’s QB class, I can see merit in Gaileys’ comments about an open competition with what we have. Unpopular, but realistic. Other need positions in this draft are deeper in talent. I know, a QB is everything. But, why spend the cash this year when it would be better spent in ’11. By most accounts, we will still be near the top in draft position in ’11. We can garner so much more talent at other positions this year.
"huge, big, fast, nasty...all those terms"
disagree
that clausen is the most pro ready. clausen worked in the same offense, with better receiving talent, than brady quinn— and had less success against the same schedule. Why are we supposed to believe that Clausen will look any better than Quinn, he should look worse if record is any indicator at all.
For those who saw a healthy Bradford play know he is worthy of the number one overall, even after sitting out a whole season. He worked with an underdeveloped receiving his entire career, he had no golden tate to throw to. From my observations, he may have the greatest deep ball accuracy in the history of the position, i’ve never seen a quarterback repeatedly put thirty or forty yard passes on their receiver’s number. Transitioning out of the oklahoma no-huddle to a pro offense will not be hard for someone as smart as sam (See his wunder test score). Which is why, even with massive injury concerns and having sat a year, he is seen as an elite nfl talent at the most important position. an exciting dude
I’m aware of Clausen’s successes and failures at Notre Dame. He’s still the most pro-ready. Bradford worked in a spread system, and his shoulder is still a huge question mark.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah... but
Oklahoma’s offense isn’t really a Spread. A decent part of the offense was run from under center and such… it’s not like an Urban Meyer or a Mike Leech spread.
I’m not really a big fan of the “pro-ready” garbage, anyway. Unlike level of competition, pro-readiness is kind-of irrelevant at the QB position. Who cares if Clausen could play right away (which he can’t, no QB should)? You have to take the player that will be the best for your football team at QB, not the one who’s going to get on the field the fastest. Teams are always jeopardizing QBs careers because they rush them out there. No matter how “pro-ready” a guy is, you’re still going to have to wait for him… so you might as well pick the one you want long-term.
And also, Spread vs. Pro-Style is another overrated argument. It’s football, not rocket surgery. The only reason a guy would not translate from one system to another is because he was just not a good pro prospect to begin with or he wasn’t given enough time to learn a new system (Alex Smith) before being thrown on the field.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A decent part of the offense was run from under center and such… it’s not like an Urban Meyer or a Mike Leech spread.
Quite right. Side note: I don’t know if you misspelled Mike’s last name on purpose, but it’s quite apt. :)
I’m not really a big fan of the "pro-ready" garbage, anyway.
It’s certainly not the most important factor. If it were, Clausen would be ranked ahead of Bradford.
It’s football, not rocket surgery.
There are rocket surgeries?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
Yes, two intentional quips. I hate “Leech,” the stuff that’s coming out about him… what a scumbag. And I got the “rocket surgery” line from Boondock Saints 2, hilarious.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
he may have the greatest deep ball accuracy in the history of the position
Jeez, give him a little credit.
Why are we supposed to believe that Clausen will look any better than Quinn, he should look worse if record is any indicator at all.
Ken Dorsey had a better career at Miami than Jim Kelly. That must be why he’s had a better NFL career.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
You see
I get your point… but you ruined it because you compared a guy from the 80’s who played under different coaches to a guy who played in the early 2000’s. His point is that you can measure Quinn and Clausen equally because they played under the same coach and in the same system (which is also a terrible argument). Cmon guys! Keep your composure!!
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just curious
Why would you assume clausen would have to be handed anything? He has all the tools to take take the “franchise qb” label. At the very least you have to agree he’s better then anything we have on the roster right now
Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills
by J. Mackin on Mar 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well, of course Clausen is better than what we’ve got. So’s Tebow, if you ask me.
I didn’t say he “has to be handed anything.” I said I’d be hesitant to do so.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
K. That being said, if we draft him and he out performs our vetern qbs in offseason workouts , camps and preseason would u have an issue starting him week 1?
Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills
by J. Mackin on Mar 20, 2010 12:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not in the least, so long as that competition is there.
J.P. Losman was handed the starting job. This is what I’d like to avoid with Clausen.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with you there
Bledsoe shouldve been our qb for at least 3 more seasons
Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills
by J. Mackin on Mar 20, 2010 12:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm gonna take a stab at Tebow....
and the concerns Mob16151 was trying to get at…. Instead of small school however, let’s ask this question… If Tebow had gone to Oklahoma, or Notre Dame, would he have started??
Yeah I know. can open, worms all over the floor…..
Again though, let me state that I’m a Ga Bulldog fan, and have an inherent hatred of anything Gator related… That said…. I think we also need to ignore coaching at each of those schools, so let’s assume all 3, Bradford, Clausen, and Tebow, were all drafted by the Bills… 3 headed monster, open competition, may the best man win…
On physical attributes… I’d have to go, in order, Tebow, Clausen, Bradford….
On Character… Need we ask? Tebow, Bradford, Clausen….
On leadership ability….. Tebow, Bradford, Clausen….
Competitiveness… Tebow, Bradford, Clausen….
Work Ethic………………………Tebow, Bradford, Clausen…..
Pocket awareness…………..Clausen, Bradford, Tebow…..
Accuracy…………………………….Bradford, Clausen, Tebow….
Football IQ………Tie………….Bradford and Tebow, Clausen….
I’m sure I’m missing a few things here, and others will have differing opinions, but I think I’ve made my point, and I even realized as I typed this that yes, I’m on the Tebow bandwagon full fledged now…. OVER the other two!!!! But then, I’ve never really been terribly high on Bradford (though he’s grown on me too), and never ever have wanted Clausen (see above)…. That said however, if Bradford were there at 9, I’d have to take him… Pass on Clausen… Try to trade down, or back up to get Tebow, late, late first, or early second…. He’s the type, and I’ve seen him do it too often against my beloved, Dawgs, and other SEC teams, that will literally lift a team onto his back, and carry them to a win….
JMHO…. Now I gotta go puke…..
nice, i like this post
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
LMAO
Florida-Georgia is by far my favorite tailgate of the year. UGA girls are friggin smokin. It’s just a shame Ryan Seacrest went to UGA, I’m afraid there’s no recovering from that.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I love me those southern gals, oh my!
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Those dawgs have style ;-)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
Stab at Tebow
I would take Clausen over other two. Is more NFL ready than other two. Bradford will be gone by time we pick, so he’s not in my sights. Tebow would be fine , but only in later rds. Like your rankings ,except Football IQ. Why is Clausen last in that catergory? I thought he was in a pro style offense?
One more thing
Didn’t Claussen have the highest completion percentage of the 3?
They
were all in the high 60’s, unless you want to quibble over a couple of % points
They all actually completed almost exactly 68% of their passes give or take a couple of HUNDREDTHS.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 20, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and threw the most. Charlie never ran the ball.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well at least you didn’t put Tebow in the first. I still don’t believe that any of these guys should be drafted this year. Of the three, Bradford will most likely be gone by the time 9 comes up and taking Tebow in the first means giving a Top 10 money that hasn’t even seen a single college game with his new-and-improved throwing technique. Clausen is definitely my favorite simply because he’s the guy that I would be less afraid of putting out there in 2010 and I think he would gain the most (of whatever anyone could gain) out of watching Trent Edwards or Ryan Fitzpatrick (especially Trent since the two are pocket passers). With that said, the Bills have more prevalent issues than QB. At QB, they have personnel that have seen NFL games and have met them with varying success. At LT, they don’t have that. They also don’t have a true NT. AT OLB, they don’t really have anybody you could really consider a 3-4 OLB. I’d rather hold off until next year for QB and beef up that O-Line. That is what the Chargers did when Nix was there, anyways, even though they had Drew Brees at QB.
Reports claim Bradford going to Rame
Latest in the Sporting News is that the Rams plan on drafting Bradford with the first pick and that James Andrews examined his shoulder, and they are working him out soon.
That would not be remotely surprising.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Really what it all comes down to is whether or not the Bills want Tebow because both Clausen and Bradford will be long gone by the time we pick at 9. So based on that assumption I think the smart decision to be made would be not draft a QB (unless Tebow is available no EARLIER than the third round) and focus on our other need’s areas.
Tebow IMO is just too much of an enigma with everything except the intangibles. Does he have the potential to become a decent NFL QB yes. Would I be willing to bet another 10 years of being compared to the Raiders for our ineptitude, no thanks. Focus on the other need areas and get a QB next year with a deeper class when we again draft in the top 10.
Where else would you rather be than right here right now - Marv Levy
10 years? If I shared that opinion, Tebow wouldn’t have even made this list.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Too. Much. Tebow.
I hope the Bills don’t pass on JC if he’s there at #9. JC is not Tebow, by the way.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Mar 20, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
HAHA
nice……………that made me really laugh out loud.
Rec’d
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL, Had to it was spontaneous.
Agreed though, If Clausen is available then take him. If not Wait until round 5 or after. What I don’t get is this. If NT is critical and QB is critical and I am talking franchise quality. Then we should do whatever it takes to get that person. Anything else is a reach with the lack of depth we have. Eitherway with Pick #9 the player should be of franchise calibur.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
A Weak Quarterback Class? I staunchly disagree...
Bradford, Clausen, Tebow, McCoy, LeFevour, Pike, Skelton, etc.
This could be one of the better QB classes in years.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
no
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 20, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
A+W and lots of Cheesy Beef Pasta from Hamburger Helper
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
So if
I just eat that everything will be rose colored?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Your in very small company with that opinion. Your the first person to state that. I think the concensus is next years QB class will be better. But hell whata I know?
by buffalobacker on Mar 20, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s deep, I’ll give you that. Lots of intriguing prospects. Just no blue-chippers.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Mar 20, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
I mean, that was the idea. That’s the only criteria we can judge quarterbacks on to this point. They haven’t done anything in the NFL that suggests they’ll succeed or flop. The talent and potential to succeed is very un-weak.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
I kind of agree with ya.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 20, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the type of QB draft
That 5 years from now we will be touting someone like Crompton or Zac Robinson as the best QB in the league. Like a Romo or Warner. Or it will go the other way and none of them will be starters in the NFL. It is pne pf the hardest QB classes I have ever tried to rate.
by The Irishman on Mar 20, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't see that with Crompton,
but like Z Robinson or T Pike or even Lefeavour could all be good, it’ll be a few years before we find out.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 21, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You can replace any name in there
I am just saying it is a very tough class to judge. No “can’t miss” prospects. I personally like the Raw Talent of Snead and Skeleton, but that is just me.
by The Irishman on Mar 21, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
By “Skeleton”, I’m going to presume you mean either Skelton, or Pike, who looks like a skeleton.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
LOL!!!!! NICE :-)
A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!
It’s weak because there isn’t much NFL-ready talent. That doesn’t mean that there arent good QBs in there. There are. I look at the list you made and I say, “Yea, those guys were very good college QBs.” What I don’t say is, “There’s a bunch of guys there that can take over a team right now, or even a year from now, and have success.” That’s what makes it a weak draft class. Is it possible for those guys to be successful in the NFL? Yes, it is, but it will take a fair deal of work to get them there.
I also agree with this statement
but IMO I feel that Clausen is a Blue-Chip prospect, that’s just me.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 21, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Again
I just think that, crystal balls not being available, talent and potential to succeed is the only thing we can judge quarterbacks on right now. And that’s there in spades this year. I can accept the logic you’re using.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
Physical Tools?
Exactly what physical tools do you believe Dan LeFevour lacks? He out threw Snead in the QB comp. at the Senior Bowl (whom you said DOES have a good arm). Stands 6’3. And I believe ran the fastest 40 for any QB at the combine (or top 3).
LeFevour may be the “sleeper” of this draft. His intangibles, career total TD’s, winning % and athleticism – all rival Tebow’s, if not exceed them. Obviously Central Michigan is not Florida in terms of level of competition. But wouldn’t one be more interested in a QB with all the tangibles & intangibles one could possibly posses, even if he were from a smaller school?
IMO, LeFevour should be ranked 3rd on this list because it is easier for a QB to adjust to a new level of competiton, than it is to completely overhaul the way one throws the football (Tebow’s issue).
No it's not
Go in the back yard and throw a football over hand to someone… switch to side arm. That’s much easier to switch than from throwing against an amateur corner to throwing against a pro corner. It’s not a matter of IF Tebow will fix his mechanics, but WHEN. It’s not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. Some guys can’t do it simply because they don’t want to, which is not the case with Tim Tebow. And don’t ever use the QB competition as your comparison for the arm strength of those guys. Zac Robinson won that competition and he has one of the weakest arms out of that group. You have to watch them in games… how far someone can throw it when they Happy Gilmore the football literally means nothing.
One thing that is extremely impressive, though… is that Tim Tebow throws the ball almost as far as all of them from one knee (57 yards).
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well QB's from Buffalo
are usually on the the ground a lot, so the throwing on one knee could be extemely useful. I’m JK, I get ya mean about the competitions and it doesn’t matter, when 21 other players are on the field is when being a NFL QB matters.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 21, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
So I can’t compare from a competition specifically designed to showcase a quarterbacks ability to throw and throw downfield. But YOU can from a kid throwing off one knee? Give me a break dude. Throwing the football is throwing the football. They have those competitions specifically to judge certain measurables (tangible and intangible) because they know they won’t get a chance to in a pro day or at the combine. Snead did not beat any of those so called weak armed QB’s. So any talk that Snead has a great arm is ridicules. That’s the point.
And I played quarterback. So I know the difference between side arm and overhand. But that’s not Tebow’s issue. He “winds up” with a long elaborated motion in order to generate torque which equals power. The question will be if he can sustain powerful throws without “winding” up. Word was that even at the end of his pro day, he reverted back to the low left hand as soon as he became a little fatigued.
So your example is incorrect. Tebow doesn’t throw side arm. He winds up with a low left hand to generate power. If he can somehow change that style without losing power, he will have succeeded. However, that is not as easy as changing from a side arm throwing motion to an over head one. Just ask Byron Leftwich.
They have those competitions specifically to judge certain measurables (tangible and intangible)
Those skill competitions are done entirely for the entertainment value of spectators. Scouts really couldn’t care any less. Arm strength isn’t how far a QB can throw a football, especially if they’re going to be given a running start. Arm strength is all about what a guy can do on the more challenging throws when planting a foot, stepping into a pass and using body torque, mechanics and natural arm strength to deliver the ball quickly. Getting too much air under the ball is a bad thing. The higher the pass goes, the longer it takes to get there. In real games, guys like LeFevour need to put far more air under the football when they throw those 15 yard outs and other longer passes than Snead or Tebow do. That’s pretty much fact at this point.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
The comp. between QB’s is obviously first and foremost for entertainment purposes. I misspoke when I implied that they do this solely for the purpose of scout evaluation. I’ve heard comments about how far Flacco threw there. So it strikes me as odd that some bring up these examples if they were meaningless.
The deep out and on a rope seam route are greater examples of arm strength, no doubt. However, I hear questions about Tebow’s ability to hit those throws. Same as they say about LeFevour. My point in the end is that arm strength is not an exact science (outside of the extreme, Favre like rocket). Therefore, because of this in exact science, I believe professionals will look at anything they can get their hands on to have a better look at how the ball travels off their hands.
Hah
I was just saying that about Tebow as an interesting fact, not to “prove” he has a strong arm.
I played QB, too… which is why it’s surprising that you use that competition as any sort of validation of your points. LeFevour is widely considered the most accurate QB of that bunch that participated, and Zac Robinson was consistently more accurate than him in all the drills.
And I wasn’t referring to Tebow as throwing side-armed… so I’m not incorrect. It was merely an example of changing one’s throwing motion from something that’s natural to you (overhand) to something that’s unnatural to you (sidearmed).
At Tebow’s Pro Day he tightened his delivery up, but reverted back to the “wind-up” when he needed to put zip on the ball… not because he was tired or whatever. There’s no doubt in my mind if the kid keeps working on it as hard as he has been he’ll overhaul his throws and people will be wondering why we ever questioned him. I went to UF and doubted that the guy was a legitimate QB from Day One. But all he friggin does is prove people wrong. Surprisingly, Gator Nation was much more skeptical of Tebow than they ever were believers, until he proved everyone wrong… like way wrong.
I don’t need to ask Byron Leftwich, because over the course of his career, there was never any major attempt to fix his mechanics… as Tebow is trying to do now. Like I said, it’s completely possible to do it, because I did it. I used to throw between 3/4-sidearmed and kept throwing my arm out. So I switched to overhand. It just takes time and some work… something some guys are willing to do and some are not willing to do.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 21, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You know I was making a joke, right?
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Mar 21, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, yea
that wasn’t for you buddy
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Mar 22, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah dude. Will Nun is def a more accurate QB than Phil Rivers. The skills competition at Rivers’ camp proves it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFBvHe79Nnw
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Well, that was not what you said. You said that it was “impressive” not “interesting”. I guess you misspoke. And that’s ok. Even if you didn’t, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with you. Arm strength is not an exact science (I wish it were). Which is what makes ALL of this….interesting:)
I do not doubt that Tebow has the determination to change his motion. I may be wrong that it’s harder to change his style than the one you faced, but who really knows that answer. Neither of us are Tebow. But if I were a scout and I was evaluating Tebow, wouldn’t you have to ask him why he didn’t change his throwing motion last summer, if it were that easy? The coach basically came out in saying that they would alter the offense to do everything they could to improve his play into NFL ready. So I guess my reasoning stems for that. If it were easy, he would have changed it by now. No?
Got Tim Tebow??
The Bills pick Tim Tebow with their #1 Pick. He will be the franchice QB we have been looking for. He’s strong, tough, has character, great college QB, plays like a pro – all QB’s need a little work (some more or less) when they get to the pros. Of course, some never make it, AKA Ryan Leaf, etc. but I believe Tebow is along the lines of Jim Kelly. The man is an athlete……Sign him.
Love those Bills but we're tired of losing......
2nd round
If he’s available come Round 2, we do it. Not before that. Even if Tebow does become a great quarterback for us it will be one positional need for the Bills. IMO We should be wary of trading a package of other picks away for that chance or taking at 9.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
Well Tebow can't do much worse than a lot of our previous first round picks
I think Tebow will be a bust, but nobody knows for sure. Tebow was a very impressive college player, but then again so were JaMarcus Russel, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerfel etc… I’d probably be disappointed if we took him in the first, second or even third round, but he can’t do any worse than Mike Williams.
The only thing I don’t like about picking Tebow is that IMO, he won’t be able to help for at least a year or so. I’d like to get players in rounds 1-3 who can make an immediate impact
by billsfan4life on Mar 21, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Its a very unimpressive QB class IMO
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