MTD's Mocking Dan stops by to discuss the Bills' weekend
by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2010 2:15 PM EDT
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintThe greatest asset of SB Nation is the interconnectedness of the 250+ blogs on the network. SB Nation has blogs for each NFL team, and we use those tools frequently. The network is also home to over 70 college football blogs, and also boasts one site devoted entirely to the NFL's Annual Selection Meeting - Mocking the Draft. The editor of Mocking the Draft, Mocking Dan, and I recently discussed the Buffalo Bills' haul over the weekend. Here are his thoughts:
On Bills first-round pick C.J. Spiller:
C.J. Spiller was the most electric player in the draft. He's a playmaker on offense and special teams and he's a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Now, as far as he being a good value for Buffalo, that will be up to them. He's not really a gamble player. What they get out of Spiller is dependent on how much they get him the ball. With Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson, he may not get enough run attempts to warrant a top 10 pick. Best case: Chris Johnson. Worst case: Leon Washington.
On the Bills "reaching" for second-round pick Torell Troup:
I know calling someone a reach is relative directly to their opinion of the player. So I guess calling him a reach from Buffalo's point of view would be false. From my point of view, however, he was a reach. Troup is a nice player. He's a solid nose tackle who absolutely help in the run game. The problem I have with Troup is that he doesn't blow you away in any one area. He's just above-average to good in every area. I liked some other noses better than him. Best case: Ronald Fields Worst case: Ryan Sims.
On DE Alex Carrington and his transition to the NFL:
This should tell you something about Carrington: I guested on a radio show on Monday and I called Carrington the sleeper steal of the whole draft. He's really good as a power end and fits the 3-4 really well. I know it's a little hard to project players from the Sun Belt to the NFL, but Carrington is a real playmaker. Best case: Chris Canty. Worst case: Michael Haynes.
On the best thing about WR Marcus Easley:
The best thing about Easley is his combination of size and speed. The Bills don't really have that sort of wide receiver.
On his concerns regarding OT Ed Wang:
The biggest concern about Ed Wang is definitely his lack of physicality. As a former tight end, Wang is as athletic as you'd expect, but he's not a mauler. Remember what made Jason Peters so good for the Bills? To me, it was his power to be a force on the line. Wang doesn't have that.
On whether Levi Brown can be a successful NFL quarterback:
Based on his arm strength and leadership ability, yes, he can be successful. It might take him a couple of years, though, to transition from a wide-open spread to the NFL. He needs to work on some fundamental problems and throwing in the underneath area.
On offensive lineman Kyle Calloway and moving from tackle to guard:
This was one of my favorite picks of the draft. He's kind of the antithesis to Wang. He actually played some at guard at Iowa, so I think he could fit in fine there. His game is based on being physical at the point of attack and using his length. His footwork might force him inside. I think, if nothing else, he's an excellent depth option.
On the reported undrafted free agent signees:
Overall, this is one of my favorite UDFA groups this year. Wayne State's Joique Bell is one of my favorite running backs in the class. He's a good power runner, but I'm not sure how he'll get an opportunity with the Bills. Youngstown State's Donald Jones is a good big receiver who can be physical. He's not especially fast but has good hands. Naaman Roosevelt from Buffalo is a solid straight-line, fourth receiver type of player. I liked Georgia Tech's Cord Howard (T/G) as a zone blocker because of his athleticism and good first step. Antonio Coleman could be a good pass rush specialist and has as good of a chance of making the team as some of the players Buffalo drafted. He's a one-trick pony, but that one trick is a good one.
Thanks to Dan for taking the time to go through the Bills draft picks and UDFA signees. For draft information year-round, head to Mocking the Draft.
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Did he have any thoughts on Moats and Batten?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
He said all he knew about them were their measurables. He didn’t want to offer an opinion on people he wasn’t very familiat with.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard from somewhere else (ESPN I believe)
that they think Moats in the 6th round was the sleeper/steal of the draft.
"SO LETS GET ON IN THIS BUS cause this is the year we are coming to KICK SOME #$^u%*$% GODZILLA IS COMING BE READY" - abayarde
love him
to bad we are deeper at ILB than OLB
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
They list him at ILB right now, but I give it two week into training camp before they move him back to the outside.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 27, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
My thought is this:
If they keep Lynch like Nix says they will, I really think Jackson could be the odd man out in touches department.
Lynch, when healthy, can be a great running back and we all know Spillers potential. I really think Lynch/Spiller will the bulk of touches, and Jackson could just get short yardage/goal line carries.
What do you guys think?
"It took twenty five years to get there, and they did it in championship style" - Van Miller 1/20/91.
I think you’re flat-out wrong. Gailey’s going to put the best guys on the field, not the guys that could be good. That obviously and unequivocally favors Jackson over Lynch.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see a backfield that featured either Lynch or Jackson and Spiller. What the heck, why not all three!?!?
by #1 pick in '11 on Apr 27, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The Jets had a three headed monster last year, why can’t we have one too?
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 27, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Shonn
Greene only got carries after Leon broke his leg – look how many carries he had before that – about 2 per game. Thats from a team who lovers to run more than anyone else in the league. So I don’t see how there is enough carries for 3 guys.
Lets be real – best case we run 30 times or so a game (remember the games we get flogged in we’ll be lucky tio run 15 – 20 times) How do we get more than 10 touches per RB per game on average ?
Deal Fred or Marshawn for a 2011 or 2012 pick I say. There are no real 3 headed monsters in the NFL – people try to create them – JAX had Fred Taylor, Jones Drew and Greg Jones a few years back – everyone said – ooooh 3 headed monster – Greg Jones had like 10 carries all year. Last year they said it re the jets – if Leon doesnt break his leg then Greene gets like 20 carries on the year ! Believe me, I drafted Greene in a fantasy keeper – I know how little he did before Leons leg was broken.
I guess my point is – there is never enough carries for a 3 headed monster – the only time 3 guys get a lot of carries is when one of the primary ball carriers gets injured and the remaining 2 then get all the load. Surely we’re not wishing for that ?
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
I cannot believe
I used the word “like” so much – makes me sound “like” a 16 year old girl – D’oh !!!
:)
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
cj spiller
is just as much a receiving threat as he is a rushing threat…..
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
But so is Fred Jackson. The Bills have heavily involved the RBs in the passing attack these last two seasons, so Spiller’s recieving ability opens up additional touches for him, but not the RBs as a group.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
You're right, but...
I think that what he meant is that Spiller can be split out wide and used somewhat regularly from that position, whereas I wouldn’t be very comfortable if we were regularly having Jackson line up as a WR. I would think that using Spiller that way is the most common way we’ll get multiple RBs on the field at the same time.
by Future Considerations on Apr 27, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be every bit as comfortable with Jackson in the slot as I would with Spiller out there.
The Bills had over 80 catches from their RBs last year and that was one of the higher totals in the league. I can’t imagine they are able to find more than a touch or two per game more than they are already getting by adding catches, even if they give Spiller some time in the slot.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
if they split spiller out wide and keep jackson as more of a rushing threat
it not only diversifies the offense and gets spiller more touches, but also helps to alleviate the wear and tear on jackson. i would much rather have spiller split out wide than jackson. spiller for all intents and purposes could be a wr in this league….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 28, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Spiller returns 2 or 3 kicks/punts a game, catches 2 or 3 passes a game and runs it 5 times. Those are conservative estimates imo.
by #1 pick in '11 on Apr 27, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i would expect him to be more of a ST and recieving threat
this year more than anything
His rushing carries will increase overtime
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
I totally agree with you. 30 carries per game is even a pretty optimistic goal. Six teams had that many per game while run heavy offenses like Baltimore, the Giants, Jacksonville, Atlanta and Pittsburgh didn’t have that many. At least a few carries per game are QB sneaks on short yardage, taking a knee at the end of the game and scrambling when nobody is open too. I think a realistic number for RB carries per game is about 25 and there’s no way you can really use three backs in more than a specific niche.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Thanks,
and thats why I think if you can get something that helps you put together another piece of the rebuild (player at need position or a draft pick of substance – ie 4th or higher) then you go for it. Either that or you have 2 × 1st rounders and a guy on a decent contract extention all getting limited touches.
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
dallas three headed monster
everyone got carries because none of them could stay healthy.
There’s your hydra.
by oompaloompa on Apr 27, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that was my point
It only happens when 1 gets injured (or in that case all 3 rotate injuries) :)
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
Why are we only limited to two back team, I see enough carries, catches ( Spiller, Freddy).
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Apr 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Lynch can still be a good back in this league. IF Lynch shows up ready to play and has a great camp and pre-season, why wouldn’t he get carries? He has shown to be a decent reciever out of the backfield, and has great power when running. I love Jackson, don’t get me wrong, but we all know Lynch isn’t a slouch.
"It took twenty five years to get there, and they did it in championship style" - Van Miller 1/20/91.
by Michael_Necci on Apr 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Lynch wasn’t a slouch last year, either (nor was he injured…), and Jackson still out-performed him. If you recall, the first thing Dick Jauron did when Lynch got back from suspension was give the starting job back to Lynch. Jackson averaged 9.6 carries per game between Weeks 4 and 11. Then the team realized that Lynch was sucking, so they put Jackson back in, and he averaged 18.2 carries and 89 yards over the final six games.
That’s a pretty major if you outlined there. I think the chances are outstanding that Jackson continues to outperform Lynch on the football field.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I call bias. You own a Fred Jackson jersey, do you not?
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
A biased truth, perhaps.
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Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I also own Bruce Smith, Drew Bledsoe, Pat Williams, Willis McGahee and Paul Posluszny jerseys.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
McGahee? yuk – you are a true fan
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 27, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i still have my mcgahee jersey
along with lynch and schulz
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I got an old Lofton Jersey
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
My Leodis McKelvin jersey laughs at you all!
That was a good god-damn hockey season. :)
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub. Until I get the newsletter out, anyway.
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by UZ on Apr 27, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
How about
Bryce Paup…yep that’s right.
by WhiskeySierra6 on Apr 27, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I had one….
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
what?
no Elbert Dubenion #44 Jersey’s? shame on you guy’s. Golden Wheels, man! 93 yard TD against the Pats. Hell yeah! show some respect for one of the greatest Bills of all time.
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
I'm a proud owner of one also.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Apr 27, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
my uncle got me a bucky brooks rookie card for my birthday once.
strangely: it was in 2007.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
I got
Andre Reed jersey. I loved watching him okay growing up.
by The Irishman on Apr 27, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha.
yall aren’t hearing me. Andre Reed is a nice gift. Same with Spielman. I got a Bucky Brooks card like 15 years after we found out he was a bust.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
i was going to buy an oj simpson jersey, but all i got were these leather gloves and a pair of bruno maglis.
by quantumuprising on Apr 28, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, big spender!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Willis McGahee CJ SPiller jersey???? :-)
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Lynch is a strong straight ahead runner but is very bad if he has to juke and jive. He is a 1000 yard and far more runner easily with the Jets OL. Jackson seems to change direction effortlessly, necessary given the state of the Bills line..
Freddy had a lot of practice for a line like ours
when he was in Europe and indoor leagues
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Lynch
has a place at the goal line though – Jackson is a horrible goal line back – scores sweet FA TD’s. I know our line has not been sensational the past few years – however his TD production as a starter seems to be far inferior to Lynch.
That said, anywhere short of the opponents 10 yard line I prefer Jackson – thats sad comsidering where Lynch was drafted.
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
Not really
obviously and unequivocally
I still think, if Lynch clean up his off the field issues, not criminal activity, but moreover hiswork ethic, weight gain and football intelligence, then he is a better back than Jackson. However, Jackson is a great football player and teammate and shines in those areas, even if he has always lacked the top speed, good feet or overall agility.
Basically all I am saying is that I would wish Marshawn could live up to that potential, but for now, you have to think Lynch could be the odd man out… IF he doesn’t get back to top form
It is Brohm’s Bills jersey that is the least stained with doo-doo... GO BILLS
What exactly are his non-criminal off field issues relating to work ethic, weight gain and football intelligence?
I guess I can only speculate, but...
1. Being an adult in America, I am smart enough to know that what a person gets caught doing is usually only a fraction of what he is doing, good or bad. If Lynch is caught with weed, weapons and out partying on sinlge occasions, he is probably doing more of that at other times
2. He has gained upwards of 15 – 20lbs since coming to the NFL… where he came out at 210 and is now about 225, and while it was said that he was just “beefing”, this has translated negatively to the field.
3. With all his other issues, and his lack of production on the field, I can assume he is not taking his craft as seriously as he should be
It is Brohm’s Bills jersey that is the least stained with doo-doo... GO BILLS
by killascript on Apr 27, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
One of the most insightful posts/comments ever. Thanks killa.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Apr 27, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
…and rec’d.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Apr 27, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i would disagree only on the weight
i do not think that his weight had anything to do with his performance
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
in college he was slimmer and more explosive
now he doesn’t seem so much and his hesitant running this past season MAY have been due to a lack of explosiveness due to weight gain.
I know the line stank, but my argument is backed up by the fact that Jackson found ways to run and that I think Lynch is the better running back, IF he could slim down, get back to form and regain his explosiveness.
It is Brohm’s Bills jersey that is the least stained with doo-doo... GO BILLS
by killascript on Apr 27, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I boticed that about Lynch also
Seemed like he lost his quickness.
by The Irishman on Apr 27, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not ready to say that quite yet. Dude is 24 or 25, 2 years removed from a probowl year. Injuries happen (these are the Bills we are talking about) and I am excited about our 3 headed monster running attack. Now if only we could establish a passing game to keep the D honest……….
by #1 pick in '11 on Apr 27, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I didn’t mean exclusively. But his skillset helps them in those areas most. He’s never been the “break the big one” type of back.
Thou shall not drinketh thy KoolAid...
If he cuts his hair off, he’ll be a beast reborn. Look at what it did for Ricky Williams!
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
that should be required
it’s like putting uniforms on high school students
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Lynch will be gone
I’d keep him, but The Bills will send him out one way or another by training camp, he is not worth the poisoning of the locker room. Don’t forget, they signed a few other FAs. Fred will be #1, CJ #1A, and some other guys will earn carries while playing special teams.
I’m glad you have Lynch’s future planned out. I’m not so sure he or anyone else does.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually am leaning towards the opposite. They aren’t going to get anything for Lynch, so maybe trade the older more valuable Jackson and try to get Lynch back on track, and give Spiller more touches than he would with Jackson in there.
Well we tried the no offense huddle, why not give the no huddle offense a go?!!
I think trading Jackson is an unwise PR move, especially if in the process you keep Lynch.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
True
But 10 years out of the playoffs is also an unwise PR move. I think most people would be happy to unload anyone off this team if the pick we got for them helped the team get back to the playoffs. Lets be honest – in 2 years Fred will be washed up at RB – if value can be gottwen (Which I seriously doubt because everyone knows his age) then you make the deal.
bottom line – you do whats best for the team to make the playoffs (within reason – no signing complete thugs)
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
Marshawn gets into trouble off the field
but my understanding has been that his teammates like him, i wouldn’t expect him to poison the locker room. He seems like hes a pretty happy-go-lucky guy.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
I gotta agree with Mocking Dan about Toupe being a reach
You substitute Troupe with Terrence Cody, and my grade of the Bills draft goes from “D” to “C+”. Cody was an absolute monster in the games I watched of his. Even blocked like 2-3 field goal attempts! Just a game changer. But again, that’s my opinion.
That said, I am getting really excited to watch CJ Spiller play. We are pretty lucky to finally have a dynamic playmaker like that we get to watch for 16 games each year. And, I am warming to Carrington’s vast potential.
Brian, any insight on why they may have passed up Cody for Troupe?
Brian, any insight on why they may have passed up Cody for Troupe?
Because Cody is gigantic, can’t keep his weight in check, and Buffalo doesn’t have the type of locker room leadership to keep him accountable. Ray Lewis ain’t gonna let that dude eat himself out of the league. Same reason why JaMarcus Russell could have been an elite quarterback had he gone to a team that wasn’t the Raiders.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess that makes sense. I think I kinda knew that, but wanted to confirm
Thanks Brian, dwwhite190.
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
can’t keep his weight in check, and Buffalo doesn’t have the type of locker room
I thought you were going to say the locker room wasn’t big enough for him.
by south123 on Apr 27, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
same reason we released langston walker
just took up too much space in the locker room.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
by JPH on Apr 27, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would Russell have a chance to still be elite with a new start? Would he be anyone the Bills would have interest in?
Well we tried the no offense huddle, why not give the no huddle offense a go?!!
hes like 300 pounds now
i dont think hes coming back anytime soon….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s actually WORSE than the “bring in Bulger” idea!
That was a good god-damn hockey season. :)
I am the 1st and probably only official member of the David "Dr." Jones fanclub. Until I get the newsletter out, anyway.
Everyone's favorite Buffalo Rumblings Anti-Tebow blowhard!
by UZ on Apr 27, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitz...
is more accurate than Russell?
Have you seen him play? YIKES!
But he's more accurate, IMO.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Apr 27, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
it's harder for him to overthrow people by as much, since he has no arm.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
I think Cody has more upside than troup and could end up being the better player of the two. But Cody’s “character” probably deterred the Bills. With a young, inexperienced team without a lot of veteran leadership to light a fire under his butt, Cody probably didn’t seem like the right fit. i can’t remember who exactly said it but Cody’s a great fit in B-more where if he isn’t motivated to play hard, Ray Lewis will have something to say about it
Cody is a slob of a man. I’ll be interested to see if Ray can keep him motivated. NFL paychecks can buy a lot of twinkies
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
i felt embarrassed for the dude when he fought minut bol in one of those celebrity boxing matches on FOX. Bol was fighting for charity, fridge really needed the money. They guy could barely climb in the ring without getting winded.
by oompaloompa on Apr 27, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you think cody was so much more dominate that troupe?
besides a terrible kicker on the Tennessee team (both kicks would have barely cleared the line, no matter who was standing there), cody didnt do anything all that spectacular. couldnt stay on the field, missed two games, and wasnt the focal point of the defense. troup on the other hand didnt miss a game, was the star on the defense (which mean more double teams and game planning around him) put up the same type of number (better in sacks) and has tremendous upside and work ethic….
i think troup was the 2nd NT in this draft, and cody will eat his way out of the league even with ray lewis watching…
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
ahhh
i meant troup…..
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest, I've never watched Troupe play.
But from what I have seen from Cody, I have seen a dominate, space eater. I guess maybe I didn’t watch the same games you were watching, except of course the game where he blocked those 2 field goals.
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda like a Big Ted Williams type of guy in the middle.
Maybe I’m biased in my affection for Cody, since I loved Ted Williams and thought he was incredible. Not so much in what kind of stats he actually put up, but how massive he was and how many blockers he could block, therefore allowing the LBs to make plays. Could see Cody as being similar.
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
cody really wasnt all that good though
he was just another piece on a really good defense. my point is troup made all of those plays without anyone really helping him. troup still found a way to work hard and get his numbers….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Opps, sorry about the length of that....didn't realize it got so long.
My bad
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It actually got flagged, too – any comment that contains more than 5 links is automatically flagged. It’s also fairly obvious that you copied that straight from Wikipedia. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Which, had I read the top of your comment, would have been even more obvious, as you disclosed it was from Wikipedia. /footmouth
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
So can cut and paste sentences even if I give the website credit?
Or do I have to link as well? I apologize for breaking any rules. Didn’t mean to. Just clear it up for me here once, and I won’t do it again. Thanks Brian!
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
In theory, Wikipedia is free reign as long as you cite it.
If it was another site, copying and pasting that much would be over the line. Most writers ask that you drive traffic to their site by linking to it like I do in Web Rumblings. Provide a small snippet that makes people go to that person’s website.
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by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the dude has a long hard road ahead of him in the NFL. Maybe even a short hard road. His ability to get into sustainable NFL condition is the big question, IMO. Based on work ethic alone, Troup is a safer pick.
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
I think the dude has a long hard road ahead of him in the NFL. Maybe even a short hard road.
Cue the Wood, Wang, Levitre jokes.
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by thefourwinds on Apr 27, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The Splendid Splinter?
…or did you mean Ted Washington?
Illinois: My governor is a bigger crook than your governor
Yeah, Ted Williams could clog the middle,.....
and also hit 400 for the Red Sox in 1941. Who are you talking about?
Because
Troupe can be a 3 down NT whereas Cody will only ever be a 2 down NT who plays 50% of snaps max. We simply could not afford 2 draft picks in highish positions on that one spot considering all of the holes we have. Troupe “potentially” fills the postition completely with just 1 pick.
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just freakin dandy !
Or possibly the Bills simply wanted to draft a football player in Troup
And not a Ginormous Fat a**
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
The last thing we need is guys who think they are better than they are....
Leads to complacency and they would not be pushed if they were handed a starting job. If the work ethic of these draft picks and UDFA’s is higher than other more highly sought after picks then i will take what we got. Above average talent with great work ethic, to me is better than Great talent with no or poor work ethic.
by MikeEverett08 on Apr 27, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem i’d have is that Cody was good in college. I’d hope that GMs and organizations as a whole aren’t apt to snap judgement about a player in the same way many fans are. To be scared of a guy because he’s a potential King Hippo won’t ever allow them to see the enormous potential in their game.
I understand what Brian says, and it’s probably best that Cody isn’t here with this regime. To say he’s not a better prospect than Troup would be a dangerous debate. If he can do well in another organization, perhaps the organization who can’t shoulder him should look into the mirror and ask why/how can we make these guys work? Why do we always have to pass over?
It’s just confusing to me, the pick of Troup. I don’t hate him, especially because he is a NT and they need talent, but was he the best player available? Nope. Apparently he was the best player available to them and that, to me, has been the cog in the system for the last 10 years. This team takes players that fit their scheme better, instead of looking for playmakers.
Spiller was out of left field and was BPA (to some…to them at least, and to me after some time to think on it). Then they went and confused me even more.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
. Apparently he was the best player available to them and that, to me, has been the cog in the system for the last 10 years
yes – and you can say that about every single other franchise in the NFL. When guys like Cody and Clausen fall it’s becuase the people who do the actual work have a much better idea than all of us MMQB’s who think we have any idea how a player will translate.
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 27, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh i’m not saying I have a better idea who will succeed in the league. In my observation there have been HUGE misses on the part of this organization, and in doing so, they passed players other teams seemed to have rated much higher.
There’s something different about that front office, that’s all i’m saying.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
"This team takes players that fit their scheme better, instead of looking for playmakers."
I agree with this.
John McCargo was a great example of a guy drafted (probably over “higher rated” DTs) because he fit some sort of scheme. Larry Tripplet an example of a player acquisition that fit in our scheme.
Guys like Whitner, Poz, Lynch, ect….these are all just solid football players, but not at all playmakers. Thank God Byrd turned out to be a playmaker.
But, I guess we can’t yet paint Buddy Nix as such, since those guys were all drafted previously. CJ Spiller sure looks like a playmaker. So I’d say that is one hell of a start.
But that point does have some relevance….especially to guys drafted in previous years (previous to 2009)
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
“This team takes players that fit their scheme better, instead of looking for playmakers.” I agree with this.
I whole- heartedly disagree with this. This is the exact reason why we are int his place to begin with. Instead of taking impact players we take BPA NEED – which doesn’t work well at all as we can see.
John McCargo was a great example of a guy drafted (probably over "higher rated" DTs) because he fit some sort of scheme
this is another great example of drafting for need instead of taking the best player available. The reason we took McCargo was because we thought he was the best DT available and traded up to get him because we needed to fill a need.
Troup – per Nix’s press conference – said he had Troup rated higher than what they took him.
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 27, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry but I just can’t believe that they thought he was the best DT available. I think they panicked and felt they had to move back and grab him before their options became worse.
Please don’t tell me they thought John McCargo was the best DT. I hope, in this case, you’re wrong about it. It hurts thinking about this. Make it stop!
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry but I just can’t believe that they thought he was the best DT available
straight from the horses mouth Afghan – don’t know what else to tell you…..
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 27, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
what scheme did McCargo fit? Was he a high effort, high character player? Not being rhetorical, asking because I don’t know.
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
McCargo
As far as I can tell was looked at as a guy who could take on 2 defenders. I remember seeing him play down here at NC State, and that line with McCargo, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and I forget the other guy, was beastly, and a lot of that was due to McCargos ability to take on 2 defenders, and free up the other guys.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I didn't think he was a guy to take up multiple blockers at all.
Hey, but I’ve been wrong before, that’s for sure. Maybe we can get a ruling on this somehow?
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
McCargo
Is/Was crazy strong for his size.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
we took him because we had a glaring need at DT and they had him rated as the best DT left so they traded up for him.
Ngata and Bunkley both went off the boards and Levy panicked (as far as i’m concerned).
I swear – Levy was the worst thing to happen to this franchise since either Donahoe or Polian being fired
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 27, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought McCargo was taken because he was a lighter (relative to other DTs)
quicker NT who could penetrate through gaps….not a big, clogging, run stuffing, DT. Right?
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Heres some scouting on McCargo
This unheralded athlete played in the shadows of pass rushing terrors Mario Williams and Manny Watson on the Wolfpack’s defensive line. Both of the team’s defensive ends credit much of their success at getting to the quarterback to McCargo’s ability to handle double- and even triple-team action in the middle of the field
Positives: Has a good blend of power and quickness coming off the snap and could be a disruptive force when he drops his weight and stays low in his pads to shoot the gaps … Quick-twitch type who can gain an immediate advantage and get into the backfield … Has the pursuit speed to chase down ball carriers along the perimeter … Keeps his knees bent and hands active in attempts to stack and control blockers … Good hustler coming off the back side and a physical hitter who wraps with a firm grip … Used on stunts and twists because of his sudden burst … Despite his size, he is effective vs. double teams, but only when he keeps his hands active … Generates good explosion when he stays low in his pads … Tough to move out of the gaps due to his low center of gravity.
McCargo is an undersized athlete with adequate bulk, but has good upper body strength and above average quickness for his position. He is a quick-twitch performer who can gain an immediate advantage coming off the snap. He is a disruptive force with a knack for shooting the gaps, but lacks pass rush moves to get to the quarterback on a consistent basis. What makes him effective vs. larger blockers is his ability to keep his pad level low, but he tends to get high in his stance when giving pursuit.
Link: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/draft/426185
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Thanks for the info, mob.
I would say it’s kinda in between. The scouting report clearly states he took up 2, even 3 blockers in college. But it also says he is undersized, adequate bulk, above average quickness, shooting gaps, ect. I guess I took that more to mean he fit Jauron’s undersized defensive line type model. That’s why I thought he was more a “system” pick, than a big fat run stuffer.
by StroudFanClub on Apr 27, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite was when they said he was undersized, then they said he needed to drop weight. lol
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Can anyone recall...
when Chris Johnson was drafted? The uproar it caused since Tenn. didn’t need a RB, it needed a WR. How did that work out?
I suspect that the Bills felt Troupe had more upside than players on the board. Also his character and work ethic, come into play. Only way to tell is when the season starts.
As for the rest of the draft, having good quality talent to create competition is mandatory. And Depth. Solid draft.
Johnson was drafted #24 overall. He was considered a 2nd rounder at draft time; prior to his insane 40 time at the combine he was a 2nd-3rd rounder. The concern was whether his speed/vision/instincts would translate to the NFL since he played at ECU. Titans fans were pretty upset since they had drafted LenDale White and Chris Henry at RB in consecutive years.
by Jeff Winters on Apr 27, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Now they're happier then ever, could be the Bills.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Apr 27, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Tennessee had already invested a top 5 pick in a QB, had a good LT and OL in general and had a good pass rush when they took Johnson. Buffalo has none of those things.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Apr 27, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so let’s compound the problem by taking guys that are reaches or don’t grade out like we (fans) want them to
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 28, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Good article.
My favorite line of the entire peice is on CJ Spiller.
Best case: Chris Johnson. Worst case: Leon Washington
I’d be extremely happy with either! Ok I’d be MUCH happier with Johnson, but we all saw how dinamic of a weapon Leon Washington can be too.
I must admit I’m warming to Spiller. I still think that it was a horrible pick, all things considered. But if he can turn into one of the premier back of the league then I’ll be happy to take back everything bad that I’ve said.
The more I see, the less I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 27, 2010 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
CJ Spiller - Short term gain is what we need
Lets face it, we have not been in the playoffs in a LONG time. If he can help us make it once, I’d be happy. If we can build momentum and make it once, than maybe we can make it more often. I am not too worried about a 6 year RB vs a 10 year LT right now, as I don’t expect Ralph to live to 101, and I know there is a good chance the team moves when he passes.
Leon Washington would be a horrible product out of a top ten pick. The guy wasn’t utilized very well very often in NY. Spiller simply must be used with greater frequency, for my tastes anyway.
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Song recommendation of the week: Queens of the Stone Age - Feel Good Hit of the Summer
"All I care about is Mega-Desk. That is all I care about. Getting. More. Mega-Desk." - Dwight Schrute
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Still, as a worst case that’s certainly not bad.
That was a good god-damn hockey season. :)
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by UZ on Apr 27, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saw a stat on ESPN…other than first rounders, more Undrafted FAs start a game their first season than any other round.
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by BillsNYC on Apr 27, 2010 4:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think that’s a numbers play. Only 32 players per round and roughly 300 or so UDFA’s.
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
still
It shows just how much talent there is and the draft isn’t the be all end all like some experts would have you believe.
"We've got to show you the baby, and the baby is winning." -BUDDY NIX
by S2 on Apr 27, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
not really. If 100% of drafted players turned into starters, only 11% of UDFA’s would have to start, in order to exceed that number. The odds are clearly stacked in favor of the UDFA’s
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
still
they are talented…
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Apr 27, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the “Troup was on top of Buffalo’s board, so it’s not a reach” arguments are weak. Obviously, Buffalo thinks they are doing the right thing. But I didn’t see many people use that as an excuse when Dick Jauron punted the ball down two scores with 5 minutes left in the game. He thought he was doing the right thing too.
I also don’t get the Cody is a fat blob argument. After having watched them both play, I think Cody is actually more athletic than Troup is. I think he moves earlier off the snap, I think he’s more nimble on his feet. He’s a more flexible athlete. Pat Williams is a fat slob. Vince Wilfork is a fat slob. Why are we holding that against Cody? Isn’t a huge immovable object exactly what Bills fans wanted? I didn’t think Troup was a dominant force and the game I scouted him was his bowl game against Rutgers where the Jersey Knights struggled to run the ball and Troup had one of his best statistical performances of the year. I didn’t see enough ability to push the interior and I thought he could be shielded out of the play. Good player, but I gave him a solid 3rd round grade as a nice, but not necessarily ideal 3rd round option. I thought Cody was a dominant presence in the middle against SEC offensive lines. His power game and light-ish feet moved lineman around at Cody’s will. I’ll be surprised if Cody isn’t a better NFL player than Troup despite the difference in intangibles.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Apr 27, 2010 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i see your points
<blockquote But I didn’t see many people use that as an excuse when Dick Jauron punted the ball down two scores with 5 minutes left in the game. >
The difference here is that I believe I understand fundamental football strategy and Buffalo’s defensive capabilities. I don’t pretend to be a scout, and I don’t think anyone else here is. Obviously, I’m not an NFL coach either, but projecting players is orders of magnitude more difficult than the decision whether or not to go for it on fourth down.
I totally agree with you on Cody. My other problem with that is the “we don’t have the lockerroom to deal with him” argument. That’s probably true, but what the hell, Dick and Marv? I thought the whole idea of that group was that they were bringing in high character guys… If Chris Kelsay isn’t a good enough locker room presence to deal with a super-talented but lazy young player, then what exactly does he do that keeps him on the roster?
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
Kelsay has the right work ethic and whatnot a young player should look up to, but he doesn’t have the superstar personality and force of will to affect a young player. For instance, Cody comes to Buffalo and goes “Who the eff is Chris Kelsay, what has he done in this league, and why should I listen to him?” Cody goes to Baltimore and thinks, “OMG Ray Lewis will eat the flesh from my belly if I don’t run more sprints and he might have killed a dude!”
by Jeff Winters on Apr 27, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
right.
so his work ethic only matters to the good kids, the ones who already have a good work ethic.
That’s why I’m tired of these high-character guys who stink. Ray Lewis probably killed somebody, but there’s nobody you’d rather have in the lockeroom, because he works hard, and he’s goddamn good. And more because he’s good than because he works hard.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
I totally agree on the leadership part. If Kelsay, Schobel, Kawika Micthell, Whitner, Dwan Edwards, Stroud, Poz, McGee and the rest of the D can’t keep on a 2nd round pick about something as simple as staying in decent enough shape to play 50% of a game, then the Bills might as well quit now and completely start from scratch.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Apr 28, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i. however
am of the different opinion, one where i dont think even ray lewis will keep cody from being a fat slob. so i dont think cody is a good pick….period
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Apr 28, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
then the Bills might as well quit now and completely start from scratch.
i would say, obviously, that that is exactly what they are doing
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Apr 28, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
100% agree with everything Kaiser just wrote here. I'm SFC....And I endorse this message!
Great post, Rec’d!
Side note, I think I will be watching more college games next year too. I really envy your knowledge on these draft prospect. From the few games I’ve watched, I know Cody is better, but to be able to be that much more knowledgable would be awesome.
by StroudFanClub on Apr 28, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Sooner or later either Fred or likely Marshawn will be traded because C.J. is just a dynamic football player. If Marshawn shows up with the same laid back attitude that he showed last year, then I expect him to be traded because in that role he has ZERO value to the team. The problem is we didn’t trade for some reason and now we’re stuck with him. My suggestion: Just give the ball to C.J. and ignore Fred and Marshawn
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Apr 28, 2010 2:45 AM EDT reply actions
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