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State of the Bills Roster: Outside Linebacker

Transitioning from the 4-3 defense to the 3-4 defense is one of the most difficult adjustments to make at the NFL level. Different types of players are needed just about across the board in the front seven; the responsibilities of defensive linemen, outside linebackers and inside linebackers differ greatly from scheme to scheme.

The Buffalo Bills are in the midst of this exact transition. Dick Jauron and Perry Fewell brought a zone-based 4-3 emphasizing lighter, quicker players in the front seven to Buffalo in 2006, and many of those lighter, quicker players are now looking at rather massive responsibility shifts. The Bills spent their off-season attempting to get bigger along the defensive line, but those efforts did not allow for much change at outside linebacker.

After the jump, we'll take a look at the six players currently employed by the Bills that the team plans to use at outside linebacker. These are very talented players across the board, but that doesn't mean that this isn't a position riddled with question marks across the board, either. Buffalo may not enter the 2010 regular season with two set starters at this position, and that's cause for concern.

Star-divide

Positional Responsibilities
Jeff Winters, one of our staff writers here at Rumblings, does a nice job explaining the responsibilities of the two outside linebacker positions in this post. The short version is as follows: the defense will feature a left outside 'backer (LOLB) and a right outside 'backer (ROLB). Both positions will be asked to rush the passer most of the time, and both positions will be asked to cover backs and tight ends and set the edge against the run as well. The biggest point of differentiation between the two is that the LOLB traditionally lines up on the strong side of the offensive formation, meaning that he'll need to both deal with more blockers (tight end and/or fullback) and be able to match up with those players in coverage. The ROLB will spend a bit more time one-on-one and in open space.

Personnel Breakdown
Don't read anything into the order in which players appear below - they appear based purely on level of NFL game experience, and nothing more.

94 - Aaron Schobel. Currently considering retirement, Schobel - who will turn 33 years old on September 1 - represents the breaking point between "this position is just deep enough to be interesting" and "this position is going to be a hot mess." Quite easily the team's best pass rusher, Schobel would line up primarily at ROLB should he decide to play to emphasize that skill set. He is capable of playing either OLB position, but given his career status, he is much better suited to rushing the passer as frequently as possible, as opposed to playing on the tight end side. He is the only player on this list that would be an every-down player; that is, he's the only player that would come off the field only when in need of a break.

90 - Chris Kelsay. Of all Bills defenders in the front seven, Kelsay might be the poorest fit for the 3-4. Athletically, he's ideally suited to play the position he's played his entire career - left defensive end in a 4-3 alignment. He does not possess the quickness or fluidity in space to adequately cover tight ends and backs on a consistent basis. What Kelsay does bring to the table, however, is the capability to defend the run physically; no one else on this list comes close to Kelsay in that regard. Kelsay's best fit in this defense is as a run-defending LOLB that would come off the field on obvious passing situations.

58 - Aaron Maybin. The biggest criticism facing Maybin as a rookie was his slight frame and inability to hold up well at the point of attack. The latter point will still be an issue for Maybin in this defense, but the frame won't - he is ideally built to play OLB in a 3-4, possessing the length and quickness to eventually be a devastating force in this scheme. Maybin's forte is rushing the passer, and though he gives great effort against the run, he's much better suited to playing ROLB, where he won't have to deal with multiple blockers as frequently. Maybin has enough straight-line speed, however, to eventually match up with tight ends, as well. He'll need a lot of coaching to become an elite all-around OLB prospect, but for now, he's got a shot to make a mark as a pass rushing specialist.

93 - Chris Ellis. I'm not sure what to make of Ellis, as he's played so sparingly in his first two NFL seasons that it's hard to make out exactly what he is and isn't good at. Like Kelsay, I believe Ellis' best professional position fit is as a 4-3 left end; in this particular scheme, I think his best chance of sticking will be at LOLB. He is the biggest player on this list at 261 pounds, and that extra bulk should help him on the strong side of the offensive alignment. He never struck me as a great point-of-attack player at Virginia Tech, however, and he might get a look at a pass-rusher at ROLB, too.

57 - Danny Batten. I'm bullish on Batten, mainly because he's a scrappy player and the best pure athlete on this list. He's explosive off the snap, has solid straight-line speed, isn't afraid to mix it up at all, and could theoretically help the Bills on both sides of the alignment. But that's all down-the-line talk; Batten must first adjust to making the leap from South Dakota State to NFL football. He'll be a specialist to start, but long-term, he has a real chance to emerge as a starter at either ROLB or LOLB in this scheme.

59 - Antonio Coleman. Arguably the most recognizable undrafted free agent name brought in by the Bills this year, Coleman was a productive player in the SEC that has a shot at making the back end of this roster. A high-effort player, I'm not completely sold that Coleman is explosive enough as a pass rusher to play outside in this scheme. I actually like him better as an inside linebacker; in fact, if the Bills were to swap Coleman inside and let sixth-round pick Arthur Moats try his hand on the edge, I'd be much more comfortable with the Bills' linebacker depth. Coleman can run and works very hard, and he's clearly a best-fit at ROLB in this scheme - his potential in coverage is minimal.

Contract Situations
Schobel's got four years and $29.53 million remaining on his mega-deal. Kelsay will be a free agent after this season; he's already been paid a $500,000 roster bonus, and will make $3.7 million this season. Maybin's got four years remaining on his rookie deal; that deal averages about $3.5 million per season, and he'll also have access to about $7.4 million in incentives. Ellis is under contract for two more years at just over $1 million in total. Batten, a sixth-round rookie, will probably get a four-year deal. Coleman, an undrafted rookie free agent, has signed a multi-year deal, most likely for three years (but we aren't confirming that).

2010 Forecast
I've got about as much of an idea as to whether or not Schobel will play as Buffalo's coaching staff does, so rather than make a prediction regarding his playing status, I'll simply outline two scenarios below.

If Schobel plays: Schobel lines up at ROLB. Kelsay gets early-down reps at LOLB, and is spelled by Maybin for coverage and pass-rushing downs. The other three players might not see much playing time at all.

If Schobel retires: Maybin becomes the full-time starter at ROLB; cross your fingers he's ready for that responsibility. Kelsay is the starter at LOLB, and Batten becomes the swing rotational player between both positions. Ellis and Coleman become much more viable options for the final roster.

My Prediction
I don't think Schobel is going to play, though I'd be happy to be wrong about that one. If I am, however, correct, then I think that all five of the names listed below Schobel on the OLB depth chart stand an excellent shot of making the team. There are simply too many question marks personnel-wise after Schobel, so the Bills will need to be highly specialized in the event he's not with the team. They'll keep all five players and possibly use four or all five of them in different sub-package looks, with Maybin, Batten and Coleman the pass-rush candidates, and Kelsay and Ellis the early favorites for run-defending duties. If Schobel doesn't play, this position will very much be a work in progress, much like the rest of the roster. If Schobel decides to give it one more go, however, this positional mix becomes one of the most intriguing units on the roster.

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Batten must first adjust to making the leap from San Diego State to NFL football.

?

Thought it was South Dakota, not San Diego.

Go Rockies! First and only member of the Manuel Corpas fanclub right here! :/
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by UZ on May 11, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Dammit, I do that every time, and I have no idea why. Thanks

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, to be fair, I never see the initials “SD” and immediately think of South Dakota either.

Go Rockies! First and only member of the Manuel Corpas fanclub right here! :/
Everyone's favorite Buffalo Rumblings Anti-Tebow blowhard!
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde

by UZ on May 11, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Teams are going to isolate these in coverage all day long

Schobel, Kelsay, Ellis, Maybin, whomever….If I’m on the opposition and I see Kelsay lined up at LOLB, I’m audibling every single time to try to get him in coverage.

The lack of experience is one thing here, but the overall lack of athleticism is what is really going to kill this unit this year. Oh, and the lack of pass rushers. I’m just hoping they can be a mediocre unit that doesn’t get exposed routinely.

I still don’t fully understand why Moats is being moved inside. He’s quick and agile, with solid pass rushing skills. With so few options at the position already, you’d think they’d be starting him out on the outside at the very least…..

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on May 11, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

If I’m on the opposition and I see Kelsay lined up at LOLB, I’m audibling every single time to try to get him in coverage.

Well yeah but you’re bias :)

Go Rockies! First and only member of the Manuel Corpas fanclub right here! :/
Everyone's favorite Buffalo Rumblings Anti-Tebow blowhard!
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde

by UZ on May 11, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well yeah but you’re bias :)

He’s really not though. Can you imagine Kelsay trying to cover someone like Darren Sproles or Kevin Faulk? What about a TE like Dustin Keller? Kelsay won’t man-up on these guys, but quick receivers will make Kelsay’s life a nightmare in a zone.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still don’t fully understand why Moats is being moved inside.

Length. He’s short (6’0") with short arms and legs. You’ve gotta have a little length to play outside, and if you lack it, you better be a brutally powerful player in the mold of James Harrison.

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes that is true

But I guess I’m hoping that he won’t solely be an ILB for us. Anybody with any pass rush skills needs to be given a shot on the outside, IMO.

Plus, he seems like he’s more in the mold of Poz on the inside. We do need the depth there, but I’m hoping Moats is a jack of all trades LB for this defense.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on May 11, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with that. He seems to be a better ILB fit, but if he can ball at the OLB position, he should get a shot. Its not like we’re set at that position at all.

"Ok, its Gudda hoe, all about my Bills like Buffalo."

by bflo on May 11, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

tedy bruschi made the switch from college DE to 3-4 ILB, hopefully he has half the career bruschi did

by theimmortalbenard on May 11, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Moats will force his way into pass rush opportunities. He reminds me a bit of Elvis Dumervil in that he’s a short guy with a lot of pass rush ability. The Broncos scheme away Dumervil’s weaknesses on regular downs, and then unleash him to pass rush. With the increased size in most OTs, smaller pass rushers can create leverage and get underneath the big OTs—effectively putting them on roller skates.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

In that comparison

I believe Dumervil has roughly 25 lbs on Moats. That added bulk and pure strength is somethings Moats will need to develop in time if he is to be used similarly. I’m just hoping for a purely situational rusher out of Moats….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on May 11, 2010 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t think you’re going to get your wish, K.

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I saw Dumervil at 248 lbs., and Moats at 246. In addition, Moats has longer arms by my cursory internet search. Despite the Bills moving Moats inside, I think he had the athleticism, leverage, and ability to pass rush rather effectively for us.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schobel at OLB? At $7M/year?

I don’t think he can keep up with RB’s or TE’s on his side. The Bills have occasionally dropped him in zone blitz coverage over the years and he looks totally lost there. The Bills are going to have to rotate support coverage to his side. You’re big on CJ Spiller, can you picture a 1-1 matchup in space with Schobel?

by Rick A on May 11, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Thats how I feel about Schobel (and Kelsey) as well… He cant cover RB’s out of the backfield, unless The Bus is making a comeback… or the athletic TE’s we have in the AFCE.

I think OLB is going to the the biggest problem in Buffalo. Even more of a problem than OT and QB. At least at those positions we have QB’s playing QB and OT’s playing OT. We really dont have a 3-4 OLB on this roster. Maybin probably has a better year than last year… but its not like he set the bar too high. I would love if he came in and played awesome in the 3-4… I think he can. We need players to come in and suprise, whether that be Ellis, Coleman, Batten or maybe even Mitchell…

"Ok, its Gudda hoe, all about my Bills like Buffalo."

by bflo on May 11, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ideally Schobel won’t have to deal with many TEs or RBs. You’d put him outside and let him rush almost every down. He’ll be in isolation against an OT primarily.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

In practice, opposing offensive coordinators will exploit this. The TE will line up on his side. RB’s will flare out, forcing ILB coverage. With Schobel lining up even further outside, you’re counting on coverage holding longer for pressure to get to the QB, maybe that’s part of the thinking given the Bills good secondary.

by Rick A on May 11, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh they’ll certainly take advantage of it; that’s why Schobel is best at ROLB which will minimize the amount of times he gets lined up over a TE because most offenses are right-handed.

Sadly, we don’t have very many good options at OLB. All of our converted DEs (Schobel, Kelsay, Ellis) will be relatively easy to take advantage of in coverage. I’m actually semi-optimistic that Ellis has been misplaced scheme-wise and becomes a decent LOLB, or at least a backup there. I think you’ll see an infusion of talent at OLB next off-season unless Maybin/Batten look better than anticipated.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

if Schobel retires

I think I’d rather go Maybin and Chris Ellis with a majority of snaps than Chris Kelsay and Maybin. I just dont see how Kelsay can be anything but a major detriment on every single snap hes in at OLB. Thats not a knock against Kelsay, hes just not a fit. I know Ellis hasnt done anything but he was a third round pick three years ago and if we’re going to let Hardy and Stevie J get a shot to see what they got I’d like to do the same with Ellis than put in Kelsay who isnt a fit at all for the scheme and is going to walk away next year anyway. The thing that Kelsay does bring is you know hes going to work as hard as he can to learn and be effective in the scheme and we dont know about Ellis’ work ethic. But just because Kelsay is willing to work doesnt mean he will be able to make it happen on the field.

If Schobel retires, I do think we will trade for Merriman who wants out of San Diego.

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"

by poz on May 11, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

That's a lot of "Kelsays" in there

Haha, makes me chuckle.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on May 11, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully you see ‘Kelsey’ in that paragraph more than you see him starting at OLB this year. lol

"Ok, its Gudda hoe, all about my Bills like Buffalo."

by bflo on May 11, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

hhahahaha

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"

by poz on May 11, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unrelated. He was always going to sell and base his family out of Texas whether he played or not.

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s going all out bachelor pad if he comes back. Posters of scantily clad females, tiki bar, video game chair… the works.

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by MattRichWarren on May 11, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

At $7M per year, that’s gonna be a hell of a bachelor pad.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on May 13, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tough year ahead

Whether Schobel comes back or not, i think its going to be a tough year for our outside LB’s. Ones old and un-atheltic, the other one im pretty sure is a bust by now, the other two or un-athletic

by Marcus Talley on May 11, 2010 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

why is Maybin a bust?

its been one year.

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"

by poz on May 11, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

the other one im pretty sure is a bust by now

By now? Since when is there a one-year line drawn between NFL player and bust on 21-year-old kids?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of my pet peeves in the NFL is how draft picks are busts after one year. If that was the case back in the 80s/90s, do you realize how many players would have been considered “busts”? These draft picks are 21-22 years old; it takes time to develop the vast majority of them.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Maybin is a bust after just one year in the league when he worked with a coaching staf that almost refused to put him on the feild? Dude really?

The more I see, the less I know.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 11, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people called mario williams a bust after his first year…

Life is a garden, dig it - Joe Dirt

by Superduff on May 11, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Don’t think that’s what he was saying.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, they arent the same player…but just because someone doesnt make a splash in their first year in the league, doesnt mean they arent capable of doing so

Life is a garden, dig it - Joe Dirt

by Superduff on May 11, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey I love Aaron Maybin and think he is going to have an outstanding year

I feel this is exactly what he needed, the ability to have O Lineman guessing whether or not hes going to come hard on the rush or float back in pass coverage. It helps him because they will never know I think you will see alot of Aaron Maybin blitzing on first down

by PaullyPforPrez on May 11, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that I didn’t list him in this post should be all you need to know. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey look at James Harrison

When the Steelers signed this old UDFA, he was strickly a pass rusher and he had the longest interception returned for touchdown in the Superbowl, I agree with Kurupt if I am a good QB I audible to get Kelsay in coverage all day, But I wont be surprised to see that Edwards, sends Kelsay and whoever in on the right side so that we are rushing 5 instead of 3 or 4, this is where I feel the 3-4 helps us we can rush two Defensive ends who have expierence getting to the QB our two inside backers pick up the tight end and running back if they dont stay back. This is the huge benefit to the 3-4 more rushing options and this is why I believe they switched you can overload blitz you can send two up the middle this is where Kawika is most effective, and Brian I belive Kawika will see some time at OLB, he is strong enough and is crafty enough to play outside.

by PaullyPforPrez on May 11, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think you’ll see Kawika outside unless we’re Lindsay Lohan-desperate (and don’t discount that happening). We just have better athletes and options.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, everybody on this list save Kelsay and possibly Ellis, for starters. Yes, that includes Schobel.

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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You saying Kawika is not as athlletic as these defensive ends

Kawika has been a very solid NFL starter for 3 teams, and I believe he has some of the best “blitzing skills” on the bills.

by PaullyPforPrez on May 11, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

See below about blitzing vs. pass rushing. They’re not the same thing.

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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. I think you’ll see Batten and Coleman—even as rookies—outside before you do Kawika. I know Mitchell is a strong blitzer and whatnot, but OLB doesn’t play to his strengths.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

What needs to be re-iterated here is that being a successful blitzer does not equate to being a successful pass rusher. Blitzes are scheme-based. Pass rush is skill-based. Jeff, you used the example of Adalius Thomas – the reason he was so good in Baltimore is because he was used as a blitzer, and the reason he stunk so thoroughly in New England is because their OLBs aren’t used as blitzers.

Buffalo’s OLBs will not be blitzers. That is why Kawika won’t play outside.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

dont necessarily agree

They blitz from OLB just as much as they rush the passer from OLB, when you switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 you are essentially changing the way you attack whether it be a blitz or russing the passer, even rushing the passer is schemed based when you think about it sending that 4th guy doesnt always have to be form the OLB it could be a safety or a ILB that doesnt necessarily make it a blitz, a blitz means you either go into a zone base for the rest of the field to be covered or a man base for the rest of the field. Russing the passer doesnt always have to be the OLB. Maybe we are arguing to make the same point I dunno just the way you worded it.

by PaullyPforPrez on May 11, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. Adalius Thomas is the perfect example of the fact that not all 3-4 schemes are similar and a successful player in the Jets’ 3-4 may not have the skill set necessary to excel in the Bills’ 3-4.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I believe you will see alot of Man coverage with the Bills kinda like the Jets with Revis but you will see Byrd floating where Leonard is up nere the Line, Making guys like Pally P and Kawika more of pass defending backers in man coverage, also the Jets overload Blitz a ton to out number lines on a certain side I dont see the Bills doing this I see more blitz from the edge and Middle then isolating certain sides.

by PaullyPforPrez on May 11, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kawika can blitz

He is likely one of the fastest LB’s we have. I think as the season continues you will see him line up at OLB.

by wab2 on May 11, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know he can blitz. If he’s blitzing from OLB, we’re not playing the style of 3-4 defense that George Edwards is familiar with – and THAT is my point.

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d hook-up with Lohan… just saying.

by IronEagle119 on May 11, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

Rec’d

"Ok, its Gudda hoe, all about my Bills like Buffalo."

by bflo on May 11, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahahahaha rec'd

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"

by poz on May 11, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would much rather go for the red-headed version than the blond, strung out version.

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by MattRichWarren on May 11, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you PaullyPforPrez

I would have to believe that if George Edwards has Schobel retire on him and he looks around during training camp and finds that Chris Kelsay is a liability, Chris Ellis is a bust, and Danny Batten isn’t ready – all of four of which could very easily happen simultaneously – he would have to be nuts not to consider going with his four best LBs at the four starting positions ie, Maybin – Poz – Davis – Mitchell.

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"

by poz on May 11, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

For now… Mitchell isn’t outside. We all know that can change. Hell we had Marcus Buggs start at MLB last year. Anything can happen.

You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on May 11, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nic Harris/Keith Ellison

If Schobel retires I would think that both Harris and Ellison have as good a shot at seeing time at OLB as Kelsay (for different reasons). And certainly as much time as the rookies.

by Berg79 on May 11, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I see Ellison as a nickel linebacker in this scheme…he’ll play in coverage on obvious passing downs. Harris will likely bulk up a bit and try to play inside linebacker.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you feel Harris’s skill set plays more toward a MLB.

by Berg79 on May 11, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Harris’ skill set is ideally suited as a 4-3 weakside linebacker—especially in the Tampa 2 system. However, in a 3-4 defense with the Bills, he’s waaaaaayyyyyyy too small to play either OLB position. That leaves the two middle spots. The Mike is the thumper who takes on blocks. I don’t think Harris has the size for that. That leaves the Will ILB position. Harris isn’t a snug fit there either, but it’s the best fit for him in this defense and lets him make plays while avoiding the trash of the offensive line. He’s going to have to either bulk up to play ILB, or go back to SS.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right about him playing ILB, he is the same size as Poz (but he looks bigger than Poz)
he’s waaaaaayyyyyyy too small to play either OLB position. That leaves the two middle spots. The Mike is the thumper who takes on blocks. I don’t think Harris has the size for that.

I thought I would put everyone’s H/W up here as a reference…this is pulled from the BuffaloBills.com roster.

ILBs
Harris = 6’2" – 234
Coleman = 6’1" – 248
Ellison = 6’0" – 229
Davis = 6’1" – 251
Manalac = 6’0" – 235
Mitchell = 6’1" – 253
Moats = 6’0" – 250
Poz = 6’1" – 238
Wright = 6’1" – 241

OLBs
Batten = 6’4" – 250
Ellis = 6’4" – 261
Kelsay = 6’4" – 261
Schobel = 6’4" – 243
Maybin = 6’4" – 250

Interesting to see the best playmaking DE in the NFL (here’s the link) is smaller than every other candidate we have to play OLB…but even more impressive is how effective he was at 243 freakin’ pounds as a DE!

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by NorCal BillsFan on May 11, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither will see any time at OLB in the base package. Neither is a pass rusher. As Jeff says, they’re situational players at best.

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that’s the case it would seem logical to expect either Harris or Ellison to make the final roster not both.

by Berg79 on May 11, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re probably right, although Harris could make the team solely for special teams’ talents. It also wouldn’t completely shock me if they cut Ellison because of his age/possible impending free agency, and went young with Harris.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Ellison more than Harris on special teams.

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by MattRichWarren on May 11, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Harris more...

Ellison is more instictual as a LB, but Harris is better in space, where most STs plays take place.

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by NorCal BillsFan on May 11, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That I agree with.

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets be honest

Maybin is a bust… And FYI ppl were saying williams was a bust because of the players he went ahead of, not because of his production. After 1 year im pretty eveident maybin is a bust, The same for gholston also…nonetheless adualis Thomas is still out there

by Marcus Talley on May 11, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

And FYI ppl were saying williams was a bust because of the players he went ahead of

… so everyone who was drafted that year?

by #1 pick in '11 on May 11, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I find it funny that you think Reggie Bush is an overall better player than Mario Williams in the NFL right now. Bush isn’t even the #1 RB on the saints.

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by UZ on May 11, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybin is a bust
After 1 year im pretty eveident maybin is a bust

Those are not the same thing. Maybin is not a bust yet, and your opinion ain’t gonna change that fact.

adualis Thomas is still out there

Sure. Let’s go get a 33-year-old poor scheme fit that flamed out in essentially the same defense we’re trying to run, all while shoving our ’09 first-round pick further down the depth chart, preventing him the opportunity to prove your words prophetic. Sounds like a great idea!

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by Brian Galliford on May 11, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

basically

pretty much all are supposed starting LBs are poor fit for our scheme with the exception of Poz and Davis. So bringing in a former pro-bowler or letting maybin play ( who will struggle in pass coverage and run support)

by Marcus Talley on May 11, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is Maybin a poor fit? Because he hasn’t played the position yet? He is athletically and physically built to be a 3-4 OLB. Virtually zero college defenses are a 3-4 so no matter who we get he will be as green as Maybin in the 3-4.

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by MattRichWarren on May 11, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybin is a bust…

This has been refuted so many times it’s getting redundant.

Actually it got redundant about week 8 last season.

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by UZ on May 11, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh...

Dude you cant call him a bust after one season, his rookie season, and he was 21 years old. If Im correct he signed a 5 year deal… only 20% of his contract is over… lets start with the “bust” labels maybe in his 3rd year, if he does turn out that way. Who knows… he could be a bust, but you cant label him that, not yet. But then again he could be a beast in the 3-4… its a wait and see with players like Maybin. Relax a bit on him …

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by bflo on May 11, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh Please!

You can’t judge a player as a bust after one year.

I would definitely agree this kid was a serious reach, but how do you judge him as a bust?

by mikeo76 on May 11, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

4-3 to 3-4; don't understand when our D was quite effective last year

Great write up Brian, I enjoy your analyis to break up my work day. This discussion goes back to when the team was hiring a D coordinator and what system they will play. It still seems that we fielded a pretty damn good Defense last year that kept us in games. I just don’t understand why this change is made when we you could point to the positions on offense that where simply offensive. I will be very interested if the Bills D anywhere near as good as last year and i thing Perry will be watching too. Your analysis makes it clear to me that we don’t have the personnel still for this position yet.

by brewSTL on May 11, 2010 4:28 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Amen bro!

And with more teams switching to 3-4, that makes competition for players harder and 4-3 talent more available.

I’m in the 5% who checks disatisfied with Chix whenever these polls appear.

by Rick A on May 11, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

The change to a 3-4 made you not like Nix? What if Nix has supreme confidence in his ability to find quality 3-4 players, more than his ability to find 4-3 players? This is a long-term change, not a change to make a change and not a change because our Def sucked. Besides, now Edwards will see a 3-4 in every practice, and just having 3-4 coaches on hand to help breakdown the opponents gamefilm will help.

Why are you dissatisfied with Nix/Gailey so far? The draft? You cant grade him on it, not yet anyway. Especially if we get Gaither, then QB & OLB would be the only major wholes not filled in ONE off-season, which is still going on. Give the guy some time before you disagree, it’s only fair.

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by NorCal BillsFan on May 11, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was against the 3-4 change initially as well, but only because I thought that the draft was going to be 100% offense this season. (That and I’ve always just liked the 4-3 more) Instead they went out and got a big group of guys for the new 3-4 and satisfied me in that regard.

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by UZ on May 12, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re right, we don’t have the full personnel for the 3-4. I think the switch was made because Nix didn’t see the Tampa 2 as an effective defense in a location where the weather (and running the ball) is so important. The Tampa 2 relies on small, quick, penetrating players; the 3-4 relies on size. I can’t prove this, but I suspect Nix prefers the 3-4.

Then Nix brings in Gailey, and I’m sure one of the first things they talked about was defensive scheme. Gailey admitted that the 3-4 makes it easier to confuse the offense. Gailey obviously had a hand in picking the defensive scheme.

It’s easy to see that switching a defense requires a few years and if you’re going to do it, why not do it during what is arguably a rebuilding season? Keep in mind that ideally this is a long-term change, so the talent we have right now isn’t as important as the talent we’ll have later on.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the D was “quite effective last year,” even though with a better O, they might have been.

But the numbers show they were not effective enough to warrant staying put:

League Ranking, Bills Defense
pts # 16; yds # 19; 1st downs # 22; Rush yds # 30; TD # 28, yds/att # 30

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by Undee on May 11, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The yardage numbers don’t do Buffalo justice. Fun fact: they were on the field for the most plays of any defense last year. They actually played about 4 or 5 more plays per game than terrible teams like Detroit and St. Louis.

The run D was awful, but overall, their per play numbers were great. The Bills gave up a hair under 5 yards per play last year. They were essentially tied with a handful of teams for the 5th best yards allowed per play in the NFL.

The 16th in points per game is great when you consider how bad the offense was. Looking at the other teams with terrible offenses, only Carolina and kind of the Jets did better. The other teams with abysmal QBs and offenses had defenses that were just as bad. And here is something Bills fans will find surprising, if the team gave up one fewer FG (say Matt Bryant misses his 50 yard attempt in Atlanta’s blowout of the Bills), then Buffalo would have actually finished 12th in points allowed per game. Right between San Diego and Pittsburgh.

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by kaisertown on May 12, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Pass defense wasn’t bad last year. It was the fact that any team could easily just run all over us that killed the Bills.

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by UZ on May 11, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Pass defense wasn’t bad last year. It was the fact that any team could easily just run all over us that killed the Bills.

This right here is the exact reason we got rid of the Tampa 2. Teams running on us wasn’t just last season; it’s been that way for a while.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the ineffectiveness against the run is a matter of players, not scheme. See the Vikings. Changing to the 3-4 means starting from scratch with a pool of capable players spread even thinner.

by Rick A on May 11, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re partially right. The Tampa 2 scheme focuses on smaller players—230 lb. outside linebackers and 260 lb. defensive ends. The size of those players lends themselves to teams running heavily on us.

The Vikings run more of a base 4-3 then a Tampa 2 system. If we went to a bigger version of the 4-3, we’d still have to replace the smaller players on our defense, so we’d have to start from scratch either way to some degree.

by Jeff Winters on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats why I think we will be running a 4-6 - Hybrid

You will see Stroud, Edwards, Troup/Williams, Schobel up front all day, then you will see Paully P, Davis,Kawika, Maybin in the middle
And McKelvin Mcgee and Byrd (almost a 4-4)

I am almost willing to bet you will see the Bills run a 4-3 from time to time
Its just that Tampa 2 had to go its a bend but dont break defensive approach and it had to be rid of

Then on passing downs like 3rd and long you will see three rushers with 2 backers and the rest coverage guys Whitner, Byrd Mcgee, Mckelvin, Florence, and youbouty/corner/lankster

by PaullyPforPrez on May 11, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

schobel will play

at $7M he will be there, just spending as much time as possible, ala bret favre

by wab2 on May 11, 2010 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think he's in it for the money...

If he was, he would have taken his physical to get the roster bonus by now. They guy is a class act. I think he’ll end up playing just to try out a new defense. He seems like a guy who likes to try a new challenge (although I have nothing to back that up with)

If I only had a brain...

by Schooled You on May 11, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Schobel. He can walk away if he wants.
OR
He can make wifey happy and himself set for life if he plays two more years. Wish I had that chance.

"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on May 11, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sure hope so...

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by NorCal BillsFan on May 11, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

God I hope that Schobel sticks around. It would make things sooooo much easier for this D.

Although I have the felling that he’s retiering.

I do however think that your assesment of Maybin is wrong. Thats to ay that even if Schobel does stick around, I see Maybin as the starter on the other side ahead of Kelsey. Mainly because we all know that this is Kelsey’s last year in Buffalo, and even he must know that. So why not give more playing time to Maybin so he can learn more, faster. Putting Maybin in at the starter and then switching Kelsey in for only obvious running down would probably be a better service to Maybin and the D in the long run, than having Kelsey playing the first two downs and having Maybin comming in on third downs. Basicly, the more playing time for Maybin, the better. We just have to make sure not to overload him with responsibility. But I think that he will be able to handle starting duties.

The more I see, the less I know.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 11, 2010 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

yup, well said CBF

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by poz on May 11, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would rather see Maybin all day...

than Kelsay at all except on obvious passing downs…

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by NorCal BillsFan on May 11, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

*rushing downs

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by NorCal BillsFan on May 11, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I think that thats how it whould start out. It gives Maybin a lot more chance to adjust and grow into the 3-4 OLB that we need him to be. Let’s be honest, we’re going to suck next year. So we might as well use the oppertunity to give one of our young players, and probably the most important young player on our D right now, as many oppertunities to grow as possible. And if he looks overwhelmed thats when you start to put Kelsey in more often.

The best idea that our coaches could have is to give Maybin as many oppertunites to grow and learn all the while, and this is the important part, keeping him in his comfort zone. If he handles the duties well, then you keep his snaps steady. If he excels, then you give him more responsibility. If he has trouble, then you cut a few of his snaps until he gets comfortable enough to earn them back. Either way Maybin is going to be one of the focal points in next year’s D. he simply has to be if we are to hope that our D will be successful long term.

The more I see, the less I know.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 12, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Any downs!

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by UZ on May 12, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Awesome post. Very well written. I learned a few things.
The biggest thing I learned is that we don’t have a LOLB. And that scares me.

"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on May 11, 2010 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

hot mess.............

thats my vote

"If we can put four quarters together, that's the objective. Let's see how somebody else feels playing from behind." (TWCS)

by norcaliangelsfan on May 11, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybin is the key

Since we is a first rounder, and is more suited for OLB because of his speed. Let’s face it, the Bills are few years away from being a playoff team, and if Schoebel decides to retire to his ranch, then no great loss! He is 34 now and by the time the Bills turn this organization around, he will probably be either 36 or 52. He can take Kelsey with him as well. I think the darkhorse is Coleman, since I love players from the SEC, just as Ozzie Newsome does, and the Bills did pretty well with another linebacker from Auburn – Takeo Spikes. He was first team all-ACC and led in sacks with 10 and tackles for losses. There are concerns about his speed at OLB, but he proves it on the field.

by BuffaloWhiner on May 12, 2010 8:56 AM EDT reply actions  

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