Bills WR Hardy is par for 2008 WR course
We've been looking at the Buffalo Bills' various team needs over the past couple of months. One of the positions that has emerged as a consensus area of need is wide receiver. The obvious question is: why? Buffalo has one of the league's top end deep threats in Lee Evans. The team invested a 2008 second round pick in James Hardy. The Bills have Roscoe Parrish, as well as another 2008 draft pick, Steve Johnson.
Was Hardy just another whiff of a draft pick by the Inner Circle and Dick Jauron? In search of the answer, I looked back at the top ten wide receivers selected in the 2008 NFL Draft, all of whom were second-round selections. Given that Buffalo was looking for a big, physical wide receiver, I broke the statistics down into two categories: big receivers (measuring in at over six feet tall and 200 pounds) and smaller receivers (under six feet tall, under 200 pounds).
The results are strangely consistent: the smaller receivers have thoroughly out-played the big receivers through two NFL seasons, and it's not close.
Here is a look at the six big receivers taken in the second round of the 2008 NFL Draft:
| Name | GP | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | DP |
| Devin Thomas, WAS | 30 | 40 | 445 | 11.1 | 3 | 34 |
| Jordy Nelson, GB | 29 | 55 | 686 | 12.5 | 4 | 36 |
| James Hardy, BUF | 16 | 10 | 96 | 9.6 | 2 | 41 |
| Jerome Simpson, CIN | 8 | 1 | 2 | 2.0 | 0 | 46 |
| Malcolm Kelly, WAS | 21 | 28 | 365 | 13.0 | 0 | 51 |
| Limas Sweed, PIT | 20 | 7 | 69 | 9.9 | 0 | 53 |
| Totals | 124 | 141 | 1,663 | 11.8 | 9 | |
| Averages | 20.7 | 23.5 | 277.2 | 11.8 | 1.5 |
The averages line really sticks out. These big receivers have averaged less than two receptions for under 20 yards per game, and not even 2 touchdowns per season. Yeesh. The only big WR from the second round of 2008 who has made a significant contribution is Jordy Nelson, who was pulled off the board five picks before Buffalo selected Hardy.
Injuries have slowed this group of receivers down, with Hardy losing most of a year due to injury and Thomas, Sweed and Kelly all missing time as well. It's interesting to note that most of us wanted Thomas, Kelly or Sweed in 2008. Here are those guys in isolation.
| Name | GP | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | DP |
| Devin Thomas, WAS | 30 | 40 | 445 | 11.1 | 3 | 34 |
| Malcolm Kelly, WAS | 21 | 28 | 365 | 13.0 | 0 | 51 |
| Limas Sweed, PIT | 20 | 7 | 69 | 9.9 | 0 | 53 |
| Totals | 71 | 75 | 879 | 11.7 | 3 | |
| Averages | 23.7 | 25 | 293 | 11.7 | 1 |
Suffice it to say, we don't know squat about drafting WRs. Yeah, the third year is when the light is supposed to go on for receivers, but Sweed may miss his third year entirely due to an Achilles injury. Thomas and Kelly are ideally placed to have big years - barring further injuries - given that they will be on the receiving end of passes from Donovan McNabb. Should Thomas and Kelly break out in 2010, the question will be whether they were due or whether they were dragged upwards by one of the premier quarterbacks in the league. My money would be on McNabb.
Looking at the other four receivers drafted in 2008--the smaller WRs--the numbers immediately pop out at you.
| Name | GP | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | DP |
| Donnie Avery, STL | 31 | 100 | 1,263 | 12.6 | 8 | 33 |
| Eddie Royal, DEN | 29 | 128 | 1,325 | 10.4 | 5 | 42 |
| DeSean Jackson, PHI | 31 | 124 | 2,068 | 16.7 | 11 | 49 |
| Dexter Jackson, TB | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0 | 58 |
| Totals | 91 | 352 | 4,656 | 13.2 | 24 | |
| Averages | 22.8 | 88 | 1,164 | 13.2 | 6 |
Just to make the comparison even clearer:
| GP | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | |
| 6 "Big" WRs | 124 | 141 | 1,663 | 11.8 | 9 |
| 4 "Small" WRs | 91 | 352 | 4,656 | 13.2 | 24 |
In short, the little guys have run wild, starting fewer overall games but just about tripling the big guys in terms of receptions, yards and touchdowns. The really sad thing is that one of the smaller receivers, Dexter Jackson, is a return guy and not a real WR. The smaller receivers have outperformed the bigger WRs in total yards, receptions and TDs despite being outnumbered two to one by their bigger brothers.
Here's the amazing thing, to me anyway: DeSean Jackson, on the receiving end of passes from Donovan McNabb, blows away any of the other second-round 2008 receivers. He also stacks up well against the other nine WRs combined:
| GP | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | |
| DeSean Jackson, PHI | 31 | 124 | 2,068 | 16.7 | 11 |
| All 9 other 2008 second-round WRs | 184 | 369 | 4,251 | 11.5 | 22 |
Jackson has about half as many yards and scores as the other nine receivers combined, and did it on about a third of the receptions. Jackson simply annihilates the average of the other nine receivers, tripling the receptions and quadrupling the yards and TD counts. I credit that largely to McNabb. I wouldn't be surprised to see either or both of Thomas or Kelly have great years for fantasy owners. It's curious to me that Sweed, who has the benefit of playing with Ben Roethlisberger, really hasn't posted good numbers at all. I think that Nelson will continue to do reasonably well given that he is catching passes from Aaron Rodgers. Meanwhile, Simpson hasn't been on the field, Avery will be catching passes from a rookie, Jackson figures to continue to be a punt/kick returner and Royal will be held back by Kyle Orton.
Hardy wasn't necessarily a bad pick in that he's par for the course among the big WRs taken in the second round of 2008. He averages about two fewer games, 12 fewer receptions, and about a third fewer yards. Hardy somehow does manage to average about twice as many TDs as his fellow big WRs, despite missing about a year due to injury. We'll have to hope that he paid close attention to Terrell Owens during 2009, and that the proverbial light goes on in 2010. Buffalo's QB situation, however, suggests that Hardy may not have the breakout year that Buffalo so badly needs.
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There were lots of reports of hardy being schooled by owens all last year; lets hope he gleaned something from that.
do you attribute the fact that the smaller receivers were just better, so they saw the field and produced? I mean, even if hardy had been healthy last year, he would’ve been at best a number 4 guy. I think sweed is at best a 4 or 5 guy. We didn’t really draft hardy to be an immediate impact guy, did we?
I would assume most of the smaller guys are much more polished route runners and are much more adept at getting open, and that translates more quickly to the nfl…the big guys in college are used to having such a physical advantage that i don’t think they frequently have to work nearly as hard to get the ball.
I thought Sweed looked good at times last year
too bad I hear he hurt the achilles… something tells me Owens did little tutoring, and you know, i hope Hardy wasn’t looking when Ownes took plays off and dropped TDs
It is Brohm’s Bills jersey that is the least stained with doo-doo... GO BILLS
i dunno, i think i read an article (maybe on here, might have been in the daily rumblings) that there was a ton of tutoring going on and such. I mean, we can only take that for what its worth…TO has under any status been a top wide out in this league, for all of his problems.
by quantumuprising on May 3, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It's my understanding
That Hardy did all the talking and studying of T.O. I am sure Owens shared some insight but I doubt that it was much more than that. Hardy should be the odds on favorite going into camp, he will just have to earn it when it begins.
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Hardy went over to T.O.’s a bunch of times. Owens taught him about taking care of his body and a bunch of other things. Not sure how much took place on the field or in practice.
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by MattRichWarren on May 3, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, Royal got the big numbers his rookie year because Cutler seemed to key in on him as his favorite target and when he’s got an Offensive line, Cutler is pretty darn accurate and good. B-Marshall didn’t get nearly as many touches as he probably should have last season.
When Orton came in it wasn’t a lack of skill from Orton throwing to Royal, it was more Royal not getting looked at anymore while Orton focused almost entirely on Marshall last season. So if Cutler were still a Bronco, Royal would probably be a lot closer to DeSean in productivity.
…Man, I’ve lived in Denver too long.
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Hardy wasn’t necessarily a bad pick in that he’s par for the course among the big WRs taken in the second round of 2008.
Well, saying you’re about the same as other players that haven’t performed much at all isn’t saying much. It’s not like the Bills were forced to take a big WR in the second round of that draft.
Having said that, the Bills knew they were getting a raw WR when they selected him. Adding in an injury that more or less wiped out last year and it’s hard to properly evaluate Hardy at this point. But he’s about 20 months removed from the injury so that shouldn’t be an excuse at this point. I think this season will make it very clear what type of player we should expect Hardy to be going forward.
That IS the theme of this year, after all. Chix seeing who from the last few regimes will really fit in with the new Bills.
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by UZ on May 3, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Hardy flat out dominated in the Big 10 in college.
He was literally the only offensive threat on a really crappy team and was the focal point every game and still made big plays on the regular. He got his ACL injury at a really crappy time because it kept him from contributing his second year too, but I’m optimistic he can give us 50+ receptions and 5+ TDs this year.
Is 50 receptions and 5 TD’s REALLY that optimistic? Even with the sub-par QB’s we have I think Hardy could manage that if he won the #2 WR spot.
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by UZ on May 3, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention the + makes me think 6, 7, or 8 TDs, not 5.
"The horse jumped over the f#@king fence."
- KV
I was going with the low end of the spectrum there. Beyond that is a little wonky.
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by UZ on May 3, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Terrell Owens caught 55 balls and 5 TDs last season. Fred Jackson 46 and 2. Lee Evans 44 and 7. Man I’d love it if ANY BILLS RECEIVER caught 50 balls and 5 TDs next year. :-)
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by MattRichWarren on May 3, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember
when we drafted him, Whitner said that he was the only player in the big 10 that OSU gameplanned against. Maybe he was just a good college player who can’t make the transition, but man was he a good college player…
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by JPH on May 3, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hardy
Whether or not Hardy is a bust or not will have to be determined this year. When you use a top 50 pick on a player, you have to give the guy a chance to sink or swin at some point and Buffalo would be wise to roll with Hardy 100% in 2010.
As far as 2008 goes, I’d argue that Buffalo’s fans were proven correct in their assertion that Buffalo did not have enough in terms of skilled position weapons to put out a productive offense. Hardy was known as a project with raw skills when Buffalo drafted him (Wang?) and he was the not a great fit for a team with a gaping hole opposite Lee Evans on the outside. Whether or not the draft class was weak is beside the point, Buffalo failed to put a sufficient product on the field and the offense floundered. Like QB and LT this year, it’s 100% correct for Buffalo to pass on drafting at these positions if they do not like the prospects available. That’s why they’re the pros and the fans are the fans. However, it’s still their job to address weak positions in some serious manner and simply allowing the two thinnest positions on the team to return as is will prove to be a monumental mistake for which Nix and Gailey will deserve scorn for decades to come.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
allowing the two thinnest positions on the team to return as is will prove to be a monumental mistake for which Nix and Gailey will deserve scorn for decades to come.
You can see the future!?!!
"The horse jumped over the f#@king fence."
- KV
Nope
Can’t project rookies like Troup, Carrington, Easley, etc. Projecting college players to the pros is the job of NFL personnel men. I CAN project Edwards/Fitzpatrick and Demetrius Bell as can anyone who follows this team. It’s not as complicated as Nix would have you believe. They’re poor football players and although Bell’s still green, there’s nothing on his resume that would suggest that he’ll be good enough upon gaining experience either.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
I won’t bother listing examples that prove that you COULD be wrong in saying that there is NO CHANCE for the players you listed. It’s been done to death.
"The horse jumped over the f#@king fence."
- KV
Building around lottery tickets sounds like poor strategy to me. Obviously, there’s always a snowball’s chance in hell of some veteran player suddenly succeeding after playing poorly early in his career. But nothing from the standpoint of on-field production, raw, physical tools, or previous draft status suggests that any of those three players has a legitimate chance of succeeding. Nobody knows the future, but projecting known entities isn’t rocket science either.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
I don’t really want to have a discussion about this as it’s been had 1,000 time on this site. It just kind of irks me when people make claims that amount to: there is no chance this player will be any good under any circumstances. That’s an opinion, not a fact. Circumstances change, as do players. Again, there are plenty of examples of players sucking until year 3, 4, or 5 and the players you named are in their 3rd/4th and 2nd years.
If you want to think that it’s unlikely that the team will be any good because it’s unlikely that Edwards and Bell will be any good, you’re welcome to. But don’t say it
will prove to be a monumental mistake for which Nix and Gailey will deserve scorn for decades to come.as though you know this for a fact, as though you can see the future.
"The horse jumped over the f#@king fence."
- KV
Brohm isn’t a veteran. Trent hasn’t really had a chance to shine since his concussion, before-which he looked pretty good. Fitz is the only one who I would call a poor-playing vet.
This isn’t rolling out JP Losman and David Carr or anything. They actually do have a completely unproven potential guy and a guy that showed he had the ability for at least a short time.
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by UZ on May 3, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Brohm was picked up off of waivers. He’s an unknown, but if you were a gambling man, that’s a pretty solid lead to point you in the right direction….to say Edwards hasn’t had a chance to shine is comical. His entire pro career, he’s been handed playing time and his fallen flat on his face. Hey, you can hold out home on him and that’s fine, but saying he hasn’t had a chance to prove his doubters wrong is simply a joke. He’s been the majority starting QB for an NFL team for three years. That’s a pretty awesome opportunity for a young mid-round pick at a positions where opportunities are limited league-wide.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
Brohm has all the qualities you listed that point to having a legitimate chance of succeeding. He has the physical tools to succeed, was drafted relatively high, and hasn’t been given a chance to have on-field production yet.
"The horse jumped over the f#@king fence."
- KV
You don’t see his being waived as indicative of anything? Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for Brohm, but that’s a really telling sign of Brohm’s ability…Buffalo isn’t that much smarter than everyone else that it’s likely they can find a starting QB on a dumpster dive.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
I see it could be indicative of the fact that the packers would rather pay a 7th round draft pick to be the backup......
then a 2nd round pick.
Thats what I see.
"If we can put four quarters together, that's the objective. Let's see how somebody else feels playing from behind." (TWCS)
by norcaliangelsfan on May 3, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt that
Brohm signed a 4 year, $3.5M contract
Flynn signed a 4 year, $1.77M contract.
That’s an extra $400K or so per year. If they really liked Brohm and saw potential in him, that’s a number that’s hardly going to inhibit the Packers from keep him over Flynn, or better yet, keeping them both.
They gave up so quickly on Brohm that it’s hard to imagine they saw much they liked in him….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
thats still 1.6m they could use else where.........
it may not have been the factor…………its just a thought.
"If we can put four quarters together, that's the objective. Let's see how somebody else feels playing from behind." (TWCS)
by norcaliangelsfan on May 3, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to keep perpetuating the side conversation but...
Brohm wasn’t waived. He was stolen by Buffalo and the Packers made an offer, which Brohm turned down for an opportunity to start somewhere else.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on May 3, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah i think a player has to be cut/waived
before they can be put on the practice squad…………
"If we can put four quarters together, that's the objective. Let's see how somebody else feels playing from behind." (TWCS)
by norcaliangelsfan on May 3, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I forgot to add the part about being originally waived but then signed back to their practice squad. Still, they wanted him back to develop, but then Buffalo jump at him and he said sorry to the Pack.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on May 3, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
There is plenty to like about picking up Brohm from the Bil,ls’ standpoint. I always believed that keeping a 3rd QB around like Hamdan who was kind of older and not really a developing prospect was a waste. That being said, the fact that Brohm was on waivers less than a year ago makes it fairly far-fetched that he’s a solution at QB for the BIlls. An interesting flyer? Sure. Someone you can REASONABLY count on? I believe his being available on the scrap heap makes that highly unlikely.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
I like Brohm’s chances in the league still. I look at it as the Packers didn’t like something about keeping him on the active roster at that point. He was VERY interesting to the Bills, it seems. Look at it this way: think of how the Bills passed on Clausen (and 31 other clubs too). It’s not so much that he won’t succeed, but that something about him didn’t speak to them as their guy. I still think he will be a great player in the league, but the Bills didn’t think he was their great player, much like the Pack didn’t think Brohm was, in their scenario.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on May 3, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I checked you didn’t need much in brains to find something valuable in a dumpster dive. Brains are pretty much the last thing you need.
You know what else is silly? You start by saying it isn’t your job to be able to figure out prospects and then go on to say how you have figured out three of their prospects.
What have I claimed to have figured out? Edwards is a bad quarterback? It’s unreasonable to expect a quarterback you claimed off of waivers to develop into a starter? Seventh round draft picks who haven’t played particularly well in limited playing time usually aren’t adequate starting left tackles? Who’s going out on a limb with figuring things out? The skeptical fans who in their ignorance think quarterback and left tackle are kind of important or the condescending first time GM? I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
Specifically I was just talking about the players, and if they would or would not be good now, Edwards, Brohm, Bell… I thought it was silly because you preface it with the fact that you are not qualified to make said assessments with regards to rookies then go ahead and make them about very immature players, not the greatest scenario for making your opinion seem informed. I agree with you on some of the stuff I guess… though I don’t think I have a clue as to how good Edwards is. Of course, I felt that way about JP too.
Perhaps if you didn’t load your questions so heavily… for instance calling the fans skeptical while calling the GM condescending… given the option would you pick skeptical or condescending? What sort of question is that? I’ll pick the guy that knows way more about running a football team than a fan of a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade. I suspect the GM has a lot less emotion tied to his decisions.
Looking forward to hopefully having a coach that doesn’t ruin young QBs, that would be a nice change.
raw, physical tools
Even people who don’t like Edwards, or Bell, generally don’t deny the fact they have the physical tools to succeed. Like me for example, I think Edwards is hot garbage, but physically he does have all the tools you’d want in a franchise QB. And Bell’s athletisism is pretty well documented.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Agree with giving him a ton of playing time and opportunities this year
Can’t keep “saving” a guy or waiting for him to play better in practice…whatever. These guys needs to see the field if the Bills are going to find out anything about them going forward for the future. Hardy, Maybin, Leo, Bell, St. Johnson, Ellis, Nelson, and so on….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Speed and quickness......winning out over big (seemingly slow) WR?
there’s a shock………
I say “seemingly slow” because as mentioned in another post Hardy plays really really slower than his combine time suggests……..Why that is I have no clue…….just an observation.
I’d like to hope the light flicks on this year………the team needs all the help it can get.
"If we can put four quarters together, that's the objective. Let's see how somebody else feels playing from behind." (TWCS)
by norcaliangelsfan on May 3, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, I was surprised by Hardy’s combine 40 results that were posted. He does not look that fast at all. It might be that he needs three or four strides to get up to speed – which would make sense as he is kind of a lanky guy. All a corner has to do is bump, or even just get in the way and he’s not going to be able to get up to speed – by the time he does get it up, play is over.
If that is the case, he needs to get really strong so that he can muscle the corners who will be all over him – that’s TO’s game. Thing is, he does not have TO’s frame, so I don’t see him having that potential – he could get all Mark McGuired, but then there goes any speed he had.
Then what’s left for him? Fades into the corner of the endzone. And that’s about it. He’s a one trick pony if we can get into the red zone and float passes where he can leap over corners. That might explain why he actually has a disproportionate number of TD’s for the yards and playing time. (not that he’s put in enough time to really make his stats significant enough that you can draw judgments about him).
If he can be a red-zone target specialist, I’d be OK with that. We need more moving parts to even make use of him like that though.
Best Players Play Period.
Give the guy a chance. Players get chances in practice everyday. These players are filmed every practice and analysed every day. There is no room for error if you want playing time. Coaches coach to win games not prepare for a better draft spot in the coming year. Nix and Gailey have brought in competition at every position that lacked competition. The battle in training camp will be a fierce one for many positions and playing time. This is the way it should be.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Hardy's worth should be determined before the regular season
This comment isn’t directed towards anyone or any comment in particular, but I get the feeling that some people feel he “ought” to play simply because he was a high draft pick. He should certainly get the opportunity in training camp/pre-season, but if he doesn’t separate himself from Scuba Steve, Jackson, Roscoe, etc., I don’t think he “deserves” to be our #2.
The fact that he was a 2nd round pick is a sunk cost—we need to get our best players on the field starting opening day. No special concessions should be given to a guy who has essentially made 1 play in two years (I don’t count the td against the Pats in garbage time).
That makes sense
i just think that since Johnson, Jackson, and Parrish haven’t produced steadily on the field either, giving Hardy first dibs, if you will, makes sense given his measurables and draft status. By all means, if someone like Johnson turns out to be markedly better, get him on the field.
"Godzilla is coming so get ready." -abayarde
i sort of disagree McGee
Obviously, if Scuba Steve blows him out of the water in camp Hardy shouldnt be given anything but if its relatively close I do think the nod should go to Hardy. We have to find out what we have in him and everyone who’s ever played a sport – any sport – knows that what happens in practice and what happens on gameday are rarely correlated outside preparation and hard work. He should be out there as our #2 at least to start, just so we can see what he can do.
Unfortunately, I dont know if we’ll ever find that out with our current QBs
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on May 3, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions






















