Bills Training Camp Battles: Third Quarterback
by Brian Galliford on Jul 26, 2010 8:37 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Training Camp
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PrintThe week has arrived, Buffalo Bills fans: Bills rookies and veterans report to St. John Fisher College for training camp on Wednesday, and hit the field for the first time on Thursday. In that light, we're going to be busy this week, starting with wrapping up this battle series of ours.
Most eyes will be on the quarterback position in training camp, as fans and media alike await the winner of the three-way battle for the starting job between Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brian Brohm. If, like me, you're of the opinion that Buffalo's talent at quarterback dictates that the outcome won't really matter in the long run, you might, like me, be more interested in which three quarterbacks make the roster, as opposed to which one will be doing the most playing. That brings us to this morning's topic; yes, we'll cover that other one later this week.
With seventh-round project Levi Brown on the roster and a risky proposition for the practice squad, it's unclear which three quarterbacks the Bills will keep. Clearly, much of that decision is contingent on what happens at the top of the depth chart; with that in mind, we'll run down a couple of scenarios (which are mostly speculative on my part) and let you decide if you agree, or if you'd rather pose a scenario of your own.
If Trent Edwards Doesn't Win The Starting Job...
The first fundamental truth I'd like to posit is this: if Edwards, the fourth-year pro out of Stanford, does not beat out his teammates for the starting job, there is absolutely no good reason for him to remain part of this organization.
With just one year left on his rookie contract, Edwards - with the possible exception of Brohm - is the most expendable quarterback on the roster. Cutting him would be nearly akin to cutting an undrafted free agent. There's nothing prohibitive financially that could convince the team to keep him as a backup, and if Fitzpatrick proved anything last year, it's that he can lead the Bills, with all of their various deficiencies, to a few wins off the bench. Edwards is still, at worst, the second-most talented quarterback on the roster, and has by a considerable margin the most game experience; if he can't use those assets to win a simple training camp competition, it'll be time for the Bills to cut their losses.
That said, Edwards is still expected to get the first crack at the starting job, and as we discussed last week, there's no reason to believe that Brohm (or, to a lesser degree, Fitzpatrick) will outperform him in the pre-season. So I'll also roll with the likelihoods here and guess that Edwards wins the starting job.
If Trent Edwards Wins The Starting Job...
Then things get interesting. Buffalo will be forced to choose a backup quarterback - not an easy decision to predict at the moment - and also choose which higher-upside project they'd rather work with.
Fitzpatrick is a known commodity, and has by far the biggest salary implication of any signal-caller on the roster. He's due to make $5.1 million in base salaries over the next two years, and as Assistant GM Doug Whaley disclosed to BuffaloBills.com earlier this month, the Bills want to "go out and get solid contributing veterans that can start and will be here for most of their contracts." Clearly, this regime did not sign Fitzpatrick to his deal, so they might be willing to cut their losses. But in a QB corps full of question marks, Fitzpatrick is the most established as far as long-term potential goes, so that contract implication might be more important than it appears at first blush. He's entering the second year of a three-year deal.
Brohm would be Fitzpatrick's chief competitor for backup quarterback, and many believe at the moment that there's a very good chance Brohm opens camp getting No. 2 reps. Chan Gailey was up front about his belief that Brohm "made a jump" during spring workouts, but he hasn't proven anything in the practice setting with pads on - and he's still got to overcome his pre-season demons, as well. There's little doubt that Brohm's upside is significantly higher than Fitzpatrick's, but again, the term "proven commodity" means a lot in this discussion, as well.
If Fitzpatrick beats out Brohm for the backup job, then the team will have to decide which of its high-upside projects - Brohm or Brown - is more worthy of the third spot on the depth chart. If Brohm wins the backup job, then the Bills must choose between their project or their proven commodity with the biggest contract. Boiling everything down as succinctly as possible (and again, this is mostly subjective, and certainly not the only scenario):
Edwards gets cut IF: he cannot win the starting QB job.
Fitzpatrick gets cut IF: Edwards is the starter AND Brohm is the backup AND the team prioritizes Brown's upside over Fitzpatrick's accomplishments/contract.
Brohm gets cut IF: Edwards is the starter AND Fitzpatrick is the backup AND the team prioritizes Brown's upside to Brohm's.
Brown gets cut IF: Edwards is the starter AND the team prefers Fitzpatrick's accomplishments OR Brohm's upside to Brown's upside as the third quarterback.
The poll is up. You know what to do with it.
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when you say brown is a ‘risky proposition for the ps,’ do you mean you think another team will try and scoop him up?
by quantumuprising on Jul 26, 2010 8:46 AM EDT reply actions
I mean that if the Bills like him enough, they won’t risk losing him to another team by putting him on the practice squad.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 26, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
How much do they really like him though? They waited until the 7th round. I know we’ve heard them say they had him rated higher. To me, that’s a bit misleading as they risked losing him by passing on him in the earlier rounds. So I think they may take another risk on the raw talent he posesses.
If i’m Gailey, i’d probably feel more comfortable with 3 guys who all have some degree of NFL experience. We have no idea how well this line is going to perform, and there could come a point in the season where #1 and #2 are injured, making #3 a VERY important player. I’d feel nervous as a fan if that guy was Brown.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
And yes, I voted Brown. It’ll be unpopular with nearly everyone, but he poses the biggest risk if asked to play under center at ANY point this season. I think he’d be fairly safe on the PS, honestly..
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If your third stringer is playing, you aren’t (likely) winning any games anyway. I think most teams 3rd QB is a project type of guy who is unlikely to become a starter, but the coaches think there is a shot he could make them look like geniuses if he does.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jul 26, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Afghan. Levi Brown is at an early stage of development and teams that are working hard to cut down to a 53 man roster in September (and who passed him up in the draft) are not likely to take a flyer on him.
But I think the real question is Trent Edwards vs. Brohm. If TE doesn’t start to show something to Gailey and convince him that he could be the QB of the future, he not only won’t be the starter come September but will probably (as Brian says) get traded or cut. Keeping him around at that point would not be good for morale. Brohm also has to start showing something, but I think the level he has to reach now to stay on the roster is lower than Trent’s so long as Gailey is convinced there is serious potential there. But if Brohm is looking like he is not going anywhere as an NFL QB he will of course be cut.
Ironically, I suspect the safest guy of the four is Fitz. He is an excellent back-up QB (tho not a starter) and his salary is appropriate for that role. For that reason the smart thing would be to keep him and have him available in case the starter (whoever that is) gets injured.
Wow...
He is an excellent back-up QB (tho not a starter) and his salary is appropriate for that role.
We have very different qualifications for using the term excellent…
Fitz is the worst back-up QB Buffalo has had since I can ever remember. He can’t complete a pass more than 50% of the time, he has no arm, no upside and is the most expensive QB on the team. WHY! WHY! WHY! Keep him around when we are rebuilding?
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
well said!
The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
"Fitz is the worst back-up QB Buffalo has had since I can ever remember."
You probably don’t remember Gary Marangi or Dan Manucci——-horrible back-ups!!!
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
Nope...
but that is why I had to limit it to the ones I do remember…I do remember hearing jokes about how bad Marangi & Manucci were though… : )
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Kelly Holcomb???
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 26, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Billy Joe Holbert takes the crown, in my book.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Jul 26, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe “excellent” was too strong a choice of word. Perhaps I should have said “very good.” But it seems to me he did a very impressive job stepping in last year under what were simply atrocious conditions. To the extent that the offense moved at all and scored any points in 2009 it was thanks to Fitz’s leadership and skills. Remember that he had had very few reps with the starters when he took over the team and yet a number of folks on this website were calling for him to become the permanent starter once they saw what he could do.
Your ideal back-up is someone who can come in at a moment’s notice and keep the team going while also being perfectly willing to occupy the role of back-up. Fitz fits that description very nicely.
They waited until the 7th round
i refuse to use any example… you all can infer the one that gets used always… here is what i will say though: it doesn’t matter where you take them. if you find a player and he can play, you don’t care how he got there; and i would like also to add, that if we weren’t already concerned someone else would or could potentially pick him up if available, we would have waited for unrestricted free agency. we wanted him. they picked him. he is likely to be a third QB, leaving Fitz to get cut, or Brohm to end up on PS (if still eligble-?) should the current assumed depth chart be accurate with Edwards at the top.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 26, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Brian....
that you wouldn’t draft a QB that you have interest in to risk losing him by putting in the PS. However, I tend to think that no one is eager to take any QB from Buffalo at this point.
I picked Fitz but actually its difficult to truly gauge which one because no one knows what Gailey is looking for in a QB to run his offense. One thing I do know is Gailey is high on fundamentals. I think he has a idea how he wants to run his offensive scheme, but now its a matter of who is best QB to operate it, thus the open competition. So I guess my question is who has the best fundamental skill set and who doesn’t? IMO Fitz is the odd man out.
safe to say
brown was a 7th rounder. nobody wanted him for two days. i don’t think a buffalo pre season is going to pique anyone’s interest. he’s safe on the ps if the staff wants to put him there.
brohm was unique in being on the ps. very highly touted, drafted relatively high, then psed without much of a chance.
by oompaloompa on Jul 27, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Mine is not, but I’m saving that for Wednesday. :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 26, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
a teaser!
I guess I’ll have to wait…
All your scenarios make sense to me and I definitely agree that Edwards would have to make tremendous bone headed moves to not win the starting job. I know I know, try to stretch your mind around that.
by Mindbender14 on Jul 26, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Why Fitz?
He’s a perfect backup QB. He’s IMO, the one QB I would personally keep on the team, but that’s just me. Edwards-Fitz-then Brohm or Brown.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
eh
In my mind “What’s the point of keeping around a guy whose primary job is to be the back-up?”
by Mindbender14 on Jul 26, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
most players in the NFL are back-ups, maybe some for future potential or for depth. So, in order to field a 53-man team, we’re going to need back-ups, and over a half will be back-ups on the team anyway. An example I could give you is our very own Alex Van Pelt, who spent most his career in Buffalo, or another example with Kenneth Davis.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Jul 26, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
for perfectly clear logic and accurate perception… at least IMO. You are only as good as your depth in some games seasons, as we have seen. sometimes often those quality depth guys end up being the starters, at least at some point. that isn’t to say that I don’t think in this instance, we could have 4 backup QBs, and don’t really need them all. Unless one stands out, and stands fairly tall, we will likely be taking a QB or two next year or over the next couple of years.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 26, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s safe to say more than a few back-ups are young guys with potential who haven’t supplanted starters yet, and still many who were supplanted by younger guys but who are still decent starter/borderline starter types. Then there are so many kinds of situational players. With quarterbacks it is a much clearer situation as to what is going on in a given depth chart, and there are a few obvious different approaches.
I can see equally the wisdom in keeping a back-up who is most capable of keeping the season afloat if the starter goes out. I can also see trying to load the depth chart with as much potential future QBs as possible during this rebuild phase. One knock against the “best back-up” concept in our case is that the competition between the QB’s is obviously very open and perhaps in the end there isn’t going to be much difference, in reality or in the coach’s eyes, between a guy like Fitzpatrick and Brohm, even if Fitzy has shown what he can (and can’t) do and Brohm would have only done it in camp/preseason.
Like I said though I really don’t give a crap who all gets picked, I just want them to make the right choices based on what they have to look at rather than me sitting here trying to guess what the right choice is. It’s way too messy for me to bother. I do think they’re getting a QB in the first round next year almost regardless of what happens this season. I think they held off thinking next season had a better and deeper QB class + they (or Ralph) very much wanted Spiller to boot, perhaps someone with more draft class awareness can back me up or scold me on that point.
I should say, it’s too messy and there are too many ways to go for me to try and say what is best for the team. Wasn’t trying to knock the whole concept of the thread. It’s a good conversation to participate in but I just can’t see trying to make the call.
The obvious guess and most prototypical choice would be Edwards – Fitzpatrick – Brohm, but maybe the new organization wants to both buck obvious for what it finds to be more tailored needs and also not carry the same depth chart as the last regime.
I get your point, and I do agree.
There is a difference from depth at all other positions, and that QB situations are different. Like you said, hopefully they keep the three guys that win us the most games, and I could care less who steps up, just one QB ‘man up’ and take charge of this team. I just have this feeling, since IMO & in my eyes, we have no legit starter, so I would like them to keep Fitzy as consistent back-up that can produce (i know his accuracy issues, he also has confidence, mobility etc.) and if Levi Brown shows some signs or even Brohm, hopefully groom one of them. I also agree, were going to have some new QB’s in the near future, most liekly.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Jul 26, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
good stuff Galliford!
Finally the season is around the corner. I have had to take a long break from Rumblings as I mourned the ending of the Dick Jauron era. No idea what to expect with Gailey and co., but with the season drawing near my excitement is big yet again. I hope they give Edwards the reigns from Day #1 and see what the kid can do in Gailey’s player tailored schemes.
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Glad you’re back.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
First time post
Great job with the site guys. The articles are always well written.
I’m of the opinion that if Edwards and brohm end up 1 and 2, in the event that they both get hurt or both play terrible, wouldn’t it make more sense to play your project guy at that point rather than fitz who would be attempting to save a season that at that point would likely be lost? I think maybe he gets cut for that reason. If they see fitz as number 2 and brohm as the project, then that’s a more difficult decision.
by Pete Andolina on Jul 26, 2010 9:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Welcome to posting! It’s funny how you feel about the #3 role, in that it’s markedly different than the way I feel. That’s cool, and I understand your points.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the blog. Post more often. We are nice guys (and gals).
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
One more factor I’d throw into the decision making process – has the coaching staff categorically ruled out that the QB of the future is on the team? If that is the case, then the balance is going to favor guys who can manage the offense for a couple years until THE QB is acquired. This might make the decision between Brohm and Brown – keep the guys who we know can at least manage the game and keep one guy with upside just as an investment.
If they are still of the mind that maybe one of these guys can be a long term answer, then the balance might favor potential. In that case, Fitzy is likely the odd man out, with Edwards also demanding consideration to be cut.
I agree with the point you raise, but think that comes down to keeping an Edwards or Fitzpatrick as backup. Brohm hasn’t proven anything more than Brown re: leading an offense, to be fair.
Except that you know, he has at least played in an NFL game...
plus preseason…I know he didn’t play well, but to say that he hasn’t done anything more than Brown ignores that he has a year in the NFL, experienced a game as a starter, experienced getting cut and placed on the PS, he has learned three different playbooks in the NFL, and has experienced horrid coaching (Jauron).
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not discounting that he has more NFL study time, but that wasn’t the point I was addressing. His very limited play in actual NFL time has been underwhelming. He has literally not shown the ability to actually lead an offense in the NFL any more than Brown. Fitz and Edwards have at least shown that ability. I don’t say any of this in support or to the detriment of any of the 4 QBs, it’s just worth noting for fairness.
Well, I disagree...
the reason I think it is unfair to say that about Brohm is because he didn’t lay a turd out there when the deck was totally stacked against him. He could have come out and just Losman’d-up the whole thing, but he didn’t, he fought through the adversity of having no experience in the playbook (the playbook itself was a problem), with no coaching help, very little time to prepare, and no experience as a starter on a team that had all but quit. I am not saying Brohm will be great, but I do believe that the one game we got to see, was not as bad as I expected. And IMO, Brohm looked better than Fitz last year as a starter. I can’t get over Fitz not being able to complete a pass.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I’m just sayin they’re both unproven as far as really leading an offense. He came in and performed alright, granted. I would be just fine with taking him as #2 over Fitz if that’s how things work out. I’m not really pulling for any of the quarterbacks at this point, I’ll support whomever is left on opening day. I just think if we classify the QBs who have proven they can take the field in the NFL and take over the offense (for better or worse) then it is Edwards and Fitzpatrick, then Brohm and Brown. Brohm is ahead of Brown by virtue of having actually been put in there, but it was a pretty meaningless amount of playing time that one could assume almost anyone would have a chance of coming in and doing decent for such a short period of time.
I dunno if I understand this logic
If they are still of the mind that maybe one of these guys can be a long term answer, then the balance might favor potential.
If they find their potential in one guy, doesn’t that free up the other spots for players not based on potential?
I’ve kicked this around a little more – its a sliding scale with one end terminating at “None of these guys are the Answer.”
If none of these guys are the answer, then you’re looking for someone who can at least play a little, help the rest of the team develop, maybe manage few wins.
If they are open to considering one of these guys as a long(er) term answer, then they might take the known commodities who they KNOW are never going to be THE guy off the table (cut them). It might be Edwards, it might be Brohm, it might be Brown – I think we all agree we know what we have in Fitz, we just might not agree on his role.
Anyway, if the staff is open to considering guys on the roster, then their MO is going to be to test these guys and see what they have. They might have their eye on one guy, maybe all three.
Anyway, its not that significant a factor, I don’t think, unless they have decided none of these guys are any good.
Edwards leads the pecking order.
This is my opportunity to be wrong. Edwards is the story line for Gailey. In my opinion if Gailey can turn Edwards around then he will become a coaching god. Considering the reports of what Gailey has done with QB’s of equal and lesser abilities makes Edwards the shoe in for the starting QB job in September. The same argument can be made for Brohm. Edwards #1 Brohm #2, until Edwards falters and then Brohm becomes the starter going forward. Thus making Fitzpatrick the odd man out and of greater value on the market in a preseason trade. This is what I believe will happen.
What I want to happen is the opposite. Fitzpatrick leads the team in 2010 with Brohm on his heals waiting for the opportunity. Hands down Fitzpatrick has demonstrated that he can run a dysfunctional system and produce the type of leadership required for an offense to move in the right direction. Just imagine what he can do with a functional offense, one with a running game to support his incompletions, one with a offensive line that will allow him to hit an open receiver instead of throwing it into a closed window. The same could be said for Edwards to some extent, but with Edwards when he shuts down, you might not see him return for a couple weeks or months as with Fitzpatrick it is only a couple series.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Hahaaha
if Gailey can turn Edwards around then he will become a coaching god.
No, that would be the coach that can turn around J. Russell. Fixing Edwards will take a surgeon who specializes in testicular transplants.
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a opening drive
Where the Bills fans of tomorrow dream of TDs
And wins for a change
Fitzpatrick is a leader
and appears to have the respect of his teammates. That ought to count for something among the Bills brass.
I have a feeling that Fitz will end up as a coach somewhere after his playing days are over.
The reason it might not count for anything is that Fitzy is not going to be the long term answer and so the coaches might disregard him altogether and focus on players who might have a shot (however slim) to be the long-term answer.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jul 26, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
But Fitz IS the long-term answer as the main back-up QB, and that is an important role on any team.
by Macktruck on Jul 26, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not to mention
that he can read the advanced defensive schemes on the field as well as off the field, where the the other three have not adjusted, had the game experience or never been in that situation before. Having Fitz on the roster is like having another coach on the sideline. Not to mention that these inaccuracy statements are so exaggerated not to mention correctable with more preparation and better protection.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I hear all about this “respect of his teammates” stuff time and again, when talking about FItzy. To me, that notion is present largely because we saw how well Owens liked him. He took chances and threw the ball down the field, even when it was ill-advised. He honestly reminds me of a more cerebral Losman.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear all about this "respect of his teammates" stuff time and again, when talking about FItzy. To me, that notion is present largely because we saw how well Owens liked him.
There is very little information to prove this, I agree. I often referred to the respect thing because this is what I seen in the other ten players on the field when he played. It had nothing to do with Owens. Nothing at all. It had everything to do with the other players on the field. The fact that Fitzpatrick had confidence in his O-Line to drop back and make a long throw was more important to the team than it was the WR on the other end of it. Fitzpatrick never resorted to the check down mode that Edwards has become famous for. Fitzpatrick would pull the trigger prematurely way to often because his time restraints in the pocket thus creating his inaccuracy issues. Still he would try to put his players in a position to contribute Vs just his running backs and tight ends. I am a firm believer that he had more respect of the entire offense and it had nothing to do with Owens. Owens was used to thin out the box. Better protection would of helped the entire team.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Actually (and i’d love to see some stats on the matter), I think Fitzpatrick did his fair share of checking down. Too often was the case where that pass would hit receivers at the shin.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
In defense of all the QB's on the roster last year
Checking down was a large part of the game plan last season, none of them had the time to pick and chose. Edwards did the least in trying to sell the other. He was checking down before the ball was snapped so it seemed. The other two, namely Fitzpatrick at least made some reads before checking off. Either way I am not trying to sell people on Fitzpatrick. I believe we all want what is best for the team. I also believe that the more angles we look at things will help us get to that point. You can save the stats for yourself, not a big fan of statistical subjectivity.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
If the unfortunate arises where the QB is forced to throw to his checkdown, i’d much rather it be Edwards than Fitzpatrick.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And this is why
Brian Brohm is so important this season and our O-Line improves this year. This way we will have a glimmer of hope in the future.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
or bounce 5 yds in front of them...
Seriously, where is all this Fitz love coming from. Nice guy, great story, horrible QB.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And good coming off the bench. That’s all you want in a back up. Nobody expected Frank Reich to be the 2nd coming of Jim Kelly. But he was serviceable when needed. As long as Fitz can make the right throws 15 times a game when needed, & hand off the ball without fumbling, that’s all we need out of him. He is more than smart & competent enough to do that.
Now if TE or whoever the #1 goes down in week 2, then we’re in trouble. But then, most teams would be as well.
Frank Reich!?!
Please do not compare Fitz to Frank Reich, the best pure back-up QB the NFL has ever seen. It seems that there are two groups of fans posting on this…the ones that believe that the back-up QB should be able to take the snap, be able to hand off to the RB, and make a few throws when asked; and then there is the group that wants to keep the three best QBs with the whole rebuilding effort in mind.
Let me also say that if we were to cut Fitz, we could do it this year with no cap ramifications for next year due to the uncapped salary-year rules.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
And it seems there are two groups on here that are posting on this – those that care about the team succeeding, & those that get wrapped up in all the contact BS. Personally I don’t even look at all that crap.
The contract didn't really have anything to do with it...
I was just stating a reality that the FO may take into account. And BTW, I do want the team to succeed, it’s not really cool to say that someone who posts here daily does not want the team to win. We simply disagree on the back-up QB pecking order, no need to get upset.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not upset dude
I just think that sometimes people (not yourself necessarily) get too wrapped up in all th contract & numbers crap.
No hard feelings bro, we’re both on the same team here. And I think we agree more than we realize.
BTW
if you want to place a side bet ( & I DO NOT gamble AT ALL) on Fitz gettin cut, I could really use the money.
haha...
you’re speaking to a betting man and the odds are that Fitz is safe. I posted below that while I would like to see Fitz get cut for many reasons, there are a few that will probably out weigh my hopes for his release.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If you pass the bet up NorCal, I'll take that bet. I'm a betting man also.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
scrambling abilities
Does the propensity to run figure into any of this? Or how about size? TE is the biggest & likely has the strongest arm. Fitz is the smallest & has been known for his scrambling, but TE’s run stats are comparable. Brohm is also known as a capable runner. Brown is questionable in arm strength and run ability compared to the others, but has good size.
CC Infantino
Much like the draft, I have no freaking clue what will happen
if he can’t use those assets to win a simple training camp competition, it’ll be time for the Bills to cut their losses.
I would add that Edwards needs to win it by a wide margin. If not, then why keep him? With all his game experience, he should be able to show significant separation from Brohm. My biggest fear with Edwards is that he pulls a Jauron on us…….plays well enough at the start to get everyone excited, gets a big fat extension, then collapses.
What happens with Fitz will tell us if CHIX are willing to go all in or play it safe. One thing is certain, Fitz has hit his ceiling. If the Bills don’t want to draft a QB in 2011 and believe Edwards/Brohm/Brown can be the man, then there is little point in keeping Fitz. You keep your 3 most talented QBs. If CHIX are planning for the worst….Edwards and Brohm collapse and Brown not ready…..then they have to keep Fitz. Fitz won’t get you to the playoffs, but will win you enough games to keep you from picking in the top 5. Not a good thing if you want to draft a QB, IMO. Money wise, I don’t have an issue with keeping Fitz. Given what Edwards and Brohm are making, paying Fitz a little bit more this season than the average backup will not factor into the decision.
For me, it is simple. Edwards must be the clear cut number one QB or he gets the ax. The combination of his injury history and poor performances (not rising to the challenge) would make me very nervous about giving Edwards any kind of extension. If you are not going to extend him, then why keep him?
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a opening drive
Where the Bills fans of tomorrow dream of TDs
And wins for a change
Very True Joe, BUT
Edwards has repeatedly proven himself in all training camps and has not hurt himself to much in preseason games. His failures come after that, and for three years those failures have never improved. My argument is that when a QB for three years and counting plays well enough to get the nod and then fails miserably after that is not a encouraging sign to enter a fourth season with. Regardless of coaching and scheme. To me it is just a matter of time when he fails again and the team who has been there before fall with him.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Another way to look at it is how, essentially, you can view Edwards as having been traded to a new team. There have been numerous people here suggesting he very well may flourish with a new team—a new coach and a new scheme.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Hence the competition. Some one should be leaving. The question is how, who and when.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Or how many?!
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's hope it is not that bad
Hopefully, whoever is listed 1, 2 and 3, will have our entire training camp behind them.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I am not opposted to Edwards in theory
Reality is were the problem comes in. Edwards is in the last year of his contract, so CHIX don’t have very much time to figure out if Edwards is the guy. In a way, I think Edwards winning the starting QB job is the most risky outcome. What happens if he plays well for 3 games, then gets another one of his little injuries? Does he get a big fat new contract? Will he want to sign with the Bills if they won’t give him one? Do we really want to give a lot of money to a QB who can’t make it through a 16 game season let alone an 18 game season?
Now if Edwards is far and away the best QB in camp, wins the starting job, and plays all 16 games while showing he is willing to make all the throws, then great, we got our guy……who will probably want Brady money ;-)
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a opening drive
Where the Bills fans of tomorrow dream of TDs
And wins for a change
What happens if he plays well for 3 games, then gets another one of his little injuries? Does he get a big fat new contract? Will he want to sign with the Bills if they won’t give him one? Do we really want to give a lot of money to a QB who can’t make it through a 16 game season let alone an 18 game season?
i think you just answered your own question
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Jul 26, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankenback, Frankenback!
Somebody stated a couple months ago how great it would be if we could combine Edwards/Fitz/Brohm & make the ultimate QB. But since modern scienceis not to that point, Frankenstein was science fiction, and not to mention how ugly that would be, it’s not a feasible solution.
I’m with Joe P. I have no idea how this was to shake out. It appears obvious to me that it boils down to Edwards & Brohm as the starter. If I were Gailey, I may not cut anybody. After I declared the starter, my most important decision is not who is the #3, but who is the #2. Then, say if Fitz wins that battle (and I think he would) I put Brohm at #3 and roll the dice with Levi on the PS. If Brohm really stinks up the joint in preseason & can’t shake his demons, then he gets cut, Levi gets the #3 and save the PS spot for someone else like a lineman. Let’s face it, if one of these guys doesn’t make a complete 180 from their respective pasts under this new system, we will be drafting a (hopefully) franchise QB next year (if there is one) anyway. I don’t think someone taking Levi off the PS would be the end of the world. Question – if that were to happen, do the Bills get some type of compensation like a draft pick next year?
Question – if that were to happen, do the Bills get some type of compensation like a draft pick next year?
Nope, no compensation. But the team that takes him has to count him on the 53 man roster, they cant take him and then stick him on their PS.
Old school Bills tattoo [ √ ] Old school Sabres tattoo [ √ ] ... see the avatar.
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That sucks. It seems like you should at least get a 7th rounder or something. Oh well. I still kind of agree with what Afghan said above regarding Levi. We got him in the 7th, even though Gailey/Nix supposedly had him rated higher. If he gets plucked, have a nice career Levi. Now, that completely changes if Gailey sees something in this kid to where he actually thinks he can be groomed into a starter in 2-3 years. I haven’t seen enough on any of these guys in the new system to really say. But to date I haven’t really heard anything that would make me think Levi is going to be anything special.
Another study i’d love to see is how many QBs drafted (wherever that may have been) and placed at the bottom of the depth chart ever pan out.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
That’d be really hard to figure out. You mean players who were at the bottom of the depth chart for an opening day roster? Recent QBs would include Warner (#3 for the 1998 season), Brady (#4 but eventually #2 in the 2000 season), and Marc Bulger (cut in preseason twice, then behind Warner and Martin)…
Judging from the ’73 Chargers game log, Dan Fouts was third on the depth chart in his rookie season, but that was behind the nearly-retired Unitas and forgettable Wayne Clark, and he started the last half of the season. Speaking of Unitas, he was cut the Steelers eighteen years earlier for being the fourth-best QB on the roster that only needed three QBs.
by Krenn on Jul 26, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Krenn
Yes. This is exactly what I am looking for. Part of me says c ya later to many of these “scrubs”, but then again I’ve known deep down in my gut that there are just as many IF NOT MORE QB’s that are drafted late or even undrafted that pan out to be just as effective as the high pick “franchise” QB’s. TIHS is whatt I am HOPING for in Brohm.
There are great attributes in all 3, and it would probably make for 1 complete package when you combine them all, but…
You could also just create 1 single QB that 31 other teams still want nothing to do with. I don’t want to feel that way. Please let training came and preseason show us these guys have matured.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I voted Fitzy… because I think he is the worst QB of the list.
Old school Bills tattoo [ √ ] Old school Sabres tattoo [ √ ] ... see the avatar.
Lets Go Buffalo!!
I agree with that if you mean talent wise. But he is also the smartest of all of them. And when you have a guy coming in off the bench, you want that. You don’t expect your 2nd stringer to come in & light up the scoreboard. You just want him to manage the game & not lose it for you. If we’re talking cuts, I think Fitz is safest for that reason alone.
So what's the point in kepping Fitz?
I agree with that if you mean talent wise
Why keep a guy around that won’t ever help this team get to the Super Bowl?
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but the team that has Peyton Manning already has Peyton Manning, and all they need to do is actually back him up. The Bills are in a situation where they need to find a QB of the future, whether he’s on the roster or not. They want to maximize the chance of finding that QB on this roster by jettisoning the ones they feel for sure will not be. So that’s the point being raised by those disagreeing with you.
And I don't disagree with that
What I am saying is that I think Gailey will try to find “his guy”, fit a system around him as he has done tin the past and go from there. I never said that Fitz was that guy. Fits is a solid #2 and THAT IS ALL. I think we all know that and if not you’ve been sleeping under a rock. The point I’m trying to make is that you find your #1, put Fitz at #2, either Brohm or Brown at #3, and the other either gets cut or in Brown’s case put on the practice squad. If somebody snatches up Brown, oh well (although I think we should get SOMETHING.). If Our starter doesn’t pan out or gets hurt early on (most likely in TE’s case), then we move on & get our guy next year. It’s really not rocket science.
I wasn’t really agreeing with the others I was just trying to help clear up the case they were making.
Their point is that Gailey may think Edwards is the best guy to start this year, and that Brohm and Brown offer a chance at being the QB they want in the future. See, in this scenario they don’t think Edwards is the man for the future, just the best for this year. So they keep those three and ditch Fitz who offers no chance at being the QB of the future. I’m not saying he should do that. Frankly I don’t really even care because they’re going to have to bring in someone else at some point to be the real #1. But this is the case others are making and it’s pretty reasonable.
I don’t see how it is idiotic really, their case makes as much sense as yours. I see two equally valid approaches and not one that is idiotic, and not one that is fullproof. In fact I see very little difference between them, since having a quality back-up isn’t going to mean much for the team’s fortunes and on the flipside I don’t think their future QB is on the roster.
Right
That is what I was trying to basically say. Sorry again if anyone was insulted.
On brighter note, I went 7 saw Uncle Ted last night & i am still stoked to the gills. If you have never seen him I highly suggest doing so. the man is a LEGEND.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time I have called an idiot...
but my logic comes from not believing that Fitz is even a solid #2 guy, IMO, if Fitz gets cut, he is out of the NFL forever.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well then
we agree. I never said he was anything other than a soiid #2. An some (myself included) may even argue that. He’s the best we have at #2, he’ll NEVER be a #1. Sorry no insult was intended.
None taken...
at least we reached a consensus on one thing…
he’ll NEVER be a #1. : )
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So in conclusion
IMHO -
- Edwards (puke)/ Brohm (maybe, who knows)
- Fitz (because he is the smartest MF on the team) & dolid at back up not spectacular
- Brohm/Brown
PS – either Brown or nobody depending on who is cut
That is probably how it will shake-out....
but I hope we let Fitz go and we go after T. Smith of Bal.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
protections
Camp may not be the deciding factor. The preseason may determine how effective our protection schemes are, which could determine who the starting QB will be. Should the protection schemes not be effective in preseason, would that favor one QB over another going into the first game?
CC Infantino
Or who can run backwards towards the high snap the quickest.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Brohm
Is it just me, but is all this love for Brohm everyone’s consolation to the Bills not drafting a QB high in the draft? Some kind of grass is always greener mentality? What I see in Brohm if he wins the QB competition, is inconsistency, and inexperience reading NFL defenses. The best we can hope for is Trent to emerge, and to see if he can finally put it all together with the help of better team preperation by the new coaching staff.
I am 100% with you on that. I would love to see that happen.
CC Infantino
by lostlasvegan on Jul 26, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The grass isn't greener......we haven't had any freaking green grass since Flutie
I seem to remember Trent having trouble reading 3-4 defenses…right? And do you really want to use consistency as a defense of Edwards? If it happens, great, but why would that be better than Brohm finally doing the same thing? Again, if Edwards can’t step up and be the clear cut best QB of the group, why keep him?
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a opening drive
Where the Bills fans of tomorrow dream of TDs
And wins for a change
I remember last year saying he hadn’t seen the defense in practice that he saw during the game – that screems poor coaching to me
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Jul 26, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
screams inexperience as well
which seems odd. i feel like at this point in an individual’s career, not many things should be totally new to you. and you have to think it’s not inconceivable for a defense to scheme for your offense, and maybe change things they normally do. what screams poor coaching is their consistant inability to make adjustments, during individual plays, or throughout whole games.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 26, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Trent will certainly see plenty of 3-4 D in the next few weeks. Perhaps this is just what he needed. Maybe this will lead to less checkdowns. I believe it will be TE, Brohm & Brown in that order and Fitz will find a backup gig elsewhere. I also believe that there is a 50-50 chance we will have another QB in camp before 9/1.
CC Infantino
by lostlasvegan on Jul 26, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
let's hope so, on BOTH counts... especially the first. not just because we are running it, but because he is still out there.
Well, Trent will certainly see plenty of 3-4 D in the next few weeks.Perhaps this is just what he needed.
i do believe it can only help his development to be exposed to the defense he obviously struggled most with.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 26, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, very well said, to many Bills fans our putting to much hope onto the Brohm bandwagon.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Jul 26, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted Fitz...
I would like to see Fitz go, I simply dont see the reasoning in keeping him around other than to placate the masses which I dont think Gailey cares about. I doubt Fitz gets cut unless Brown impresses enough in preseason to where Gailey thinks someone will snatch him up off the P.S.
I believe it will be #1 Edwards, #2 Brohm, # Fitz with Brown on P.S. (and he will be safe there).
If it were up to me though, I would have #1 Edwards, #2 T. Smith (from Bal-trade for him or sign him after he is cut), #3 Brohm with Brown on the P.S., cutting Fitz.
I am in the camp of keeping the most talented QBs on your team, which eleminates Fitz. I like what the Eagles have done in the past (Feeley/McNabb) and the Falcons (Schaub) by trading their young backups or established veterans away for good picks when they had either an established veteran QB in place or a potential franchise QB. We dont have that yet, but that doesn’t mean that we dont coach these players up now, draft our future QB next year, and see where it goes. Keep the best players, we are not even a playoff-caliber team and people want to keep an expensive, no-upside career backup on the team just in case, to help squeak out a few ugly wins insuring that we miss out on the next great young QB in next years draft.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 2:22 PM EDT reply actions
Bye Bye Fitzy...
Fitz is what he is, he has reach his professional plateau there is no upside ahead in his career. That’s not to say he is a bad QB he would be a safe choice as a spot starter or as the number #2 on the right team.
The Bills at this time need to build for the future they have to make tough QB decisions. They have to know if Edwards, Brohm or Brown can lead the team in the future if not they will move on an draft or sign someone else.Unfortunately for Fitz he is the odd man out….
.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
No longer Brunell, right?
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Song recommendation of the week: Minus the Bear - My Time
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jul 26, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am absolutely astonished at these poll results.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 26, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
Me too. i didn’t vote because I’m not sure if any will be cut. But there is clearly some kind of hatred towards Fitz that I just don’t see. This isn’t about who will be the starter after all.
I wouldn’t call it “hatred.” But it’s still surprising to me.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 26, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No hatred at all....
I wish Fitz well if he is the one to go… He’ll still be around for years to come, if Todd Collins can last as long as he did so can Fitz…
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
I voted Fitzy because I think CHIX are not interesting in going 7-9
I am hoping they roll the dice with the QBs with the most talent.
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a opening drive
Where the Bills fans of tomorrow dream of TDs
And wins for a change
by Joe P. on Jul 26, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
I am hoping they roll the dice with the QBs with the most talent.
Fitz is the smartest, most-prepared, but he has the least amount of football skill.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 26, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess
I see very little upside to Fitz.
by Mindbender14 on Jul 26, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
as I am absolutely astonised by the vanishing of green thumbs up – bring them back down brian – for the sake of the green thumbs up – bump it back down
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Jul 26, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe that Levi Brown doesn't have more votes
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
We haven't see enough of him to want him gone......besides.....kids has got a cannon :-)
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a opening drive
Where the Bills fans of tomorrow dream of TDs
And wins for a change
That’s who I voted for.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 26, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitz had his moments last year
and had the longest TD pass in Bills history. This does not mean he was accurate though, because he was not at all. What I liked about him was that he had more balls than Trent to go deep and had some swagger.
With that said, I think that Fitz worked better under the hap-hazardly style of play calling of last year. Trent and Brohm both fit the style of QB play that Gailey likes (smart and accurate?)
Trent will start the season and loses it to Brohm at some point in the season. Brown stays on as the 3rd and Fitz is cut.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Backups?
We’re talking about backups?!?!?!?!?!
You know you’re in for a long season when we are having this kind of discussion right before TC starts.
Oh well.
Of course I played along……and said Fitz is the goner……..only because if he Doesnt win the job he’s being paid the most money to contribute little…….
So IMO if he doesnt win the job………He’s looking for a new one.
Chan Gailey's #1 Fan!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 26, 2010 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
We’re talking about backups?!?!?!?!?!
pretty sure we hit on every position and the backups to those players – shouldn’t be a surprise….
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Jul 26, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I was trying to channel my inner Allen Iverson.
lol.
Chan Gailey's #1 Fan!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 26, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
practice? are we talking about practice? practice…?
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Jul 26, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm....
Did I miss something? Why are we talking about QB’s when star player Joe Klopfenstein is out for the season? Who cares if we have a QB when The Klop won’t be there to catch it? Priorities, people.
Klophenstin
Try saying his name with a few beers in you. Same with Stupar.
CC Infantino
by lostlasvegan on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was about to post a meaningful comment about this topic but we really have NO Idea what is going to happen until training camp at least starts.
If by “meaningful” you mean “accurate a month from now,” then perhaps it’s wise to abstain. We wouldn’t ask right now if we didn’t find your opinion “meaningful.”
by Brian Galliford on Jul 26, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
59% for Fitzpatrick surprises me.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 26, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions
it seems as though
many people feel like he is "peaked’ in a way, and we know what we have, and it isn’t a prototypical franchise QB. odd, for people who embrace Flutie, and i kinda think the two are similar.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That general consensus isn’t wrong. I just don’t see why that means he’ll get cut.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 27, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions
unless they believe that Edwards can actually lead them to the playoffs
we are likely to see him pulled as soon as the losing starts, or doesn’t end, and Brohm or Brown will get the go. I believe they would rather have 3 guys with some potential to mold than keep Fitzy and accept that he can go in off the bench, and maybe hopefully win one. that doesn’t help a rebuild. It’s playoffs or draft spot. that’s all i meant. I think that Brown even holds the advantage on Brohm, as CHIX brought him in, they wanted him, they drafted him, and are likely to have him on the roster to not get snatched up off the practice squad. Brohm can run PS one more year (right?) and then be gone, should he not perform well enough to earn a roster spot.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 27, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do many people feel like he is peaked.
His entire career he has been a back up QB. He played behind Carson Palmer, then Trent Edwards. Both QB’s were established starting QB’s for their teams with Ryan as a back up. Both times he filled in for the injured starting QB it has been behind porous O-Line play. Both times he filled in for the injured starting QB it has been with two excellent wide outs but with teams that couldn’t pass protect or run the ball very well. Still both times he was not the reasons for them losing games, he was the reason for keeping them in games and he was a back up. This year he has his first chance to compete for something other than a back up. By far he should not be discarded. He has not reached his peak yet which we shall see this offseason and his accuracy issues should show much improvement this offseason as well. He has had more game experience under pressure than the others because each play he treats as a new opportunity Vs an immediate check down because of an allignment that confuses him before the snap.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
many people feel he has peaked
in that he has shown his limitations… he is not terribly accurate. he doesn’t have a very strong arm. his footwork is less than precise. he is not terribly poised in the pocket… i mean, he makes plays with his feet more often than not… and that is not a prototypical franchise QB. that is all i am saying. He is what he is, and he is a “career backup” by most people’s standard. Is he the “Kelly”? NO. He is not even the “Reich”. Edwards is probably more “Reich” than “Kelly” as well…. so we are probably in the market for a “Kelly” next year. and not a Kelly Holcomb. ; )
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Jul 27, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Tangent...
but still on the topic of QBs. I was reminded today that Aaron Rodgers was sacked an NFL-leading 50 times in 2009. Talk about a green (pun kinda intended) offensive line.
just raises my anxiety level around the thought that our QB woes are more (or at least equally) tied to lack of talent than surrounding factors like poor protection and discontinuous coaching.
I gotta think that either Edwards or Fitz is gonna get the boot simply to allow coaches to learn more about the two unknowns – Brohm/Brown. I can see CHIX keeping one of the vets simply because they’ve got a known quantity, but man I’m really hoping Brohm shows enough “jump” to at least earn the backup role.
And if Brohm can’t earn a backup role (gets outplayed by both fitz and edwards), we gotta let him go to give Levi Brown the same opportunity to prove himself – the kid lit it up the years he started as QB: 4,254 yards passing, 146.07 rating, 23 tds to 9 ints, 64% completion. True that it was in the Sunbelt, but also fair to say he dominated in the opportunities he had. Let’s let the “development project” have an opportunity to develop.
Brown might be the safest one on of the 4
I would be very surprised to see Brown get the axe after one pre-season, given that he is a “Nix-Gailey” guy and no one is expecting much out of him right away. A 7th round qb isn’t going to start and obviously there are going to be a boatload of different opinions about his skills and future in the NFL. The reason Nix picked him up is because he saw something he liked that other guys didn’t see.
From a purely political standpoint, it would be very surprising for Nix to say I liked everything I saw on his game tape, but after a few weeks of practice, I was wrong and he needs to go. From a practical standpoint, does anyone expect him to come out and really wow people after a few weeks of practice straight from Troy? Unless he turns out to be a clown a la big Ben and detrimental to the team, I assume he is a safe number three. It’s not like any of the other guys are the future, so why not stick with a guy you liked good enough to draft. If he doesn’t pan out and you cut him next year (potentially after spending pick 1 on a qb), no big deal.
by Squirmin' Thurman on Jul 27, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
also – i’m not saying this is the best approach for the team, but it’s the way it seems to play out the most often in the NFL with new guys coming in
by Squirmin' Thurman on Jul 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
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