Bills Won't Need To Cut Five Next Week

by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2010 9:32 AM EDT in Buffalo Bills News

Note: this article used to be entitled "Bills Still Have Two Roster Spots Open." Thanks to an email from reader Greg, we're able to correct our lie-laced article from this morning. Many thanks, Greg, and apologies for the erroneous reporting.

The Buffalo Bills had been humming along at the NFL-maximum of 80 players on their active roster, but a spate of injuries has led to a flurry of roster activity over the past few days. The team placed rookies Marcus Easley and Danny Batten on IR, and also waived/injured Michael Matthews and John Destin. In turn, the Bills signed two tight ends - J.P. Foschi and Andrew George. They lost four and gained two, but here's why the Bills don't have two free roster spaces.

Because both Easley and Batten are unvested veterans, they still count against the active roster until next week's first cut-down (August 31). The Bills were essentially faced with a choice: expose Easley and Batten to waivers so that they could place them on IR after they cleared waivers so that those two roster spots were freed up, or place them on IR, eat the two roster spaces for a week, and only need to cut three players to get down to 75 next Tuesday. Obviously, the Bills chose the latter.

This also properly explains why the Bills waived both Destin and Matthews - they literally didn't have the roster space to sign Foschi and George, even though Easley and Batten were already on IR. For more explanation on the rules, see this release regarding Detroit's Jordon Dizon, or this regarding Chicago's Harvey Unga.

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is this one of those things where having open roster spots kinda hurts the team? On a team like this, don’t you want as many guys competing as possible? I mean, smoke if ya got ’em.

by quantumuprising on Aug 25, 2010 8:07 AM EDT reply actions

Tight ends of most concern

Chan has already made it clear that injuries at running back have limited the options the offense can use to practice in preseason (i.e., no two-back sets). With only Stupar knowledgeable in this offense, you’ve got to imagine that further limits what they can do. Assuming the two new street free agents are only able to handle the basics at this point. The upshot is that the offense will unlikely be full go at the start of the season.

It’s early days yet with this management crew, but our experience so far would seem to indicate that Buddy has something up his sleeve. It’s unusual for an NFL team to leave the door open like this, with no plan in place. It would be worth looking at a couple more guys, even if you cut them in a week. Who knows, you might uncover a gem needing some polish, someone who excels on special teams, a Jason Peters willing to work in anonymity on the practice squad for a year.

by Defensewinsgames on Aug 25, 2010 8:11 AM EDT reply actions

I've always thought it was odd that teams have to cut five players, from 80 to 75

and then a week later cut 22 more players down to 53. Why is that first day even there if it’s so much of a difference?

Blame where you must, be candid where you can, And be each critic the Good-natured Man. - Oliver Goldsmith (Excellent advice)

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by Dyl on Aug 25, 2010 8:14 AM EDT reply actions

i don’t think corto has a chance of making this team regardless, so i wouldn’t be surprised if he gets cut for part of the 75-man roster.

NOW we get ready for the Next game and in LESS then a month ALL of you my friends BUFFALO NATION WILL see your BUFFALO BILLS KICK THE soul out of the TUNA FISH FLIPPER ACE VENTURA OILY FLAUNDER NO TAIL SHAMUU WHANA BE .
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by the_prophet on Aug 25, 2010 8:21 AM EDT reply actions

I say just leave the two spots open.

Unless you find a UA that you think is worth wild to sign, leave it open. Makes things less complicated at cut time and will give the remaining players a bit more confidence knowing that the team isn’t rushing out to sign players to replace them.

Personally theres only one guy that I’d like to see the Bills sign: Steve Heiden.

Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.

by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2010 8:50 AM EDT reply actions

I dont think we’ll bring anyone else in. Maybe after the 75 player cut we bring in someone…. but I say leave it as is for now.

Where else would you rather be?

by bflo on Aug 25, 2010 8:59 AM EDT reply actions

Even better, wait until Sept. 4 to see who becomes available on the waiver wire before making any other personnel moves.

by Macktruck on Aug 25, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok so Easley and Batten aren’t officially on IR until after the first cut down….

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by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions

No, they ARE officially on IR. They just count against the active roster in the process.

@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Wow, you are doing your homework. Impressive…

I got nothing.

by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 25, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Well, no, Greg did the homework for me. Which I think means I copied his. :)

@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Cheater! And I thought you were supposed to be a good example for the rest of us!

"...and dance by the light of the moon!"

by bflogrl on Aug 25, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

And when I tried to give you credit…

"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards

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by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 25, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Not having to cut, not a good position to be in

I would rather us have some extra guys available to fight it out over some final roster spots. I think competition is good and we all know we need talent.

It isn’t OBD’s fault, the injuries caused this, but I would love to see more talent out there competing for the final spots.

I got nothing.

by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 25, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions

It isn’t OBD’s fault,

Wow. I never thought I would see that line in one of your posts…..

No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.

by sireric on Aug 25, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions

well

I will blame them for finding injury proned players ;-)

I got nothing.

by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 25, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

It comes down to whether or not they want to risk losing Easley and Batten on waivers to have a guy come in for a week only to get cut again. Clearly, they liked both of their drafted rookies enough for that not to happen.

That rule is stupid, if you ask me. If a guy’s on IR, he’s on IR. Let some other young guys get a shot.

@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

IR

I’ve never understood why the IR list means the whole season. Can you explain why they can’t come back?

"Football's gotta be dangerous. It's gotta be labor and pains." -Deacon Jones

by Undee on Aug 25, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

LMGTFmyself

…owners felt that some teams were illegally using the injured reserve list to stash players who weren’t really injured to circumvent the rules on roster limits (to gain a competitive advantage).

linkyfied

And that sucks for the players.

"Football's gotta be dangerous. It's gotta be labor and pains." -Deacon Jones

by Undee on Aug 25, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t understand how Easley and Batten could be called “unvested veterans” (or any kind of veterans). Why aren’t they rookies?

2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo

by thefourwinds on Aug 25, 2010 10:21 AM EDT reply actions

A rookie is an unvested veteran. Which I agree, doesn’t make sense when considering the terms “rookie” and “veteran,” but in this case “veteran” is more category than label.

@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions

It seems to me

In their terminology “Veteran” just means “employee”. I can see where in this case where the only terms that apply are vested and unvested because everyone at training camp is an employee of an NFL team, and their years of service does not apply. I’m not sure how long it takes to become “vested” in the NFL… I would imagine as long as you haven’t been on the active roster during the season you are unvested. So any rookies, plus any of the practice squad guys would be unvested?

Just thinking out loud.

by syrbillsfan on Aug 25, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Ross Tucker says...

Ross Tucker was talking about this terminology this morning (his segment was discussing the NFL health insurance, which only kicks in for “Vested” veterans). Apparently, you need to be a 4-year player in the league to become “vested.” He had other interesting things to say relating to that topic, but that’s the “vested” requirement.

I wish I had a link to that audio to post, but I do have a Pat Kirwin article that mentions them here: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8085ee3e/article/even-in-the-offseason-nfl-education-never-ends

Funny how hard it is to find that definition though…

"We can't injure our elbows patting ourselves on the back." --Chan Gailey

by Caymon on Aug 25, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Players aren’t “vested veterans” until they’ve had four seasons worth of experience. So, they’re not called rookies because it’s not just the rookies who this rule applies to.

The other differences between vested and unvested (or at least a couple differences) is that unvested veterans have to go through waivers before becoming a free agent while vested players go straight to FA and can choose to sign with any team. And any vested veteran who makes the final 53 man roster gets his entire year’s salary guaranteed, but if an unvested player is released during the season, they only get paid for the games already played.

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Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.

by kaisertown on Aug 25, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs

Thanks for the details.

2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo

by thefourwinds on Aug 25, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

this post needs to be rec’d by everyone – good info kaiser

I'm not sure we have the tools or the talent....

by J2 on Aug 25, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Oops, you found it! I rec’d ya! Good info, kaisertown.

"We can't injure our elbows patting ourselves on the back." --Chan Gailey

by Caymon on Aug 25, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Because we haven’t seen ED Wang in qute a while is there a chance the Ed gets placed on IR too?

by morpheus123456 on Aug 25, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions

I think they will wait too make that move closer to the 22 man cutdown day

If he is no where near ready, I think then they look at that situation a lot hader, right now, not so much.

abayarde- "I SAY this get ready cause the BUFFALO BILLS ARE COMING TO TOWN and I dont mean like Santa clause. WE will not Surrender this is were you all FALL The WHAGON BLASTER IS TAKING OFF AND YOU PUNKS are in our way, This wagon has no BREAKS so get ready for the ride of the life time"

by WABillsfan on Aug 25, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

I bet he ends up on the PUP list to start the year...

that way if he is needed after wekk six, he can join the team. If not, he heads to IR.

Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford

by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 25, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions

The issue with PUP is you need to start camp ON that list to get the week 6 treatment

If you break camp as being able to practice, your stuck with IR as the only option if your going to have them on the roster and not count.

by WABillsfan on Aug 25, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Excellent clarification, cause I was definitely confused why the Bills had waived those two players (I mean I understand why they were specifically waived).

I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City

by Ghetts on Aug 25, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions

Okay, now that that's clarified, if they have to cut 3 next week, then who are they?

by Defensewinsgames on Aug 25, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions

Andre Anderson is the one obvious guy to me. The Bills are loaded at RB and Anderson hasn’t been used in the preseason. Buffalo can not only get by, but is probably better off sticking with Spiller, Bell and Simpson in the last preseason game and the last week or so of practices.

A WR makes sense. One of Hardy, Aaron Rhea and Naaman Roosevelt could be cut. Buffalo has 15 offensive lineman on the roster and they could cut one of them if somebody stands out as having a mediocre or worse camp. DB is a position where Buffalo is very deep, although I’m not sure how much playing time the staff would want to give them in the last preseason game. It’s a tough roster to guess at since there is so little depth and so many young players.

If I had to guess I’d say it’s Andre Anderson, Aaron Rhea and Corto or Lydell Sargeant. Obviously, the third preseason game will be a factor.

by kaisertown on Aug 25, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Question for Brian

Brian, how does Shawn Nelson figure into this? Is he suspended now in terms of not being on the roster, or does his suspension begin on Sept. 4? If he does not count now, wouldn’t the Bills only have to cut two players on August 31, or is my math wrong?

My guess is that he does count toward the roster until Sept. 4, which means we need to lop off 3 guys next Tuesday, but I wonder if you know for sure.

by Macktruck on Aug 25, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions

I’m pretty sure that Nelson counts against the 80 man roster until final cut downs when Buffalo can put him on the suspended list. Nelson can currently practice with the team and participate in participate in preseason games, so it makes sense that he counts against the roster.

by kaisertown on Aug 25, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions