The Aaron Schobel Retrospective
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2010 12:00 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills History
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PrintAaron Schobel was the second pick of the Tom Donahoe era during the 2001 NFL Draft. Yesterday, he was released by the only NFL team he has ever played for.
Upon being drafted, Schobel made an immediate impact for the Buffalo Bills, playing in every game and starting the final 11 while racking up 6.5 sacks as a rookie. As a high note, he sacked Patriots QB Tom Brady twice in each game as a rookie. In Gregg Williams' transition from the long-standing 3-4 defense to the 4-3, Schobel was a key cog along the new defensive line. In 2002 and 2003, he sacked opposing quarterbacks 8.5 and 11.5 times. 2003 also saw the Bills' lone win over the Patriots in Schobel's career.
When Mike Mularkey arrived in 2004, the Bills maintained the 4-3 defense. Schobel rebounded from an 8-sack performance in 2004 to record 12 in 2005 - alongside a career-high 54 tackles and support for the Pro Bowl. That team fell just one win short of making the playoffs, and was the only year the team was over .500 during Schobel's Bills career.
Under Dick Jauron and the new Tampa 2 defense, he finally broke through in 2006, and was elected to the Pro Bowl after posting a career-high 14 sacks, good for third-best in the NFL, to go along with 4 forced fumbles. Following this performance, the Bills rewarded Schobel with a lucrative 7-year, $50.25M contact with $20.25M guaranteed.
He made a return trip to Hawaii in 2007 despite contributing only 6.5 sacks. In 2008, Schobel missed 11 games when a nagging foot injury called Lisfranc fracture hobbled the Pro Bowler. The ailment leads to extreme pain in the foot caused by a dislocation or fracture in the bones in the arch of the foot, something that is detrimental for anyone trying to push off. Until the injury, Schobel had started 107 consecutive games for the Bills.
In 2009, Schobel experienced somewhat of a rebirth. He reached double-digit sacks (with 10) for the fourth time in his career, compiled 34 tackles, forced three fumbles, and made the biggest play of his career in the opener against New England. With the score knotted at 7-7 in the second quarter, Schobel read a screen pass being set up by Brady. He leaped, pulled down the lob designed to go over his head, and returned it 26 yards for the only touchdown of his career. Schobel also added to his sack total against former league MVP in that game; he has sacked Brady more than any other player - 12 times.
Upon Dick Jauron and Perry Fewell's dismissals, the Bills hired Chan Gailey as head coach, who hired George Edwards to transition to a 3-4. It's unclear whether the scheme change, the decade-long playoff drought, the distance from his family home in Texas, or actual retirement plans for the 32-year-old kept the defensive end from returning to Buffalo to play outside linebacker. When he didn't report to any off-season workouts, mandatory or otherwise, and failed to arrive at training camp, GM Buddy Nix decided it was time to move on Monday. By Wednesday morning, Nix released him, saying, "that was a fair thing to do for a guy who has played hard for us the past nine seasons."
Schobel ranks No. 54 in NFL history in sacks, and is tenth among active players, but has never played in a playoff game. In 2009, Buffalo Rumblings named Schobel the 31st-best player in Buffalo Bills team history before he rebounded for his last season.
Team Accolades:
- Second in team history with 78 career sacks (93 behind Bruce Smith and 16.5 ahead of Phil Hansen)
- Third in team history with 21 forced fumbles
- Eleventh in team history with 337 tackles
- Led the team in sacks in each of his first seven seasons in the NFL, eight times overall
- One of two Bills (Bruce Smith) with four 10-plus sack seasons
Good luck, Mr. Schobel.
There has been strong interest from both sides in Schobel joining the Houston Texans. It would reunite the DE with his former defensive line coach, Bill Kollar, and he would be an hour's drive from his house, playing in a 4-3, for a team that could turn the corner and make the playoffs.
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Yes
No matter how you feel about the recent situation of him hinting at retirement then getting his release Schobel was a bright spot for the Bills during an era of ineptitude.
2-Pro Bowls and 2nd in team history in sacks and the other accolades that Mitch listed pushes him onto the Wall of Fame. It is a shame that he never got to play in a playoff game and only played on 1 winning team in his 9 years in Buffalo…
Schobel is the type of player that didn’t showboat after his many sacks, never got in trouble and showed up every Sunday an gave his best.
Best of luck Aaron!!!
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
by Goose22 on Aug 5, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
rec'd...and sad that the vote is this close
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
No matter how you feel about the recent situation of him hinting at retirement then getting his release Schobel was a bright spot for the Bills during an era of ineptitude.
Maybe, but not wanting to honor his contract that the Bills offered him to retire as a Bufflo Bill makes me say no… And yes, just on principal.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
An the owners will honor all the contracts when?
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
Everyday… When have they not… The contract allows them to release players.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No the CBA has allowed for the release of players, and league rules in the absence of a CBA have allowed to release a layer. It is not written in contracts that a player can be released at any time because no self respecting player would ever sign a contract that say they can lose their job at any point.
In fact the NFL is the only pro north american sports league that has such release rules. In the NHL, NBA and MLB owners are forced to honour contracts until the end, or to buy out the entire contract if they want to get rid of the player.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
@CBF
No, the CBA has allowed for the release of players, and league rules in the absence of a CBA have allowed to release a layer. It is not written in contracts that a player can be released at any time because no self respecting player would ever sign a contract that say they can lose their job at any point.
This statement is contradictory…the CBA spells out how contracts can be made, the contracts are created and signed by both parties, no one forces the player to accept the contract as it is. And the absence of of any prohibition of releasing a player from the contract amounts to an ability by the team to release any player at any team. This year alone, there are some special rules in place which make it easier and financially-savvy to release a high-priced player. But back to the point, the CBA does not prohibit releasing a player, but not prohibiting it, then it is allowed.
I hate the argument “Well, the teams/owners don’t have to honor a contract”…because that is B.S., teams/FOs must honor the contracts. The players are the only ones who finagle themselves out of the contract using non-CBA approved methods whereas the teams will be taken to arbitration by the NFLPA if they choose to skirt the rules. The NFLPA approved the contract parameters that are currently being used, blame the players, not the owners. And BTW, NFL contracts are the best overall for everyone involved of all the leagues, the only major tweak needed is to the rookie-pay scale which is destroying our current system.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but not prohibiting → by not prohibiting
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it possible that you guys are just bitter that he didn’t want to be on this Bills team?
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
not really...
I have no idea if he would have been good as an OLB. I truly just wish we could have gotten something out of it
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
So do I.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
on that logic
ML is something of a bright spot, having landed a Pro Bowl appearance by default as well. Heck, didn’t Parrish go to the Pro Bowl? Sorry, but that hardly qualifies as significant any more. In fact, most guys go only because the true vets don’t even care to play, and the young guys go by default.
Also, 78 sacks in 9 years, and not even HALF of Bruce’s total? how did he stay on the roster soooo long at that geriatric total? My ten year old cousin could pressure the QB just as well, and SHE might be 70 lbs soaking wet.
I will agree that he showed up on Sunday, but that was probably out of guilt for how little work he did every other day. And as far as “gave his best”- that is almost just as disappointing as it is rewarding, if it is actually true. If the best he was, still barely did anything at all, and was hardly better than breaking even…. he is just as likely one of the reason we have teatered under .500 during his tenure (barring one year of actual offense via Bledsoe and Moulds.)
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
by Ren Diggity on Aug 5, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, 78 sacks in 9 yers, and not even HALF of Bruce’s total?
Why would you even try to compare the careers of these two? Seriously, Bruce Smith can only be compared to 2 other players, and we all know them without even mentioning their names.
I will agree that he showed up on Sunday, but that was probably out of guilt for how little work he did every other day.
Again, let’s try a comparison. This time, one which you failed to note. Schobel might not have been one for huge gains in practice or camp, but can you tell me Bruce Smith was? Schobel is also sometimes “credited” with disappearing in big games, or at moments of importance. The same things were said of Bruce on occasion.
My point is that you’re painting Aaron Schobel to be some hack of a player for this organization when compared to Bruce Smith, but in most area, those comparisons are unfair. Bruce was a #1 pick playing for a team that had talent ALL AROUND.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
haha come on Ren!
Bruce was the greatest sack artist in NFL history! Leonard Little has been a pass rushing force and played three more years than Schobel and hes on the same pace with 87 sacks, in fact hes on a slower pace!
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
leonard little is a pass rushing "force"
come on yourself Poz! : ) LEONARD LITTLE? lol. I realize i wasn’t being fair. I don’t really care that he isn’t on par w/ Bruce. But he isn’t even HALF as good as the guy, and he is getting all this praise, and for what? not working hard? not producing? not wanting to retire here, because we are inperpetual rebuild? If he and his fellow pass rushers had performed better, maybe we could have been in the playoffs. That was the point i was making. He didn’t make our defense THAT MUCH better.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
hahahahahahhah
Ok maybe he wasnt a “force” but he was a beast for a little while! hahhaha
I do think that Schobel made a bigger impact then we give him credit for. A list of our team records and our pass defense during his career:
2001: 3-13, 13th
2002: 8-8, 6th
2003: 6-10, 2nd
2004: 9-7, 3rd
2005: 5-11, 19th
2006: 7-9, 7th
2007: 7-9, 29th (but 8th in TDs given up through the air)
2009: 6-10, 2nd
Someone or something has made us great pass defenders this decade. Could it be that teams dont pass on us as much, maybe. Could it be Aaron Schobel, maybe. All I know is that this team has been pretty decent at pass defense this decade with minimal talent and the only consistents we’ve had are Terrence McGee and Aaron Schobel getting sacks.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
ok poz
sorry, but i don’t equate Pass Defense to Aaron Schobel. I mean, he did have those 2 INTs but…. I would rather see where we ranked in sacks those years. Because, if my math is right, then the guy didn’t manage to get one a game, every game. That means he is not a force in my book. If you can’t find a way, one time, all game, when that is all you are getting paid to do, then you aren’t working hard enough, or aren’t good enough.
As far as what made us good pass defenders….. our cornerbacks who we select in the first 3 rounds every other year does have to factor in to SOME extent here. Maybe having a former DB for a coach… I don’t think Schobel necessarily helped us as much as he helped his pocket.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
if my math is right
Bruce Smith played in 217 games for the Bills and racked up 171 sacks. Thats not one a game every game either. Asking that of any defensive end or 3-4 OLB is really not fair or plausible.
How can Schobel, who is 2nd in sacks in our team history not have contributed mightly to having consistently played on great pass defenses?
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
ok...
bruce averaged a sack every 1.2 games, and schobel, every 1.7.
Asking it of any defensive end or 3-4 OLB is unfair? Ok….. exactly 1 per game is unfair. But lets say someone actively playing still like, for example, Jared Allen has 72 sacks in 93 game (one every 1.29 games), DeMarcus Ware 64.5 in 80 games (one every 1.24 games),John Abraham, who is the closest comparison with 129 games and a total of 89.5 sacks, which is a sack every 1.44 games or Aaron Schobel with 78 in 133 games (one every 1.7 games) BTW, the “force” Leonard Little managed 87 sacks in 147 games, or one every 1.68 games.
So while all these guys had different skill sets, and game strengths, and team strengths and every other variable you can imagine… when compared to each other, you can hope for a DE or OLB to get a sack every game and a half at worst, and almost every game at best, over the length of their entire career. He was consistently just barely better than average, or really, just average entirely. at least IMO.
to verify any stats, i used this link for NFL Sack Leaders who are currently still active.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
good numbers
interesting stats. Though I would say in response that Schobel only had one season playing with an offense which actually forced teams to pass the ball against us. Ware has played with explosive offenses, Allen has played with Favre, Peterson, and teams that put up points, even Leonard Little racked up sacks playing with Warner, Holt, Bruce, and Faulk in their prime on the other side of the ball.
Except for Bledsoe, Moulds, Price and Henry in I think 2004, when has Schobel ever had a competent offense? I think he got his 78 in incredibly disadvantageous circumstances, dont you agree?
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m not saying the guy didn’t grind on Sundays. and like i said, over the length of their careers, the should be some sort of leveling out, because there are simply too many uncontrollable circumstances… meaning, that you have to let some things fall by the wayside to some degree, and look simply at production. Is it there? yeah, i suppose to an NFL degree, he was not the worst guy we ever could have had. But to me, to use a second round pick, and to have a 9 year career, and have such radically different rankings and lack of continuity, and circumstance and then you say that you need to look at the offense… seems like we are reaching here, to find something nice to say. But suppose this….
If you want to look at it from that perspective, that our offense’s weakness presented “disadventageous circumstances” i do not necessarily agree, no. One could say he had far more opportunity, as he had more time on the field, and also more need to produce because of the strain the overall lack of offense put onto the defense. so in a way, that only strenghtens the point he was something of an unachiever, as he may have had 3x the number of snaps as any of those other DEs i meantioned, for all we know. Moral is, he was never AMAZING, and as far as ABOVE average…. Maybe. But not necessarily, and if so… only just barely.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
your assessment is certainly a fair one
but I just have to disagree. From where I can see it, the Buffalo Bills during Schobel’s career were one of the most pathetic franchises in any sport in North America. We have a horrific playoff drought, changed defensive schemes every 3 years, never had a QB, never had an o-line, etc etc. I know it may sound like I’m reaching, and maybe I am, but from what I’ve seen from Schobel, and his production for this franchise, I get the feeling the man was held back by this franchise. I’m also sure there are a lot of poor players on those teams that would have been average elsewhere.
He had great numbers and production with this team to place himself near the top 50 sack totals in NFL history and No. 2 for our long standing franchise. I take it as a testament to what this guy brought to the table on Sundays for the Bills and the fans and as you said, no one can argue he didnt grind it out on Sunday almost every Sunday of his career – the dude didnt miss a game for a heck of a long time and then bounced back from a serious foot injury. I also believe what adds to Schobels deserving of being on the wall is what he meant to the fanbase, the guy was year after year a bright spot on a team that needed dozens of them and never got them.
I do however, after discussing this with you, completely see where you are coming from. So kudos to you because before I couldn’t comprehend why anyone would vote “no” – now I do.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
I do however, after discussing this with you, completely see where you are coming from. So kudos to you because before I couldn’t comprehend why anyone would vote "no" – now I do.
Classy of you, and I am going to admit to you, that in seeking out related stats, I found Schobel amongst a list of some great NFL pass rushers. So in a way, you have succeeded likewise. However, my closing argument is your own statement…
From where I can see it, the Buffalo Bills during Schobel’s career were one of the most pathetic franchises in any sport in North America.
I really couldn’t have said it better myself, and it really doesn’t help the argument for his contribution. ; ) (i certainly DID read further, and i understand your argument to some degree, as i said, but i mean come on how am i gonna pass this kind of material up?)
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
LOL
MITCH?!?!?
Haha
Chan Gailey's #1 Fan!
by norcaliangelsfan on Aug 5, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You want him on that wall
I voted yes because his career numbers are pretty solid and his two pro bowls put him up there with Darryl Talley and Jim Ritcher, who are both on the wall.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Aug 5, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
wow, my vote just put it 50/50, we are truly split.
" A wise man once told me, never argue with a fool, becuase from a far, you can't tell who is who" - Jay-Z
by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Aug 5, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
The most telling number of all
Playoff appearances – ZERO. The Bills didn’t win anything with him, so when they don’t win without him, nothing has changed. He really didn’t have that much of an impact.
"Maybe winning isn’t everything for 2010"
good player on a bad team
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
doesn’t seem reasonable to pin non-playoffs on one DE.
Given the love between the Bills and the Pats, it seems like that stat of sacking Brady more than any other player would alone be enough to land him in the Bills HOF :)
defense wins championships
and pass rush is what helps them do this. what i noticed the most was that you didn’t notice when he wasn’t on the field.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
I agree...he was a very good player...
But the guys on the wall were players that got the Bills to play games beyond the regular season. Just winning a few games a year is what all NFL players do (Other than Detroit Lions players). The wall is for the players that got the Bills over the hump. Players that completely took over games like Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, and That ilk.
"Maybe winning isn’t everything for 2010"
I wasn't aware that those were the criteria for being put up on the wall
OJ never won a playoff game with the Bills, right?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
I dont agree at all
Joe P is right. According to your logic guys like Jim Ritcher were placed on the wall by Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas. So if Aaron Schobel played during the Super Bowl years he would be on the wall? Thats not a very good system at all. The Wall of Fame, similarly to the NFL Hall of Fame, is the place where individual accomplishments are recognized. They exist precisely to do the opposite of what your system suggests and that is recognize players for what they brought to the game. Super Bowls and won-loss records are to recognize the successes of a team.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy made 1 Pro Bowl
Even his peers didn’t think him worthy of that honor for 8 of his 9 years playing.
"Maybe winning isn’t everything for 2010"
he made 2 Pro Bowls. So did Ritcher and hes on the wall.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
JTM
You mentioned a very prominent player—Jim Kelly. Schobel never got to play on a Bills team that had a dominant QB or an average QB except for the 1 year Bledsoe was above average…
Without a outstanding QB in the NFL chances for success are limited.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
exactly
is it such a shocker that about a 1/3 of the wall are people or coaches who were associated with Jim Kelly?
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
As Aristotle Quoted....
“The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.”
Schobel never played on a team that had many good parts…
.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
huh?
I’m not sure how you deduced that from my comment. Individual success is individual success. It helps to have a great QB, never said it minimized their accomplishments. But you seem to be implying that having not played with a great QB and thus a great team has made Schobel less worthy. His stats and accomplishments are as impressive as a lot of the guys on the wall, their accomplishments are equal irrespective of team success when it comes to honoring them.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Poz
I don’t know if you are replying to me but I’m in Schobel’s corner. Just because the teams he played were not very good does not diminish his contributions.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
no I know that Goose
Im replying to JTM.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Thought we were on the same page...
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
definitely
and I like how you brought Aristotle into the debate haha
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Aristotle sell clothes?
; )
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like a heck of a party ;-)
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
is it such a shocker that about a 1/3 of the wall are people or coaches who were associated with Jim Kelly?
actually yes, if only because that shows how inept this team has been for so long.
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Aug 5, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction on Bledsoe: Great for 8. Prone for 8.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Archie Manning?
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he deserves to be on the Wall of Fame. I think he might make it on, though. I don’t think he is one of the 20 greatest players in team history.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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2nd in all time sacks on a bad team.....how do you explain that?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
How do I explain what?
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
Tweet
Buffalo Rumblings
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
How he is 2nd in sacks but not good enough to be in the top 20?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
Would you say Phil Hansen was one of the 20 best players in team history? He was second in team history in sacks until three years ago.
I put Bill Polian, Lou Saban, Cookie Gilchrist, Eric Moulds in first. Steve Christie and Pete Metzelaars might even make it before Schobel in my book.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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Buffalo Rumblings
by MattRichWarren on Aug 6, 2010 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I would keep that book next to the toilet ;-)
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
You probably keep everything next to the toilet
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
if only that were possible......I would be living the dream
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
Even the guy that started the poll doesn't believe he belongs up there.
This should count for something!!!!!
"Maybe winning isn’t everything for 2010"
I actually wrote the poll differently. I had three options. 1) He deserves it 2) He doesn’t deserve it but will make it and 3) He won’t be on the wall.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Look, I think Schobel was a very good player on a lot of bad teams. But that’s about it. And my view has nothing to do with recent events. I just think he was above average, not great. And I think only the great players deserve to be on the wall. He was above average at pass rushing, and very average at run defense.
Someone else above made a comparison to him and Bruce Smith and Phil Hansen. Bruce was not only a fantastic rusher, what a lot of people forget is how good he was in run support. So that’s not even close. But I’d say he is on pretty even par with Hansen. He is a little better of a rusher, but not quite as good in run support as Hansen was. Again, still VERY good, just not what I’d consider great IMO.
No
Double no when he signs with another team because he forced his way off this one.
by Buffalo Mo on Aug 5, 2010 12:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
To elaborate, the wall is rearced for those players that not only performed well, but those players that lead the team and inspired others. Aaron kept to himself, was quiet, and didn’t practice likr a leader. Thus, IMO, he doesn’t go up on that wall. This little stunt during the offseason just shows that Aaron was always about just Aaron!
by Buffalo Mo on Aug 5, 2010 12:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This little stunt during the offseason just shows that Aaron was always about just Aaron!
How? It might show that Aaron is “now” all about Aaron but certainly proves nothing of his mindset in earlier years.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t blame him. He played on the Bills in the 2000’s.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Aug 5, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, poor Aaron. He got paid elite money on a team that could never get to the point of determining he wasn’t.
You do know that he has the 2nd most sacks of any DE in the NFL today, right? Sacks aren’t eveything, but it’s not everyone who can lay claim to that slot. He’s only trailing Jason Taylor.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sure if thats exactly true Afghan
Leonard Little has more and so does Jevon Kearse – at least I think he still plays. And Little is thinking about retirement too. So in a sense your right.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm. Why am I not recognizing Leonard Little as a DE?
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Little has been a stud for the Rams for over a decade
I think he played on those Greatest Show on Turf teams that went to 2 Super Bowls and I think he killed two people driving drunk and got away with it. Does that help?
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I should have said, “further proves” instead.
How many times was Aaron elected by his teamates as a captain in his 9 year career?
by Buffalo Mo on Aug 5, 2010 1:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You are missing the point; leadership, on field performance, and dedication to the organization – that’s what makes you eligible for the wall IMO. He has 1 of 3.
by Buffalo Mo on Aug 5, 2010 1:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How do you know he doesn’t exude leadership? Not all leaders are vocal, and not all leaders are outwardly visible.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
yea, “further proves” works better.
I dont think leadership is a prerequisite for being on the wall.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted "No"
And it has nothing to do with what’s happened over the last couple of days.
If anyone from this generation of Bills is deserving of this, it would be him. Unfortunately, he got screwed by the Bills complete failure to put quality players around him on the front 7. They tried a few times, and never found a player worth continued investment. Thus, Schobel was never “dominant,” and he and his crew continuously underperformed and cost the Bills games, especially close 4th quarter games.
Reserve those spots for dominant and successful players. If you think that’s unfair, you’re right, and welcome to Buffalo.
Hath keeled over, thy KoolAid hath spillethith on thy floor...
If anyone from this generation of Bills is deserving of this, it would be him.
Brian Moorman deserves it too.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I said no for this one. To me, being on the Wall of Fame means you are a truly special player. Someone who all the fans love and rally behind as well as consistently produces great numbers on the field. Aaron was a good player on a bad team, absolutely. But the fact that he was here a long time and put up a couple good years doesn’t put him on the wall.
a couple good years
Good grief! Really? I think you’re short-changing him a tad.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh. I dunno. I never considered him to be great. Ill meet you in the middle though. He had a couple of really good years on the team.
Other than those couple of years though, he is nothing to get really excited about. Solid players are lovely, and I am grateful for his time here. I just don’t think he’s wall of fame material.
Comon guys, the Nos should NOT win this.
Yes him leaving the team like he’s doing stings, but he has been a great player for us for 9 years. Not only that, he’s easily the decade’s best none special teams players (aka Brian Moorman). This guy belongs up there eventually.
Don’t be haters because he doesn’t want to be part of yet another rebuild. This guy belongs on the wall-of-fame.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
With all due respect CBF, the argument about Schobel being a great player perplexes me. I just don’t see how a player that had an opportunity to amass sack totals with an organization that struggled to find players better than him, makes him great.
He’s got one of the best sack totals in the NFL over the decade. Look I’m not calling him a HOFer, far from it, but he has still been a great player for us. And for me, that’s enough.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
But that’s all it was. In a word he had a boring career and I struggle to recall 3 moments of anything resembling greatness.
You don’t need to show up on the highlight reel to be a great player. You just need to be great at what you do, and Schobel has been exactly that.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I guess that’s where we disagree bud. I think you have to show up on the highlight reel at least some. And then if you can be consistant on top of that you can be great. Like Peppers, he shows up on the highlight reel, but isn’t consistant so he’s not great in my opinion. Conversely Schobel was consistent with very few impact moments, also making it difficult to label him great.
Alright then maybe we can agree that Schobel has been an extremely consistent top end player at his position of the last decade.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
So suppose Julius Peppers played here from 2001-2009. He makes those teams playoff teams? How would changing Schobel out for any other better DE make the Bills better as a team?
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t remember consistently feeling like Schobel changed what the offense was trying to do that day.
I bet Jared Allen could have helped the Bills get into the playoffs
during those years, we were sometimes 1-2 wins away from getting in…a more consistent pass rush would’ve definitely helped
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
True
Don’t forget the Williams up front that made it possible for Jared to get said sacks.
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
by buffalobacker on Aug 5, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He was really good in KC too...
my reasoning was that when he was on a KC team devoid of talent, I believe there were times in which he actually made plays that turned the game around to KCs favor…sack/forced fumbles were his bread & butter…
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Haters
He sat out and pouted so he could get released on HIS terms. As far as we know right now he is laughing his way all the way to the bank to pick up his check.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that the new regime saw little in why they needed him. It just so happened that it played out to be a respectful departure by default
Maybin is gonna get a trial by fire this year. He really needs to perform well. Schobel departing is just another hurdle out of his way. Lets hope he is up to it.
"Maybe winning isn’t everything for 2010"
he’s easily the decade’s best none special teams players
Is that enough? Do we need a player from each era? How can you say to a better player that played in a different era “Nah he was worse than you but because nobody else good was on the team he’s not in”?
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
See I think that his play is enough to earn him a spot, the fact that he was the decade’s best player is just a bonus.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
"An organization that struggled to find players better than him, makes him great.'
I always thought the Bills were trying to find players to complement Schobel such as Denny and Kelsay.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
NO
Ask me in a couple years and I might feel different..
I have a hard time voting yes to a player who didn’t want to honor his contract. If he didn’t want to play, fine – retire.
If he did want to play, and didn’t want to play for buffalo work out a pay cut to go home.
DON’T – strongarm the Bills into releasing you by sitting out and pouting.
IF details come out over the next few days that he made concessions (i.e. give back money) to get released from the Bills I will feel differently. As it stands right now, I see nothing “classy” about how this transaction went down.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
See this argument always drives me nuts.
I have a hard time voting yes to a player who didn’t want to honor his contract.
A player if forced to honour his contract under every single situation, but a team is not? Gimme a break! How many times do you see teams cutting players because their salaries are too high? r because they are getting older and slowing down a bit? Or simply because there’s a new coach or GM.
Teams in the NFL are in no way held to honouring contracts, yet players have to? It’s a bunch of BS.
Fact is that Schobel asked to be released because he no longer felt comfortable here and was contemplating retirement. he wanted to not have any pressure from the team in making his decision about where, or even if, he wanted to continue his career. In doing so he also LOST out on a $8M+ contract year and will most likely take a $6M dollar pay cut no matter where else he goes. So please, don’t act like Schobel is winning out on this, he’s not.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
well said
I also dont know why this has to be viewed as a conflict. The team and Schobel both seemed to have come to an understanding that it was time to part ways, it seems like fans are making this some kind of Schobel vs the Bills incident. The Bills decided to switch to a 3-4 when their best defender was only fit for a 4-3. No one did anything that wrong here. It was time to part ways.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
WHAT?!?!?
This is not rationale… BTW – He didn’t lose $8M a year, I don’t know how you came to that conclusion, he takes a good percentage of that in guaranteed money since he was RELEASED.
If he wanted to quit (retire) he could, no hard feelings… Asking to be released is a joke… let’s call it like it is. Asking to be released is really asking to walk out the door with a bunch of cash to not work.
NFL teams have to honor their contract! They can release players based on the contract parameters. That is THE CONTRACT! They also have to pay the guaranteed money!
Schoebel was the one not honoring his contract, plain and simple.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually the only guaranteed money on his contract for this year was 2.5M according to (ESPN), so yeah he’s actually lost out on about 5.5m. I also doubt that he’ll fetch anything over 2M this year, so yes he’s losing out.
As for teams honouring contracts, teams find ways to circumvent guaranteed money all the time. The Bills didn’t because as an organization they generally keep their word.
Now I’m not happy about what Schobel did, but it’s not like he pulled a Jason Peters either.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
As for teams honouring contracts, teams find ways to circumvent guaranteed money all the time.
Provide one example? Maybe Mike Vick, and I don’t think they won that case.
Actually the only guaranteed money on his contract for this year was 2.5M according to (ESPN), so yeah he’s actually lost out on about 5.5m.
I wish I could get $2.5M not to work! And if he signs with the Texans he will obviously get that money.
And to say he “lost out” isn’t really fair, since he didn’t want to work.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish I could get $2.5M not to work!
Whether or not NFL players deserve the amount of money they get (which I dont believe they do) is not relevant to this debate.
You said Schobel wouldn’t lose out on a majority of the 8 mil, CBF pointed out that he would.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Read my comment
I said “good percentage” to me 30% is a good percentage, especially considering he has to do NOTHING to earn it.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I was about to repost
when I realized you said good percentage. Is 30% really that good? Again, I dont think players deserve this kind of money but its not like hes walking away robbing us of our contract, hes losing a ton of money.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Poz,
He isn’t losing the money, he wanted out, so it is hard for me to say he is losing it. To “lose” something it has to be without choice. He could have “kept” the money if he would just show up to work.
To me he is GAINING 30% ($2.5M). If he “retired” he gets nothing. He strongarmed the Bills and Nix caved. I am upset with both now. Again, I just hope they mutually worked out something, like Schoebel gave back half of his guaranteed money or something, that would make the pill easier to swallow.
Let’s not forget, it wasn’t like he had one year left on his contract, he had FOUR years left!
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
right but
he is still “walking away” from money on the table. This would suggest that Schobel has bigger factors for leaving other than money – like being closer to his family. And so it seems that he and the Bills parted amicably within the parameters of the contract. No side breached it. NFL teams can indeed release players based on the parameters of a contract but Aaron Schobel can demand to be released and get his guaranteed money based on the parameters of the contract. The contract said the Bills only had to pay Schobel what was guaranteed and would be spared the rest of what they owed if they cut him. The Bills chose to cut him – Schobel didnt do anything outside of his contract.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
OK but...
No one forced him to sign a 7-year contract!
He could have told the Bills you keep my guaranteed money, I just want to play close to home. Then they could have done something there.
He could have worked out a trade with the Texans to take a pay cut and then the Bills wouldn’t have to pay him his guaranteed money.
The contract does not have wording “If you want to be released you can demand it”.
If he sat out the Bills wouldn’t have to pay him… Only if he decided to play.
Schoebel did violate his contract by not showing up to work. Of course that might have been in the contract, so technically he didn’t.
If the Bills (Nix) see this as a good for both sides, I fail to do so… Schoebel walks away with $2.5M (probably more for the following guaranteed money on his contract), and the Bills get NOTHING.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Provide one example? Maybe Mike Vick, and I don’t think they won that case.
The Packers are not giving Atari Bigby his guaranteed money this year because he has failed the team physical right after re-injuring his ankle this training camp. Because he is going to fail the team physical before the regular season starts and will not participate in the season (he’s going on IR) they do not have to pay him his guaranteed money this year.
While they are not releasing him, it’s a good example of a team not paying a player his guaranteed money.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If he is on IR he is getting paid, right?
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong, he was on IR last year as well and the team is not forced to pay him any of THIS year’s guaranteed money until he passes a physical during the regular season. He has not done that yet, and since he has already landed on IR, will not do so either. The Packers are not forced to pay him anything this year.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You could argue that guaranteed money was for the time he put in while playing under the contract. Not the entire life of the contract.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You could, but you would be wrong.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you feel about OJ being on the wall then? Nevermind the stuff after football, in the 90’s. But how didn’t want to honor his contract so he could go to the west coast?
He’s on the wall.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a hard time voting yes to a player who didn’t want to honor his contract. If he didn’t want to play, fine – retire.
I think you’re looking at this the wrong way – you should be looking at this from what he’s done ON THE FIELD. Look at OJ…
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Aug 5, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Too funny we both went the OJ route.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t ready yours – I got punchy so my bad.
but his logic is based off of off the field circumstances – when I voted, I voted for the player on the field. I did vote yes just because he has been one of the better players statistically for the Bills in a long time (even if I feel he wasn’t all that great).
I think this also goes to show how little talent this team has had over the years – oh well.
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Aug 5, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. At the end of the line, we’re all arguing that one of the best players for this team in the last decade doesn’t deserve this recognition simply because those teams have stunk.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Pete Rose rule – I take everything into affect… Again ask me in a couple years… but one day after the “release” I am a little angry.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
See here’s where I get why you and I will always disagree on this subject. I think that Rose belongs in the HOF, along with McGuire, Sosa, Clements and Bonds. Although I can make a much better argument for everyone but Pete Rose.
But comparing Schobel to Pete Rose is just wrong, what they did are to TOTALLY different things.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool...
I think that Rose belongs in the HOF, along with McGuire, Sosa, Clements and Bonds. Although I can make a much better argument for everyone but Pete Rose.
-Pete Rose-Barry Bonds-Mark McGuire all make it in the HOF for me.
Sammy Sosa was not consistent enough for a long enough period of time, IMO. If the pitchers and other players that possibly took steriods during the steriod eras are considered, there is no reason to prevent the others from joining based on their accomplishments.
Pete Rose is a little different in mind since his had nothing to do with performance enhancers, I dont see why he wasn’t inducted long ago. Betting on baseball is as old a tradition and playing the game itself. Sports betting is the reason baseball was so dominant as an entertainment source for so long. Holding betting against Pete Rose is wrong IMO because the sport itself (and all the HOF voters) would be not be where they are today without the like of people like Pete Rose who propped up the sport by gambling on it.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If those guys get into the HOF… Cheaters win… sends a bad message.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
See that's the thing THEY WEREN'T CHEATING!!!!
Steroid were NOT illegal at the time. They broke absolutely no rules. NONE. And in fact if it wasn’t for McGuire’s and Sosa’s home run chases and record setting seasons and Clement’s Cy Young award seasons with the Blue Jays baseball would have never recovered from the strike in ’94. The commissioner deliberately turned a blind eye to what they were taking because at the time it was good for the sport. It revived the league, made it popular in the media and got attention.
Was it morally deplorable? Yes, that’s why steroids are illegal now. But steroids didn’t make them great, it simply allowed them to be great fr longer. No amount of steroids that you pump into your arms will help you connect with the ball better, you still have to know how to connect with the ball. And at the time they were breaking absolutely no rules. Their records should stand and they are all HOFers in my book.
And to add to the entire steroid thing, many greats from the ‘70s and ’80s have admitted to using steroids as well, yet nobody is going after them. Terry Bradshaw has flat out admitted to using steroids in his Super Bowl winning years with the Steelers, yet you don’t hear people bitching and whining about him do you? It’s a double standard and it needs to stop.
I’m not arguing for steroids, I just think that as long as they were not illegal for their sports, and that the leagues looked away from it because they knew it benefited the sport than those same leagues have no right to hold it against those players now that they are illegal.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It may not have been cheating but it was illegal.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 6, 2010 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
How was it illegal?
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Steroids are in no way illegal. In fact they are prescribed all the time.
Look I’m not trying to defend these guys use of steroids, i just don’t think that they should be punished for something that their leagues viewed as favorable at the time. Why should these guys be punished for their leagues’ hypocrisies?
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
1990
Yes, in fact they are illegal. In 1990 they became illegal. You need a script to be legally in possesion of said drugs. I Personally feel they’re performance enhancing, hence it gives a player a advantage that players not taking them don’t get. Any records obtained by players using steroids should be excluded or at least a asterick denoting they did it while using a performance enhancing substance. Every player is striving to compete ,but drug use is going to far in my opinion.
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
by buffalobacker on Aug 6, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Every player is striving to compete ,but drug use is going to far in my opinion.
Entirely agree with that part. But the fact is that Bud Selig was practicably encouraging them to do it. If anyone should be punished, they should start with Selig. If they do that then I’ll have no problem with them going after the other players as well.
And while steroids were illegal without prescriptions I’m almost entirely certain that most of these guys actually had them prescribed. A prescription for steroids is surprisingly easy to get if you have connections with the right doctors.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
True
And any “doctor” that wrote those scrips were and are nothing more than street level drug dealers! Totally agree that MLB looked the other way. It was a chapter in sports history that I hated to see. But we live in a perform or get out society so I can’t blame players for looking for a edge. Just say no to drugs! :) My problem is with the players and their records that fell to players using drugs. I feel sorry for the guys that did it naturally.
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
by buffalobacker on Aug 6, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Entirely agree with everything you just said. It’s just hard for me to hold it against the players that did use drugs because the leagues not only looked the other way, but practicably encouraged them to keep going.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
but practicably encouraged them to keep going.
not surprising: better stats, more exciting plays = more people watching = $$$
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Aug 6, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. And lets be honest, if it wasn’t for them baseball propbably wouldn’t have totally recovered from the strike. Thats why I think it’s not right to hold it against them. Sure go ahead an put an asterisk beside their name if you really want too, but they belong in Cooperstown.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
there's no crying in baseball
idk. seemed like it fit. well, about as much as baseball does on a football board. ; )
my only comment is that i think people would appreciate baseball a lot more if it was still played with class and dignity, and sportmanship. I think beyond steroids, there are little things that seem like they are motivated for greed or gain, and not for the ‘sport of the game’ per say.
The money really has distorted both of these leagues, and that is the american way in some ways i guess. (of course, the rest of the world is the same way about soccer. ) I guess ultimately, they need to entertain, and we make them take it to that level. sad really. then again i wouldn’t pay money (well ok, not big money) to watch all us regular guys to be out there running around, falling down, stretching for fly balls with our beer bellies hanging out, or running, well, for any reason…. so i suppose that’s what makes it earn the big money in the end.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
They are legal if they are prescribed. Did McGwire and Sosa had a script for them? I doubt it.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 7, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s how it started out. But the designer ones, yeah you don’t get prescription for those.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 7, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Entirely agreed on Rose. And while I think that a sanction on him joining the HOF for a while was a good idea, the time has passed, he’s come out admitted it, shown remorse. The guy was one of the best plyers of all time, he belongs in the HOF.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Voted No
IMO Phil Hanson was a much better player and he deserves to be on the wall of fame more then Schobel. Schobel did nothing for me, he was a good player on terrible teams. I’ll never use the word “great” to describe Schobel. He was a terrible interview, never showcased any leadership on the field that I saw,, and to be honest I can’t think of one game changing play he made that won the Bills a game.
/Just my opinion.
"It took twenty five years to get there, and they did it in championship style" - Van Miller 1/20/91.
Hanson was very good...
But he also had the opportunity to play with Bruce, Biscuit, Conlan, Talley, Ted Washington & other defensive standouts and of course on the great offensive teams during early 90’s.
For Schobel the offensive teams were for the most part -offensive and he certainly didn’t have other defensive stars around him but yet he is the 2nd leading sack leader in team history.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what the difference is between a winner and a loser?
Shane Falco: The score.
I would never use the term great to describe Hansen either. I’d be much more willing to use it with Schobel.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Moorman
I voted no, the only player of this era that truly deserves it is Moorman. Schobel was solid but not wall of fame worthy.
i been thinking this over and over
as we discuss whether the relative suck of the Bills over the last decade “catapults” Schobel relative “appearance” of being above average. Fact is, barely any of our team in the last ten years should even be mentioned in the same breath as the WOF, except Brian Moorman. That guy has earned it ALREADY. And i hope for him to be on our team until his leg literally falls off.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
Moorman still is not the leading punter in Bills history over Chris Mohr is punt yardage. He will be by the end of this year. He’s not on the WOF yet but he certainly has the fan support for it.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 6, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Total punt yardage?
what about net yards? punts inside the 20? TD passes? ; )
He has earned it. He will be my prime candidate for the WOF in the first moment of his retirement. I won’t be alone, but I am certainly happy to lead the way. He embodies what football players should be, to me, and that said i am quick to dog the kickers. Not because they aren’t talented, but in a way, they don’t NEED to be football players. They could be futbol players for that matter. So i respect Brian Moorman for being a FOOTBALL player, in every meaning of the word.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
He will for sure be a Wilson Distinguished Service Award guy.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Aug 7, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
voted no
Jason and Michael_Necci from different angles kinda summed up how I feel.
As far as the previous poster who mentioned Jim Ritcher, I didn’t realize a center who lead some of the most prolific offenses in NFL history and to a Super Bowl wasn’t deserving of such an honor.
Pro Bowls are a dumb statistic relevance to cite anyway …
oops
Pro Bowls are a dumb statistic relevance to cite anyway …
Should have said Pro Bowls are a dumb statistic to cite relevance anyway … my bad …
well sabre
if Pro Bowls are a dumb statistic you shouldnt be telling me that, the person I was debating with used it as a metric to say that Schobel wasn’t deserving of the wall because he didnt go to enough. And please dont accuse me of saying that Ritcher doenst deserve to be on the wall. I NEVER WROTE THAT nor do I think it. In fact, Im using him to say that Schobel should be on the wall which should imply that I very much do believe Ritcher should be on the wall. Come on.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Usually a Pro Bowl helps to illustrate that a player is elite at his position, for that season. Teams with little Pro Bowl representation usually are pathetic during the season. I think Pro Bowls matter—at least the voting, but they’re approached differently by the players now.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Pro Bowls matter
Of course unless you are trying to convince Rumblers that Jason Peters is a great LT!
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahah nicely done.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree with this concept...
ProBowls have become meaningless…at least IMO when it is regarding a players ability…they are too many players to list that I would rather have on my team who have never been to the ProBowl versus guys who have several ProBowls under their belt.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You won’t find me as someone who is glad Peters is gone. Yeah, I was upset with him, but i’ll never argue the talent was there for the molding.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I really liked Peters talent too...
but he was unmotivated, selfish, and unreliable…not acceptable for the amount of money he earned coupled with his responsbility of keeping a franchise QB (if you know, we actually had one) safe.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
probably good Peters is gone
we replaced him with Wood and a Wang anyway… and we had a Johnson… though we did fire Dick. All we need is like… a Cox, or Ball, or Weiner….
and we will be an EVEN BIGGER target and EVEN MORE of a joke in the league. Geez. ; )
haaa! i just forgot… we even got a “Hang” lol Priceless.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
I want someone named along the lines of...
-Beaver
-Taint
-Gooch
-Hymen
you know, round out the roster a bit…with a few more comical names. Right now, we a team full of Dicks.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, ok your getting a rec for that one.
Well done.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i can agree the voting mattering...
wait…. no i can’t. It is a popularity contest that the vets all know to be a potential injury liability, and beneath them. they aren’t desperate for that 30 grand or whatever… it’s something fun to do, to grab a vacation, and if you haven’t been there, and if you are a Buffalo Bill, you are only getting in on pity, or as an alternate. Lame, but true.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
Wow...Kind of surprised here...50/50 voting
I voted YES even though Schobel thoroughly pissed me off on his way out the door, he is still second in team history in sacks and deserves a place on the Wall. I am not a fan of Schobel’s, I am fan of the Bills, and with the way he left the franchise, it will always tarnish his reputation, at least with me. Regardless of thosw feelings, he was a great pass-rusher and was a productive player for the Bills, so IMO he gets a spot.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Second that.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Voted NO!
Schobel is selfish. The team needs him now and he decided he wants to play elsewhere for someone else for his own personal reasons. He has never to me appeared to be a leader or a team player. If he didn’t get that massive contract two years ago he wouldn’t have stayed a Bill. He is not to old to keep playing. And he doesn’t appear to be on the decline. So any Thurman Thomas to Miami parallels don’t match. I think the criteria on the Ring is Pro Football Hall of fame, major record broke, and if you don’t have those fundamental in a teams success. Schobel is none of those.
The team needs him now
I’m not so sure that’s the case. It was asking alot for a player as tenured in the 4-3 to play OLB in a 3-4.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t work out too well for Aaron Kampman last year did it? And once he had the chance he bolted to a 4-3 team.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. I think those two are comparable players, actually. Ironic they’re both Aarons.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Does that mean we are adding the name "Aaron" to our list of bannable draftees...
1-No more Texas linemen
2-No more CA QBs (I disagree, but its still funny)
3-No more Aarons
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you forgot one:
No more suck-ass first-round draft picks. (Please note people: this is humor.)
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha! Add Aaron to the list. And now that I think about it Quarterbacks with long hair.
Trent Beeber!
haha
Trent Beeber’s new song…
Eenie meenie miney mo
Lee has a step, make the throw
If he holla (if, if, if he holla) let it go
I’m indecisive
I can’t decide
I keeps on lookin
From left to right
Fred, c’mon get closer
To the ground
Strong safety’s a com’n
I’m Capt. Checkdown
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
well done......will not be surprised to see that on utube
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
Impact plays
Can anyone think of a Schobel play that changed the game? I can only think of one—Buffalo was playing a team (I think Green Bay) and the team ran the ball to the right and the RB threw the ball back across the field to the QB (Favre?) in the corner of the end zone. Schobel let the QB get behind him (not exactly a ringing endorsement for his coverage abilities) and got close enough to the QB when the ball arrived to get the QB to drop the ball. If I remember right, the team had to settle for a FG attempt and I think Buffalo won the game.
I can’t think of any other game changing Schobel plays off the top of my head. I’m sure there were more…
It can always get worse. Let me tell you how.
how about last year against the Patriots in New England with the game tied and he picked off arguably one of the greatest QBs of all time and ran it back 30 yards to pay dirt. That play would have won the game had McKelvin not fumbled.
Theres one right there from last season alone.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
by poz on Aug 5, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Good example. I was trying to remember sacks that changed games but his pick 6 should have changed the Pats game.
It can always get worse. Let me tell you how.
It did change the game, then McKelvin helped change it again.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhhhh…..if McKelvin hadn’t fumbled Jauron would have run 3 times and then punted the ball back to the Pats. They would have been set up around midfield with about 60 seconds. The Bills would have given up several underneath throws and the Pats would have been pretty much where McKelvin laid the ball on the turf with 3 or 4 shots at the end zone.
It can always get worse. Let me tell you how.
May we never forget: J.P. Losman to the Jets for the loss.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
who is this Losman person you speak of?
We got the tools, We got the talent
by J2 on Aug 5, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Never heard of him
if i had though, i bet it would have been in a joke. Something about the UFL, or to the effect of “hail mary every throw”…. but since i have no idea who that is, I will assume it was just some sort of typo.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
Starting QB for the Seahawks.....Hahahahahhhhahahhaha!!!!
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watch him piss us all off and prove once and for all that it was Jauron and Co the problem and not him. I see it coming, I swear.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't worry to much
If he succeeds there, good for him. But, JP and his little girl hands were never going to be able to hold onto the ball in Buffalo in January.
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
He couldn't hold onto the ball in New Jersey either...
so location is not the problem…its cold in Seattle too : )
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
don't they play in a dome?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
Nope, open field. One of the nicest stadiums in the NFL too IMO.
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
At least Jauron was trying to win that game instead of just not lose it. He had set up a roll out pass/QB run to get the first down that would have sealed the win. I still say the call was solid, particularly since the Jets were stacking the box.
The execution, on the other hand, was abysmal. Jason Peters let a DB blow right past him and the rest is inglorious history.
It can always get worse. Let me tell you how.
Yeah. Pretty much one of the worst plays i’ve ever seen out of Jason Peters.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You didn't watch him last year then..
the early part of the season was very Bell-like…
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That was strange, there was more in the body that didn’t get shown…
the post went on to say that Peters was very Bell-like in the beginning of the season.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
50/50 Vote is good enough reason to so NO
You couldn’t say 50/50 of any of the guys on there already.
How about an option
Ask me after the dust has settled from the “release”
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 5, 2010 2:36 PM EDT reply actions
It think it would be very interesting to have this same poll next offseason...
just to see what the difference is the benefit of knowing Schobel’s ultimate destination and his play this year (as well as our own pass rush).
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No
I think the wall of famers inspire fond memories of the player’s personality and performance. Schobel was a private player and did not interact with fans, except to often express annoyance with haters. The 9-7 team had the amazing linebacking core and the running game; Schobel wasn’t a difference maker.
I don’t think that he was a difference maker that defined the team like Daryl Talley. He wasn’t a leader, unlike Ritcher and Talley. I just don’t think he embodies Bills football like Talley.
Regarding his departure, I am glad that the Bills could extend this gesture, and I think he was honest throughout the process. He left 2 million on the table this Spring, and he left another 6 million on the table for the season. Good luck to him and his family, but I don’t think he’s a wall of famer.
This is something I think people overlook when talking about how good he was...
Schobel was a private player and did not interact with fans
He was a good individual player, he was never a great team player or leader and I think this has a lot to do with people’s reservations about his “Wall” status…we always wanted and sometimes needed him to be that, but he wasn’t. Its one of the intangibles that we as fans recognize but dont really attribute to anything.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
how do you know he wasn’t a leader? Just because he wasn’t vocal doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been a leader. Based on what I witnessed every Sunday the last nine years the dude led by example every game, every play.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
He said he did not see himself as a leader...
it was years ago so I wont even bother trying to get a link to support, but I know that he has stated that if players look up to him, great, but that was all about coming in and doing his job. A leader cannot just come in and do a job, that may be an alright definition for a “role-model”, but not a leader. A leader has to be vocal, has to get people lined up correctly, he has to get the players to listen to the coaches and buy into their system.
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
To me,
Schobel was the Tracy McGrady or Gilbert Arenas of pass rushers. He’s one of the best in the league, but no team is going to compete for a championship when Tracy McGrady or Gilbert Arenas is their best player, just as no team is going to compete for a championship with Schobel as their best pass-rusher. He would’ve been great as the guy across from Freeney, or Kearse, or Peppers, but he couldn’t be one of them. Is that enough to be on the Wall-Of-Fame? A guy whose talents perfectly exemplify the “great clubhouse guys just don’t have enough talent” era we’ve watched for the past decade? Gosh I hope not. For me, Schobel, Kelsay and Denney’s consistant, re-signable mediocrity is what I’m going to think of 20 years from now as why this team never made the playoffs.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
No...
Sometimes, a bad team can make an above average player look great.
So...
Let’s lighten the mood up in here for a minute.
We have the Wall of Fame to enjoy at the Ralph. What if they created the Wall of Shame, on the back wall of the men’s urinals? A real life classless Calvin situation, if you will.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
Is it all-time bad players or players that inspire shame in Bills fans?
For instance, Chris Kelsay is a better football player than Jamon Meredith, but Kelsay’s existence infuriates and shames me.
CJ Spiller: CJ stands for Chris Johnson.
by JPH on Aug 5, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Ronnie Harmon would probably garner many a vote.
Think players like Hobert, Rob Johnson, etc. They could actually craft the names out of urinal cakes!
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
My first nominations:
Mike Williams
Jason Peters
Willis McGahee
Dear God,
If we give you the Jonas Brothers, can you please give us back Jimi Hendrix?
Amen
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we put stuff like...
- Wade Phillips (for going with Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie in the wildcard game) or
- Mike Mularkey (for calling Annexation-of-Puerto-Rico-Double-Reverse-Draws inside the red zone) or
- Dick Jauron (for making the longest-ever-poker-face in the history of poker-face-making)?
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
lmfao
for reals. that stuff is funny. seriously. longest ever poker face in the history of poker face making. that is priceless…. and Mularkey lives up to his name for sure… double reverse draw statue of liberty with a fumble-ruskie, into a hook and lateral … for a loss of 2 yards.
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now."
~Bruce Coslet
I think we should also include coaches and front office types...
…just to be inclusive like the wall. Why should the players be the only ones memorialized for their contributions? Donahoe, the brain trust of the last regime, and other coaches as well.
Without Question. It shouldn’t be “used” just for players. Erik Flowers would make the cut for me. Mike Williams HAS to be an early selection.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Kings of Leon - Manhattan
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 5, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d happily pee on McCargo’s picture. He even failed at being traded.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
haha
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm in the minority...
He gets my vote for the Wall of Fame. I don’t see how anyone can say he doesn’t. He has the stats, the longevity and more importantly (these days) the loyalty.
Good Luck, Schobel.
Alternative Scenario
or, How Schobel Should Have Handled This
If he’s genuinely confused about what to do, I’ll give him a pass. Can’t be angry about someone who can’t make up their mind about such a big personal decision.
However, if he knew he wanted to play, or even that it was a serious and distinct possibility – this is how I think he should have handled it if he wanted to do right by the Bills -
As soon as Nix was installed, go talk to him honestly about what was on his mind. Tell them he was a little weary about playing another season in light of domestic situations but that he might be interested in playing closer to home. DON’T TELL THE WORLD THAT YOU’RE THINKING ABOUT HANGING IT UP. That would have given the team a bigger window to work deals, and arguably, a better product to move. By telling the world he was done, or probably done, and then saying, well maybe I’ll come back, but only if I get to play near home… He kind of blew up his own value and screwed the team.
He has stumbled through this and he has the unfortunate circumstance of having this play out with Favre-Watch going on in the background. That automatically raises questions about his intentions and draws unfavorable comparisons with every player who has pouted their way out of a contract.
Classy to cut him when he blows his own value? Classy would have been saying he was retired and retiring, or at least giving the team a chance to get some value out of his contract.
If he retires, I’ll be indifferent. If he signs with another team, my annoyance will depend on the team – Texans would be mildly annoying, like an itch. The Pats would make some veins in my temple bulge.
by oompaloompa on Aug 5, 2010 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Exactly how I feel, I put the blame on Schobel for doing it all publicly…
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 5, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
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