Bills Players Vote To Decertify Union
by MattRichWarren on Sep 22, 2010 7:55 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintThe players on the Buffalo Bills roster became the latest NFL team to vote to decertify the Player's Union this evening. NFLPA Executive Director DeMaurice Smith was in town and attended the vote, which Bills union rep George Wilson said was unanimous.
Smith joined the Howard Simon Show this morning on local sports radio station WGR 550 to explain the union's stance. The entire interview can be heard here.
In his conversation with media following the vote, Wilson also said that he is "100% convinced" there will be a lockout in 2011.
Decertification would strip the union of its collective bargaining rights on behalf of the players. Because antitrust laws exempt NFL owners from being sued by unions, decertification would eliminate the union and allow players to sue the NFL if there is a lockout.
The last time the NFLPA decertified was in 1989, when they were seeking free agency. The union returned following the ratification of a new collective bargaining agreement in 1993.
Other teams to vote for decertification are the Indianapolis Colts, Philadelphia Eagles, New Orleans Saints, Dallas Cowboys, and Washington Redskins.
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The decertification process is good for fans because it essentially ensures that football of some form will be played in 2011. On a basic level, decertification equals no lockout.
it essentially ensures that football of some form will be played in 2011.
Would that mean football with no free agency? No salary cap or floor? No Franchise or Transistion tags? No tenders?
Just Individual contracts?
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 22, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Decertification means nothing in regards to changing the landscape of football as we know it currently. The only thing it means is that the owners cannot lock the players out as they would no longer be a union. Everything else will have to be bargained for collectively. If no CBA is reached, the players will still show up to work as scheduled because the owners can’t stop them now.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
At which point if the Owners choose to either stop play or try to stop the players from playing then the players would be allowed to sue the owners.
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
correct?
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically, yes. Decertification is a good thing for anyone who wants to see NFL football in 2011.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The go decertification!
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Decertification means nothing in regards to changing the landscape of football as we know it currently. The only thing it means is that the owners cannot lock the players out as they would no longer be a union. Everything else will have to be bargained for collectively. If no CBA is reached, the players will still show up to work as scheduled because the owners can’t stop them now.
But if there is decertification and no CBA, don’t the owner’s get to make the rules?
Could we see a scab season like the last strike?
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 23, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
To add.
Come play if you want to play for your contract, go strike, if you want to be replaced while owners retain rights to your contract.
A deal should be struck ASAP.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 23, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
If your talking about the "scab" player possibly taking over then yeah it would guarantee some football.
But then what would happen to the UFL??? How can we possibly live without it?
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
But then what would happen to the UFL?
If i am not mistaken,
the max salary in the UFL is 200K a season, which is below the NFL minimum, so going to the UFL is no bargaining chip.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 23, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
it essentially ensures that football of some form will be played in 2011
FALCO! FALCO! FALCO! FALCO!
itll be a tough road back after that embarrassing sugar bowl loss, but he could be our qb of the future
by quantumuprising on Sep 23, 2010 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions
So?
Whats this mean to the season next year, not happening? No football? Well maybe Bill’s players are striking now…
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
I think there is too much money
For there to be no season in 2011. A deal will be struck at the last minute, both sides are too proud to negotiate until they have to. The league is too popular and booming for a solution not to be found.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
That’s the reasonable and logical thing that should happen. Whether everyone can put aside their ego to make it happen is another question.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree. Look what happened to the NHL after their strike. Obviously the NFL is way more popular, successful and better managed, but regardless of that fact, a year w/out football, or a year with less talented scabs would definitely be a step backward. The well oiled marketing machine that the NFL is would lose its momentum without a 2011, and the owners would not only lose their primary revenue source, but be stuck with paying for stadium upkeep and all contracted non-players employees.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
the owners have the money to weather short term increases in expendatures if it makes them money over the long haul
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
Agreed, but you can’t always quanitify popularity and market maturity. A locked-out year could cause the nfl to lose a significant amount of popularity. There’s no telling what the financial ramifications of that would be when play eventually resumes.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
Just ask
There’s no telling what the financial ramifications of that would be when play eventually resumes.
MLB,
The last strike in baseball moved football to the most popular sport.
Who watches baseball or gets paid in MLB?
Only big market teams.
Don’t let the Jerry Jones’s and Dan Snyder’s screw this up like the Yankees, Dodgers, Angels and Red Sox screwed up MLB for the rest of the league.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 22, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t let the Jerry Jones’s and Dan Snyder’s screw this up like the Yankees, Dodgers, Angels and Red Sox screwed up MLB for the rest of the league.
With an assist from the Mets and the Braves.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 22, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I was speaking more to quantifiable losses than generalities, but you’re right that the strike permanently knocked baseball off the top. However, the potential problem of large market teams oppressing the smaller teams has little to do with the strike and the players. The only way the NFL ends up like the MLB in the manner you described is if the revenue sharing ceases and the salary cap is permanently removed.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
I think the reason the owners want a lockout.
Is with the downturn in the economy, they need to lower ticket prices, but can’t because of current salaries.
Jets are having a hard time selling PSL’s despite getting to the AFC championship game.
I also think we are looking at the most Blackouts in a number of years, this year. Which further hurts the league.
A rookie pay scale really needs to be institued, it hurts the competiveness of the league when you miss on a top 5.
Veterans should embrace a rookie pay scale, that money Jamarcus Bustell got could have gone to veterans, and to Jamarcus once he proved himself.
Yes the game has growed, but the economy is gonna get alot worse before it gets better.
I really hope the two sides can arrive at a CBA that works for both sides.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 22, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The players aren’t against a rookie pay scale. They just want the money that was allocated to the rookies to go to current players.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Sep 23, 2010 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It means the owners cannot lock the players out next year. Additionally, it’s another bargaining chip for the union to play. As for football being played next year—it actually almost guarantees we’ll see football next year unless something completely wild happens.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank-you
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
by buffalobacker on Sep 22, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
Won’t this dispute result in a more favorable buyers market for owners? Kinda why Buffalo’s not going out and signing big $$$ players this year?
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
Welp.....its the owners turn to move now.....
to react to this move by the players.
June Jones is my daddy.
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 22, 2010 8:17 PM EDT reply actions
Don't poke the bear
The owners have waaaayy too much money, and they are getting pissed. They won’t take this laying down. The owners, the NFL, and their 5,000 lawyers will eventually get the upper hand and the players will bow.
Just hope us, the fans, don’t get screwed even more.
I lived in AL the first time I got the NFL ticket, I think it cost $180.
Now it costs………. AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The owners and the NFL will win. Because the players have no discipline and live paycheck to paycheck.
"Adversity is an opportunity for heroism." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Sep 22, 2010 8:25 PM EDT reply actions
Don't ever think it's never going to happen
It’s unlikely, because pro football is SO popular right now, but business is business and BOTH sides – just like baseball – can be really be stubborn and greedy. The result: we, the fans, wind up the losers.
Well it looks like I'm going to have to go back to watching hockey.
As a Canadian, is it bad that I feel slightly disappointed by that?
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
not at all
as I’ve learned from you over the years, you Canadians have a very rich football tradition. I realized it first hand when I made it up to Vancouver. This guy at the bar couldn’t stop going on and on about the CFL.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
In the 50's and 60's
Lots of players preferred the CFL to the NFL or the fledgling AFL. Very rich history.
interesting
I didnt know that, good fact.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
Racial biases, although still existing, were MUCH lesser in the CFL than in the NFL up until about the mid 60’s. So A LOT of black players preferred coming north of the border.
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds about right. I mean technically it is the world’s oldest pro sports league. But I’ve got to admit even if we do have a rich heritage in football up here, we have nothing on you. Football in the US is like the Habs in Montreal: it’s a freakin’ religion!
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to ask this
How is the CFL the oldest pro sports league?
Even the NFL is older than it! :-)
The past is fixed, the future is unknown, try dealing with the present!
"You are drunk, sir!" "And you are ugly, madame! But I will be sober in the morning!"
why?
Bills football is the greatest thing ever.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
ah yes
gotcha. Yea, Bills football in its current form is a drag.
"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly"
14-2
i would rather watch a 56-10 drubbing than watch hockey.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5
by silverstreak3k on Sep 22, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
lol yeah we all have out guilty pleasures, mine are the Bills, the Habs and a few other things I can’t mention here ;-)
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard work good, and hard work fine, but first take care of head.
"Ability without character will lose. The Bills are going to be a team of high character. That stamp I will push very hard. I hope we can convey that to our fans and project something very special to the rest of the nation." - Marv Levy
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Sep 22, 2010 10:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well played sir. And coincidentally my favorite sublime song!
Starcraft II: the ultimate sleep depraver.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 22, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, the way this team is playing, and next season looking just as bleek: I ENCOURAGE a lockout.
Follow Me here: http://twitter.com/Michael_Necci
No you don't !
Bad football by your team is better than no football at all !
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just dandy !
Dumb question alert!!!!
OK…..so if there is no union, what is to stop the owners from releasing all of the players. Then, offering them contracts at half what they were making?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
They could do that but the players wouldn’t re-sign in theory.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
Tweet
Buffalo Rumblings
by MattRichWarren on Sep 22, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
would make for one hell of an interesting 2011 draft and FA period :-)
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
someone will
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5
by silverstreak3k on Sep 22, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
MRW is right. This could happen in theory, but you know the owners wouldn’t stick to it. There’s always a Jerry Jones/George Steinbrenner who is willing to go above and beyond the other owners financially, and in this case, that would basically re-ignite a league-wide free agency and in fact drive up player costs. The owners wouldn’t all be able to restrain themselves.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
all things being equal, I would agree
But greed and the ability to make money over the long term is a powerful incentive. If all the owners agreed not to resign any player for no more than 50% of his last contract for a period of lets say 2 years, it would really put the players in a bad spot. If the players refused to sign, the draft would set the new price scale for rookies at whatever the owners wanted to pay them and the NFL would roll on. Yes, the quality of the product would suffer for a few years, but all teams would be on equal terms. Owners could probably afford to cut ticket prices and get the fans on there side. I know I wouldn’t quit watching watching.
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
collusion?
would that be considered collusion? but if there is no union to fight it, who’s to stop the owners from doing it. its a shame that the fat pig of the nfl is gonna let it get this far.
It wouldn’t be collusion if there’s no union.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think certain owners would see the prospect of acquiring Peyton Manning as a free agent as a more powerful incentive than money-making ability.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
true.....do owners have any way of punishing other owners who might violate that agreement?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
No they don’t. It would be a free for all with every owner as good as his word. The lure of high-profile free agents like Manning, Brady, and Brees in such a scenario would be quite strong. Can you imagine the pressure on the Colts to buck the system and lock up Manning or risk losing him to a team like the Cowboys or Redskins?
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you guys are representing doomsday scenarios. The commissioner is hired by the owners to protect exactly those kinds of things from happening. That’s why he has the power to void deals, etc.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Sep 22, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just responding to the question. This scenario would never play out for the reasons you stated.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 23, 2010 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions
But that’s so short term. The Mara family, despite playing in the largest market at time time, knew that revenue sharing was what was best for the NFL. Keeping every team competitive was important. I think the NFL has to do that in order to make sure that the Yankees don’t happen in football.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Sep 23, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
couldn’t agree more – it’s imparitive because it helps “ensure” parity. Too bad the Jones’ of hte world aren’t that way
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 23, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
bad feeling
i gotta feeling this is gonna be a nasty labor dispute. better sign up for netflix b/c i don’t like the looks of 2011 football
i don’t like the looks of 2011 football
there is still college football.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5
by silverstreak3k on Sep 22, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
My take...
I don’t give a flying #$%@ about either side on this issue… If this one lasts long, I will surely turn my attention to college, even more than now… The only thing, keeping me an NFL fan, is my Bills…
I don’t care that a player “only” makes half a mill a year, or an owner only makes whatever… I’m tired of the primadonnas, period…
Went to my first "BB" meeting today... When I stood, introduced myself, and admitted I was a Billsaholic, the other members threw beer cans at me!!
what would you say if the owners cut the players contracts by 50% and then cut ticket prices by 25% ?
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
That would be great.
But what they really want is to cut contracts by 50%, and then RAISE ticket prices by 25%.
"Adversity is an opportunity for heroism." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Sep 22, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
and then RAISE ticket prices by 25%.
I think the bulk of the owners, want to lower ticket prices by 25%
the holdouts are
Dan Snyder
Jerry Jones
Paul Allen
The Mara’s
and the
Jets under Woody Johnson.
The rest of the teams want no part of a lockout.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Sep 23, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Works for me
Just kick those teams out and start afresh – we would have better chance with less teams kicking around :)
That said, on a serious note, I would not miss the Cowboys or Jets for starters.
3 AM Monday morning games all 2010 - that's just dandy !
Cinga, I’m with you, although I wouldn’t even bother turning to college at that point.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Sep 22, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be with you if I didn’t think the NCAA was the biggest bunch of greedy hypocrites in sports.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Sep 23, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
The draft will still take place this coming April 2011 regardless of anything. After that, all bets are off at this point, although odds are strongly in favor of something being worked out by the 2012 draft.
by Jeff Winters on Sep 22, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
worth a read
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d815da1d2/article/key-questions-and-answers-about-the-cba
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
Thanks
for answering the question Jeff and Joe p., but I have a follow up that wasn’t addressed in the link provided by Joe P. Since you’ve stated there will be a draft held regardless, how do these players get signed? I assume they don’t. So then the teams hold on to the rights to the players drafted?
by Buffalonian on Sep 22, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I assume they would negotiate contracts same as any other year.....then be locked out just like the vets.
If all the stars align, pigs learn to fly, humanity achieves world peace, doctors discover a cure for cancer, scientists perfect cold fusion, and hell freezes over, the Bills might win the SB this year.
I’m not 100% familiar with the CBA situation, but I’m interested to see how different owners respond after the decertification voting ends. The players all have the same general motivations, pressures and concerns. The owners on the other hand will have some variation in their interests at this stage. I’m especially curious to see how Green Bay responds. As a public, non-profit company GB will have to answer to its shareholders (Green-Bay community) above all else, and a year without football, direct revenue, and home-game business for local proprietors, is not going to be acceptable to them.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
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