Are we really that far off?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 9:54 AM EDT
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It's getting redundant hearing how the Bills are only going to win a handful of games this year. I certainly think they are going to be much more competitive than what the "experts" think.
When I look at the roster I see a lot of positives with some glaring weaknesses but it's not like this team is devoid of all talent - there are some really good pieces in place. I don't think this team is anywhere in the same talent department as the Lions were or the 'Phins were when they had epically awful seasons.
Here's a look at the positions that I think are solid:
Offense
RB, LG, RG, WR#1, WR#3
Defense
LDE, NT, RDE, ILB, ILB, SS, FS, CB, CB
That's 14 players that I would consider solid out of 22 positions. I think the ILBs are going to be good because of the 3 in front of them. I think McGee can still match up against 1's but will need help against Marshall, Moss etc.. but those guys always require double teams.
Here's some positions that I feel we don't know what we have - but there is some talent there:
LT, TE, QB
I feel the OLB position on the defense is probably our biggest weakness on the team right now so I can't include Maybin until he shows something. He's improved throughout the preseason as i've watched him - but that's only preseason. The OLB position is a mess.
As far as LT - Bell was coming along nicely until injuries derailed his growth - he's got some talent folks. Let's not write off that position just yet.
Nelson being suspended the first 4 games of the season effects this position terribly for longer than that. He cannot have any access to team facilities during that suspension so he will be way behind the 8 ball. We have talent there with Nelson - but unfortunately week 8 will probably be when he's finally getting comfortable in the offense.
As far as Trent - barring injury - he has the tools to succeed. Kaiser always points out that he has stretches of good/great play then looks awful. That is certainly true but I have to wonder how much an influence the terrible offensive coaches had on him. First - last year he had 4 offensive coordinators in 3 years - that's stupid. Second - Whitner said that teams knew what we were going to do. It's not out of the realm of possibility that better coaches shut down our offense because they knew what we were going to do so stopping it was easier. Whitner said that and we as fans know that from watching the games - so wouldn't defensive coaches have an advantage as well?
I hate the guy - but Ray Lewis says he doesn't play against offenses - he plays against offensive coordinators - that should be something we take into consideration when thinking about our last offensive coordinators and Edwards having 4 of them in 3 years - which I don't even know if that's happened before.
Trent needs to stay injury free- that much is a certainty.
When I look at the roster I see these positions as must upgrades right now:
OLB, OLB, C, RT, WR#2. Even if you aren't sold on Edwards you can throw QB in there - let's throw LT in there just in case you're not sold on Bell.
That's 7 positions that need upgrading - next year we should get at least 2 starters in the draft and possibly 1 or 2 in free agency. That brings the team down, in my eyes, to about 4 players in which I don't feel an adequate starter is in place. How many teams have needs at 4 or 5 positions? Most of them - the difference is we haven't had the coaching to bring it together. We can all say it together "our coaches have been awful" - and we all know it's true.
How devoid of talent is this team if that's the case? I certainly feel confident in the guys I placed in the solid group - I think Davis and Poz will work well together.
Injuries and awful coaching has been such a big factor for this team the last few years - I see the talent that is in place - I know if you're reading this you see it too. It exists - we're not the Lions terrible, the Bucs terrible or the Dolphins terrible during their epic fail seasons.
This team will compete week in and week out. The weaknesses we have are at the more critical positions - but the foundation is in place for us to find out what we have in the younger guys and upgrade next year the passing attack and the pass rush. Sure this year might not be all glory - but I fail to see that we're so far off that we're only going to win 2 - 4 games. I don't see this team being that bad - we have good players.
There is a foundation in place - but when I see people saying that this isn't a rebuild - that's because we're not as far off as you might think. Clearly the most important positions need to get figured out, QB and pass rush - but the rest of the team isn't lacking in talent.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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We are as far off as anyone
Not having the franchise QB, LT and pass rusher puts us at the bottom of the league in terms of readiness to compete for a title.
Some of those positions you said we are solid at are also major question marks. DE, NT, ILB, WR come to mind, especially the defensive positions. We don’t know how those guys will respond to the switch to the 3-4.
And when we finally do get those most important positions addressed we’re going to have holes elsewhere….ILB, CB, DE, maybe C.
Sure this team will compete and play hard, and even win a fair share of games, but in terms of being close to competing for a title, the Bills are as far off as any team in the NFL. I just don’t see it being a possibility until QB, LT and pass rusher are not only solidified, but a major strength of the roster.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
QB, LT and pass rusher are not only solidified, but a major strength of the roster
and I feel that to be the case for every team. We are sorely lacking in those departments – but the rest of the roster isn’t awful in terms of talent. We have a lot to work with.
When I hear of people talking of the Bills I hear them say that we are a team with no talent and I certainly don’t fel that’s the case. They say the line is a mess but the interior seems to be strong.
I don’t feel a full rebuild is needed – we definately need better QB, LT and pass rush play – but that doesn’t mean the rest of the roster is pitiful. That’s the impression I get when I hear about people talk about the Bills and I don’t feel that’s the case at all.
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
No team has "no talent"
The Bills’ overall talent is very weak just like it is for some of the other teams that have stunk for years.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
See that’s where I disagree – I think the overall talent is right around what other teams have. The biggest issues we have had are the main components – Qb, protect, QB and pass rush. Obviously any team without those isn’t going to be as good and certainly isn’t going to compete for a championship.
the point I was trying to make was a piece here or there and all of a sudden our team is much more competitive – it’s not all lost I guess is what I’m thinking – if that makes sense
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
True
I’m riding the hope that Chan utilizes the talents of players so they can play to their not yet realized potenial. I to think we have talent, it was just misused drastically, to the point of embarrassment. Here’s one fan hoping Chan can!!!
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
by buffalobacker on Sep 8, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree'd
The talking heads say there’s no talent on this roster, but the only big name we lost from last year was Schobel. Sure, He’s a big piece, but he wasn’t the sole talent on the roster. A lot of teams have ‘talent’ and go just as far as the Bills have the last few years. It’s more important to have a team that plays well together and this team looks capable of that.
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
by fansince83 on Sep 8, 2010 10:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How Many Teams Have an Elite QB, LT, and Pass Rusher
HMMMMMM,
The Colts – Dwight Freeney, Peyton and Ugoh or I forget his name but hes solid
The Saints – Drew Brees, Will SMith (who is far from elite but is good) and They had Brown and let him go and no have a guy that backed him up last year
The Patriots – Dont have anyone close to an elite pass rusher
The Packers – Rodgers, Matthews and Bulaga (who seriously has to prove himself before even being considered good)
Too have all three of these positions solidified is a task that very very few teams have, having Elite players is something the Bills might be void of but they have good players and good depth Elite may not be a word used for describing the Bills Roster but good is.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Sep 8, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
actually i’d argue that LT for the Colts is a major concern for them – but great point paully – how many teams have those 3 positions solidified? not many because those are the most difficult and most important
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a good number of teams are solid in those areas
Baltimore
Cincy
Pittsburgh (if they can get decent LT play)
Houston
SD (with a slightly better rush)
NYG
Dallas
GB
Washington
Minnesota
Atlanta
NO
Teams that are pretty close include the Pats, Jets, Dolphins, Titans, Eagles and perhaps SF with better QB play.
The bad teams are the ones who aren’t close…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hardly Elite
Baltimore – Flacco is above average with chance of being Elite this year
Pitt – More ? marks then the Bills this year
Houston – If they get Elite LT play they will be the team to beat
SD – They dont even have there Elite LT signed and their pass rush is abysmal
NYG – Elite at nothing in those catagories at leats not last year
Dallas – Let go of their Elite LT and are handing itr over to a lifetime backup
GB – If Bulaga plays the way he is supposed to they are the answer
Washington – Same goes for them as with GB if the rook works out there are elite at all 3
Minnesota – Has The 3 Elite down
Atlanta – Ryan is hardly ELite
New Orleans – I already discussed this
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Sep 8, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, they don't have to be elite
All those teams are at least good or very good in those areas. The Bills aren’t even average in any of the big 3 spots.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 12:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well they don't have to be elite
They can be competent and productive, too.
The Bills are so weak at the three main positions in the NFL. Like it or not, that’s going to hinder the team success and individual players on the team.
Also, being “solidified” hardly means having elite players at the position. The Giants won the SB with solid, very good players in those areas. Were they elite? Maybe the pass rush was, but Manning and the LT (Diehl) weren’t….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 10:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I cannot argue the top 3 main positions – my point was the remaining roster – as I thought I made it clear that QB, LT and pass rush are serious concerns.
We’re not cover your eyes awful across the board – yes the most important points are either unknown (bell), injured or unknown (edwards) or awful (pass rush).
the rest of the roster has solid pieces – it’s not out of the realm of possibility that we add a few solid pieces next year and look much, much better goign forward.
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I look at this roster differently
Those are the hardest positions to fill and can overcome weaknesses in other areas (ie top QB can help a poor group of WR’s, good pass rush helps the secondary, etc). Its not often that those main positions benefit as much from other areas, IMO.
The biggest issue I have is that when we finally do address these biggest needs, the areas that we are solid in probably won’t be as solid anymore. DB is certainly one area that comes to mind. This is mostly why I believe it doesn’t fully matter what we have at other positions because until the most important areas are solidified and strengthened, we probably aren’t going to win a whole lot. Unless we were stacked elsewhere with all-pros, we can’t win consistently with the QB, pass rush and OL. Even then it wouldn’t be easy. To me, I don’t really care if some clowns are saying we have the worst talent or not because without the right talent, it doesn’t matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Its not often that those main positions benefit as much from other areas, IMO.
The biggest issue I have is that when we finally do address these biggest needs, the areas that we are solid in probably won’t be as solid anymore
isn’t that kind of contradictory?
back to your point – yes they are the toughest positions to fill – but once you fill them and you have other pieces in place your team will be stronger.
would you be much happier if we took Clausen?
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Those aren't contradictory
You guys are the ones saying we’re so solid in the other areas for not only this year. I’m saying that when we address our biggest problems, those other positions might be weaker than they are now.
Just because I don’t think those three main areas benefit as much from so-called less important positions doesn’t mean we don’t need to be at least adequate there.
What does Clausen have to do with this??!!? We need more than just the QB!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 3:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Clausen was a figurehead – I should have said would you have been happier taking Clausen, DAvis, Baluga, JPP etc….
I thought you were being contradictory
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Manning played Elite that Year
Eli Manning was the story of 2008, outplayed Tom Brady (arguably the greatest season a QB has ever had ) in the super bowl and his defense was automatic when it came to getting to the QB, 1 outta every 3 downs they knocked Brady down in the superbowl.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Sep 8, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well isn't that kind of proving my point?
Getting great QB play and a top pass rush will take any team far…the Bills aren’t close to that right now…
Eli was actually pretty average that year until the end, if I remember correctly.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Teant Edwards by all accounts could play Elite this year
You and I dont know the answer until the games are played, What if, some how some way Aaron Maybin records 20 Sacks we dont know nor will we know until the season is over.
We look at previous stats because in all reality thats all we can go on right and if you look at Mannings numbers that year
3300 yds, 23 TDS, 20 INTS, Sacked 27 Times, 73.9 Passer Rating
Hardly Elite Season:
Playofss: 840 yds, 6TD, 1INT, Average above 90 Passer Rating
So in one post season he went from being below average to Elite this just shows QB’s can change with the snap of a finger
Look at Kurt Warner actaully watched a special on him last night went from so good you couldnt stop him with the Rams, to absolutley terrible with the Giants to unstoppable with the Cardinals Elite can be a season to season basis but we wont know until the season is played out
For all we know The Bills could make the playoffs this year or they could do just the opposite and loose all 16
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Sep 8, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just being realistic here
If Edwards becomes an elite QB this year, I’ll eat my boxers. If Maybin has 20 sacks, I’ll eat them again.
There’s nothing to suggest that either guy will all of a sudden become some elite player.
To keep it simple, sure the Bills can make a run at the playoffs this year, but to have a consistent chance at the playoffs and beyond every year they need those positions upgraded and solidified. We can hope all we want, but until the Bills reach that point of consistency and quality play in those areas, they’re not a contender.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2010 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
And that being said, we just have to hope and pray that Bell turns into the physical specimen that his estranged father was and we will have ourselves a solid LT.
Trent needs to be competent and confident this year and good things will happen
As for the pass rush, it all depends on the schemes Georgy has drawn up for these guys, If James Harrison can win DPOY because he plays for Blitzberg anything can happen. I truly believe that
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Sep 8, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
To Add
Those four teams also have good coaches!
Home of "Spiller the Thriller"
by buffalobacker on Sep 8, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
How Bad Is the OL?
We all think Wood is a stud. Hang is compitent, and Levitre is pretty good. Collectively, they have some games together under their belt. Bell is a question mark, but he’s at least average and also has half a season under his belt playing with Levitre. Green/Meredith are below average. McIntyre is above average. There’s enough there that you can not possibly be as bad as the past. Throw in coaching and Spiller and you can compete. Elite? No. Able to compete? Yes!
J2 I gotta couple questions
1.) Ray Lewis – How do you not like this guy, arguably one of the greatest player to ever polay the position.
2.) Solidified WR3 – Roscoe is hardly solidified as he has alot of ? surronding him (can he stay healthy, can he catch the ball consistently) Im just as optimistic about him as you are but he is hardly solidified.
3.) Stating out NT is a strong part of this team is a bold statement to say the least
4.) As much as I hate Hang, our Centre has looked incredible this pre season and it looks as if his back is ready to rock and he looks to be a great centre this year
5.) Do you really think our pass rush is going to be the void in this teams season, because I dont we have capable if not strong pass rushers they just need the oppurtunity, you cant be a solid pass rushing team without elite DT’s in a 4-3 tampa 2 coverage scheme. Your allowing the offense to dump off instead of taking a sack when you play Tampa 2 thats the strength of the defense allow the dump off and limit the gan, take away first down passes and long runs and hope you keep them under 10 yds on 3 downs, this teams pass rush will be a heck of alot better this year but we will be suceptable to the big play now.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
Ray Lewis – How do you not like this guy, arguably one of the greatest player to ever polay the position.
because he murdered someone
Solidified WR3
between Roscoe and S.Johnson – and probably Nelson – I like the 3rd WR spot
Stating out NT is a strong part of this team is a bold statement to say the least
I said solid :). but I know what you’re saying – we do’nt have Vince Wilfork – but Kyle Williams is one heck of a football player and I like what I see in Troup. When I look at that position agianst, say, the tackle situation or the OLB situation – the NT is in much better shape – I think.
Do you really think our pass rush is going to be the void in this teams season
Its very tough for me to be optimistic – Maybin for all accounts has looked like he’s progressed in every game – but the pass rush won’t be there every game unfortunately. we’re going to need very exotic blitzes in order to get consistent pressure – I guess when I think of pass rush I think about how much pressure can we get out the base set as opposed to blitzing and Maybin is a complete unknown, Kelsay isn’t a pass rusher and is playing out of position – so it’s hard for me to be optimistic about that group – unfortunately
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Sep 8, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHA
because he murdered someone
Classic and the only way anypone could hate that guy
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
That was so long ago, I can’t even recall what happened. I thought he withheld information, not that he was being targeted as the main suspect. It was right around the time of Ray Caruth, if I remember. B-more has had their share of legal drama with players named Lewis.
"Give back some of that money you ain't [expletive] earned!" - Eric Wood
Song recommendation of the week: Cracker - "Euro-Trash Girl"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Sep 9, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
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