Would you trade Fitzpatrick for two first round picks?
by Xaviermw on Oct 20, 2011 3:28 PM EDT
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PrintWith the Oakland Raiders trading a first and a conditional first round pick for Carson Palmer (a move that I personally thought was way overpaying) I have begun to think about just how much a quarterback can be worth. Being a Bills fan this obviously focuses around Ryan Fitzpatrick.
It is very unlikely that the Bills would be at 4-2 without Fitzpatrick on the team. Fitzpatrick will obviously be a very pivotal figure in the playoff push for the Bills this year, as we carry a possibly of breaking out of the 11 year playoff-less streak. It is still debatable, however, if Fitzpatrick is going to be the elite quarterback to have a consistent, super-bowl contending team. There is always lots of young talent in the draft, and you can certainly get some quality talent with two first round draft picks, helping to further build up this Bills team. Unfortunately it would be very unlikely the Bills would still have a chance to contend for the playoffs this year.
So Bills fans, would you trade Ryan Fitzpatrick for two Raider's First Round Draft picks?
This question incorporates Short-term vs. Long-term and your views on Fitzpatrick. Feel free to go at it in the comments section.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Personally
I voted no.
It would be REALLY nice to get back to the playoffs, and I feel that two hit or miss draft picks aren’t enough to sacrifice this season (and possibly next season). It appears that we have a system that works, and I just wouldn’t want to chance it by trading away a critical part of the system.
Exactly
First round picks aren’t guaranteed, especially first round QBs (which we’d have to spend one of them on, unless we go with Smith or Thigpen….and what’s the hit/miss percentage on first rounder QBs, like 50%?)
Plus, take away Fitz, take away a big chunk of the team’s heart and soul.
Fitzpatrick should have just walked around the stadium yelling "Are you not entertained!!!" ~ Dana H
by maestro110584 on Oct 21, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
if they were say from a top 5 drafting team then yea i would otherwise no
2011 author-mod pick'em -poz
I'll knock the bieber out of brady - arthur moats @dabody52
2011 -adopted offensive player roscoe parrish(IR) david nelson
2011-adopted defensive player arthur moats
In the offseason, I would absolutely trade Ryan Fitzpatrick for two first-round picks. Then I would use then to get Andrew Luck. :-)
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
no way we lose the Bengals or Giants game without him either…
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
The Bengals game was fixed
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
Seriously? That’s a load…our offense works at all because of Fitz. Without Fitz, we might still be in QB limbo like we have been for the last ten years, and would not have beat the Pats or the Raiders.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I think the Bills have a chance at the playoffs. No.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 21, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Won't work
Miami or Indy will have that first pick and two first rounders won’t be enough…
In Ralph we trust
I am going to seriously LMAFO at every single person that wanted their team to tank to get Luck if he ends up stinking.
I’m a poker player. I play the odds. Odds are Luck is going to be good. He could be terrible, just like that guy could have a better hand than me. But what does the percentage say? I’d say he’s probably going to be good.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 21, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
All day and all night.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 21, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
And when Andrew Luck turns out to be another Matt Leinart/JP Losman
it’ll be another 11 years of no playoffs. NO THANK YOU.
.
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
Trade Fitz?
In the offseason absolutely, during the season only if we were not in contention for the playoffs, or if we had a capable replacement, which we don’t. But with 2 first round picks plus our own 1st we could go after who ever we hold in high regard, yes even Andrew Luck could be had for 2 1st round picks.
Honestly Luck
looks to be more in the 3-4 1st. round draft picks range to be had.
If Palmer’s going for this much, then clearly your going to have to put together a VERY sexy package of picks (and/or players) to trade up to win the Luck-bowl.
But two firsts definitely would make that ability for us ALOT more likely.
Just would you sacrifice this season for it? Thats the question.
Unless the Rams/Panthers are at the top of the draft. Do you think they’d draft Luck having both just sunk #1 overall-s for their QBs?
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 20, 2011 7:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True.
But it’s not like there’s a ton of teams with multiple first rounders in the same draft.
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 20, 2011 9:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Luck???
Yes right now Luck would be my guy, but 2 number ones! That would be my best offer, only if they pressed me for it, after that I start looking at other QBs in the first round I imagine Coach Gailey can do some wonderful things with a first round talented QB, especially one that doesn’t have to start right away. sit a year or 2 behind Fitz! That would be just fine with me. Luck yes but he’s not the only QB who’s going to have success in the leauge, it’s never just 1 guy! He’s the 1 guy that most of us know of but after the senior bowl we ( The Bills Staff ) knew first hand about Dalton, and Ponder. So who’s going to be the other guy or guys that’s what our staff seems to be good at, identifing the other guy!
Im disappointed this poll is 50/50
This team was going nowhere until Fitzy stepped in for an inept Trent Edwards and gave this team attitude. Not the Rex Ryan kind. Not the talk a lot of trash, make some unfulfilled guarantees and insult and disrespect your peers kind but the good kind, the MAN kind. Step in, do your job, inspire and rally your men, and put your friggin head down into a linebacker or courageously take a shot straight to the chest for the sake of releasing a ball to move the chains.
Fitzpatrick was the one, the reason, Stevie Johnson’s potential was unleashed on the league so we can thank him for that too.
Fitzpatrick embodies the “misfit” mentality that has finally given what was one of the most excruciatingly bland franchises in the 2000s a personality, an identity. He was the one who finally gave us an offense, a torch which has now been passed to Fred Jackson but which Fitz has still demonstrated he is capable of dominating if need be.
Im disappointed mostly because we’ve endured so many years of dreaming of scenarios in which we could amass draft picks with the hope that in some distant future our beloved Bills would again give us the sweet joy of victory that we should finally be cherishing the idea that this time is now. We don’t need to win in the future with the draft picks. We can win now, in the next few years, with Ryan Fitzpatrick leading the way.
The Raiders GAVE UP two first rounders for the opportunity to WIN NOW because they had to. Why give that opportunity, that we already have, for the promise of something that may or may not come down the line? First rounders are not a sure thing – Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch, Leodis McKelvin, JP Losman, and Mike Williams all have taught us this. Andrew Luck is no sure thing I can tell you that much.
Give me victory with Fitzpatrick, he’s made us Billieve again and thats worth more than the hope of some draft picks. We lose Fitz, we lose our identity. I believe that.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Oct 20, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
i like Fitz poz
but the chance to have a true franchise qb can’t be wasted. Fitz don’t have the phisycal skills (arm) to be a elite qb in NFL.
by Fernando brazil on Oct 20, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Disappointed, poz? I think Fitz is great, but there isn’t a player on this team that I wouldn’t trade for two first-round draft picks.
Two? Are you serious? There isn’t a single Bills’ player that is worth two first-round draft picks. If another team offers me that for anyone on this team, I’m pulling the trigger.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Oct 20, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not buying that two first rounders is worth it
We give up Fitzpatrick and then what? The odds of us finding a first round QB better than him are really not that high. Since 2000 look at the first round QBs taken. I’d take Fitzpatrick over most of them and thats just on what he brings to the team as our QB, not taking into considerations all the immeasurables that it would cost us in terms of team morale, psychology, leadership, momentum, and chemistry
From 2000-2007 (anything after that is too soon to tell) QBs taken in the first round that are no more franchise QBs than Ryan Fitzpatrick:
Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn
Guys who might be an upgrade:
Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers
Thats 17 out of 21 first round QBs over 7 years that would even remotely be worth trading Ryan Fitzpatrick for and hoping to find a gem in the draft. We toss around the “franchise” QB label but the fact is that term applies to hall of famers. There is a reason why guys like Peyton Manning, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino are remembered and honored by their fanbases for generations upon generations. You just dont find those guys every year, or every other year, or every three years.
What are we going to do? Trade Fitz, go right back into the “search for the next Jim Kelly” that brought us nothing but losses and be happy that we got 3 non-QB first round picks over the next two years to hopefully walk away with a Lee Evans, maybe a Nate Clements if we’re lucky? Not counting 2008 and after again, you have to go all the way back to 1999,1996, and 1995 to find three Bills first rounders that are even remotely worth the cost of losing Fitzpatrick in Antoine Winfield, Eric Moulds, and Ruben Brown.
I’m quite alright with Ryan Fitzpatrick and what the team is building here and taking our shot at the casino like odds that is the draft with the 2 first rounders we have for free over the next two years. I just dont see the urgency or the need to get two more when the odds are enormously high we will be setting this franchise back when we are finally on the climb back to the top of the mountain.
Lets not forget, while all the scouts and talking heads are telling us Andrew Luck is the greatest QB of all time, which he might very well be, a lot of people said many of the same things about most of the guys on that horrific list of first round QBs since 2000. A ton of them were can’t miss guys, just like Andrew Luck.
I’d rather keep plowing forward and winning games, building confidence in the lockerroom and encouraging the incredible chemistry that is developing. All professional teams have the talent to win it all. The very best are the ones that develop chemistry and play for each other. This team has that and its a heck of a risk to trade Fitzpatrick hoping to find something better.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Oct 20, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
Rec'd
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 20, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My man Poz! Rec’d.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Oct 20, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree poz best thing to do would keep fitz and groom.a guy under neath him. Then when your ready to start the young guy trade fitz. Never get rid of someone until you have some one to replace him.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 20, 2011 11:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Poz
Once again, sir, I’m of like mind. It would destroy the team’s morale for years to make that trade, PARTICULARLY in the middle of the season. Good God, what a signal that sends. “Screw winning now, abandon the rest of the season, guys. You don’t need to play hard and make the playoffs this year.” Whether we had talent or not after that, the players would never forget what the front office did. It would make the Lee Evans trade look like it had never happened.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Poz
I agree with most of that, but you ruined it by putting aaron Rodgers in the “might be better than Fitz” category. MIGHT BE ?? Really ?? I don’t think even Fitz thinks that Aaron Rodgers wouldn’t be an upgrade over him :)
#99 Mount Doom Dareus
Very Persuasive
I voted “yes” based on my misconception of just how valuable a first round pick is. In my mind, to get two of the draft’s best athletes would be too good to turn down.
But Poz, you bring up great points about just how much of a gamble first round draftees can be. Why give up a QB who is winning games for our team for a player or two who MAYBE will win games for our team?
You’ve got me convinced, Poz. I wish I could change my vote to NO.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Oct 21, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree with you
although i voted yes, in the offseason. you do make some good points, especially that this team has such great chemistry. Although i disagree with you that those 4 QBs might be better than fitz, because they are and by a pretty noticeable amount. They are consistently accurate (maybe not Eli), fitz just is not as accurate as they are. and 3/4 of them have won the superbowl. Also i think vick, palmer and cutler are franchise QBs. Vick would be a pretty big upgrade over fitzpatrick IMO. Palmer was a franchise QB, but he was injured so he wouldn’t. i think Cutler is slightly better than Fitz, but that can be argued both ways. Overall it would be a good “madden trade” but in reality trading Fitz would be detrimental to this team. even though i think he should not be the starter in 2-3 years and firmly believe we still need to draft a QB in rounds 1 or 2 this year to groom for the future.
Fitzmagic
I get what you're saying, but
3 of the 4 guys you put in the “might be an upgrade” have Super Bowl rings, so I don’t think there’s any “might” there. And my guess is that if you asked every single league executive if they’d rather have Philip Rivers or Fitzy, 100% of them would pick Rivers.
In the Fitzpatrick comparison category, I’d rather have Vick or Cutler than Fitzy, and I think Alex Smith, Campbell and Vince Young would all be lateral moves, or on the same plane as Fitzpatrick.
I know we love him as the heart and soul of our scrappy team right now, but even with a good team around him, which I’m not sure we even have yet, I don’t see this team going anywhere better than 10-6 at its highest possible potential.
I love the guy’s attitude, demeanor, work ethic, and intangibles, I just don’t see him having the physical skill set to take us to a Super Bowl or even deep into the playoffs. And if we aren’t trying to build toward that, then what are we even playing for?
I’d love to be proven wrong, but I just don’t see it.
You’re crazy if you think that Young, Vick, or Smith are lateral moves to Fitz. Vick has more physical talent, but I will take Fitz’s brains and passion over his any day of the year.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
great response poz
multiple high fives for that………..
those who said yes
would you trade Fitz for Spiller & Dareus (if they weren’t Bills)?
as for this
Unfortunately it would be very unlikely the Bills would still have a chance to contend for the playoffs this year.
I disagree. It’s not unlikely they make the playoffs. It will be tough, but not unlikely.
yes
i prefer Dareus and Spiller over Fitz.
by Fernando brazil on Oct 20, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't
Spiller is a poor man’s Amp Lee and Dareus is a 3-4 DE. Although, I don’t trust Fitzpatrick long term, he’s certainly much more important to this team than those two. He’s also a better player.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Spiller is a poor man’s Amp Lee? C’mon man, you don’t have to love the guy, but I’m sure Amp Lee never averaged 7YPC like Spiller is this season, while being moved to wideout and catching 5 balls…
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to disrespect Lee so much
Spiller has 15 carries this year, so that 7 ypc doesn’t mean a whole lot.
Amp Lee actually had a few very good seasons as a receiver. Their rushing stats both look similarly underwhelming. Lee had 4 50+ catch seasons, including 3 that were over 60. In that four season stretch he averaged 63 receptions for 620 yards. I’d love to see Spiller accomplish that, but I think it’s unlikely based on his current skill set and the guy ahead of him.
I didn’t mean to undersell Amp Lee.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Agreed. Amp Lee was actually a pretty darn good player “for his role.” Which is exactly what the Bills have in Spiller. A role player. Not sure why anyone would waste a high first round pick on that when there were so many other holes to fill. the fact that Gailey can’t get Spiller on the field and that he is now filling in at WR says a lot to me.
Kurrupt I actually think
Spiller will develop into a pretty darn good wr for us. He looked good catching the ball against the giants. that may be his nitch. he can play the slot with Nelson, and he can stretch the defense with his speed outside. all we have to do is teach him how to gain separation at the los and he beats every db deep, hands down. look for gailey to play spiller outside more now coming out of the bye. teams won’t be expecting that. all we have to do is line him up outside and defenses have to respect his speed (which they already do). then guess what? the pressure comes off stevie and he tears it up like he did last yr! I also see chandler getting more touches after the bye as well, not just in the redzone either.
yes for sure
i can trade a playoff this year for maybe a SB contending team for years to come.
by Fernando brazil on Oct 20, 2011 4:56 PM EDT reply actions
with a 1st round pick
we can draft Landry Jones, or RGIII or maybe Matt Barkley. All three look like will be better than Fitz in maybe 2 years.
by Fernando brazil on Oct 20, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
whoa, slow your roll
getting rid of Fitz midseason like that would totally destroy the morale of the team. They wouldn’t want to play for a staff they couldn’t trust. I mean to sacrifice all of the hard work and effort they put into this season for two 1st rd picks that have never played a down in the nfl? Crazy! Stick with Fitz and cont to build your team around him. A QB drafted in the 1st doesn’t equate to success. Get you a guy you can groom behind Fitz.
by youngchamp on Oct 22, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely not
The biggest difference between the situation in Cincy and the situation here is that Carson Palmer was essentially spare parts. They already had their QB of the Future in Dalton, and a serviceable backup in Gradkowski. Getting these extra picks allows them to improve other areas of their team like RB and CB.
On the other hand, if we trade Fitz, we have absolutely no depth behind him. Tyler Thigpen? Please. Levi Brown? After his practice squad eligibility runs out, he’s probably done. Any rookie QB we draft would basically need to be an immediate starter, and I think Luck is the only one ready to lead a team to the playoffs as a rookie.
I also don’t think, with 2 2012 1sts near the bottom of the round, and 2 2013 1sts, we’d have enough ammo to compete with a team like Cleveland or whoever might actually want Luck in the top 5. It’d cost too much to trade up.
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
The Bengals really took the Raiders to the cleaners. Losing Gradkowski meant the Raiders had to do something. It just so happens they had to saunter up to the Tiger’s cage and provide a peace offering.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 21, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
In a freakin heartbeat.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2011 7:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes, yes, yes!
If the Bills were in the same position as the Bengals ABSOLUTELY!
"Being a Bills Fan is a Tough Job for Tough People…" – Luther6
lol
Like we had just drafted an early round QB and he’s a rookie, and he’s playing well, and there’s a retired guy we like own the rights to.. I think that’s a no brainer.
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 20, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a tough call
but given Fitz’s shortcomings and the apparent QB talent that could be had in this years draft i would probably say yes. Previous years QB’s always seem shaky and there were no sure things (if one even exists) at the QB position. However, the upcoming QB’s like Luck, Jones, Barkley, Griffin III, and maybe a few others just seem to be better than most years. I’d be willing to roll the dice, trade Fitz and then get one of those guys and another good piece like a good OLB, WR, TE, or even an o lineman to help continue to build this franchise.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Oct 20, 2011 9:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
YOU KNOW WHAT
When the second round started, guess what fellas we had a chance to draft Dolton , and we passed and got a half a**ss corner, when we could of easily had dalton playing under fitz and traded him for a first…. but i dont think hes worthy of 2 first. maybe a 2nd and 3rd
hmmmm
Could we get luck for FOUR first round picks? ( our, and say, the Raiders?) Would I make that trade? Yes. However, it’s impossible to know if the owner of the Andrew Luck pick would. So, I’d have to answer “No”. It’s been too long since we’ve had ANYBODY worth ANYTHING at QB to risk it.
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak" "Did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor!!??"-John Belushi
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Oct 20, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s the other side of the coin. If teams feel the expense for Luck is a no-brainer, then any team that gives nothing up in compensation just to draft him will likely feel no amount of picks are worth the trade.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 21, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Dalton and williams are in their first season. Dalton walked into tcu at the nfl level. He has a great defense and is not asked to put up.crazy amounts of pounts. I want to see how he does with out the nations best defense at least before I crown him. Williams is a corner and a rookie. I do not know what you expected of him. He was not gonna shut guys down year one. He is going to have rookie mistakes. Most of all you can not accuratly judge a draft pick till three years later.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 20, 2011 11:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
um i would not want dalton
although hes played well so far i just dont see him being a very successful QB. Also Aaron Williams will be the #1 corner on this team in 2-3 years. That was a great pick, unfortunately he is injured at the moment.
Fitzmagic
Honestly when I made this poll
I thought it might be that I didn’t put enough compensation for Fitz and the No’s would overwhelm. I find this very surprising.
No Brainer
Fitz isn’t a franchise QB, to many TO (picks). Its quite obvious. He’s a good alternative till we get our QB, nothing more.
by buffalobacker on Oct 20, 2011 10:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
In a Heartbeat.
Love Fitz. Love his guts, his gumption, his smarts, his never surrender attitude. But he’s already approaching 30, I don’t think he’s going to get much better than he is now (if at all), and even with his admirable showing thus far this year, I still have serious doubts BFLO will contend for the playoffs when all is said and done.
With 3 first rounders (plus the rest of the draft – what do they have, 3 4th rounders?), you could fill some of the still obvious talent gap. Even if you only hit on 2 of the 3, that’s still 2 more starters on this team (or a franchise-level QB and 1 starter). You know what you’re getting with Fitz and sure, in theory you could bust on all 3 firsts, but even this franchise would find that extremely difficult.
Course, I’d be fascinated to know who would trade 2 firsts for a 30 year old, good-to-middling QB having his best season ever in a contract year. Now that’d be a poll…“Which Team Would Do This?”
Would you trade Fitz for Whitner and McCargo?
Dear lord. It took us how long to find a QB/WR/OL/RB combo that can win games on its own merit, and now you want to trade the centerpiece?
OK
Like were in the play -offs or something? Whole lot of season left sir. Lets not get to excited here. We have along way to go. Go Bills!!!
by buffalobacker on Oct 20, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Is the same regime drafting now that drafted those two? No, it’s not. The question is about right now.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Oct 21, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Or McBusto and Maybin?
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Oct 21, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't stand
using Buffalo’s own failures to hit on 1st-round draft picks as justification to not do this (hypothetical) deal. Whitner and McCargo were busts for where they were picked, yes, but that’s the past regime’s fault for valuing them too highly. I trust our front office now to make better choices than that if we were handed two first-rounders in a very good draft class next season.
I know other teams have first-round busts as well, but I think the (lack of) elite talent on our team is being masked right now by guts, grit, determination, or whatever you want to call it, and I’m just not sure how long we can hold on to that ‘magic,’ so to speak. I’m certainly glad we’ve won 4 games already this season, but there is a scenario in which I can see the wheels coming off a little bit, or at least getting a little bit wobbly and finishing the year in the 9-7 range. Getting to the playoffs would be nice, but do you honestly think this is a Super Bowl team right now?
Adding two first-round talents to this team, even if it meant losing our QB, would help us more in the long run, even if it quashed whatever chemistry or momentum we have going right now, in my opinion.
A Bird in the Hand
Is worth Two in the bush.
No way.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
by Dyl on Oct 20, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Can you imagine what losing Fitzpatrick
would do to this team? The offense would be completely devastated. The morale of the team wouldn’t recover for years, and no Andrew Luck would improve it based on production. You’re losing more than just production, you’re losing more than just an attitude. Fitzpatrick is the captain of this football team, and in that way he’s the foundation of the entire team. I wouldn’t trade what he is to this team for two first round gambles.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
by Dyl on Oct 20, 2011 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And we're forgetting the obvious
That no team would ever even OFFER two 1st round picks for Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
That no team would ever even OFFER two 1st round picks for Ryan Fitzpatrick.
No kidding. But that wasn’t the question.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Oct 21, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It's never really about one thing.
It is not about the QB, it is not about the coach, it is not about the other players and it is not about the scheme. It is about all of this coming together as one. This is the closest we have come in along time and I wouldn’t trade it away for anything. There is and never will be a guaruntee that Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning will win the superbowl every year.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
disagree – chemistry is somewhat important but totally overhyped by the media – talent wins out almost every time and what the teams needs is more talent… Don’t forget that the “Bickering Bills” went to four straight super bowls…
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If you can honestly look at this roster and say that the current Bills have more talent than the Patriots, Raiders, and Eagles, and less than the Bengals, then you are seeing something I’m not. The success of the team this year is due as much if not more to leadership and chemistry of the team than talent.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
A team of less talented individuals that plays as a team will outplay and win against a team of talented individuals that play as individuals.
Fitzpatrick should have just walked around the stadium yelling "Are you not entertained!!!" ~ Dana H
by maestro110584 on Oct 21, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes-yes-yes
“Team” always wins.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Oct 21, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that the Bills are more talented than the Raiders and certainly the Eagles have talent at certain positions, but are woefully deficient at some of the most important positions in the game… but we’re not talking about individual matchups where the sample size is so small, but rather the season as a whole – typically the teams with the most talent win most of the games – other factors go into it for sure, but talent is paramount… hell, look at the Miami Heat (hate them btw) – they couldn’t have less chemistry and still went 6 games into the NBA finals…
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
We aren’t talking about basketball, though. Basketball is the most individual of team sports. One or two guys can carry a team really far in basketball. Football is a completely different animal, and I think that it’s fairly obvious (at least to me) that a marginally talented team can and will beat a very talented team if the marginally talented team plays as a team when the talented guys don’t. That is, once again, why we were able to beat the Raider, Patriots, and Eagles this year. I also don’t think we’re as talented as the Giants, but were one bad throw away from beating them.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
What this team needs is
Consistency. This isn’t Madden. This is real life, and this type of move would absolutely shatter the continuity and consistency this team has built over the last year and a half and somehow overcome a decade of blown draft picks. And I’d say aside from maybe Fred Jackson, no player is more important to how our offense operates than Fitzpatrick. Trading him at this point would’ve been a huge mistake for an organization that simply cannot afford another one.
by Renegade23 on Oct 21, 2011 8:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And Chemistry
I forgot to mention Chemistry.
Check this out: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-10-20/what-makes-bills-tick-football-fun-food-and-fitzgerald
this is a no brainer...
you have to do it – 2 first rd picks is monstrous and you’d have to take it… Fitz isn’t the long term answer (might not even be the short term answer) and you could really set your franchise up well
I see no way any teams convinces the Dolphins or Colts to trade the rights to draft Luck. The Colts are in worse shape than most people want to realize. They’re at the tail end of their run and it would make more sense than anything else to set themselves up to draft a potential franchise QB. Manning was just kind enough to help them out this year.
And the Dolphins. Stink. Just stink. But what stinks more than anything is who as a Bills fan do you want to land Luck? If it’s teh Colts then they likely suffer little setback in returning to their dominating ways. If it’s the Dolphins then you have to face Luck twice a year.
I don’t see any way Luck fails as an NFL QB, but I am curious to watch his pro development. Just how much is attributed to Harbaugh and was he able to learn from him and apply the knowledge independently, or will ne be lost with his former coach?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 21, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
have you watched him play the last few weeks? Aside from KC, and Oak, he has been mediocre at best with as many picks as TDs and was like 4-10 as a starter last season… We’re 4-2 because of Freddie, the improved O-line and Gailey – Fitz threw the game away against the Giants, cost us points at the end of the half against Philly, got us in a 21-0 hole against NE with 2 picks and actually did throw the game away against Oakland but was saved by a great play by Jones in the end zone and another drop in the end zone by a LB (Mclain maybe?)… I didn’t say he wasn’t but I don’t think it’s a slam dunk either…
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
The Raiders did this because they have no QB. Their coach is running the show with no GM and no owner involved right now. They’re wearing their hearts on their sleeve, pulling out all the stops with Palmer to pay tribute to Davis (at least as I see it.)
The Bengals weren’t ever going to get Palmer to play for them again. So they played it very well. What was once considered a lost-cause situation turned into 2 free lucrative draft picks. The Bills don’t have a QB behind Fitzy, and they don’t have a QB unwilling to play for them.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 21, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions
You will starve your franchise......
Trading Fitzpatrick for two first round draft picks, the answer is NO. The Bills organization is not like the Cincinnati Bengals franchise where they have NO General Manager making decent football decisions. Fitzpatrick is winning games, something the other quarterbacks that were brought here to Buffalo could not produce. I don’t want to name any names, our team history speaks for itself. So he doesn’t have a strong arm and maybe he not the “franchise quarterback” or “the future of the Bills”. He is winning games for the Bills, why would you get rid of your “plow mule” in order to rebuild your team from scratch which will take two more years to develop. You will starve your franchise.
I agree that we’re not the Bengals (thankfully) but you have to admit that as much heat as Mike Brown took in the offseason and through camp, this was one of the savviest front office plays ever… They’re 4-2 with a young developing team and they moved an oft-injured QB who’s horrible for 2 first rounders…
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Part of me thinks Mike Brown new this situation would play out.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 21, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree – I still don’t think even he thought he could get 2 firsts for Palmer though!
by JustAskTheAxis on Oct 21, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
RIght to both of you. Brown probably anticipated some scenario like this developing, but to play out as well as he did, even he probably didn’t believe it!
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Oct 21, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
as well as it did
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Oct 21, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No, probably not
I don’t believe Fitzpatrick can lead this franchise over the hump, but he’s showing he can certainly bring it to the hump. We haven’t had a QB able to do that since Jimbo.
Now if some team, say the Raiders, would have come to the Bills with their Carson Palmer offer, I’d decline. You don’t trade away your most important piece in the middle of a potential playoff run. You do what you can to make the playoffs, where anything can happen. Two potential 1st rounders is huge, but the timing of that trade just could never have happened here.
In the offseason, you accept that trade and pray you can get Andrew Luck with your slew of picks (after franchising Fitz to keep him off the FA market, of course). Landry Jones and others probably wouldn’t be a bad consolation, either. If a trade like this were somehow going to happen, the Bills would have to have expectation that they’d be able to get a stud QB prospect, while also believing Fitz couldn’t lead them any further than he has.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 21, 2011 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No
These would be late round picks. We’d lose our chance of making the playoffs this year. Who’s to say these picks would even get us impact players or a QB better than Fitz?
I said NO...Fitz is good for at least 4 plus years.
Build the TEAM through the draft. We have much more pressing needs right now. Thankfully at this time it’s not the O-line that is the concern. It’s still Defense: DL depth, OLB pass rush, CB’s getting man handled unable to cover 1 on 1. Sure Offensively we need WR deep threat, OL more depth cant hurt. RB late rd depth. QB ??? Fitz is definitely our short term QB 4 yrs plus. Why waste picks only to put him on PS or cut?
I ask you this…If Fitz completes the last pass to Johnson and scores a TD to preserve the WIN, Do you still feel the same about wanting to trade for those 1ST round picks?
The Bills are still in good position for a Playoff push…Still a lot of games left to be played. I believe how healthy we are determines if we make it. Injuries have shown us just how much we are lacking in depth. I hope this bye week gets guys healthy and focused towards an extended season.
while I would
like to say yes to trading fitz for two first rounders, the past 10’ish years have totally sucked being a bills fan and being the laughing stock of the football world and having to defend your team for so long. fitz may not be the best QB in the league, but he is definately a player worth cheering on for what he brings to this team and the game. this season is the first in a hell of a long time that i am proud to be a bills fan, and trading that away for a couple spins of the roulette wheel are not worth it. i couldnt take more jp losmans, trent edwards or the like for the next 10 years. i will take fitz and be happy for once.
Hi, I'm Jim Kelly for the Mancuso Family of Dealerships.
I can't believe how many people said no.
If Chan can make journeymen QBs like Fitz, Thigpen, and Fiedler look good, Imagine what he could do with 1st round Franchise QB talent.
4 1sts, 2 of ours and 2 in the trade, that’s mucho ammo to move up, I can’t believe anyone wouldn’t do it.
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by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 22, 2011 12:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The Real Question Should Be...
“Would you trade Fitz for two 7th round picks?”
The Bills don’t do very well with 1st round picks. It’s evaluating and picking 7th round talent where the Bills really shine.
But the answer is still ‘no.’
(Note: This was facetious.)
Perhaps if you sweetened the deal by throwing in first dibs on the undrafted guys…
Fitzpatrick should have just walked around the stadium yelling "Are you not entertained!!!" ~ Dana H
by maestro110584 on Oct 22, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The main ? for me is WHEN.
Would the trade be good now? IMO no because we haven’t seen a full season with Fitz and Gailey together.
Chan may take a QB and make them above average, but none of them have been pro bowler/super bowl type QBs either. So lets be realistic. With Fitz yet to realize his full potential playing w Chan (since he’s yet to complete a full season) it’s prudent to wait and see if he can be something more than what Chans all ready produced in a QB. If they gave up on Fitz now, you lose that opportunity and begin at square one, leaving this season in ruins and Chans job in jeopardy (also, any rookie QB brought in w extra picks most likely would develop under a new regime anyway).
If anything, i think this trade of Palmer is simply a good berometer of Fitzys potential worth in a few years. I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting RGIII now, sit him behind Fitz for 2 seasons, then unleash him under Gaileys direction armed with multiple first round picks after the trade of Fitz to Oakland (after all, the Raiders will need a QB again in a few seasons won’t they? :).
As much as I like Fitz
and think he is our leader right now, he just scares me when it comes to big games. He has the ability to light up the scoreboard…but he also has the same ability to throw a game in crucial times like Favre. Yeah, Favre is a future HOF QB and won some championships, but he just as easily kept them out of some as well. That to me is Fitz. If we stick with Fitz and cont to surround him with talent and keep him in the same system with Gailey, I do believe he can lead us to a championship victory or two, but he could also lose some for us too. Fitz is a guy I’m willing to gamble with though because he is so freaking smart. And the elite QB’s have superior intelligence to compensate for their lack of physicality etc. Am I saying Fitz is elite? He definitely has the potential to be, IF we allow him to be. For nickfeely8 to say
and I think Alex Smith, Campbell and Vince Young would all be lateral moves, or on the same plane as Fitzpatrick.
is ridiculous! Thos guys are nowhere near as intelligent as Fitz. Yeah, they may be more athletic but when has athleticism trumped intelligence when it came to the elite QB status? I wouldn’t trade Fitz midseason for two 1st rd picks. Now, let’s talk in the offseason after we see what he does in the second half of the season. I would much rather keep Fitz, cont to build our team around him and if we have the chance to draft an understudy QB to sit behind Fitz well then that couldn’t hurt us either. Just ask the Packers. If you ask me, I think team CHIX had their eyes set on Ponder to be our 2nd rd pick. He has the same make-up as Fitz. He would have been a great pick up for us. So, my point is watching Fitz play increases my blood pressure on game day, but I still say we can win with Fitz now and in the future!
Ponder’s already a Viking. Did you use the wrong name, perhaps?
"Teams that don't deserve to win.... Usually don’t. Today is no exception." -- Mr Huge Pecs
"Nick Barnett is everywhere. He is behind you right now." -- Munchausen
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Oct 22, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
gotcha. i think you’re right.
"Teams that don't deserve to win.... Usually don’t. Today is no exception." -- Mr Huge Pecs
"Nick Barnett is everywhere. He is behind you right now." -- Munchausen
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Oct 22, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
would you trade your mother for two first round picks??
that’s the way i feel about fitz, even though i will be the first
one to acknowledge his weaknesses, he is the backbone of
this team, above and beyond any other player.
and that is why the QB gets the most money on most teams.
forget about #1 picks…..
remember this, Kent Hull was UNDRAFTED…………….
Jackson was UNDRAFTED
Nelson was UNDRAFTED………….
Kyle Williams was a #5 rounder
Stevie was a #7, ditto Fitz…..
more than half of our offensive line was either undrafted or picked off waivers…….
I think the Bills’ biggest problem in the past decade has been blowing things up every three or four years. We need to settle on a system and the players who will play in it. Fitz is successful in the Chan Gailey system. If we blow that up, who knows?
Note: Palmer was traded for a first rounder in 2012 and a conditional 2nd rounder 2013; the conditional becomes a first rounder if the Raiders make the AFC chamionship game this year or next. Still this was a STEAL for the Bengals
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