On Shawne Merriman And His Contract Situation
by Brian Galliford on Oct 26, 2011 12:10 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintEver since Buffalo Bills outside linebacker Shawne Merriman landed on Injured Reserve on Tuesday afternoon, there's been a lot of talk about the risky contract the Bills signed him to earlier this calendar year. The most opinionated of the lot in the discussion is Gregg Rosenthal, who seems to have had some sort of hategasm after the 4-2 Bills had everyone thinking nice thoughts for six weeks.
Rosenthal does have a point, thanks largely to the reporting of Tim Graham: the contract language that guaranteed $3 million of Merriman's $4 million 2012 salary - whether he's on the roster or not - was very clearly a bad idea for the Bills. That's true even considering the concessions Merriman's camp gave elsewhere, such as Merriman's drop in base salary now that he's on IR: Merriman made $1.13 million over the first seven weeks of the season; he'll make $294,120 the rest of the season. (Most NFL players on IR still earn full salary.)
In all, the Bills paid Merriman (if our calculations are correct) $3.63 million this season, will pay him the rest of his reduced-rate salary, and will owe him $3 million on next year's books whether GM Buddy Nix decides to bring him back for one last try or not. That's a lot of money for a player with one sack - and who may be done in Buffalo.
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I’m okay with it. Sometimes stuff happens.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Oct 26, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
Exactly. It was a poorly calculated risk (an injury prone player is injured? I’m shocked) but it’s just money, and it’s pretty likely they wouldn’t have been spending that on anyone else. If they gave up a draft pick or lost a promising player because of it that’d be one thing, but they didn’t.
It was a good gamble to take. It was not a huge contract and like you said no draft picks.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"it's just money" because it's somebody else's money
Yet money is still money, even if we’re way under the salary cap. Sometimes I feel like too many people in Buffalo treat other people’s money (i.e. Ralph’s money) like it’s water.
But to Wilson, that’s still $3mm out the door. I don’t know about Wilson’s personal finances, but I suspect that he doesn’t have the same deep pocket book like Mark Cuban or Dan Snyder. To Wilson, that’s $3mm that could’ve been spent on somebody else, somebody more productive.
by paythemannow on Oct 26, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I question that Merriman took 3 million of someone else’s money. I think Ralph walked into the deal eyes wide open and came up empty. It hurts now that it has played out but without knowing the outcome I think Ralph does the deal all over again and feels good doing it.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
Yah it was a great bet to take. Thats what it was a bet. So far we have lost got to.wait tilll training camp.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with this part
You win some and you lose some.
My comment was really re: other people’s comments that “since we are below the salary cap, who cares about how much money we just wasted”
by paythemannow on Oct 26, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ralph hasn’t even been to a home game this year. I’m not sure how “eyes wide open” he is to anything concerning the team right now.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 26, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of the money is from revenue sharring I am sure.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If losing $3m is an issue for Wilson, he shouldn’t own an NFL franchise. Something tells me his estate will survive. I don’t feel bad for a multi-millionair when a $3 million dollar investment fails especially when you are getting so much return from so little investment elsewhere (Fitz, FredEx, Stevie, D. Bell, etc.)
by Slick Shifty on Oct 26, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
But what was the true value of the signing?
Without Merriman being here, Barnett and Morrison don’t sign. Granted, Morrison has been hurt, but Barnett has been a HUGE signing for us. Think it still looks that bad?
And Morrison may be hurt, but players get hurt. Morrisson signing was great to have in the mix with Barnett’s long-term health (and ability to stay healthy) a bit up in the air (at the time), Davis having lost a step, Shep and White having injury troubles in camp/preseason (not sure how those were timed vs the signing) and being rookies besides. They got him for next to nothing, and essentially nothing when you consider that the 1 year term and timing of the signing meant it could have absolutely no affect on preventing any other signing/contract.
Merriman helped break the ice, first by agreeing to sign here. Even if he had few options, he still chose to sign here. That sent a big signal around the league in my mind, and that signal came to fruition when he actively courted big name, respected players to come here, regardless of what their options might have been. The ice has been broken, and along with the success the team is having, that should pay dividends over the next couple offseasons whether Merriman stays or not.
by paxon on Oct 27, 2011 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Was a very good calculated risk to me. Good may even be putting it mildly. The worst that can happen now is that they don’t bring him back next season but still tie $3m up in him. That is nothing with the cap room they have and shouldn’t hinder them making any signings this offseason, especially with an eye towards the following offseason and institution of the cap floor.
The only risk they took is in not adding anyone else to the position, but who is to say just how much the Merriman singing affected that? One would imagine it played a role but it could be that regardless they saw little available to them in free agency and the draft.
by paxon on Oct 27, 2011 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
still a bargin compared to Maybin
How much guaranteed did Maybin get for his zero sacks?
I wasn't sure I was going to like the white helmets but seeing them in the practice footage, I've got to say that I love the look.
by Ron From NM on Oct 26, 2011 12:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
holy smokes those are some low standards
Seriously? It’s not as bad as Maybin so it’s okay? Totally bonkers to give 3 of the 4 mil guaranteed for 2012, considering the history.
Where did Ron say it was “okay”?
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Oct 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine, not “okay,” but obviously the implication of a comparison is to say signing A. is acceptable because signing B. was so egregiously worse.
What is obvious to you isn’t to me. I think Ron was joking.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Oct 26, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe it was sarcasm
apologies if it was. Otherwise, a mind frame of “at least losing that $5 bill wasn’t as bad as losing that $20 bill” doesn’t make much sense to me.
I saw it as saying least we did not hand him a huge contract and at least he did something.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe it was a joke. One I was set to make here myself.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 26, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Two of the three
biggest decisions by Chuddy (2 1st rounders and Merriman) have not produced immediate results which is what we need, immediate impact.
Dareus is playing very well.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Oct 26, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yah not sure what stats people were looking For from a run.stopping 34 de. Dareus has been playing well and eating up alot of double teams.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yet, the run D is stil terrible
Dareus has not been disruptive, has not done much to help the pass rush and thus far, hasn’t been worthy of a top 3 pick. Of course, its way too early to make any concrete determinations and hopefully he starts making more plays soon. I think some minor injuries may have effected him, so the bye may help him there.
I do tend to agree with the notion that it wasn’t a super pick because of the position he plays and how little the impact can be from a 3-4 DE. Its too bad Von Miller hadn’t slipped to us or Nix hadn’t gone with superstud AJ Green. Hope Dareus proves his worth and really helps this D soon….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 1:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Dareus has been disruptive and I think he just played his best game to date, against the Giants.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Oct 26, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, but the run D is not "terrible" this year.
Aside from a couple of long gainers, they have done a resonable job of keeping the YPC at 4.0 or lower against some good backs like McFadden.
If you take away Bradshaws one 30yd run at the end of the game then he was held to well under 4.0ypc.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Unfortunately, you can't just do that
The run D is still one of the worst in the league, even if its a little better than last year. They have been hurt on some reverses and Vick, which aren’t typical plays, but overall the unit is still quite bad and needs to really improve.
They need a healthy Kyle Williams and better play out of the entire front 7. The DB’s have had to do too much in run support.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 2:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess we will have to disagree then. Last year teams ran on us all day for 4+ a pop
This year we have done a much better job on containing the run a majority of the time.
After watching the games from last year compared to this year, I think there is a noticable difference. We still have a ways to go, but it’s better and I think part of that credit goes to Dareus.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Last year teams ran on us all day for 4+ a pop.
They’re currently averaging 5.1 a pop this year, 4th worst in the league and 135.7 a game, 3rd worst in the league. I’m not sure what there is to disagree about.
They gave up more yards last year but that’s because teams ran the ball 10x more a game against them thanks in part to not needing to get involved in a shootout with the offense.
by twoeightnine on Oct 26, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I can disagree because of what I see with my own eyes when teams try to run on us compared to last year.
They gave up more yards last year but that’s because teams ran the ball 10x more a game against them thanks in part to not needing to get involved in a shootout with the offense.
The fact that teams aren’t getting the great yardage running on us also contributes to the fewer attempts.
Do you really see last years run D holding McFadden to 3.6YPC on 20 attempts?
The Giants ran the ball 31 times against us for 3.7YPC. Before Florence’s missed tackle on the 30yd run by Bradshaw, we had held him to 3.1YPC on 22 attempts, and he still only finished with a 4.0YPC.
The only team to try and run on us consistently and fare really well was Cinci.
I think the Philly game skews the stats a bit, as the season wears on I fully expect our run d numbers to move closer to the middle of the league. Vicks yardage accounts for 11% of our total so far, all teams are going to have trouble with his broken play runs.
The naked eye test tells me this run d is better and Dareus is a part of that. Obviously they aren’t good, maybe not even average, but definately better than last years terrible run d
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
The only difference
Is our Offense having the ball longer and scoring more to force teams to run a little bit less against us. Teams are averaging over 5 yards per carry this year,worse than last year.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 5:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, d-linemen do take a few years to really hit their stride, generally. Top 3 pick or not.
I think it was a fine pick because Nix is not looking at instant impact, he is looking at what Dareus could be next season, two seasons from now, etc. No one was looking at this season as any kind of success story, just a year of base improvement. We have improved, it’s just Dareus doesn’t look as good without Kyle Williams also disrupting things. He’ll be fine in the long run.
I guess the first pick next year will be a linebacker of one sort or another, that seems to be the progression things are following.
I just think we all need to keep in mind that the 4-2 Bills are surprisingly competent this year and overachieving. They were not expected to be in the running. So to say Dareus was a bad pick or is disappointing to date is going a little overboard. The Bills were 0-6 last year to this point and are 4-2 this year so far and have beaten better teams than they have in a long time. Maybe Dareus isn’t THE factor, but he is a factor in the transition.
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
I don’t know how you can claim this. You know what the defense looks like without Dareus? I think it looks worse. A lot worse.
I think that stats don’t tell you the whole story on what Dareus produces. I’ve been happy with Dareus so far. He doesnt give you the stats in sacks that maybe a von miller or a the receptions of a AJ Green, but I don’t think that means he’s been a bad value compared to those picks.
He is on pace for Ngata’s stats in his second year ~45 tackles and 3 sacks (and a few tipped passes). But these guys are forces without showing up in the box score the way a pure pass-rusher does. From what I’ve seen he is a major upgrade and decidely on track as far as development. But if you don’t believe it now, you never will, cause those stats are NOT gonna change a heck of a lot. NGata’s best year he had about 45 tackles and 5.5 sacks.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Oct 26, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you'd think I'd have called him an uber major bust
I’m not looking for nor expecting big stats out of him. How could anyone expect that out of a 3-4 DE?
I don’t think he’s been overly disruptive yet so why is that such a problem for you? There have been a few plays, but as I said, its early and I feel he’s been playing through injury. Since you seemed to avoid that part of my comment, I’ll add that I haven’t expected him to be overly disruptive, just that its hurt that we haven’t had a ton of push up the middle or tackles in the backfield. Without a healthy Williams, its hard to expect much, but as I said, going forward we are going to need to see more plays out of him, even if its just pushing the pocket more or getting some tackles in the backfield. He’s played pretty well, but will need to step up further if Williams is out for any more time.
I think Dareus and any 3-4 DE is poor value that high in the draft unless they are a great pass rusher (like a Suh for example). I’d rather go after potential game changers like the two mentioned, but that’s just my philosphy on the 3-4 DE position and its perceived value.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 5:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i 100% disagree with you can
Dareus has been one of the top players on this defense so far. I was so happy when Dareus Fell to us. he will be a major cornerstone in these defense for the next 10 years. I dont get why you are always looking for major plays out of first round picks so early (spiller,darues) give them time. it will happen they are great football players.
Fitzmagic
I hope he's a cornerstone too
He should be because he will be a solid player, at least.
Major plays out of top ten picks? How about some plays? Dareus has tipped a few balls and sacked Andy Dalton, so its a start. Hope we see more. Spiller was brought in to ignite a stagnant offense and almost a ayear and a half in, he has yet to do so. He’s not a great player or even a good one right now, and I’d be shocked if he’s ever considered great at this level.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 5:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
alright
i really think spiller is a special player. the play against the eagles where he was forced back 5 yards into the backfield and then made a ten yard run out of it. and i have to disagree with you spiller has had some GREAT plays this year, including the one i just said. a couple games where he had limited touches he had a couple big runs. i forget which game but he had 4 carries for like 68 yards or something like that. that is making plays.
Fitzmagic
Agree to disagree….hope Spiller turns into a great player for the Bills. I’d love to be proven waaay wrong.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 8:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
and i think....
this move to Wideout will help Spiller see the field more. Let’s face it, FredEx is not going to let him see time out of the backfield any time soon, so these reps could help us to get Spiller involved more..
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
While i’m a big fan of moving him to WR and getting something out of him, it may damage his ability to develop as a RB. I look at Devin Hester and think how long it’s taken him to become a WR. It reminds me of what could become of Spiller.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 26, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahmad Rashad....
was a running back in college… worked out well for him if I remember right….
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
Spiller needs to start making some plays
No matter where he’s lined up. Make some plays and he’ll start getting more opportunities, simple as that….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he’s done pretty well this year when he’s gotten carries, it’s just that Fred Jackson has done worse. Again, an indictment of that selection if you ask me (but that’s a convo for the offseason so I digress…..)
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Oct 26, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He said 2 1st rounders and merriman were not having immediate impact thats all three.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He did. I missed that up in the bold. Thanks.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Oct 26, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
2 of 3 he said have not produced results, and listed 2 1st rounders and Merriman, equaling three, meaning those were the 3 biggest decisions. That means 1 of the 1st rounders was considered to have produced immediate results and I assume that would be Dareus, with Spiller being in “not produced results” category.
We do not need immediate impact, and that is completely not the point of what Nix and Gailey are doing. You know what immediate impact gets you these days? The Eagles. You know what building slowly from the ground up gets you? The Steelers and Packers. Which team would you rather be?
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
and since....
we would only save 1 million of his 12 salary if we let him go, keep him on the roster and see if he can come back after this surgery…. Can always cut him from training camp if he can’t…
All in all, I still think it was a great gamble. One that may never pay off on the field, but his help with FAs and the youngsters has paid big….
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
by Cinga on Oct 26, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure the Bills come out on the winning side of this deal and yet I still think this was a good gamble. The possible upside was well worth the monetary commitment. I don’t see this different than any other good bet you take with the chance of coming up empty.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
He's a leader.
Sure he’s got an ACL issue – but he’s getting it taken care of (finally – should have been done 2 years ago). He’s been a leader on the field in the locker room, and the other defensive players – particularly Moats and Batten – have looked up to him these last two years. He’s been a solid influence on the team, and while he may not have played in every single game, he’s definitely part of the reason we’re 4-2 this year instead of 2-4.
I could think of worse things we could have done – like kept Maybin.
by Khegobier on Oct 26, 2011 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Achilles, not ACL.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Oct 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't the defense ranked 31st in the league?
by twoeightnine on Oct 26, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask norv turner how much those rankings mean.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Oct 26, 2011 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
All you’d get in reply is gibberish nonsense.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Oct 26, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
to be fair...
the chargers were 88th in special teams last year…got to cut them a little slack….
NA!!!!!!!!!!
sub achilles for acl
& right on.
Leader, mentor, brought other players in, 4-1 while dressed, attitude, nasty edge, etc.
"Alright Men, lets go out there, bust um in the chops & get somebody bloody. Keep working hard till you get it right. Take the W in battle & make the Bills Nation Proud." coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Oct 26, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Salary Cap Implications
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Bills still have a ways to go in getting to the “floor” of the salary cap. I understand we can account for some (potentially most?) of that by new deals being handed out to Fitzy, Stevie, Fred, D-Bell, etc. but the $3M next year can’t hurt, right?
Who knows maybe the surgery helps and he has one last big season in him. I say give him a chance next season. Especially if we’d be paying him NOT to play on our team. Is a 50% “Lights Out” Merriman better than say a 100% Danny Batten or Antonio Coleman (notice I didn’t include Arthur “Don’t Cross The” Moats)? I say yes.
Full transparency on the $3.63M figure for 2011: $1.5M signing bonus, $500K roster bonus, $500K workout bonus, $1.13M in base salary so far this year. Add in the rest, he’ll have made $3.92M by year’s end.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Oct 26, 2011 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
Deal.
When can I start?
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 26, 2011 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
500k to work out. Why doesn’t anyone pay me for my workouts? /sarcasm
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 26, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
because...
you do it for your own enjoyment???
:-)
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
Screw that…I hate working out.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Oct 26, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
How much was he paid last year?
That was another couple mill, right?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In two years
There may be a followup article on what a great deal we got.
His chances are better than decent that he’ll recover and have a solid year in 2012.
It was worth the risk and has not ‘played out’ quite yet. Next year, we’ll know.
How are they better than decent that he'll recover and on top of that have a solid year in 2012?
He’s played 21 games in the last 4 years. His last solid year was 2007 with 2009 being decent.
by twoeightnine on Oct 26, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
From what I’ve read, chances of recovery for Achilles surgery for an NFL player are 63 – 70% such that they can once again make the squad again and play. That doesn’t mean that he will be as effective as before the surgery – but if he was back in pre-season form, he’d be a solid performer.
The fact that it was caught before there was a full rupture is a definite +.
Does that mean he won’t pull a hammy/high-ankle, etc. Of course not. Simply means that the book has not yet been closed on Merriman. Next year, we’’ know.
If you got a 63-70% on the final exam of a course, you’d think that was pretty bad.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 26, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
All depends on the curve. :-) Just got to get the rest of the class drunk the night before.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Oct 26, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
????
He’s been hurt pretty much forever. How many games has he missed in the last 4-5 seasons? I don’t think he’ll recover. Can they get 8-10 snaps a game out of him? Maybe. I guess I’ll take it if they are paying him anyway.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Oct 26, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do we get so caught up in the money players make?
Who cares, he didn’t pan out and hopefully we move on and don’t bring him back. It wasn’t the worst decision that could’ve been made football wise, and he was a very sound player. attracting double teams and was a good teammate as far as I can see and helped recruit Nick Barnett a very productive risk that the Bills took. Not every decision is wise or works out, and whether it was 1 million or 3, or 5… we as fans should not get caught up in the finnancial figures. I don’t care if they pay a guy a billion dollars if he plays great, and as long as it doesnt hurt the bills chances of signing other players, then we’re good. Teams like ours who may be on the rise but continue to build will have holes on the roster and we may be in prime position to fill them next year, when we hopefully have less of them
I'm waitin'..... @killascript on twitter
Most of you forget...
That Merriman wasn’t solely brought in to be productive; he also had a ton of marketing value, being a team leader, and also bringing in other players. It was obvious that Merriman had a lot to do with Buffalo reaching out to Nick Barnett (who has been GREAT this year) so it can’t all be considered a waste. Give the guy one more year
why do people care so much its not our freakin money and it does not prevent us from signing any players we may want in the future so who cares, its not like the raiders trading a 1st rd and 2nd rd pick for a 31 year old qb, you build your team with picks and money spent on merriman has no bearing on us building in the future so again WHO CARES!!!!
Hitting on 16
Gambling is only dangerous if losing your bet hinders you from going about your daily business. Buffalo is flush with cap space, has been swapping veterans for mid-round picks for years, has employed a 7th round pick on his rookie contract as a starting LT for 3 seasons, and has paid their starting QBs peanuts since Drew Bledsoe was sent away seven years ago. They can afford to gamble and in fact, they should do it MUCH more often. They hit on 16 and I hope they do it again the next time they’re presented with the same hand.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Oct 26, 2011 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Nice analogy. Given the salary structure at OLB and the lack of real depth at the position, it didn’t cost us much (in fact the guy I liked who got cut because of giving Merriman a shot — Coleman, is back).
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Oct 26, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So is surgery in his plans now?
I thought as probably everyone else did if Shawne made it to week 8 this year we’d all be happily surprised. My own over/under was 6 weeks and he almost made it that far. Still a good gamble to take and maybe he does come back ready to roll next summer. My question is: Is he definitely getting surgery for this and what do they do if it’s not ruptured? Is it just partially torn? From what I’ve read there is no such thing as beneficial stretching for a tendon. It’s not a muscle obviously and it just goes no matter what kind of shape and flexibility you have.
by AlwaysaBillinPhilly on Oct 26, 2011 1:11 PM EDT reply actions
Let’s call it like it really is: a low- risk, high- reward situation. This year, there wasn’t much reward on the field. Achilles surgery doesn’t equate to the end of a career (see Takeo Spikes), so what is the harm in seeing what Merriman has in the tank next year? His injury isn’t the reason that the defense has been less successful or will continue to be so. If there is fault, it is that there isn’t proven depth behind him. That’s OBD’s shortcoming, not Merriman’s
I agree with the sentiment being shared by most here – it was a risk to take, and worth taking at the time, but unfortunately didn’t work out… these things happen, and while $3M is a lot to the average guy, in football terms it’s not an out of this world number – he’s not making Peyton Manning money to not play right now (or even Kerry Collins for that matter)
Playing time
The issue is partly money, but as is always with larger contracts on people with baggage is the commitment to play them. The Bills essentially planned this season expecting Merriman to play 16 games which was much riskier (from this point of view) than the money aspect. Additionally Moats was moved to ILB because of this stunting his growth as pass rusher. Taking the chance is one thing but Nix et al. should have made much better effort to find other players to rush the passer.
its like god gave us bruce
and then decided no more pass rushers for 20 years.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
Bryce Paup was a pretty good pass rusher.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Oct 26, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 26, 2011 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They didn’t get one in 20 years either (2005).
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 26, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They rolled the dice
And hit snake eyes!
As fans we are fickled, we complain that the Bills don’t spend money then complain when they spend and it doesn’t work out. Everyone knew Merriman was damaged goods when he was signed.Was he worth the risk, I would say he was even if he returned at 85% but he wasn’t able too so it is time to turn the page and move on!!
As the saying goes "sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you." or as in the Bills case “sometimes you get the Merriman, sometimes the Merriman gets you”……
.
"Football is NOT a contact sport - it is a collision sport.
Dancing IS a contact sport."
Duffy Daugherty / Michigan State
I never had a problem with the gamble, and still don’t. They took a chance, it didn’t cost too much, and it didn’t work out this year. He may come back and have a monster year (people have come back from this surgery), or he may never play another down as a Bill. As long as Nix realizes that team needs to draft a pass rusher, I’m fine with his time with the team.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
As long as Nix realizes that team needs to draft a pass rusher
And an offensive lineman or two, a cornerback, a tight end, a defensive end… and make them first round quality.
just draft an o-linemen in the first round in every draft...
the other positions can (apparently) be filled out with UFAs and 7th rounders.
if any position has been filled by cast offs its OL
besides levitre and wood of course. But our OL is fine draft another late rounder to develop and pick up a FA to compete in camp next year. But we already have Sam Young and Hairston Developing into future starting tackles, (maybe not Young but Pears is playing good). Also we DO NOT NEED A TE, if you havnt noticed we rarely pass to one only chandler because teams have trouble seeing a 6’7" man in the middle of the endzone, we run a 4 wr set all game long. and we dont need DE, carrington is the next guy after edwards and he has looked good so far. Our DL is good. Our BIGGEST need is OLB and that should be addressed in the 1st round, unless we have an opportunity to draft a franchise QB. then pick up another CB and a deep threat WR. then gain more depth at LB and DL with some of the rest of the picks.
Fitzmagic
Taking the risk on him was fine
Even bringing him back after not playing was fine, too. It may have enticed Barnett to come here, as well. The problem was the excessive contract and the unnecessary guarantees for 2012. Make him play 10-12 games this season before any 2012 guarantee comes into place. Oh well, though.
As I and many others talked about all summer, relying on him so heavily and having no other options is what made the move to re-sign him so questionable. The fact that Nix talked about how “set” they were at OLB since the end of last season is just asinine and laughable. Doing things like that make it hard to believe in his abilities to build this team, which were already very questionable to begin with.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 2:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with just about all this K, but I have yet to see a credible other option that can actually make an impact. Most teams didn’t let their FA OLBs out the door. It’s just tough to find these types of guys who are gonna make an impact, hence the reason for the gamble.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Oct 26, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
They could go beyond Free Agency
I don’t remember the available guys in FA, the draft and via trade at this point, but the lack of going after any fallback options was and still is puzzling, to say the least. They switched Battan and Moats back and forth at ILB and OLB, so I don’t really consider them as their viable “backup plan”. I just feel that this franchise has neglected the pass rush for way too long, and this season it might actually prevent a playoff berth (getting ahead of myself).
Wasn’t Kiwanuka available?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 6:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So they have to wait that long before they really go about fixing such a major issue?!? I sure hope not!!
I guess I’m one of the people who just hate hearing this 4-5 year rebuild thing. Maybe to be a true SB contender, but why can’t they compete and succeed now? We’re 4-2 and have had an offense capable of winning games this year, and probably for most of the year if all goes well w/Fitz, Freddie and the OL moving forward. Its disappointing knowing the pass rush is going to hold this team back all year, barring a miracle, and has been left basically unaddressed for years. Why should expectations be so low in that regard and can’t we criticize a decision that is obviously hamstringing the team?!? That’s all I’m getting at! Unfortunately, nothing can really be done now other than hoping for the best.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 8:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i agree with you
but we are 1 draft away from being that consistent playoff team. As you said we have the pieces on offense but we still need more talent on the defensive side of the ball. Ive said all along if the Bills go 8-8 that would be a great season for year 2 of a rebuild. But next year i am 100% expecting playoffs, there will be almost no excuses if it ends up not being the case.
Fitzmagic
As to what Nix says, you take it too seriously. Would it have been less laughable if he’s said " We are gonna gamble on Merriman?" I mean… honesty isn’t the GM’s priority in talking about players who are expected to start.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Oct 26, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He said it
And backed it up with his actions. I usually don’t care what he says, but he talked about it multiple times and then didn’t do anything to prove otherwise.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 26, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I didn’t like that when asked about linebacker depth and pass rush during the lockout they kept saying “Well, when we see Merriman and see how his injury is progressing I think we’ll see that he’s the answer to our depth and passrushing problems”. Talk about putting all of your very fragile eggs into one basket.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Oct 26, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
worth it much better than the 15 mil guaranteed they gave maybin. might as well give him one last shot next year your paying him
If the Maybin selection and our contract is the new standard of acceptable/unacceptable, we’re all in big, big trouble.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Oct 26, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So were the Colts dumb to pay Peyton Manning so much money. He got injured too! Players get injured. It happens. It’s an accepted risk. Nobody needs to be “blamed” or should they be. Time to move on with the healthy players we have. I hope Merriman has a full recovery and comes back strong next season!
Well, there’s a pretty big difference here, being that Merriman has been plagued by injury problems over the past few seasons. If his injury were unrelated I would buy this argument, though it still wouldn’t have changed analysis from a risk/reward perspective, it would just make it unfair to hold the injury against the signing in a retrospective analysis. However, the injury is directly related to the prominent injury which plagued him before the signing, so it is very much relevant and that very much makes this comparison invalid. Note that I was and am still a fan of the signing, I just feel this reasoning is not relevant.
Worth every penny he’ll be getting this year when you combine results w/ the potential risk-reward. The $3m next season is where you can argue that the signing was, in hindsight or foresight, bad. It may give more incentive to bring him back next year, though, unless he will very clearly not be able to play. May as well have him around if you’re going to pay him. Maybe he only plays another 5 or so games but that’s better than nothing. He could end up playing a full season.
I have 0 issues with Merriman. I think he came in with a great attitude, extended that attitude out to his friends around the league, trained hard, and played hard. He brought a solid all-around game and drew lots of attention from blockers most weeks. I have 0 issues with his signing, whether weighing the risk-reward or from a purely hindsight point of view.
My 1 issue is the issue most reasonable people have, which is that the front office didn’t adequately address the position beyond Merriman. It could have been that they recklessly assumed Merriman would have filled the position. More realistically is that they had many positions to address, and addressed those deemed most needful/available, perhaps with Merriman’s presence to various theoretical degrees tempering their consideration of the position as a need. All in all I can’t be too upset about this, because they had so many positions to address.
Clearly the position of outside linebacker and abstract of pass rusher are things they will need to address this offseason, and would have had to even if Merriman played all season and slowly became more and more effective as a pass rusher. Heading into their 3rd offseason, they will have far fewer gaping holes to fill, which is impressive considering how many starters/top depth players they cut and how many glaring issues existed even before those cuts.
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