Examining the New-Look Buffalo Bills Offensive Line
by Brian Galliford on Nov 15, 2011 11:30 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintYesterday, Buffalo Bills center Eric Wood confirmed that he'd torn his ACL in the Bills' embarrassing Week 10 loss to the Dallas Cowboys. That's bad news for an offensive line that was already a patchwork unit for the last several weeks. Here's what the depth chart looks like moving forward.
Left Tackle: Demetrius Bell is still the nominal starter, even though he's missed five straight games with a shoulder injury. Until he can play again, rookie Chris Hairston looks primed to be the starter.
Left Guard: Chad Rinehart is the new starter, and the player that receives a direct promotion due to Wood's injury, even though Wood plays center. Rinehart will be backed up by Colin Brown.
Center: Andy Levitre will slide from left guard to left tackle to center; when was the last time an offensive lineman started three different positions in one season?
Right Guard: Kraig Urbik will remain the starter at right guard, and will also likely become the primary backup to Levitre in the pivot, as well. Urbik, like Rinehart, will be backed up by Brown.
Right Tackle: Erik Pears has been the only mainstay for the Bills up front this season, and he'll continue to start at right tackle. Pears could also double as the third-team left tackle if Levitre's staying in the pivot. Sam Young backs up Pears.
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Levitre deserves major props
He has bounced all over the place and so far has held his own. Sure, he wasn’t dominating at LT but he was more than adequate. The fact that he has the confidence of the coaching staff to now fill in at center speaks volumes.
He’s been a savior thus far.
by Morningw00d on Nov 15, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
2nd and 3rd that.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Nov 15, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Jerry Ostroski
in 1999 was our utility lineman. Probably the best guy on that line not named Ruben Brown. I know Ostroski ended the year at center, but I remember him playing at least one other position, right guard. I believe I remember him playing either left tackle or right tackle in addition during that year, though I can’t prove it.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Still looks good
I’m getting to think Levitre could play about anywhere – and do it well. If there were an NFL Best All Around Lineman, he’d be the only guy on the ballot.
Rinehart had done well so far and no reason to believe Bell/Hairston will suddenly go bad on us. Still looks like a pretty solid line to me.
by zipper on Nov 15, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Probably somebody wandering about, but if there is, would he be better than Levitre? Doubtful, otherwise he’d be employed.
O'hara would be an upgrade
and allow Levitre to move back to guard. Doubt the Bills pursue him though.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
rec'd
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Mentioned this in another post
Yes a very good one in fact, Shaun O’Hara former starting center for the Giants. They got rid of him because they wanted to get younger on the line but he was still playing at a very high level when he was released. He’d be a good pickup for the rest of the year but I doubt it happens.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
I know we’ve debated this to death, and I’m sorry to bring it up again, but I really miss Hang. I was unhappy when they let him go before, and I’m even moreso now. I think he would have provided very solid depth and we could have left Levitre at LG.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Nov 15, 2011 1:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
yikes!
who gives a crap about Hang – he couldn’t handle 3-4 NT and Nix said just that – he said he didn’t think he could handle the job. Nix wants our o-line to get bigger and not keep guys like Hang around.
by J2 on Nov 15, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I will remember that when Miami puts pressure on Fitz all day on Sunday.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
and you think that Hang will change that? Have you ever seen Soliai play? Seems not!
there are plenty of things to complain about – a backup mediocre center is not one of them
by J2 on Nov 15, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
the question you should be asking is why isn’t Urbik starting at C – not why mediocre Hangartner is on the roster.
The most likely answer is continuity on the left side – but Urbik at least has the beef to play against Wilfork, Soliai and Pouha and he’s played center before. Not Geoff Hangartner who clearly could not deal with those 3-4 NT’s and i’m not buying Levitre’s ability to play against them either because they’re basically the same size.
by J2 on Nov 15, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
If Urbik were at C, who would step in at RG? That’s my problem…we have no depth, and Hang, even though he’s “mediocre” is better than the deepest members of the OL depth chart.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Rhinehart would then Brown.
and Hang isn’t better than Rhinehart and we haven’t seen Brown.
seriously – this is a dead none issue and I can’t believe that you have such an issue with it – it’s odd
by J2 on Nov 15, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s odd to miss a good depth player (who I don’t agree isn’t as good as Rhinehart) at a position where we’re seeing a serious lack of depth. Many people on this site have been calling out personnel decisions that Nix has made long before he let go of Hang, and that’s okay, but this isn’t?
All I was doing was calling attention to a decision I disagreed with. I don’t have “such an issue” with it, and it certainly doesn’t make me think any less of Nix. I just happen to miss the depth he could have given our OL.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
it’s odd because he isn’t “good depth” – he can’t handle those NT’s so what good is he?
I don’t understand your perspective because on the football field Hangartner cannot pull his weight against 3-4 NT’s. That’s why I find it odd and that’s why I find it odd that Levitre is going to C and not Urbik because Levitre is too small to take on Soliai and will get pounded on Sunday as a result.
I don’t disagree with the personnel decision from Nix’s standpoint because he’s right – I disagree with Chan’s personnel decision on this one because Levitre, IMO, is going to get torn up by Soliai
by J2 on Nov 15, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
We’re arguing whether Hang is better depth than what we have. He was a capable enough center for a season and a half or so before, which leads me to believe that he is. You think he’s not, that’s fine. But that’s where we’re going to stay, I am sure.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I'm with Stetz on this one
Though I agree that Hangartner wasn’t good enough to be kept as our starting center, he certainly would have done just as good of a job at guard as Rinehart is doing and the line’s depth would have been solid instead of shaky. Also, Eric Wood and Demetrius Bell are only six pounds larger than Hang, while Andy Levitre is smaller. Let’s remember the real reason Hang got cut wasn’t so much that he wasn’t a huge human being, it was that he had a salary issue which complicated the greater roster issue enough to justify letting him go because of his perceived lack of size.
I wonder if we’d played Geoff at guard more, like the Panthers both did and are now, he wouldn’t have to take on the mammoth nose tackles as a primary responsibility. It was the salary that forced Chix’s hand on that one.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
it was that he had a salary issue which complicated the greater roster issue enough to justify letting him go because of his perceived lack of size.
Buddy Nix said that Geoff couldn’t handle 3-4 NT’s. Straight from the horses mouth – after reading much of Ron from NM’s write ups it seemed obvious
by J2 on Nov 15, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
What was he going to say?
That his previous starting center wasn’t worth the money he was making?
Hang could have been moved to guard, or kept as a backup. He was good enough to make the team over Colin Brown, for crying out loud. It wasn’t false that Hang couldn’t take on the 3-4 NTs like a starting center, but it also wasn’t the reason he was cut loose from the team.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Your right, it wasn't the reason he was cut.
He was cut because of the TYPE of Centre/Guard that he is. That is to say a smaller, more agile lineman that relies more on zone blocking pickups on the line than he does the smash them up and knock ’em down style that our line currently plays.
He was cut because he didn’t fit at all with the scheme that we are currently running on our O-Line. The fact that he can’t block a NT worth a damn was just added fuel to the fire.
The Buffalo Bills, finding new and exciting ways to lose since January 8th, 2000.
by CanadianBillsFan on Nov 16, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn’t quite add up, because like I said, Hang is bigger than Levitre (who gets bull rushed into the backfield all the time, certainly more than Hang did) and barely smaller than Wood and Bell, two main proponents of the physical O line strategy. Hang fits the mold just as well. And he wasn’t crappy vs. nose tackles . . . remember Fowler and Preston? Those scrubs deserve the term “couldn’t block worth a damn”. Hang wasn’t dominating, but he held his own against some beasts for most of the season.
Instead, Colin Brown is now our starting right guard. That’s disconcerting.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Instead, Colin Brown is now our starting right guard. That’s disconcerting.
Well that part I’ll agree 100% on.
The Buffalo Bills, finding new and exciting ways to lose since January 8th, 2000.
by CanadianBillsFan on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Instead, Colin Brown is now our starting right guard. That’s disconcerting.
Which brings us back to my original point…I miss Hang :)
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Because I have seen Hang play.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
here’s some fun reading for ya:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/03/02/pass-blocking-productivity-part-2/
We haven’t touched on the center position, in part because the correlation isn’t quite as strong as what you would see with guards and tackles. That said, it’s noticeable that you see a center like Geoff Hangartner, who played on a Buffalo line generally regarded as one of the worst in the league, finish at the bottom of the center rankings
Bottom ten centers
Name Team PBP
Geoff Hangartner Buffalo Bills 3.52
Jeff Faine Tampa Bay Buccanneers 3.5
Justin Hartwig Pittsburgh Steelers 3.35
Brad Meester Jacksonville Jaguars 2.99
Samson Satele Oakland Raiders 2.98
Lyle Sendlein Arizona Cardinals 2.55
Kyle Cook Cincinnati Bengals 2.36
Alex Mack Cleveland Browns 2.19
Dan Koppen New England Patriots 2.15
Kevin Mawae Tennessee Titans 2.13
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/04/09/2009-offensive-line-rankings-%E2%80%94-23-32/
Worst of the bunch was probably Hangartner, who played every snap and ended up as the worst center in the NFL for pass protection after giving up three sacks, two hits and 16 hurries. This is a huge amount for a guy with little one-on-one responsibility
here’s some more good Hangartner articles:
4 Geoff Hangartner 1270 43 2.72
Geoff ranks as the 4th worst center over the past 3 years – yup – I guess that’s good backup material
All you’re saying is that, when compared to other starting centers in the league, he’s not very good. That much I would agree with. But he would be our backup C, or maybe evening 3rd string C and backup LG or something. To have a 3rd stringer ranked 10th from the bottom in blocking ability would be fine by me.
I haven’t seen Brown play, but I suspect that he would not even be ranked that high. I’d love to be wrong, but at least I know what we’re getting in Hang.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
but you’re only looking at part of it – a large reason is because he cannot handle 3-4 NT’s.
why on earth would we want one of the worst players in the league to even be a backup who would be completely useless against our competition?
he doesn’t match-up well at all which is why he went to the Panthers and continues to suck it up there.
by J2 on Nov 17, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m looking at the part that matters to me…I know what we get with Hang, and I know what Gailey can do with him. I think he could have provided depth, better than what we have on the team right now, even against the NTs we face in the division.
I don’t understand why you care about this so much, though. All I said was I think we could use Hang right now, with so many injuries. You don’t, that’s fair. I know he wasn’t a good starter (even though when he was actually on the starting OL we used to say how much we appreciated a veteran presence at C). But we aren’t talking about him being a starter.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I don’t understand why you care about this so much
because I think you’re 100% wrong that’s why and I think Hangartner is a crappy offensive linemen which history shows from multiple outlets.
I want you to know the real Hangartner so when you criticize Buddy about moves you don’t lump Hang in because Hang is crappy or sucky at his job
by J2 on Nov 17, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe it’s better to simply make your case and settle for agreeing to disagree, particularly when the other user twice asserts that’s where the conversation is going. Your argument is well constructed, but it’s not convincing, and it certainly doesn’t contain “known” data from which to educate the poor, uninformed posters that disagree with you.
After watching Hang over the last few years, and reading Ron’s reports, our center position improved dramatically with Hangartner’s play. It wasn’t dominant in a Nick Mangold sense. There were good games and bad games. But the interior line played well enough to be a competent starting group over the time that Hang was playing center. Now there are some numbers that assert a different story. I don’t know. All I know is what I saw and read, which was enough to convince me, along with a sizable amount of other Rumblers, that Hangartner could have stayed on and contributed.
I’ll even give you that Wood’s been a notably better center, but I won’t give you that he’s notably larger. I’ll give you that Hang could have been moved to a guard position, a backup position, or both. But to say that Colin Brown, an unknown, undrafted free agent who was very likely the last man to make the 53-man roster, was a better choice than the capable Hangartner to keep on the Bills roster for depth purposes,
…well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
…well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
that’s been the case for quite some time – but that doesn’t mean that I can’t continue to try and convince you guys is it?
I’ve seen his crappy play and thought he was crappy – folks over at PFF, Nix and plenty of others agree with that assessment. He literally brings nothing to the team because even as a backup if he’s forced into action he’s known to be horrible against our divisions 3-4 NTs. Why on Earth would we not want to change that?
by J2 on Nov 18, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not a staunch Nix supporter, but I have never voted “disapprove” on the polls either. There are plenty of moves of his I disagree with, and if I think this one is wrong then I will cite it. However, rest assured, it’s the least of my concerns with regard to Buddy Nix. The WR corps is the highest (which I’ve been saying since the Evans trade).
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Appreciate the update...
QQ : Does anyone know who’s on the practice squad now or where to find out?
"A deaf person can hear better than a ignorant person."- Unknown Comedian
This is going to end in tears...
THE +++++BUFFALO CRUSHERS ++++++. WHAGON BLASTERS ++++ ARE THE REAL DEAL WE ARE THE YING AND THE YANG . SO GET READY CAUSE NO ONE I MEAN NO ONE IS STOPIN THE WHAGON BLASTER BUYAAAAAAA - Abayarde
Is it too early to call Shaun O'Hara?
Because I don’t know about you, but I think that fitting O’Hara in at Centre and moving Levitre back to guard, where he should be, would do great things for this line as well as our running game.
The Buffalo Bills, finding new and exciting ways to lose since January 8th, 2000.
by CanadianBillsFan on Nov 16, 2011 1:26 AM EST reply actions
God help us.
1964 and 1965 League Champions, and don't you forget it!
Favorite Fitzpatrick Related Press: "Somehow turned graduating from Harvard and excelling in his career into a surprising succes story" The Onion
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