A Discussion On The Buffalo Bills' Defensive Coordinator
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 11:15 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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Among the many unpopular figures in the Buffalo Bills organization at the moment, none has been the recipient of more fan vitriol than defensive coordinator George Edwards. The reasons should be obvious: Buffalo's defense has largely been terrible this season, and the team has an experienced defensive play-caller in Dave Wannstedt already on the coaching staff.
Despite daily calls for Edwards' firing from the fan base, Bills fans need to come to grips with the fact that it's not going to happen for a while - if at all.
First and foremost, despite the general sentiment of the team right now, the Bills are still only a game out of the Wild Card spot in the AFC. NFL teams don't make drastic changes with coordinators or play-callers when they're fighting for the playoffs - and if you don't think firing a guy in favor of another already on the coaching staff is a big deal, think back to the Turk Schonert-for-Alex Van Pelt swap at offensive coordinator in 2009. It doesn't work.
That's the only logical reason, however, for keeping Edwards in his coordinator post for the remainder of the season. Fan demands for his proverbial head need to die down until the season is over, but the vitriol is well-deserved, even if Edwards still has a pretty bare cupboard from a talent perspective. As Gailey (and Buddy Nix) have repeatedly said: the NFL is a business of production, and Edwards' defenses have not produced. They've allowed other teams to produce.
There's also evidence that, in a vacuum, Gailey might prefer Wannstedt to Edwards.
Buffalo named Gailey to the head coach position on January 19, 2010. One of the very last hires he made in filling out his coaching staff was Edwards, who was announced as the new defensive coordinator on February 4 - a full 16 days after Gailey's hiring. Some hirings can take that long after the hiring of the head coach, but it's not typical for coordinators. In fact, Gailey had most of his defensive staff filled out - including a few holdovers from Dick Jauron's final coaching staff - before plopping Edwards in at coordinator.
Yes, Edwards had just left the Miami Dolphins to accept a position as co-defensive coordinator with the Florida Gators. Yes, the delay in Edwards' hiring in Buffalo may have been purely a matter of logistics in getting that matter resolved. It's also possible that Gailey struck out on a few higher candidates and landed on a guy that spent two years as his linebackers coach with the Dallas Cowboys in 1998 and '99. That's obviously speculation on our part, but it doesn't strike us as a huge stretch at all.
Gailey's experience working with Wannstedt is slightly deeper in meaning, as he was Wannstedt's offensive coordinator for two years in Miami (Edwards was not on that coaching staff, by the way). The relationship between a head coach and a coordinator is far closer than that of a coordinator and a linebackers coach. Now, with Wannstedt also holding the title of Assistant Head Coach on Gailey's staff, there's more history between those two than between Gailey and Edwards.
Still, this thing can't be examined in a vacuum. If this were still January of 2010 and both Wannstedt and Edwards were on the market and interested in the coordinator gig, obviously the smart money would be on Wannstedt. But now Edwards has nearly two full years of system-installation under Gailey, and while Wannstedt has been a part of that this year, continuity may win out for Gailey. Continuity has been a big rallying cry for Buffalo's organization of late - it's a big reason why Jauron was retained for a fourth year in 2009 - and it may win out in this debate.
We know where Bills fans stand on the topic of whether or not Edwards should be fired. That's not what we're interested in discussing today. Our question for you, Bills fans: can anyone make a convincing argument that it makes sense to fire him now? And, more importantly, do you think Gailey has the stones to make a coordinator switch after the season between two guys he's known, worked with, and trusts?
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I think turk schonert to alex van pelt is a bad example. I do not kow of a good coordinator example but jason garret for wade phillips and perry fewel for dick jauron show how changing a guy for the right person can have positive effect. We replaced bad with bad I wonder how that worked out thats right it did not. You do not fire someone unless you have someone better to replace him at the current moment. The bills have an obviously better person for the defensive coordinator job in dave wannstedt. Lots of the guys gailey brought in had lots of experience at diffrent levels. They all had reputations as being good teachers and had the experience arcross all levels some of even being head coaches at one point. I think george edwards does not fit the experienced part that this coaching staff has, and he does not see to fit in terms of being a good teacher imo. With all that said I do not know if Dave wants to be a coordinator. I do not see gailey having the balls to fire edwards.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
I do not kow of a good coordinator example but jason garret for wade phillips and perry fewel for dick jauron show how changing a guy for the right person can have positive effect.
That’s kind of the point I’m trying to make: you can do it with a head coach, because in most cases, the head coach is just a figurehead position on game days. Changing play-callers and systems mid-season doesn’t work. Changing who talks to the team in the locker room, runs practices and throws challenge flags isn’t quite as impactful.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
couldnt agree less
You seem to have devalued and demoted the NFL head coach to some kind of figure head free-loader with this comment. Perhaps u see them as nothing more than a babysitter. I disagree.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Chans gameday responsibility exceeds those described, and I don’t see the point in separating week long prep and gameday responsibility in the first place. Perhaps you can clarify?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 12:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You’re disagreeing with an assumption you’re making about me. I never meant to de-value the importance of the head coach. Obviously, they’re important.
What I’m saying is that in changing the head coach in-season to a coordinator, in most cases you’re getting a cultural, day-to-day change in the way practices are run. Schemes stay the same. That can provide a jolt for a team. That wouldn’t work, in my opinion, with a coach like Gailey or Mike Shanahan, who call their own plays.
Changing defensive coordinators would be akin to changing the play-caller. That’s it. The culture wouldn’t change, the scheme wouldn’t change (immediately), and that’s without mentioning that the players are all the same. I don’t see what purpose it serves in-season, other than fan catharsis, which plays an extremely minimal role in organizational decisions.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Curious. Does Belichick call his own plays? He was the defensive genius for many years. As the HC of the Patriots, is he simply a figurehead?
If so, then he’s the single most important figurehead the NFL employs. Take him out and you take New England’s soul away.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Take Tom Brady away from Bill Belichick, and you’ve got a guy fired by the Browns. And yeah, he’s a fantastic coach. The NFL likes to make people into legends, but everything is so contingent on everything else. It’s a team sport. Things like continuity, culture, etc. really matter.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
amen to this
Though I have to point out that they went 11 and 5 will Matt cassel, which dilutes your first statement some, but fully reinforces the rest.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ugh
With not will. Stupid auto-correct.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 1:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They went 11-5 with Matt Cassel against a schedule featuring the AFC West and NFC West – the two crappiest divisions by far in 2008, and the sole reason that New England even contended for the playoffs. Remember: Buffalo was 7-3 out of the division that year, too.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
i am just saying
you said “take away tom brady” which effectively is what happened. that’s all. an argument could be made that with the talent that team had for that half decade, could have been achieved without Brady, if they had even a serviceable signaler that didn’t COST them games, a la Alex Smith this year. He isn’t playing AMAZING football, but he isn’t losing them games, and they are getting it done.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
He’s so innovative for today’s NFL. Using guys to play both sides of the ball, like Edelman the other night. I still think Tom Brady and Belichick complement one another. Neither is as dominant without the others’ success in place.
But back to my question: Does Billy B call his own plays or is he simply Frank Oz?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
idk
DEXTER McCLUSTER made him look like a rookie WR running down a kick returner on special teams, and poorly. I wouldn’t want Edelman on my defense. This is less “innovative” and more “desperation” in my opinion. Their backfield is to’ up right now.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I can appreciate you may not have meant it that way, but it isn’t a stretch of the imagination to understand it that way. I agree wholeheartedly that an in season switch is futile; for all the points you make are correct- it serves no one to have a new DC come into the same ineffective system, roster, and culture as you say. You are again simply setting yourself and others for failure in this regard. I personally truly hated that we didn’t keep Fewell, as I am sure most, if not all, Buffalo fans probably agree. I can understand that he may not have been the right 3-4 guy(which nix and Chan obviously wanted), but with our roster, it should have been obvious it would take a few years to fully transition, and we might have seen a lot of creativity on Perry’s part. I don’t disagree wholly with your point, even at all. the SVP/schonert (/fairchild could be lumped in here too in a way) statement just seemed like a generalization that I didn’t follow, or agree with in the slightest.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 12:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Way off base
If you want an example of how big an impact a Head Coach can make on the sidelines on Game Day just look at the New Orleans Saints. I think there is significantly more impact from the head coach on Sundays than you’re giving them credit for.
Flip the playoff argument
We are only a game out of the wildcard with a broken defense. Imagine if we got our act together on that side of the ball. If we continue our collapse without making changes then it will be an even bigger failure than trying and not succeding.
I prayed for patience and I'm STILL waiting for an answer
by Storeybox on Nov 22, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
They’d still need to figure out how to fix the offense. It’s now broken and because of it, the defensive woes are really showing. Take away the turnovers and there’s little magic to be found at OBD.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Storeybox, I agree with you. Continuity of bad leads to worse.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Nov 22, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see how it makes sense now. I can’t come up with an example that worked positively. I dont see what it accomplishes in mid-season, as Wannstedt is on staff already. Unless Wannstedt is sitting around twiddling his thumbs saying I would do this WAY differently (which for some reason I doubt), might as well wait.
Gailey may not have the choice. Buffalo has recently spouted continuity, but we’ve had no shortage of assistant decisions being made from higher up — especially when things are not going well.
Isn’t Wannstedt a traditional 4-3 guy? Do we think this matters in his ability to continue build a defense that for other reasons we want to be a 3-4 (talent evaluation etc.). I think Gailey can make the switch, but I don’t know what it means about the defense going forward. Throw money at a young buck, I’d even consider an elite college guy like Kirby Smart.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
Though I know it will likely never happen
I still hold onto the fantastical dream of Cowher coming in as our DC….maybe if we beg and grovel at his feet….
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 11:46 AM EST reply actions
I fear he makes a return to coaching with the Dolphins.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
To say that firing a coach for another guy already on the staff doesnt work is just wrong. Ask the raider fanbase if they want tom cable back, because I guarantee there are an awful lot of hue Jackson fans. I think I might even be one of them. Using that one terrible example doesnt exactly mean that all coaches promoted from within turn out to be failures.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 12:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
To say that firing a coach for another guy already on the staff doesnt work is just wrong.
Good thing I didn’t say that, then. I said firing a guy in-season doesn’t work, and you can refer to my delineation between head coaches and coordinators in an above comment.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
actually, i read this
if you don’t think firing a guy in favor of another already on the coaching staff is a big deal, think back to the Turk Schonert-for-Alex Van Pelt swap at offensive coordinator in 2009. it just doesn’t work. Which makes no mention of in season or otherwise. Not does it refer to coaches vs coordinators. Perhaps I misunderstood this statement. Seems pretty matter of fact, as well as inaccurate, at least to me.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You’re right. I thought I’d said in-season; it’s definitely what I meant. My bad.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
werd
Say what you mean then! Jeez! ;) no worries Brian. It just seemed similar to the “figurehead” comment to me, in that it is easy to misinterpret and get a whole different idea of what the point you were trying to convey was.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You make an excellent point regarding continuity, but continuing to be completely ineffective on defense probably should be disregarded for the sake of continuity, especially in this league. Should Chan wait too long, he won’t need to fire Edwards, because he and the entire rest of his staff will be done for. As far as DW… Should we miss the playoffs and we have other teams’ dcs as options, we can keep Dave in his current role, which seems to be his preference, from what I have read and heard. This decision certainly doesn’t need to be made quite yet, but should we be out of the wildcard race in the next couple to few weeks… May as well get the ducks in a row, so to speak. 2 full seasons is certainly long enough to see that Edwards isn’t a good fit.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s 50-50 for me with Edwards. The Bills talent is very thin on defense. He was handed the 3-4 scheme without proper players. The Bills best pass rusher, Aaron Schobel, was given an ultimatum… convert to OLB or bye-bye. Schobel, who was on the fence about returning, made the easy decision. Nix 2010 draft choices have journeyman potential at best.
On the other hand, watching the DB’s run around like chickens with their heads cut off last week was disturbing. OK, Senator Wilson was out, but someone else has to capable of filling in. Whitner probably could have done that, but he’s long gone and having the season of his life on the left coast.
Firing Edwards now would be futile. Besides, the way things are going, there’s likely to be another house cleaning rebuild coming in 2012 anyway.
Reverse stones
I don’t think it will take stones to dump Edwards at the end of the season if things don’t turn around. It will take stones to keep him. It may not be Edwards’ fault the way the D has been performing, but he has to know that he’s on a hot seat. Hard not to.
I said it the other day and i'll say it again
He has very little talent to work with. The defense’s issues are as much on Buddy Nix as they are on Edwards and his crew. I’ll give this team credit for Dareus (great 1st round pick), Williams (great later-round steal), Barnett (great FA signing), and George Wilson (wise move to keep him around). Outside of that, i’m really struggling to figure out what the heck they’re thinking with anything regarding the defense.
Canning Edwards solves nothing. In fact, it makes it worse.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
In season – no – after season I’m hoping Whaley can coerce a guy like John Mitchell to come over and run that unit.
I think it’d be odd if Wannstedt took d-coordinator duties because he’s a 4-3 coach and Nix has been pretty straight forward with his only drafting for a 3-4 so I wouldn’t think that would happen – it would be a conflict in the FO and that doesn’t help anything. I would assume that Wannstedt would like to stay as assistant HC/defensive assistant and bring a different 3-4 coach in like Mitchell.
I don't think Nix is opposed to drafting for a 4-3
I think it’d be odd if Wannstedt took d-coordinator duties because he’s a 4-3 coach and Nix has been pretty straight forward with his only drafting for a 3-4 so I wouldn’t think that would happen
I think he has just talked about drafting for a 3-4 since that is what Gailey wanted to run. If our GM is influencing what schemes we run then that is a very troubling sign.
As much as I hate saying it, I think we should switch back to a 4-3 in the off-season. We have no edge-rusher that will be left out of position and our NT would be better suited at NT in a 4-3 in my opinion. Let him get upfield more often, and let Kyle go back to being the 3 tech DT that he’s best suited for. Shep could prob play SLB very well and Moats my not be undersized at WLB as he is at JLB right now.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
I think he has just talked about drafting for a 3-4 since that is what Gailey wanted to run. If our GM is influencing what schemes we run then that is a very troubling sign.
Nix said they were going to run a 3-4 before Gailey was hired
by J2 on Nov 22, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
yup
sure did.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I don't recall that myself, but I will look up his opening presser again.
I remember Gailey saying in his intro presser that he wanted a 3-4 because he knew how tough they were to scheme for.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
I listened to his opening presser again and Nix never commented about what type of defense he wanted.
Here’s the link for the presser if your interested. http://audio.wgr550.com/a/28155136/buddy-nix-press-conference.htm
Gailey was hired 19 days after Nix, so I suppose he may have said something in that regard, but I cannot find it.
In fact, this article seems contrary to your assertion.
I feel confident that if Wannstedt took the coordinator job he would be able to get the players he needed to run his scheme. Since so may teams have gone to the 3-4 I wouldn’t be opposed to going back to the 4-3 since there will be less competion for those 4-3 DE’s and, to a lesser extent, the LB’s.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
In fact, this article seems contrary to your assertion.
no it doesn’t
this line:
have an idea of the direction we’d like to go, but I know one thing, I’m much more open to the 3-4 than I used to be because I know what a pain it is to go against it every week."
was because Nix told him in the interview process that they were going to scout and run a 3-4
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
Holy conjecture Batman
The head coach states he doesn’t know what type of D they will run when he’s hired and the GM never makes a statement about running a 3-4 before the coaches are hired…but all of that is irrelevant, right.
Perhaps Gailey’s remark is because he hadn’t been a HC in the NFL in over 10 at that point. What’s in vougue as far as schemes had changed significantly.
It’s obvious you have your beliefs on this matter regardless of evidence, so we will just wait to see what happens if a coordinator change is made in the off-season
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
nd the GM never makes a statement about running a 3-4 before the coaches are hired…but all of that is irrelevant, right.
well, if you read the correspondence, i’m not the only one who remembers that.
if you don’t believe me then fine – but i’m not making it up and i’m not hte only one who remembers it.
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
It’s obvious you have your beliefs on this matter regardless of evidence
geez – not the case at all. I just didn’t take the time to look it up – chilll pill bro
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2010/1/2/1230388/buffalo-bills-to-interview-ron
i’m having issues finding it too – but it wasn’t when Nix was hired but was during the interview process for head coach candidates. without looking at video it’ll be a pain in the butt!
but you can easily see that Nix was looking to install a 3-4 even by this article. I remember Buddy saying that, I remember that was a big reason why Cowher was looked at. I’m not making it up but if you think I am then that’s fine
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Drafting for a 3-4 is a lot more flexible for the team than drafting for a 4-3
Any 3-4 nose tackle can play DT in at 4-3. Not all 4-3 DT’s can play nose.
3-4 ends can play either strongside end or DT in a 4-3. 4-3 ends typically won’t be able to play as a 3-4 end, with some exceptions, like Israel Idonije.
3-4 OLB’s can usually put their hand down and play end in a 4-3. 4-3 ends typically struggle playing in space and in coverage as a 3-4 OLB.
3-4 ILB’s can play MLB in a 4-3. 4-3 MLB’s might be able to play in a 3-4, but it’s not universal. And there’s no spot for a smaller 4-3 WLB in a 3-4.
If Wannstadt took over this off-season and made the switch to a 4-3, it’s not that big a deal. Dareus and Williams play DT’s with Troup as a really solid reserve. Edwards and Carrington split reps at strongside end. Kelsay goes to weakside end. Sheppard goes to MLB with Barnett at WLB. The defense would need a strongside linebacker, and an upgrade over Kelsay. But we can say that now, so it’s not as if the issues are created by a scheme change.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Pass Rusher in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
But we can say that now, so it’s not as if the issues are created by a scheme change.
that I agree with – but Buddy said he will continue to draft for a 3-4. Maybe he’s changed that stance or maybe I should just listen to Bill Belichick when he says the difference is hyperbolized by the media.
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
It's mostly a fan and media thing
Defenses are becoming a lot like offenses, where there are very few true system teams. Green Bay is based on the west coast offense, but they run everything from all four offensive systems.
Aside from Pittsburgh, most teams are moving to hybrid defenses. I think most teams will become like Baltimore, which is nominally a 3-4, but they play 4-3 and 46 just as regularly.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Pass Rusher in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
argument for getting rid of Edwards
We were ran over by The Jets Offense who up until that moment was not very good at all.
The written in pen ‘W’ against the dolphins got rained on in a drubbing by an awful Miami Dolphins team.
Our defense couldnt stop a wet sock puppet.
5 – 11, I wish I could point out another win on our scedule but after last weekend forget it.
Some of the names people come up with for their kids start the kids out neck deep in social hell.
play out the season...see what happens
But I don’t see the D turning around. What a joke! Many of my fellow rumblers mention lack of talent and depth which I do understand. But seriously. We have been the worst team in the league the past 3 weeks. Any quality coach would be able to @ least make some sort of impact with what you have talent wise. A strong coaching staff would be able to achieve some sort of results regardless of talent/depth. We are not losing, we are getting absolutely destroyed. We can’t blitz, get to the QB or stop passes downfield. Keep Edwards for the rest of the year and re-evaluate in off-season. Do we even win another game?
by thunder_716 on Nov 22, 2011 12:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I’m confused as to why George Edwards gets the brunt of it for this atrocious defense. How much help has the 2010 draft class been in revamping the unit when they attempted to switch from a 4-3 to at least a hybrid 3-4? How much of a return has the team received from the recently extended Merriman, Kelsay, and Kyle Williams in 2011? Don’t get me wrong, Edwards might not be the guy; he hasn’t been able to get blood from a stone with this outfit and maybe somebody else can, but why is our gameplan always to get blood from a stone?
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
I will paraphrase Chan from yesterdays conference: these guys are all NFL players which means by default they are talented, and the coaches responsibility is to get them prepared. If you don’t appreciate the impact the right coaches (teachers) have… Take a look at the niners.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 1:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Take a look at the niners.
Not fair to compare the 49ers to us. Everyone knows a rebuid takes years.They aren’t as far along in their “rebuild”. They have a rookie head coach, a new staff, and were severely impacted by the lockout as a result. Conversely, we have a seasoned HC, the same staff, and thus, were less impacted by the lockout to get up and running this year.
P.S. this is sarcasm.
"I wish I could give you an explanation why we played effectively earlier in the year and why we're not playing effectively now," Really Chan? Really? That's reassuring.
though you are being facetious
the point you make about continuity coming off the lockout is valid. Had we been transitioning coaches on top of no off season and a weak roster… we might have been 0-8 (or worse) all over again. We definitely hit the ground running, and now that we have injuries (no excuse) and inexperienced roster (they’re still NFL plalyers) and a potential lack of fight, or character (i don’t agree but so many people are saying this, i will just go with the flow) we are just on a downward spiral, that isn’t exactly easily corrected given that not many of this things are fixable in the immediate.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
It shouldnt be sarcasm, the niners were much more loaded on D than the Bills. They didn’t need to clean out almost all the linebackers and half the d-line. They had been the victim of Singletary, that D vastly underperformed last year.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Can it really get any worse without Edwards?
by jj24 on Nov 22, 2011 12:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m not saying the guy has to go right now, but – John Beck excluded – our defense is giving up 30 pts per game over the last 8(3 wins/5 losses).
Sure the offense sucks now, but the defense was horrible all along. They were bad last year, too.
Our team is talent poor, of course, but there’s been no semblance of direction for us to head in.
The defense is broken and needs to be fixed. Even if the numbers say that the Bills are in the hunt, getting into the playoffs looks to be a longshot now. Gailey, Nix, Edwards and everyone else knows that this defense can’t stop a nosebleed, and it will just get harder on the off chance they do make it in the playoffs.
Making the switch now, lets the organization and the fans know that something is wrong and there are intentions on fixing it. It also gives the Bills a head start on getting used to play calls and coaching from someone else. Steps need to be taken in order to show good faith the the fanbase and players.
I don’t want the current form of the team anywhere near playoff contention. It’s an ugly unit in nearly every phase of the game. Moorman is punting like his life depends on it, and Fred appears to be the offense’s leader, but everything else about the team needs an adjustment.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t go that far. The offense is a WR and an OL away from being an above avg Offense.
The D is where everything needs to be fixed. Drastic changes need to be made. Such as firing Edwards, trading Meatball, and making a splash in FA getting a proper CB and OLB
Haven’t they spent the bulk of two drafts building the defense? If they need a complete overhaul, then I think they need to first overhaul the people in charge. Their drafts are not good. Not at all.
I think the offense needs major improvements. They were the cute popular girl when teams forgot who to defend a college offense. Now after that situation has been rectified, they lack players across the offense who transition well into any other type of scheme. It’s a tired drum I beat, but I think without Fred Jackson this team is fighting the Colts for that kid out in California.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Dareus, Sheppard, Moats and Carrington have worked out well. It was hitching our wagon to a DT that isnt suitable for the preferred defense and a dried out former all-pro that killed this defense. Not to mention a DC who seems to be in over his head.
A pass rusher and a good cornerback are the two biggest needs for this team. Anybody but Drayton Florence playing CB against the Giants and the Bills win that game. And any pressure whatsoever on Andy Dalton in his 4th game and we are looking at 7-3.
And relying on just two drafts to overhaul both sides of the ball is a bit ambitious if you ask me. My view on the new regime was to give Gailey and especially Nix 3 years of drafts in order to see some solid improvements on both sides of the ball.
What happens if that Wr or OL gets hurt. Then we’re right back where we were on offense. We need a lot more quality depth on both sides of the ball, offense included.
Using health as an example doesnt help your point. I actually agree that depth is required. However, with said WR and OL players not hurt depth will be formed by the current players. A new #2 receiver would send the current 2-5 back a string therefore providing depth. And another OL would be for depth purposes. I actually think our line isn’t terrible. But that they need another solid depth player in order to make injuries seemless.
Your faith that our reserves at WR and OL are good enough to provide quality depth on an above average offense doesn’t help your point, in my eyes.
I wanted to believe Rooosevelt and Jones could get it done, but they sure haven’t yet. Both players have gotten more than 25% of their yards this season from one catch, respectively. Without a premiere QB these guys aren’t going to light up much. Nelson is good but poses no deep threat, and Parrish is “injury guaranteed.” Marcus Easley has more important things to worry about than football, and Martin is only a special teamer. Where is the depth? We’ll see what Aiken has.
With the the OL, Pears has been a journeyman and is finally playing well. Hairston and Bell have potential – moreso Hairston – but having potential doesn’t mean it will be realized. Wood and Levitre have been solid when healthy and playing their best positions. With Urbik and Rhinehart we have OK players who are limited. We’ll take that, but could use an upgrade. I feel much more confortable only adding one quality player to this group, but I feel one of the current guys(Pears, Hairston, Urbik) may be due for a tough year next year.
we have no chance at the playoffs!
We need to accept this. Plan for 2012.
by thunder_716 on Nov 22, 2011 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Bills have a Defensive coordinator?
by billskk69 on Nov 22, 2011 1:28 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Where’s the “like” button for this comment? :-)
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 1:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s called a “rec” here. Click “actions.” :)
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get that option when viewing this site from my phone.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, me either
i have to wait to be on the pc, and go back through threads to throw the Rumbler’s their deserved props.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
yup
and this one IS rec worthy hahaha.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
This question works if you replace “defensive” with “offensive” too
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Bills’ defense hasn’t just allowed other teams to produce, they’ve allowed them to be prolific. Will I be able to present an argument to you, Chan Gailey, or Buddy Nix as to why Edwards should be fired today? Probably not. But at the end of this season, we are going to sadly look back and lament, “If only the defense could have kept us in a few of those games. Why did the defense continue to stick to things that clearly didn’t work?” At this point, my biggest fear is that they will claim that Edwards is part of the rebuilding process and retain him for yet another disastrous season.
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” — attributed to Albert Einstein.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 1:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
In case you'd all like to feel better about the Bills (maybe)
I suggest you head over to Stampede Blue. It’s an interesting island out there. I can’t think of a more difficult situation any team could be in should they win the Luck sweepstakes.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:51 PM EST reply actions
I don't know if I can make a complelling case for a midseason firing on a 5-5 team
Although I will say that our defense couldn’t get THAT much worse than it is now. Even when we were winning, our D was ranked at the bottom of the league. We are in the mid-20s now, which is still surprising to me, but the past 3 weeks combined with our D performance from earlier in the year (and our D performance under Edwards all last year) would be all I need to see to pull the trigger.
We are already getting 0 sacks, so that number wouldn’t get worse. We already struggle mightily getting off the field on 3rd downs, so that can’t get TOO much worse. We already have corners that whiff way too much on coverage, so that can’t get TOO much worse. We have gotten better at stopping the run. I wouldn’t want to take a step back in that.
No way a defense that makes Matt Moore look accomplished can get worse. Not to me, anyway.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Try
A defense that makes Blaine Gabbert look good. Luckily, we don’t have to worry about that one this year.
I guess the only case I can make is this:
You make moves in this league to improve and to win. You never maintain the status quo if the status quo ranks you among the worst.
We were asking RYAN FITZPATRICK and our self named “Goon Squad” to carry our Defense. This week 11 outcome should be of little surprise to anyone.
If we want Fitz to be our Trent Dilfer, then we need to surround him with a D that he can have faith in, whenever he throws an INT.
not to worry
edwards is already history……
just letting the paint dry……
Shake things up a bit.
I say fire Edwards for the simple fact of shaking things up. Wannstedt knows the play calls and the schemes. Someone need to take a fall for how bad they have been. We can’t just say lack of talent. Even the JETS were able to get something out of Maybin. What that tells me is the Edwards does not know how to set the players he does have to succeed. Sometimes heads need to roll in order to wake up the rest of the organization. It’s a motivating tactic. If you can’t fire the head coach and you can’t fire the team you have to look at who is expendable and with Wannstedt in the wings the clear choice is Edwards. It shouldn’t matter that we are still in the hunt for the playoffs. Bottom line is our defense is awful. atrocious, embarrassing and has been for a long time and someone needs to answer for that. I don’t see how firing him could hurt. When you are the worst defense in the league there is only room to improve.
Even the JETS were able to get something out of Maybin.
That says less about Maybin and more about Rex. Even Rex almost got his 3rd string RB to sack the QB. Says all it should.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
not to mention the situations he is used in
this was more a way for Rex to belittle and bring out more questions of Gailey and Nix in the fan base than anything. Not to mention he has a personal connection with him since Rex’s kids went to school with him. Putting him in the ideal situations, he still has only produced moderately, at very best. we could have continued to invest in him, but there is no saying he would have been as good here, or that we couldn’t/can’t develop someone else who is better for our team. 220 is definitely too small for the defense we want to run. they can afford it on pass downs, as they have tons of large bodies and an excellent corner (or two) already on their roster.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
In the context it was written that was my exact point. Edwards couldn’t find a way to use him and Rex did. Which points to Edwards ability to read a players abilities. Trust me I still think Maybin is a one dementional player, but Rex saw that one demention and used it.
i can agree with this
still doesn’t mean that we can’t find a better option long term.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
rELAX
its too early to throw the baby out with the bath water.
"Being a Bills Fan is a Tough Job for Tough People…" – Luther6
the baby is in with the bath water?
I’m still waiting to see it.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
argument for firing Edwards
It seems like mostly young guys will be playing for the rest of the season due to injuries to more experienced players. It would be much better if they could have some success for the rest of the year. With Wannstadt’s recent college experience, it seems like he could be a good influence on the young defensive players.
Coaching overhaul
Obviously Brian is right, you are still in the playoff hunt so now is not the time to start making changes but I think there will come a time this season when the Bills management will have to make a tough decision and release Edwards so Wannstadt can show what he can do. I don’t think either are the answer but it makes sense for Wannstadt to have a chance. Next season they need an experienced DC and a young OC to come in and help or this whole Chix experiment could just go down the same drain as the Williams, Mularkey & Jauron ones.
gailey doesn’t have the stones to fire edwards. but yes, it makes sense. because players are no longer responding to edwards, and it’s pretty obvious. coaches are held responsible for a team’s poor play and edwards is no exception. if the bills want to have a chance at salvaging the season then they need to fire edwards and promote dave. let the players know that losing, poor play will not be tolerated. let them know that people will be held accountable. firing edwards can serve as a notice to all.
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
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