On Criticism Of The Buffalo Bills' 2010 NFL Draft Class
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintOf the many points of contention for Buffalo Bills fans during the team's three-game slide, the alarming lack of impact supplied by the 2010 NFL Draft class has been a popular rote of late. In fact, Jerry Sullivan of The Buffalo News wrote an article about it this very morning.
The mailed-in, established opinion (fact, really) of this matter is that the class - which consists of C.J. Spiller, Torell Troup, Alex Carrington, Marcus Easley, Arthur Moats and Danny Batten, as well as three more prospects long since departed - has accomplished very little on the field. It's easy to point that out, and it's easy to discern that the group's lack of impact is hurting the team's re-building process. The 2011 draft class may come under similar fire next season.
What very few talking heads are pointing out, however, was the curious decision made by GM Buddy Nix to completely overhaul his scouting operation after the team had completed the first two drafts in his effort at re-building the talent of this depleted franchise.
Nix was made the GM on December 31, 2009. At that point in an annual scouting cycle, the bulk of college games have been played, and as such, the books have been written on the vast majority of prospects. Sure, there's film to watch and workouts and interviews to conduct, but that's all icing on the cake. The heavy lifting is done. It makes a degree of sense that Nix elected to keep his scouting operation intact through the 2010 NFL Draft, and if you're in a giving mood (Thanksgiving is in two days, after all), a case can easily be made that Nix's first draft class can be hung on the departing scouting staff.
Here's the issue, though: the scouting staff didn't depart. For whatever reason, these guys got an entire year after the end of the expiring scouting cycle. The only significant move Nix made in the spring of 2010 was to hire Doug Whaley from Pittsburgh as his Assistant GM; the move was generally applauded, but in terms of direct impact on the 2010 draft class, it likely meant very little.
Tom Modrak was allowed to stick around as the VP of College Scouting despite Whaley's presence after the 2010 draft process was complete. No one was sure exactly why, or precisely what his role would be considering his rather lofty title, but there he was. The scouts themselves didn't change. The 2011 season came and went, and while Whaley's influence was undoubtedly more significant - and while Nix had likely drilled his scouts to be looking for different things in players - sweeping changes were decidedly not made.
They have since been made. I'd hear arguments that the 2011 class can be attributed to Modrak and the unchanged scouting department, though that would be an exponentially looser argument, considering Nix was nearly a year and a half into his tenure as the GM. It's on him at that point - without good debate, if you ask me - if the 2011 class doesn't pan out. We'll never get an explanation as to why Modrak got that final year.
We'll never get an explanation as to why it took Nix two entire selection meetings to finally get rid of Modrak, promote Whaley, and re-structure his scouting operation under Tom Gibbons and Chuck Cook. These are changes that most General Managers make after the first draft class is imported, if not immediately. The obvious question - what took Nix so long? - won't be answered.
I'm very interested to see how well (or not well) the Bills draft starting with next April's 2012 NFL Draft. I'm interested because it will be the final product of the first full scouting cycle in which Nix is operating a front office system that has his true stamp on it. I'm also curious to see how long he can work that system before he's on the hot seat, knowing that he may have wasted two full draft classes in taking his time to get there. The NFL seems to move at a quicker pace than Nix does, and if he's not careful, his patience could cost him his job.
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the reason they are not contributing is quite simple
Your top end picks are expected to contribute more and quicker than later picks. Their first round pick was made at the position that currently belongs to the best player on the offense. Their second round pick was mad at the position that currently belongs to the best player on the defense. In fact, the two best players on the team period.
After that the mid and later round picks have contributed about what you’d expect from those points in the draft.
Alex Carrington has incredible athletic potential and is already a starter. He will be a very good player in my opinion.
Marcus Easley has been hit by the injury bug but was expected to be a starter this year.
Moats is a talented situational player which is pretty good for a fifth rounder.
And Danny Batten is finally getting on the field after injury issues.
I dont think structure was the problem. I think it was decision making by Buddy Nix and totally misjudging the talent he already had on the team. Which is more troubling because he was a here for a year with the scouting team before he was GM
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Nov 22, 2011 1:06 PM EST reply actions 18 recs
Wow.. Very well said Poz… Rec’d..
Wow.. Very well said Poz… Rec’d..
by Michael_Necci on Nov 22, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
I’ll add that the GM perhaps did not fully understand his coaches need and offensive philosophy. Spiller should be a real talent, but for whatever reason, he is not working in the Buffalo offense. At least I hope that is the case for Spiller’s sake and that we can slowly adjust to his skills (or perhaps he can adjust to Gailey). I would compare him to the way Miami took some time to figure our Reggie Bush. I hope we can find ways to use Spiller, otherwise…BIG fail in the draft. And we’ve had a year and half to get him involved. The clock is ticking. We cannot afford anymore first round duds. Thank goodness Dareus is the real deal. The funny thing about Spiller is that everyone who is an obsessed fan (like most of us on this site) really could see this issue coming. We simply did NOT need an RB…but NEEDED so many other things.
The glory days will return! You must Billieve!!
by OverdueBillsFan on Nov 22, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
It took Miami a month. The Bills are still dumbfounded with Spiller.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
there is one key difference
Bush can play, Spiller can’t.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the deal...
Your #1 draft pick in the first round should be automatically inserted into the starting lineup, period. In the Bills’ case, when we drafted Spiller – as much as most of hated it – he should have been the starter from the jump. It doesn’t matter how good Fred is, and that’s not to take anything away from Fred because I love him. If you’re not going to start him, then you waste a 1st rd pick. When Gailey decided to release Lynch and start Fred over Spiller Fred took that as an opportunity to prove himself to his new coaching staff, and that’s where Gailey and co. screwed up. You can’t get mad at Fred for doing what we always knew he could do. It’s kind of disheartening to know that this regime didn’t do some serious film review to evaluate our top talent. Fred clearly stands out and his production over the yrs is enough to let any coach know that you don’t need to draft a Spiller at #1, especially when you have a 2-headed monster in Fred/Lynch. Having those 2 alone would have made me as a coach say ok these guys are legit and we are going to implement a power, smash mouth style offense. I then would have immediately built up a tough, physical, mean and nasty O Line. I also would have kept Trent Edwards because he has all the tools and our new running game would take all the pressure off of him allowing him to rebuild confidence in himself. I also would have kept Lee and T.O. using Stevie and Nelson in 4 wide sets. I would have used Lee and T.O. to go deep cause they can blow the top off the defense and used Stevie and Nelson in those 4 wide sets to run underneath routes like shallow crosses,ends/outs, curls, etc. All of that would be available with play action due to the power run game.
On the defensive side of the ball, I would have kept the 4-3 in tact and drafted some mountains for DT’s. In the first rd of the 2010 draft I would have gone with either Bulaga or Jared Odrick to play next to big Kyle in the 4-3. Then, in the 2nd I would have drafted Mt. Cody just to clog the running lanes. Our interior D line would have been set for a long while. Odrick in on passing downs and Cody on running downs. Wow!
This years draft could have gone like this:
- would have been bpa no doubt. and that means AJ Green or Julio Jones. Because I would be in yr 2 of our power O, Jones would more than likely have been the pick due to his physicality in the run game as a blocker. Still playing the Tampa 2 zone, I would have done everything possible to get back in the 1st to grab the Prince.
surprisingly enough
I could see, and support this scenario. Hard to say how Trentative woulda/coulda done. but even Fitz would benefit from this sort of system, the very same thing I have hoped for us to swing towards, as we have shown that weather has an effect on our young team, and that we need to try some different things on offense at this point, for sure.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Fitz
still couldn’t succeed in this kind of offense. Why? Because he sucks from under center, play action and can’t throw the deep ball accurately with consistency. Just imagine for a min (as hard as it may be lol) how Trent would have been IF he never got that concussion, IF Jason Peters were resigned, IF he had a REAL HC or OC who knew a thing or 2 about developing young QB’s. Trent had a cannon on him, he stood tall in the pocket, was extremely accurate, he anticipated his receivers, and he threw one heck of a deep ball! I have a strong feeling that we as Bills fans haven’t seen or heard the last from Trent. All he needs is to be in the right system. Take Alex Smith for example. He was unproductive for years and the league wrote him off as a bust. Until…enter Harbaugh. And guess what kind of offensive system he implements…the same dag gum one I’ve been begging we ran! Now look at him. Harbaugh comes in, takes one good look at Frank Gore and that O line that he inherited and well the rest is history.
TE's wires got crossed meng.
Just how it is. I have thought about it before, and ultimately, I feel like Fitz is the perfect guy to have for a new QB to be around. He is a leader, he is smart, he works hard, he gets it, he just lacks in superior talent what he makes up for in all the other ways. Get a true strong are QB who can stand in there, and move in the pocket, and make all the throws, and this team has an added element, that Fitz will have helped to create. I am glad he is getting his shot, I won’t be surprised if he fails to lead us to the promise land as a starter, but he could be Jason Garrett to me as far as his long term abilities. He is in a great spot for himself, and I am still happy for him, even if he throws like he is pitching a baseball or like, hurling a javelin or something. He needs to correct his throwing plane, so that it isn’t all about his release. Like a bad drive in golf… he might top the ball and drill a worm burner, or he might pop one up, but every now and again he gets that sweet spot. He is so inconsistent, you just never know. but if he would fix his feet, and be a little more compacted, he would immediately be better.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Trent nvr got another starting gig for a reason. No team drafted Trent until the 3rd for a reason. Although there are exceptions, generally a successful team does not garbage search for a QB. If u want a good one, u r going to need to give up a top 10 pick. With luck, rg3, and Barkley all hopefully coming out this year, I’m hoping the bill’s do the right thing and trade up to take one… Fitz will groom him for the first year, but if we ever wanna be a contender were going to need a franchise-worthy QB leading this team
by flutieflakes007 on Nov 23, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you about Spiller/Fred
This is the point I am trying to make and you have summed it up really well. If Spiller was a decent pick or in any way showed that he could be the guy then he would be in the team. It is less about how well Fred is playing and more how disappointing Spiller has been that has led to this result.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
I could have made all the right moves too….if I could see how everything has panned out and then went back in time
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi
by thrills&bills on Nov 23, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
. I also would have kept Trent Edwards because he has all the tools and our new running game would take all the pressure off of him allowing him to rebuild confidence in himself
It’s Thanksgiving – April 1st doesn’t come for a few more months now
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
I wrote a response and was about to post it
Then I saw your post publish. You made every single point I was going to, and now I don’t even need to spellcheck or proofread mine. Thanks! =)
Double-rec’d!
Where u guys going to be send. You will not need prayers you do not need your soul. You will be in a place not even the. Undead. Walk.
-abayarde
by APhoenixDestiny on Nov 22, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
What he (APhoenixDestiny) said about what you (Poz) said.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Nov 22, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah :)
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Well said, and the voice of reason in this matter.
CJ Spiller – hated the pick initially, warmed up to it, still patient as he really hasn’t been given the RB duty full time yet.
Torell Troup – Needed a NT, didn’t really have any preference of one over the other and if CHIX thought this met value with our 2nd round pick, no problems. Sure it would have been nice to get Gronk, but we haven’t seen Troup play fully yet. Rookie year he was, as is stated, a rookie. Beyond that he was playing behind our best defender. This year, his opportunity came with an injury to Kyle Williams, but he was unlucky enough to have a back injury flare up early on. That likely wont go away until after the season. Just bad luck, but the kid appears hell-bent on improvement during the offseason so he should be cut a little slack.
Alex Carrington – this is the only pick I wish we could get back. It’s not because I don’t think he met value with our pick, or that he won’t be good, but because I was a huge Eric Decker fan (fan of Golden Gopher and Buffalo Bills football – SMH) and knew he would be good. It will be slightly less disappointing if Carrington becomes a full-time starter in the next year or two, as he has the potential to become.
Marcus Easley – the pick from this class that intrigues me the most. hella disappointed we didn’t get a chance to see him, but hoping he can get over his heart issue and maybe even come back to play football. Once again, a pick that doesn’t look bad because of a player failing, but rather a bit of bad luck (and a lot for said player).
Ed Wang – it’s the 5th round. it’s hit or miss. who cares. The rest can really be said for the rest of the draft. We have two LBs who have potential, but even if they don’t can fill ST rosters, which is about what you can expect for 6th rounders.
As for the 2011 Draft, IMO it looks much more solid right off the bat. Marcell Dareus has been very solid and will only get better with an off-season to train. Aaron Williams has looked solid in limited playing time. Kelvin Sheppard is already starting in the middle. Like Williams, Searcy has looked solid in limited playing time, and he has the benefit of not really being needed yet unless there is injury (such as George Wilson’s). Hairston has had is ups and downs but has been a nice surprise before he got hurt. The later rounds, excluding Jasper, produced guys that made the roster (which is something that couldn’t be said about 2010’s draft) with Johnny White, Chris White, Justin Rodgers.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I keep hearing over and over how those late-round picks get passes because they’re late-round picks. The fact of the matter is teams are only usually guaranteed 7 picks a year and that makes for 7 very important players. Ed Wang was picked in the 5th because they felt he was better than such and such player not drafted at all. In my opinion, if you’re drafted you damn well better pan out. There’s a reason they get the call at all. No player should be given a pass because they were a late-round addition.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
But you can’t indict a team or a GM for a 5th round pick. The expectation that every player pans out isn’t an attainable goal. If we are going to indict every GM that misses on picks, particuarly late ones, we are not going to be able to talk highly of anyone.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
It’s fine not to expect a 10 year vet or a long-term starter from a 5th rounder, but you should be able to find someone to contribute, and if he doesn’t contribute there should be a reasonable explanation as to why. In the case of Ed Wang, there is nothing to say that he was anything other than a complete waste of a very important commodity – a draft pick.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
exactly. nuf said. i don’t understand the point in writing these guys off already, when it is more than apparent that we haven’t determined who our playmakers are, can be, or might have the potential to be… even at all. recd.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll agree with everything except the Carrington part because I truly feel he is much like Mckelvin, smaller school but highly touted, shows flashes of brilliance, but A) he is not going to beat out Dareus and Edwards for starter when Williams returns, and B) he is not consistent in play…
Easley- I’m hit or miss with this guy, he had one good year at Uconn, plays to his size and speed, but he looks like just another WR to me, nothing bad but nothing great.
McKelvin was a first round pick… Carrington third. Not nearly the same commitment or expectation. Even if hes not the starter because we are deep at a position for now, is that a bad thing? All we do is complain about our lack of depth at positions. The fact Dareus is a stud shouldnt make Carrington worse.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
agree
i can’t fathom getting rid of ANYBODY added to the roster in the past 2 years that is still on the roster right now. We don’t even know anything about half of these guys. Basically all pro personnel and analysts agree that 3 years is the time frame to determine a players true ability. And that is assuming they are being utilized. We aren’t even close to that with ANY of the guys everyone is questioning with zero evidence to base their opinion on. Most of these guys have had less than a half a season of snaps, regardless of their tenure on our roster.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
This was a mess!!
The bills still have a hard time scouting there on team let alone some young guys in college. We didnt need cj spiller we need somethin with more value a TE, WR, OG, DE CHAN & BUDDY missed big time on this darft..
Because scouts are drafting guys for more than a year ahead of the draft. At least in 2010, there was very little you could do about Modrak given he’d done all the ground work on the draft. And in 2011, a lot of the work had been started by Modrak. Keeping him was good for continuity, but I highly doubt he was central to the process at that point. It made a lot of sense to transition to new scouts rather than drop the guy who’s been scouting the 2011 class for the past three years.
2010 is tough though, because I find it difficult to attribute injuries to bad drafting. Especially on guys who weren’t labelled “risks”. It’s noisy, you gotta judge whether its a problem of mis-evaluating talent or mis-evaluating a match to the team or just flukey. So far Spiller (someone Chan wanted…) looks like he was over-drafted, but a lot of these other guys just look like bad luck.
And how ridiculous is Jerry Sullivan harping on Carrington’s pass rish stats? Uh… whatever.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 1:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I would add that there is really only one time of year it makes sense to reorient the scouting department and thats immediately following the draft. So he either had to figure out precisely what he wanted to change in the first few months or he had to wait. This transition I actually thing is one of the best things about having a football man as a GM, we are putting bones in palce that were flushed over the course of the last ten years. But it is by far a long-term investment. Scouts take years to have an impact.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would like to point out
That Carrington has the potential to be a very, very good DE. I absolutely love seeing the flashes he’s made with limited play time and in only year two.
Give the man more PT, Coach!!!
Where u guys going to be send. You will not need prayers you do not need your soul. You will be in a place not even the. Undead. Walk.
-abayarde
by APhoenixDestiny on Nov 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seems like aside from Spiller, the injury bug has affected alot of 2010 draftees, ruined it for Troup (back), Easley (various), slowed the development of Batten. Moats gives you what you hope for from a 6th rounder,Carrington flashes potential, which is what I expect out of a second year player at that position. It all comes down to spiller, swing and a miss. 2011 looks more promising from top to bottom, I hold out hope next year we will see more from Dareus, Williams, Sheppard and Hairston, so far so good with them IMHO.
I think that the stench of Spillers production,
has made the 2010 class smell worse than it really is.
I wish somehow, someway, we could get the first 2 rounds back. Spiller and Troup have been absolute non-factors for the Bills thru their first 25 games.
Carrington is starting to become the darling of that class. He has shown incredible improvement and strength. Hes going to be a good 3-4 DE for years.
Moats is ok, but only in passing downs, situationally.
Batten, eh.
And Easily, hes a wash at this point. Could be a good player, but we might not ever know.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
spiller, swing and a miss.
Fine, so C.J. has an 0-1 count, but let’s wait and see before sending him back to the dugout, I’ve seen enough flashes of Spiller’s playmaking ability to believe that he can be a VERY valuable asset to a winning football team.
If indeed FJax misses the Jets game, the bright side is an full game workload for Spiller, let’s see what he can do over the course of a game when giving a starter’s amount playcalls.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Nov 22, 2011 1:27 PM EST reply actions
I’ve seen enough flashes of Spiller’s playmaking ability
When?
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
by bflo on Nov 22, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
first game, first carry, 12 yard run
and then…. we stopped using him altogether as a running back. heaven forbid we use more than one guy at a position, or even use our STARTER at the position. 20 carries in 2 games? What is that? weak i tell ya, just plain weeeeeaaaaaaaaaak.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
or that might have been week 2
when he averaged 16 yards per carry. I don’t recall. granted it was on five touches, but heck, that is what we give Freddy each weak, oh, i mean week.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
How about when he has stuffed on 2 or 3 straight plays from the 1 this past week.
And pretty much let up, thinking he was going to score with ease, and then got POPPED and thrown backwards?
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
Was it once? Could have sworn he got stuffed at least twice at the goalline.
Either way. He let up and got popped thinking he was going to score. Believe me, I was excited when we got him, thinking he was going to be the homerun threat and excellent returner… but he hasnt done any of that yet.
I think that he is what he is, and thats just not that good right now. Theres too much talent found all over the NFL draft and in the UDFA pool for him not to produce. If hes not getting it done, someone can. It happens every year.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
He was stuffed twice. First up the gut then trying to beat them with his “speed.”
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever the big stop at the goal line was
where he completely slowed down was the final indication for me that he’ll never be an NFL runningback. That was just pathetic.
Limited time only! Use code "ELMCCCM" to save 5%.
by twoeightnine on Nov 22, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t believe you’re considering Spiller a greater asset in 5 touches than Fred Jackson in 20+ touches. You are aware of the stat that he’s produced a 20+ -yard play at least once in each game this season, right?
Please. If Spiller needs so much time and so many carries to warm up, then he’s a less-valuable asset than i’ve given him credit for.
He needs to man up. Such a waste. Getting stuffed at the goalline, when his speed should have gotten him to the edge. He can’t out-muscle anyone in the NFL.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, he has shown a couple of flashes (preseason against colts?, KO return vs. Pats), but a miss in the sense of an immediate impact player at a position that historically does not require a lot of development. I’m not saying he is worthless by any means, but if you are going to draft a running back that early, you need to see Adrian Peterson or Darren McFadden type production. Preferrably you don’t have to wait ala Darren McFadden and hopefully CJ Spiller.
Do you know how many players in the NFL in the last 2 years...
have had a good pre-season game and a return TD?
Tons. And many, many, many, many of them were not #9 overall. Lots of them went undrafted.
Fact is he is 25 games into his career and does not have a memorable game yet. You could argue the NE game last year with the KO and Receiving TD, but that would be it.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
CJ Spiller
Spiller’s “playmaking ability” vs actually being on the field enough as a 1st rd draft pick to make those plays is the point I think we’re getting at. As a 1st rounder you HAVE TO put him on the field. You build your team around your #1 picks in the draft not try to plug them in here and there to see where they fit. If you don’t know where your #1 pick fits then Houston, we have a problem!
To add to my point
I for one HATED the Spiller pick, not Spiller himself because I thought we had the best backfield in the league at the time in Jackson/Lynch = smash mouth, run it down your throat and stop us if you can. From there, you see where the strength lies (backfield) and you build around that. With Jackson/Lynch you go out and sign the biggest, nastiest OLineman you can find either in the draft or FA until you have mountains for lineman. But, Gailey didn’t go that route. Instead, he decides to bring in Spiller who doesn’t fit the mold of our then backfield. So, what should have happened? You immediately get rid of Fred or Lynch and play one BEHIND Spiller, your 1st ROUND PICK. Then, by looking at Spiller’s strengths and weaknesses, you say this guy is not a power back and he’s much better in space so, we need more agile and athletic O Lineman like Levitre who are mobile enough to pull to seal the edges in order to get Spiller out in space (kind of like the Titans use CJ2K and the Chiefs use Charles). Simple. Problem solved. If Gailey and Nix did this with Spiller he would be phenomenal right now because we would have built our offense to his strengths.
I know what I’m about to say might not be rec’d but if I’m Nix and I want to make good use out of my first #1 pick during my tenure, I trade Fred next yr for a 1st – 2nd rd pick no less. Having Fred play as well as he is while your #1 pick sits the bench is doing more harm to your team long term than it is good. At least Fred’s 2011 success should be able to yield us a 1st or 2nd rd pick to team desperate for an all-star all-purpose back. If Nix does that, he better sign (draft or FA) some top flight o-lineman who can move.
Since it’s quite obvious Gailey is bent on having a spread offense, then what he needs to be successful is speed, speed, speed! Signing Spiller now makes since (IF, he insert s him into the starting lineup). In a spread, you need a change of pace back to spell Siller. Not the other way around. Then again, your change of pace back is not supposed to out perform your starter either. But, that only happens when the HC or OC doesnt build to fit the starter (spiller). An ex would be like the Saints catering their line to ingrahm but have sproles to come in as a change of pace back asking him to run in between the tackles. wth?!?!
They draft Spiller to begin building the spread, but then a yr later you say you have to get bigger and more physical upfront for Jackson while Spiller (YOUR NUMBER 1 PICK) gets to work on his lunges by downing kickoffs in the endzone?!?! WTH?!?!?! This seems to be a serious competency problem that we’ll get to judge even further this offseason that…Hold on to your hats men, women, boys and girls…this is going to be a very bumpy ride!
what you’re missing is that the Bills didn’t think that they had good coaching and it was tough for them to evaluate all of their players on past film because of coaching and injuries – which were massive if you recall – similar to what’s starting to happen now.
The reason people say it’s a 5 year plan is because the 1st year is a complete wash year evaluating the team from an organizational and personnel standpoint. This gives the front office the opportunity to see how players grade in their systems with their coaches instead of just ripping the entire roster apart as fast as possible to get new bodies in. Nix is clearly going slower than most NFL GM’s but doesn’t mean it won’t necessarily work in the end.
We’ve done so many 3 year band-aid type of rebuilds that never pan out and we have a GM that is finally bucking that trend and not giving a hoot about what the media and fans say because he thinks that once he’s done he’ll have the necessary talent to compete year in and year out – which is another reason he’s building from the football out.
I read your comments a lot and I get a unreal sense if impatience and unreal expectations from them. Spiller was one of the highest graded players to come out of the NFL that year – that is a fact. The Bills drafted a talented football player and lots of teams would have done the same.
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
The difference between 2010 and 2011
is that Gailey coached in the Senior Bowl and got a firsthand look at the players. He should do that every year. I wouldn’t give a plugged nickel for Nix’ judgement.
by Rick A on Nov 22, 2011 1:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You realize Nix was there too, right? On the field?
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
So were Nix’s.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
yep
Nix is the personnel guy. Chan says so himself. Chan will use the players that Buddy supplies. In fact, in some ways, Nix is a glorified scout, moreso than a GM.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
well, you can disagree
but in this instance, you are just wrong if you don’t think Nix is part of the process in determining players on this team.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
The buck stops with Nix. I don’t believe Nix is a very good judge of talent, especially at the college level. My bigger opinion of him is he’s a good ol’ boy who rode John Butler’s and AJ Smith’s coattails for two decades before he got the GM job.
My bigger opinion of him is he’s a good ol’ boy who rode John Butler’s and AJ Smith’s coattails for two decades before he got the GM job.
What other methods are there to learn how to be a GM? A team can either hire a guy that “interned” under a successful GM or hire someone with no experience. The former seems to be the better choice.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Nov 22, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
yep
Seems smarter to me; and sorry Rick A but perhaps you should do some further research into job function for NFL front offices. Obviously you are lacking in some knowledge of what or who the GENERAL MANAGER is supposed to be for an NFL team. Maybe you think they have to be former QBs like Elway or something. I assure you, this is not the case. I much rather have a guy with experience finding talent, as the person who MAKES THE DRAFT SELECTIONS, and signs the FREE AGENTS, whether undrafted, or coming from another program.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
You’re disagreeing with the fact that Buddy Nix’s opinions were critical to who the team picked on draft day? He’s the GM, man.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Nov 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No, I’m disagreeing that Nix is a good judge of talent. I believe that Gailey’s firsthand coaching of the Senior Bowl college players is why the 2011 draft will be judged much better than 2010. And unless Gailey gets selected again, I don’t have high hopes for the 2012 draft.
I believe that Gailey’s firsthand coaching of the Senior Bowl college players is why the 2011 draft will be judged much better than 2010.
OBVIOUSLY first hand knowledge and exposure to players is an advantage. That isn’t the matter in question. Nix is just as/even MORE responsible than Chan Gailey is for the guys on our roster. This isn’t even in contention, period. That is HIS job. Gailey USES the guys NIX supplies. Fact.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Buffalo had nine picks in 2011
Gailey coached two at the Senior Bowl: Sheppard and Chris White.
A third round pick and a 6th round pick.
Your theory doesn’t hold much water.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Pass Rusher in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
The Bills made it an emphatic point on more than one occasion to announce to the world that it was Buddy Nix alone who makes the final call on all draft choices from the moment he took the job. It was a welcome change after the circle of friends debacle, but the tradeoff is that it’s now a vacuum where the overwhelming majority for all draft success and failure can be directed towards one individual, regardless of the scouting department being in transistion following a regime change. There’s really no getting around the poor return from the 2010 draft class, particularly on a roster that lacks depth and even mediocre talent overall. Good football players find their way on to the field and make an impact in some capacity and this draft class simply has not as another season spirals down the drain. I’ve seen flashes of impact from the 2011 class as rookies and that’s a good thing, but I don’t know how strongly I can convey my concern for the ramifications if the 2010 class is as bad as my eyes tell me they are at this point. It will set the team back a long way if it’s as bad as it looks. They are running out of time and even the most Bills-iest of Bill-lievers can’t run away from the hour glass winding down fast. It’s crunch time for 2010.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Nov 22, 2011 1:59 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Its hard to deny the talent level of Spiller
Why is it always on Spiller not performing…some of his problems can and should fall on the coaching staff for not putting him in a position to succeed. Some of the blame should go to Spiller himself as well for not capitalizing on his limited opportunities.
The production of Freddy has hindered CJ a little bit but theres no reason Spiller shouldnt be averaging 10-15 touches per game…
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 22, 2011 2:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Good point. I agree with this. This was a pick we know Gailey wanted. So it seems odd Nix should be entirely shouldered with it.
I think there was a press conference where Nix talked about why guys work or dont’ work out and he laid out three reason. 1) They can’t play football/talent — i.e. bad pick 2) Development, you gotta develop the horses you get and that requires teachers and continuity etc. 3) Injury/Health? Can’t remember. It’s very hard to tell the difference between 1 and 2 if a guy comes in and underperforms. Is it the coaching staff not developing their innate abilities or did the scouting department saddle them with a loser. Teams that build through the draft have to develop well. Just too early to tell, since we’ve had some really bad luck with 3. Especially in 2010.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
In his defense he is currently averaging 5.5 yards per carry.
http://www.nfl.com/player/c.j.spiller/497204/profile
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
It's tough to put Spiller out there
When he very, very rarely makes a play. Freddie has made plays all over the field this year and there’s little reason to replace him with a guy who hasn’t done much of anything, even if for a handful of plays.
Now there have been opportunities to get Spiller some touches without limiting Jackson, as in screens, reverses, kick returns, whatever, but obviously the coaches haven’t wanted to do that…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
you are right
but i can’t help but wonder why we wouldn’t throw him a flat pass, or use him on a counter, or just work him in w a two RB set with both flanking Fitz more… or something! We have a significant investment in him (1st round when there wasn’t a rookie wage scale, as well as him providing almost the only depth should Fred not be ready this week) and yet we don’t even try to gain returns. Poor business decision, in my view.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
the raiders game he had 4 touches for 68 yards
thats production with limited touches… feed fred and him the ball every play and some PA to stevie, chandler or nelson..
Fitzmagic
This is the point that drives me nuts about Spillers lack of touches. You can manufacture a handful each game.
Now there have been opportunities to get Spiller some touches without limiting Jackson, as in screens, reverses, kick returns
Reverse, reverse…please just one reverse with CJ lined up out wide. I would love to see a reverse to the strong side with Chandler in the game and with Freddy running action towards CJ’s side. It gives him space and the ability to be at speed when he gets the ball.
Just one or two times, please, i’m begging.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Our O Line
Our O Line is not built to suit Spiller’s strengths, yet I would hope. Right now, it suits Fred. We have strong interior lineman but our tackles are weak, which is why we have much success running Fred inside and not so much success running spiller inside (due to his weakness) and outside (due to the lack of exterior lineman able to run block the edges). So, you go with what works, and that’s FredEx…for now. That’s why I said in my previous post we’ll have to reserve further judgement for the offseason. If Nix keeps Fred through next yr then I say he’s an idiot for wasting a 1st rd pick on Spiller cause it set our progress as an offense and his development back 3yrs. But, if Nix trades Fred (while he’s currently at the top of the league) for a high round pick 1st-2nd round no less and uses the extra pick to get an O lineman that fits the mold of a spread team and caters to spiller’s strengths, then I say Nix is a genius! Only time will tell…
Spiller goes down on first contact far too often, and as we saw in the Miami game, he’s pretty useless as an inside runner. Getting knocked flat by Vontae Davis? He couldn’t even cut or squirm for half a yard? Spiller needs open field.
could be right
but then… why can’t the “offensive genius” of Chan Gailey develop a way to get him into the open field, or in space on the edge. Other teams do this with their guys who are of a similar mold. Just plain weak, or folly- no other way to put it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
And why is it that Gailey could get creative with Roscoe Parrish but seems clueless on using Spiller?
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 2:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Could it be that CJ Spiller just isn't any good?
All I hear about is how Chan can’t figure out what he has in him and other teams haven’t gotten plenty of use out of other seemingly less talented backs, but rarely does anyone question whether Spiller is actually good enough to perform at the level needed/expected.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It could be this
But the guy hasnt exactly been given the Tebow treatment to sink or swim….so its hard to say.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 22, 2011 2:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because he’s not as good as Fred Jackson. If he was, you’d see him on the field, not Fred.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
He got a pretty good chance when Fred went down this week
And what happened? He couldn’t even drive it in at the one despite a gaping hole. He also had opportunities at the start of last year and didn’t take them. Look at Demarco Murray, he got a chance this year and hasn’t looked back. Daniel Thomas is behind Reggie Bush but still is showing something. Spiller has had enough opportunities, it is time to put him in the category of Aaron Maybin as another complete whiff on a first rounder. It seemed like a horrible pick at the time, it looks even worse now.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Come on
The point of giving CJ a shot isnt to make him a short yardage back and then claim he failed.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
he was on the field for most of the 2nd half
not just that one drive. He has had opportunities when Fred comes off this year and he has never busted a big one. When he actually makes more than 4 yards, fans ooh and aah and say – see that flash! It’s ridiculous. Preseason of his rookie year he looked good, really good, and since then, when the men came out to play, he has looked like a lost puppy dog. Not to mention that Chan is getting to see the kid in practice and knows what he is and isn’t capable of. As much as you may want to criticize this current coaching staff and say “why don’t we get to see Spiller to find out if he can play”, the coaching staff already know the answer. If they saw anything in Spiller at this point we would see him on the field contributing to this banged up and beat down offense but continually he is not. What does that say? Either Spiller is no good or the coaching evaluation is. Take your pick. I know what mine is!
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, this is my take. I understand that he’s supposed to be a physically talented athlete, but I’ve heard stories about his wonder-lic score and can’t help but notice a total lack of on-field awareness from the guy practically every time he’s involved in a play. I think it’s getting to the point where you have to look at Spiller, himself as to why the coaches don’t deploy him with more regularity. My take is he can’t handle it yet. Will he ever?
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
i thought this last week after the goal ine play
Maybe spiller isn’t that good
by thunder_716 on Nov 22, 2011 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you make a decent point here
unfortunately until we get to really see him fail we’ll never know.
The starting point is college production, which was incredible. He played at a great school with big competition.
The second point would be pure athletic characteristics and he did well at the combine and has great speed.
I guess the third point could be smarts but i don’t put much in the wonderlic so I’m not sure how you can measure this.
So can he succeed at the next level?
I’m not sure that you can discard the coaching, the system, the talent around him, the opportunities that are given to him. I think those are all very important pieces to this puzzle. To me it’s simple, top 15 picks need to be immediate starters. They need to see lots of playing time, regardless how they play. A top 15 pick is a huge investment and I expect the coaching staff to make good use of them and to work hard (extra hard) at bringing them up to speed. I hold the coach responsible. The superstar talent should blossom in that 2-4 year period and if it doesn’t then flush him. But to give him so few opportunities is awful because we don’t know. It’s like Maybin, I was never a fan of his and hated the pick but I would have liked to see him get a ton more playing time to confirm that he really is no good. In the little time he’s been with the Jets he’s gotten a lot more opportunities and has looked way better than when he was with us.
Top round selections should get lots of playing time. The only exception I would say would be for the QB position because it requires so much more maturation and development. For all other positions I’d prefer to see them on the field learning in real time.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Wow!
rec’d keysh67!!! You put this exactly how I have been trying to. Spiller MUST be on the field in place of Jackson. He’s the #1 pick. He should have been inserted there upon arrival. He wasn’t, and that allowed Fred to capitalize on him. But, our coaching staff should have realized that Spiller was completely different from Jackson and built the offense AROUND SPILLER’s talents. Instead, we make no upgrades to the OT’s where the weakness is on our line and now expect Spiller – an outside J. Charles/CJ2k/R. Bush type back – to be a power inside back. And that he is not. So, as much as people can say Spiller sucks I can say Gailey sucks for not getting him involved the way he should have been.
Calm down buddy!
Spiller MUST be on the field in place of Jackson
I never said or implied that he should be on the field instead of Jackson. I think they could find ways of keeping both guys on the field. Freddy has more than earned his spot.
They could use Spiller in the backfield, slot, reverses, screens, etc. They chose to waste a top 10 pick on a guy who plays at a position we were set at, now they need to give him the opportunity to flourish otherwise it’s a wasted pick. To me it’s simple every top 15 pick should get 4 years to prove themselves on the real field on game days. If this were the rule, then some guys we become 2nd and 3rd rounders almost automatically but then again, teams would not set themselves back 10 years like us
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
they aren't even similar perhaps
and really, i didn’t see a WHOLE LOT of “creativity” in the way Gailey used Roscoe before being injured. Unless you consider ACTUALLY PUTTING HIM ON THE FIELD as creative thinking, which i could follow, since Dick Jauron obviously never attempted this. But just because he lined up and caught some passes, doesn’t equate to creativity to me.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Gailey had Parrish in motion a lot, using him on screens and such. Jauron’s main offensive problem was that he had the vanilla mentality of lining up the opponent’s best guys on our best guys and assuming our guys would make plays. Parrish is not a guy that can beat a jam at the line or be a premier outside guy, so he was virtually useless in that type of offense.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
I realize this article is more focued on the scouting & front offce structure aspect but
I have to take this opportunity to say that I never understood the Troup pick.
To invest such a valuable resource as the 41st overall draft pick in a small school DT who was often solid yet unspectacular in college seemed like a big reach at the time and seems even worse now, IMO.
Seemed like this pick was all about starting the transition to the 3-4 defense…yet I don’t even believe they picked the best guy at the positon…ask me then, I would have told you go for Terrence Cody, although I understand if they were concerned about his weight issues. But to invest such a high pick in a guy with a low ceiling? Can’t you get a big, run stuffing anchor anywhere? Why was the 41st pick needed to address this, when your not even selecting a guy with the ceiling to be a star?
I can even see the logic behind the CJ Spiller pick, considering the offense was sooo boring the previous season (even Ralph Wilson Jr said it was) that a general “playmaker” was a need….but the selection of Troup really seemed like a reach at the time and does not look any better now.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
Ironically
Cody was the injury risk.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Troup
Drafting that position there was questionable, at best, just like adding Dareus at 3 can be questioned position-wise. Of course, most thought Troup was a major reach, and so far, that’s proving to be true.
Your point about the 3-4 transition is a good one. We’ve used very valuable picks (2nd/3rd in ‘10, 1st in ’11) on guys that looked like better 3-4 fits. Yet, whether due to injury or just overall lack of talent, we still haven’t seen a ton of 3-4. I have questioned the FO’s ability to acquire talent and don’t like how they still seem unsure about the defensive scheme they want to run. Sure, we’ve got that hybrid scheme that hasn’t worked, and to me, that’s only run because they haven’t fully committed to acquiring 3-4 personnel. We’ll see going forward, but so far, this defense is far worse than it was when Nix came in, as sad as that can possibly be.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
WHAT?!?!
Defensive lineman of Dareus size, experience and skill set have historically been selected very high consistently. I don’t follow this at all.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
How often do 3-4 DEs go top 3 with questionable pass rush ability???
How often do DTs in general go that high?
Taking what I suspect was a 3-4 DE to them will always be questionable to me, whether he becomes a stud at what he does or not.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 22, 2011 3:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dareus put Colt McCoy out of the bowl because he wasn't a good pass rusher?
they used him at all three spots in their 3-4 system cuz he wasn’t good? cool. I guess that was just their inexperienced staff just doing whatever. oh wait… Saban is pretty solid, and smart right? Crimson Elephant is fine with me. Don’t care if we took him 1st. Has already proven worthy of being selected, i don’t care where. It is ok if you don’t agree, but your argument is weak at best. Supply dictates demand, as well as need indicates cost you are willing to pay. these factors clearly make him worth the selection, since what are we supposed to do? move back 5 spots, and see someone else take him,so he can be selected where you feel DTs deserve to be picked? Take the guy you like if he is there.
He is a DT cuz our starting pro bowl DT is on injured reserve. So, idk why you choose to look at his draft position as if he is a DT, when the staff obviously saw him as a DE. Seems like you are adjusting the current circumstance/your perception to fit the argument, here.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
What does one play have to do with anything?
they used him at all three spots in their 3-4 system cuz he wasn’t good? cool.
I never said anything remotely close to that.
It is ok if you don’t agree, but your argument is weak at best
He had 11 career sacks in college. Not bad, but hardly indicative of being a top pass rusher and worthy of using a top 3 pick on a 3-4 DE for. How is that argument any weaker that what you offered?
He is a DT cuz our starting pro bowl DT is on injured reserve. So, idk why you choose to look at his draft position as if he is a DT, when the staff obviously saw him as a DE.
Umm, what? I’ve said all along it’s too early to draft a 3-4 DE that isn’t a top pass rusher, IMO, just as I said here. How am I looking at his draft position as anything other than a 3-4 DE?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
They might not go high because they are so rare, not because they are so useless…
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Nov 22, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
seems like 29 teams may have been more than willing to take the guy, but we just will never know. i don’t understand the thinking, personally.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
neither do I – solid interior defensive linemen don’t come around every day. They’re hard to find and they make a difference on your football team.
by J2 on Nov 22, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
solidthat's better. ; )interiordefensive linemen don’t come around every day. They’re hard to find and they make a difference on your football team.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Every player on a football team makes a difference, that why we call it a team sport. Defensive linemen are not difference makers and cannot single hand-idly change the course of a game. A top 5 pick should be a difference maker IMO
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Every player makes a difference but is not a difference maker? That hurt my brain.
A top 5 pick should be a guy who can come in and help your team immediately and for a long, long time. Who cares what position he plays, as long as he fills a hole? Our run defense went from being horrible to watch to being mediocre after a single draft, improving by more than 30 yards a carry. If you don’t think that he was a good use of a #3 pick, then I think your expectations are too high.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
You don’t need to spend a top 5 pick to get that guy. That’s all I am saying!
Improving by 30y per game is great but it’s background noise compared to a Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson or Von Miller or Peyton Manning or Matt Stafford or André Johnson
Rhythm Guitar vs Lead Guitar, it’s way easier to find a good rhythm guitar than a great lead guy.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson
Peyton Manning
Guys like these don’t come around very often to realistically expect drafting one. These three are either currently or have been for the majority of their careers the best at their position.
30 yards per game might not seem like much, but that 30 yards less that the offense can dictate the flow and control the game, and when we get an OLB that’s worth a damn running behind Dareus, I think we’ll see more tangible evidence of his impact :)
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 23, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not disputing his impact at all here.
I’m only saying that this position can be filled from picks 8-20 quite easily IMO, that’s it.
Go back in history and find me a dominant DT that you’d draft in the top 3 over other star players in his draft year and believe me there aren’t many. The only one in the past 15-20years for me would be Warren Sapp. He was drafted 12th overall but if the 1995 draft was taking place all over again, I think it would be justified to draft Sapp in the top 3. I guess you could make a case for Suh as well. So far, Dareus is far from being a difference maker like Suh or Sapp. A strong run-stuffer can be had with later picks 8-20 so top 3 is too much.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Yeah
At #3 overall a QB woulda been nice!
by buffalobacker on Nov 23, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson immediately come to mind. If im not mistaken, people said Suh could be either 34 or 43. Thats just to name a couple. And judging from this team’s ability to defend the run vs last year I would say the pick has thus far worked out. It’s not gaudy, but it was a necessity. It was a low risk pick that helped our biggest problem from the year prior.
I understand and agree with you on this one.
3-4 DEs and DTs are like rhythm guitar players, they are important to a band because they hold the rhythm but they aren’t the superstar studs of the band. The 3rd overall pick should be for a superstar that can effectively change a game all on his own.
3-4 DEs are often part of the background noise, they rarely stick-out more than a few times per game. Even as good as he is, would Ngata go 3rd overall if we re-did the 2006 draft? I think not. Williams, Fergusson, Hali, MJD, Davis would all surely go ahead of Ngata and possibly even Jennings and/or Marshall and personally I would take Mangold ahead of him as well. And the main point here is that there aren’t many DT/DEs better than Ngata right now playing the game.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Yeah,
I wanted Cody, bad. The weight issues, but the dudes a player. We could use him on this line.
Hell Kellen Heard is seeing extensive action… Terrance Cody would have been a good fit.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
Don’t think that Troup being injured hasn’t been the main factor in why we’re seeing so much of Kellen Heard. Gailey has proven repeatedly that he’s cautious when it comes to working in injured players.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
I understand that.
But its just frustrating that our team continues to “take the high road” and not consider these players in the draft that have a little bit of a troubled past.
Wooopie!! We’re the nice guys!! We have good character.
Give me Dez Bryant, give me Terrance Cody. Those players are real football players.
We sw what happened when we brought in Merriman, it gave us a little bit of an edge or, swagger, if you will. But we need more than just one guy.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
Ultimately, I think that is something that comes down to an individual preference of each coach (or perhaps GM). LeGarrett Blount is tearing it up in Tampa Bay, but how many teams avoided him like the plague? Every team draws the line somewhere. There are teams that are the ‘good guys’. That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t have talent. When is the last time you heard about a member of the Packers getting in trouble with the law?
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
Imagine
having Dez Bryant or Pouncey on this team.
And LaGarrent Blount over Kyle Calloway (who? exactly)
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
we can play this game forever.
imagine (fill in every player that has panned out selected after any player we aren’t satisfied with here) if we had a crystal ball… we would be AWESOME. This is a pointless exercise. Wish and dream if you like, I prefer to support my team and it’s roster, personally.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Who said Im not supporting them?
Im just saying going with the “Draft the good guys” isnt the way that the NFL is anymore. Every team has some players with iffy-pasts and issues. But a lot of them are also players that help these teams win.
And above anything else, including high character, is winning. Thats what a FO should be drafting. Players that are the best option at that position of need, regardless of their background.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
nope you prefer “draft the bad-asses”. that’s fine. I am happy with developing the TEAM that we have, since football is a team sport. Background is a factor in the hiring of EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME. Fact. At least according to common Human Resource practices.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Well last I checked.
The NFL isnt Fedex Kinkos or Texas Roadhouse.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
no – but it does matter – clearly – to a lot of NFL teams.
by J2 on Nov 22, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
imagine if we had a crystal ball… we would be AWESOME.
much better without the parentheses
by J2 on Nov 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
hey
i am just saying we could name players over and over and over in every single draft. any 2nd round producer is automatically worthy of a 1st and so on. it is just an exercise in futility to think in this manner.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hold on TRT,
are we now supporters of incompetence? because that’s clearly been the case in the past decade worth of top draft picks and I think is the point bflo was trying to make.
nowhere did i say that
or do i see how i inferred that.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 23, 2011 4:38 AM EST up reply actions
that’s clearly been the case in the past decade worth of top draft picks
there’s a difference between supporting incompetence and realizing that this is year 2 of this regime and giving them time to build their team.
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
True
But this franchise has been rebuilding for how long? Understood this regime deserves a chance but when do say WTF? Maybe FO/Owner need to wake up!
by buffalobacker on Nov 23, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Rome
Was built quicker than these constant re-builds this franchise endures!
by buffalobacker on Nov 23, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
i’m not disagreeing at all there – it sucks! But it’s still reality and that’s how i let it play out.
by J2 on Nov 23, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Imagine having Kevin Kolb over JaMarcus Russell. Imagine having Larry Fitzgerald over Reggie Williams. Talent and character are not mutually exclusive.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
right?
AND THE LIST GOES ON…… AND ON…… and we would never stop talking about how we could assemble a team of pro bowlers if we only hit on every single pick, in and out, every year. good heavens. ridiculous.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Kyle Calloway (who? exactly)
Hindsight. Also historical white washing. A good majority of Bills fans wanted Calloway, and many people outside of Bills nation thought he would be draft worthy in the 3rd round.
Because of this, many Bills fans thought we drafted a major steal in the 7th and locked down the right tackle position with this kid.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
sounds kinda like Shawn Nelson to me
Value doesn’t indicate they will be successful, and more than a “reach” means that they aren’t a value. Great point. Hindsight….keep popping up, right?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
How many bad characters do you see on the Packers?
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
This is to both of you above...
Im not saying for Nix to go watch an episode of COPS and draft those 7 criminals in the 2012 draft…
But players with off-field issues and troubled pasts shouldnt completely turn you off as a GM.
Clay Mathews is an A-hole on the field. He flipped off the bench and then lied about it.
Jolly is going to jail for 6 years.
CB Brandon Underwood was arrested for domestic disturbance this past offseason.
But guess what, they just won the Super Bowl… So give me that. Please.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
yeah, we shoulda got Haynesworth off waivers
and maybe we coulda drafted Aqib Talib, or half of the Cincinatti Bengals. I def rather have guys who will miss games, not with injury, but with prison time/suspension/community service. ugh. done with this personally. just makes less sense when the league is pushing for the teams to have people who represent the NFL well, for us to go after scumbags just because they play with some edge and can be cheaters like Wolfork.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Again, youre pushing this to the extreme edge.
“Lets go draft Fishkill State Penn RIGHT?!?!?!”
No. Im saying that if a player of need is available, but has a troubled past, that shouldnt dimiss him from the option of drafting him.
Talib got in trouble while in the league.
Haynesworth got in trouble, while in the league.
Bengals got in trouble, while in the league.
Nothing about the draft…
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
cool
sure there were no warning signs prior to the draft. that was why Blunt went so high even after being productive right? oh wait… he plummeted to almost not selected at all, right?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
oops Blount.
not that it matters. again, hindsight is always 20/20. that means that we can always look back after the fact, and see better potential situations, when the time has already passed. I choose to look forward, rather than whine about what wouldacouldashoulda happened.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what Im saying!!!
Warning signs or not. The dude punched a player and that was horrible… but he was still worth a 6th round pick.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
sure.
but his questions dropped him out of LATE FIRST ROUND discussion. obviously this is what I am saying…. character matters to overall impression and locker room meshing. to think otherwise is just silly. it is a factor. obviously, 32 teams passed him 5 times at least, as the risk/reward was questionable. Easy to say he was worth the pick now that he hasn’t decked any other opponents or teammates as of yet. HIndsight… etc.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
like the GB defensive tackle who just got sentenced to prison you mean?
oh yeah, he isn’t on the team anymore cuz he is in jail.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
And I also mention Clay Mathews...
last I checked he was on the team. He is an a-hole on the field… but he preforms to the highest level. I want that on my team. Not the player thats good but helps his opponite up off the ground, so we should draft him.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
cool
name any aggressive player you like. I would happily like some influx of talent, and edgy players. That said… scumbags need not apply.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
If you’re going to label someone flipping the bird once in a while bad character, than the world is beyond hope. There were no character questions or work ethic questions for Matthews coming out of college.
Johnny Jolly and Underwood are 2 examples on a team of 53, and neither are exactly counted upon as highly as others. Neither are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounders.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
we better not use cody's weight
as being an issue when we draft a 400 pounder the following yr.
A 7th round pick is quite a substantially less commitment than a 2nd round pick.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 23, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
We need to stop giving Nix a pass
this is weirdly built team. The Spiller pick made absolutely no sense. They were hoping to catch a potential CJ2K just like Jauron was hoping to strike gold with Maybin.
Somehow, Chix bought into this narrative that the previous team was devoid of talent which was not true. They poorly assessed the talent they had and then made very strange choices. Also Nix was supposed to be a scouting man, so it is not an excuse that he came in and had to put up with the scouting operation. There is enough information out there to make good decisions on your first and second round picks. The scouts then make their money on the other guys. BTW, these bad scouts brought us SJ and meatball and Bell, so we can’t dismiss them too quickly.
The Spiller pick made absolutely no sense
not sure that is accurate.
He was a senior that projected as a top 10 RB. By all accounts this guy was a sure bet talent without any question marks or character issues. It was Nix’s first pick in his regime so he probably wanted it to be safe.
Easy today to say that JPP would have been a much better pickup for us but that guy had boom/bust written all over him like Maybin. The next sure bet candidates coming out were Iupati and Pouncey but 9th overall was way too soon and we had other pressing needs. Jermaine Gresham was coming off an injury and Bryant had flags coming out the wazoo! So to say that the Spiller pick made no sense is not accurate in my opinion. It seemed like a luxurious pick for a team with two good RBs and plenty of other needs but it seemed like a safe pick at the time.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
I'm not saying Spiller wasn't as talented as a #9
I’m saying for a team that was supposed to devoid of talent and depth, it makes no sense to pick a player at #9 who is a wild card. A luxury pick when you have talent, you can live with. A luxury pick when your life depends on the pick makes very little sense.
Small running backs cannot pick up blitzes for you which is half the use of a good back. He would take too much of a beating and besides we had Lynch and Jackson, who had shown enough back then.
I don’t care if they reached for someone who was not worth it but would be a contributor at a vital position for the next 10 years, that would have been fine with me.
People would have complained about the reach and then if that player didn’t pan out more criticism would come.
Really it was a no win for him at 9. He should’ve traded down but that does not seem to be part of his mindset either.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
It’s not just that. How many trades do you see in the top 10 of a draft? Not many. It’s tough to part with that much compensation (in terms of money and draft picks) for one player. Look how roundly the Falcons were criticized for the Julio Jones trade.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
I still am not willing to criticize Nix for taking Spiller because I’m not sure that he had many other options. It’s a lot easier to manage the bills from our armchairs but real world is often quite a bit more complicated. Spiller still has another 1.5 years to prove that he was worth such a high pick.
Obviously in hindsight, I’d have take Jason Pier-Paul in a nanosecond!
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
The next sure bet candidates coming out were Iupati and Pouncey but 9th overall was way too soon and we had other pressing needs.
Pressing needs, like RB?? Our O-line was/is not good. We could have definitely used of those two fellas.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
yeah
but it should have been obvious that before arriving, they knew that Marshawn was on his way out. He was drawing too much negative attention and criticism to start. apart from him, they saw only then aging journeyman Fred Jackson out of Coe (where? ; )) college. This pick has sound logic behind it, to some degree. Especially given what he showed consistently in college. I am not ready to write him off before I see him used. Look at Jamaal Charles in his first year and a half… those questioning Spiller would likely have hated him too.. but because he didn’t go #9, he deserves more patience, and even though Spiller isn’t getting even close to JC’s workload… he just sucks? That seems a combination of rash, harsh, and unrealistic.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what I was just talking about above.
In regards to Lynch, he was casting a negative shadow. So what? He was still a good player. You better believe he wouldnt have gave up at the half yard line and been sent flying backwards Sunday.
My problem is were into only bringing in good character guys. Well, I want to win football games. And while good character is a plus, football skill at positions of need should come first and foremost.
Give me Dez Bryant opposite of Lee Evans 2 years ago. Dez is a punt returner as well, so theres the “duel threat” that CJ “is.”
Give me Cody in the middle, learning from Williams. Imagine being able to rotate Williams, Cody and Dareus. (althought we probably could have gone Patrick Peterson since we would have Mt Cody) Hey, CB, another position of need!!
Lynch and Jackson as a one two duo.
The decisions that this team has made over the last decade, even while change at the helm, continue to frustrate me.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
so what? we are obviously a fanbase that like character guys. that should be totally clear. they wanted to change the look of the team, we needed “faces” of the organization. ML wasn’t gonna be it.
I agree that guys with character and edge are more difficult to find.
Dez is solid, albeit potentially injury prone.
Personally, happy with Troup. He was highly touted as a junior under his mom’s surname of Johnson. Go check it out.
I would have supported Patrick Peterson COMPLETELY. he was my pick, if choosing between him and Von Miller.
Lynch and Jackson had a similar skillset. Jackson and Spiller COULD be used as a one two duo, but that has never even been attempted.
the last decade is not really relevant to this staff. they weren’t here. i don’t understand why so many fans fail to distinguish this SIGNIFICANT fact.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ok so you like to be the nice guys, with the nice stories of the team lead by 7th rounders and undrafteds.
Ill take the A-holes that win games. And that the FO only cares about winning games and Super Bowls.
I like my chances a lot more.
Dez is solid, albeit potentially injury prone.
Because he broke his leg last year?
Personally, happy with Troup. He was highly touted as a junior under his mom’s surname of Johnson. Go check it out.
So he as good 3 years ago in the Big East?? What has he done in a Bills jersey to make you proud?
I said we would have taken Peterson is Cody was on this team, but I we had to go Dareus, who I wanted, because our run D was ranked 99th in the NFL.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
broken leg not an impactful injury when your job is running?
my bad.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
additionally
i support plenty of Bills’ players who have yet to be utilized or shown to be either good enough, or just bad. If they are a question mark still, I am more than willing to give each of them the benefit of the doubt. My choice, and i am entitled to it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Then what do you think of Eric Wood?
Broken leg, hurt again, torn ACL. 3 years straight.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
He missed time his first year. Sucked. He missed 2 games his second, which were irrelevant anyway, as we were done anyway. He will miss the remainder this year, and that is very disconcerting. But I can’t say that lower leg injuries to interior offensive lineman are uncommon. I think, it is unfortunate that he has been injured, once in a horrible fashion that was not his fault, once only slightly (just ankle) and the second time he suffers a major injury, it is on a cheap shot that he should have been more aware of.
I think he fits the mold that I like: he plays with a chip, but he isn’t dirty. he has talent, and size, and ability. He was worth his late first as much as Levitre was worth his late second. Happen to be a big fan of the Byrd selection too. So… after each of these guys has panned out after being used… i feel the same could be true for a number of our other picks still.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
And to youre point about the last decade, different faces...
The guy calling the shots is the same. RWS.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
i don't even know how to respond
maybe with… Fords still owns the Lions, right? this is just false. Ralph Wilson wants what we want, MORE than we do.. and has for decades. He just isn’t willing to throw the team away in a failed attempt to get there.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Winning = more money than losing and being thrifty.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Winning = Tiger Blood
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Im sure there’s a strong Chinese Market for tiger blood.
Step 1: Collect tiger blood.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
egards to Lynch, he was casting a negative shadow. So what? He was still a good player.
he already had 2 strikes – one for drugs and guns in California and one for hitting someone and running. Getting something from him made sense because one more strike and he was staring an 8+ game suspension.
by J2 on Nov 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE
I was one of the guys with a man-crush on Iupati, so I would have been ecstatic
I’m just saying that most would have called Iupati at #9 a big reach. I personally would have loved it. He was the most athletic Guard coming out of college that i had seen in a very long time.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Iupati
was classified as something of a reach even for the niners. However, I had this discussion with another friend yesterday… and we both agreed- Hindsight is always 20/20.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Amen brother!
The one that will forever haunt our team was taking Whitner over Ngata !!!!!
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
need we be reminded.. AGAIN?
; )
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
nope
just depressing still. ; )
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
My friend is a huge Niners fan and he absolutely loves Iupati. If they had to do it again, he’d be willing to drop a top 8 without even blinking!
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
for sure
i have friends who also think like i do: niners take player we want, consistently. Sure we had a chance at Iupati.. but look at willis, or davis for example. those are guys i wanted and they beat us by like, a single selection. but we will never know if we would have valued them the same way or not. people are too hung up with the actually draft selection number.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
The reason to keep Modrak around was reportedly because he had already done the bulk of the work in preparing the scouting reports on the juniors from 2010 which were the seniors in 2011. Once we were done with the 2011 draft, Modrak’s work was no longer relevant, and he was expendable. (And thank goodness he was indeed expended.)
Modrak essentially poisoned the drinking water for two years into the Nix/Gailey regime. We will need to see if drafting begins to improve with the next draft.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 2:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
That just seems like an excuse to me
Were he and the scouting staff not working on the juniors in 2011 who would be seniors for 2012 during Nix’s 2nd year? How could that be an excuse to keep him through the 2011 draft, but then not matter for the juniors they should have been scouting at the same time?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You’re proposing that they bulldoze a year (or more) of work and start all over? It’s a lot easier to fine tune the reports on the 2011 class while starting new reports on the juniors (and eliminate Modrak from the process). He was kept around mostly just to find out what he already knew, but he was already a lame duck by that point.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nix too conservative for my taste
Not that I want someone who moves all around the draft board aimlessly, but in 2010, given all the team’s needs, it made so much sense to trade down in the first round, get an extra second-round pick, and then choose BOTH Gronkowski and Troup in round two. Think how much better off the Bills would be today if Nix had done that. And that’s my big complaint with Nix — he misses opportunities.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I believe he also missed a great opportunity in 2011 by passing up Colin Kaepernick or Andy Dalton in round two. Again the team would be so much better off if we were grooming a potential franchise QB right now to take over eventually from Fitz. Instead we got a CB whose speed is a big question mark.
Nix may get the Bills back to the point where they make it into the playoffs in another year or two — maybe — but I wonder if he has the vision to bring the team up to real greatness. For that you have to be willing to take some risks. I hope I’m wrong.
He’s definitely set in his ways. He sees the rebuild process in only one way – his.
I’m far from convinced that Kaepernick will ever succeed but in Dalton’s case i think many personnel guys are not regretting not taking this kid in the 1st round. When I see the crap we have at CB right now, I’m kinda glad they tried to address the issue.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Putting this in perspective
Nearly all of the draft picks taken before Nix arrived are not only not with the Bills, they are either struggling to find work as a backup somewhere or are completely out of the league. Nobody is clamoring for the services of Trent Edwards, JP Losman, John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, Shawn Nelson, James Hardy, Chris Ellis, etc. As long as we can draft players that are productive and stick around for many years, then we are light years ahead of where we were in the past.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 2:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
To steal a quote from Chuckie last night on MNF.
As long as we can draft players that are productive and stick around for many years, then we are light years ahead of where we were in the past.
“Its like beating a blind kid in a coloring contest.”
So because our drafts now are better than the past 5 years its ok? I dont like that thinking of all. Thats like having a D- and striving for a D+… we shouldnt have to settle. We want and should expect the best.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
You don’t rebuild an entire 53-man roster by drafting seven people. We’re all being extremely impatient with the rebuilding process now that we have been teased with a momentary glimpse of life in first place. It will take several years to undo the damage left behind by a decade of dumb drafting. I don’t know if I would call either the 2010 or 2011 draft classes so bad as to label them a D+ just yet. You can’t fully assess a draft class this soon unless all of those players are out of the league.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 3:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Carrington is the only player making an impact on this team from '10.
That in my eyes is reason enough to grade it a D-.
Too many rookies and 2nd year players in this league are playing incredible this year to not have any other player do anything from our draft.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
guy named Moats had proven effective last year
as well as serving some purpose this year. Troup had been injured.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Moats has been ok.
But he certainly is nothing more than a back-up/role player, IMO.
Like I said, too many 1st and 2nd year players from all over the draft and undrafted are taking this league head on… we’re missing out.
Fitz = M(C)²
"Lets Go Buff! a! lo!"
I got a TROPPer in the car, uhh!!
idk.
he could be our Lawrence Timmons, someday.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Troup, Batten, Moats, and Easley have all been battling the injury bug. That isn’t a scouting issue unless those were players that were seen as a major injury risk coming out of college, like Willis McGahee or Nick Fairley.
Again, this is just an impatient judgment if you are saying that Carrington will be the only member of that draft class to have an impact on the team.
by SiriusRed on Nov 22, 2011 3:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
impatient
is the perfect word/idea/sentiment to describe anyone rushing to not give guys a chance, when they haven’t even been given the chance.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Interestingly
It could be a HUGE week for C.J. Spiller. If he starts, it doesn’t get much tougher than against a division opponent that prides itself on stout defense.
:sigh:
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 2:54 PM EST reply actions
spiller seems to not have any football sense whatsoever maybe even uncoachable. if the pick was a whim reaching for a play maker without scouting or worse yet actually scouted , anyway makes it hard to forgive with all the other needs, play him I wanta know!
Maybe you don’t, but I see improvement in Spiller this year. He’s been more patient. He hasn’t been given the ball very much, but I’d still like to see what happens if we just put the primary RB duties on him for a game or two and let him get in a rhythm.
As a side note, I’m starting to think that Bruce DeHaven isn’t a very good special teams coach, and the blocking schemes have been poor. It’s rare that you see one of our returners, including Spiller, break to the outside on a run-back.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
he HAS been more patient
and can’t be entirely at fault for our line being less effective overall. Bruce was weak to me last year in my opinion, and special teams has been all but neutralized in this season for many teams. i had hoped that our returners could be a difference maker, and maybe a coaching change could work.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
DeHaven was last with Buffalo for the Music City Miracle…IIRC. I don’t think DeHaven is getting the job done, but I bet he gets a pass because of the new kickoff rule.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 22, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Troup
Was a reach…and can’t stay healthy, and we passed on a lot of talent for that reach…this is not excusable considering we picked spiller in round 1. Either Carrington is good or he is a member of a defense that can’t stop anythig…i know its not his fault…its no one’s fault…and of course the argument that the draft was modrak’s fault and not Nix’s doesnt hold water either…the guy preaches about building through the draft and has yet to produce a sufficient answer on defense despite the lion’s share of the draft devoted to plugging holes on defense…you can’t have it both ways…the alternative is that it is the coaching that can’t use the talent we have stocked effectively which i am apt to believe…as i see guys way out of position and a secondary that seems stuck in some zone defense which covers nothing…and a man defense that has no safety help…
Troup was not a huge reach their where two nose tackle prospects in that draft. Terrence Cody and Torrell Troup but it takes three years before you can accuratly judge a draft. So all this discusion and this article is moot to me.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Nov 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
right? plus, look at the talent around Cody
who was regarded as lazy due to his size at draft time.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
and who couldn’t pass his physical for a while in his first training camp
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
yup.
but he was CLEARLY a better choice. Cuz our team can be even loosely compared to the Ravens regarding defense, OBVIOUSLY. hahaha.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Terrennce cody has not done much for ravens either if I remember correctly. Who will be a better player is yet to be seen.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Nov 22, 2011 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yup, this is basically the point.
it is impossible to say who would be/could be/ will be the best. For all we know, he would be even lazier here, sitting behind our favorite Meatball.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Nov 22, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
BARF
For a city that most free agents dont want to move to you need to have good draft classes When you have bad drafts and are located in a city that isn’t appealing to top free agents you have the current state of the Buffalo Bills.
Barf Barf Barf. Here is to only going to the games for the tailgating for the rest of the season.
CJ Spiller
Your first draft pick often defines the class. Spiller is a bust, it’s time to make that call. Therefore despite the fact that Carrington, Moats and Batten seem like developing into solid squad members the class will always be looked on as a failure due to the no9 pick.
, it’s time to make that call.
Why? Because he’s been behind good backs for 2 years?
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Spiller started opening day last year
The reason he is behind those backs is because he failed to take his opportunity, not because someone rose above him. As well as Lynch is playing now he wasn’t contributing while in Buffalo. As well as FJ finished last year he still didn’t get the spot guaranteed this year until pre-season was over, how easily we forget how unhappy FJ was over this, but it was only 4 months ago! Blame the coaching staff if you will but Spiller has had ample opportunity to come in and take the top spot and never once as he even looked like doing it.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
because he failed to take his opportunity
And it has nothing to do with Fred Jackson being currently ranked 3rd overall in rushing? Cmon. We’re not going to start taking carries away from Jackson to give to Spiller when Jackson is running as effectively as he has been in the past.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson's performance
has occurred this year, after Spiller had multiple shots at the top job. I am not advocating giving Spiller more reps at the expense of Jackson. I am saying that Spiller is a bust because he is not very good,
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson’s performance
has occurred this year,
This we’ll have to disagree on. Throughout his entire career, Jackson’s lowest single season YPC is 4.2. Beyond that, he has 900 yards rushing and 200 receiving despite only starting 13 games. The RB position was as much “up for grabs” as the LG position this summer – that is to say, it wasn’t.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
**
900 and 200 rushing receiving for last year.
by NordicBillsfan on Nov 22, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
no, I do agree with you on that. Jackson has been very good for a consistent period of time. However I do not believe Spiller is very good nor do I believe he ever will be.
by Billsdownunder on Nov 22, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
when did spiller have multiple shots at the top job?
in the 2010 preseason he was the starter for a bit bc lynch and jackson were hurt. he was excellent in that preseason. come week 1 the starter was still marshawn lynch.
this season the job has been jacksons from the start. sure, spiller was given extra reps in the preseason and he didnt look very good. but no one on the bills looked good in the preseason, save the marcus easley / ryan fitzpatrick party at the lions game. im not gonna conclude that the guys entire careers a wash because 1 of his 2 preseasons didnt go well
21 carries. 115 yds. 5.5 ypc. 1 td.
this whole “spiller doesnt get chances because he hasnt done anything with his carriers!” is completely bogus. you wanna say he stinks as a returner? fine. hes got no business playing receiver? ya, i agree. but the fact is he has produced well this year when hes been handed the rock. against oakland (week 2, mind you) he averaged like 15 ypc and since then he hasnt been handed the ball more than 3 times in a game. you know why? bc fred jackson has been playing at an all pro level.
my point is that, after the oakland game, it would have made sense to give CJ a 10 carry or so outing to see what he would make of it. or at least, it would have made sense for about 28 of the other NFL teams, who dont have fred jackson in the lineup
im sorry but fred jacksons awesomeness does not make cj spiller a bust.
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