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State Of The Bills Roster: Evaluation System Depth Chart

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We've completed our evaluations of the Buffalo Bills roster - and in the second of two recap posts, we're taking a look at the team's current personnel through the lens of my rudimentary evaluation system. You'll get it in depth chart form after the jump.

Star-divide

Pos. Group 1 (A) Group 2 (B, C) Group 3 (D, E)
WR2 83 - Lee Evans
11 - Roscoe Parrish
86 - David Nelson
19 - Donald Jones
18 - Naaman Roosevelt
LT 77 - Demetrius Bell 71 - Ed Wang
LG 67 - Andy Levitre
C 70 - Eric Wood 63 - Geoff Hangartner
RG 60 - Kraig Urbik
76 - Chad Rinehart
RT 79 - Erik Pears
TE 80 - David Martin
84 - Scott Chandler
WR1 13 - Stevie Johnson 81 - Marcus Easley
QB 14 - Ryan Fitzpatrick 10 - Levi Brown
RB 22 - Fred Jackson 21 - C.J. Spiller
FB 38 - Corey McIntyre
DE 92 - Alex Carrington
99 - Marcus Stroud
NT 95 - Kyle Williams 96 - Torell Troup
DE 98 - Dwan Edwards 91 - Spencer Johnson
SLB 90 - Chris Kelsay
57 - Danny Batten
MLB 54 - Andra Davis
50 - Akin Ayodele
WLB 51 - Paul Posluszny
53 - Reggie Torbor
JLB 52 - Arthur Moats 55 - Shawne Merriman
59 - Antonio Coleman
CB2 29 - Drayton Florence
28 - Leodis McKelvin
27 - Reggie Corner
SS 20 - Donte Whitner 43 - Bryan Scott
FS 31 - Jairus Byrd 37 - George Wilson
CB1 24 - Terrence McGee
K 9 - Rian Lindell
P 8 - Brian Moorman
LS 65 - Garrison Sanborn

Comment 115 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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my god its a bloodbath

for too many ‘3Es’ and not enough ‘1As’

by boomsauce on Feb 2, 2011 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

Not enough 1A’s? It’s the wide open spaces.

by Macktruck on Feb 2, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

48 guys can serve a purpose. That’s probably right. Fill those 5 empty spots with free agents and draft picks plus upgrade over the last few guys in that 48 to make your 53 better.

Get some B & C guys in here to replace some D&E guys….

You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 2, 2011 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

what a remarkable dearth

especially at LB, right side of the o-line and CB once florence goes, which according to his recent conversation on twitter with a revered rumbler, is happening come march 3… trading down keeps sounding better and better, however unlikely.

by beatlebum on Feb 2, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

Don’t think you correctly interpreted Florence’s tweet…

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i read that as him indicating his commitment to shopping himself around… what am i missing?

by beatlebum on Feb 2, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I read it as him stating fact.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that sure paints a picture, doesn't it.

Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks

by Dyl on Feb 2, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

Would Green or Peterson fall into 1A territory right away?

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

You’d hope so. But I don’t plan on using this particular system again until after the season is over; it’s the only fair way to really apply it.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

good point.

as far as drafts picks are concerned however. Where would you like guys to fit in on this chart compared to their respective draft spot after the season?

I know in a perfect world everyone would want every pick to be an 1A player. But realistically what should be expected? 1 1A, 2 or 3 2Bs and the rest falling into 3D?

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless a rookie is older than 25 by the time the 2012 regular season rolls around, the only spots they can be are 1-A, 2-C and 3-D. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a #3 overall pick to flash 1-A, but maybe belong in 2-C (that’s where Stevie Johnson is, after all). Rounds 2-3, it’d be nice if they were in 2-C, as well. Round 4 on, the higher the better.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Cmon, gimme a break with the letters chief! its a little confusing!

But I got your point. I would agree that at least 3 should be in the 1A or 2C.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

If you don’t like the letters, come up with a groovy naming system. I tried, and failed; hence the letters. :)

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Im not that creative

Ill leave that stuff up to you guys. But I am a firm believer that the best ideas come while having a few beers and shootin the poop.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

We already gave you good ideas...

What was wrong with my “chip” system?

For my own personal sanity, I am officially banning myself from reading/saying anything about Cam Newton.... starting the day after the Bowl game until the start of the combine.

by Joe P. on Feb 2, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Just in case you missed it the first time

Tier One (group A) – Blue Chip (Elite)
Tier Two (Group B, C) – Red Chip (steady, risers)…for example Red Chip Riser
Tier Three (Group D, E) – White Chip (steady, risers)
Tier Four (Group F) – Brown Chips (Buffalo Chips that need to be flushed)

For my own personal sanity, I am officially banning myself from reading/saying anything about Cam Newton.... starting the day after the Bowl game until the start of the combine.

by Joe P. on Feb 2, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh, chips have been done. Every good prospect is a blue-chip prospect. Andrew Luck is a blue-chip QB.

I want uniqueness! :)

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I want something that makes sense and is easy to remember

and I hate to break it to you….. numbers and letters are not unique :-)

For my own personal sanity, I am officially banning myself from reading/saying anything about Cam Newton.... starting the day after the Bowl game until the start of the combine.

by Joe P. on Feb 2, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I’m well aware. I like the way the system is organized, but even I am like “wait… is Fitz 2B or 2C” sometimes. :)

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

You could always go with something like: Brian Galliford's Pyramid of Greatness or Lack-There-Of

not much for uniqueness, but at least you could emulate a national hero!

Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 2, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

…is Fitz 2B or 2C

2B, or not 2B: that is the question.
.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." – Abraham Lincoln

by Bogeyman on Feb 2, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

How about naming each tier after a former player of the same value?

1A – Bruce Smith
2B- Eric Moulds
2C- Cornelius Bennet
3D- Marcelus Wiley
3E- Mark Kelso
4F- Erik Flowers

Or something like that. Perhaps a player everyone is familiar with can help decide what the player being graded is like on the field.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

5Z: Aaron Maybin

Had to

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Feb 2, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Hope

After CJ Spiller, supposedly a can’t miss guy, we can only hope but no assurances on our #1.

by floridamike on Feb 2, 2011 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

These looks at linebacker and tight ends

make me pine for the days of Jeff Posey and Mark Campbell.
We need help at those positions like the desert needs the rain.

Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks

by Dyl on Feb 2, 2011 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

too bad

this piece wasn’t run before the poles. It’s a reminder and underscores the “moves” made to improve this team or lack thereof.
CHIX has added no one to group 1, 2 to group 2 and the remainder (I lost count) are group 3. Furthermore, only 1 draftee (Moats) is rated higher than 3.
And this is a “plan” for rebuilding? Even in the first year of a so called plan, this is pathetic. It’s more like we brought in warm bodies to field a team period.

"The problem with teams that don't draft well is they pick players who suck"- The Adam Bomb

by fansince60 on Feb 2, 2011 1:14 PM EST reply actions  

We can't overturn an entire roster just like that.

You have to field a team with most of the pieces that were given to you by the previous regime.

They MAY have whiffed on Spiller…but as for the other picks, they’re later round picks so of course they’re going to be tier 3 unless they just pounce out of the gate with superstar written all over them.

Next year and especially the year after that, something like this will be an effective referendum on Chan and Buddy.
I don’t like that we have to wait endlessly for a playoff team either, but it has to be done correctly if done at all.

Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks

by Dyl on Feb 2, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with this

but it has to be done correctly if done at all.

And I’m saying it hasn’t been done correctly.

"The problem with teams that don't draft well is they pick players who suck"- The Adam Bomb

by fansince60 on Feb 2, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I may join you in one or two years

But I may not. I hear what you’re saying, but think it’s entirely too soon when none of the picks from year one have even had time to bear fruit yet.

Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks

by Dyl on Feb 2, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say this as a retort: I anticipate a large number of these players changing categories when I apply it after the 2011 season. That means they can move down as well as up. This is a current state, not an always-will-be state.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

And like I said to Dyl in a previous thread – the point of me doing this isn’t to say “this is how you should view so-and-so,” it’s to a) generate discussion and b) allow people to fill in their own little depth chart with their own opinions. I encourage y’all to try it sometime – it can be a surprisingly enlightening experience.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

OK - then in my opinion

you hit the nail on the head. With the dearth of talent on this team, draftees (not necessarily these) shoulda, coulda, woulda made a bigger impact. We certainly could have drafted “2s” out of the gate.
My point is, the ‘10 draft was below average (as indicated here). The #9 pick is a three for heaven’s sake. Will they move over to “2s”? Again, given the state of this team, I think they should have already, so I don’t see them moving up.
Just my (unpopular) opinion.

"The problem with teams that don't draft well is they pick players who suck"- The Adam Bomb

by fansince60 on Feb 2, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The presence of existing talent or in our case lack thereof has probably more to with a rookies success or failue then said rookies talent. With no quality player to mentor them to the pro game they are gonna start slow and perhaps not see a lot of playing time initially. If the guys next to them when the

by Robot Nixon on Feb 2, 2011 4:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

cont

Next to them when they do see the field are sub par it will reflect on their play/development. Williams may be our best player now but he sure wasn’t the year he was drafted. Years of experience have put him there.

by Robot Nixon on Feb 2, 2011 4:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Poz you think isn't at the level of....

Arthur Moats, Dwan Edwards, and Donte Whitner?

I know that Poz has had some difficultly in pass coverage – he isn’t an Elite player – but he is a starter on most 3-4 defenses on the inside in one of the two spots.

That is the only player who I think is undervalued in the list based off last season. 3rd in the NFL in tackles last year, with missing 2 games.

by Bill from LI on Feb 2, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Tackles, when it comes right down to it, are a completely, utterly, totally useless stat.

Poz struggles in coverage from time to time – he’s pretty good in zone – and has trouble shedding blocks in the running game, too. I just don’t think he’s that good. I also think, given the state of that position, that it’s almost imperative that the team bring him back.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

How does this help the team?
I just don’t think he’s that good. I also think, given the state of that position, that it’s almost imperative that the team bring him back.

I would be ok with them bringing Poz back, if its for no longer than 2 years. Our run defense is horrible and Poz is not suited to play the ILB in a 3-4. He wants too much money for his abilities compared to other, better-suited-to-the-position players.

Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 2, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He wants too much money for his abilities compared to other, better-suited-to-the-position players

How do you know that?

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

If he wants the average salary of an ILB in the 3-4...

then he wants too much money for his abilities. Every player in this league believes they are better than they actually are, and they want to be paid according to this belief. Poz is below-average for an ILB in the 3-4, IMO.

Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 2, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I would agree that Poz is slightly undervalued here. I don’t see how Demetrius bell is a more effective T than Poz is an effective LB. I think Poz can go in either group. But I would lean more towards 2.

But, I also believe that Poz is way to overhyped around here. I see him as an truly good player if he has the players around him to let him. He has shown zilch in the way of playmaking ability. He doesn’t really lay lumber. He gets lost in the shuffle a lot. And he can’t cover a TE. But if he has players around him that take up blockers I think he has the brains and tackling ability to cover up his deficiencies.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

But, I also believe that Poz is way to overhyped around here

By whom?

I totally agree with you that he is undervalued here and also agree with you that he can be a good player with others around him. As you said at the end, he has the brains and instincts – and most importantly – tackling ability to be a great piece in a good defense. Throw in his character and he can very well be our own Tedy Bruschi/London Fletcher (wait didnt we use to have one haha). I think Buddy knows this and will resign him. Next step draft Kelvin Sheppard.

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he's over-rated

I get that he’s a “lunch pail” kind of guy which makes him endearing to fans, but its doesn’t help him shed a block.

Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 2, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

its doesn’t help him shed a block.

Neither does the defensive line :)

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, you are a staunch supporter for one :-) . And there are others as well. All I am saying is that he has some real good things about him. But he is only a solid player. He doesn’t have the requirements to be anything more than a good tackler. He doesn’t bring anything else to the table. And that is only if the Bills get guys up front that take up blockers and another LB that can take on a blocker as well. To me, Poz is a guy that is good enough to stick around, but not get anything great out of him. Poz is the Josh Reed of the defense.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

staunch supporter definitely! But I dont hink I overhype him, I know what Poz is and its definitely not Patrick Willis or Brian Urlacher!

Poz is the Josh Reed of the defense.

Arghhh…no nooooo not Josh Reed! Dagger to the heart! :)

Poz is a guy that is good enough to stick around, but not get anything great out of him.

If you look at Antonio Pierce or Tedy Bruschi those guys were essentially in the mold of Poz. Their statistics would point to it as did their play on the field. And yet both turned out to be anchors for championship defenses. Why? They were smart, instinctual, tough, hustlers with supremely strong defensive lines in front of them. I think Poz can be that guy too, dont you?

And yes, I know Im getting waaaay ahead of myself talking about “championship defense” and the “2010 Buffalo Bills defense” haha

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Poz might be that guy if and only if he has the right guys around him to allow him to be that guy. But I don’t think that should make his rating any higher than what it is. A truly talented player can shine despite a poor D-Line. It just seems Poz needs a lot of outside help for him possibly to be great.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough, I just see Donte Whitner in the B group and wonder why he is up there and Poz isn’t.

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Undervalued?

Please tell me that’s a typo, poz…..

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Feb 2, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

on a chart

that has Donte Whitner and Demetrius Bell in the B category? Either Donte and Demetrius have to move down or Poz has to move up in my opinion.

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Why do you have CJ Spiller in group 3?

In your other article you have this:

2-C: This group is comprised of players that will be age 25 or under when the 2011 regular season begins. All of these players have contributed to the team in some fashion in their time in Buffalo; some of those contributions are minor, while others have been extremely significant. Some of these players have elite potential; others could be solid starters; and others might never do another thing for the team.

That sounds EXACTLY like CJ Spiller to me. Is he going to be over 25 when the season begins?

by The Adam Bomb on Feb 2, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

Again: I do not believe Spiller’s contributions have been anywhere close to significant enough to warrant being placed above the third tier. I remain steadfast in my belief that he has elite potential.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess your grading curve is a lot stiffer than mine.

I think his contributions were minor, but not insignificant. And I agree 100% about his elite potential. People were too hard on him for not being an instant impact. He’s gonna be awesome. He’s staying 2-C on my chart :)

by The Adam Bomb on Feb 2, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

People were too hard on him for not being an instant impact.

I don’t think they were. He was a Top 10 pick and a running back. Writing him off entirely is another matter… uh, entirely.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I suppose that's the proper way to think about it.

But I try not to judge rookies too harshly no matter how high they were picked. Some guys can jump right in and others need a period of adjustment. That’s just the way it is. Now that he has a season under his belt, I expect to see some “Top 10” fireworks.

by The Adam Bomb on Feb 2, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

And I agree 100% about his elite potential.

On a team like the Bills, “elite potential” would have meant “wear ’em out” playing time. Didn’t happen.

And as for:

People were too hard on him

I think after reviewing this chart, people are “too easy” on this entire team from owner down.
Excuse after excuse and comments like- “5 year plan” , “inherited a mess”, “Gailey did wonders”, “the potential is there”, “give it time”, “I’m happy with the progress” are all hollow cliches when you digest this piece.

As you said before (and I use for my sig), “The problem with teams that don’t draft well is they pick players who suck”.

There is no better example than this chart. I have a bottle of ketchup nearby to squeeze on my words. But, I don’t think I’ll need it.

"The problem with teams that don't draft well is they pick players who suck"- The Adam Bomb

by fansince60 on Feb 2, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

You sound like.........

a fan of a football team that has sucked for a very long time :)

I stand by my statement, and this chart proves it as you pointed out. I just don’t think CJ Spiller sucks (yet, next season might prove me wrong).

by The Adam Bomb on Feb 2, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

well I hope

I’m wrong….

"The problem with teams that don't draft well is they pick players who suck"- The Adam Bomb

by fansince60 on Feb 2, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm in total agreement

and I’ve also been a fan since 1960. Ralph only stumbles upon talent rather than select it.

prediction for 2010 season is 3 and 13

by jpheff on Feb 2, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

McIntyre

It seems like Corey McIntyre could be a group 2 guy. He’s a fullback, I suppose, but he’s a solid, reliable one who doesn’t need to be replaced.

by silvermike on Feb 2, 2011 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

“He’s a fullback” is precisely why he’s in the third tier for me. His true value lies as a special teams player, and he is quite proficient in that department.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I couldn’t really get my head around that one, or the fact that Garrison Sanborn is in Group 3, either. From everything I remember, you’ve been a fan of Sanborn, and yet he’s in Group 3. I don’t think he’s elite (is there such a thing as an elite long snapper?) but he’s certainly solid and I don’t believe we’re in need of an upgrade. To me, just because the position isn’t as valuable doesn’t mean that the player at that position has any less quality.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 3, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree. I tried this argument when the ratings were first posted, as well. :)

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Feb 3, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Question:

Love the work here, …..on the entire series. And I really appreciate all your hard work, it’s Great!. One thing I don’t understand is your differentiation between WR1 & WR2, as well as CB1 & CB2. Can you clarify that?

by billsfanct on Feb 2, 2011 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks!

In both categories, I put guys in the 1 category if they can be “go-to” – i.e. go-to receiver, or the guy a D asks to shut down a top opponent. Stevie was a go-to guy in 2010. Easley has that type of potential. McGee is still the team’s top corner.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I would move Poz

to group 2

sad list…

"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-

by billsoferie on Feb 2, 2011 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

Garrison Sanborn C????

 Garrison Sanborn is a Group 1 (A) snapper, mvp of the spteams last year

by dMb-SanBourn65 on Feb 2, 2011 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. But he’s a long snapper. He’s on the field for, what – 10 plays per game? Max?

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Byrd

Do you think Byrd has the talent and skill set to be 1A?

by bornbillsfan82 on Feb 2, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope. Will always be a one-dimensional player.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The 5th Dimension

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." – Abraham Lincoln

by Bogeyman on Feb 2, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly, you missed the entire 2009 season. The term “sophomore slump” exists for a reason, and at the very least, Byrd deserves an objective look in his third year.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to know who set this up

Ok I have read all of these grading systems but there is a huge flaw in this. Thats what I call the “Bills Factor”. That factor is the big spot light that is put onto a very good/skilled player surrounded by less than average players. Its been happening for the last decade. Buffalo get a great player, he has an awesome season then the next couple of seasons are poor do to the fact that player stands out in film to other teams. Therefore that player in the following seasons get shutdown by the opposing team. Take a guy like Lee Evans, very talented player but without a a decent QB and passing/rushing attack teams will just shut him down. The same thing has happened to many players on this team thoughout the last ten years. Some of the players above are being judge to harshly do to the fact of the performance of the prevous season and lack of talent on the field (Byrd, Moorman,POZ, Fred Jackson, Wood, and lee evans).

With all this aside i cannot make a vaild point do to the fact i was 8,9,10,11 years old when the bills lost thier superbowls and cried each time. BILLIEVE!!

by bornbillsfan82 on Feb 2, 2011 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

If a player is good enough, he overcomes teams focusing on him. That’s sort of the point of playing football – producing no matter who you’re playing against.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I simply don’t agree. It’s a team game. No player can completely overcome correct scheming by their opponents if there isn’t any other support for that player. It just can’t happen. There’s a difference between a player being talented among other average players and a player being talented among other terrible players that don’t have to be accounted for at all.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 3, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

No player can completely overcome correct scheming by their opponents if there isn’t any other support for that player.

Well, that’s kind of the extreme.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 3, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

producing no matter who you’re playing against

So is this.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 3, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

No it’s not. Not to my view, anyway. That’s what being a consistent professional is about. And “producing” does not necessarily mean “stats.”

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I think one of the problems with a chart like this is that there are no other teams to compare it to, so we can see how really bad/good we are. I know that every fan wants an all pro at every position but there are NO teams that have that. Just look at the 2 superbowl teams, the Steelers offensive line is not very good and the Packers have 18 guys on IR and don’t have a very good run game (yes, Starks is playing well the last few games but for the season they weren’t very good). I think the key for any franchise is to have at least 4 1(A)’s especially at QB on their roster and then surround them with decent role players.

The problem the Bills have is those 1A players the Bills were hoping for can’t live up to there billing. Poz, Whitner, Macargo, Maybin, McKelvin….. and the list goes on and on and on…… And then when we do draft an impact rookie, we have such a lack of overall talent around them that we expect them to be immediate studs. To compound the matter most of them aren’t very good. All teams “miss” on draft picks once in awhile. The problem is the Bills seemed to have missed a lot in the last few years.

by Honestabe75 on Feb 2, 2011 2:52 PM EST reply actions  

This is bang on – and I don’t really understand why it’s indicative of a problem with the chart. Again, the chart is meant only to evaluate the personnel on hand; it’s not meant to be a predictor of success.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t mean it was a problem I was just hoping for some of us on here to step away from the ledge and that we are not that far away. I’m not trying to say we are there yet by any means but I think we are closer than we were a year ago.

by Honestabe75 on Feb 2, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I can realistically see between 7 and 9 current players moving into the 1A and 2B,C categories with solid seasons next year. With a solid draft this year, I think the Bills will have a really great base of young talented players for years to come.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 2, 2011 2:55 PM EST reply actions  

Would hang be in group 2 as a guard?

Never use two drops of the formula. It would cause a reaction on the molecular level that is completely unpredictable.

by J2 on Feb 2, 2011 3:07 PM EST reply actions  

Nope.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I shouldn't do this

But I looked at the barren 1A column and thought about how the Patriots roster would fit into a depth chart like this. It’s somewhat depressing.

by Morningw00d on Feb 2, 2011 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

Brady, Wolfork and who else???? They have a tremendous amount of role players who are put in a great system to win. They actually get rid of their 1A players Moss, Seymour…..

by Honestabe75 on Feb 2, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Mankins. And McCourty and Gronkowski look like they’re well on their way. Their 2 group would be super stacked, as well.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

And I don’t think it’s much of a stretch for Wes Welker to get there again.

by Morningw00d on Feb 2, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

And McCourty and Gronkowski look like they’re well on their way.

So is Stevie J, doesn’t count as a 1A though.

Honestabe’s point still stands. Brady, Wilfork, Welker, Mankins. Thats really it.

1As dont define great teams I’d guess. I mean look at the Texans, their 1A list is bigger than the Pats. Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, Brian Cushing. And they didn’t make the playoffs.

Having a ton of 1Bs with 1As in critical positions would seem more important to me.

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Gary Kubiak is a 4F as a head coach

As is the entire defense

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Feb 2, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The entire defense? Cushing? Ryans? Mario?

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Individual players don't always make a defense good....

The secondary is what is really holding them down, but they never seem to get the job anywhere consistently on D….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Feb 3, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

right

but thats exactly my point. That more B players with some A players is more important than the number of A players. Good teams have lots of B players. The Texans dont

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 3, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I addressed Sanborn in a previous comment.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The entire "State of the Bills Roster" series

which culminated in this chart is an excellent piece of work. I truly believe if OBD was as objective as Brian’s series, we would be on the road to being competitive. More likely, OBD is filled with self delusion and CYA. Under Ralph the Bills have had seasons of 5 or less wins almost 1/3 of their history. Brian’s series and the summary chart is typical of the teams Ralph has historically fielded.

prediction for 2010 season is 3 and 13

by jpheff on Feb 2, 2011 7:04 PM EST reply actions  

so Brian...

you got a couple 100 million lying around to buy a football team?

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a couple hundred that I’m trying desperately not to blow on my PS3. Does that count?

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahahahahaha, its a start

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember a comment you once made....

Yes, I did receive a PS3 from my wedding registry :)

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Feb 2, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

… that is epic.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 3, 2011 6:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Appreciate the kind words.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 2, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Guys this isnt as sad as your all making it out to be. Yes, yes I realize that we only have on 1A guy. But please lets acknowledge that we have more 1B’s and C’s then you’d expect from a team that finished 4-12 and has the third pick in the draft.

I think this is very very good to see for a team that just finished the first year of a rebuild. Stevie, Jairus, Wood, Levitre, Leo, Moats all have VERY good chances to move up in coming seasons to a higher category. Throw in that I think Poz is devalued here and potentially that Merriman and McGee should be in a higher class if they are healthy and I’m a bit encouraged by this chart. Add yet again that guys like Carrington, Troup, Batten and Easley also too have the chance to move up this is not such an eye sore. We are young.

Embrace the youth movement Rumblers!

Nice way to organize a depth chart BG, looks snazzy too!

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Feb 2, 2011 7:04 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Brian, what say you do a similar chart for the Super Bowl winner next week… It would give us a successful team to compare against and give us better perspective on the level…ahem…LETTER of talent needed

by Nepenthe88 on Feb 2, 2011 10:04 PM EST reply actions  

Ahem… one step ahead of you.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 3, 2011 6:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Excellent chart

You can instantly see the big holes (LB, DE and the right side of the line). Turning it 90’ on its side, and you could actually graph it to look like a group of holes.

by FrankL on Feb 2, 2011 10:19 PM EST reply actions  

Sanborn

I agree with the comments about Sanborn. In the criteria for 1A, it said that the player must be “elite at his craft”. Despite Sanborn only playing 10 plays per game, he performs his role/craft at an elite level. I could easily see him in Tier 1 or 2.

Our biggest problem is the lack of tier 2 linebackers and offensive linemen. An elite, or at least serviceable, offensive line would greatly impact Spiller’s ability to become tier 1 or 2. Hopefully we can add to our tier 2 depth via the drat and free agency.

by tarvismonroe on Feb 3, 2011 2:59 AM EST reply actions  

eh

this is not too shocking. we all pretty much knew that the talent on this team is lacking, yet for some reason people dont want 1-a talent like green and peterson on this team still, baffling.

Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.

by silverstreak3k on Feb 3, 2011 3:10 AM EST reply actions  

Where is

Aaron Maybin? I don’t see him in the chart haha

by BMWdrummerman777 on Feb 3, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

He’s in the 4-F group with a whole bunch of other guys that aren’t great.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Feb 3, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Ohhh

That would make sense haha

by BMWdrummerman777 on Feb 3, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions  

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