Bowers vs. Quinn - NFL.COM Scout's Take

I think I've been very clear on how much I love Robert Quinn as a prospect. In this video segment, Bucky Brooks breaks down the tape of these tow guys to offer his opinion on which one is the better pass rusher.

I love Quinn because of how awesome he is when it comes to using his hands against blockers and his speed and burst for a guy his size. But Bowers is bigger and stronger and explosive himself. In my humble opinion, this might be the biggest positional draft debate - including over Newton vs. Gabbert and Peterson vs. Amukamara.

about 1 year ago poz 22 comments 0 recs |

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Win Win situation

I too , preferr Quinn even though he didn’t play last year. Bigger and stronger can still be had in this draft in the second and third round if free agency can’t help us.

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by VanScottM on Apr 1, 2011 5:24 AM EDT reply actions

Versatility settles it for me

Quinn could play both 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE; Bowers is limited to DE, and he would be undersized in a 3-4 scheme. Quinn makes good sense for the Bills. Bowers does not make sense at all in my view.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions

If Bowers is undersized for a 3-4 scheme, it’s only slightly. Shorter arms than you’d like, but that’s about it.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 1, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s also 275 lbs. at the moment. In a 3-4 DE you ideally want 285 or 290. Perhaps he could put on more weight, but would that impact his speed? Beyond that he is also less explosive than Quinn and, perhaps most important of all, there are major questions about his durability. It’s not just the recent injury — he has been plagued with them throughout his college career. If both are on the board and I’m Buddy Nix I would go with Quinn (that is a nice choice to have).

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s also 275 lbs. at the moment. In a 3-4 DE you ideally want 285 or 290

I think ideally you want at least a 300 pounder who has long enough arms to cover 2 gaps or eat up two blockers. Ideally in a traditional 3-4 you want both your DEs and NT to be able to cover two gaps or two blockers so LBs can roam free to make tackles or blitz, and that is hard to get in today’s NFL with so many teams using 3-4 defenses thus the 3-4 over under variations become more prevalent to adjust for lack of solid 2 gap players.

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by The Buffalo Kid on Apr 1, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

Perhaps 10 years ago a DE could be 275-290. However I feel today’s 3-4 DE is much, much bigger.

by DJ O on Apr 3, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Mack, I hold the same opinion as you do as long as OBD views Quinn as a viable OLB. I don’t want him playing OLB if he covers like Kelsay. That said, Quinn would allow the Bills to Flex between 3-4 and 4-3 without changing personnel.

If Quinn is not viewed as a viable option at OLB, I like the idea of getting Bigger and Stronger. And although Bowers might have weighed 276, he has the build to carry 290 without any problem. He also has great instincts. I hate to think it, but he reminds me of Bruce Smith when he crashes down the line to catch RBs running away from him.

by WhatGoesAround on Apr 1, 2011 1:21 PM EDT reply actions

The general opinion is that Quinn will have no trouble playing OLB, and the drills he did at his pro day seem to bear that out. How good he would be in coverage is an open and a very good question, though. You never know for sure with these college DE’s converting to LB.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't see Bowers vs Quinn as a good apples to apples comparison

Bowers vs Jordan….yes…..Quinn vs Miller….yes

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

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by Joe P. on Apr 1, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions

I look at it similarly… Bowers/Jordan… Quinn/Aldon Smith… Miller by himself.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 1, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I see your point, putting Miller by himself, but

I don’t see Smith in the conversation at #3. With Quinn, you get a 4-3 DE who can play OLB. He may struggle some in coverage. But when you watch him hit the dummies at the combine drills, it his clear he has much more power as a rusher than Miller.

With Miller, you get a OLB who can play DE some in 4-3 looks. I think Miller would be much better in coverage and blitzing from the OLB position.

If healthy, I still think Bowers is going to be a beast of a 3-4 DE. I would really like to know if he is going to need micro fracture surgery. Do these types of surgeries have different degrees of severity? Maybe it is because Stroud was never the same player after his surgery, but I am concerned about Bowers need for this kind of surgery already.

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 1, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Im looking at them as pass rushers

In my opinion they are the top two in this draft. If I were a 4-3 team looking for a defensive end, they would be at the top of the list. As a 3-4 team, I think Quinn translates better to the scheme.

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by poz on Apr 1, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions

not sure I agree...see above

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 1, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions

interesting

two points of yours interest me.

The first is Bowers being a beast 3-4 DE because I tend to agree but I still think that makes him a pass rusher. I just think Quinn translates better because in a 3-4 he’d be pass rushing from a more natural “Sic em” role while Bowers would be trying to do it in a more unique way – I still think he’d be able to do it though.

More interesting to me is that you think Von Miller would play DE in a 4-3. I haven’t heard this before and I’ve always seen him as a 4-3 OLB who can rush the passer like a Julian Peterson in his prime kind of way. You see Miller as a 4-3 DE?

i’m sure i’m going to regret this conversation… but what the hell - J2

by poz on Apr 1, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions

If the Bills take Miller would be as a 3-4 OLB

but I think he could see some snaps as a 4-3 DE. It wouldn’t be his strength and would most likely line up wide….basically like a 3-4 OLB with his hand in the dirt.

As far as Bowers goes, I think his pass rush ability translates well as a 3-4 DE…he has lots of power with very good speed. He can push the pocket, fight off the block, and accelerate to the QB. But, Bowers also plays the run well. He has the strength to anchor and set the edge. This is why I like him so much for the Bills….fixes two of our biggest problems with one player.

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 1, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions

As far as Bowers goes, I think his pass rush ability translates well as a 3-4 DE

First off, let me say I like Bowers, but I don’t think his pass rush ability translates well to a 3-4 DE. A 3-4 DEs job is to eat space and blockers to keep LBs clean to fill and make tackles.

When I played football, I played RDE and my responsibilities were if the TE was on my side, to get a piece of both the OT and TE, to keep the TE off the LBs, and if there wasn’t a TE on my side, to set the edge by getting upfield a little and turn a run back to the inside, and if it was a pass, then I could go for the QB once I recognized it when the TE wasn’t on my side, DE in a 3-4 is a spot where you take out blockers so LBs can make plays, at least in a traditional 3-4.

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by The Buffalo Kid on Apr 1, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions

True....but the idea with Bowers is that he can do both

Bowers has a very strong lower body. He will need to put on a few pounds, but I don’t see that as an issue. He will probably never be a 300 lb DE, but he can be a 285 lb DE who has pass rush ability to along with run stuffing ability.

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 1, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions

In a 3-4

He would have to be a space eater first, pass rusher 2nd. I think his pass rushing ability translates much better to a 4-3 than a 3-4. Personally I wish we would just quit on this 3-4 change and take him if he doesn’t need micro fracture surgery. He would be an upgrade at DE over Schobel in a 4-3.

But his pass rushing ability would be wasted at DE in a 3-4 unless he is strong enough to overpower OTs on a bull rush. He would be much more valuable as a pass rusher in our nickle an dime packages.

Same goes for Miller, I think he will be not so good as run stopper as a 3-4 OLB. I think he would thrive as a wil in a 4-3, speed to cover, doesn’t have to worry about getting washed out in a 4-3 by pulling guards as much as a 3-4. Will be a monster on stunts in a 4-3. Too many teams are using the 3-4, that is why there is so much high quality available for the 4-3 now than when only 5 teams were using the 3-4. It’s really a shame we are pursing this 3-4 switch, when now is the time to be building a 4-3. The Bills brain trust are like Maybin and Whitner, a step behind and a day late.

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by The Buffalo Kid on Apr 1, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Does it really matter what we call our base D ?

The offenses in the NFL is to complex to not be able to run both. Being able to play multiple fronts is the future and the future is now. Sure, Bowers can be a pass rushing DE in a 4-3 and will have better numbers too. I don’t care about his numbers. I think he does have the power to handle OTs, but as someone who engages with power and slips blocks with speed.

And I agree that Miller is not going to be a run stuffer. He will need to make plays with his speed in both the running and passing game.

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 1, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I think it does.

Does it really matter what we call our base D ?

We have Buddy saying we are drafting for a 3-4, while Chan says we will be running a hybrid.

To me that means we are going for a traditional 3-4 with DEs and a NT who are all 2 gap players, but will use the over and under until that personnel is in place because Gailey thinks it gives us the best chance to win for now.

I think Nix is shooting for a traditional 3-4 where our nickle package is a 3-3-5 and our dime package is a 3-2-6.

Girls use hair spray, Men don't.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!

Don't be a Paully!

by The Buffalo Kid on Apr 2, 2011 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions

I hope not....

I seem to remember one of them saying you had to be able to run multiple fronts in today’s NFL. I agree. Ideally, how much 3-4 or 4-3 you run should depend on your opponents strengths and game plan. CHIX defensive draft last year indicates to me they want players who are athletic and versatile enough to play in both systems.

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 2, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Bowers ability to play 3-4 or 4-3

“That’s what’s very attractive about him — 3-4, 4-3 [defense] — everyone’s interested in him,” Dimitroff said. “Versatility along the front in this league is key for being drafted high.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14888777/bowers-satisfied-but-questions-linger-after-clemson-workout

Anyone but Cam Newton at #3

"Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one"

by Joe P. on Apr 2, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions