Cameron Jordan And The Bills: Dan Kadar's Take

by Brian Galliford on Apr 1, 2011 4:00 PM EDT in 2011 NFL Draft

This post is part of a continuing series in which we break down 13 2011 NFL Draft prospects - our Baker's Dozen - that should interest the Buffalo Bills. Keep up to date on our Baker's Dozen series here.

Yesterday, we spent some time with Dan Kadar of MockingTheDraft.com discussing Clemson defensive end Da'Quan Bowers and his fit with the Bills. Given the fact that Bowers was less than satisfactory at his pro day, and the theory that the Bills are still looking for defensive ends that can do more than simply stuff the run (though that would be nice too), it seemed timely to ask Dan about a player perceived to be a safer prospect - Cal's Cameron Jordan.

I asked Dan three simple questions about Jordan in relation to yesterday's Bowers piece. He graciously sent us some opinions to chew on despite the fact that he's an extremely busy dude. Our conversation appears after the jump.

BG: Yesterday, you compared Bowers and Jordan, saying that Bowers is a bit quicker in his base. What advantages does Jordan have over Bowers?

DK: The best advantage Jordan has over Bowers is that he's been playing in a 3-4 system already. He's also more experienced in general. So in Jordan, you'd get a player who can probably make a more immediate impact than Bowers, but doesn't have quite as high of a ceiling.

BG: Is Jordan capable of providing the same scheme flexibility alongside Kyle Williams that Bowers does (theoretically)?

DK: For the most part. He might not be as good as Bowers rushing the passer, but he's just as good holding the edge against the run.

BG: Is there any reasonable argument that can be made for taking Jordan over Bowers? In the Top 5?

DK: The only argument that that seems plausible is Bowers' injury situation. The rumor now is that he may need microfracture surgery. That could be a big risk for a team to take on. With the Bills really needing to hit with the third pick, that could cause them to view Jordan as a safer player. Still, though, it's hard to imagine him being taken in the top five.

We're less than four weeks away from the start of the 2011 NFL Draft. Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to get the feeling that if the Bills stay at No. 3 overall, there's really only one defensive lineman worthy of being picked that early - and the odds of him being available are slim to none.

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..“there’s really only one defensive lineman worthy of being picked that early – and the odds of him being available are slim to none.”

Dareus?

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by Michael_Necci on Apr 1, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions

That would be my guess.

But we’ll have to wait for Brian to respond. Personally I think that he is likely to be there at 3.

by Boogie on Apr 1, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Only if Denver trades down, I’d say

by dgrid on Apr 1, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes, Dareus.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 1, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I think so too.

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by kgun201 on Apr 1, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

So if Dareus is gone would that mean we’d take Gabbert or Newton by default? Von Miller? Best available would be those guys then…

by 41Meuller on Apr 1, 2011 4:07 PM EDT reply actions

I don’t think you would ever take a QB by default at #3.

I feel it’s going to be Von Miller more and more each day.

by Pistol on Apr 1, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

…but I would’ve said the same thing about a RB last year.

by 41Meuller on Apr 1, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Best guesses/hunches/consensus

I think Dareus is going to be gone at #2 to Denver. I haven’t heard his name linked to Carolina much – I think they’re going to go for either AJ Green or Cam Newton. If Newton’s gone, and Dareus goes #2, I’m willing to bet we take Von Miller. If Newton’s on the board, then I’m not going to lay any bets at all.

by silvermike on Apr 1, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions

Really losing faith in these D-Line prospects

I just dont think Cameron Jordan at 3. If only this was the class when we picked maybin, Jordan might’ve still been around at #11. I love it when Brian gives us a little something extra to munch on even if its painfully obvious who his favorite is(Dareus).

All of the D-Line prospects are very attractive and I can confide in the Bills staff if they were to pick one. With all of the question marks that surrond each one I find it tough to believe the Bills will take any of them besides the aformentioned Dareus. At #3 the Bills need a guy that is a FRANCHISE CHANGER. A lot of these guys seem like they are going to be anywhere from serviceable to great but, I don’t see ELITE.
Does anyone believe that any of these D-Line prospects are going to be the best player from this draft?

by BuFFaL0nian on Apr 1, 2011 4:41 PM EDT reply actions

How does Dan Kadar know that Bowers will be better than Jordan?

The answer is that he doesn’t. No one can predict with certainty that five years from now it will be apparent that Bowers is a better NFL player than Jordan, or vice-versa. Kadar spends a lot of time looking at tape and is well-respected, but so isn’t Rob Rang who wrote two days ago that Bowers is “overrated” and that he “lacks the quick-twitch burst off the snap that typically translates to double-digit sacks in the NFL. Without stout defensive tackles running a variety of stunts and twists to free him up in the NFL — as 2011 defensive tackle prospect Jarvis Jenkins dd at Clemson — I’d be surprised if Bowers ever reaches 10 sacks in a 16-game NFL season.”

My point is that there is no way to ever know who is right. Not even the Bills scouting staff itself can forecast for sure how well a prospect will do (their expectations on Spiller fell far short last year, and they completely whiffed on Ed Wang). That’s why I think it is ridiculous to split hairs over these prospects. It makes a lot more sense to compose a list of ten or twelve who are good enough for the Bills to take with their first pick and leave it at that. If they want a DE, Bowers would certainly be on that list, as would Jordan and J. J. Watts.

All of this is a further reason why they should trade down, since the person they would get at pick #7 or #8 could easily turn out in the end to be better than the guy they would have selected at #3. Who knows? The answer: no one.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

rec'd...

All of this is a further reason why they should trade down, since the person they would get at pick #7 or #8 could easily turn out in the end to be better than the guy they would have selected at #3. Who knows? The answer: no one.

I agree, but the more and more we hear that we should trade down, I don’t think there will be any dancing partners for us because Newton will be off the board to Carolina (a strong guess here…) why would another team want to trade up that much for any other position other than QB… the value is too much to give up, unless it is a franchise QB… I don’t think Gabbert would demand that kind of value to another team.

by dabillsr1 on Apr 1, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions

In that scenario I suspect people who want Gabbert might be willing to trade up.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

and they completely whiffed on Ed Wang).

don’t you mean kyle calloway? :)

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by J2 on Apr 1, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually, I mean both.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Wait, so what did Rang say about Jordan?

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@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Apr 1, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

He didn’t comment on him in that article, but in his prospect write-ups he gives Jordan a mixed review. Seems to like J. J. Watt better. Of course, it’s not hard to find other draft experts who will tell you that Jordan is much better than Watt. I think they are all exceptional football players and the Bills would be just fine taking any of them — although I really am beginning to worry about Bower’s current medical problem.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions

the draft is a crap shoot, we all know this. that wont stop buddy and chan from picking out the guy they like the best and grabbing him at #3. i believe it would take a rare set of circumstances from them to move.

by boomsauce on Apr 1, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s where I might criticize them. If they do that I think they would be falling for the self-delusion that afflicts so many NFL GM’s and HC’s that they can make fine disciminations between who is worthy of a #3 pick and who is merely worthy of being, say, #8. The teams that do best are the ones headed by guys like Belichick who understand it’s all a crap shoot and have no illusions about it.

by Macktruck on Apr 1, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions

draft pick value is all about how OTHER TEAMS value the player

because if you know you wouldnt have any trouble getting a guy alittle further back, then you should do everything you can to trade back, but not far enough that you might miss out on all your targets

MAYBE this will break the mold , we need to come to play sunday and this year we will not SURRENDER TO KNOW ONE THIS IS BUFFALOOO Godzilla nation
-abayarde

by uPitt_BillsFan on Apr 1, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Bowers

Isn’t really an edge rusher, he plays with more power than that. Jared Allen doesn’t have the typical speed of an elite sack artist, but he makes plays with his power. Osi Umenyiora is another example. I think Bowers has the skill set, but he won’t have 10+ sacks as a 5-Tech… How productive he as a pass rusher is may ultimately depend entirely on how he is used schematically

by astrazz2 on Apr 1, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions

How does one measure a player’s ceiling?

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by chaucer on Apr 1, 2011 6:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Is it based on a player’s ability/skills in relation to his age?

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Apr 1, 2011 6:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Even then, i’m not sure there is an exact tangible way to measure potential

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Apr 1, 2011 6:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

peterson and darius

Go one and two, Cam looks like the best option to me

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-Steve Tasker-

by billsoferie on Apr 1, 2011 7:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

For me, its hard to say if so and so arn’t there take a QB… If the Bills think Newton can be an elite QB, take him no matter who is there. If they don’t, pass him up. I don’t think the draft ahead of us will dictate whether or not we take him

by astrazz2 on Apr 1, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Im not sure

There are still many excellent prospects not on offense, like Miller or Quinn that look very good at 3

I'm waitin'..... @killascript on twitter

by killascript on Apr 2, 2011 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions

id take Quinn over Miller

Quinn fits the versitility bill that Chan and Nix seem to think they need. If we were only a 34 team, Miller looks better

"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-

by billsoferie on Apr 2, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

The more hype that’s built up around potential draft players, the more I waiver as to what CHIX will do. I went from Cam being a shoe-in for #3 to now, given all the NFL Analyst (aka “lobbyists”) hype, to thinking we’ll be goin’ “D” with the first and QB with the 2nd.

If they choice “D” with the first, I definitely have a strong feeling they like Ponder for their 2nd pick – if that’s the case, I’m starting to believe what Brian was saying that he might not be around, given his rising stock and the 11 or so teams in need of a QB. If Ponder’s the guy they know they want for our 2nd pick, I wonder if conservative Buddy would actually move up in order to secure him.

by RockyMTBillsFan on Apr 2, 2011 1:52 AM EDT reply actions

Trade up

If the stories from last year are true, that the Bills tried to trade back up into the first, then I would see that scenario more likely this year than my preference of trading down from 3. If they’re really sold on a QB I hope they go get him either way, and wouldnt be upset either way.

by buffaloparks on Apr 2, 2011 2:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

My trade down scenario

Von Miller and Marcel Dareus are both off the board. Chan and Buddy, in that situation, should already be fielding calls from QB-needy teams wanting their guy (be it Cam or Blaine). Michael Lombardi was on Rich Eisen’s podcast this week saying Cincinatti would 100% take a QB at 4. That leaves Arizona, Washington, and Minnesota trying to leapfrog Cincy to get their QB. With that kind of bidding war Buddy should get a King’s ransom for #3.

This is under the assumption that the Bills aren’t sold on either Gabbert or Newton, one which I personally believe.

If we can’t trade out of three in this scenario, its got to be Patrick Peterson. Cleanest player in the draft with the exception of maybe A.J. Green.

Regarding Cam Jordan, I’d love to grab him at 10-15 if we can trade down, but not at 3.

by Saint Patrick on Apr 2, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions

Cam Jordan

If the Bills like Cam Jordan as much as some of the Rumblers do, than whats the big deal if they take him at #3. Most of the so called experts say its too early. Who cares, if you like the guy and feel he is the best DE then why not take him

by Winnie33 on Apr 2, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions