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Bills Draft Gems, No. 8: DE Aaron Schobel

With the 2011 NFL Draft quickly approaching, we thought it'd be a good idea to run down the Buffalo Bills' ten biggest draft successes and failures. I decided at the last minute to make this an "of my lifetime" series, meaning that the only busts and gems that you'll see listed here every day were picked in 1985 or after.

I'll re-iterate something I said when talking about Buffalo's No. 1 draft bust, OT Mike Williams: Tom Donahoe really did get off to a good start in his tenure as Bills GM. His crowning draft achievement was selecting TCU defensive end Aaron Schobel in the second round of the 2001 NFL Draft.

Schobel, who retired prior to the start of the 2010 season after nine seasons as a pro, left the game as Buffalo's second-ranked sack artist in team history, trailing only Hall of Fame end Bruce Smith. Other than a 2008 season in which he was injured, Schobel appeared in 16 games per season, and never recorded fewer than 6.5 sacks in any of those fully healthy seasons. He finished his career with 78 sacks (fitting) and two Pro Bowl appearances.

Though he never made the post-season with Buffalo, and was not the big-game or big-play artist that makes legends, there's little doubt that Schobel was a consistent producer and a durable worker - a light during a period of great darkness for this franchise. For that, we salute him.

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Number 8 >.>

by aquias on Apr 20, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

a light during a period of great darkness for this franchise. For that, we salute him

I thought to myself reading this quote: "Please, oh please, let us NOT be saying this about Kyle Williams in a few years.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Apr 20, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

I have a feeling that we’ll be saying “he was the first star of a successful franchise” in a few years.

Optimistic? Perhaps just a tad. But I’m rolling with it.

by maestro110584 on Apr 20, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I know Ill get killed here...

But I was never a huge Schobel fan. He was good, but I think we overrated him as a fan base. We gave him a lot of money and he did put up numbers… but just never really seemed to be a game changer. maybe thats because of our abysmal 2000’s as a team… but I just never felt he was dominate.

He was solid. Averaged 8.5 sacks a year for a decade, so that is good. But still just never really got on the Schobel Train.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Plus I wasnt a fan of the way he handled last year...

He took forever and kept mulling over retirement or coming back.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

He had to be accounted for, he was the guy that the QB checked as soon as the huddle broke, he got the most attention. I think he was borderline dominant, a gamechanger in the least.

"Jay Park is cool, he just says stupid things..."~All Jay Park's friends

by HurricaneJay on Apr 20, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like Adam Bomb said below...

Of course he was checked first, we werent a very a good D, and he was the DE on the blind side. He gets looked at first in a 4-3 D by default.

Again, I know he had his numbers, and they were good. But I cant remember a game that he actually changed. Where his play was teh difference in us winning and losing. He’d pick up 3 sacks vs a bad Dolphins team, go 3 weeks without a sack. Then get two more in a blowout loss in the 4th quarter. All of a sudden thats 5 sacks in 5 games, looks good… but in reality, its not that great when you break down when they came.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do remember a game schobel won...

and it counted too (i think?) It was a miami game and it was the year T edwards played well at the beginning, so we were alive at the time. anyway miami needed the TD at the end of the forth to win and it was forth and goal and shobel affected the QB’s throw that missed its mark.

just sayin’

gobills!

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Apr 20, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

D'oh!

good thing I put the, “I think” in there! I remember that play though as I am a schobel detractor and he shut me up that day….
different year then, thanks for straightening me out!

gobills!

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Apr 20, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, its all good.

Just wanted to let ya know.

Youre from Owego? I went to highschool in Waverly.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I went to high school in Corning not to far Waverly.

by brucesmithistheman on Apr 20, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schobel had a couple of real game-changing plays in the 2009 opener against the Pats. That’s a game we should’ve won, if it weren’t for Leo’s poor judgement.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator

by BuffaloBlueBlood on Apr 20, 2011 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes he had a nice play in the 1st quarter.

Rushed Brady, tipped it up, pick-6.

But a pass rush in the 4th when Brady lead them down field to bring it within 5 would have been huge.

Again, Im not saying he never made plays… because he has. But I think as a whole, his career was overrated.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he blasted Brady on a nice solo sack during that game too, but I hear what you’re saying.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator

by BuffaloBlueBlood on Apr 20, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think he’s at least an above-average pass rusher. How else to you collect 78 sacks while on mostly mediocre teams?

To use what Brian said in another thread in this context, “I’d piss myself with glee” if we found another above average player like Schobel in the 2nd this year.

Give this a listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjdkc14-zwQ

by NordicBillsfan on Apr 20, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never was a big fan either

It always seemed to me like he was the best loser on the farm team. Other teams had to game plan for Schoebel only because they didn’t have to game plan for anyone else.

That said, I’ll concede that he was a great pass rusher, the sack numbers don’t lie.

Brian, you can tell me to shut up about Eric Moulds anytime, but Schoebel makes this list and Moulds does not? Most of the time I can’t argue with your logic, but on this one I’m gonna have to agree to disagree. Moulds was a way better pick than Schoebel.

by The Adam Bomb on Apr 20, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

schobel.....

it seems like I saw RBs gain 10,000 yds, running thru the hole that schobel vacated 1000 times.
he was better than average pass rusher though……

gobills!

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Apr 20, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was overrated and underrated at the same time

I was never a huge fan of Schobel or his ability, and said as much on here numerous times. He was a solid pass rusher, but many on here thought he was elite because of the sack numbers. Those were good/great numbers, but the impact was never truly there. He was never a consistent threat and disappeared for stretches at a time. Then he would pick up sacks in bunches. The consistent pressure was just not there. And that contract he signed was just awful, though that’s all on the Bills. It was a totally unnecessary and ridiculous deal, something he wasn’t going to live up to at his age and skill level.

On the other hand, many people were critical of his ability in run support. He was constantly criticized in that area, yet I thought he was quite good there. For a guy his size, he sure did a fine job of setting the edge and turning stuff back inside. He also made plays in the backfield pretty often. Many of Kelsay’s run issues were blamed on Schobel IMO. The numbers over at Football Outsiders over the years showed how good Schobel was in the run game.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 20, 2011 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

2001 draft....

clearly one of the best bills drafts ever. first five picks – nate clements, aaron schobel, travis henry, ron edwards and jonas jennings. that’s one hell of a draft!

and then, donahoe hired……who was it? oh yeah, tom modrak.

probably just a ten year coincidence.

I kid, I kid. Tom’s a football super genius!

gobills!

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Apr 20, 2011 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Schobel

And now that we know he didn’t get out of Buffalo with millions I can actually reflect on his career with a positive perspective ;-)

"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards

"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix

by Jason from OH-IO on Apr 20, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Schobel

is the most underrated Buffalo Bill in a long time.

I loved watching him play and he WAS dominant. He was a hell of a pass rusher. He just didnt have the swagger to jump up and down and roar and dance like a fool every time he made a play so no one thought he was a playmaker. He absolutely was a playmaker and his numbers playing for an awful team that was constantly behind and getting rushed on reflects it.

Great choice. Schobel was a great Bill.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Apr 20, 2011 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

he was not dominant in any way

And that was the problem. He was paid to be dominant, but never was a guy to get consistent pressure on the QB. He piled up sack numbers by being relentless, not by dominating OT’s.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 20, 2011 1:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

what does it matter how he got it?

thats outrageous. I dont care if he got his sacks on the QB by overpowering linemen or by relentlessly giving his all to get there. The man got to the QB and made an impact on games.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Apr 20, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he didn't "dominate"

He never consistently provided a strong pass rush, so I don’t know how he can be considered dominant. Racking up sacks and being dominant don’t have to be the same thing.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 20, 2011 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

he did indeed provide a consistent pass rush

take away his injured year and he averaged nearly 10 sacks a year. In the fours years that were arguably his prime he averaged over 11 sacks a year from 03 to 06. How is that not consistent? How is that not a strong pass rush? You don’t have to be a freak athlete to dominate a sport. He played at the NFL level and was a consistent sack artist, thats pretty dominant at the game of football.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Apr 20, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to forget he did this all with little to no help on the defensive line.

Give this a listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjdkc14-zwQ

by NordicBillsfan on Apr 20, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

and almost always playing from behind when the other team was running the ball.

Not to mention I dont know what kind of big plays people expected a guy who was on a team that never got to the playoffs was going to make.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Apr 20, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said above.
He’d pick up 3 sacks vs a bad Dolphins team, go 3 weeks without a sack. Then get two more in a blowout loss in the 4th quarter. All of a sudden thats 5 sacks in 5 games, looks good… but in reality, its not that great when you break down when they came.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you're not telling the whole story

and you are using selective memory to fit how you remember the man.

Last year in the first four weeks he had 3 sacks in four games with each coming in a different game.

Last year only one game did he have more than one sack, the rest coming throughout the season.

In 2006 he had a sack in week 5, a sack in week 6, 2 sacks in week 7, bye week 8, 2 sacks in week 9, one sack in week 11, half a sack in week 12, one sack in week 13, three sacks in week 14, half a sack in week 15, a sack in week 16. He didnt get to the quarterback in only 4 games in that season.

In 2005, he started the first half of the season slow with only 2 sacks before going one sack, two sacks, two sacks, no sack, one sack, one sack, one sack, no sack, two sacks, no sack from week 7 to 17.

In 2003, he got to the quarterback in 9 games.

Obviously he had seasons where he got the QB less but in his prime Aaron Schobel was a dominant pass rusher who consistently got after QBs and who produced over a long stretch.

but in reality, its not that great when you break down when they came.

In reality, he had them come in stretches when he was young and when he was aging. In his prime he was in the QBs face almost every single game.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Apr 20, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question

What is the difference between relentless and consistent?

"Jay Park is cool, he just says stupid things..."~All Jay Park's friends

by HurricaneJay on Apr 20, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is the difference between relentless and consistent?

He was consistently relentless…

You drank beer, you played golf, you watched football - WE EVOLVED!

Frank Zappa

by Goose22 on Apr 20, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

which is why he ended up with 78 sacks, they cant convince me that he didnt come close on many other tries.

"Jay Park is cool, he just says stupid things..."~All Jay Park's friends

by HurricaneJay on Apr 20, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok good break down...

But my main point, way up top of the post, how this whole argument got started, was he was never a game changer. His sacks never came in a “We need a stop here to win” moment. Now I also admitted maybe this is due to the fact that we have been less than good that past decade…

Again, he had good numbers, but I never saw him as an absolute game changer.

Lets Go Buff a lo!!!

by bflo on Apr 20, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a defensive play-maker that made his share of plays only to see others make bonehead plays or not make plays at all. He wasn’t Bruce (nobody is) but he gave his all and contributed each and every game. The Bills didn’t have to worry about him taking plays off.

You drank beer, you played golf, you watched football - WE EVOLVED!

Frank Zappa

by Goose22 on Apr 20, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schobel

I don’t consider sacks and getting consistent pressure the same thing. He consistently put up 10 sacks, which was great, but can you honestly say he was providing consistent pressure every week? He would disappear for long stretches even though there’s nothing to quantify that. I wish the NFL kept QB pressures stats instead of just sacks.

Piling up sacks just doesn’t fully tell a story. Just like grabbing 8 INT’s doesn’t mean a DB is a dominant cover guy or running for 10 TD’s doesn’t mean a RB is dominant or catching 80 passes doesn’t mean a WR dominated DB’s. Its part of the story, and hardly accounts for a guy who disappears for long stretches. There were so many times where we’d forget that Schobel was even on the field, especially when a sack would have been huge. He was a good player, but to call him dominant just isn’t fair to the players who actually were dominant, like Bruce Smith or DeMarcus Ware, for example.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 20, 2011 2:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

dominant doesnt mean hes equal to Bruce or Ware

Being a Hall of Famer is well above dominant. Being a Hall of Famer is being a legend, a man who changed the game and re-defined. Being dominant is being superior to the opposition you faced almost every time, which Schobel was.

Schobel in his prime owned the offensive lineman he went against on a near weekly basis.

just like grabbing 8 INT’s doesn’t mean a DB is a dominant cover guy or running for 10 TD’s doesn’t mean a RB is dominant or catching 80 passes doesn’t mean a WR dominated DB’s.

A DB who grabs 8 interceptions a year is ABSOLUTELY dominant. You are talking like Schobel had one good year. Hes had 14 sacks, 12 sacks, 11.5 sacks,10 sacks, 8.5 sacks, 8.0 sacks, 6.5 sacks and 6.5 sacks. One of those 6.5 sacks came his rookie year when he started 11 games. Thats all 8 of his healthy seasons. Schobel wasn’t a one time deal. He was dominant in his prime and a great player throughout.

Bruce Smith was a legend of the game. They are different.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Apr 20, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess we have different ideas about who dominant players are....

And what it actually means to be a dominant player.

Would you say Jairus Byrd or OJ Atogwe were dominant defenders during their big seasons? I know I wouldn’t.

As I said, Schobel was very good, but there is no way that he was owning offensive linemen on a weekly basis. Wouldn’t he have had more games with a sack? He had 63 games, out of 133, with at least half a sack. 54 of those games he had at least one sack. Very good, but hardly dominant. 48.5 of his 78 sacks were in games decided by at least 2 scores, so how critical were his sacks? He had more than 1 sack in 16 of 133 career games. He had 4 double digit sack seasons, and forced 21 fumbles.

A guy like DeMarcus Ware has at least half a sack in 58 of 96 career games. He has 80 sacks in 96 games! He already has 17 games with more than 1 sack. He’s had double digit sacks his last five seasons (he’s played 6 years) and has forced 25 fumbles. That’s a dominant pass rusher, IMO.

Schobel was a statistically sound pass rusher, putting up solid numbers every year, for the most part. Watching him play, he never wowed with the eye test.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 21, 2011 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dam Good........

A definite blue collar player that the Bills fans should appreciate—-nothing fancy just a dam good football player.

I’d compare him to Phil Hanson but Phil got to play with Bruce, With Aaron’s pass rushing skills if he had played with #78 he might have been racking up 15 sacks a season.

You drank beer, you played golf, you watched football - WE EVOLVED!

Frank Zappa

by Goose22 on Apr 20, 2011 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Good solid player

I loved Show-bull as a Bill. Not a HOFer, but if our defense was full of consistent, productive players like him when he played, we would not be in the long playoff drought that we are in.

Bottom line.
Close the thread Brian. :-)

"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Apr 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

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