Poll: Which Bills CB Is Most Likely To Start?
by Brian Galliford on Jun 24, 2011 10:45 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintBuffalo Bills GM Buddy Nix has made it clear that the team will try to re-sign free agent cornerback Drayton Florence when the NFL lockout ends and the new league year begins. On a separate note, we spoke just this week about the potential role rookie Aaron Williams might carve for himself as a nickel back, no matter what happens with the veteran players in front of him.
For the sake of this argument, let's assume those two things happen: the Bills re-sign Florence, and he retains his starting job on the outside; and Williams becomes the team's nickel back of choice due to his run-stopping capabilities. That leaves a starting spot open, and an interesting battle to take place between Terrence McGee and Leodis McKelvin.
McGee is coming off a down year, having missed a lot of time and opportunity due to injury. McKelvin was his usual self last year, flashing moments of high levels of competence, but generally playing very inconsistently. The interesting part about this: it's conceivable that the loser of the battle would become the team's dime back. Our question to you: who should start?
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I have a bad feeling mcgee might have a new home come the start of the season, especially if we resign florence. Really too bad as he’s always been one of my favorite players.
by bizarro bills on Jun 24, 2011 10:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Why?
Why would the team destroy whatever depth it might have by moving McGee? It’s not like we have a great group of CB’s at this point that could overcome the loss of a player like him. McKelvin is an enigma, Williams is a rookie, Florence is a solid veteran and Corner is a body. I don’t see how the Bills could afford to move McGee when that’s all they’d be left with.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jun 24, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, exactly. They have strength in numbers, and all are reasonably paid. No reason to change that.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jun 24, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
30+ veterans who are frequently injured have problems surviving those final cuts is all I’m saying. What if justin Rogers has a stud preseason? Do we keep 6 corners on the roster? Or maybe mcgee would be unhappy being relegated to the role of the 4th corner or dime cb. I’m only saying that the variables are there. Would it be stupid? Yes. But still possible nonetheless.
by bizarro bills on Jun 24, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
McGee should be the starter...
Make McKelvin earn it, which he still hasnt. Every player in the league, sans Maybin, has shown a flash of brilliant play, but to stay consistant is another thing. Plus at least McKelvin can contribute on ST. And with injuries and mulitple WR sets, he’ll be ont he field.
Lets Go Buff a lo!!!
by bflo on Jun 24, 2011 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
hammer hits nail on head...rec'd
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
Rec’d.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jun 24, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And people that dont actually read the post, be careful.
Title and question are two different things…
Lets Go Buff a lo!!!
Ha, whoops. Good point. Fixed. :)
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jun 24, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Never was a big fan of D Flo
if anything I would prefer him to be the dime back. Since that is not an option I would say if McGee is healthy then he starts out as the starter, but if his age, health, and inability to keep up with fast receivers becomes a problem again then McKelvin would have to get a shot. McKelvin still just seems to have too many mental lapses between biting on fakes or misjudging passes.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Jun 24, 2011 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The fact McKelvin is arguably a better fit as a dime back is pretty depressing. I hope this is his year, but last year I didn’t really see the light turn on. Consistency is more valuable at the corner position than the occasional eye-popping play. Gimme D-Flo and McGee, hopefully he hasnt lost anything. The secondary scares me, hopefully Williams can help….
by greysquirrel on Jun 24, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Leodis
Going into his 4th season this should be a break-out year for Leodis. There is a massive learning curve going from Troy U to the NFL, hell it would be a large learning curve going from Troy U to a team in the SEC. Besides McGee has had injury problems where a 16 game schedule might not be possible…
"I want to rush for 1,000 or 1,500 yards, whichever comes first"
-- George Rogers former Saints RB
It's not a massive jump
Guys have made the leap from Troy to solid contributor as rookies before (Ware, Umenyiora, Sherrod Martin), so why should that be an excuse for McKelvin? That’s a D1 program that played teams like Missouri, South Carolina, Florida State, Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, and Oklahoma State during McKelvin’s time on campus. This isn’t some community college here, it’s a legit program that cannot be used as an excuse for why McKelvin has been a mediocre pro.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I would say going from Tennessee State
to the NFL is a much bigger jump than Troy. DRC came from Tenn State and was the 2nd corner taken in that NFL Draft and I would say he has outperformed McKelvin thus far. Is DRC a top corner in the NFL…no…but there is no question that he is a starting caliber corner and has big play capibilities, McKelvin so far has yet to prove why he should be a starter in the NFL. Hopefully McKelvin can make the jump this year though.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
McGee
I think you pencil McGee in as the starter at the outset, but you don’t hesitate to move McKelvin into the role should those “moments of high levels of competence” evolve into consistent awesomeness.
You could really make this argument for everyone on the defensive side of the ball, except for Williams (and probably Dareus eventually). The defense sucks. No starter’s job should be safe.
McKelvin
McGee has been a rock until he caught the injury bug a couple seasons ago, but I think Gailey/Nix know his ceiling and that he is aging. Just like they didn’t know what they had at other positions (e.g. WR with Stevie, Nelson, LT with Bell, QB with Fitz), they have to give Leodis all reps/coaching b/c nobody know his ceiling, only seen his flashes of potential. Give him starting reps early in the season or camp (rest McGee as much as possible) and you can always plug a vet in like McGee at any time thereafter.
I refused to vote
This poll makes no sense since McGee and McKelvin will be the likely starting CB’s, unless Florence starts in place of Leo, who would then go to nickel back. McGee is one of the best CB’s in the NFL when healthy, and there is no sign yet that age is slowing him down significantly. Aaron Williams is a raw rookie who is not getting the chance to start learning his position at the NFL level because of the lockout. He might be the dime back this year if he is ready, but there is also the chance that the team will go with the more experienced Reggie Corner there, with Williams playing dime only if/when injuries take out one of the guys above him on the pecking order.
Williams is likely to get on the field more in 2012, but probably as either a dime or nickel back.
Florence was, by a considerable margin, the team’s best cornerback last year. Wasn’t even close. If he’s here, he’s a starter. Period.
“No sign yet that age is slowing (McGee) down significantly”? The guy has missed 12 games in the last two seasons. Age and health can be reliably linked, and McGee will be 31 this October. I wouldn’t have called him “one of the best CBs in the NFL” when he was in his heyday, either.
Your point with Williams is strong, but this post is entirely hypothetical, and I do believe the team would like him to play as a rookie – specifically to toughen themselves up defending the run out of the nickel package, which we talked about this week.
We held a poll at the end of May asking which CB would be the “odd man out,” and Williams won it. So humor us and answer a hypothetical question. :)
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jun 24, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Florence is guranteed a starting spot if he’s a Bill. McGee and McKelvin are the better athletes. If they’re healthy and show improved consistency (respectively), these two are more capable of covering the faster, more dynamic receivers that the bills will face. I agree that Florence was the best corner last season, but that was last season and despite his solid play, I remember him getting beat as often as McKelvin.
But if i’m answering the hypotheical poll question under the assumption that Florence is starting I’m going with McKelvin. I think he needs the confidence boost of being named a starter and as a first round pick who has at times flashed his immense potential, he has to be given the chance.
THAT is why i'm serious.
McGee and McKelvin are the better athletes.
And Florence is the better player. These coaches have been in Buffalo for one year. They base their evaluations off of game and practice film. Florence was rock solid last year. He starts.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jun 24, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
I agree with Poz’s post below that McGee is underrated. The guy continues to be pretty fast, and above all he is canny — capable of figuring out where a receiver is going and then putting himself in position to make a PBU again and again. I also agree with Brian that Florence was our best CB last year with McGee sidelined, so it seems to me that Leo would be the odd man out if they don’t put Florence at nickel (where he is in fact exceptionally effective). I’ll vote that way in the poll just for fun.
As for playing Williams as a rookie, I doubt very much they will do it unless he is ready. They obviously want to put the best D on the field they can, and a highly inexperienced CB is not the way to do that. Besides, if he is asked to play too soon and makes a lot of mistakes it could shatter his confidence. So I see him listening and learning until injuries strike and they have no choice except to use him.
im hoping williams beats everyone out
the next revis
by badnewsBills on Jun 24, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
McGee
should be given his job back until someone takes it.
McGee has always been a solid, underrated professional his entire time in Buffalo. He’s proven he can run with just about most WRs in this league and teams have to respect him.
You don’t lose a job to injury unless a young guy’s play steals it. That hasn’t happened.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
Exactly
When both are healthy, I trust McGee more to avoid the cataclysmic failure. I mean, if we want to talk about injury bugs, McKelvin has missed 13 games int he past two seasons. Freak accident, maybe. But I’m not going to hold their injury records over them. No one is proposing wheeling McGee out there in a wheel chair.
by greysquirrel on Jun 24, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly this.
Couldnt have said it better myself, so I wont.
"It’s like I’ve always said, don’t tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby. That’s what we’ve got to do. We’ve got to show you the baby, and the baby is winning." - Buddy Nix
mcgee if he stays healthy
the only times i remember leodis are when he gets burned and fumbles returns
McGee, no questions
football is a meritocracy. McGee has done amazing things in his career, though he has been hampered by injuries. Let the man play until his on-field production merits he be replaced. In my mind, and I’ve met McGee, nice guy, he deserves all the respect in the world from our fans. He, like Schobel and Evans, never showed signs of wanting to abandon ship.
"You can't spell, 'The Buffalo Bills Win the Superbowl,' without 'Buffalo Bills.'" - Me
Schobel did abandon ship
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Jun 24, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Retiring is abandoning ship now?
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jun 24, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
It was in his case. His whole thing was basically, ‘this team isn’t good enough for me.’ He still had plenty of good years left, and we really could have used him last year. He wanted people to bend over backwards to get him to stay, which they didn’t do. I was disappointed in both sides over that.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Jun 24, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really blame him after being a solid player and watching his team go 7-9 for what seemed like an entire decade, never making the playoffs in his career? he gave them 10 years to get their act together. I wouldn’t call that jumping ship, personally.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Even so, I would certainly not credit him with being a good team player, at least not alongside McGee and Evans.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Jun 24, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, he was a good team player while he was here. I didn’t like that he decided to retire either, but I certainly don’t hold it against him. He was also here longer than Evans and McGee.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
“he [Schobel] gave them 10 years to get their act together. I wouldn’t call that jumping ship, personally.”
I would call a tryout with the Texans two weeks after the Bills finally released him — and a few months after claiming he “wasn’t sure he wanted to play football in 2010” — “jumping ship” . . .
.
I wouldn’t. If it were four or five years in, sure. But ten years is a long time to be on a losing squad that has made no improvement at all.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
If he no longer wanted to be on the squad, fine — he should’ve had the cojones to just say so.
There was no need for all the Favre-style “I’m not sure if I wanna play” drama.
And the fact that he had a tryout with Houston means he must’ve been lying about not wanting to play in ’10 — he wanted to, just not with the Bills.
Again, have the stones to say so . . .
.
That’s kind of like blaming the passengers of the Titanic for “jumping ship” after she was 3/4 in the water and half the passengers ahead of them were dead.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
“That’s kind of like blaming the passengers of the Titanic for "jumping ship" after she was 3/4 in the water and half the passengers ahead of them were dead.”
This metaphor would only be correct if the passengers vowed afterward that they’d NEVER set foot on another ocean liner — then promptly signed up for the next cruise on the Queen Mary . . .
.
He didn’t sign with the Texans…
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Only because
his workout went poorly and they did not want him at the money he wanted. They were set at DE – why overpay an old guy to be a rotational player at the very best ?
The Buffalo Bills - Drafting for size, speed and destruction since 2011.
Also, the metaphor works fine, since “jumping ship” comes from exactly that…jumping ship when it starts to sink.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Please re-read the above
again, the metaphor only works if the Titanic passengers didn’t set foot on another ship.
No one blames them for leaving a ship that’s sinking and going to kill them if they stay — just as I don’t blame Schobel for wanting to leave the Bills. {My motto is, if you don’t want to be here, I don’t want you here.}
What would have made the passengers hypocrites is if they said the experience made them never want to go on another transatlantic cruise — then signed up for the next one that came along . . . just as Schobel was a hypocrite for saying he “wasn’t sure” if he wanted to play last year — then running to a tryout with the Texans after the Bills finally release him.
The jumping ship part isn’t the problem. The lying about not wanting to play is.
But ten years is a long time to be on a losing squad that has made no improvement at all.
Oh, BOO HOO — like Schobel is the only player ever to play his career on a losing team . . .
Archie Manning spent 10 years with the Saints; not only did he not make the playoffs the entire time, they never had a winning record . . . while Manning did move on to Houston and Minnesota {where he fared no better}, he at least was up front with his trade requests . . .
.
You’re extending the metaphor beyond its intention, so I’m done arguing about that. However, I will say that I still don’t blame him, for trying to sign with the Texans, for looking at other teams, because the Bills did nothing for him. And then they released him, allowing him to retire.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I lied, I'm not done arguing about it.
Please re-read the above
I was ignoring what you wrote above because you’re extending the metaphor too far. Passengers vowing not to cruise another ship in the Titanic metaphor would be because they were scared of it sinking. You’re saying he should have never played for another team because he told the Bills he wanted to retire instead of play for another team. That doesn’t work, and it breaks down.
Players come back from retirement all the time, even after telling their teams they’re done in the league.
The jumping ship part isn’t the problem. The lying about not wanting to play is.
If you feel that way, that is legitimate. I don’t. I don’t care what he did after retiring, what he told the team, anything. To me, it’s not anything besides needing to get out of Buffalo and then deciding he wanted to be closer to friends and family and trying out for Houston.
Oh, BOO HOO — like Schobel is the only player ever to play his career on a losing team . . .
Oh, BOO HOO – Like Schobel is the only player to ever have to work his way out of a bad situation and try to find a better one…
The bottom line is that I don’t care what he did after he left Buffalo. He gave the team 10 years, and they could not repay his efforts. He deserved to try to find a better situation somewhere.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
come on Sawyer
the NFL destroys bodies. Schobel gave everything he had and more to this franchise. As our best defender he never opened his mouth to complain or whine and went out there and did his job for a futile franchise every year to the tune of having the second most sacks in franchise history.
If he didn’t feel it was worth the sacrifice to his long-term health and to his family in the south then he had every right to retire while maintaining the respect of the fans. He didnt think he was too good for us, he didnt think he could properly commit himself to our franchise anymore and I appreciate that he didnt come out here and play when it wasnt in him.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
You know it brother..... but......
Can you imagine our developed beast Kyle, Darius, AND Showbull on the same Dline?
That would be the bomb!
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jun 24, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed my friend
that would have been beastly!
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
I'd rather look forward
to Dareus, Troup, Williams, and Carrington . . .
43% for McKelvin?
I’m very surprised at this. I was surprised even to see the question raised. McGee is the starter unless he gets hurt. Sure that’s a strong possibility, but even when he played hurt last year, he still started over McKelvin, didn’t he? And hasn’t Gailey said outright that McKelvin has failed to live up to his potential? It seems to me that he would have to have a truly special training camp/preseason to convince the coaching staff he should unseat an experienced veteran who most agree is still among the best when he’s healthy.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Jun 24, 2011 1:36 PM EDT reply actions
I voted McKelvin opposite McGee
Either way it is a nice problem to have. The third CB will see plenty of playing time. We need to see what Mckelvin can do this year. All the physicallity is there but the mental part will be exposed by the better Wr’s in the league. He was inconsistent last year he wasn’t terrible. How do you overcome inconsistency? How do you develop the necessary resilencey required to be CB. McGee starts every game he is healthy, McKelvin or Florence can rotate with either the rookie taking starting reps, or the vet taking starting reps. McKelvin’s weakness is mental and I don’t mean that in a durogator mannor, he will need more hands on to learn than most.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I vote for both to start
McKelvin at CB and McGee at S
It’d look like this:
STARTER/ BACKUPS
CB McKelvin/ Corner
CB Florence/ Williams
LS Byrd/Wilson/ Scott
RS McGee/ Searcy/ Rogers{RS}
There are several reasons this could/should happen:
To keep a vet CB with coverage skills in the lineup, even after they’ve turned 30/ had injury issues, moving them to S makes sense, and has been done before {Woodson, Vincent}
To get around any issues of whether McGee is “too small” for S {which wasn’t an issue for Bob Sanders, who’s an inch shorter than McGee}, the Bills can simply discard the “free” and “strong” designations, and replace them with L and R
The Bills, being the Bills, are only gonna spend big money to keep one FA DB; all indications seem to say it will be Flo, not Whitner {which is why Whitner isn’t listed above}
If you’re wondering how that’s possible, keep in mind that CHIX has publicly pronounced their desire to retain Flo; they made no such pronouncement about Whitner despite his public desire to remain with the Bills {in the only report about contract talks before the lockout, Whitner and the Bills were said to be “far apart”}
Keep in mind also that, prior to the lockout, the Bills made a concerted effort to retain George Wilson; seems strange they’d do so for an UDFA/converted WR, rather than the eighth overall pick in the ’06 draft {sounds like as obvious a commentary on Whitner as you can get}
Should either McKelvin go on another mental vacation or Flo start committing too many penalties, replacing them would be a simple matter of McGee kicking out to CB, and Williams, as nickel, coming off the bench
.
I hope George comes back. I love him.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jun 24, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
McGee
is not a strong enough tackler to play SS (Don’t care if you’re calling it RS it’s effectively SS) Height is not the only factor – McGee is probably 15 pounds too light minimum to play SS. Asking a guy over 30 to put on 15 pounds is asking for trouble – he’s been injury prone enough without adding weight !
Bob Sanders is not a great example – his size caught up with him before he got to McGees age – you’re only weakening your statement there.
I just don’t agree with getting an undersized injury prone guy to play a position which is more likely to get him injured than his last one !
The Buffalo Bills - Drafting for size, speed and destruction since 2011.
Asking a guy over 30 to put on 15 pounds is asking for trouble – he’s been injury prone enough without adding weight !
I didn’t ask for him to put on 15 lbs — I asked for him to switch positions, help out McKelvin and the youngsters, and be a bridge between the {expected} departure of Whitner and our next safety.
Bob Sanders is not a great example – his size caught up with him before he got to McGees age – you’re only weakening your statement there.
Don’t see how; Sanders’ size may indeed have caught up with him — but not before he acquired a Super bowl ring, was a two-time Pro-bowler/All-pro, and was generally acknowledged, along with Reed and Polamalu, as one of the AFC’s best safeties.
I’m not even asking for McGee to become another Reed; just use his skills/ experience.
I just don’t agree with getting an undersized injury prone guy to play a position which is more likely to get him injured than his last one !
McGee’s a defensive back; his job is to make tackles. How is him making tackles at safety going to make him any more injury prone than him making tackles at cornerback?
.
What ?
You want McGee to play SS at 190 pounds – uh, good luck with that.
Sanders got away with being undersized when he was young, it’s obvious as he got older that his size contributed to him being constantly injured.
McGee’s a defensive back; his job is to make tackles. How is him making tackles at safety going to make him any more injury prone than him making tackles at cornerback?
You do watch football – right ? Playing CB he is mostly tackling WR’s – guys who are a similar weight and size to him. Playing SS he would be mostly tackling RBs and TEs who on average would be 220 lbs (RB) and 250 lbs (TE). You don’t think tackling guys 30 to 60 pounds heavier is going to open you up to more injury than tackling WR’s ??? In case you have not noticed – RBs and TEs run harder and are a lot tougher to bring down than any R (not named Andre or Calvin Johnson)
The Buffalo Bills - Drafting for size, speed and destruction since 2011.
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