Odd Man Out: Jasper or Heard?

by Munchausen on Jun 8, 2011 5:45 PM EDT

If we do have a preseason this year, Bills fans will pay close attention to the competition over the 7th roster spot on the defensive line. In all likelihood, Kellen Heard and Michael Jasper will be competing for the role of heavy DT/NT.

I'm not a fan of Kellen Heard. He has a long reputation for having no work ethic. He signed to play football with Miami out of high school, but never enrolled in school! He wound up playing for Texas A&M, where his claim to fame was a vulgar cheap shot on Colt McCoy. He has never registered an NFL tackle, though he was good enough to make the Oakland Raiders practice squad!

The saga of Jasper should be familiar to all Bills fans at this point. He caught a few bad breaks in the recruitment process, and wound up at a lower tier college program (Bethel) than he should have. He hasn't played against NFL caliber talent, which makes his football skills hard to judge at this point. But if he even shows himself to be competitive with Heard during the preseason, I think he is the obvious pick due to his demonstrated superior character and work ethic.

Now for the poll:

Poll

Who makes the 53-man roster?

Kellen Heard

6 votes

Michael Jasper

273 votes

Neither

34 votes

313 votes | Poll has closed

Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.

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Comments

Didn't vote.....

Who knows Munch? We’ll find out in camp.
Best man wins.

"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jun 8, 2011 7:22 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah

It’s all speculation at this stage for sure.

I thought it would be fun to post this for 2 reasons:

1. To argue that Jasper’s shot at making the team is better than many seem to think.
2. To see if anybody knows something about Kellen Heard that I don’t.

On #1, I know that Jasper is raw, but there really is room for him on the team right now. I don’t like the position of some frequent commenters that Jasper is 100% guaranteed practice squad fodder. If Kellen Heard made the roster for a time last year, Jasper could make it this year. At least the poll seems to say that.

I’m guessing the people who voted “neither” think we’ll sign some FA’s or something, which would of course throw a wrench in the whole business.

by Munchausen on Jun 8, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I don’t like the position of some frequent commenters that Jasper is 100% guaranteed practice squad fodder.

that’s my position because he’s super raw – unless injuries occur he’s almost guaranteed practice squad. If he had played against top competition it’d be different – but he moved around between positions so it’s not like he was just a NT for years and that’s it. He’s played OG and he’s moved around – so he lacks the experience against top competition and years of reps at NT that’s required.

He’s going to need a lot of refining on his technique.

I’m guessing the people who voted "neither" think we’ll sign some FA’s or something

nope – because between Williams, Troup and Dareus we have the flexibility to only go with those 3 players during games because all 3 of them can play NT – why would we have 4 players that could play one position – especially when that position is NT? that would neglect other positions where depth might be more crucial or productive – has any NFL team ever carried 4 players during a game that can play NT?

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Jun 9, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Of the 8 DL’s currently on our roster, 7 of them were listed at DT in college (Carrington was the only college DE, and he’s built like a DT anyways).

Aside from Heard and Jasper, only Troup is really a pure NT/DT, with everyone else spending time at DE. For example, I believe that Dareus and Williams both saw some time at end last year.

We’d carry another NT because we don’t have a classic heavy 3-4 defense NT. Troup and Williams are big guys relative to you and me, but they’re no Casey Hampton or Ted Washington. Jasper and Heard are that big, and I think their size does matter for us.

by Munchausen on Jun 9, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

You realize Troup is up to close to 330 pounds now, right?

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions

That is comparable to where other heavy NT’s are listed.

Casey Hampton — 325
Vince Wilfork — 325
Haloti Ngata — 345
Shaun Rogers — 350

Of course, these guys always underreport their weight. I’d guess the true average is somewhere in the 350’s, leaving Troup still about 10% light.

Troup is a big strong dude, and hopefully this is the year he discovers true space eating sumo fatness.

by Munchausen on Jun 9, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

still – there is no need for having 3 NT on the active roster – especially when 4 guys can get the job done.

from a numbers perspective you are saturating that position and leaving other positions short handed – it’s not practical.

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Jun 9, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions

especially when 4 guys can get the job done.

3 guys already active can get the job done

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Jun 9, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Keeping Jasper on the roster (if he can do the job) will allow us to keep Dareus and Williams rotating around, but mostly playing end – at least that’s the way I see it.

And another potential benefit of keeping an extra man is from rotation, keeping them fresh throughout the game and possibly the year.

Inaugural winner of "The Buffalo Kid’s wittiest post of the year award"

by NordicBillsfan on Jun 10, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions

But don't get me wrong Munch... I'm rooting for Jasper.

Always rooting for the underdog!
Are we all not Bills fans!! Wahooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

But, I do understand completely that a guy who played at a school like Bethel, against high-school competition, will probably end up on the practice squad to perfect his skills and be there on the team in case of injuries to our D-line.

"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jun 8, 2011 8:24 PM EDT reply actions

jasper is a lock for the active roster

they wouldnt of drafted him just to put him on the practice squad if they were gonna do that they would of picked a qb to camp battle it

MY 2011 ADOPTED BILLS OFFENSE ROSCOE PARRISH DEFENSE DONTE WHITNER IF HE DECIDES TO COME BACK

by Gpluehri on Jun 8, 2011 9:04 PM EDT reply actions

i could not disagree with this more. sometimes you completely whiff on draft picks. you pick a guy in the late rounds who comes into camp and stinks it up. you give him the boot for someone better.
last season neither of their 7th rounders made the team, so i have no idea why jasper would be a “lock”

by boomsauce on Jun 8, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions

exactly – kyle calloway didn’t make the roster – Levi Brown didn’t either but then was signed later.

he’s far from a lock – i’m pulling for him to make the PS and I think that would be a great thing for him

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Jun 9, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions

im gonna say he is a lock and the coaching staff will give him a year to see what he can do

MY 2011 ADOPTED BILLS OFFENSE ROSCOE PARRISH DEFENSE DONTE WHITNER IF HE DECIDES TO COME BACK

by Gpluehri on Jun 9, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

GP

usually agree with you on most things but remember that jasper played OG most of the last 2 seasons and needs to learn 3 things this year:

How to stay in pro football shape: weight control, diet and strength training
How to play the NT in our 3-4 and DT in hybrid packages
Defensive terminology in the pros

Point of reference – Pat Williams was a PS player initially. IF Jasper makes team he is a definite PS player in 2011

by freddyjj on Jun 10, 2011 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Depends on Jasper

I think he either gets a roster spot or he’s gone. Sure we’ll put him on the PS but someone will snag him up pretty quick just like they did Joique Bell last yr. If he shows potential then give him a spot, if not put him where another team can stael him because they will. Just is what it is.

by Gr8dane00 on Jun 11, 2011 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Whoops

Looks like Kellen Heard’s mom just voted :)

Jasper 53, Heard 1

by Munchausen on Jun 8, 2011 10:42 PM EDT reply actions

Neither

Both are bigtime projects that are unlikely to make the team. Heard has more NFL experience and a better pedigree, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot at this point. I still don’t understand all this love for Jasper. I’ll be shocked if he ever plays a down for the Bills. Unless the kid loses a lot more weight and develops NFL technique, it’ll be a struggle to crack a 53-man roster.

I’d actually give the edge to Heard, but that isn’t saying much. After they both get cut, I’d expect Jasper to get the PS job unless he’s absolutely useless during the preseason (assuming there is one).

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2011 1:54 AM EDT reply actions

Unless the kid loses a lot more weight

why’s he gotta lose more weight? He’s already shredded a ton of weight and from what we’ve heard the scouts say is that he isn’t sloppy fat but he carries his weight very well. I don’t think that makes much sense – he’s just a big dude.

and develops NFL technique

exactly – that’s what he needs – if he makes the PS then awesome – he’s going to need at a minimum a year of NFL coaching.

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Jun 9, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions

He's still what, 380+ lbs?

Or at least he was when he was drafted. Sure, maybe he can carry that, but he doesn’t need to be that big. Maybe shedding another 20-30 lbs would help him with his lateral movement and potential quickness.

I have a hard time seeing him make a roster regardless of his weight.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions

well he doesn’t need to be that big – but he still has a 33" vertical jump, can dunk a basketball standing and has a 9’5 broad jump at 380 pounds. that’s insane – he doesn’t need to drop weight – he’s plenty limber.

I see him having a tough time making the roster too – but weight isn’t on the list of potential issues – it’s lack of experience and technique.

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Jun 9, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Neither. Jasper will be stashed on the practice squad, and they’ll keep five ends and two nose guards.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2011 8:04 AM EDT reply actions

Implying:

NT – Williams & Troup
DE – Johnson, Carrington, Dareus, Edwards, Free Agent

The thing I don’t get is your argument (stated elsewhere) that NT is so technically complex that it will take Jasper a year to learn the ropes to even have a shot at the roster. It’s not like Jasper is a QB or something. And he doesn’t have to play with the versatility of Dareus or Williams to contribute. Even if the guy just learns some simple plays where he’s a heavy DT in short yardage situations, and maybe one other role, it may be sensible to keep him on the roster. Given Jasper’s work ethic and intelligence, I can’t see how it’s beyond him to pick up those simple skills in a couple months time.

by Munchausen on Jun 9, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

As I said, NT isn’t a weight/strength position, it’s a leverage position. Jasper played guard in college. Chan Gailey is moving him to nose tackle because that’s the position Jasper told him he’d like to play.

I’m not writing Jasper off, because clearly he’s an athletic talent. Nor am I saying that it’s a 100% certainty that he won’t make the team, because nothing in football is certain. But Jasper faces extremely long odds.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Jasper to IR and Heard to PS

Both need a year to strength and conditioning, you can protect projects on IR more so than PS. The Bills would want to keep someone around to groom, it could very well be Heard.

YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde

by VanScottM on Jun 9, 2011 9:35 AM EDT reply actions

I don’t think they can groom him when he is on the practice squad.

by garcia76 on Jun 9, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions

I am not suggesting he blow his knee out.

Going on IR can be something small and nagging, something that may take a little more time to get under control, thus keeping a closer eye on the player and his development going forward. It doesn’t have to be illegal to do this, but could be interpreted that way. I believe Easley could of been on the roster last year if necessary, but the Bills felt to get things right with him and time will tell if it worked out.

YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde

by VanScottM on Jun 9, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Going on IR can be something small and nagging,

Hangnail?

Inaugural winner of "The Buffalo Kid’s wittiest post of the year award"

by NordicBillsfan on Jun 10, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions

constipation

MY 2011 ADOPTED BILLS OFFENSE ROSCOE PARRISH DEFENSE DONTE WHITNER IF HE DECIDES TO COME BACK

by Gpluehri on Jun 10, 2011 10:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

IF

Heard might be better to start camp because of his experience but if Jasper shows more of an upside he could win a spot. Don’t forget that Jasper has also played OT and I’m sure they will try and get him some reps there just to see how he handles himself against Williams, Dareus, Troup etc.

Jasper’s versatility could help him land a spot, he can come in as a 3rd tightend in
goal-line situations or be used as a lead back ala the Fridge near the goal- line.

"There’s a difference between a good manager and a great one. The good one will tell you there’s more than one way to skin a cat. A great manager will convince the cat it’s necessary. Sparky had the cats carrying the knives to him."

-- Johnny Bench

by Goose22 on Jun 9, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions

a couple things to remember with this:
1) we are almost certainly going to keep 6 (possibly even 7?) WRs this season, that extra roster spot needs to come from somewhere

2) chris kelsay, for all intents and purposes, will act like the bills 7th dlineman. they will use 4 man fronts early and often, with kelsay lined up as a 4-3 DE.

3) the presence of troup means keeping jasper on the roster is kind of a wasted spot, as it pushes him to our #3 NT and makes it highly unlikely that hell play a down

4) NT might not be a ‘technically complex’ position, but it is still an extremely, extremely difficult one. how anyone expects this kid to go from playing OG at a DIII school to NFL quality NT in the blink of an eye is kidding themselves

the most likely scenario is easily that jasper gets placed on the practice squad. then he wouldnt be taking a roster spot away from a better football player, and he could still work on sculpting his body and developing an NFL level skill set.

by boomsauce on Jun 9, 2011 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs