Bills Training Camp Battles: First O-Lineman Up

by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2011 1:30 PM EDT in Buffalo Bills Training Camp

Earlier this morning, we spent some quality time talking up the fact that the Buffalo Bills need to be healthier on the offensive line in 2011 if they plan to take a step forward offensively under Chan Gailey's offense. With that in mind, depth is obviously a huge issue on any football team, and most good teams have a top reserve up front that they look to first if a player goes down.

Thanks to the multitude of injuries the team dealt with a year ago, the team certainly isn't lacking in experienced options. Depending on who starts at center, it's even possible that we can count Geoff Hangartner in a conversation that includes Kraig Urbik and Chad Rinehart on the inside. That conversation also includes Mansfield Wrotto and Cordaro Howard - two players that are best fits as guards, but who have NFL experience playing tackle.

Those aren't the only names vying to be the Bills' go-to sixth lineman - 2010 fifth-round pick Ed Wang could fit into the picture, as well - but right now, those five players are the front-runners. It'll be something of a mess to figure out, but it's conceivable that one could emerge as a literal sixth man up front.

Poll

Other factors (i.e. injury) notwithstanding, predict who the Bills' top O-Line reserve will be.

Mansfield Wrotto

120 votes

Geoff Hangartner

322 votes

Kraig Urbik

312 votes

Cordaro Howard

60 votes

Chad Rinehart

74 votes

888 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 27 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

I went with Geoff Hangartner.

I am going out on a limb with this starting set: Bell-Levitre-Wood-Urbik-Pears.
For back-ups: Hangartner, Rinehart, Wrotto.
PS: Wang, Hairston

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

This is a pretty good estimation.

Unless they bring in some FA to man a T spot. I think this could very well look like our O-line week 1.

Now attending the Univ. of Hockey.

by bflo on Jul 19, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed, but don't forget Rinehart

That’s my guess as well for the starting line-up, but don’t be surprised if it is Rinehart starting in place of Urbik after the dust has settled from training camp. Urbik is a little bigger and stronger, but Rinehart is plenty strong and also more athletic — capable of neatly executing all the traps and pulls that Gailey loves to run, where Urbik is at best adequate in that regard.

So I could see the starting o-line as Bell-Levitre-Wood-Rinehart-Pears, with Urbik as the main reserve (along w/ Hang).

by Macktruck on Jul 19, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

No way a 4th round OT is a PS player. He might not be active on game day, but he won’t be cut at the end of camp.

The real scary thing is that there’s really no one to back up Bell. He’s far from the best player on the team, but the dropoff between he and his back up is probably higher than everyone but Fitz at this point.

by Pistol on Jul 19, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

No way a 4th round OT is a PS player.

Is this a new rule? What about 4th round Safeties? Or QBs? What is the cut-off – 5th? Seriously, I don’t get that justification.

If the Bills go with 8 O-Lineman on the active roster, like many teams do, then every other guy is cut. Then a PS is selected (based on previous CBA rules). So if you believe Hairston is one of the 8 then which of my picks would you cut?

Anyway, this is just my pre-training camp speculation. With no official off-season work-outs we have no way of knowing what level of fitness these guys have. I believe roster battles this year may be more intense than those of recent years.

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Seriously, I don’t get that justification.

The justification is that if they place Hairston on the PS, then another team will pick him up in a heart beat. A 4th round OT essentially for free? That’s a deal no one should pass up.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 19, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

So, again, I ask what is the cut-off? Do all teams keep their Rd 1-4 draft picks on the roster? I doubt it.

Earlier articles mentioned that Hairston needed strength training IF he was to have a better chance of making the squad. What if he comes in to camp the same, or worse? Do you think Gailey would keep him then?

How about this hypothetical: If Gailey has decided on his starters and reserves/back-ups, and one of them is not Hairston, does he then dump one of them to keep Hairston?

Recent history lesson is the Bills cut Hardy, a 2nd Rd choice. Missed his first year due to injury, couldn’t make the team last year. The Bills did not offer him a PS spot. No one else picked him up until Ravens at the end of the season. High draft picks do get cut. Certainly a mid-rounder is more likely to get cut than an early round pick.

My original posting was merely my opinion that Hairston will not beat out the 8 players I mentioned. If he is not claimed by any other team, and if he shows the potential we all hope he has, then he would be signed to the PS.

If you think Hairston is one of the players kept (regardless of draft status) then which one of my 8 does not make the squad?

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

High rounders get cut after they’ve shown they can’t cut it in the NFL. High draft picks that get cut before their first year get picked up. I was just saying that is a reason to not put him on the PS, as he will be picked up. It is a justification. Also, Hardy was not drafted by this regime, Hairston was, which is further justification.

I think that if it comes down to keeping either Hairston or Wrotto, I think they might keep Hairston. I also don’t think Urbik is going to be starting, so he’s a candidate in my mind. Though to be honest, if it came down to cutting Hairston, I think they’d rather carry 9 OL, especially considering our injury past.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 19, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions

High draft picks that get cut before their first year get picked up. I was just saying that is a reason to not put him on the PS, …

Each draft there are 256 selections (32 teams X 7 rounds + comp & supplementary picks), which puts the middle pick of the draft at number 128. Hairston was pick number 122, 4th round pick 25. I do not see how he can be referred to as a high draft pick. Round 1 is the first day, rounds 2 and 3 the second day, and 4-7 are all on the same day. They gave 15 minutes between 1st round selections, 10 min for 2-3, and only 5 min for the last 4 rounds. Even the NFL considers the 4-7 rounds as not high picks.
I just don’t understand how Hairston is considered a “high-rounder”, or a lock for the final cut down.

Da’Norris Searcy was the first Bills selection in the fourth round, 2011 draft pick number 100. Do you feel he is a lock to make the 53 man roster because of when he was selected? If Whitner is re-signed then the Safeties in camp would be Whitner, Wilson, Scott, Byrd, Corto and Searcy. I’m sure Corto can be cut, but which other player will also be released? I would guess Whitner and Byrd are locks. So to keep Searcy on the roster either Wilson or Scott would have to be cut.

… if it came down to cutting Hairston, I think they’d rather carry 9 OL …

See my reply to pistol below with the position breakdown. If 9 OL are kept then which other position gets shorted?

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Each draft there are 256 selections (32 teams X 7 rounds + comp & supplementary picks), which puts the middle pick of the draft at number 128. Hairston was pick number 122, 4th round pick 25. I do not see how he can be referred to as a high draft pick. Round 1 is the first day, rounds 2 and 3 the second day, and 4-7 are all on the same day. They gave 15 minutes between 1st round selections, 10 min for 2-3, and only 5 min for the last 4 rounds. Even the NFL considers the 4-7 rounds as not high picks.

Not to sound snotty, but I know all of this. Yes, I think Searcy will make the 53 man roster. And I didn’t meant to call him a high draft pick, but he’s certainly high enough (and thought highly enough of) to be picked up by a team if he heads to the PS.

I think you’re overvaluing players from the previous regime. Why can’t Corto be cut? Also, I doubt Whitner is coming back. There are a lot of what-ifs in there.

See my reply to pistol below with the position breakdown. If 9 OL are kept then which other position gets shorted?

See my reply to your reply. I posted it a while ago.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 19, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Saw your reply and replied. This is weird.

I said Corto CAN BE CUT. I did not value him highly.

I only included the draft facts to illustrate my view of Hairston as a middle round pick and not a high pick. I feel I am talking in circles here. Some guys are making the rosters and some guys get axed. I do not believe that Hairston is as NFL-ready as you do. Further I do not believe any other team would put a claim in on Hairston if the perceived “low talent” Bills cut him. Outside of J. Bell did any other Bills cuts get picked up by anybody last year? (Hardy doesn’t count)

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Haha, well, Hardy would be the one. But I think the more important question to ask is which Bills rookies got cut? Kyle Calloway, a 7th rounder.

I never said anything about him being NFL ready. I think Gailey drafts people and wants them around for a while, so he won’t cut them. If he does, I think it’s a big risk, because some team that is starved for tackle (and there are plenty, I am sure) might see in him what Gailey and Nix saw. It has nothing to do with readiness, it has to do with the fact that I think that Gailey and Nix won’t do it because they’re afraid they’d lose him before they saw what they had in him.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 20, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions

I never said anything about him being NFL ready.

No one said you did. I said “I do not believe that Hairston is as NFL-ready as you do.” That does not say he is NFL ready, merely your evaluation puts him closer to being there than I do.

It has nothing to do with readiness

What? Brother step back and re-read that as if someone else made that statement. You said it yourself if the injury bug hits the Bills again they will need players that are ready to play that game when another player gets injured.

Assuming the PS part of the CBA is left essentially unchanged, the rule is if you claim someone from another teams practice squad then you must put him on your 53 man active roster, or cut them. Now it is a risk to waive players with the intent of signing them to the PS, but you only have room for so many players on the active roster. I believe no team would claim an OT that the Bills waived (It saddens me to write that) given the state of our OTs. If they did it would imply that the Bills, at best, 5th rated OT would be better than what they have. It could happen I guess, but the risk would be minimal.

Our discussion got off on a bit of a tangent. My original post has the premise that Hairston is not capable of beating out 4 other OT candidates for a 53 man roster spot. You believe he is capable of that. One of us will be wrong.

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 20, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

I actually don’t believe he will be able to beat the other guys. I just said I don’t think that Gailey will put him on the PS this year, which I don’t believe has to do with his readiness.

One of us will be wrong.

As is almost always the case with disagreements :)

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 20, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

So, again, I ask what is the cut-off? Do all teams keep their Rd 1-4 draft picks on the roster? I doubt it.

100%? Probably not, but it’s pretty rare in the year that they are drafted. And it’s even more rare on good teams (because the team is deeper and it’s a later draft pick). Even 5th rounders don’t get cut too often in the year they were drafted.

If you think Hairston is one of the players kept (regardless of draft status) then which one of my 8 does not make the squad?

Well, they can easily carry 9 OL, and Hairston would likely be the guy not on the active roster on game day. I think that’s most likely.

But other than Wood, Levitre and Bell, I wouldn’t be shocked at anyone getting cut – they’re either players that were picked up off the scrap heap or in Hangartner’s case, could be a backup making starter’s money.

by Pistol on Jul 19, 2011 7:21 PM EDT reply actions

Well, they can easily carry 9 OL …

1-P
1-K
1-LS
3-QB
4-RB
6-WR
3-TE
8-OL
7-DL
9-LB
6-CB
4-S
____
53 TOTAL

With a 3-4 D might even carry 17 combined DL & LB, sacrificing a WR or CB. Bills had 5 Safeties (Whitner, Byrd, Wilson, Scott, Corto) on the roster part of the season. Don’t see how they would carry 9 O-Lineman.

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions

If they are serious about going full throttle 3-4, they might only keep 6 DL, or possibly only 9 DB.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 19, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

My breakdown was based on a “typical” 3-4 roster set-up. As we saw from the NE-NYJ playoff game in January, the roster can be skewed to include 7 CBs. I believe the Bills had at least 1 game with 10 LBs active. There was a Maybin sighting. My point is that if a higher number of players are kept at one position then another position must be reduced.

I could see 9 DB but I have a wait-and-see view based on FA acquisitions. Like my reply I just added to yours above, we just drafted 2 CBs and a Safety. If Florence or other similar CB added who are the odd men out? Corner/Youboty or ????

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 19, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes, I would think Corner or Youboty in that case. As we saw last year, they aren’t going to keep players from the Jauron era just for the sake of keeping them, so I don’t consider anyone from his time here completely safe.

My point is that if a higher number of players are kept at one position then another position must be reduced.

Right, which is why I said which other positions I thought would be reduced if they wanted to carry an extra OL.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jul 20, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions

I see your point on this.

It seems in the preseason so many people have high hopes for our new players, but if we have learned anything from the draft it is that not all rookies are going to make the cut. I believe Hairston will be one of those.

Last year. before preseason I had high hopes for Hardy and Chad Jackson. Hardy couldn’t separate or other problems, Jackson had bad hands. I also thought McKelvin was ready to show #1 CB ability. All wrong. In the end we will have to rely on the coaching staff to decide these things, and we will be left to lament “whatcuddaben” with our choices.

Year two is upon us.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jul 20, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

It will be interesting to see what new roster rules will be coming out in the new CBA, for a while they were discussing

eliminating the inactive 7 players and letting them play the game, others that they would go to 60 players and keep the inactive 7, who knows? We may be looking to fill out our roster before its all said and done.

abayarde- "All off the pain will vanish The Whagonblaster will return and with a new MOTOR and attitude even BIGGER AND stronger THE EYE of the Tiger , will knock our enemies to the next Galaxy , WE the BUffalo Nation DO not know defeat , We do not know Surrender , We only know that if we fall we get up stronger , faster, better WE have the Technology to BUILD IT"

by WABillsfan on Jul 19, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually steelers just did last year. He was a fourth round pick. It was his rookie season and got caught up in a numbers game. He was having a decent season if I remember correctly. He got cut and I was a little mad buddy did not grab him. He then went and claimed merriman off waivers.

"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus

by matthew62 on Jul 19, 2011 10:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I went Hang. I think Wood wins Center and Urbik starts at RG.

You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
Tweet
Buffalo Rumblings

by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2011 9:43 PM EDT reply actions

Precisely

Punt?! In our moment of triumph?! I think you overestimate their chances!!
Chan Gailey to Brian Moorman

by TexasBillsFanatic on Jul 19, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I took Urbik myself, but just because I think we see Wood slide over by the bye if the team is out of it

If were still in it, I think we see Hang stay at C

by WABillsfan on Jul 21, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Would Buddy trade?

We have a fair to good stack of interior linemen – but may not be able to keep all of them. The Titans interior is ungood and I think Hangartner would easily start for them + any of the guards we have, would at least compete. A Rookie QB + a weak interior could be a disaster for them. We are semi-loaded for the interior.

Would Buddy trade any of these guys for Titan picks next year?

by zipper on Jul 20, 2011 8:25 AM EDT reply actions