The Moats Plan

by J2 on Aug 1, 2011 12:07 PM EDT

I wonder fellow Rumblers if the plan to move Moats to the inside has been the plan all along. I know that I was perplexed on the idea of moving him inside but he really is a "tweener" for that OLB role. He isn't your traditional 3-4 OLB because he's a little "small" - for comparisons sake - Merriman is 6-4 265 while Moats is 6-2 250.

We all know that the jump from College to the NFL is a tough one - a leap that most cannot make actually. It's doubly tough if you've been playing at a smaller college like James Madison like Arthur Moats has. You don't have the better coaches and you don't play against elite competition. I think this is why he started at OLB last year even though they planned on moving him inside at some point.

More after the jump...

Moats played DE out of James Madison and the closest position to his old position in the 3-4 is the OLB. The responsibilities are similar but you're lining up as a LB. Lining up at an OLB allowed him to feel more comfortable in his role as a LB. Playing on the inside of a 3-4 you have to sift through the garbage and recognize how the play is developing. As a DE in college what did he read? - the blocker straight ahead of him - as a 3-4 OLB he now is reading Guards, Tackles and even the QB. Waiting to shift him inside makes sense because playing outside is a blend of what he was doing from what he is going to be asked to do - a natural progression if you will.

When you move inside as a 3-4 ILB there is a lot more information to process and much more garbage to sift through - moving to the ILB from an OLB when you were a DE in college might make some sense.

So what do you think Rumblers? Was that the methodology that Chan, Buddy and Edwards had with Moats from the beginning?

Poll

Was natural progression the plan with Moats as far as moving him inside?

Yes

57 votes

No

92 votes

149 votes | Poll has closed

Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.

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Comments

I have to say he was not planned on being an ILB

at the time he was drafted our ILB situation was a lot better than our OLB situation in the eyes of the new GM who had not yet had time to dissect our roster fully.

Arthur’s strength is pass rushing, something he showed last year as an OLB. They knew this coming out of college. I can’t imagine you take a guy who has a penchant for sacks and tackles behind the line in college and move him to a position where he can’t utilize those talents of shedding blocks and getting to QBs.

I also dont see his size as prohibitive for an NFL 3-4 OLB. James Harrison is 242 lbs and 5-11, DeMarcus Ware is 6’4, 247 lbs, Manny Lawson is 6’5, 240 lbs, Clay Matthews is 6’3, 246 lbs.

Moats is heavier than all those guys and is 6’2. I just dont see the tweener part.

Moats should be an OLB. I think he was drafted to be one too

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 12:15 PM EDT reply actions

well go ahead and scratch off some of those weights

one site says Ware is 247 another says he is 262. Hmm……looks like more research needs to be done before I can say those numbers are reliable.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

upon further review

looking at a bunch of reliable sites…

Ware….262 lbs.
Lawson…..240 lbs.
Matthews….255 lbs
Harrison….242 lbs

Either way, Moats’ size does not appear to be prohibitive in this league to being a 3-4 OLBer

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I voted no too because of other players, even undrafted players, were successful as “smaller”, if you will.

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Aug 1, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I do my own share of flip flopping on this though

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Aug 1, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions

i dont know if you remember

right after 2010 draft, moats was introduced as an ILB… that was the plan all along… its just us who want to see him as OLB and so twisting the reality…

he was moved to OLB because of injuries on the outside late last year

by statcruncher on Aug 1, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Arthur Moats was projected in the draft to be an OLB after being a college DE and I thought the Bills after selecting him moved him inside after seeing a bit of him in the off-season and deciding he might not be a good fit on the outside. I could be wrong.

Its not just us who want to see him at OLB. Most scouts see him as an NFL 3-4 OLB, or at least they did on draft day. Its really not twisting reality, I think its a genuine question that we can’t be sure about the mindset of the Bills coaching staff.

If they want to move him inside they want to move him inside, but he was projected by most scouts as a 3-4 OLB and he showed last year he was effective in that role.

I trust Wannstedt though.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions

scouts who cater to fans will obviously project him to be a 3-4 OLB as it makes common sense… i am sure team scouts are bit more savvy than that… otherwise george wilson will never be an SS starting as a WR… gates will never be a TE starting in basketball

by statcruncher on Aug 1, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

well...

its not like they were wrong based on last year? He started 4 games and had 2.5 sacks, 33 tackles and a forced fumble.

Arthur Moats himself has said he is more naturally suited and feels better playing OLB.

There can be a difference between savvy and overthinking it. Im still not sure Gailey drafted him with the intention of making him an ILB but rather moved him there after deciding he might not be a good fit in OTAs before changing his mind again.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions

I wonder how much input Gailey had on this decision. Seems like it would be an Edwards and Wannstedt decision.

Guess i’m not sure how much input he really has in the defense – other than bouncing ideas off of him – i’m sure he had to approve it though with some good evidence as to why it would be a good idea.

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Aug 1, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd imagine

this is a Wannstedt idea. George Edwards seemed to like him at OLB and with Wannstedt on board there apparently is a shift back inside

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

if he can handle the responsibility, let him play inside, get him on the field, he’s got speed and aggression…

by Jackson22 on Aug 1, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

moats is barely 6 feet tall

And has short arms
That is why he is seen as more the ILB prototype

by freddyjj on Aug 1, 2011 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions

He played ILB in preseason last year

So I voted yes.

He’s a late round pick. They liked his athleticism, production and character, and I gotta think they figured they’d find a role, be it OLB or ILB — i.e. he was always a developmental guy. Since they were already cross-training him last year, I think they’ve suspected he might have a higher ceiling inside since they put him there from the get-go. Sure, we had some ILBs, but they were mostly older or 4-3 holdovers, makes sense they wanted to see if they could develop a guy there.

As far as size, I think its his HEIGHT that is atypical — not weight, but he is basically the same as Harrison lighter but not too dissimlar from Dumervil. So its not a deal breaker.

by greysquirrel on Aug 1, 2011 12:35 PM EDT reply actions

His immediate impact would always be better at OLB and since we lost Schobel, Batten, and Maybin continued to disappoint, he was more valuable at that spot last year. But it could very well be he has more potential elsewhere. At this point I gotta trust the guys who do this for a living, because all I can say is he looked like he had potential at OLB — but thats a pretty casual opinion.

by greysquirrel on Aug 1, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

yea as you said

his height is a bit on the smaller side but not a deal breaker. I wouldnt even call Moats 6’2 height atypical as Koa Misi (6’3), Clay Matthews (6’3), Elvis Dumvervil (5’11), James Harrison (5’11), Lamarr Woodley (6’2), Cameron Wake (6’3), Tamba Hali (6’3), and Shaun Phillips (6’3) are all within his range.

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh I see moats listed at 6’0’’ but thats at NFL.com. Other places apaprently he is listed as 6’2’’ - hmmmmm not a small discrepancy.

by greysquirrel on Aug 1, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions

I think the Bills have been exaggerating, his pre-draft report said 6-0 and Gailey cited his height as 6 foot.

by greysquirrel on Aug 1, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

interesting...

that would make a big difference…

The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee

by poz on Aug 1, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I think you are correct. As I recall, he’s actually around 6’ 246.

by Malesherbes on Aug 1, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I remember having this debate last year and Brian chimed in with "trust me he is more like 6’ ". That isn’t reason enough, I’m guessing the metric is arm length (along with strength and explosion of course), which someone posted early, he has short arms. I would like to know the arm length of the elite OLB’s.

by garcia76 on Aug 2, 2011 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions

I think he was switched because he earned the opportunity.

He was switched to the outside because he was too good to sit behind the vets on the team that knew the position better, but that his athletic ability provided the opportunity for him to see the field so they game him the shot outside. this could happen again if there is injury but until that happens, he seems like a protypical size for ILB. Danny Batten I believe is bigger and would make more sense outside. Just some thoughts

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by VanScottM on Aug 1, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

I voted No.....he played outside last year out of necessity

I think Moats is being cross trained to play both inside and out. He will be the first LB off the bench at either position.

QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass

If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.

by Joe P. on Aug 1, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions

Haha

We all vote differently, but we seem to agree on the major points…

by greysquirrel on Aug 1, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Sounds about right.

I love the fact that Merriman seems to be healthy, having regained his burst speed. He will be huge for us if he can reclaim some of what he had. Being still young is a great bonus for us. I like the fact that Gailey is trying to give Moats an opportunity where there is some room for him. They can always switch him to the Outside if Merriman goes down.

Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience

by keysh67 on Aug 1, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Hybrid

with the cross between 3-4, 4-3…i.e. hybrid.. it just makes sense to cross train everyone, moving people around can be used to the D’s advantage.

by Jackson22 on Aug 1, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions

It doesn't matter...

How tall he is or what his weight is – if the guy can play, he’ll play – and the coaches will put him wherever they think he will make the most impact… remember too that he was a 6th round pick – I really doubt the Bills had an elaborate long term plan with him, since most 6th rounders don’t end up doing anything in the league… I like Moats, but I think people are a little to high on the guy on this site – he’s definitely shown some flashes, but there’s a good chance you won’t see him on the field a ton this year too…

by JustAskTheAxis on Aug 1, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions

but I think people are a little to high on the guy on this site

He gets some love from the national media too, I can’t remember the media outlets, but he made someone’s top 25 list maybe as a breakout player for 2011?

by garcia76 on Aug 2, 2011 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions

He was first listed as a ILB last year,

so that leads me to believe that is where they expected him to play and where they wanted him.

He was moved to outside only because they did not think he was playing well there.

"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-

by billsoferie on Aug 1, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions

"Don't Cross the Moats"

He’s a legend killer and needs to be able to rush from the edge to get at QBs

by billsfan26 on Aug 1, 2011 11:36 PM EDT reply actions

We are talking strong side here, correct? Was that what he played last year in preseason? Seems he has the physical tools to excel taking on blockers. It’s not like ILB never blitz either, being able to showcase his natural pass rushing ability on occasion. And if it’s not asking too much out of a second round, college DE, 6th round draft pick to learn 2 positions, they can slide him over when neccessary.

by garcia76 on Aug 2, 2011 7:56 AM EDT reply actions

Back up Merriman?

Perhaps the braintrust at OBD have determined he can get on the field more often at ILB instead of backing up Merriman.

"Being a Bills Fan is a Tough Job for Tough People…" – Luther6

by Montel on Aug 2, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions

Uggh – wish I could change my vote to yes.

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/9034669.php?pid=56979&archive=1

I’m definitely more comfortable this year with the changes because I’ve played outside and I knew the coverages better, so that’s going to help me out a lot," Moats asserted. “You’ve got to adapt with it.”

When you innovate, you've got to be prepared for everyone telling you you're nuts.

by J2 on Aug 2, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions