Bills Need To Open Up Competition At Right Guard
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 8:32 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Training Camp
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Back on August 1, as I was sitting in the bleachers at St. John Fisher watching one of the first few Buffalo Bills training camp practices of the 2011 season, MRW commented on the strong performance of Kraig Urbik in a one-on-one drill. Seconds later, he was staring at me, eyebrows raised in surprise, after I'd informed him that I thought Urbik was bad on tape in 2010, and that I'd rather the team handed the starting right guard job to Chad Rinehart.
After watching the first half of the Bills' pre-season loss Saturday night to the Chicago Bears, it could not be plainer that Urbik - the first-team right guard throughout camp after the team moved Eric Wood to center - is currently the weakest link in the starting offensive line. He was sufficient in pass protection, but struggled with athleticism in-line and in making blocks at the second level - exactly as he did last season before succumbing to injury.
It's time for Chan Gailey and Joe D'Alessandris (who has been on Urbik's case for much of camp) to open up the right guard competition to more competitors. They don't lack for options: Rinehart (the second-team left guard on Saturday), Geoff Hangartner (second-team center) and Mansfield Wrotto (second-team right guard, who also struggled mightily) are all capable. If Urbik is going to be this team's right guard, he needs to have earned it.
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Do you not agree that if Gailey thought any of the other candidates were better than Urbik for even a nanosecond, he would implement the switch immediately?
I can’t imagine him keeping a guy in the first team if he even started to think that a guy in the second team was better.
I didn’t say “switch.” I said “competition.”
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Understood, though I’m not sure if anyone in the organization really wants more publicized competitions than there have to be.
I’d expect them to just make the change, and then tell us later why they did so.
then tell us later why they did so.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that explanation.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
totally agree
The starting line looked pretty good. I wasnt paying close attention but most of the missed blocks seemed to be from Urbik. I would like to see Rinehart or Hang get some preseason reps with the first team. Although maybe the more Urbik gets playing experience the better he will get, but competition is definitely needed. I thought Erik Pears played well after everyone was so upset we didnt get Clabo. I think Pears will be fine.
Fitzmagic
Both Urbik and Wrotto were pretty bad on Saturday playing RG. Considering the somewhat positive reviews Rinehart received playing RG late last season, I’d be surprised if he didn’t enter the competition by the Denver game. As far as Hangartner goes, he’s a vet who will do a sufficient, unspectacular job anywhere on the interior. I think Buffalo can continue to hope one of the youngsters steps up for most of the preseason and if they all blow their chance, Hangartner can step right into the starting lineup in time for Kansas City with limited first team reps.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
No; he’s been the second-team center. Port Royal hit the nail on the head re: Hangartner at RG.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
With the tackle postions a question mark it is imperative that the Bills are strong in the middle. They might have to go back to Hang at center with Wood moving back to RG. Is Urbik 100% from his season ending injury?
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
Wood is not going anywhere
and why would you want him to? CHIX are trying to figure out who should play where for the future. They have to find out if Wood can play Center in the NFL.
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
the lesser of three evils
this situation points out the flaw in how CHIX has selected the candidates for the OL. The lack of performance should not surprise anyone. Talent is talent and this group has little beyond Wood and Levitre.
Wishing it so, won’t make it so. This is one really weak link in the rebuilding plan. And the weak link is getting no reinforcement or attention and by attention I mean bringing in OL men from elsewhere either through draft or FA. Picking off practice squad players has not/ will not solve the problem.
But, given the time of year and Nix’s penchant for the bargain bin, we are relegated to see what hand-me-downs are available come cut down day. Of course, anyone coming in will affect the “gelling” of the OL once again still (and let’s not even mention the injury factor)
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
by fansince60 on Aug 15, 2011 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
rec'd.....in most cases, you get what you pay for
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
idk
Even though I agree with you. I think Erik Pears was a good pick up and only time will tell. But don’t forget come the start regular season there will be many starting caliber veteran o-lineman that will be cut for younger players.
Fitzmagic
there will be many starting caliber veteran o-lineman that will be cut for younger players.
That’s kind of my point. Other teams are getting younger (and better) while we use their castoffs. When/how do we get better and therefore compete with these teams, which obviously is the ultimate goal?
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
I agree
but i think it is part of the plan: build through the draft. develop wang and hairston as the future tackles, draft a guard next year, and probably a tackle. But for the right now if we can get short term starting caliber veterans to help develop our young players, that would be good.
Fitzmagic
well said 60
Wishing it so, won’t make it so.
I like that comment and really think it applies here. It’s exactly the problem I have with the way they’ve gone about “building” this line. Grabbing a bunch of castoffs and hoping one sticks is just a poor way to do it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It's time to bring someone in
Like for example Alan Fanaca, given his age and the fact he’s still unsigned, he might be available fairly cheap.
Even though his skillet is on the downside he’s still better than anything we have and he’d bring a lot of leadership & wisdom to the unit.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Brian
I’ve been waiting for you guys work all weekend..Sunday was quite boring with out your analysis…let the fun begin!!
Jauron? Why does he matter?
Buddy Nix has had two offseasons to fix these problems and he’s added two raw prospects later in the draft (Wang, Hairston) and a bunch of players cut by other teams. This is all on Buddy Nix, considering Bell, Levitre and Wood were already in place, as well as Hang.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Not Exactly
They had some many places to fix and only so many ways to fix them. They’ve taken many steps to fill holes and there are still many left. If they don’t make major strides this year or in the next off season to repair the offense then I would expect it to be their last season with the organization. Their first draft they picked up a number of players to fill a variety of holes and needs around the team. It was also obvious they didn’t have much experience with the team and their picks were fairly haphazard but they had very few busts and many strong contributors. This last draft was focused primarily on the defense, the largest need on the team, and so far appears to be highly successful. 2012 will be for a QB prospect, OL needs, and long term holes.
Has Nix?
Not exactly.
He filled a “hole” which doesn’t need filling (RB) in Spiller with his first pick and all has picks have provent to be value over need. I am o.k. with that paradigm. But that still doesn’t solve problems.
Nix struck out in FA and didn’t land some needed parts. He has tried to sell us swamp land in Florida with such people like Pears, Urbik, Wrotto, Wang and others.
K and previous posters have hit the nail on the head. Picking up people from the scrap heap and hoping (PRAYING) one of them pays off does not guarantee anything.
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 15, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Nix also has made sure our defensive line has 3 potential pro bowers on it (merriman, dareus, williams).
Rome wasn’t built in a day
ummm...
1. He had nothing to do with Williams.
2. ANYONE picked 3rd overall has the potential to be a Pro-bowler (or should have the potential)
3. And annointing Merriman as having potential to be a Pro-bowler based on one preseason game is a little premature.
And EVERYONE has the POTENTIAL to be a pro-bowler.
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 15, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
1. duh
2. Gabbert, Peterson, Ponder, Locker, Smith were all available
3. Merriman is not a potential pro-bowler? I’m not basing it off of 1 preseason game – i’m basing that off of his career and the fact that if he stays healthy he’s got that talent.
And EVERYONE has the POTENTIAL to be a pro-bowler.
thanks for the update – I didn’t know that
by J2 on Aug 15, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree
And EVERYONE has the POTENTIAL to be a pro-bowler
i sure don’t. plenty of college players don’t even make a squad for a look. even of the 2000+ players in the league now, a full tenth of them won’t even be on a team after roster cuts. and then, i dare you to convince me Brian Brohm still has the potential to be a pro-bowler. How about Trent Edwards? Not everyone has potential to be a true star and consistently, and also be noticed, and respect by Pro Bowl voters. Merriman is a former pro bowl player, seems he could do it again. Williams has been a pro bowler… and plenty of early first rounders don’t necessarily have the potential. they only have the potential FOR potential… which is what many don’t recognize. not the same thing. ask maybin. he HAD potential to be potentially good. Now i wonder if others would agree with that assessment, as it doesn’t look like he even has the potential to be average anymore.
by ThaRealTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
More Physical
From looking at their measurements, Urbik seems to be the beefiest of our guards. Is he being favored in an effort to make the line more physical as Gailey has claimed he wants? If so, I’m curious to see how long Gailey gives him before settling opening the door to one of the other guys.
Also, for you guys who have been watching him closely, does it seem that he’s just unpolished and needs work or is he outright bad?
from my amateur view
It looked to be a technique\leverage issue. He seemed to get pushed off balance and allowed defenders to get under his shoulder pads.
Exactly. Urbik has been favored because of his size.
Gailey has said he wants to get bigger on both the o- and d-lines, and favoring Urbik is part of that. However, it seems to me that Gailey also likes his interior o-linemen to be quick and mobile, and if that is what you want Rinehart is your guy. Based on what we saw last year, he would be my choice for RG, followed by Hangartner and then Urbik. But then again the coaching staff may be trying to find out exactly what Urbik’s potential is, on the thought that they already know Rinehart and Hangartner.
I hate having OL over 6'5"
Once they get over that height, it is too easy for defenders to get under their pads and get leverage. Tall guys usually are poor run blockers. Look at Dockery when he was here, he couldn’t get a good push in short yardage if his life depended on it.
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by The Buffalo Kid on Aug 15, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand what so far has suggested competition hasn’t been open.
Check out buddynixon.com for more of my work.
Let’s start with the fact that nobody else has gotten first-team reps at RG. I guess if you want to argue that last year’s QB “competition” was “open,” then the same logic applies to this one, too.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
To me, that doesn’t indicate that it’s not open. Gailey in the press conference more or less said as much, saying that he was disappointed in the execution some of the line guys and that they had some work to do to figure out who was going to step up. I’m reading that as Urbik, along with rest of our awful backups.
Check out buddynixon.com for more of my work.
If you don't give other guys first team reps....it's not a true open competition...
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Practice reps too, though....
I haven’t been privy to the practice lineups, but Brian seems to believe nobody else has gotten reps at RG with that first unit at all. Rinehardt deserves some in practice, and then definitely during the next two games. Him and Urbik should rotate series over the next two games, IMO. Let the best man win.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Rinehardt deserves some in practice, and then definitely during the next two games. Him and Urbik should rotate series over the next two games, IMO. Let the best man win.
you sure? Rhinehart isn’t even the 2nd guard off the bench.
The first watch I thought Urbik was awful – the 2nd and 3rd times after I paid sole attention to him I didn’t think he was bad at all.
He wasn't?
I had the Bears broadcast, which didn’t provide a great view for who was on the OL at what time, and they rarely showed replays. Who was 2nd, Hang? Wrotto? I know I saw Wrotto get abused a number of times.
Rinehardt was the 2nd LG though, I thought?
Either way, I think this should be more of a competition. Urbik, Rinehardt and Hang each deserve a chance to start.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It was wrotto at rg – actually wasn’t paying attention to LG was more interested in backup rg-RT and lt. Regardless he wasn’t first rg out is what I was getting at – I thought he would be too
by J2 on Aug 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t agree with that. Just because Urbik isn’t locked in as a starter, it doesn’t mean everyone gets an equal shot at the job. While Urbik wasn’t underwhelming as a starter, the backup guards were equally bad or worse going against Chicago’s backups. Competition means you have to show something and so far no one else has.
Check out buddynixon.com for more of my work.
this does feel a lot like last year's QB competition
they might be giving Urbik every chance to succeed with the 1’s, and if he doesn’t do well or show fast improvement he’ll get cut. maybe they feel like they know what they have with Rinehart/Hang (steady if unspectacular play, maybe not as much potential as Urbik). They wasnt to see how Urbik fares when he is thrown into the fire, not how well he does against the second teamers to justify a roster spot for him.
Is it too much for me to ask that our potential QB of the future is athletic, accurate, and smart? Or at least two of those?
I was going to mention that too
but I was letting last yr & #5 go for both OBD & BR admin/mgmt .)
on the other hand, oline reserves were nearly outrageous & the thought of moving someone up, other than Hang, is scary.
"Alright Men, lets go out there, bust um in the chops & get somebody bloody. If your not a superstar you best be sweating that ass off. Take the W in battle & make the Bills Nation Proud."
by Blood, sweat & Win on Aug 15, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Just rewatched the first two series in detail. The o line looked WAY better than the crap storm of negative comments I’ve been seeing here. Ubrik looks impatient in his chip block. Too quick to the next level…and even then looks more herky jerky than stout at the pt of attack.
It's simple, but it aint easy. *2
by Undee on Aug 15, 2011 9:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Ubrik looks impatient in his chip block. Too quick to the next level…and even then looks more herky jerky than stout at the pt of attack.
Sorry, IMO, that doesn’t sound “WAY better” to me. :-)
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
He was talking about the line when he said “way better,” not Urbik specifically.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Urbik – the first-team right guard throughout camp after the team moved Eric Wood to center – is currently the weakest link in the starting offensive line….exactly as he did last season
OK, but you don’t sound like it’s “way better” either….a chain (in this case tthe line) is only as strong as its weakest link. Call it a jump in logic if you want, but, logically the line then is not way better. In fact, as stated, its the same as last year.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
It is a jump in logic, and no, I don’t agree with it. “Way better” is a stretch, but I thought the team’s pass protection – aided by a lot of quick throws and short drops, of course – was more than sufficient against Chicago.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Got it. On another note, when you say:
aided by a lot of quick throws and short drops
Do you think those tactics will hold up throughout the season, i.e. will they be (should they be) enough to overcome the shortcomings on the line? (Just askin’)
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
does it matter?
Do you think those tactics will hold up throughout the season,
Unless the Oline gets better, Fitz won’t have time to throw deep….thus Evans departure.
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
agree
the tactics are a bandaid, stop gap, whatever cliche` you choose. I just wish they’d address the line (hello line!) and correct the problem the conventional way…
Wishful thinking at this point.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
yep.....I wonder how long before the Bills version of the "Chuck N Duck" gets it's own nickname???
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
lol
Thus us picking Luck 1st over all next yr. And people think Nix and Co. have no plan!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 15, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It’ll be enough to mask the majority of the line’s issues. They’ll be functional. The real question is whether or not they’ll be good enough as a running unit to open up the play-action, with which Fitzpatrick absolutely torched defenses last season (see: Baltimore).
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 15, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
That hits the nail on the head
Run-blocking is going to be the key to whether the O takes a big step forward this year or not. Last year it was iffy. If the o-line can step up the run-blocking it will make a world of difference and we will be likely to see a lot more games like the one against Baltimore last year, exactly as Brian says. It will also make pass protection easier.
seems like we would run more
if we were concerned with trying to improve run blocking. Bell looked good against Peppers with pass protection
by ThaRealTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
a lot of quick throws and short drops
will indicate a week offensive line because there is no way we will survive success if that is what our spread offense will bring. We will need to stretch the field and will need the protection to allow time to do this. The quick throws and short drops was mainly due to the fact that the team has had two weeks to practice the offense and get in sinc. This will develop as will Urbik and Rinehardt as we move forward. We very well be on a good topic here with Urbik being the weakest link but we could also be a little ahead of ourselve too.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
way better
Than the comments here indicate.
Not way better than last year. Come on ’60.
It's simple, but it aint easy. *2
by Undee on Aug 15, 2011 2:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just rewatched the first two series in detail. The o line looked WAY better than the crap storm of negative comments I’ve been seeing here.
yup – just had my 2nd rewatch (yes people 3 times for this loser) and I thought Urbik didn’t play bad at all – i saw one bad play and that was it – he played much better than I thought – Brian how did you come to this conclusion?
Bell looked good too – I thought the o-line played decent – Chan needs to stick with the run more to get this group gelling.
That’s my impression as well. Urbik was fine except for one awful play, although he doesn’t offer the athleticism (and thus the ability to get out front on running plays) that Rinehart does. As for sticking to the run, Fitz said after the game that they were very concerned about injuries due to the bad turf and that they deliberately pulled Freddie and C.J. out of the game for that reason.
Rinehardt could very well end up at right guard.
If he does than I wouldn’t exactly throw Urbik to the curb. The kid just may need more time to develop. Ubik was brought in early last season, I believe back in September. He has learned as much of the system as anyone else on the line. He is a bigger, stronger but slower player than Rinehart, he could just use a little more time. Rinehardt on the other hand would be the competitor of choice if Gailey does decide to throw a wrinkle into the system. I still would wait another week and evaluate them in a second game. This way they both would have a week of tape to review, adjustments to make, planning to work on. My point is with the lockout and thiere first every real opportunity to be #1 we should let them develop and yes no team as enough time to wait on this, but we if anyone needs to get it right more than most teams.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
many did, it was an unknown
Urbik was brought in back in September2010, Rinehardt arrived shortly after mid season. Urbik has had more time in the system and really only lacks the speed to pull compared to Rhinehart not to mention he is about 20 pounds heavier. Still Urbik and Rinehardt are 3rd round picks from other clubs and those picks tend to develop in year three more than the year they were drafted, now is the time for both to step forward and showcase thier talents. My point is that the lockout didn’t help thier development and may require a tad bit more time to settle in. Rinehardt is still learning the plays at the LOS but at least he has Hang next to him teaching him those calls.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
A very good point
The right-hand side of the o-line is brand new this year, while the left side is now well-established. Given the reality of the lockout, I think Van is exactly right that we need to be patient in allowing things to get sorted out on the right side. The good news is that Pears (whose name is apparently pronounced “Peers”) looked decent at RT.
Urbik
It’s year 3 in the NFL for him, if he doesn’t start showing improvement now, why should we expect him to develop at some point down the line?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
We absolutely should expect improvement from him and Rinehardt
As you say it is year three, two as developing/playing, strength and conditioning, time to play or move on. This is what Brian is eluding too, competition. Actually a very well thought out plan by Buddy’s guys. Another thing, is that he is playing with a 1st unit and that unit is going up against players like Dareus, Williams and Edwards, with a Merriman and Barnett occasionally meeting in the second level. This is a good competition for him in practice. They stacked what talent they could on the interior without drafting such since Wood and LeVetrie, this is part of the process I would assume, with the best of the bunch surviving.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
again
what competition? he is getting a long look, with seemingly no one on his heals. it is basically a de facto start. we are porous. be nice to know how good the run blocking could be if we even got 50/50 play calls for it.
by ThaRealTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Although I wouldn’t mind the position open to competition, I thought Urbiks’ craptitude paled in comparison to his back-up, Mansfield Wrotto. Urbik whiffed to my count 3 times and I thought Wrotto looked worse against the 2’s. Not saying Rinehart shouldn’t get a look, just saying Wrotto shouldn’t be part of the conversation.
By my count Urbik whiffed on two plays. However, on one of them he whiffed blocking Urlacher, who was actually Eric Wood’s assignment. Wood had slipped on the turf and Urbik, in what seemed to me a very alert move, made his best effort to block Urlacher before the Chicago MLB blew up the play. Unfortunately, Urbik was not able to stop both his own man and Urlacher.
Not to steer the conversation away from the interior but does anybody know how Hairston performed at RT?
didn't play
minor injury kepth him out.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I had the same problem with Nic Barnett,. Were allowed.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I want to see Rinehardt get first team reps
I thought he was the best of this bunch last year and deserves the chance to prove that again.
Urbik just looks too stiff to me. He just looks like a big, bulky guy that doesn’t move well laterally or in space. If I recall correctly, Rinehardt is the better athlete, which would seem to be a better fit for this offense. If we run a lot of screens, runs to the outside with Spiller and roll with the spread approach, it might be better to have the best athlete at RG. That might also mean Hang, but I can’t remember how he looks in space.
One thing is certain, I want Mansfield Wrotto nowhere near this final roster. I thought he was terrible last year. On Saturday he was just atrocious. Holy crap, Okoye just abused that guy. He looked like he was wearing cement shoes trying to block guys. Please, do not keep this guy!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
One thing is certain, I want Mansfield Wrotto nowhere near this final roster.
I hate jumping to conclusions, but I honestly cannot think of a worse performance by an O-Lineman… And that was against 2nd stringers!!!
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 15, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrotto
I wrote that a couple of weeks ago, and Brian said it was 100% that he would make the team due to his contract. Very depressing, but he could be wrong :)
Something I have not seen debated much is where these guys came from. Would you vote Pitt, Sea, and Wash, in the top 50% of O-lines last year? That’s where these guys came from. Very subjective, but there was no logjam of talent and they couldn’t make those teams.
The ugliest Urbik play was a 3rd down screen to Spiller in the 1st quarter. Isolated one on one with a head of steam against a linebacker, Urbik allows the linebacker to gently brush him aside to wrap up Spiller short of the 1st down. Pathetic.
As far as the sentiment that the line played well in pass protection, I think it’s inaccurate. It’s clear to me that Gailey recognizes just how inadequate this unit is and is building an offense to mask this. The offense is tailored around short drops and quick reads and a running game that will be built on trying to trick the opponent rather than outplay them.
Don’t kid yourselves. This offensive line is about as bad of line as there is in the league and the depth behind the inadequate starters is downright pathetic. If Gailey is able to create a competent offense in spite of this collection of mostly subpar players, he deserves all the credit in the world. My prediction is that like last year, there will be games where Gailey and the coaches successfully conjure up points by catching teams off guard, but overall this will not happen frequently enough and the result will be an offense in the bottom fifth of the league. It’s going to be rough on offense in 2011. Real rough.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Aug 15, 2011 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The ugliest Urbik play was a 3rd down screen to Spiller in the 1st quarter. Isolated one on one with a head of steam against a linebacker, Urbik allows the linebacker to gently brush him aside to wrap up Spiller short of the 1st down. Pathetic.
rewatch – that was Woods assignment – Wood fell down and Urbik picked it up. I saw it that way the first time too but that’s not what happened – Also Spiller needs to read his blocks better there – I saw 2 runs in which he fialed to read his blocks properly
I watched the play several times this morning. I have no idea whose assignment each play is and won’t pretend I do. I do know Urbik was one on one with a linebacker in open space and his inability to create the smallest of pushes killed the drive.
I agree 100% on Spiller’s need to get better at reading blocks. His instincts are Maybin-esque at times early in his career.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
Maybin looked so bad it was pathetic – 2nd and 3rd depth o-line players for the Bears were pushing him all around like he was a ping pong ball.
Maybin doesn’t belong on a football field and certainly not in a Bills uniform – from what I saw – he should and hopefully will get cut the first round of cuts.
I agree 100% on Spiller’s need to get better at reading blocks. His instincts are Maybin-esque at times early in his career.
Don’t worry. Spiller will learn this in time…in time to use the skill with his next team after becoming a free agent. For a #9 pick to take 2-3+ years to learn his trade epitomizes our “farm team” mentality. It’s “classic Bills”. They put the cart before the horse(cart=Spiller; horse=OL)…to make matters worse, the horse is lame.
On this team, a #9 pick should be contributing, starting, and starring from day one.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
correct
he lost the leverage when cj moved left, if i am on the right play. the screen was similar. it seemed his bigger issue was leverage. but remember levitre getting blown up, pushed into Edwards face??? i mean, there is a chance for more improvement outta Urbik still. I just am not holding my breath. he is a big man, who isn’t real fast, and stands up a bit too much, especially if we expect him to run screens and zone blocks for runs.
by ThaRealTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
No!
Don’t use Maybin and Spiller in same sentence, its a rule!:) I just started. I’m hoping its more no O/L versus unable rookie RB, kinda rookie.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 15, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I missed something? ....
Why did we move Wood to center? I understand he played there during college. Did Hangartner play that bad to force him out of that position? Wood, I thought plays the RG position very well so I do not understand the reason for that move. Now, instead of just OT needing upgrades and depth, it looks like we need a RG. What did we accomplish by removing Hangartner and replacing him w/ Wood?
It is this simple
Our O-Line as defined by current players is better (on a whole), if Hang plays center and Wood is at RG.
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 15, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
our offensive line wasn’t bad – the 2nd unit was – but the first unit wasn’t bad at all. I stand by that
as i rewatched
i agree. still potential. Pears gets too tall (surprise) and so did urbik in space. but they are some big dudes, and the left side was as good as last year. whether that is a comfort or not is dependent on the right side’s ability to keep up.
by ThaRealTruth on Aug 15, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I am getting Optimistic but...
If the season falls apart it will be due to the right side of the offensive line caving in.
by Section312@theRalph on Aug 15, 2011 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
After I re-watched the game last night I have to agree with J2 - Urbik wasn't as bad as first impression
His game Saturday reminded me of Levitre’s first game where his failures were in plain sight.
I saw 3 bad plays from Urbik and only 1 of which was an utter failure.
1. He was blown up on a, attempted, off tackle run by Spiller – no excuse for him there, anchor son, anchor.
2. Pulling to the left he gets caught up with LB shooting the gap the Bell decides to pickup at the last minute. Bell hesitated a bit on his pickup of the LB, but Urbik should have turned up into the hole – this is example of him being uncomfortable in space.
3. Missing Urlacher on the Spiller screen. Yes, Wood was supposed to pick him up as you can tell by him reaching out for him as he fell to the sloppy turf, but Urbik needs to have better awareness and pick him up since no one else was close to him.
To me it confirms what Brian said, he’s not good in space. Will he improve? Probably a little bit, but not much.
and to clarify
I thought he was only adequate when scraping onto LB’s. As long as the team doesn’t ask him to pull often then I think he can be an adequate G for a few years.
I wouldn’t want to see first team reps pulled from him just yet. These guys are all coming off an extended break and many looked rusty. especially the WR’s in my opinion.
look let me be straight with ya'll
Anybody but Wrotto.
Isn’t Brian waters available?
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Hmm
Finally a defense for our O/L to practice against. Hope it makes our O/L better. Would seem like each player would have to earn their spot/position. Good thing we have options!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
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