Bills Training Camp: Five Risers And Five Fallers
Buffalo Bills training camp officially reached its conclusion on Thursday with the final camp practice of the 2011 season. While the Bills pack up and head back west to Orchard Park, we'll recap the biggest risers and fallers of camp. In our view, there are five players who saw their stock soar at St. John Fisher College, and five more who didn't do so well.
Five Risers: These five Bills players saw the most significant gains in the court of public opinion over the past three weeks.
- WR Donald Jones. When camp began, Jones was a low-end depth chart guy - a fifth receiver at best - that most believed would stick thanks to special teams prowess. Now he's the front-runner to be the team's No. 2 receiver after the trade of Lee Evans. You don't make bigger training camp gains than that, folks.
- LG Chad Rinehart. Chan Gailey may not be pleased with the goings-on up front, but there was a very real chance that Rinehart might be on the roster bubble when camp started. Now, it's a possibility that he could start at either guard position, and he's a virtual lock to make the team.
- DE/OLB Alex Carrington. The second-year lineman out of Arkansas State came into camp much bigger and stronger, but maintained enough athleticism that the coaching staff felt comfortable using him at outside linebacker. He's been a very effective defender from both positions to this point in the pre-season.
- OLB Danny Batten. With Arthur Moats moving inside, Batten has risen to the top of the team's very young outside linebacker reserves in a short amount of time. Gailey, not one to hand out effusive praise on a whim, called Batten a "pleasant surprise" and praised his work ethic in a recent interview.
- TE Scott Chandler. Perhaps he simply looks good because of the dearth of talent the Bills have had at this position for years, but Chandler has emerged as the clear top tight end on the team, and could possibly be a passing game factor for Ryan Fitzpatrick this season.
Five Fallers: If they could do it all over again, these five Bills players would be most anxious for a change in a positive direction during training camp.
- LG Andy Levitre. A full-time starter since his rookie season, Levitre is suddenly fighting tooth and nail to keep the left guard job he's held without competition for two years.
- ILB Kelvin Sheppard. GM Buddy Nix touted Sheppard as a possible starter when he was drafted. Today, he's shelved with a hamstring injury while the Bills have gotten deeper and more versatile in front of him on the depth chart.
- TE Shawn Nelson. The 2009 fourth-round pick is again missing copious amounts of practice time (this time due to a leg injury, not migraines), and if he can't make it back onto the field for a pre-season game or two, he's a likely roster casualty.
- C Geoff Hangartner. Last year's starting center is now the backup center, has not received much (public) consideration for a starting guard job despite upheaval at both positions, and was not hand-picked by Gailey as a reserve worthy of starting consideration the way Rinehart was.
- WR David Nelson. With Evans out of the picture, it seems that every Bills receiver's position has changed but Nelson's. Jones is now a starter and Roscoe Parrish is in for a bigger role, but Nelson still seems entrenched as a slot-specific fourth receiver in Chan Gailey's offense.
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I really liked David Nelson last year. Id hope he could find a bigger role this year, especially with Lee being gone. Hopefully he steps it up over the next few preseason games. He has sure hands, and always seems to get open.
Shun the non Billievers!
Nelson is a red zone threat
so he has a niche already just needs to expand that role once the season starts
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
by BRIANMULHALL on Aug 20, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
UDFA's
Interesting that we’ve heard virtually nothing about any of the un-drafted rookies. For years now there were always a few who at the very least received lots of press and a number who actually made the final roster. Is this an indication of the growing depth of the team (minus of course the O line), poor selection in UDFA’s, or just a quirk for this year.
UDFAs con't......
I think it is because it was a weak class. Normally, the Bills get a couple guys that were supposed to be drafted by some accounts and/or their college carreer made you think the guy might make it . Whether, this class of UDFAs was unspectacular because it was a shallow draft or not I don’t know.
gobills!
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 19, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Sheppard
Is he playing this weekend? Does anyone know by any chance?
http://twitter.com/#!/CLoSkills - Sports talk/opinions on Twitter, follow and I'll return the favor.
He hasn’t practiced yet so I doubt it.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 19, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
David Nelson
How is his stock falling when he’s in the same position he was in last season? Doesn’t make sense to me.
As Big Tom Callahan once said, “If you’re not growing, you’re dieing.”
by MattRichWarren on Aug 19, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up the butchers…. Wait, no, it has to be your cow.
"It’s like I’ve always said, don’t tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby."
- Buddy Nix
"How can a guy with a name like Melo be such a pain in the ass?"
- George Lopez
by dnvrBillsfan on Aug 19, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Well essentially, if Lee Evans is gone and he was the 4th WR. Everyone would move up a spot, and since he did not that means his stock fell because he would naturally move up a spot, but since he stayed the same it looked like he moved up by default and dropped one more spot with the play of Donald Jones leap frogging him.
http://twitter.com/#!/CLoSkills - Sports talk/opinions on Twitter, follow and I'll return the favor.
His is more of a relative fall. He’s the one receiver that hasn’t gained depth chart positioning post-Evans trade.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Has Roscoe really gained position either? It seems the slot-specific receivers have stayed put. I just think that since their value is in the slot, they are really not ‘depth’ – Roscoe is Slot #1, Nelson is Slot # 2. As the #1 slot receiver I would imagine Roscoe is on the field a lot. Where Nelson will alternate with Spiller in 5 WR sets.
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
by syrbillsfan on Aug 19, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
'scoe will get more targets now.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Fitzpatrick told PFT Live that Parrish’s role would be expanding.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Four receiver set includes David Nelson
plus the multiple matchup problems he could cause due to his size. Still a great moving the chains threat.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Training camp
For me, the biggest disappointment of this training camp has been the inability of the class of 2011 to stay on the field. Sheppard, Hairston, and Rogers have missed a ton of time and now White is going to be out for awhile as well. Last year, Easley, Batten, and Wang all missed plenty of time in camp and as a result, they are practically rookies a year later. The 2010 draft class had a wildly unproductive year as a whole and I just hope the early injuries to the rookies of 2011 above are cleared up quickly so their development can begin and their careers can get going quicker and more efficiently.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
I agree. I think it has a lot to do with the lack of OTAs this year. People have said this was going to be hard on the rookies because of the lockout, and I think we’re seeing the results.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
.. but the good news
…is that none of them are on IR. We’ll see them, just a little later than we’d like.
It's getting Late....
Maybe they go on the IR and we can save them for next year….like Batten and easley this year….. ; )
gobills!
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 19, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Chris White will be back soon it's only a sprained ankle
Say what ever you want we still have our Lombardi and there's nothing you can do about it
by mississippisaintsfan on Aug 20, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Same question was asked above
and there were 4 answers, scroll up to see your answer
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Aug 19, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Chris brown...
Has mentioned that he is making plays a couple times…..against the twos….
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 19, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he looks good in CB’s training camp recaps I’ve been watching. Plus he had an ok kick return in the Chicago game.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Sheppard's hammy injury that bad?
Or are they simply being extra-cautious not to make it a lingering injury since we have some depth at ILB at the moment?
by NordicBillsfan on Aug 19, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
hamstrings....
are notoriously frustrating, most play it safe to avoid reinjury.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 19, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, the Levitre/Rhinehart/Urbik thing makes zero sense.
Formerly of thatguy34 fame.
"And the best decision of my life proved to be the day I signed with the Buffalo Bills." - Jim Kelly
by Jon Harrington on Aug 19, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
I see
The Levitre/Rhinehart/Urbik situation playing out like the QB play of last,( hopefully not same results) were it took 2 regular season games to figure out what they really like.
My question is
Wheres the Stinchcomb signing??
With such a poor level of talent up front Stinchcomb could give us a boost especially the 2nd teamers, or a swing T/G.
With David Nelson, he’s a nieche guy, So Brian I totally understand the sentiment that if he can’t move up when the team treades their starting WR. then I see it as a fall as well.
The SHeppard falling I don’t agree with. He’s been hurt and I still believe the team is very high on him regardles of in jury or not.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 19, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
My understanding is that he had/has an injury which has really limited him and is still affecting him. Not sure he’d be better than what we have.
by sevenwords on Aug 19, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I dunno, Chan seemed pretty pissed about not getting the rookies on the field.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Aug 19, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm I the only one who hasn't seen Batten do anything?
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions
meant to say AM I the only one
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
You must’ve missed his two-sack pre-season game.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
guess I DID miss something
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
altho in my defense...
one of Batten’s sacks was for no gain on a scramble, and the other I mistakenly credited to Carrington.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Although Batten was credited with two sacks, I’m not too crazy about how they moved Moats to make room for him. The move was probably made early so Moats could learn a new position but I would have loved to see them compete for the position. And the height issue is BS to me.
I don't like that move either.
He started inside last year and struggled. He was the most positive development of the season last year and now it seems we’ll be lucky to see him on the field.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
*most positive development on defense
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
But if they both pan out at their respective roles, than it could be that we have pass rushing OLB and pass rushing ILB sewn up for a few years…wouldn’t that be worth it? Especially since during the offseason a lot of us were clamoring for depth at both positions.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Wasn’t that him about 20 yards downfield covering a receiver in the Chicago game?
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Aug 19, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions
Supposed to be a reply to Sawyer in Boston.
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Aug 19, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know.
But he’s the one player I keep hearing talk about, but haven’t seen anything so far in practice or in that game. I’ll keep a special eye out Saturday.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 19, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
That was Chris White.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Strange
Based on what I saw last week, I would have expected to see Andra Davis, Naaman Roosevelt and Kellen Heard on that list. Chandler was unimpressive as a receiver to say the least, and Carrington reminds me too much of Ryan Denney (they both wear #92, maybe that’s part of it).
Chandler
Didn’t he have that horrible drop on the first drive of the Bears game? Maybe I am missing something, but the only reason he is rising is by default (per your lack of talent statement).
I am very disappointed OBD did not address this position in the offseason, there were MANY options out there. But I guess I shouldn’t be surpised based on their movement (lack thereof) in FA.
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 19, 2011 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
But I guess I shouldn’t be surpised based on their movement (lack thereof) in FA.
since Buddy Nix said they weren’t going to be active in FA from the moment he was hired – you shouldn’t be surprised.
:)
by J2 on Aug 19, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And on the fallers list
I expected to see Torrel Troup and Buster Davis (the ostensible reason Evans was traded). But I give Troup a pass because of his broken hand. And Johnny White didn’t look particularly impressive except from a durability perspective. He ran hard every play without appearing winded, but didn’t show good cutting or tackle breaking capability.
Troup had a good camp.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Some quibbles
1) Chad Rinehart was NEVER in danger of not making the roster. He played well last year when he subbed at RG and he was always under consideration for a possible starting job, although the coaching staff decided to let Urbik get the first shot as the starter at RG. The one thing that has changed is that Levitre has been disappointing so far and Rinehart is now getting a serious look as a starter at LG, but Urbik remains a question mark and Rinehart may end up there when everything shakes out.
2) Kelvin Sheppard has been injured, but Chan Gailey knows what he can do from the Senior Bowl and still loves him. Shep will definitely make the roster (as will Chris White), but both may not get as much playing time right away because of their training camp injuries. If they have “fallen,” it’s only by an inch or so.
3) I don’t think David Nelson has “fallen” at all, but remains solidly within his former role. When I was at training camp I noticed that Nelson was always included among the Bills’ “elite” receivers in the 7-on-7 drills — he was out there in the same group with Stevie Johnson, Jones, Chandler, Fred Jackson and Spiller. He is going to see a lot of action this year if he stays healthy. My own hunch is that Jones is not going to make it as Lee’s replacement — his hands aren’t good enough, and he doesn’t have that much speed — with the result that Nelson will replace him in that role as the season wears on.
4) I agree that Levitre has “fallen” this season, and I wonder if part of the reason is his conditioning. I observed him sweating buckets (literally) the other night when all the guys on the team weren’t dropping so much as one bead of sweat that I could see. He is also noticeably smaller than Rinehart when they stand next to each other. He is smart and athletic, though, so I wouldn’t count him out.
by Macktruck on Aug 19, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Great Analysis
Thanks, Mack. Rec’d
Re: point 3 – do you think they will bring in Houshmanzadah (sp?) to take over Lee Evans role?
and Point 4 – I think Chan wanted to light a fire under Levitre, and it looks like he succeeded.
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Aug 19, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t know any more than I do that Rinehart wasn’t in danger of losing his job. There’s just as much logic to my argument as yours. And I didn’t say that he wouldn’t make the roster; I said he was on the bubble.
I also mentioned above that Nelson’s fall has been relative, not necessarily literal.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I might have missed it
But I’ve heard so much about Jones’ improvement but I really haven’t heard how he’s improved over last year to pass everyone else. Is he more explosive and seems to catch more balls than everyone else or does he just fit the description of a #2 over almost all besides an oft injured Easley? Watching the Chicago game didn’t help either.
Rinehart said that he came into training camp with the clear expectation that he would be competing for a starting job. Perhaps that was hubris on his part, but it is more likely that the coaches told him that during his exit interview last January. Also, numerous sources including Chris Brown and Mark Gaughn were reporting that Rinehart would be in contention for a starting position. For example, Gaughn wrote on July 30 in an article about the battles he expected to see in training camp that both Urbik and Rinehart were former third-round picks who “have ability” and would either end up as starters or as reserves this year. I think the preponderance of evidence was that Rinehart was likely to make the roster, to the point where if he didn’t it would have been a surprise.
Brian, in general I think you do a great job of assessing where the Bills stand in terms of personnel and I learn a lot from you, but on this one issue I think you have been off as a matter of emphasis (yes, Rinehart was one of four players competing for two slots at OG with the Bills likely to keep three on the roster, but possibly four — in that sense he was “on the bubble,” but only slightly).
And yes, you are right that you said Nelson’s “fall” was only relative, not literal, but you did list him among the five “fallers.” Again, it’s a matter of emphasis. What I was trying to suggest was that, based on how Nelson is being treated at training camp, it would appear that the team is counting on him as one of their main WR’s. Or to put it another way, I think his status is higher on the WR pecking order as we start 2011 than it was in 2010. Whether or not things work out that way during the season only time can tell, but in essence I see him as a “riser” when all things are considered. I’m also guessing (making gut predictions can be fun) that he is going to rise even more.
wow, sensitive aren't we
geez, how dare anyone question your knowledge….or perspective…
sometimes it is better to let the chips fall where they may…not be
so hyper sensitive to criticism.
I think Brian has every right to stand by his position, just as the rest of us have the right to disagree with him. By debating each other we often come to see things that we would have missed otherwise.
by Macktruck on Aug 19, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How was he literally sweating buckets? That might be one of the grossest images out of any training camp.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Aug 19, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It WAS gross. I had my high-powered binocs trained on him and the fluid was coming out of his helmet as if it was a pipe with the spigot turned fully on. I have never seen any human being give off that much sweat. This was when he was lined up before the snap in 11-on-ll work. Maybe that’s how his body works, but it left me wondering if he was one of the guys (there were said to be a few) who reported to camp in worse shape than they should have.
One additional point of interest. In his Livechat this morning Mark Gaughn said he thought that Hangartner was the one most in danger of being cut, primarily because Gailey wants to get bigger in the middle of the o-line. He thinks Levitre is likely to keep his starting job (I’m not so sure about that — I think Levitre could be the main back-up at OG and C). Gaughn also says we shouldn’t worry about the interior o-line — it’s going to be just fine. The big problem, he said, was depth at OT.
Relax, everyone . . .
The article title was, “Five Risers And Five Fallers” — not “Five Risers And Five Goners” . . .
Circumstances largely beyond the control of the Fallers — injuries, the lockout-shortened off-season activity, contributed to them being fallers.
Of the five “Fallers”, the only one who’s truly a “Goner”, is Shawn Nelson — for reasons already well-established {lack of size, lack of blocking ability, problems getting and staying on the field}
The “Fallers” all have, or will have, legitimate opportunities to reverse their status:
With Parrish’s leg injury , D. Nelson has the opportunity to move into the slot/3WR.
Hang hasn’t been considered for a guard spot because . . . he’s a center, not a guard. And he’ll likely go back to that as soon as Wood is moved over {which I guesstimate will occur about 3 weeks into the season}
Sheppard’s injury prevented him from being an instant starter at ILB; Barnett’s signing made that unnecessary, at least for now.
Levitre, as noted, has had the requisite fire lit under him by Rinehart.
.
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
Hmmm
I agree with all expect Levitre and Nelson.
Levitre – Guess I can’t really say too much about a guy who may no longer be a starter when he has been a starter…. but I don’t think he has fallen from anything yet.
Nelson – If Nelson remaining in the same spot as he was last season is a fall, then we have a LOT of fallers on our roster right now. Especially considering all the competition we DO have at the WR position. If anything, that Roosevelt’s strong camp hasn’t given HIM more looks at Nelson’s position… shouldn’t that be considered a fall for Roosevelt? We all know Nelson makes the roster but the verdict is still out on Namaan, despite his contributions last season. That would be a bigger fall.
So many people on here overreact.....
Rising or falling has to do with the expectation from the beginning of camp! D Nelson was looked at as the biggest “up and comer” rookie WR coming into this year, and he is not moving into L Evans spot…..therefore, he stayed neutral, or was down a little…….We all thought Levitre was a LOCK at Guard…and apparently so did he, so he didn’t show to camp in his best shape, and they are lighting a fire under his arse……..and on and on. RELAX everyone, my goodness….
Pysched about our D
for the first time since we got bledsoe, i am actually excited about a bills team. I think we may have a very good defense this year. When you cause as much disruption as kyle williams and marcell are going to cause, good things happen. Our DB’s int total will rise. I also think the carrignton will supplant kelsay and essentially we will line up 3 atheletic 300+ pounders to stop the run and sirupt the passer. If merriman is healthy i can see the potential of a great defense. I also like batten and moats if needed behind merriman. I know august is a month for hope in the nfl, but i feel strongly about our defense.
Worried to death about the Offense, but teams are good with adequate offense and strong defense. Please make note this is my first positve feeling pre-season since bledsoe came over and only my second one in eight years. I have the same feeling i did in 1980 after a decade of defeat to shulas dolphins. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
An expression of my positive feelings
Agreed
Worried to death about the Offense, but teams are good with adequate offense and strong defense.
We have some questions to resolve about the offense . . .
- whether Chan will use a TE, and who will it be
- whether CJ will be the guy we think he can be
- whether the O-line will be solidified
- who will be the #2 WR
- if Fitz is really the guy {the biggie}
While those questions are being resolved, we’ll need the defense to at least keep us in games {and, on occasion, win them for us}; this year’s D, looks capable of doing so, unlike last years.
As the saying goes: “offense scores the points — defense wins the game” . . .
.
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
Chandler
I’m biased, but quietly hoping Chandler is a pleasant surprise.
Dallas Clark he’s not – but he’s plenty capable in the passing game if he can seize the opportunity.
And he’s a load to bring down after the catch.
Maybe not a big “riser,” as yes, the Bills have reeked at TE for years, but I’d argue that
given Gailey’s seeming minor role for TE’s in his offense and Chandler’s moderate ability in both the running and passing game – as to not tip your hand vis a vis run or pass depending on which TE is on the field – I’m hoping he can produce and be a pleasant 30-40 grab, handful of TD’s role player.

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