Broncos 24, Bills 10: Demetrius Bell Struggles Against Denver Rush
by Brian Galliford on Aug 21, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Re-Watch
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Out of everything that went wrong for the Buffalo Bills in their 24-10 pre-season loss to the Denver Broncos on Saturday night, nothing was more disconcerting than the unacceptable play of starting left tackle Demetrius Bell.
In 31 offensive snaps last night - a much higher total than Chan Gailey planned to get in - Bell routinely struggled, particularly with speed off the edge, which rarely gave him problems in 2010. He gave up a sack to rookie Von Miller (pictured) on a pure speed rush, and Elvis Dumervil had his number all evening. We counted four snaps in which Dumervil beat Bell with ease; two of those plays led to Ryan Fitzpatrick throw-aways, Bell held on one that went uncalled, and Dumervil blew up a handoff to C.J. Spiller on another.
His problems didn't stop there, either. At least twice, Bell hit the ground trying to run block after tripping. He gave up a pressure to Robert Ayers that, along with a Marcus Easley drop, led to an interception. Twice, defenders had beaten Bell with inside moves - something he did struggle with last year - and would've registered hits had Fitzpatrick not already thrown the ball.
Buffalo is in enough trouble up front personnel-wise to have Bell struggle in this capacity. He's the unchallenged starting left tackle. If he doesn't improve vastly, it may not matter who else the Bills play up front.
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Wonderful news
And let’s keep giving Nix and Gailey a pass on this site, or better yet, votes of approval. It’s inexcusable that this team is entering the season with the OL personnel on its roster.
Our Wang don’t Hang; it’s a Calloway Wood cause we got Levitre.
And let’s keep giving Nix and Gailey a pass on this site, or better yet, votes of approval.
I really don’t like this attitude – it’s tough to build an NFL team. Clearly Nix isn’t addressing the team like a lot here would like but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Do we have a SB caliber roster? No – let them develop the team as they see fit – they are addressing areas just not o-line – anyone can see that – but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong – it means it isn’t happening right now.
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Do we have a SB caliber roster? No
Do we have the worst offensive tackle situation in football? Yes.
Thats my problem right now with Buddy, my friend. Waiting to address the offensive line is understandable but not doing a thing to at least alleviate a blatant problem in the meantime is inexcusable.
I think it says something entirely contradictory to their statements that they believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick because if they did, they wouldnt hang him out to dry like this. If I were the Amish Rifle I wouldnt be happy with the front office and I’d get the message. Not cool.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Do we have the worst offensive tackle situation in football? Yes
Hyperbole? I can come up with half a dozen teams I wouldnt really want to trade tackles with. Including Chicago, Piitsburgh, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Oakland, Cincinnati, Arizona, to name a few. I’m not saying this is a good thing, but when I look at other teams, this isn’t a unique problem. Sometimes I get the feeling there is a sense that we are the only team that doesn’t find a way to upgrade their tackles each season.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
rec'd
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
also
we tried to upgrade with Clabo, but didn’t happen. I believe their main concern this year was correcting the defense to put our offense in better field positions. We are just treading water right now till we see if any good tackles are released in numbers games from other teams….there aren’t exactly many other options out there right now…
by Bestbillieve86 on Aug 21, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
as Yoda once said
“No! Try not! Do or do not! There is no try!”
Trying doesnt help Fitzpatrick, who is being hung out to dry. They are abusing his great mind and quick decision making by banking on it, instead of pass protection
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
might be better....
if we try Jedi mind tricks….
:-)
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
“you do not want to rush this passer….”
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
Ha!!!!!
good play fine sir!!!
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
i understand
trying doesn’t help, but at least they are aware of the problem and want to improve it….you don’t just sign players to make moves….ie cornell green. he should have never been signed ,but they did it because they needed a tackle…i would much rather watch our team give time to young guys who are struggling but stand a chance at getting better as opposed to signing someone older just to sign someone. at any rate, i agree they looked atrocious. We still have two weeks left to hopefully slap some sense into bell and get his butt in gear
by Bestbillieve86 on Aug 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
you are right
it is always better to roll with struggling youngsters than some aging vet.
Which is mostly why Im not sold on signing McKinnie. If you are out of football shape, you’re out of football shape. And at his age, you cant just snap back into it like a guy in his 20s
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
exactly
so, I know it is painful to watch, but we really don’t have much of a choice….would I love to see them finally get a stud lt? yes, but at the same time, I haven’t completely sold out on bell either. He looked fine against Chi town’s pass rush last week and terrible against Denver’s speed rush. Hope he takes lessons from this and puts it together for KC
by Bestbillieve86 on Aug 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Im just hoping
we draft a guy in the first round next year!
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
Second Round
First round needs to be franchise QB next year!
and promptly
get him killed or worse, make him so paranoid about taking a hit that he loses his ability to hang in the pocket and throw (see Edwards, Trent)
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Aug 21, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
so if fitzy struggles this year, would you rather they draft a tackle or a qb?
by Bestbillieve86 on Aug 21, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
if we're not in position to get a top tier QB
Im going tackle. I dont like drafting a future franchise QB until we have a future franchise pass protector.
But good question !
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
thinkin the odds are pretty good that we’ll be in position to draft a QBOTF next year
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
Yeah
Considering our O/L I’m thinking #1 overall.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Terrible Examples
Chicago just drafted Gabe Carimi in an effort to address their tackle problems.
Jacksonville has Eugene Monroe, 8th overall draft pick in 2009, at their LT.
Cincinatti has Andre Smith, 6th overall in 2009, at their RT.
Arizona has Levi Brown, 5th overall in 2007, at their LT.
Point is that most of these teams have made serious, large investment moves to address their lack of depth at tackle in the recent past.
by Munchausen on Aug 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whoa c'mon man
We made an undrafted FA out LT, that’s quite the investment
Kenny Powers is back!
by atlantalove on Aug 21, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
also made a UDFA LT into a 4 time pro-bowler. Would you rather have 1st round (4th overall) pick Mike Williams or UDFA Jason Peters? No guarantees.
"the true is we havent had SQUAT, SQUISHY,SAQUASUM SAQGUANDO, DIDLY DORI BING TURY CRAP" - abayarde
we dont' have either do we
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
Nope
But we got heart, and were brimming with potential; potenial for #1 overall. I hope Chan can turn water into wine because I’m gonna need a drink or two this yr.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha, all you are pointing out is that drafting a guy is no guarantee. Besides Carimi (who is a RT and not starting yet, but its early to tell), the guys you listed have been massive disappointments. So I think the example is solid. Draft position doesn’t equal wins, we as Bills fans should really know that.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A fair enough point. But it’s equally fair to point out that these teams recognize and respond to their lack of talent at tackle. We ignore it year after year.
I’d rather ignore it than draft busts. Reaching for guys who can’t fill a hole mean we lose out somewhere else. So ‘effort’ counts zero for me. How many of those teams regret their draft picks on tackles? That’s a perfect argument for not doing it.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
that worked so well
with spiller and bulaga.
bulaga got better as last season progressed and tiny dancer spiller got worse and fumbly.
spiller is not looking good.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Aug 21, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
All this means
I’d rather ignore it than draft busts.
is the Bills don’t know how to evaluate talent.
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
Isn’t Andre Smith that fat pile of poo that can’t stay healthy?
I would not cite him as an example.
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Aug 21, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
just because Smith didn't work out doesn't mean that the lowly Bungals
were wrong in trying to upgrade their Oline.
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
well said, rec'd....THIS SHOULD BE GREEN
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
I dont agree
so I’ll answer your question of “Hyperbole?” with “No, its not”.
Im sorry my friend but look around and I would trade tackles with Pittsburgh (we tried to upgrade with Willie Colon!), with Minnesota, and with Jacksonville. The definition of “hyperbole” is an extravagant exaggeration. Because you can find a few teams you can count on your hand that might, arguably, maybe if we got deep into an analysis have a worse situation than ours, in your opinion, does not make my opinion hyperbolic. Even if you think there are a few teams that our worse, at best our offensive tackle situation is one of the worst in the NFL. Not hyperbolic at all.
Its ok to accept that our tackle situation is a mess.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
From worst to somewhere in the mid 20’s I think is hypoerbolic. Beinging linked to Colon does not mean we should take on the Pittsburgh o-line.
I’m not saying we are great at tackle, but I stand by my claim its hyperbole to call them the worst outright.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
mid 20s?
there are 32 teams, you named 7 teams, many of which are very arguable to be worse than ours. Many NFL media sources seem to think our o-line is much worse than you do:
Rotoworld: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/38453/179/2011-offensive-line-rankings?pg=3
ESPN ranks us 2nd worse team in its pre-season power rankings and the only blurb is about how bad our o-line is, leading one to think its what landed us there: http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings
Im not saying because these sources say something its true, but it really is bold to say its hyperbolic that our tackle situation is the worst in football. Not the o-line, just our tackles. It really isnt hyperbolic at all
But then again, now we are just discussing semantics :)
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh no, ESPN power rankings just reared their head.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t think John Clayton’s blurb is better researched than anything we are going to say.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont understand these curt responses, grey
My point was that the mid 20s out of 32 is very close to bottom of the barrel.
But thank you, I can subtract.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
I just was saying thats how I got to mid-20s.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree we are in the bottom Poz, I just look around and don’t like a lot of o-lines, before we get hyperbolic. If that’s not hyperbole to you fine. But its easy as Bills fans to think the grass is always greener. Thats it.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
but I dont think the grass is always greener
you know that. Im unusually optimistic about this team every season.
I just dont see much movement at OT specifically and havent since the Mike Williams drafting. At some point, when your lawn has been yellow for ten years the grass truly is greener at your neighbors. Thats all Im trying to say
And always good talking Bills with you, my friend, even if we dont agree much these days :)
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree that many Bills fans think the grass is always greener...
but Poz is def not one of them. Poz is one of the most patient and understanding poster on this board and for him to give such strong opinions on the weak level of play of the Bills o-line speaks volumes to me, since you can tell criticism of his favorite team does not come easily or without merit.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 21, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you sir!
and no criticism of the Bills does not come easy to me. I’ll defend Bell like I’m VanScott if an opposing fan tries to rip on him :)
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I could defend Bell today…. but I still prefer him to Webb or Legursky… or even yes Levi Brown. I gotta keep him off the bottom!
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
franchise commentor!!
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Franchise QB
Pittsburgh has Roethlisberger a real franchise QB that can still function despite a less than stellar offensive line.
Just remember how bad this offensive line looked under Trent Edwards and then all of a sudden how much better they were with Fitz the following week. Hmm.
Get a frachise type QB and it will not be as much of a problem.
by Vekster18 on Aug 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you might be right
unfortunately, i think finding a franchise QB is the most difficult thing in sports
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
which is why we should mortgage a few picks next year and trade up to grab Luck from Carolina
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
fantasy or nightmare
fast forward to next year. We get Luck. Fantasy realized. But, the OL is the same.
I cannot imagine Luck being so good day one that he can overcome this line play.
The nightmare is two fold. One, he looks at the Bills and pulls an Elway/Manning. Two, he plays, gets hammered, shell shocked and becomes a Losman, Edwards, etc.
I understand your position. It’s well thought out and based on sound logic. I just wish they had done “some” stop-gap upgrading. Fitz is an average QB. This line will make him be well below average IMO. Someone (anyone almost) at this point could have helped. I know we disagree and I don’t want to waste time beating this to death. I just think throwing the offense a bone would have made it liveable for another year.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
by fansince60 on Aug 21, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know we disagree and I don’t want to waste time beating this to death
we don’t disagree at all – I would like nothing more than to see our o-line drastically better – i’m just not sure how high of a priority in reality it should be given. Also, these guys haven’t been running this team for a long time.
I think if I were a Steelers fan i’d be peeved about their building operation as far as o-line because they’ve had stability in the organization for a long time but have failed to do much of anything there
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Worst
But we should have something to show across O/L in a re-build thats 11 yrs strong! We’ve got Wood and now levitre is considered underweight and winded when last yr he was considered at least solid. I ask whats going on with our O/L evaluators? Our interior line was considered at best avg, now Levitre is underweight and winded, Woods moved to center and Hang is 2nd string, seems to be working out real well. For a team that can’t get settled across entire O/L bar Wood.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I could add more, SF, Indy, Seattle if Okung can’t stay on the field, and Detroit. Am I saying its clear we are better than these lines? No, but to me its a a stretch to declare we are worse than all of them.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
im not talking about the whole line....
I said “tackles”
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
Well
You’d be fine to include whole line barring Wood.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Def not hyperbole. If not a true statement, a very arguable stance.
This NFL writer agrees with you too:
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/8/12/2359714/evan-silva-ranks-the-nfls-offensive-lines
So not like there isn’t some school of thought that agrees…
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You can also find one that puts us just under middle of the pack.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
I say use your eyes and judge for yourself on a game to game basis. Bell looked decent last week and awful this week. We will have to wait and see which is more of the norm.
Lets see
Our Starting LT is actually regressing, which is hard to believe, considering he was weak to begin with. The coaches blow up the interior which was suppose to be a strength. Levitre went from solid to under weight and winded. We bench Hang and switch Wood to center. Yeah I’d say we’ve got dibs on worst O/L in NFL bar none! Let’s go dumpster diving again ,shall we? Upgrade something, doesn’t have to be O/L, get a real fast QB, oh wait we did, guy from Jets will probably be starter after Fitz gets pounded into our new turf.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i prefer
Monroe and Britton any day than our starters.
by Fernando brazil on Aug 21, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Fix most inportant areas first
Buddy took a look at this team after last season and the most critical problem we had was on defense as we were being gashed consistently by teams running down our throats. The Jets alone could count on 200 yard rushing games against the players we were suiting up, so he focused on attempting to fix that by drafting Marcel Dareus and Kelvin Sheppard. Additions of Aaron Williams, DeNoris Searcy, Nick Barnett were made to further build up a solid defense.
He knew he could not fix everything in one off-season so he focused on the area that was performing the worst; the defense and most specifically the run defense.
Hopefully, last night was a bit of an abberation for the line. We all know it is not great and needs to be addressed, but that same unit performed much better over the course of last season so it made sense to think you could get by with it for another year as we continue to rebuild.
If they can get a franchise QB and cornerstone LT in next years draft they will then be on the right track.
by Vekster18 on Aug 21, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick because if they did, they wouldnt hang him out to dry like this
wouldn’t that show that they have great confidence in his ability to make adjustments? make quick reads? move in the pocket to avoid the rush?
I feel that not addressing the line quickly shows they have more confidence in that regard in Fitz – not less.
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
interesting way to look at it
you are right, could be either now that I think about it!
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
or it could mean
that they don’t see Fitz as the future at QB and don’t care if he gets the crap kicked out of him.
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
by Joe P. on Aug 21, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha both are extremes on opposite ends of the spectrum
and yet I believe that both could possibly be correct. I’m just not sure which one I believe more
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
I agree
his only rational I can think of is #1) he’d really high on Pears #2) he has a last minute vet or 2 on the radar #3) hoping someone, anyone, steps up?
"Alright Men, lets go out there, bust um in the chops & get somebody bloody. If your not a superstar you best be sweating that ass off. Take the W in battle & make the Bills Nation Proud."
by Blood, sweat & Win on Aug 21, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It's all about the beard
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
right on the money
you hit it right, it frustrates me that year after year there are big time problems somewhere on the o-line and nothing gets done about it, it makes me want to scream, and alot of the time watching them play i do.
You sound like an ostrich or something. For several consecutive years (even predating Chix), we have had obvious major problems on our O-line. The front office has done nothing of substance to address them. How is that excusable?
This rhetoric that “Oh, it takes time,” and “It’s tough to build an NFL team” — what happened to “Show me the baby”? If you run a business and it has a major problem, you fix it. You don’t wait for years and see if it randomly fixes itself.
On our current Oline, the tackle position is probably the worst in the NFL. There’s no sense in letting these guys develop — you can’t develop talent that doesn’t exist. We need different players at tackle. It’s so bad that we risk injuries to our QB and RB due to atrocious blocking.
I’m all for positivity and supporting the Bills. But not to the point where we blindfold ourselves, stick our fingers in our ears, and say “LALALALALALALA!!!!” when obvious mistakes are made.
by Munchausen on Aug 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You sound like an ostrich or something.
I actually feel like i’ve been the opposite of that – i’ve written Fanposts and lots of comments that show why things are they way they are. I feel that the Nix is terrible because our o-line is terrible sounds more like an ostrich than I do because that’s all I read. They suck, give me the bottom line, show me the baby – i’ve never even seen on this site once why it’s good to build an offensive line first or here’s what the statistics say or here’s how this or that perennial playoff team keeps winning because they have a great offensive line yet neglected the rest of their roster because they were fixing that first and foremost. All I read is bitching.
I have yet to hear any compelling reasons why we should fix the o-line first – especially when evidence points to the contrary. Perennial playoff teams worst units are more of then than not the offensive lines.
Look at PFF’s 2010 offensive line rankings from 10: Chiefs, Cowboys, Dolphins, Panthers, Falcons, Bengals, Ravens, Patriots, Texans and Jets. Only 5 of those teams made the playoffs with Pittsburgh and Chicago both making the championship games with the 32nd and 31st ranked offensive lines – GB won the SB with a middle of the road defense and a turnstyle at RT that gave up 13 sacks last year.
There seems to be no correlation to a great offensive line and winning the SB. Teams like the Jets are few and far between and they also have great coaching and a phenomenal defense. The Pats have a good offensive line but also the best coach in the NFL and maybe the best QB in the NFL last year.
Show me a good reason why building an offensive line first is the best philosophy and i’ll listen – show me how building an offensive line results in winning the SB more often than not and i’ll listen – show me how rebuilding teams that win consistently start with their offensive lines and i’ll listen.
I’ve read nothing to that extent on this site once yet have provided plenty of reasoning for why this rebuild has gone the way it has. So why am I the ostrich?
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Well said, sir. Had Nix drafted the best available offensive tackle in the first round this year, the “focus of impending doom” would simply be the d-line, instead.
by LeClaire Bill on Aug 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So
As long as Ralph hires and fires new regimes on a consistent basis we’ll always be in re-build mode and thats OK? Ralph is smart because we can’t blame current regime with past regimes failures so just keep changing out FO’s and fans will be understanding, good to know.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
also – if you look at NFL’s top rush defenses from last year the top 3 are Pittsburgh, Chicago and the Jets – all 3 of them made the conference championships.
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for finding an o-line ranking where we are not the worst (mid 20’s YEAH!)
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Really good post, J2. Rec'd.
While I don’t agree with everything here, in my opinion it is recommended reading.
I agree that winning teams don’t always have the best offensive lines. But, they also can’t have lines that allow defenses to blow plays up before they are even started (like the Spiller handoff and many passing plays). To have an offensive line that dictates what plays can and cannot work is not good either. I really feel that is where the Bills are at right now…that the “skill” players and “trick plays” have to compensate for the fact that our offensive line does not allow us to operate plays that other teams can.
So while it may not be a prerequisite for a good team to have a great o-line, I’m assuming that a good/great team cannot have a terrible o-line, unless literally every other thing on that team makes up for it. (like even though Pittsburgh’s line is pretty bad, Roethlisberger is built to take hits and scramble, and thier defense is always incredible. Same with the Colts. Even though they have a poor line, they also have one of the greatest QBs ever and some really good pass rushers in Freeney and Mathis. And yet, they still have not won as much as they should, maybe due to their line holding them back?)
Bottom line: If a team is going to neglect the o-line like the Bills seemingly have done the past few years, then to be good or great, they either need a Hall of Fame QB like the Colts, a once-in-a-generation defense like Pittsburgh, or to be in a terrible, terrible division like Chicago.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 21, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If a team is going to neglect the o-line like the Bills seemingly have done the past few years, then to be good or great, they either need a Hall of Fame QB like the Colts, a once-in-a-generation defense like Pittsburgh, or to be in a terrible, terrible division like Chicago.
but I think that’s a lot of the point – on offense unless you have a good QB what any good is the rest of the offense? There is more of a correlation to a great QB and good defense than there is to an offensive line.
I’ll listen to why the Bills haven’t drafted a QB
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda agree. If you don't have the QB, then at least build the line.
like the Jets have. But to not have either? That’s a problem.
Oh, I’m def willing to listen as well as to why the Bills haven’t added a QB to their roster the past few years besides Levi Brown and Brad Smith…
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 21, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean, the division the Super Bowl champs came from? And those Vikings that beat us by like 40? And a bunch of peoples dark horse the Lions?
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Aug 21, 2011 11:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"Build First" isn't the issue
It’s “pay attention”. I’m not saying the Bills should go an spend a 1st on a tackle and pat themselves on the back (though if it’s Kalil from USC, I’d be fine with that). I’m saying that they have personnel issues on the Oline that they choose to ignore. We have an atrocious lack of talent that can be improved by the right investments. I was happy that we made a move for Clabo — that would have been a huge step forward. But beyond Clabo, there are many potential FA acquisitions that could improve our Oline. We’re terrible at tackle, and in need of drastic improvement. The “ostrich” comment was just meant to point out that ignoring the problem won’t solve it any more than reprimanding those who acknowledge the problem will.
Your SB champions argument can easily be turned around. Pittsburgh only looks statistically like they have a bad Oline. They have a QB who holds the ball 10 seconds longer than anyone else in the league, so he gets “pressured” a lot. When they try to run the ball, they can win games doing it (see: AFC championship 2010). Many recent SB winners or contenders — Indy, New Orleans, New England, Minnesota (w/Favre), Arizona, etc — feature elite QB’s who just need average protection from their lines to excel (but who will crumble under pressure). Our line could not provide even that minimal level of protection.
I’m not arguing that we should sell the house to build the Oline. But if we can’t provide some minimum of protection against aggressive defenses, we’d still suck with Peyton Manning at QB.
I disagree with much of this – you still haven’t shown me how building an offensive line first is a requirement for winning super bowls. You merely point out that great QBs win SBs – which is obvious – but those teams haven’t focused on offensive lines at all.
Great QB play and great defense wins championships – the rest is secondary. Complain about Fitz, or the lack of LBs or the lack of an elite SS and i’ll listen. Complain about a group in which a lot of the NFL doesn’t have an all-star cast and it doesn’t hold water with me.
As i’ve said before – there seems to be almost no correlation to winning SBs by having a great offensive line. Great QB play and great defense are far and away more consistent in winning SBs
by J2 on Aug 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't seen a snow job like this since the Bilzzard of '77
because they have a great offensive line yet neglected the rest of their roster
Nobody is suggesting this. What we are suggesting is the Oline has been neglected. Big difference
Perennial playoff teams worst units are more of then than not the offensive lines.
So you take one year and say this? I don’t buy it for a second.
Only 5 of those teams made the playoffs
So you are saying if we fix the Oline we have a 50% chance of making the playoffs? OK….I’m in…let’s do it. How much more does the odds go up if we throw in a franchise QB?? Because we don’t have one of those either.
GB won the SB with a middle of the road defense and a turnstyle at RT that gave up 13 sacks last year.
This statement disappoints me the most because we have had this conversation. Bulaga was a rookie that started the season hurt and got better as the season went on. How did he do in the SB? I don’t know why you refuse to give Bulaga credit for what he did last season.
There seems to be no correlation to a great offensive line and winning the SB.
Why would there be? If it was that simple, Olineman would be taken every pick of the first round. How about you ask Kelly how important the Oline is to the offense….I wonder what Manning or Brady would say?
Show me a good reason why building an offensive line first is the best philosophy and i’ll listen
Because without a good Oline your QB and RB can’t be effective, which was pretty much dooms your team’s offense to failure.
show me how rebuilding teams that win consistently start with their offensive lines and i’ll listen.
With their first pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Patriots have selected Colorado OT Nate Solder…..Colts take Anthony Castonzo….Philly takes G Danny Watkins….Green Bay takes OT Derek Sherrod. Do these teams count?
So why am I the ostrich?
Because the eggman and the walrus were already taken :-)
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
by Joe P. on Aug 21, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Nobody is suggesting this. What we are suggesting is the Oline has been neglected. Big difference
not what I was getting at – if we had drafted offensive line in the 2nd and 3rd rounds last year and with the 3rd pick this year – basically what we did with the defensive line – then Nix would be blasted for not fixing the rush defense and neglecting the defense.
So you take one year and say this? I don’t buy it for a second.
why would you think that? because I didn’t cite other years because I didn’t feel like taking 2 hours out of my day to find specific references even though i’ve read and seen them in the past? Sorry for the lack of thoroughness
So you are saying if we fix the Oline we have a 50% chance of making the playoffs?
Not what I was saying at all – if you look at past years you’ll see there is a more direct correlation to winning with a strong defense than there is with strong offensive lines. If you want to look at last year specifically then you can see that the top 3 rush defenses went to the conference championships.
Why would there be?
exactly my point – there wouldn’t – yet you see time and time again that teams with strong defenses typically win more games. QB trumps that argument – which is why I’ll listen to the QB debate – not the fix o-line before d-line debate.
Because without a good Oline your QB and RB can’t be effective,
Maybe RB but certainly not QB – you know that Joe
With their first pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Patriots have selected Colorado OT Nate Solder…..Colts take Anthony Castonzo….Philly takes G Danny Watkins….Green Bay takes OT Derek Sherrod. Do these teams count?
absolutely – those teams have won without those players – those teams have won SBs without offensive lines and now they are adding those players after years of neglecting the position and still winning SBs. They are doing it to make their teams better after they won the SB. Isn’t it interesting that those teams (obviously save Philly) all have SB wins yet still need to address their offensive lines?
I can speak for everyone, but
I didn’t blast Chix for grabbing Dareus….Spiller is a different story. If you really want to go down the list we can, but I don’t think we will get anywhere.
I didn’t feel like taking 2 hours out of my day to find specific references
The point is that I can site teams that did have good Olines and won a SB. Sure, you don’t have to have All Pros at every postion on the line, but that isn’t what we are talking about. How many times don’t have at least one OT that was taken lower than round 2? I’m guess not very many….like you said, I’m not in the mood to do the research
you’ll see there is a more direct correlation to winning with a strong defense than there is with strong offensive lines.
And an even stronger correlation to QB play.
Maybe RB but certainly not QB – you know that Joe
Well….maybe can’t is too strong a word, but it does make it very difficult to be successful if you QB is running for his life.
those teams have won SBs without offensive lines a
So you are saying all those teams won SBs with an Oline as bad as the Bills is? The year the Coits won the SB LT Tarik Glenn made the Pro Bowl…..the Pats had Matt Light. Philly signed Peters. Do you really think Bellicheat fell out of bed on draft day and suddenly realized the Oline was important? Come on man!!!!
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
I didn’t blast Chix for grabbing Dareus
and I could easily blast them for that pick – I like Dareus – but if Gabbert, Ponder, Locker were guys they think could be in the Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Manning group then Buddy failed us miserably there.
The point is that I can site teams that did have good Olines and won a SB
Maybe the Giants but you’d have to go back go Brady and the Pats – the Saints played with a bunch of 4th and 5th rounders when they won. Save for maybe the Giants and Pats lines the Steelers, Colts, Packers, Bucs and Ravens all had either amazing QB play or good to great defensive play. We all know how the Giants beat the Pats and the Pats seem to be an exception becuase they do have a good line and Tom Brady + a great defense and the best coach of all time not named Lombardi – obviously they are going to win.
but it does make it very difficult to be successful if you QB is running for his life.
that’s kind of my point – I watch these QBs do it all the time – I’m not making an argument just to argue – i’m doing it because I see it time and time again. Plus, if I were building a team i’d focus on QB and defense – let the rest fall as they may.
So you are saying all those teams won SBs with an Oline as bad as the Bills is?
absolutely – I think the Packers and Steelers have worse lines than we do. Sure they played like amazing crap on Saturday but I hardly expect that to be the norm because we’ve seen them play better than that and I see upgrades in Wood and Pears over the guys that were there last year. To me i’m really only worried about Urbik and Bell – the other 3 are servicable at this point – further evaluations needed.
I would have done it differently, but if CHIX get us a QB this draft I will be OK with Dareus
Spiller is a different story.
Maybe the Giants but…
Colts Oline was pretty good as well. I think you are picking your spots here. Why does the Oline not get credit if the team didn’t win the SB? How many teams have lost a SB with very good Olines but had their Defense let them down?
if I were building a team i’d focus on QB …
Agreed, but you have got to keep that QB from getting killed. What good would Rodgers be to the Pats on IR?
I think the Packers and Steelers have worse lines than we do.
I don’t….I would swap lines with them anyday and twice on Sunday. I think Wood is good….maybe Levitre, but it is hard to tell because everyone around them shouldn’t be starters in the NFL.
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
derp...Rodgers to Packers and Brady to Pats...not what happened there
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
I think you are picking your spots here.
come on – really? why would I do that? to make Chix look good? I have no investment in them and i’m calling things as I seem them. This is an NFL trend – not a Bills specific issue – anyone can see that.
Colts Oline was pretty good as well.
the Colts line was one of their weaknesses – don’t you remember all the talk about how Manning had to overcome their non existent run game by passing to setup the run? Draws and Screens in order to over come their deficiencies.
What good would Rodgers be to the Pats on IR?
No good at all – that would be terrible. Regardless you can do things with the offensive line that you can’t do with a defensive line. You can slide protections, have chips, use draws, screens, short passing game, counters – there’s tons of ways to mask an offensive lines deficiencies that teams in all games.
I don’t….I would swap lines with them anyday and twice on Sunday.
I don’t know how much stock you put in PFF but the Steelers and Packers had the 32nd and 31st ranked offensive lines last year. you remember when Scott was playing T for us? Everyone was ripping the Bills for that becuse he sucked. Obviously we don’t know about this year because the games aren’t real yet but the Bills at least ranked in the 20’s while those 2 lines were atrocious.
by J2 on Aug 22, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Colts Oline was pretty good as well. I think you are picking your spots here. Why does the Oline not get credit if the team didn’t win the SB? How many teams have lost a SB with very good Olines but had their Defense let them down?
Giants beating the Bills in SB XXV, defense just couldn’t come up with big stops…
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
best comment ever
that only shows that great QBs could play behind poor lines, but great lines cant make the average QB a great one.
by Fernando brazil on Aug 21, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a great comment J2.
Building a good defense first is the best philosophy. A great defense can make up for a lousy offense MUCH better than a great offense can make up for a lousy defense. This is what Buddy Nix tried to do this off season – fix the defense.
Only problem is, after this game, it doesn’t really look like the defense has been fixed. Again, it’s a preseason game and people shouldn’t read too much into it. But it’s cause for concern.
by The Adam Bomb on Aug 22, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
it doesn’t really look like the defense has been fixed
That’s because we need at least 2 LBs and probably 3
by J2 on Aug 22, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Understand the sentiment, but disagree with part of it
For several consecutive years (even predating Chix), we have had obvious major problems on our O-line. The front office has done nothing of substance to address them. How is that excusable?
What does anything that was done before Nix and Gailey arrived have to do with them? This is going into their second season.
Exactly
As long as FO and owner continue to make GM and HC a revolving door we can’t blame current regime for past regime. Its worked for 11 yrs and counting! Ralph is a genius.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur to a point.
I’m a draftnik. I remember the howls when they used a 2nd on Jairus Byrd (pre-Nix) and that was after they’d used a #1 on Wood, and before they traded up for Levitre.
I remember the howls when they took Aaron Williams with a 2nd this year. I howled. I wanted a pass rusher -Ayers, Reed or Sheard.
BUT, DB is a “numbers” position. You have 9-10 active on Sunday. You’re always going to take a DB, and every couple of years, you have to take one high, because CB is a “premium position” and you have to keep pumping talent into the pipeline.
I see OL the same way. You’re going to carry 9, and dress 7-8 on Sunday. OT is also a premium position, so again, you’re always going to take one (like Wang in ‘09 and Hairston in ’10); and every couple of years, you’re going to have to take one high. THAT’s what hasn’t happened since they shot and missed on Mike Williams.
BTW, LB and WR are also "numbers positions, but not premium, cornerstone positions like QB, LT, RDE/ROLB, shutdown corner… You can get quality in the middle rounds.
You HAVE to INVEST in the premium positions, doubly so when they’re also positions where you need a lot of bodies to get through a season.
I’m not saying Dareus wasn’t the best player available, or that the run defense didn’t need fixing, or that the team should be all the way turned around. But this regime, like the previous regimes that’ve passed through the revolving door haven’t invested more than a 4th rounder in OT.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 21, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m already reading everything there is on Luck, Landry Jones, Barkely, OTs Martin (Stanford) Kalil (USC), and Reiff (Iowa), and DE/OLBs Courtney Upshaw, Devin Taylor and Donte Paige-Moss.
:~(
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 21, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
marcus easley looked scared out there. donald jones is not a #2 wr in nfl and left takle bell should try guard MOST OF ALL CHRIS KELSAY MUST BE CUT 25 MILLION FOR WAT SOON AS 56 GO’S OUT U SEE THE REAL PROBLEM AND ITS HIM TAKE THAT MONEY U PAY HIM AND USE IT ON THAT O LINE WERE NO MONEY IS BEING SPENT
Kelsay is so far from the real problem...
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
All caps locks writting SMH.
Kenny Powers is back!
by atlantalove on Aug 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He has a half-dozen posts like that in the last hour.
I just ignore his entries.
Year two is upon us.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Aug 21, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he trying to be Abayarde?
Kenny Powers is back!
by atlantalove on Aug 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If he comes up with something similar to ""WHAGON BLASTER" then he has a shot.
Year two is upon us.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Aug 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I never thought much of Bell at LT last year, so this doesn’t surprise me.
I don’t want to be knee-jerk negative, but realistically we’ve got a bunch of below-average QBs, a below-average OL, and a set of below-average (or at best totally unproven)WRs. Put ‘em together and things are below-below-below average. Bring on the gimmicks and trick plays, because we’ll need a few of them.
by Applsoss on Aug 21, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
hm
this is a very sobering comment. I dont necessarily agree, I love Ryan Fitzpatrick and I love the young receivers but your take may not be that far from accurate if you look at our team through non-Bills fan glasses.
My notes on this game will not be very flattering and maybe its because your comment is right. I hope you are wrong but I find your comment very even-keeled and rational, not knee jerk negative at all App.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
poz
i understand the love for fitz, but i think his best season in stats departament was behind him and that was last year.Just like Kerry Collins could not repeat his 2008 numbers for the Titans, i think Fitz can’t too. He’s done more than he’s capable of. Just that in my opinion, but i respect the love for Fitz and i aprecciate the guy too, just don’t see him like the answer. I really think VY could bring wins and could play well behind this awful O-Line, because he has the ability to elude pass rushers, and has the potential to be the anwer for us too, but respect all doubts about his mental toughness, not agreeing but respecting.
The young guys are surprises last year, but if one of then could develop into a starting receiver we need to be very happy, because all of then are undrafted free agents and is really difficult to find a Stevie like player year after year.
Hopefully we will draft our franchise QB next year, i will love if we bring VY next year, improved after watch Vick and work with Reid and they Offensive coordinator, but that is just me, if not, a first round QB will be good.
by Fernando brazil on Aug 21, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
not agree
Jackson is a very good all around RB, above average, and Spiller could be really good, maybe a star, but we are very negativist after all disapoitment with first round picks, a litlle more patience please.
by Fernando brazil on Aug 21, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
For what it’s worth, Nix has made it abundantly clear that his top priority is fixing the defense. This may be because Gailey can get good play out of mediocre players, but I can’t know for sure. Nix has pretty much ignored those positions during the draft the last two years, with a few exceptions obviously. Now that the defense has been addressed for a draft and a half, hopefully he will turn his attention toward offense next year.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
IT'S THE PRE SEASON FOLKS!!!!
It was obvious Fox wanted to win last night after being embarrassed last week. There’s no game planning involved and everything is still basic. I just love how many fair-weather fans there are….
Like Nick Barnett said last night, “I wouldn’t throw away your season tickets…”
Give me the Buffalo Bills or give me death.....
by B-LO4LIFE on Aug 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
There was only one team playing like it was preseason. Broncos are a bit more of a veteran team and don’t need as much preseason work as the Bills and it showed.
Harooo
by Robot Nixon on Aug 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Pardon moi?
I thought the BILLS were the team that at least had a returning coaching staff. The Broncos have a new HC/OC/DC and changed defenses from the 34 to the 43 without benefit of OTAs, lockout, shortened offseason, no conditioning program, etc. They blocked, tackled and hit better than the Bills did. Period. They (IMO) had excuses, but didn’t need them.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 21, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Demetrius Bell Struggles Against Denver Rush
could have said
[Insert any Bills O-Lineman] Struggles Against Denver Rush
and it would be valid.
Not defending Bell, just stating each O-Line player did poorly in the pass protection phase of their jobs. At least that seemed to be what I observed.
Year two is upon us.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Aug 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions
aaaaaaarrrrggghh pleeeaaaase spare me the “they have a plan, lets see it unfold” and the classic gem “we’re happy with the guys weve got”. we went thru this crap year after year with jauron already. theres no excuse for not upgrading when you have the chance, flozell is still out there, so is mckinnie and starks and a whole bunch of other guys who would be infinitely better than the OL men we have. if they dont upgrade this line before week 1 i can only assume theyre looking for the first pick in the draft. none of the tackles they currently have are worth waiting for to develop
by snakebyte18 on Aug 21, 2011 12:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
paging Bryant McKinnie, paging Bryant McKinnie
Bell needs real competition. Bring some un OBD.
Goose22- "I have a quick first step, I’m so good just go an ask my rep
I look like Tarzan but play like Jane" Aaron May(have)bin
by WABillsfan on Aug 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I hope your page can travel through time, to when McKinnie was good.
by greysquirrel on Aug 21, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Funny
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
What can we agree on before we hang everyone on the O-Line.
I am believing everything I am reading and even though I plan to watch the game for the first time tonight at 7pm TW channel 16 I am curious to know certain things and agree on certain things.
The obvious is we lack depth or quality depth at the tackle position. Although, last week it was all about Urbik and Pears, this week it is about D. Bell. The obvious is that the O-Line isn’t ready for the season come September 11.
The curious part is how did the two teams game plan for this preseason game. Just by reading everything, I would suggest that Denver worked on pressuring the QB which sometimes comes in the second game more commonly comes in the third preseason game. The Broncos are talented on the defensive side of the ball with Dumerville and Von Miller. I am sure they want to get Miller as ready for the season as possible and Dumerville is someone to plan for regardless of the game situation.
Also, is it possible that the Bills were working on formations that required less pass protection for Fitz. Were there less Tight End help, were there empty back sets, Corey MacIntyre, etc….. Chan needs to install his offense and then measure it in the games and is he focusing on this more than what the defense is going to bring. Tabling his last weeks practice efforts of offense installation Vs providing additional pass protection.
A lot can be assumed at this point, the obvious is clear, but we don’t really now what options Chan had against this attack last night. He mentioned all last week that the timing of his offense was bad in practice all week. We have three weeks left to fine tune things. We have three weeks left to bring things together, is it to easy to say it is a work in progress, is that too much of an excuse? Or are we still installing plays, trying to get people involved in the offense as our main priority at this point? Sounds like the game was really ugly. At least we know what the Bears team and fans felt like last week.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
No offense to anyone, but Gailey answered my curiosity in his post game presser.
It is a must look, listen and hear. This doesn’t change the obvious but it does put things in perspective. Conclusion, at this point our offensive line, including tackles have not evolved enough to this point in preseason. Gailey points out that his base offensive line scheme could not handle the pass rush that Denver brought without scheming to protect against it. As Nic Barnett points out that the team had little to no time to game plan for last nights exhibition game. We are all flipping out over nothing other than our O-Line is not in mid to late season form in Week 2 of the preseason. WE may never get there, which favors the obvious, but it is not conclusive of the deceisions that the front office is standing behind.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
by VanScottM on Aug 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
it’s preseason. Maybe I should say it twice. It’s preseason.
by Billsdownunder on Aug 21, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, it's preseason.
No question that Bell was simply awful last night, but as Brian points out he was getting beat by speed rushers and in the past that has not been his problem. We need to wait until mid-September before reaching any judgments on him. If he is still playing at this level then, it will be time to start raising the roof about the starting OT’s, but to do that now is premature. Still, a fact is a fact and Bell was about as bad last night as a LT gets.
Yes... it is pre-season
And we’ve been horrible. We just got destroyed by one of the worst defenses last year. Meanwhile, the Texans, Saints and Pats 3rd stringers could probably hand our butts to us on a platter too.
Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!
by Run Thurmal Run! on Aug 21, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
And regular season is fast approaching and our O/L looked Terrible, just terrible.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Prior is no better than Fitz.
The only difference being that Fitz has NFL experience. We don’t need another Running Back playing QB.
Wait
If he can run sign him!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Pryor would fill the same role that B Smith already has. We don’t need his antics.
by TimEllis on Aug 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why, why, why????
Both Nix and Gailey have GOT to come to the conclusion that the O-line needs NEW players. Some of these guys CANNOT be coached any further. NIX absolutely needs to bring in players to work out. I honestly believe these OT’s have MAXED OUT in potential and its going to be a LONG and FRUSTRATING SEASON with them. We will never know FITZPATRICKS potential as a full-time starter w/ him running for his life and having to hurry throws that we never reach their targets. How can they(OBD) sit by and watch these guys struggle SO MUCH due to the O-lines INABILITY to block in what they call their BASE OFFENSE. If they can’t handle BASIC blocking; They surely cannot take on any more responsability. Why do They keep spinning their wheels with the same guys GOING NOWHERE! WHY?
We tried t get Clabo it just didn’t work out.
Kenny Powers is back!
by atlantalove on Aug 21, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Why Spin Wheels?
Because when the days done Ralph probably runs this team and controls all signing/ contract issues. Its the only thing that makes sense. Nix’s hands are tied and he and Chan work with what their given. Call out owner,not his minnions. This team is all Ralph’s good and bad!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I think your caps-lock key is broke.
Seriously… the caps are getting old.
Wow
I was really excited for the season last week and I know it’s only preseason but this team scares me. The OLINE is a complete mess Von Miller was constantly in our backfield and Fitz had no time to throw. Easley was very unimpressive and Donald Jones hopefully is OK but that was a nasty hit. Looks like the #2 WR situation is a bit up in the air with David Nelson the only the option for #2 if I recall correctly. McKelvin looked pretty awful IMO as well. The good things were that Spiller looked pretty good and the DLINE continues to impress me. Also I like this Brad Smith guy ;)
Kenny Powers is back!
the good thing
that gives me a lot of hope for the season is that our run defense looks stout. I give Nix credit where it is due, I did not think it possible to turn around a run D so quick but he has. Let us hope it can put Ryan Fitzpatrick in situations to win games, which I hope he can.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
At the time of Jason Peters trade the coaching staff at the time (Jauron, not say much) felt Bell was the better option than signing a high priced vet, this coaching staff feels pretty much the same. Bell must have what it takes. We got to remember this is preseason and while yes these are problem there is still time to correct them.
Yeah
So your saying the GM and coach wanted to get cheapest help available because they like a challenge? Sounds more like Ralph isn’t willing to spend much if anything to make this team competitive, except the Kelsay extension. Go Bill’s!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Guys
We can’t keep ignoring the O-Line in the draft. If your building a team you start there!
People need to relax just a little.
Its just a football game. I won’t let the team I root for make my life negative or ruin my day. Its sort of crazy how people where talking playoffs last week. Then because of one preseason game with no effort put out by buffalo everyone goes crazy. Its week two off preseason. Lets stop calling spiller a bust and calling the season over before it starts. Denver came out playing like regular season. Buffalo came out playing preseason and lost. Thats that lets move on with our lives and weekend s.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Aug 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
it has been about 160 football games
and that excludes pre-season
FA OL
Who are some of the available vets we could possibly look at?
by louiethegent on Aug 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Buffalo will add someone on the 31
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Aug 21, 2011 1:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
I’ll call that dumster diving, it worked real well to date. But can’t fault GM and HC for owners grip on his $$, their working the program, and I’m thinking applying for food stamps isn’t outa the question!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Even Chan Gailey has pleaded his case.
Buddy just doesn’t appear (to me) to care.
In the year two thousaaaaaaand.
In the year two thousAAAAAAND!
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Buddy Nix's quote about the him thinking the offensive line is better than the popular opinion
was jarring to hear when he said it a few weeks ago. I wonder what Chan thought of that one? I think Nix has since admitted the O-line may be a weak spot, but I still cannot fathom why D Bell was not given ANY competition whatsoever.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, this. But i’m not convinced it’s ALL Buddy. It might be someone who Dennis the Menace called out for on many an occasion.
In the year two thousaaaaaaand.
In the year two thousAAAAAAND!
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 21, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
Probably cares but Ralph’s cutting chks.!!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Bell's Offseason.....
A lot of hope was raised in January that Bell would really get stronger and better by having a whole offseason to work out and practice as opposed to only rehabbing and resting. Chris Brown has made no mention of Bell’s offseason since the strike ended (as far as I know) and that to me, is telling. Bell also missed time this preseason with shoulder problems and as far as I know, no one reported if it had to do with his surgically repaired shoulder or not, that sounds fishy. I am thinking that Bell couldn’t or wouldn’t train as hard as we would have hoped. The strike certainly had a lot to do with that.
I didn’t watch the game and I am too afraid to watch it now…..would anyone care to comment on why Bell sucked so bad?
My hope is, he will improve thru-out the year….
PodunkO - The great post ender!
well
i think we cant judge Bell after one bad game. He just did well against Peppers and no one said great things about him. Let’s see the next 2 games to say something. He’s not great, but not that bad, just average.
by Fernando brazil on Aug 21, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Williams, John Fina, Will Wolford. Those are the only three tackles the Bills have acquired in the first 50 picks of the draft, since the merger. Somebody in the organization apparently doesn’t think it’s a good idea.
by silvermike on Aug 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
Two out of three ain’t bad. You’d think they would be willing to risk it again.
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Aug 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec too
great stat, really eye opening.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Aug 21, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I put that elsewhere...
but I’ll bring it here.
I was asked where the Bills got the OL during the SB years.
Wolford, Fina, Jim Ritcher and Ruben Brown were 1st rounders. Kent Hull came with Kelly from the USFL. Mitch Frerrotte was a street FA, John Davis came in Plan B Free Agency (IIRC) and House Ballard was a late-rounder that developed.
Those were the key guys on the four SB teams, half of them were 1st rounders.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 21, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
actually, if you’re old enough to remember Will “Grab ’em By The Pants” Grant at C, you might say they got Kent HUll via an answered prayer.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 21, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
and, IIRC, Wolford broke in as a guard and moved to LT.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 21, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw
not like it matters a lot, but Chan Gailey said in his post game press conference that they were running base offense and base defense. The O-line play was simple, one on one or double teams. They didn’t chip, or push a certain direction on pass protection. So if they gameplan for the reg. season. and help out D.Bell with a RB or somone, he might not be awful. Also people were saying that the Defense didnt blitz. That is true, chan said they just ran base defense to see their weakpoints. And we found out that we dont get enough pass rush with 4 down linemen. Anyway its a preseason game. So come week 1 we will find out about our team.
Fitzmagic
Kellen Moore is not going before round 5 of the NFL draft.....
He’s a good college QB but he’s no where near the top of anyone’s QB draft boards.
He’s got a less than stellar arm, he’s barely 5’11" and about 195 lbs…….
I love watching the guy play, but he’s just too small.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Aug 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for focusing on this, Brian.
The play of the offensive line, and specifically D. Bell, was an extreme hinderance to the entire offense. CJ Spiller was often avoiding tacklers before reaching the line of scrimmage. One play, where Spiller ran into Fitz during the hand-off process, Bell and his guy (Dumerville) were right there in the backfield with them! I mean, when you can’t execute a handoff because the defense is already in the backfield, that is saying something.
In addition to the foiled handoff play, I counted one sack given up by Bell (the play he was cleanly beat to the edge by Miller) and at least 2 other instances of Bell getting beat easily that resulted in hits to Fitzpatrick, although the ball was out already. This is all in one half of play.
To make things worse, on the telecast it was mentioned how Denver was playing without their two starters at DT, out with injuries. And this was Von Miller’s second NFL game.
Also, if you go back and really focus on D. Bell’s performance, you will often see him “block” on running plays by falling into his guy’s legs and attempting to take him down that way. I’m not sure if this is a tactic employed by all the linemen, but it often results in his opponent being stopped for a second, but being able to stay on his feet and pursue the ballcarrier. It is not often where you see Bell really get into a guy and overpower him. I have noticed this in years past as well, and although it may work for him in some instances, it’s def not how I like my linemen to play. But maybe its just preference.
Maybe Bell (and the line in general) just had a bad day? I’m hoping this is the case, but my gut tells me its not so. It’s really not fair to Fitzpatrick. If the Bills realize that the offensive line is bad, and yet doesn’t address it and instead relys on the fact that Fitz is intelligent enough to get the ball out quick in the face of pressure is just not right. And maybe it’s why they chose to get rid of Lee Evans too…knowing that the time will just not be there in pass blocking for Fitz to get him the ball on deep routes? Again, if this is the case, it’s no way to run a football team.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 21, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I was shaking my head in disbelief watching the O Line last night
To make things worse, on the telecast it was mentioned how Denver was playing without their two starters at DT, out with injuries. And this was Von Miller’s second NFL game.
Second string tackles were blowing right through our starters.Granted that Bell was having a bad night,but geez,Levitre was getting taken out by power moves and spin moves.Urbik was not much better.Eric Wood must have felt like he was at the Alamo or something.Pears was slightly better than last week,but that’s not saying much..I honestly hope that Buddy has an eye out for roster cuts.Even a couple of players getting up there in age could help hold off the Opposition until we can draft some actual talent..
I thought it was a bit risky to not let the RB or TE's help in protection, but understood the reason.
Most tackles in the NFL will have issue with Dumerville, who is an elite rusher, on a 1 on 1 basis.
And the blown up hand-off was on Fitz and CJ. That was a fumbled exchange on their part, if it had been executed properly then Spiller would have been in the hole already when Dumerville got to Fitz.
WE SUCK REALLY BAD IF ITS NOT ONE THING IT ANOTHER
SO IF WE COULD GET A 2 ROUND PICK FOR HIM IM ALL FOR IT. NIX SAID HE WANTS TO GET YOUNG AND BETTER. WAT IF WE VE SEEN THE BEST OF FITZ LAST YEAR THEN HE WONT BE WORTH A 3RD
Not happening
Fitz want garnish any high draft pics and unfortunately I can see another ugly season ahead of us. But if there is any silver lining it’s next years qb class plz let us draft the man to lead this Franchise and with the next pick go get us an OT. Can anyone say luck
by diehard12 on Aug 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2nd
for Fitz? No one will offer that. They will offer a 4th rounder at best.
by Fernando brazil on Aug 21, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Very Funny
What you expect in trade? 6th rd.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
In other news......
My baby girl turned 18 today.
:-(
“Martha! Where’s my reading glasses and walking stick?!! Ima gonna go set out on the porch in my chair and read the Sunday paper!”
“Hey you kids….!”
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Aug 21, 2011 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sarg
It could be worse….mine are 35, 33, 30.
I can’t make it to the porch!!! :-P
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
by fansince60 on Aug 21, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and mine wouldn't help me get to the porch!!!:)
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
by VanScottM on Aug 21, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, Rec'd to both of you who know how I feel.
I used to be a tough guy.
Now I can’t even watch stupid old movies I’ve seen 15 times or CMT or GAC because I’m old and mushy.
“There goes, my li-ife, there goes my future, my everything, Daddy goo-ood night.”
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Aug 21, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you. My 33 YO son just moved back home with his mother. I guess he didn’t want to hear my “advice” if he moved back in with me. My other kids (in 20s) are doing well so far. I think they would help me out on to the porch so they could borrow my car though.
Life sure is funny.
Year two is upon us.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Aug 21, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine is living on my porch and likes the Bears. Sigh.
by LeClaire Bill on Aug 21, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Good
Good for you Sarge. Family is soo important, cherish it!
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That's where all the blame goes?
Watching the replay now…add jones, easley, fitz, the entire o-line, secondary…run defense, pass rush, etc…wouldnt just say Bell…i think the front office is a joke. I know its preseason, but i thought we would be a lot farther… The havent addressed the O-line! They traded their best receiver, and now no one can catch a bleeping pass…and the QB postiion is thin at best…honestly i am sick after watching this game…lifeless…brainless…absolutely sick!
breathe, breathe ….
Year two is upon us.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Aug 21, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
great
1st paragraph
"Alright Men, lets go out there, bust um in the chops & get somebody bloody. If your not a superstar you best be sweating that ass off. Take the W in battle & make the Bills Nation Proud."
by Blood, sweat & Win on Aug 21, 2011 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
Tackle
I still don’t get why they aren’t going after Stinchcomb from New Orleans? It’s certainly better than who we have now…
Lets play a game.
lets think of some better words for the title i’m thinking Demetrius Bell ABYSMAL in Denver Rush
Follow me on twitter @matt_young28
“Demetrius Bell Instrumental in Successful Denver Rush”
In the year two thousaaaaaaand.
In the year two thousAAAAAAND!
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 21, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No such thing as Chix
This is Gailey working with what Nix gives him.
Yep
Chix are for kids, their truly to seperate people/jobs. Ralph’s the problem.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 21, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Ralph the problem
Does he decide who is being drafted or picked up on waivers, etc: I think the main problem for this team is judgement of talent. Who ever is responsible for putting the starting players on the field like our first and second OL is responsible. Gailey may be a good OC but a head coach he is not. In his two years we still have serious problems with our OT. This year he added another problem at RG because he believes that the bigger you are the better you should be.
Interested to see what they do once teams start making cuts. It is imperative they bring in quality tackle depth.
Or quality starters…
In the year two thousaaaaaaand.
In the year two thousAAAAAAND!
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 21, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I watched the game a couple of times.
Bell was a train wreck out there. I know Ed Wang isn’t getting any credit but he was very, very solid in this game, with his extra size and strength really showing. I’d like to see him against the #1’s next week.
Free Agency
Has taken its toll on O-line play, teams used to build their O-line to stay together for years. There is no way for a team to keep paying top dollar to all 5 starters especially if a team is already paying for top players at other positions. O-lines for many teams seem to be in a constant state of flux… Lord knows the Bills have been going through this for 10+ years!
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
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