Bills' O-Line Changed Drastically In 25 Days
by Brian Galliford on Aug 23, 2011 10:15 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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My, how things can change in just 25 days.
When the Buffalo Bills opened training camp on July 29, they made a very clear statement about what they wanted their starting offensive line to look like. Demetrius Bell was the left tackle. Erik Pears was the right tackle, and Eric Wood the center. Andy Levitre and Kraig Urbik were the left and right guards, respectively.
We speculated at the time that other players - Geoff Hangartner, Chad Rinehart and Mansfield Wrotto, specifically - would sneak in first-team reps at some point, but it was clear that this was the line the Bills wanted to roll with.
Of course, when we proclaimed that those three players would get reps, we figured that Rinehart and Wrotto would be challenging for playing time at right guard and right tackle, respectively. Bills fans spent the entire off-season focused on the right side of the line as the perceived weakness of the unit. In 25 days, however, all of the attention has shifted to the left side, while Urbik and Pears seem entrenched as starters.
Here's a position-by-position rundown of how things have changed over the past 25 days at each line position. It's not surprising - to us, at least - that something has changed about the perception of each and every spot.
Left Tackle, July 29: Bell is the unquestioned starter, and does not appear to have legitimate competition for the spot.
Left Tackle, August 22: Levitre and Bell split first-team reps. More splitting of time is expected, perhaps in pre-season game No. 3.
Left Guard, July 29: Levitre is the unquestioned starter, and perceived by most to be the team's most consistent lineman.
Left Guard, August 22: Levitre is still running with the ones, but before he split at left tackle, he was already losing reps to Rinehart.
Center, July 29: Wood is the nominal camp starter, and Chan Gailey says that Hangartner will compete for the job.
Center, August 22: Hangartner is a forgotten man on the line, and Wood is now the unquestioned starter.
Right Guard, July 29: Urbik gets the first crack to lock down the job, but Rinehart is expected to get reps eventually.
Right Guard, August 22: Despite early struggles and only minor improvement, no player has yet to take a first-team rep away from Urbik.
Right Tackle, July 29: Pears gets the first crack to lock down the job, but Wrotto might get a look, if not a free agent acquisition.
Right Tackle, August 22: Pears has been quiet - which is probably a good thing - and hasn't lost a first-team rep yet.
Buffalo begins regular season play in another 20 days, when they travel to Kansas City for Week 1. Knowing how much has changed of late, it's possible that the line could look entirely different once again for the game against the Chiefs.
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“it’s possible that the line could look entirely different once again for the game against the Chiefs.”
Yea, hopefully there’s two brand new names in the starting lineup. We will just have to hope that a team with a fantastic o-line will dump some of their reserves, so we can pick them up. Then, they’ll come over here and probably be the best lineman in our starting lineup.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 10:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It wouldn't surprise me to see
RT: Pears
RG:Urbik
C: Eric Wood
LG: Rinehart
LT: Bell
Don’t forget Buddy braught in Pears, Urbik, Rinehart, Wrotto, Howard, Wang
There only holdovers are Wood – Arguably the best lineman on the team, Bell ,Levitre and Hang. hang is clearly entrenched with the 2’s and we cannot afford to cut either Bell or Levitre.
Buddy is slowly transforming this team into his team he has definatley put a stamp on it thats for sure but the list above is hand picked by Buddy, he braught all those guys in so it would only make sense that they start.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 23, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions
Would it?
How does starting inferior players make sense?
I am not sure why Levitre has fallen out of favor, in my opinion he is the most reliable and consistent performer on the O-line over the past 2 years (remember Wood has been injured).
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 23, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Only a guess...
But I would fathom since Chan wants to get bigger he really wants Rinehart to be the starting LG. This would enable them to call more G-Power runs to the right side with the LG pulling which is the one thing Andy doesn’t do that well. The frustrating thing is history has shown that you don’t need an OL to “be big” to be good. Chan – Please remember that the Bills used to have the “biggest” OL in the NFL a couple of years ago and they were terrible!
by JerseyBillsFan on Aug 23, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Chan thought Rinehart would be good enough at guard, where Levitre would best be kept fresh as the primary tackle reserve (he played tackle in college). The Bills seem to have a lot of reserve guard types, but the tackle situation is thin to say the least. Chances are high that Pears or Bell will be injured, so it would pay off to have Levitre ready. Wang definitely doesn’t seem ready and Hangartner can’t plan tackle.
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
What’s changed with Bell? I thought he was, while not great, passable last year. And he was supposed to be in better health with more time passing since his knee injury.
Now he looks terrible and I’m not sure he even touched Von Miller on the one sack.
Maybe that weight he put on during the lockout wasn’t actually muscle.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 10:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bell,s weight...
I think the lockout hurt him the most, and maybe the shoulder surgery didn’t heal properly….
What a nightmare start to the season, one thing then another.
a lot of it having to do with money.
Go bills,
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 23, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I noticed there’s a comma after your “Go Bills”. Your subconscious wanted to add a “but” after that comma :)
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But...
Being a bills’ fan is a tough job for tough people.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 23, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 12:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My other issue is
There are still decent lineman that are unsigned,
Leonard Davis
Word on the street is tha Gurode is on the trading block
Vince Manuwai
Brian Waters a pro bowler last year
Im not gunna lie I dont no much about his aside from the fact he started 4 straight years in tennessee – Tony Brown
John Stinchcomb
And I would add Bryant McKinnie but from what i have read people are afraid he would keel over from a heart attack if he were to start playing.
But I mean whats wrong with bringing in Waters or Davis or even Manuwai to teach the young guys.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 23, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions
It is amazing
How the casual fan could see what a hot mess this situation was, yet Nix kept proclaiming how he was basically happy with what he had.
In my opinion the best O-line as it stands now is:
LT – Bell
LG – Levitre
C – Hangartner
RG – Wood
RT – I really don’t have an opinion… How about Wang (because he has a cool name).
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 23, 2011 10:30 AM EDT reply actions
Why can't
people see this for what it is? CHIX are masterminds and they are being innovative by being the first team in NFL history to develop an offensive line where every lineman can play every position! Annnnd, they’ll do it without spending one draft pick in the process! Genius!
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
If only the Bills had a way to acquire new players somehow
like through a draft or some sort of free agency period….
oh, wait, we just went through those? And all the Bills got was a 4th round pick at tackle? Nevermind.
Maybe next year someone can let Buddy Nix know when Free Agency starts.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 23, 2011 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Maybe next year someone can let Buddy Nix know when Free Agency starts.
And maybe next year, Free Agency won’t be delayed until two weeks before camp due to a labor dispute . . .
.
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
I think you mean
Maybe next year someone can Wake Buddy Nix Up when Free Agency starts. It starts at midnight.
is chaos brewing again at one bills drive
something tells me chan and buddy are having a real fight out over this whole O line thing.
Chan is not happy, Buddy is sitting on his hands…
are they really willing to throw another season down the toilet for more high draft picks?
leaves a sick feeling in my stomach, ditto with Jackson expressing his frustration.
CJ Spiller can be a 5-10 play player and make a difference as a chance of pace runner and receiver. but freddie needs to be secure and working with his line.
obviously, short pre season/training camp makes this all very difficult for coaches and players.
they said they wanted competition, what they did not say was whether they wanted competition between bad and worse or good and better.
at least the defense might stop the run this yr……
******** I THINK JERRY SULLIVAN SAID IT BEST...*******
The Bills have some of the most loyal fans in sports. There need to Billieve(I changed)…is always greater than reality. But the they’re not stupid! They know when management is sincere about winning.
This a true statement. We can see what a mess this team is. Why so many changes to the O-Line, why trade Lee? Look at our WR corp now. Nix said there was a log jam at WR. But it’s not deep, look at it now minus Lee? Our secondary looks like old swiss cheese. Its absolute CHAOS @ OBD!
by Dareurush! on Aug 23, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This thought by Sullivan is ridiculous
It’s the result of emotion getting into the way of fact.
Fact: Nix is from the Polian line of front office men. Call them Polianites, if you will, and they have their own philosophy:
Polianites believe in long-term viability through draft, both to build the team and then to reload the team. to low- round draft choices develop. That’s why the Colts going for offensive line in the first two rounds this year was uncharacteristic.
-Polianites don’t wade into free agency in a large fashion, as it undermines tenant #1.
-Polianites tend to get rid of the players from previous regimes.
-With respect to the offensive line, Polianites don’t draft a ton of offensive linemen high, tending to let mid
Nix is a Polianite. He’s going to let mid- to low-round draft choices like Urbik, Pears, and Rinehart develop. He tried to get Clabo, but the cost was too high. He’s not going to go get Leonard Davis or anyone else since it could undermine the development of the current guards.
And above all, he’s not going to freak out. Nix helped guide San Diego from extremely muddy 1-15 waters to a consistent playoff team. That navigation wasn’t always calm waters.
The idea that Buffalo isn’t sincere about winning is ridiculous, especially if Levitre ends up being a good tackle.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Aug 23, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Without crossouts, hopefully
It’s the result of emotion getting into the way of fact.
Fact: Nix is from the Polian line of front office men. Call them Polianites, if you will, and they have their own philosophy:
- Polianites believe in long-term viability through draft, both to build the team and then to reload the team.
- Polianites don’t wade into free agency in a large fashion, as it undermines tenant #1.
- Polianites tend to get rid of the players from previous regimes.
- With respect to the offensive line, Polianites don’t draft a ton of offensive linemen high, tending to let mid to low- round draft choices develop. That’s why the Colts going for offensive line in the first two rounds this year was uncharacteristic.
Nix is a Polianite. He’s going to let mid- to low-round draft choices like Urbik, Pears, and Rinehart develop. He tried to get Clabo, but the cost was too high. He’s not going to go get Leonard Davis or anyone else since it could undermine the development of the current guards.
And above all, he’s not going to freak out. Nix helped guide San Diego from extremely muddy 1-15 waters to a consistent playoff team. That navigation wasn’t always calm waters.
The idea that Buffalo isn’t sincere about winning is ridiculous, especially if Levitre ends up being a good tackle.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Aug 23, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The idea that Buffalo isn’t sincere about winning is ridiculous, especially if Levitre ends up being a good tackle.
isn’t that an oxymoron? :)
by J2 on Aug 23, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
More posts like this please. . . . DJ I agree w/ you
I think it’s funny that Bills fans claim to be so educated yet they want to overhaul their FO every 2 years! What top tier franchises do this?!? Nix is fine . . . he’s doing a great job, believe it or not this is what a winning franchise looks like when it’s not winning but is starting to turn the corner. There will be hurdles and bumps, but if we stock our roster with talent we will win football games. True or False: We have more talent on our football team this year than last year? The answer to this question is undoubtedly, True. If you think otherwise than there is truly no point in you reading my post further. As for Gailey shuffling Levitre around the line, wouldn’t you? There are two top talents on this line and I believe Levitre is one of them (Wood being the other). If he does indeed become a serviceable LT then Gailey has done his job as a head coach, he has gotten the best players on the field at the same time. Albeit, at the two most important positions on the line. This team/roster, and I will probably get backlash for this, is only a top third QB away from the playoffs, and I’m assuming that CHIX knows this and will address it in next year’s draft. All these other complaints and issues mean nothing until we get a franchise guy in here to carry us.
Remember Chan took Mike Tomczak to a divisional playoff! The guy can coach QBs!
Newton will be a BUST at the next level, mark my words. He looked very pedestrian in the BCS game. He might be full of Athletic abilities but so was Vince & Jamarcus. He can’t read a defense to save his life! - Keysh67
Why Not Hangartner at Center????
While Hangartner is not at elite Center he was consistent and a decent job last year. I have to believe that we are stronger with Hangartner/Center, Wood/RG than any combination with Wood playing Center.
They should have kept Hang at center from the start, for the sake of continuity during an extremely short preseason. It’s sad that right now I’m longing for last year’s Bell-Levitre-Hang-Wood
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wood is the center of the future for this team and is more than capable of taking over that position now so he should. The problem is they’re starting Urbik at RG, a position Hang is more than capable of taking over with almost no notice. I think they’re happy with Pears at RT and know they have issues with LT and are trying to figure it out. Barring the signing of a Left Tackle I think our lineup for KC will be:
LT – Levitre
LG – Rinehart
C – Wood
RG – Hang
LT – Pears.
If we pick up a good serviceable LT then I would expect either Rinehart or Levitre to move to RG but as of right now they see the left side in more need.
Totally agree...
I thought as well that last yrs line was way better than this years. All we needed was OT help. Now our line is a mess. They could make changes next year when they have a full off-season to tinker w/ the O-Line. It’s sad and I know its only the start of the 3rd week of pre-season but the rest of the NFL is way ahead of us. Why? If these guys are this bad then cut’em and bring in someone else. I rather lose w/ guys who trying to win than guys trying to get their check!
yea
this is getting embarassing again… whats up with wang? buddy drafted this guy and it looks like he is the worst tackle on the team.. great news.
My O-line would be:
Start Ten linemen and direct snap the ball to Fred Jackson. We will go to the Superbowl behind this line.
Acquistion Karma
we are due & not the waiver wire.
Evans for a 4th, Lynch the same, lets reverse that & get a oline starter for a Draft Pick, yes Trade a Draft Pick (or a player). There Have to be new admins who want to purge the roster as Buddy & Chan have been doing, can we do this??
Yes Buddy I know how it was done in SD, but you have to adapt too. What about #56?, throw him a bonus to reel in a disgruntled OT somewhere, he knows one or two.
"Alright Men, lets go out there, bust um in the chops & get somebody bloody. If your not a superstar you best be sweating that ass off. Take the W in battle & make the Bills Nation Proud."
by Blood, sweat & Win on Aug 23, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The fact that they are trying Levitre at LT is just pathetic
This front office just seems to lack the ability to be proactive. it’s tiresome hearing the same excuses that Buddy wanted to fix the run D first or they didn’t like any of the OL available or whatever. The bottom line is that Nix has had two off seasons and the OL is worse than it was. We’re not asking for 5 Pro Bowlers, but competence and no upheaval and reshuffling would be nice.
Outside of Center and I guess RT, no position is set. That’s just ridiculous at this stage.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 23, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
It really does seem like the Bills cannot "anticipate" problems
It’s only after they are forced into making changes because something is terribly not working that they try to fix things….but by the time they realize it, it’s too late to do anything substanial about it until next year! It’s like they cannot project anything and fix it proactively.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 23, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup
That was one of the major problems the failed Levy/Jauron era had and its been apparent as part of the Nix era now too. Waiting for Fitz to fail at QB, waiting for the OL to fail, waiting for young, undrafted WR’s to prove whether they can be long term options, waiting for Merriman to get hurt (zing) before trying to add another pass rusher and so on and so forth. I understand not fixing every issue right away, but come on, don’t completely neglect such important pieces of the team then give some explanation that doesn’t quite fit.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 23, 2011 11:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Neglect
I doubt it is neglect. I mean neglect would imply that they dont care about the Oline and will just let Fitzy get slaughtered. What Gailey is saying recently and doing is the opposite, they are trying to fix the situation, it just wasnt a top priority. I am not saying it should or shouldnt have been; they have alot of knowledge about these guys I wont see until a few games into the season. What I am saying is that they fixed the D and seem content with it being a competitive group when all is healthy, and now it is time to fix the oline. I think the new focus will be the oline and not stopping the run, because i think our new pickups on defense will help a ton in that aspect.
are you going to wait for the house to fall and then blame it on the weak foundation? Or fix it by adding support to the structure?
In Ralph we trust
They Did
They build the Dline, which is more of a structure necessity. If you cant stop the run, you dont get the ball. Once you have the ball, you need to figure our how to keep it. We are in step two.
I don't think its anticipation
More like to patient or neglectful.
In no way shape or foirm, can they view this OL as starting calibre.
I am no Fitzy advocate but at the same time how can you expect a guy to do his job when he is constantly under attack
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 23, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally Disagree
I think this is a move ahead of the curve of the league. If they can move around lineman and use confusion to change up defensive schemes/assignments, its something the league hasnt seen and is ahead of the curve.
Now this could not be the case and i could be totally wrong. Or your concept could be wrong. We wont know until the season develolpes.
You don't move around OL players
Because they stink where they are and call it being ahead of the curve. DL’s don’t care who’s trying to block them and it certainly isn’t confusing to see a different guy in front of them. The players we have mostly stink and that’s what the problem is.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 23, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I Hear Ya
I played Oline in HS, but not any collegiate or NFL level. Our blocking was pretty simple, hit the guy ahead of you. There was some pulling, but not much prevention from Stunts etc.
So my point is, i dont know what it takes to be an NFL lineman. I understand our players are sub par, and we havent dont jack to fix that. That is frustrating, however i think there is a possibility Chan is trying to fix this to the best of his ability with the current group of players. If Denver gameplans all week to Exploit Bell through putting their top rushers lining up over him; then gametime rolls around and it is being switched between Levitre and Bell; if Andy has more success against those guys it will definatly throw a few screws in the way the Defense has schemed and prepared for that week.
Yes it might be me grabbing straws, but I cant talk negativley about something that i dont know what the outcome will be. It COULD work. so why not give it a chance?
Offensive Line Coach
Who coaches the offensive line? Maybe the problem with the line isn’t the players but the coach.
Agreed
Interesting Chan is spending some time with the O-line, he may agree.
I assure you he doesn’t. He and D’Alessandris have coached with each other for quite a while.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 23, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe D’Alessandris.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 23, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe D'Alessandris
Saw footage of him coaching the guys at Senior Bowl practices. He seems like a great coach. Either way its DEFINITELY not his fault.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 11:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
D'alessandris...
I watched him coach on tv too. he seemed excellent, not only that, I saw results last year. I thought they looked way more organized from 2009 to 2010.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Aug 23, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Buddy's philosphy seems to be....
1) Focus high draft picks on D and non-QB playmakers
2) Focus FA on D, QBs
3) O-line you can build with anyone
- is not looking too strong right now….
yep...
Thought I put in #3. Wow, quick reply!
Ha. Got enough problems without starting to assert the defensive rebuild has stunk….
by greysquirrel on Aug 23, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
you likely did. It’s a peculiarity of the blog. It does that when trying to itemize lists.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
Yes. It annoys me, too.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 23, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s another possibility. The guys we have are ok and they just need to find the right way to line them up. They accomplish this by opening day, and everything ends up cool.
Can’t wait for the next article that doesn’t have anything to do with our O Line. I’m finding these threads to be depressing and cumbersome.
by The Adam Bomb on Aug 23, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for accuracy in fan opinion.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I am Feeling Quite Veclempt....I will give you a topic, talk amongst yourselves...
No Seriously, what does everyone think about what i say below? With all the changing defensive schemes in the NFL, and each team having a speed/strength advantage; why not rotate your Oline depeding upon the scheme you are going against that week? I read a comment on the depth chart yesterday mentioning that nowadays the depth charts arent really accurate in naming positions, as they change play by play.
So why should the Oline be the same? Is some guys have speed over strength and vice versa, if we can shuffle the oline around so the Defensive assignments get messed up, wouldnt this work out in the Bills favor?
D-line rotates for run vs. passing downs, seems like it might make sense for the o-line to do something similar. Except there is more synchronization and communication on the o-line. Might just end up being a hot mess. But interesting to think about.
by greysquirrel on Aug 23, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the defenses could figure out which lineman were primarily in there on running plays and which were primarily passing, so they could better guess exactly what wed be doing based on the positions those players are in. We could use that to confuse them by running the opposite, but then we expose the weaknesses head first.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or defenses could watch our preseason film and say, “Hell, they can put these guys where ever they want, and we can get around them no problem”.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
Right.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men." -Unnamed NFL CBA negotiator
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Aug 23, 2011 11:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Isnt that Gailey's strength
Being creative and tricking the defense. Imagine the same five lineman going into the huddle, then lining up differntly when the come out. It might be the only thing that saves the line? And it would be ahead of the current NFL curve, instead of playing copycat which the BIlls have done for years now. Teams that stay ahead of that curve are successful.
I still think it ends up being Bell Rhinehart Wood Urbik Pears, but maybe Bell is regressing. That would be bad. He acquitted himself in some touch games last season, so if he is going back to 2009 Bell we are in trouble.
That being said, these coaches seem pretty intent in motivating each and every player. That means competition. Competition for Fred, competition for Levitre, competition for Bell, I don’t have a problem with that. When all is said and done this line should be better than last years. Could they have paid a high priced free agent? Maybe. But other than that I’m not so sure we had a ton of options. All the top tackles were gone by the end of the first.
There is a plan
Just don’t expect OBD to explain it to you. It seems to me that they are trying to prep players for back up roles and to get them used to the players around them… Also, it is preseason so I don’t understand the panic. The BILLS are in YEAR TWO of this regimes rebuild so please limit your expectations. It’s going to be another long season so I suggest you buy beer in bulk!
by phalupah on Aug 23, 2011 11:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
"I don't understand the panic"
Kind of like the Titanic captain saying, “It’s only a little ice”
Unfortunately, “the plan”, like the rest of the iceberg is under water.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
Considering they haven't even played the third PRE-SEASON game, it is a bit comical.
Is it un-expected to us the fans, absolutely. Is Chan dissapointed in Bell’s consistency, absolutely.
I commend them for letting Rinehart get reps at LG. Any player who is performing well should be rewarded with an opportunity. If he upgrades LG how is that bad exactly?
Now, I don’t think Levitre will make it as a LT, but this is the time to see what he can do there instead of possibly wasting away on the bench. At worst, they can field the same OL from last year.
I believe you quoted that old addage a few days ago in regards to the OL “doing the same thing the same way and expecting different outcome is the definition of insanity”. Letting players compete for jobs is rarely a bad practice.
Bottom line, no one has been cut or named a starter yet.
by lonestar_ak on Aug 23, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No OTA's
is a major contributor to a lot of this. Too little time, too much to assess & fix.
What the O-lineman are thinking!!
When I get to play on the outside then I go back to the middle of the line
Where I stop and I turn all positions are intertwined
’Til I get to be the guard and I see you again, yeh, yeh yeh
Do you, don’t you want me to be the starter
I’m coming down fast, but I’m I should be a starter
Tell me, tell me tell me, c’mon tell me I ain’t no prancer
I’m bigger and stronger and really need an answer.
Look Out!
Helter Skelter, Helter Skelter, Helter Skelter, yeah …
Helter Skelter, Helter Skelter, Helter Skelter, oooh…
Look out here comes the line coach
Helter Skelter,Helter Skelter
.
.
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
Poor Helen....
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
Gailey is making the right move
I have been a strong defender of Demetrius Bell over the years, but there is no question that his performance Saturday night was horrendous. The only remedy for that is to force him to compete to keep his starting job. Giving Levitre reps with the 1’s at LT was thus the right thing to do — although it raises the concern of diverting Levitre’s attention from the competition he is engaged in at LG. Bell SHOULD be able to raise his level of play to at least where it was last year. If he can’t then he needs to be demoted.
At least the coaching staff is responding to this issue quickly rather than ignoring it or pretending it away. They deserve credit for that.
Five Starters, two reserves and the two most recent draft picks equal nine offensive lineman.
If the team keeps nine offensive lineman and we don’t sign anyone and cut someone else, this is a must move. Sounds like Andy LeVetrie could come out of this the most or least valuable. Bell, LeVetrie and Rinehardt are getting the most attention right now. They must be viewed upon as very intragal parts of the roster. IMO that would leave Hang and Wrotto as the remaining two contenders for the last roster spot. But anything can happen. I have Hariston going to the practice squad, but that may not be consistent in Nix’s plan.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
Reminds me of what the Bears are doing with their line
…make of that what you will
“Buffalo begins regular season play in another 20 days, when they travel to Kansas City for Week 1. Knowing how much has changed of late, it’s possible that the line could look entirely different once again for the game against the Chiefs.”
Uh-huh. And I predict it will look like this:
LT – Levitre
LG – Rinehart
C – Hangartner
RG – Wood
RT – Bell
.
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
Not panicking
I won’t start to panic until after the season starts. I want to see who Chan plays where before flying off the handle, calling the move “desperate”, or any other silly notion. It doesn’t reek of desperation, it reeks of not having an off season to judge these things. It reeks of trying to get the best 5 players on the OL week 1.
If the OL is playing horrible during the first few weeks of the year, then I’ll speak up about how poor of a decision it was to try Levitre at LT. Until then, none of use know why this is happening or what the outcome will be.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Aug 23, 2011 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd.
Well said, stetz. I would add to your points that Gailey can’t really tell who is doing well just in practice – he needs to see them react in games. So far, we’ve only had two and he’s only got two more to evaluate his guys until the real games start.
I’m not quite ready to push the panic button. Yet. Although I do have it cleared off and ready to be pushed at a moment’s notice!
by ChuckBuffInFlo on Aug 23, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Prepare yourself for the worse, O-line should be for the most part together and working on their timing and preparation. Each day is like a pick-up game~~you try left guard, you try left tackle and who volunteers for right guard & tackle… Ah we’re set at center today-Wood snap the dam ball.
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
Yes, it’s a little strange to not be set this far into the pre-season. But at the same time, we have a bunch of guys that Gailey hasn’t seen play in live game situations much that he wants to test. We also had no offseason. I’m giving Gailey a pass on this preseason. It’s impossible to put together an effective OL with players you haven’t seen play before and without an offseason.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
After watching the Bills try to assemble a good offensive line for the past 12 years what is happening in camp right now leaves me with very little optimism… By the time they find a cohesive unit the Bills quite possible will be deep into the first half of the season…
What is going-lack of talent and not even close to a starting 5 on has all the makings of a disaster…I hate being a doomsayer but it is shaping up as a long season a head.
.
.
"Only in a rock and roll band can someone like Keith Richards perceive himself as the responsible one."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
And Mckinney just got signed by the Ravens.
:-(
"There is not a loser in this room." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Aug 23, 2011 6:18 PM EDT reply actions
Perhaps the Bills
are using pre season, to judge who to keep and who to let go
Just like every other team………………………….
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Here's a FA OT with Chix connections
Andrew Gardner just cut by Bengals
Was all ACC for Chan at LT at Georgia Tech
Drafted by fins in 6th rd 2009
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