A Few Thoughts On The Bills' "Five Best" Lineman Theory
by Brian Galliford on Aug 23, 2011 1:10 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintCommenting Monday afternoon on the state of his offensive line, Buffalo Bills head coach Chan Gailey used the "five best guys" rationale for his experimentation at left tackle and left guard.
"My job is to get the five best on the field," Gailey told reporters. "Maybe that's our five best, is playing Chad (Rinehart) at guard and Andy (Levitre) at left tackle."
This is a valid, if cliched argument - and it leads to two lines of thought for me. One is a question, the other a rationalization. Let me know if you agree with either stance.
The Question: Seriously, how is 28-game starter Geoff Hangartner not counted among the five best blockers at One Bills Drive right now? Last season, Gailey repeatedly expressed his desire to get bigger and more physical up front. He's clearly trying to achieve that now, and Hangartner is not the type of physical lineman that the Bills seem to prefer. However, it'd take a lot to convince anyone that Hangartner doesn't at least deserve a shot at a starting job -particularly at right guard, where Kraig Urbik has been passable at best, and awful at worst. Beggars can't be choosers. Hangartner deserves a look through the lens of the "five best" philosophy, if only because of the inconsistencies of the players in front of him.
The Rationalization: I've never seen fans scour a waiver wire (outside of fantasy football, anyway) the way that Bills fans have kept track of every available offensive lineman this off-season. Y'all have heard that Bryant McKinnie is available, right?! Fans are obviously not happy at the lack of attention that the offensive line has received in two years of the Buddy Nix regime, but they shouldn't be surprised, either. And I don't say that in the usual sarcastic manner reserved for our comments sections; there's legitimate history here.
Back in February 2010, when Bills fans were discussing the merits of 2010 NFL Draft prospects Anthony Davis and Bryan Bulaga, our very own 'kaisertown' pointed out that the San Diego Chargers lacked a strong history of investing in the offensive line while Nix was their Assistant GM. Read it, then don't be surprised when further investments resemble previous investments like Urbik, Ed Wang and Chris Hairston. That's just how Nix works.
Even if you disagree with that philosophy - and I certainly do - Nix is not a stupid man. You don't stick around this business for decades, plural, without being competent. If he's scouring the available linemen every day and not making a move, then I trust that he's not impressed with what's out there. Frankly, I'm not either.
I also have to believe, based on my belief that Nix is not a stupid man, that he'll be looking long and hard at the list of roster casualties once cuts start coming down in early September. It was in that fashion that the team added Urbik last season (and later Rinehart and Mansfield Wrotto), and it doesn't seem like a stretch at all that Nix could find a young player or two that fit the "five best" theory - if not now, then at some point in the future. They clearly feel that way about Urbik right now.
Thus, the rationalization: I don't expect any imminent signings up front, even given the current state of affairs, but I also believe that Nix's eyes are very wide open looking for reinforcements. As they should be. Gailey seemed to imply that they'd explore other avenues, as well.
"You'd rather not look at those options at this time, but you have to," Gailey said Monday. "Sometimes you don't get to do it exactly like the book - kind of like quarterback last year. We didn't get to do it exactly the way we wanted to. You have to be smart and use all the things at your disposal to make good decisions."
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Buddy's Philosophy
I’m concerned far more with his prowess as a talent evaluator along the OL at this point than whatever system he uses.
wow. said this exact thing about Hang in the comments last week
he should be involved
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak" "Did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor!!??"-John Belushi
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Aug 24, 2011 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
3 year plan...
Are we on a three year plan:
Year 1-Last year, evalute talent (off and def)
Year 2-Current, build Defense, D-line, CB & Saftey Depth
Year 3-O-Line rebuild
by mquintieri on Aug 23, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why wait? I guess that’s my complaint. They’re so far under the salary cap that they could easily have picked up a few more guys, even if it’s just for camp competition. The crew they have now are a liability towards the investments that they plan on having around after the rebuilding period (Spiller, Fitz, etc).
I think Buddy Nix is thinking about re-signing players that have performed (i.e. Stevie Johnson). I also read an article on SI.com that said that the teams that are up against the cap might be in big trouble if they get some injuries. It said that they would have trouble signing people to replace the injured player. To me that means that they would have to cut a player or more to do so. That is not a good position to be in at all if that is the case.
5 year plan
Years 4 and 5 we’ll need the OL (and new QB?) to develop and gel. I can only assume they’re going to build through the draft and any OL will need time to adjust to the NFL.
But as for NOW, why wouldn’t hang be on the line as he’s proved himself at the NFL level? Maybe b/c it’s preseason and they’re still evaluating talent? I kinda hope so.
by buffaloparks on Aug 23, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, how is 28-game starter Geoff Hangartner not counted among the five best blockers at One Bills Drive right now?
I’m confused by this as well. I thought last year our line was starting to gel toward the end of the year. I still think that Hang should start at center or RG with Levitre at LG not LT.
"Sit down and watch my Buffalo Bills destroy your Kingdome" - Abayarde
Very nice piece. I think we can learn something but not assuming Nix is a daft old man with no clue. We can take issue with his results (or maybe his priorities — as Brian does) but what the Bills office does or doesn’t do with specific players tells you what they think of available players. It’s not that they aren’t evaluating guys, it’s that they don’t like them and more are gonna become available. Signing names that are coming off injuries is something any fan can do (Gaither, McKinnie, Stinchomb), but finding a solid healthy contributor off of a roster cut takes a scout most of the time.
My only issue is I’m not sure why Urbik’s reviews are so negative. Besides a glaring error in the first game, I haven’t seen him as one of the consistent ‘issues’ on gameday. Is this based on camp observations? Does he look to struggle consistently in practice?
I think part of Urbik’s negative opinion is due to lack of fluidness and how awkward he looks in space sometimes.
Then of course is the crux of the matter that people only see those glaring failures. Similar to Levitre’s rookie season where he got blown up on a couple bull rushes in the pre-season.
Hopefully Brain’s words will carry more weight with people and help them realize that just because someone does something a different way than you would does not mean that person or group is a drooling idiot as Nix is often portrayed around here.
by lonestar_ak on Aug 23, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some guys can fall through the cracks, but the 9th and 10th OL that are getting cut by other teams, and late round draft picks, shouldn’t be the majority of your OL, particularly your starting OL.
I think another frustrating aspect is that Clabo didn’t sign that unreasonable of a contract with the Falcons. The Bills could have done enough to trump that to get him to sign – they certainly have the money to do so, particularly now that they’re saving Lee Evans’ money. And with the neglect they’re giving Hangartner these days he could get cut too.
For some, money is not the only issue..
I think this is the case with Clabo. Yes, the Bills could have thrown more money his way that what he eventually signed for, but Clabo seemed to have things beyond money which impacted his decision. For one, he is established with the Falcons and wanted to remain with that team. The Falcons have legitimate playoff potential and that certainly entered into his thinking. I think he got a salary consistent with his own desires and was satisfied with that amount. Why make such a move if a bit more money is the only reason and money is not your sole consideration? Nix is doing OK. Remember, Clabo was a retread FA, not a high draft selection.
Why is Hangartner at Center?
I understand that Wood played Center in college. But from what I seen last year w/ Levitre, Hang, Wood manning the interior, I thought they did well. There main concern was the OT positions. What happened? Now our line is in disarray. Why can’t they just look for OT help this year. Then next season when the FO has more time, they can flip flop the line and make adjustments and draft accordingly. I to want the 5 Best guys…but for this year I think we only need OT help. We have a week and half to try out new guys..We have roster space. What could it hurt now?
Hangartner simply not as god as Wood at Center
Because Hangartner kept getting bullrushed at Center by all the huge NT’s now in our division and in the league. He doesn’t stand up well to that kind of pressure. That’s why Gailey is looking to upgrade. But RG is a little different and I am as surprised as Brian is that Hangartner is not getting the chance to at least compete there.
lol
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
by buffalobacker on Aug 23, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
applauding Nix's philosophy
would be like applauding the person who’s walking to work, when, in fact, he’s walking because he deliberately slept in and missed the bus.
Sure, maybe it’s laudable that he’s out there walking, but, had he done it right and gotten his a$$ out of bed when he should have, he’d be at work and being productive.
Buddy’s missed the bus! Decades of experience doesn’t change that.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
by fansince60 on Aug 23, 2011 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I kinda like this analogy. rec'd
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 23, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree to some extent. In your analogy, Buddy missed the bus on purpose, and has to walk to work as a result. I think it’s been pointed out several times that OL is just not one of his priorities, just like “catching the bus” in your analogy. Sure we don’t have to applaud him, or agree with his decision, but it’s not as a result of incompetence. It’s just how he believes he can best build a team to be competitive over the 4 or so years he has to rebuild it.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Aug 23, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK, but, he himself said the OL was a top priority.
If he chose to walk to work, it was because of his hubris and “I know more than you” attitude coupled with maybe a riverboat gambler penchant for bluffing. How does a GM strike out negotiating with so many prospects, if he’s an impressive, let’s git ’er done, sort of guy?
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
How many prospects did he strike out with?
I assume you don’t believe that we offered a contract to every player that we were rumored to be interested in. So you are calling him a failure in negotiating based on Poz and Clabo, which are the 2 FA’s that I think he truly pursued, non-signings?
Since when has going 0 for 2 been considered okay? Not only did he miss out on signing Clabo and Poz but we also had contracts out for Burnett and lets not forget Whitner. While I agree he isn’t a complete failure at signing FA’s (he did bring in Merriman, Barnett, B Smith, etc) he did say the OL was his TOP PRIORITY (so was resigning Poz) and he failed to accomplish his goal. That is in fact a failure, he had a goal set and didn’t reach it. Bottom line.
I think part of it also is the Terry Pegula effect. For years we were told that top FA’s would never want to come to Buffalo, it’s too small a market, it’s too cold etc. and Pegula put all those myths to rest. He made Buffalo a FA destination and now many people are looking to the Bills and asking what’s their excuse now?
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
How is it 0 for 2 when he brought in 3 FA's??? That would make them at least 3 for 5, no?
I was asking what his reasoning was for calling him a negotiating failure to make sure I understood. He may have had a different reason than I was assuming.
You can’t assume that we had a contract offer out to Burnett just because there was a rumor we had interest. Rumors are started all over the place during FA and many of them are proven to be baseless. I do believe where there’s smoke there’s fire, but I just didn’t see a ton of smoke with Burnett.
I was dissapointed to lose out on Clabo, but never expected him to sign here without a monster deal being offered up. Why would he want to leave the team that pulled him off the scrap heap and turned him into a pro-bowler and that is a SB contender? When I saw what Poz signed for I said thanks to Buddy for not matching that.
He's a failure because
For 2 years he has said that the offensive line is his top priority and so far has not shown much action to improve it. I don’t consider signing other teams P.S. guys and drafting lineman in the 4th and 5th rounds helping this team. I’m not saying they have to take offensive lineman in round 1 or sign the top FA lineman but he has yet to bring in a single upgrade. All he has done is replace a bad lineman with another bad lineman or have an average lineman compete with another average lineman or worse. Bell has yet to have any sort of competition, who is Pears competing with for RT, Levitre had no competition until this year with Rinehart who I would say is average at best.
I’m not saying he’s 0 for 2 in bringing in FA’s I’m saying he is 0 for 2 in successfully accomplishing his own top priorities and that’s not good. Say what you want about Poz but the guy was a leader and a good tackler. He wasn’t spectacular but he wasn’t bad. I don’t mind him not paying top $ for Poz but DON’T publicly say Poz is your top priority then if you think he’s replaceable or not worth top dollar. Same for offensive tackle if you think your line is great and not needed of upgrade fine, but don’t say it’s your top priority and then completely neglect it which in my opinion is what he has done for 2 years now.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Aug 24, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I think it's a bit premature to call any GM a failure after 1 season
I would think you would at least them play 1 or 2 real games in their second season before sending the lynch mob after them.
Just because they go about it differently than you or I would doesn’t make them failures or incompetent, their results on the field do. Season 1 was about as expected, season 2 needs to see significant improvement, that’s the bottom line in my book.
correction I should say he is a failure thus far
I never once said he should be canned yet or have called for his head. All I have said is he is a failure so far for the reasonsI he pointed out.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
Run Defense was the issue last year
The main issue last year was the run defense and Nix has addressed this. Our offense was scoring points and we were in most games right down to the wire. Our defense couldn’t stop the other team from running over them. I have no issue with Nix spending this year to build a defense. it is a known that it is easier to get up to speed on the defensive side compared to the offensive side. With the time limitations and the quality of FA Tackles I feel Nix went with what he had. Lets face it would you rather play for a playoff team or a 4 -12 team. Some NFL Analysts felt that Clabo through the Bills around to get a better deal with Atlanta but never really considered them as a destination. I for one am finally happy we have a plan and a direction for once. just my opinion though
What's the plan or direction?
When Nix came in our teams biggest weaknesses were QB, LT, and OLB. Through 2 free agency periods and 2 drafts our team weaknesses are still the same? Merriman if he can stay healthy (which is a big question mark) may address the OLB need but the other 2 are still big holes that he has yet to fill. Also since becoming GM he has now made WR an area of weakness by trading Lee Evans with nobody to fill his shoes (sorry nobody has impressed thus far or even looks like they want the job). Has traded away our #1 Pro Bowl RB for a measley 4th round pick. Since being GM he has said that their top priority is fixing the offensive line and he has yet to do that! All I’m saying is that Nix is a failure thus far in my view. He talks a good talk but when it comes time to putting his plan into actions he does not come through. This FA period we had the fortunate opportunity of being well below the salary cap and a plethora of good or at the very least upgradeable free agents availible and Nix did not act nearly as aggressive as he should have. I’m not saying go out and be the Redskins but at least bring in upgrades, bring in playmakers. A slash player like B Smith, and a 2nd string QB in Thigpen were not big splashes to make this team much better. Resigning D Flo does not make this team better or upgrade the CB position, it just keeps it where it is (average-below average).
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
That may be true, but there have been several occasions now where he’s said one thing publicly and then done something else entirely. I think the OL priority fits into this category. I’ve stopped assuming that what Nix says in public has any bearing on his actions as a GM, for better or for worse.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
From my view
there really is only two logical conclusions about what Buddy is doing with this team. -Either his hands are completely tied by RW or he is very incompetent with building a football team. He has had 18 months now to get better along the o-line. The O-line is in incredible amount of turmoil. Drafting projects like Wang is great when you already have a foundation, not when the team needs actual players to play.
-This idea that Buddy is not stupid does not sit well with me. He very well may be incompetent in building a football team. I would love to hear how he deserves any bit of praise in how this team is constructed right now. Outside of Dareus (great pick), and Merriman (waiver claim), how is this team better than it was in 2007,08,09.
how is this team better than it was in 2007,08,09.
It might not be… Ugh
"It’s like I’ve always said, don’t tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby."
- Buddy Nix
"How can a guy with a name like Melo be such a pain in the ass?"
- George Lopez
by dnvrBillsfan on Aug 23, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how it’s better than it has been, but I hold out hope that the defense (specifically the run defense and pass rush) will be better this year than it has been the last few years.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
two logical conclusions about what Buddy is doing with this team. -Either his hands are completely tied by RW or he is very incompetent with building a football team
.
I can think of a third conclusion: his hands are tied by the process. A GM can’t turn a team around in one season. I thought this 2011 draft was quite good. Nix seemed to forsee which veterans were out the door; he picked two ILBs and a safety. Also, say what you will about scraping other teams’ practice squads, I liked the constant influx of healthy NFL-ready players last year. Scott Chandler may just be a nice surprise.
Chandler will be a surpise if he catches 20 passes this year. You’d think Buddy would realize the importance of a quality TE (Gates in SD). I refuse to consider Gailey an offensive guru if he doesn’t include a pass catching TE in his offense.
by buffaloranger on Aug 24, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I refuse to consider Gailey an offensive guru if he doesn’t include a pass catching TE in his offense.
I agree with the sentiment, but if he’s able to get 23 or 24 points per game out of this offense without using a pass catching TE, you’d still call him an offensive guru.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
This seems to be a trend..
Read the article about the Ravens O-Line on profootballtalk. They picked up a cast of from NE to start at RT but are now considering McKinnie as a replacement. This is a team that is supposed to have great management and personnel and they are still movin theor O-Line around.
Sometimes you have to overpay a little in the NFL
The basic argument in this piece is sound, but the fact remains that we would be looking at a totally different situation now if the Bills had been willing to put up the money to lure Clabo away from Atlanta. Clabo is both relatively young and very solid, having worked his way up from being a UDFA, and he could have been installed at RT, leaving the Bills with the option of starting Pears at LT if Bell wasn’t performing (Pears started at LT for Denver for a full year and did reasonably well). Yes, we would have had to overpay a bit to get Clabo, but the teams that make it to the top in this league are willing to do that on occasion to make sure they get the pieces they need to reach the plaoffs and beyond. The Bills needed a top-notch OT more than any other position going into this season and they could — and should — have been more aggressive pursuing it.
by Macktruck on Aug 23, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I totally agree.
Unfortunately, this is a team that considers 3 or 4 million/yr to Evans as overpaying they’re not willing to do.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Aug 23, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Macktruck, I agree, and Sawyer, your dead wrong. Evans was NOT, in any way, shape, or form a money saving trade. He was traded now because the Bills clearly were not going to resign him after next season, and they got something (which I think could have been more).
With that said, I think overpaying for some linemen is ok, but where does it end? Remember when everyone wanted us to make a splash in FA and we ended up with Cornell Green? Sure, Clabo is a better player (IMO), but at what point do you say the skill doesn’t justify the salary? We can go on and on about what we (amateur talent evaluators) think, but the fact is, if they front office doesn’t think they are going to see a return on the investment, there is no reason to make that investment.
"Winning is not a goal. It is a belief."
-Terry Pegula-
by Eric Murawski on Aug 23, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, wait ’til Evans scores a game-winning TD in the playoffs and the opposing team claims that they offered the Bills a third rounder for him.
I’ll be staying up night and day waiting for this, dont you worry!
"Winning is not a goal. It is a belief."
-Terry Pegula-
by Eric Murawski on Aug 24, 2011 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
He would have been had for 6.5 million per season. Not overpaying that much for a pro-bowler.
And what are the winning lotto numbers again?
"Winning is not a goal. It is a belief."
-Terry Pegula-
by Eric Murawski on Aug 24, 2011 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
for us to be sitting where we are relative to the salary cap, have the o/l we do, and not aggressively try to sign Clabo is a joke
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
How do you know we didn’t? The fact he kept the Falcons stringing along for so long suggests otherwise.
Because we should have offered 6mm
That’s not an unreasonable contract in the new cba environment and for the reasons Mack stated.
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
That doesn’t answer the question. How do you know we didn’t?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
exactly. Money talks, to a point. If we tossed him 10/yr I am sure he would have come to Buffalo, but that would be a stupid investment. Chances are, Clabo used the Bills as leverage against the Falcons and got the money he wanted, while staying where he wanted.
"Winning is not a goal. It is a belief."
-Terry Pegula-
by Eric Murawski on Aug 23, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s exactly what I think happened. I keep saying it, but I think that he wasn’t coming here for anything short of an outrageous contract. But even that is speculation, because none of us know for sure.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
You think he took 5 from Atlanta when we offered 6 ?
No way.
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
Of course I do. Wouldn’t you? I would. You’d have to really overpay me to come to a laughingstock of a team in this league and leave a perennial Super Bowl contender and division favorite. He was not coming here, for almost anything.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Same here
Plus his family is probably settled there too.
On a side note, I really like what the Falcons have done since the Vick ordeal.
by lonestar_ak on Aug 23, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
But Brad Smith did ?
We overpaid for Smith and we needed to for Clabo— or at least try. I thought that was Mack’s point
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
I know what Mack’s point was. My point is we have no idea what was offered, and nobody has any proof one way or the other. I happen to think we offered him at least $6.5M, and he turned it down to stay with Atlanta, which is where he wanted to be.
But all I was saying is that we don’t know what was offered, so conjecturing and blaming Nix for not offering enough is an exercise in futility.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I hope you're right that we offered 6.5
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
the Bills offered 5.5 million
Atlanta 5. Lets see, leave a contender for 500,000 per season. Not a serious offer in my book and Clabo thought the same. Prolly a public relations stunt.
Where did you see that we offered him 5.5 a year?
I’d love to know what we offered him, but I’m not holding my breath since that info never really comes out.
What did the Bills offer Clabo?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
That's what he got in ATL, not what we offered.
I have seen no reports on what our offer was and we likely never will.
I’m fairly confident we offered him more $ than ATL, but you can’t blame Clabo for the choice he made. Put me in his shoes and I’d take 2mil a year less to stay in ATL.
It had to have been at least as much, because it seemed very clear he was only leveraging us (or any other team) to get Atlanta as much.
Check out buddynixon.com for more of my work.
I’m fairly confident we offered him more $ than ATL
What makes you confident of that, lonestar?
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
If we hadn’t offered him more I don’t see him even considering us honestly.
The fact that he kept mentioning us specifically as a final suitor tells me we had a serious offer on the table to him. I don’t consider a 5mil per year offer from us for a pro-bowler serious.
sound logic
ok, I can see that. The logic works for me. The only question I would have then is whether Clabo was publicly bluffing to get the Falcons to match our offer?
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
Possible, but very risky I think
I think he had a good enough offer from us as a fall-back in case ATL got tired of being held hostage.
Remember, they had other FA’s they wanted to re-sign but they had to take care of Clabo first since he was their #1, per the team, priority. They easily could have given up on him if they were worried about losing all their other FA’s, a la Jets and Brad Smith.
by lonestar_ak on Aug 23, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
4yrs/$22M
He took 5yrs/$25M.
Had the Bills budged on the 5th year, they might’ve been in the game, but Buddy wouldn’t. I doubt Buddy would offer Phillip Rivers a five-year contract if he were a free-agent.
Clabo’s preference was to stay in Atlanta. Half-a-mil more per year for one less year and $3M less in total dollars wasn’t overpaying enough to pry him outta there.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 24, 2011 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
too pessimistic
the line is better than last year because we added a decent RT (Pears). While it seems it is in turmoil at the moment by sept 11, it will be set. The defense is going to be 100x improved over last year with dareus and merriman and being used to the system. and the offense will build on last year. while we wont be a .500 team we will be improved. and next year we will draft our franchise QB and a quality starting tackle because the defense will have its starters in place and our only “holes” will be QB and OT. Build through the draft.. look at the steelers, pats, chargers. way too pessimistic for preseason week 3 of year 2 of a major rebuild, that will take at least 2-3 more years until we are a playoff contending team. Hav to be realistic.
Fitzmagic
by tomcs on Aug 23, 2011 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
just makes sense
in 05 and beyond, Bills fans who talked about how we needed to build through the draft unlike what Donahoe did, said that you have to draft front seven guys because the defense has been so poor against the run. It has been worse than our o line and that is very clear. Our offense was effective, but the D terrible and was still last year. We drafted a bunch of rookies in the front seven the past two years and the year one guys will have developed. Gailey seems to be practicing these guys hard and I think we are gonna have diciplined football team that is going to be competitive and progress through the year, ending on some real highs. If we could somehow land a top flight QB and an OT and then draft multiple OTs afterwards with a TE or so sprinkled in… we will be in very good shape. The scenario only works if draft picks pan out though. Thats why Jauron failed… the draft.
I'm waitin'..... @killascript on twitter
by killascript on Aug 23, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Long Term Talent Evaluation and Team Building
I think everyone is off the track. I don’t think CHIX is thinking this year or next. I think they are thinking about building a dynasty. And you do that through the accumulation and training of good young players. Not by necessarily counting wins and losses when you don’t have the horses to win big.
If OBD is serious about this effort, then they are not taking short cuts and they are giving every young player a chance to stay with the team as they sift through what talent they have. That means capable youth over capable experience, but not necessarily incapable youth over capable experience.
True this may mean a few less touches for Fred to bring Spiller up to speed, but if CJ is not getting it done, he’ll be situational. That’s a statement that they are putting immediate winning in the back seat and focusing on putting the best talent in place to win over the long haul.
Go big or go home.
by jackkemp15 on Aug 23, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Interesting read, this one.
So if Gailey is trying to find his “five best” to start at O Line, and his quest leads to mixing and matching guys and switching their positions and assignments, then it stands to reason that in an in-game situation, mistakes are going to be made and the overall product is going to look sloppy. It also stands to reason that when his task is complete and his guys are locked in to their positions, that the unit as a whole is going to look better and play better over the course of time (which sucks, because the season starts in a couple of weeks).
Furthermore, we might (and I do stress might) be unfarily judging some of these guys too harshly based on their preseason performances.
Off the subject, any of you out there feel that earthquake? Pretty cool!
Back in February 2010, when Bills fans were discussing the merits of 2010 NFL Draft prospects Anthony Davis and Bryan Bulaga, our very own ‘kaisertown’ pointed out that the San Diego Chargers lacked a strong history of investing in the offensive line while Nix was their Assistant GM. Read it, then don’t be surprised when further investments resemble previous investments like Urbik, Ed Wang and Chris Hairston. That’s just how Nix works.
If the Bills are in a position during the 2012 draft where the obvious choice is an elite LT and they choose a different position (minus elite QB) then I am going to have to tweak my opinion of the Gailey/Nix regime. The goings on with reference to the O-line the past 2 years have been conservative at best and highly questionable. I hope the larger plan addresses this situation soon.
Wishful thinking?
McKinnie, Levitre, Wood, Hangartner, Pears or Bell – Starters
Bell or Pears (whoever loses RT battle), Hairston/Wang (one of the two, other to PS), Urbik, Rinehart – Bench
I think this is our optimal line.
http://twitter.com/#!/CLoSkills - Sports talk/opinions on Twitter, follow and I'll return the favor.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now
With all of the changes that are occuring that are going on with the OL, PLUS the recent feelings communicated from Freddie J… I urge you all to repeat after me…
Serenity now…. Serenity now… Serenity now…
It worked for Kramer!!!
Ubriks last stand
Frankly I feel Chan knows what he has in Hangartner and knows he can start without much reps. My guess is this is Ubriks last addition this saturday and if F’s up, he will ride the pine. Also makes sense with the Reinhart/Levitre situation.
Point about Nix from another thread
I wrote this in another thread in response to criticism that Nix and/or the Bills aren’t interesting in winning now.
Nix is from the Polian line of front office men. Call them Polianites, if you will, and they have their own philosophy:
- Polianites believe in long-term viability through draft, both to build the team and then to reload the team.
- Polianites don’t wade into free agency in a large fashion, as it undermines tenant #1.
- Polianites tend to get rid of the players from previous regimes.
- With respect to the offensive line, Polianites don’t draft a ton of offensive linemen high, tending to let mid to low- round draft choices develop. That’s why the Colts going for offensive line in the first two rounds this year was uncharacteristic.
Nix is a Polianite. He’s going to let mid- to low-round draft choices like Urbik, Pears, and Rinehart develop. He tried to get Clabo, but the cost was too high. He’s not going to go get Leonard Davis or anyone else since it could undermine the development of the current guards.
And above all, he’s not going to freak out. Nix helped guide San Diego from extremely muddy 1-15 waters to a consistent playoff team. That navigation wasn’t always calm waters.
And what is happening now is similar. Teams like Indianapolis and San Diego took time to build, and they don’t often have down years (San Diego’s down year would have been considered great here in Buffalo). Buffalo isn’t going to get better by fixing everything in free agency.
And really, what’s to say Levitre won’t do well? Dave Diehl is a guard that’s played half a decade as a left tackle and done well. I, for one, think a Levitre-Rinehart-Wood-Urbik-Hangartner-Pears line might actually develop, gel, and do well. That’s how offensive lines work: adding talent doesn’t always remedy things. Putting five guys together that work well together does.
A dose of patience might be well served right now, considering pre-season is only half complete.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Aug 23, 2011 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 19 recs
DJ bringing it back to reality!!
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
Thanks....
…. it sure is better to be doing it now -rather than Week 4. No OTA’s didn’t help.
Unnoticed in all of this is that Colin Brown has moved up and is with the 2’s at Guard. He’s s huge – and supposedly athletic guy and I guess has passed by Wrotto.
I'm usually pretty positive
But Wrotto needs to go. Go Brown!!!!! lol
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Thank you Der Jaeger
I couldn’t agree with you more.
But, I also understand many of the fans frustrations…after all I’ve been a Bills fan since 1960, and seen some pretty ugly Bills teams.
I understand the frustration as well
Ten years of suck sucks. But the way to vote is at the ticket office and on message boards.
That doesn’t mean folks are right. Pissed off, yes. Whether our analysis is correct is highly debateable.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Mobile rec’d dj. Its posters like you and poz that keep me coming back.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Aug 23, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Levitre-Rinehart-Wood-Urbik-Hangartner-Pears line
I agree that having 6 OL out there would help :).
Kidding! I see your point, but where I don’t agree with Nix (or Polianites) is that they tend to rid themselves of players from previous regimes. Especially when performance on the field is the benchmark for who plays/who sits…F-Jax, Hang, Levitre…these guys haven’t done anything but been around longer than a year and a half.
I’m OK with the Buddy Plan or whatever, building through the draft and such, but when guys that have performed don’t see the field over Buddy’s hand picked guys, I think it’s an issue.
by buffaloparks on Aug 23, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Check out who was on the Colts prior to Polian taking over, and the Chargers prior to Butler taking over
They kept some, but got rid of a lot.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
That's fine
My point is mainly that they seem to be keeping “their guys” at the cost of pretty good football players. It leaves a sour taste in the mouths of some players and fans. Ultimately if the Buddy System yields a Super Bowl (heck – even some deep playoff runs…OK ANY playoff game at this point) we’ll all look back and say good on ya’ Buddy.
Regarding Polian – he also drafted Peyton Manning as his first order of business w/ Indianapolis and got Kelly to sign w/ Buffalo finally. Not saying we had a shot at a Manning-caliber QB, but having Manning (or Kelly) as Polian did made the Polian System a heck of a lot easier to work. I just hope “franchise QB” is valued as highly w/ Nix as it was with Polian.
by buffaloparks on Aug 23, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
DJ
There are few, if any, opinions here I respect more. Your thoughts are eloquently presented and logical.
But, for a rare time, I respectfully disagree with you. Polian might be able to operate in the manner mentioned because of the presence of Manning. And even then, the last draft, as you point out, leads me to believe Polian is operating differently. He did what he had to do to “reload”. Further, I don’t see Polian dumpster diving to put warm bodies on the line. In fact, if our acquisitions were so talent worthy, I’m sure he would have made a play for any or all of them to protect “the franchise”. He made no such effort.
In any case, there is a difference between drafting linemen in middle/later rounds and not drafting at all.
I cannot make the connection between Polian and Nix from a personnel evaluation standpoint. You are giving Nix much too much credit. The fact that he is into his first GM job at this point in his career and it’s with the Bills also supports the fact that he’s no Polian.
I truly hope your patience is rewarded. I do not share your optimism.
Again, well said and well written.
Y'all- There's a "D" in rebuild, but no "O"- The gospel according to Buddy Nix 4:12
by fansince60 on Aug 23, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But that's Polian's attitude now
… after he’s created the team he wants. Since Tarik Glenn was drafted in 1997 up to this year with Costanzo, the Colts have draft 3 offensive lineman in the first three rounds, and none in the first round, yet have landed guys like Ryan Diem, Jake Scott, Charlie Johnson, and Jeff Saturday.
Polian can purely focus on the offensive line now because he’s got a top-tier team, and can afford to commit a draft to one area. Up to that, though, he didn’t.
I’ve got a story coming up on offensive lines and how they are built. It’s not around top draft choices.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
I am very interested in that story DJ. My casual observation has been that a lot of the best lines are a mix of UDFAs low round picks, second stops for players and maybe one or two guys who were drafted in rounds 1-3. But they developed consistency. Fixing a line isn’t just about big time FA and high draft picks.
by greysquirrel on Aug 23, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to be interested in that as well.
He already had Kelly, Thomas, Reed, and Bruce, but Polian DID use 1st rounders here on Will Wolford, John Fina and Ruben Brown, blending them in with USFL refugee Kent Hull, the ‘Pit Bull’ Mitch Frerotte off the street, John Davis in Plan B and House Ballard (late-rounder who developed) to create and reload the lines on the SB teams.
I’m with the camp that LT is the 2nd most important position on offense, and the two tackles are half of the top-4 (with the QB and his favorite WR). But I’m willing to have my mind changed.
by Brian in Shortsville on Aug 24, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Manning can make any Oline good enough. If Polian added better Olineman maybe the Colts run game would have improved. Would that have helped them win more SBs? Unless a team is winning multiple SBs (not just making the playoffs) there is always room for improvement, is there not?
by buffaloranger on Aug 24, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
BTW, Polian dumpster dove for Jeff Saturday.
Saturday was undrafted, signed by Baltimore, then waived. Pretty decent return for dumpster diving.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Aug 23, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Additionally
and I do realize it does not involve a Polianite but Clabo, the RT that Bills fan were screaming for? Yep…undrafted free agent.
Punt?! In our moment of triumph?! I think you overestimate their chances!!
Chan Gailey to Brian Moorman
by TexasBillsFanatic on Aug 23, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Initially he was a scrap heap guy
But he went into this off-season as a proven RT.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Yep, just pointing out that he wasn't a high draft pick and turned into a Pro-Bowler
I’m a firm believer that OL talent is developed in the NFL, rarely drafted. It’s all about toughness, attitude and football intelligence for OL in my opinion. I think those traits are tough to determine on college film where these guys are usually much stronger and larger than their competition. That’s why there are so many misses in my opinion, to twist the adage a bit….it’s easy to look like Tarzan when you’re playing against Jane.
Look at how many of the top tackles drafted in the last few years are really struggling with their teams. On the other end, look at how many UFA’s and mid-low round picks turn into solid starters around the league.
by lonestar_ak on Aug 23, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
For every undrafted and waived guys like Jeff Saturday there are 100 below average Olineman. See: Bills revolving door on Oline over last decade.
by buffaloranger on Aug 24, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And that strategy was fine, if it was 1985.
Quite frankly Bill Polian’s lack of free agent activity has probably cost the Colts a Super Bowl or two, ESPECIALLY in regards to the offensive line.
We’ll see how this approach works without maybe the greatest pre-snap reader QB to ever play the game works out.
That's debateable
The Colts have been viable in the playoffs for a decade, and won one Super Bowl. I can think of few, if any, instances in the playoffs where additions via free agency would have turned the tide of a playoff loss. Eg: which free agent(s) would’ve allowed the Colts to win against the Pats in te 93 and 94 playoffs?
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Bill Polians strategy's
Have also taken the Colts, to a SuperBowl or 2
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
So if Polian would have added more talent through FA the Colts would have been less successful? Or adding better skilled players wouldn’t have made a difference?
by buffaloranger on Aug 24, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Differnce between the Three
When Indy or SD had a high top 3 pick, they took their Franchise caller. The Bills tood Dareus, who will be a beast; but if they would of taken Gabbert it would be comparable.
Nix has a good track record with selecting QB's
Although I wanted Gabbert like no one else on this board, it’s hard to debate the Dareus pick.
And John Butler did bypass QB when he traded down to take Tomlinson, passing on Vick. There’s no way for him to have known that Brees would be a franchise QB. So, essentially, he did pass on a franchise signal caller from 2001 to 2003.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Fact is NIX has NEVER selected a QB, oh wait I guess you are referring to Levi Brown?
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 23, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Nix was the assistant GM. Sure, Butler and Smith made the choices. But those two and Nix interacted as equals. Nix had a big voice in SD’s decisions, and he was the scout that looked at Brees and Rivers, and it was on his recommendations that both were drafted.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Nix had a big voice in SD’s decisions, and he was the scout that looked at Brees and Rivers, and it was on his recommendations that both were drafted.
Honestly, how can you say this, if you have an article stating this fact please reference this, otherwise it is complete heresay.
The ONLY QB we know definatively that Nix drafted is Levi Brown, so far that has not worked out, so based on facts he is 0-1.
Again, I am not saying he didn’t have anything to do with the Chargers drafts, I am just stating that providing him with credit or responsibility is speculation.
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 23, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not speculation
E-mail me and I’ll tell you why.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
With respect to the offensive line, Polianites don’t draft a ton of offensive linemen high, tending to let mid to low- round draft choices develop.
Bill Polian has overseen what I believe are 20 NFL drafts as a General Manager. In that span he has taken an offensive lineman before the end of the third round eight times. Thats higher than you let on here DJ. Even further, I believe the Peyton Manning factor matters. Prior to the drafting of Peyton Manning, Bill Polian had overseen 8 drafts. He had taken a lineman before the end of round 3 in four of them, or roughly half. Of the 8 drafts out of 20 that Polian took an offensive lineman before the end of round 3, seven of them were taken in rounds 2 or 1, five of them were taken in the first round.
Obviously, Buddy Nix’s sample size is very small so its hard to tell if he will be like Polian but Polian didnt shy from taking offensive lineman early and still doesn’t.
Patience is very much needed, Nix’s team has yet to take the field for its second season but I wouldnt characterize Polian as someone who doesnt take early lineman
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 23, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
great stuff, Poz. Rec'd.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 23, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks bro
though it should say
“Of the 8 TIMES out of 20 DRAFTS” not “8 drafts out of 20”
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
Somewhat
Polian engineered 22 drafts for the Bills, Panthers, and Colts, and drafted 10 lineman in the first three rounds, with 69 picks in those rounds, drafting offensive linemen 14% of the time, for a position that represents 17% of most NFL rosters, and 22% of their starters.
The best baseline for drafting is the Steelers, who change little over the years, have been successful, and don’t hop around the draft board like crazy. In the past 22 years, the Steelers have had 72 picks in the top 4 rounds, selecting 13 linemen, drafting offensive linemen 18% of the time for a position that represents 17% of their roster and 22% of their starters.
If we accept the Steelers as as good of a baseline draft as we can get, Polian is below the average.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Nicely said!
We drafted Wang and Hairston. Look without an O-Line you have no team, you can’t run or throw. You leave your defense hung out to dry, so if it were me, I would start building my team there first.
But you seem to completely ignore
the “Peyton Manning” factor that I discussed above. I believe Polian’s numbers are very much average and are just lowered from having arguably the greatest QB of all time.
It should come as no surprise that Polian took offensive lineman early far more often pre-Peyton Manning and only now is starting to do so again as Manning begins to age and he tries to extend his aging prized QBs career as long as he can. When you have a QB like Peyton Manning he can completely cover-up lineman deficiency and Polian wisely adapted to that. I strongly believe this accounts for the slight dip in Polian’s percentage.
Perhaps the most important number of all, because Buddy is rebuilding and has only been a GM for two years when determining if he is a “Polianite” is what Polian has done in the first two rounds of each of his three rebuilds that resulted in him developing winners quickly and efficiently at all three stops in Buffalo, Carolina, and Indianapolis.
In Buffalo, Polian’s first draft’s early rounds netted (Since he was actually promoted to General Manager) two offensive lineman.
in Carolina, Polian’s first draft’s early rounds netted an offensive lineman and a QB.
In Indianapolis, Polian’s first draft’s early rounds netted a QB (the Peyton Manning factor)
At each of three different rebuilding stop (he was rebuilding the Bills the team he inherited was terrible) in his first draft Bill Polian has consistently proven himself to deem offensive lineman and QBs to be vital. Buddy Nix in his first two drafts in Buffalo’s rebuild has selected neither through two straight drafts. Im no sure how Polianite that really is.
If we consider the “Peyton Manning” factor that resulted in him taking less lineman from his drafting to when he began to age, I dont think one can call Polian a guy who steers clear of early round lineman. When we look at how he began each of his three insanely successful rebuilds we see that all three began with lineman or a QB or both. In Buddys brief tenure he has started his rebuild with neither and has yet to take one of the two in his early rounds.
I think we can make numbers say what we want so Im not sure what mine mean any more than yours. I just dont know that its really fair to anoint Buddy Nix a “Polianite”. I think Bill Polian is maybe the greatest executive of all time and I just dont see what Buddy is doing that is emulating that success he’s had.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
Polianites
You’re only focusing on Polian himself. John Butler and AJ Smith also follow the same drafting/team building philosophy, and it took them years to turn around the Chargers.
Additionally, Polian took 2 years in Buffalo before his turnaround took hold. He engineered the 1986, 1987 and 1988 drafts prior to the first “turnaround” season for Buffalo, in 1988.
Each situation is different. Polian began in Buffalo with only Will Wolford drafted highly. Brown and Fina came way later. In Carolina, he drafted only Brockermeyer early. So, Polian’s not “loading up” on linemen early, in the early rounds.
Even so, Nix took over with recent draftees in Wood and Levitre, so it’s not as if Nix inherited a completely empty cupboard.
Your point on Manning is taken. Polian inherited Kelly and drafted Kerry Collins his first year in Carolina.
So, if you’re saying Polian always goes QB and linemen early in his turnaround is only partially true.
Nix as a “Polianite” is simply taking a look at the track record. The manner in which Nix is building the Bills, with the exception of the QB early, is completely consistent with the manner in which Polian, Butler and Smith have built teams in the past, particularly the offensive line.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Yes, yes, yes! Thank you. I cannot say that I am happy with every move the front office made, however, there are things that I like about Nix, mainly his adherence to his philosophy, and not freaking out
Bills fans as a whole seem to forget history very quickly. Lets look at coaching. Everyone last year wanted a proven talent at coach. None would come, and how his Shannahan doing in Washington? Not to well. Backup plan was to get a up and coming coordinator. Remember Gregg Williams? How about building through FA. This year (and last) I read countless comments bashing the front office about not adding pieces in FA. Remember when our FA haul was Robert Royal, Cornell Green, and….(the former center I cannot remember his name)? Remember when everyone was really mad the Bills didn’t take Clausen? Well, how is he working out down there in Carolina?
Sometimes we have to realize that these guys know a little more than us, and might be going about solving our problems a little differently, but that doesn’t mean they are wrong.
The Bills are really terrible, and have been for many years now. Terrible teams don’t (often) get good in a year or two, and when they do, they usually come back to earth quickly (see: Miami). I for one believe we are going about building a winner in the only way possible for this franchise and this location, and that is build your team through the draft, and add depth and select help from FA.
"Winning is not a goal. It is a belief."
-Terry Pegula-
by Eric Murawski on Aug 23, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The cost was too high
The cost was too high for Clabo? If the Bills had sweetened it by another mil per season and offered him 6.5, he would be a Bill. That being said, how much are the Bills under the cap? Not buying that one boss.
Comparing the Chargers development to the curent Bills situation is certainly optimistic. The Chargers had Brees than Rivers. Gates as the #1 TE in football. TEs only block in the Bills offense. Oh yeah, they had that guy Tomlinson too. Not to mention Merriman 1.0. Bills have nothing remotely close to that. Nothing. Even. Close.
Every year optimistic Bills fans list the castoffs we have at Oline and say the same freakin’ thing. “I think this Oline may be good, all they need is time to gel.” It happens every year! Ex: Bell will be a quality LT all he needs is time to develop! Where did Bell go? Why is it the the the Bills FO is finally realizing he is not a staerter now?
Every single year they are one of the worst Olines in football – not solely based on sacks, but on QB hurries, rushing TDs, 3rd and 1 conversions, etc. Rinehart, Urbik, and Pears and complete scrubs that wouldn’t even make the roster of last year’s playoff teams. I can understand an Oline trying to incorporate one guy with questionable skills … BUT THREE??!!
The Bills are constantly throwing other teams cast offs and practices players at the wall and hoping one will stick. When will it end??!!
Teams will double Stevie Johnson and blitz every single down. And the Bills won’t be able to stop them.
by buffaloranger on Aug 24, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Take a look at this before dismissing the Chargers-Bills comparison.
Starting the official Buffalo "Draft a Quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Some sanity
Thanks Rec’d and what is up with that MFDoom guy why is there no block this poster on here? It is like reading an anti fan forum at times.
the evil plan
yeah, yeah and yeah. Nix is doing his thing and grabbing whatever he finds off the wires…blah,blah and double blah. i am not buying that the guy is an idiot. nor am i buying into his history of doing things. nope, i am way too smart for that! the plan all along has been to be the worst team and draft Adrew Luck. how brilliant! build up your defence and have it ready for 2012. the league will think we are trying so no penalities from Marshall GoodiePants. We throw an average QB out there who can’t throw deep and has nobody to throw deep to. he will run for his life and make big mistakes, oh why did it take me so long to see OBD’s brilliance??? i can breathe peacefully now knowing all is well and we ain’t crazy!
Brian, I'm trying to make sense of the "rationalization" part of this article
Let me know if I have it right:
- Although he’s never come out and said it, past Buddy Nix history indicates that he does not often use high draft picks or big name free agents to staff the offensive line.
- Although the fans have can disagree with this philosophy we believe Nix has, we do not have to like it (like you may not like it), but your here to tell us we shouldn’t be surprised by it? And we should not be surprised because of inferences we can make of decisions made by the Chargers when Buddy Nix was there? (And also because Nix has stated he will not be active in free agency)?
- Ok. So we can disagree, but we should not be surprised. What does that do for us?
I can that if somehow the fans elected Buddy Nix as GM of the Bills, and in his job interview beforehand he straight out told us he would not upgrade the o-line via high draft picks or free agent signings…..and then, all of a sudden us fans were mad that he held true to what he said in his interview, THEN I can see saying, “Hey, you guys should not be surprised at this. This guy came out and told you beforehand how he would build the team and you STILL elected him GM.” In that scenario, you point about not being surprised would carry more weight.
But nobody here signed off on such a plan. Nobody here hired Buddy Nix and “signed off” on how he were to build the team. Ok….so I shouldn’t be surprised based on how he’s built other teams….again, what does that do for me? I’m still very much against this “rebuilding plan”. The fact that I should not be surprised should somehow mean something to me? You get my point?? Not trying to be overly critical….just wanted to know what the greater point is in “you should not be surprised”
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
He's saying a fan that has done proper research on Buddy Nix and his methods should not be surprised...
A fan that has not done his research can be surprised, but could have avoided that surprise if proper research had been done.
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Aug 23, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok….so I shouldn’t be surprised based on how he’s built other teams….again, what does that do for me?
Make you react differently? Rather than acting surprised, you should act justifiably pissed off. I just laugh when I see a comment like “I CAN’T BELIEVE that Buddy hasn’t gotten us a lineman!”, because it’s exactly what he’s always done. :)
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
@BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Aug 23, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, ok. Thanks for the reply and not taking my comment as too critical
So your not saying you shouldn’t be angry because its not surprising….more you just shouldn’t be surprised, period, unrelated to how you feel about if the strategy is right or not.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 23, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Having re-read it, I think you made it pretty clear.
I just got a little confused I think about if there was a greater point in there.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Aug 23, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm..I get your point and its true.
Question? How many Super Bowls did San Diego win with Nix involved in the front office? So maybe that philosophy is flawed! Isn’t Nix a proponent of taking the BPA? Does that exclude O-Line? Just saying. Bryant McKinnie apparently was good enough for the Ravens front office, signed by Ravens!
Nice Article
Appreciate your opinion and feel you explained things very well, nice.
Baby steps are for babies. Step it up buffalo!
Nix
As you stated:
You don’t stick around this business for decades, plural, without being competent.
But I would ask the question in that times how much time has he spent as THE GM? and furthermore, why has he never and those decades ever had the opportunity?
All of Buddy’s previous “moves” are purely speculation as he was NEVER the man calling the shots, those were someone elses personnel decisions (AJ Smith for a lot of that).
Nix’s GM legacy will be built on what he does (or doesn’t do in Buffalo) and short term results are not favorable. Obviously I agree with you he is not “stupid”, but competent to be an NFL GM is a completely different discussion.
"...You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win, and I don't care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When you start tellin' me it doesn't matter, then retire. Get out! 'Cause it matters." ~ Herm Edwards
"Talk's cheap. We all know that. It's like I've always said: 'Don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby.' " ~ Buddy Nix
by Jason from OH-IO on Aug 23, 2011 3:42 PM EDT reply actions
He isn't
Nix isn’t doing Gailey any favors by giving him a line bereft of tackle talent. Just a note, I don’t see San Diego with any Super Bowls, so perhaps, Nix has his head up his perverbial………
Just a note, I don’t see San Diego with any Super Bowls, so perhaps, Nix has his head up his perverbial………
That’s a big jump in logic.
Check out buddynixon.com for more of my work.
perverbial
This spelling+That context= ROFL.
Thank you for the laugh. :p
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
well, from the expressions on chan's face
i think he is getting ready to kick old Budster in Los Huevos
for Offensive Line Negligence….methods be damned…
Lets not forget
That hopefully the O line should get a lot of help from Chandler, and martin as well, once the regular season kicks off.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Man things can change in just a few years
Few years ago we had the best LT in the league in Jason Peters. We took a chance on him and developed him into the star he became. Then he wanted a huge pay raise that Ralph wasn’t willing to give him so we traded him away and still have yet to find his replacement despite both regimes being very high on 7th round draft pick Demetrius Bell. Now Peters play certainly has dropped off a bit over the past couple years but still had we just given him his pay raise in a nice long term contract we wouldn’t have to be worrying about the revolving door at tackle. Clabo signed for $5 mil. a year to remain in ATL and many of us have speculated that the Bills offered Clabo just as much if not more.
Personally I’d rather we have paid Peters the 6 year 60 mil a year contract he signed with the Eagles and not worry about the position anymore rather than continuing to have to wonder about who may step up or what draft pick we will have to spend on one. It just hasn’t helped us get out of the ditch we just keep spinning the wheels stuck in place. That’s my own take at least.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
Ok about peters
We gave him an over market value contract before he had really earned one.
Then he wanted another one. And the Bills were willing to discuss it…………….once he quit holding out(If I remember correctly).
That to me is a guy who doesn’t want to be in Buffalo.
And if you don’t want to be here than peace out…..you woin’t be missed.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
won't*
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Correct
I share that same value and would have the same reply but sometimes it’s just frustrating. You can’t always get guys who love to be here, but you can pay them to stay here and keep your team moving forward rather than staying put. Had we let Peters walk and drafted a guy early to be a real replacement (say Oher over Maybin perhaps?) then I wouldn’t even be bringing this up. The problem is we let the guy go and have not drafted a tackle earlier than round 4 Chris Hairston?! That’s the real problem I have. If you don’t want to pay the guy that’s fine but find a real replacement don’t just keep feeding me the Bell will be great just needs time to develop routine.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
I get what your saying
It’s just I still get mad about the whole Peters thing.
And I’m willing to give the line some time to gel.
I’m actually more worried about most of our CB"s than I am the O line.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
FYI Nix was with team when Maybin was drafted
Just saying, he was one of our talent scouts…but id be surprised if he would travel way up to pennsylvania to scout a player…
Who has a warm and fuzzy
One game left in preseason and we are still tinkering with the O-Line. I feel sorry for Gailey, not getting much help from tricky Nix.
There are still two pre-season games left to be played.
Year two is upon us.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Aug 24, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
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