Bills Training Camp: Brad Smith Creates Skill Depth Competition
by Brian Galliford on Aug 3, 2011 11:28 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Training Camp
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PrintWhen the Buffalo Bills inked quarterback, receiver and return specialist Brad Smith to a four-year, $15 million deal last week, we immediately began wondering which positional group this would take a number away from. Would the Bills need to cut one of its many talented young receivers to make room for Smith? What about a running back or a tight end? Or would a quarterback be on the outs?
Let's take a quick look at the back end of the depth chart at each position, and we'll let y'all cast your vote as to which player is the most likely to feel the greatest impact from the Smith signing. You'll find the poll after the jump.
QB: Smith is listed as a quarterback for the Bills, and when Tyler Thigpen returns to practice tomorrow, it'll push Levi Brown down the depth chart, and possibly allow Josh Nesbitt to switch positions. Brown, a seventh-round pick in 2010 out of Troy, was released prior to his rookie season, but brought back after the release of Trent Edwards.
WR: Smith's "other" position has five locks atop the depth chart. Other young, talented players, such as Naaman Roosevelt and Marcus Easley, will be vying for a sixth (and perhaps seventh) roster spot - unless Smith's presence causes Chan Gailey to view five receivers as sufficient depth. That's how they started the 2010 season, after all.
RB/TE: Though Smith's arrival shouldn't have much of an effect on these positions directly, if the Bills still see better depth at other positions, such as receiver, guys like Shawn Nelson could feel the pinch.
The poll is below. Which Bill is the most likely to be released with Smith now on the roster?
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Id rather see David Martin feel the pinch than Shawn Nelson
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why? We have a bunch of other receivers, better than Nelson. But we don’t have a bunch of blocking TEs better than Martin. To me Nelson is a luxury considering he’s contributed so much less than depth receivers on this roster.
by greysquirrel on Aug 3, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
We have Scott Chandler
who is like Martin and Shawn Nelson has too much potential to give up on. As the Patriots demonstrated – with many teams now following suit – having an athletic, quick, pass catching tight end in a spread offense can be a great way to mix things up and keep defenses on their toes. If we are going to use Brad Smith types, we should hang on to Nelson to see if Chan might figure out a way to use him too.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
I guess I’d rather have D. Nelson on the field than Shawn considering neither can block. I don’t see the need to force ourselves to have a guy we call TE if he is just gonna catch passes. Shawn’s potential has been two years coming without any improvement. Sure, some of that isn’t his fault (migraines) but some of it is (suspension). My clock on Shawn is close to expiring.
by greysquirrel on Aug 3, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
“I guess I’d rather have D. Nelson on the field than Shawn considering neither can block.”
Can you back up either statement with plays that demonstrate this? I have heard people criticize Shawn Nelson’s ability to block but not David’s ability to.
I have to prove D. Nelson isn’t a TE?
He might block fine for a WR, but neither of those players can really be asked to block like a TE. If that requires film study we might have to shut down the boards while everyone installs a home-based editing bay so we can upload ‘evidence’ to youtube. Sheesh.
by greysquirrel on Aug 3, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
“I guess I’d rather have D. Nelson on the field than Shawn considering neither can block.”
“I have to prove D. Nelson isn’t a TE?
He might block fine for a WR, but neither of those players can really be asked to block like a TE."
Do you see the difference between your two statements?
Hahaha
I was really starting to wonder…
by greysquirrel on Aug 3, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted Levi Brown.
He should never see the field and if both Fitz and Thigpen go down in a game, Id rather see Smith at QB anyways.
Brown can be on the PS if they want, or bring him back if Fitz or Thigpen were to go down for the year.
But no need to cut talent at WR/RB/TE over Brown.
Now attending the Univ. of Hockey.
by bflo on Aug 3, 2011 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Ditto
But I remember being kinda impressed by him in the last game @ Jets (Until the interception…) so in a perfect world, I’d like him to stick around just out of curiosity.
"Aw snap, aw snap, come to my macaroni party and we'll take a nap!"
He was 2/3 with one pick
Seriously? And didn’t the Jets have everyone benched at that time since they clinched?
Yeah I know...
But he threw it with such a zip! Im just curious is all…
"Aw snap, aw snap, come to my macaroni party and we'll take a nap!"
No comment on that.
You have me at a loss for words.
I think it is a general consensus that we are drafting a QB next year, so keeping Levi around to groom him won’t make much sense once that is the case. Let him try to pick up somewhere else. Keeping him doesn’t make sense and it isn’t fair to him.
by Falls4Life on Aug 3, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know what your talking about. The ball had lots of zip and he looked very confident.
by Xaviermw on Aug 3, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In his defense it was as miscommunication with stevie. Stevie read the coverage and made a route adjustment. Levi a rookie with almost no experience never saw the route diffrence because they where similar routes to a point.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Aug 3, 2011 12:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not debating the reason for the INT.
Just trying to find out how anyone can be “impressed” by anything that he did during that game. So impressed…that we should keep him on the roster when we now have twice as many capable QBs as we had last year.
this seems to be the most logical choice. Of all the candidates in the poll, Levi Brown has virtually zero chance of contributing in any way to the success of this football team.
by The Adam Bomb on Aug 3, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Same
I think Brown is odd man out, because they can game plan one way with Fitz, Thigpen, and Smith as potential QBs each week. Brown’s skill set seems different to begin with, plus he’s not been getting good reviews in camp thus far… plus, if Fitz/Thigpen go down for the year, I see a FA acquisition, not Brown, being given the keys to the jeep.
by JjR in TO on Aug 3, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed...rec'd
QB SMASHER KING KONG JASPER
Dareus will put you on you Dar-e-ass
If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
Other
With the lack of TE production and to be honest the use of them, I see us carrying 2 TE, Chandler and Nelson.
"Sit down and watch my Buffalo Bills destroy your Kingdome" - Abayarde
If we only carry two
There is NO WAY one of them is Nelson.
by greysquirrel on Aug 3, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He cant block
We won’t go into the season with one TE that can block.
by greysquirrel on Aug 3, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
It’s not like the other two are mowing guys over either, and just because they’re big and can’t catch worth a lick, doesn’t make them blocking TE’s. I have to be convinced that these guys are true blockers.
Also, if all they are doing are just blocking than why even bother with a TE, just put an extra tackle out there.
And why have two TE’s who basically just block, it will make sense to have a different type TE at that position.
The other two are much better blockers. As evidence by who got on the field more last year. They don’t have to be elite, to be better at it than Shawn.
Well… presumably they get out on LBs better than a 300 lbs tackle would. They also can catch a little if need be (Martin TD?). But even sure we could put RTs in there. It still leads me to think Shawn is expendable.
Why have two that can block? Because in two TE sets we are probably running the ball. Because if one gets hurt we have no one that can block. And because we already have something like SEVEN wide-receivers. So I’d much rather keep two TEs for blocking purposes and not add the equivalent of another player at our deepest position group (WR).
hes not the equivalent though
a guy like Shawn Nelson can cause mismatches with his blend of size over DBs and speed over LBs. Plus Shawn can learn to block just fine. Its not like David Martin is some spectacular blocker. When we have 2 TE sets it would give us a lot of flexibility to have the threat of passing to a tight end
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn’t decide whether to put my comment here or down below.
I voted Levi Brown will get cut specifically because of Brad Smith’s influence on the roster.
I think it’s very possible S. Nelson could get cut, but that Smith’s presence is not the influencing factor in that. If Nelson just cannot stay healthy (including the migraines), he may be cut for that. Otherwise, he has a strong chance to stay on the team because of his potential and what he did contribute when he was able to play. But Smith’s presence will not influence whether S. Nelson gets cut or not, IMO.
Perception is reality; but if your perception is off, you live in your own reality. -- perkispower
I agree fourwinds, if someone loses their job its Levi. I just find it hard to believe that if we keep two TES, Nelson is one of them.
Right. I just find it hard to believe they would only keep two TEs. I know this offense doesn’t seem to be designed around TEs, but they still need/use TEs to block sometimes, and only having two on the roster seems incredibly thin at first glance.
Perception is reality; but if your perception is off, you live in your own reality. -- perkispower
For all the reasons you’ve stated I like the IDEA of a Shawn Nelson-type player.
But I’ve grown pretty disillusioned with Shawn since his first game. He has really shown an inability to get on the field and contribute. He should be a better blocker, but last year he wasn’t better enough to keep us from cycling all sorts of junk in ahead of him. That’s harsh on the junk, but you know what I mean — we had waiver wire TEs starting without a lick of practice because we needed a blocker. Every year there seems to be a list of excuses, and this was a guy I thought would help almost immediately.
D. Nelson is not exactly the same. But for me he’s close enough that Nelson seems more expendable than a lot of other folks.
this is all true
but remember that Roscoe Parrish was useless to the prior regime before Chan came in and figured out how to use him. Shawn is still young and suffers from migraines. I think with time Chan will find a way to use him.
Of course, like you said, he has to start getting on the field.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Caussin
I know Brian had Tweeted about him being impressed by the kid, and he was pretty highly regarded when we signed him away from Jacksonville.
Caussin is a big guy that moves well, and to be honest David Martin was plugzilla last year for us, he doesn’t do anything well enough for us to keep a guy his age.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 3, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Daivid Martin is far past hs prime
and with guys like Chandler and Caussin we have no need for Martin.
martin blocked allright, i wouldn’t say he did an extremley good job or anything plus with Chandler he block release and catch the ball where Martin is to slow to be counted on for a role like that
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 3, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
To back up my argument some more. Martin had more TD receptions then both of them combined. And he played in more games then both of them combined.
http://www.nfl.com/player/davidmartin/2504590/profile
Hes been in the league for like 6 or 7 more years
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Aug 3, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
AP22
you always respond to peoples assessment of players by asking “how they came to that opinion” or what “evidence” they have to back it up. Most people on here watch every single Bills game. What evidence do you have that he blocked well other than you watched the games? We dont need to question the source of peoples opinions every time, most of it will come from watching every Sunday, every snap with extreme passion. Its something we all share. We’re going to have divergent opinions. None of this is a science.
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I ask because some of the things that people say are the exact opposite of my opinion and I want to know why they think they do. People have or should have a reason why they believe something. And other times I ask because it seems like someone has just heard something someone said and then they just run with it—like a giant rumor. I am basically taking everyone’s opinion with a grain of salt, especially the one’s that aren’t backed up with anything. Brian recently changed his mind about Roscoe after Whitner challenged him on some of his beliefs. Did you have a problem with that?
“I ask because some of the things that people say are the exact opposite of my opinion and I want to know why they think they do.”
Sorry that should read: “I ask because some of the things that people say are the exact opposite of my opinion and I want to know their rationale for what they believe.”
Sorry again
like garcia said
I appreciate all that completely but when you ask for evidence of someones blocking ability what can one point to but their perception of games and film?
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
If their opinion is based on what they saw during games and film, then they have a good reason for their opinion. But if they are just saying something because they heard someone else say it, then I don’t think that it is a very well formed opinion. The comment that David Martin didn’t do anything well last year surprised me because my perception, from the plays that I had seen, was that he did an okay to pretty good job blocking last year.
ok ok thats fair
just trying to figure out what you are looking for because I noticed you asking a lot
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
“We dont need to question the source of peoples opinions every time, most of it will come from watching every Sunday, every snap with extreme passion. Its something we all share. We’re going to have divergent opinions. None of this is a science.”
Yes it may come from watching every snap with extreme passion. But that extreme passion isn’t always conductive to rational and logical thinking. Trust me. I saw a few gameday threads from last years games. Very emotional and not very logical or rational. I get caught up in the very same thing but that doesn’t mean that we don’t need to slow down and think and have informed opinions.
gameday threads
are not meant to be analytical. They are a place for us to share our thoughts as the game is unfolding. Just like players are running on emotion and passion during the game what is said in gamethreads is supposed to be off-the-cuff and reactionary. To expect thoughtful and filtered analysis at the moment of a game changing play would defeat the point of having a gameday thread period right?
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You are still missing my point. This thread isn’t a gameday thread. We should have a reason why we believe something. Sometimes I want to know why a person has a different opinion, because it is so different from mine, and other times I suspect that they are just saying things because they are emotional or because they have heard someone else make the same argument or point. With regard to the second scenario I ask question to have them slow down and think about it. And if they have a valid point then they can make it. Even opinion pieces in newspapers and on the internet usually give a reasoning for their opinion.
no I understand that
maybe its just because Ive been commenting with some of these guys for a few years so I dont question where they get their opinions. I got you, was just wondering why you kept asking.
You’ll figure out soon enough my arguments are the best researched, most logical and perfectly logical on this site ; )
The bandwagon will be full and fast and drunk and exciting - Undee
by poz on Aug 3, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted Brown
because it has to be Brown. There’s no way barring injury he makes this team.
by As Smart as I Look on Aug 3, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
Naaman Roosevelt. I don’t care where the Bills actually list Brad Smith, he’s going to play WR. I can’t imagine the Bills actually keeping 8 WRs, regardless of how versatile many of them are. Roosevelt needs an injury or a surprise cut to Jones or Easley to make the team.
I don’t think Levi Brown makes the team either, but that has more to do with him not being any good than it does roster competition.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
by kaisertown on Aug 3, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I go the other way with this – I say Levi is directly left off because Smith would be the 3rd QB, but I think Naaman is cut too, because of the numbers game. Remember, Smith can be listed as the 3rd QB and still come in and out however Chan chooses to use him. But I don’t see them keeping 3 QBs plus Smith – that makes no sense at all, when you’re basically getting a free roster spot for him. Writing’s on the wall for Levi, and we haven’t even gotten to the preseason..
by BuffaloRepresent on Aug 3, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Smith is the 3rd QB on gameday, but if Fitz or Thigpen get hurt during the season, I’d be very surprised if Buffalo didn’t add a QB to backup. Smith is only a QB to manipulate the system, I don’t think he should be considered as anything other than a WR and returner. He should have no bearing on how many QBs the team decides to keep. Levi will make the team or be cut based solely on his own performance and the performance of other fringe roster guys.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
I'm with ya on this
I think neither Roosevelt nor Brown makes the final roster. Smith’s signing potentially fills 2 positions, allowing the team to keep an extra at another position, such as LB or DB, which we seem to go through like candy every season. I say both are gone.
Other
I voted other…
Levi Brown can be moved to practice squad again.
I believe in the new CBA the 3rd string QB can enter and leave the game at will.
(previous CBA required the 3rd stringer to stay in regardless and the 1st string guy cannot). so the Bills list him as 3rd QB but put him on the field wherever and whenever they like?
by wagerbombs on Aug 3, 2011 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Am I wrong here? I don’t ever remember Levi Brown being on the PS.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
i know he was let go initially, but i thought we brought him back to practice squad when edwards went bye bye
Right… I remember he ran the scout team but it was as the 3rd qb on the 53 man roster not the practice squad. I’m just about 100% certain he was never on the practice squad. This article from Brain last year points to that fact.
This is a long drawn out conversation about whether or not a guy was on the PS but I thought I was losing my mind for a second and wanted to be sure. Guess that’s what I get for being overly interested in EVERY detail of this team.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
It' Brown...
He’ll be back on the practice squad I believe. He was in charge of running PS workouts last year. I firmly think OBD would like to keep em in that role after a yr under his belt. He has some knowledge of the offense to keep the PS players up date and in tune. Hey it’s job!
He wasnt on the PS last year from what I recall.
He was pretty upset about not even being asked to join the PS and then we signed him week 3 after letting Capt Checkdown go.
Now attending the Univ. of Hockey.
Nelson
The Bills had a chance to go after Miller, Heap or a possible trade for Olsen and didn’t. I think they are giving Nelson one last opportunity to prove himself. Has anyone seen Nelson do anything on the field? I know he has had injury problems and migraines which has held him back. I feel he is on his last hurrah as a Bill and the Bills will release him due to his lack of progress.
Money can't buy you happiness. But it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.
- Spike Milligan
is Shawn Nelson
the one that had the diving TD vs the Patriots in the opener last year? Whoever it was, looked like a very exciting player.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison
by HurricaneJay on Aug 3, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
Thats what we have seen him do on the field, albeit 2 years ago
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison
by HurricaneJay on Aug 3, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s literally made one play in two years… That is James Hardy-esque. Its precisely what bugs me about his potential…. its flat-lined.
I also don’t think he’s going to grow or show much more improvement. But I voted Levi because he’s already been cut once and we have a bunch of QBs on the 90 man roster now. I think Gailey and Nix will give Nelson one more shot to show something.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
2--years ago
Is a career ago in the NFL…
That is James Hardy-esque.
Now that’s a perfect comparison, plus Nelson was a pick of the old regime…
Money can't buy you happiness. But it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.
- Spike Milligan
Speaking of him, has anyone heard about how he’s doing with the Ravens?
by NordicBillsfan on Aug 3, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
They tweeted the other day
That he had multiple drops during practice.
Now attending the Univ. of Hockey.
not sure
how ya’ll got the impression that I was advocating for him either way…just wondering if he was the guy that looked electric 2 years ago.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison
Better question...
Why would they keep Levi? If someone gets hurt you can sign someone off a practice squad. He’s a third stringer and shouldn’t be the backup. No reason to keep him, put him on the practice squad and can activate him if need be.
http://buffalopp.com
by buffalosportsfan on Aug 3, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions
Too soon
I think we all are jumping the gun a little too soon. We have a whole pre season to go through before we have to make the cuts.
We really have to see how these players perform and who has gotten better or worse. I thought as a fanbase we were a little more patient and understanding when it comes to evaluating players. Especially since we seen a good number of UDFA make the team and become productive players. You also have season ending injuries and veteran cuts…be patient
Looks whats goin on in Denver, Tebow is performing worst than Brady Quinn, so you never know how players are going to perform.
S. Nelson can go for all I care
But I agree, it’s gotta be Levi. Stash him on the PS. Fitz is tough as nails anyway, we don’t need Brown wasting a roster spot. Hell, the kid didn’t even make the team last year out of camp when our QB depth and talent was even worse than it is now.
I’m just wondering why anyone thinks S. Nelson will be cut because of Brad Smith’s presence.
There are many possible reasons Nelson could get cut, but I can’t figure out how any of that has to do with Brad Smith.
Perception is reality; but if your perception is off, you live in your own reality. -- perkispower
I think the prevalent idea is that Gailey has lots of guys that can catch, so he doesn’t need a catching TE. Smith adds someone who can catch. He would rather have blocking TEs, so Nelson is the odd man out (not that any of them are particularly good at blocking).
I don’t necessarily agree, but it’s what I think people are thinking.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Ok. I get the reasoning. Don’t agree with it (as you said you may not either), because I still think Gailey would love to have S. Nelson in there as a potential pass-catching threat if he could also block well and stay healthy. I think if he is able to stay healthy at all, he will be able to pick up enough blocking to stay on the team and contribute.
On the other hand, Levi seems to be playing himself right off the team.
Perception is reality; but if your perception is off, you live in your own reality. -- perkispower
I too voted Levi Brown
But I don’t understand the sentiment that it is a done deal. Yes we have Brad Smith, but that does not mean that it is automatically illegal to keep 3 pure qbs. It a small chance now, but if Levi plays fantastic in the preseason games, it would be hard to see us letting him go. Anyway, he probably would still have a chance to be on the practice squad, so that why I could see him getting cut.
by Xaviermw on Aug 3, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I can see what you are saying. But they might feel comfortable enough with Thigpen at back and Smith as the third that they cut Brown and sign him to the practice squad again. If I remember correctly, Fred Jackson was on our practice squad at one point.
Is he eligible?
I never know the rules around eligibility.
Some annoying team is gonna sign him of the p-squad the week before we play them.
I think that you have to play a certain number of games in a season to no longer be eligible. Chris Brown answered that question not too long ago. I will try to get a link.
http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/06/24/fan-friday-6-24/
“5 – Chris,
Can you explain the eligibility rules for the practice squad? Is there a number of games a player can dress and be on the active roster then to be switched to the squad? How many players are allowed on the squad? Could players like Howard, Roosevelt, Donald Jones, Ed Wang land on the squad since they maybe behind the pecking order at OG and WR?
CB: Players can typically spend two seasons on a practice squad. There are stipulations that allow for a third year, but I’m not going to get into those here. Once a player has dressed for nine NFL games he is no longer eligible for the practice squad. So for example, when Jim Leonhard in his first season with the Bills appeared in nine games, he was no longer eligible for the practice squad.
Practice squad sizes can hold a maximum of eight players.
Howard appeared in 10 games as a rookie last year and Jones in 15. Both would no longer be eligible for the practice squad to my knowledge. Wang and Roosevelt who each appeared in six games are still practice squad eligible."
The rules might have changed with the new CBA. I just thought about that as I was about to post this but this is what it was.
by AP22 on Aug 3, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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