oldtimer takes it on the chan
by simonpure on Jan 1, 2012 10:21 PM EST
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what a season, i am exhausted from trying to make sense of the bills fall from the heights of hype and hope and fourth quarter miracles and defensive opportunism to the depths of incompetence on steroids...
it was a season with hope, or so it seemed after 7 games in. then the wheels began to come off. it was not clear at first how bad the bills coaching was, because there were so many injuries stacked on top of the cascade of losses that it left many a fan head spinning. speaking of spiller, how about that draft bust not. as for chan taking it, well he lost it somewhere between dallas and miami, and never really got it back, though i must admit i was 2 and 0 at the ralph, having witnessed the raiders and bronco games, and having a blast of a good time at both.
i believe chan knows offense, but i am becoming deeply troubled by his flight from the running game. i just finished reading brady quotes post slaughter at the new england house, and tommy reminded his listeners that offense is about balance, and you have to maintain some balance, and well, did you know the bills abandoned balance a long time ago, and today got super wacky weird in that department.
since chan got strange and perhaps lost some of his marbles on the way to seven losses in a row, he also seemed to demonstrate why delegation of authority is really important to a football team. of course there are some who pull it off but neither hoodie in new england nor the great marv levy ran either of their sides of the ball when they were at their best as head coaches.
chan needs to pass the play calling off to someone else, and he needs to have buddy put it in his contract that he cannot pass the ball more than 60 percent of the time in a game, no matter what.
joking aside, or whatever that was, i do believe the bills showed signs of life, hope etc. they can play with the big boys if they become a balanced offense and keep drafting defense.
as for the stevie problem that came to a head or conclusion today, he says the players had his back and told him he should have been in the lineup. florence said as much as well, saying it had an effect. not good, calling into question the decision of the head coach, but clearly needs to be viewed as a troubling in house sign.
fine the guy big money, but keep playing him.
when it comes to the fitz, i feel sorry for the guy, despite his millions. he got stuck with a pass happy coach and no receivers to throw to midway through the season, and a defense that held 3 teams below 20 points and most teams barely below 40 points. yes, he is showing early career eli manning tendencies, which is why the coach needs to run the ball more and the defense needs to make him a winner like joe flacco, who had the bulk of his offense coming from ray rice, what a concept, a runner delivering the bulk of the offense.
final thoughts for the new year brainstorm or cramp, actually....
if stevie leaves, it will be a huge loss for this team.
if the bills keep edwards, it will be a huge loss for this team.
if chan does not revisit his offensive philosophy this offseason, i will be his worst critic come next fall.
fitz threw 569 passes this season, an average of 35 plus per game, had 24 tds and 23 picks, eli manning type early career numbers. fitz is better than last year, but asked to do too much too soon with an average receiving cast even with stevie in the lineup.
30 passes per game is 480, about where i think fitz is most effective is below 30. today fitz threw 46 despite the fact we had a 21 to 0 lead after 1 period, and we could have done ball control and kept brady off the field. at my bar the fans were starting to yell run the damn ball when we were up 21 to 17 and 21 to 20 and down 28 to 21 and then, well, we were done.
chan needs to mature as a play caller fast. he has had enough experience in the nfl to know better. fitz is fine, but he is not throwing to an elite cast of receivers and he does not have a defense that can recover from ints.
buddy nix better have a few tricks up his sleave or the fan base is gonna get real angry next season and the ralph will struggle to match the sad denver turnout of 45k and change.
the bills offense improved this season despite tons of injuries, the bills defense did not, despite tons of new players. next yr the defense will be better, and if the offense becomes more ball controlled oriented, the bills will finish 9 and 7 or better, a worthy goal and accomplishment, given their decade plus long futility.
i do think it will be the patriots and the packers in the super bowl, but not with enough conviction to bet on it.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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totally agree
while I do think we need to add another good WR for Fitz to throw to, it has gotten extremely frustrating that when we run we get 4+yards per carry, but we just don’t. When your up by 3 possessions you have to start some kind of ball control, especially when they shut your 4th drive down and then get it to 21-7. I think next year we should run with Freddy and CJ at least 30 times and pass 30 times or less. Fitz is effective, but not good enough to throw 40+ times a game.
Also I saw we started the game with a pro set then switched to the spread, which worked well, but then we never saw the pro set again. I hope Chan incorporates running from the I formation more next year.
You are now Watching The Throne.
This is what I was talking about on the front page post about Stevie
the players had his back and told him he should have been in the lineup. florence said as much as well, saying it had an effect. not good, calling into question the decision of the head coach
Chan over reacted, hurt the team, caused players to lose respect and confidence in him.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
although sometimes I think that could be a good thing.
From Gailey’s comments it seemed like he didn’t want to take Stevie out, but it seemed to me more of principle thing, and personally I respect a person who does what they say they are going to do. So if Drayton Florence ,who can’t do his own job, doesn’t like it so be it.
But I would hope the younger players won’t follow Drayton’s lead, and I do see where this could be problem. but I think you have to do what you say.
Also
He didn’t get a penalty for the Why So serious thing, but this time he did, which made no sense. and I think Chan commented on this. So I think it was unfortunate for both sides.
You are now Watching The Throne.
I don't think you can be that rigid
I watched the video on BB.com too. Chan was mad, so he took it out on Stevie and used his former statement to justify it dropping the hammer. Trouble is Chan wasn’t just mad at Stevie, he was mad at the officials for flagging Stevie this time and not in Cincy…“which is it”, Chan said. Chan messed up because he let his emotion get the best of him and didn’t consider how this situation was different from the situation he had in mind when he made the rule. That statement was made after Stevie’s “Plax imitation” in the Jets game and was meant to be applied to similar situations. If Stevie wouldn’t have gotten the flag, I don’t think Chan would have benched him. Why make Stevie and the rest of the players pay for inconsistent officiating? Chan could have benched Stevie for half the game and explained this to them after the game. The players are smart….they would have understood why he amended his rule, and they would have respected him more for applying some common sense to the situation. Now we have an issue that may or may not affect our ability to resign Stevie. You tell me what would have been the best course of action for this team going forward?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
yea. I agree with you the whole game benching was excessive
and ultimately hurt the team. The offense clearly missed Stevie. I think you are right benched until halftime would have gotten the point across. Although I also see where Chan is coming from and sticking to his word no matter the situation or player. But as you said half time would have been fine.
You are now Watching The Throne.
Inconsistent officiating isnt the problem - its an excuse for a ridiculous act- choosing to go out and flirt with the rules after being warned repeatedly, fined repeatedly and penalized repeatedly. Many things are called inconsistently, that doesn’t mean you can do them. Chan doesn’t seem irrational in this video, he seems annoyed — as he should be — Stevie chose to act like a fool (again) and got burnt (again).
Benching Stevie is the best course of action. I’ve never been so mad at a Bills player for anything that happened after the whistle. It’s entirely unacceptable and apparently he can’t be explained things like a man, so Chan treated him like a child. Hopefulyl he’s here next year and this lesson sticks. But I have no interest in trying to make excuses to figure out why Stevie (out of all the receivers in the league) seems incapable of following directions or rules.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So you have never gotten
its an excuse for a ridiculous act- choosing to go out and flirt with the rules after being warned repeatedly, fined repeatedly and penalized repeatedly.
more than one speed or parking ticket ????
Chan doesn’t seem irrational in this video, he seems annoyed
I never said he was irrational in the video. And yes he should be annoyed…at himself.
He was having a little fun…..seriously what is the big Fing deal? He wasn’t in someones face, he didn’t simulate an act of violence, and he didn’t think he would get a penalty because he didn’t get one in Cincy. This is turning into a witch hunt……go ahead and run the kid out of town….grab your torch and pitch forks
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I’m not sure what my driving record has to do with Stevie being told not to get these penalties by his coach. He was given an ultimatum and went ahead anyway. If you’ve gotten enough speeding tickets, you stop speeding for fear of losing your license. That’s the analogy. He’s on probation and speeding and its not an emergency or anything, its just fuuuuunnn.
I dont have a problem with Stevie having fun, I’m not saying don’t sign him because of this, if those comments are out there I haven’t really seen them on these boards. But even if those opinions are out there. They don’t require generating an argument that Chan is in the wrong. I am capable of blaming Stevie, agreeing with Chan, and hoping everyone comes back. Maybe this time though, Stevie will finally figure out the rules.
he didn’t think he would get a penalty because he didn’t get one in Cincy.
I understand thats his logic, but its simply an excuse. He’s a grown man and responsible for figuring this crap out. HE absolutely didn’t think — and thats the problem. Plenty of penalties are inconsistent because they aren’t seen or they are subjective, but this isn’t a spontaneous hold. It’s a premeditated celebration that you would think anyone on probation would think about avoiding. Maybe its only called half the time, but its still a terrible idea.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
really????
The point was you said
its an excuse for a ridiculous act- choosing to go out and flirt with the rules
If the speed limit is 55, do you drive 55? or maybe 60…61…62? I push it on the highway when the weather is good, but not when it is bad……and I don’t speed through school zones. Getting caught doing 67 doesn’t make me do 55, it makes me do 62.
He’s a grown man and responsible for figuring this crap out.
How can you figure this out. Even Chan was mad about this…quote “Which is it?”. Stevie did think. He looked at past experiences…Cincy OK….Jets not OK…..and tried to come up with something that was entertaining but wouldn’t drawn a 15 yd penality. I happen to agree with his logic. And for the record, I hate this stuff. I am a hand the ball to the official kind of guy. But, that doesn’t mean I don’t think Stevie got screwed in this case.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
If you’ve gotten enough speeding tickets, you stop speeding for fear of losing your license. That’s the analogy.
Plenty of penalties are inconsistent because they aren’t seen or they are subjective, but this isn’t a spontaneous hold. It’s a premeditated celebration that you would think anyone on probation would think about avoiding. Maybe its only called half the time, but its still a terrible idea.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
and???????
what is your point? I made an analogy from a different perspective. I answered your questions but you refuse to discuss my counter points. Reposting what you already said without more explaination does very little to further the debate.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I believe my counterpoints were adequately stated above. Ergo, no need to use new content. :-)
I think the analogy is bad and I think Stevie should know that flirting with these rules has cost him in the past and could cost him again. Doesn’t take a brain surgeon to avoid these situations, just some common sense. Don’t make it sound more complicated than it is. Sure, it can be arbitrary, but there is an easy way to not get the penalty.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No...they were not
I believe my counterpoints were adequately stated above.
I said that I drive 62 in a 55 because I have learned that most cops don’t pull you over for it. Stevie used the same logic from his past experiences. The officials screwed him…..and Chan for that matter.
It’s a premeditated celebration…
I agree it was premeditated…in fact, that is my main argument as to why Stevie shouldn’t have been benched for the whole game. Stevie thought he knew what would draw a flag and what wouldn’t. This rule is the biggest joke in the NFL…..like all the dancing in the endzone and the Lambeau Leaps are not planned…..get freaking real.
there is an easy way to not get the penalty
Yeah, and there is an better way to react if you are the coach.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I would hope the younger players won’t follow Drayton’s lead,
I second that. This is the second time Drayton Florence is publicly calling out with the coaches. I’m all for his right to express his opinion; I’m also all for his employers responsibility to look for an upgrade.
by JapanJohn on Jan 2, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is the second time Drayton Florence is publicly calling out with the coaches. I’m all for his right to express his opinion; I’m also all for his employers responsibility to look for an upgrade.
100 percent agree’d. Rec’d
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Chan over reacted, hurt the team, caused players to lose respect and confidence in him.
It’s ironic that you have a John Wooden quote as your sig. He is the UCLA basketball HOF coach quoted by Mark Kelso on the radio broadcast for justifying why Stevie would be benched.
Your second sig quotes Sun-Tzu. Do you think those ancient warrior generals would allow a foot soldier’s silly antics to undermine their authority. Stevie, in those times, would have been lucky to make it back to the hotel.
by JapanJohn on Jan 2, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i think the character being questioned is that of chan not stevie
and this is what has come out of the mouths of other players, the appropriateness of the punishment in the context of official inconsistency. chan could have easily said, sit the next series and recognize that though what u did was wrong, it was not a ´punishable violation according to the rules.
a coach must stay calm under fire, and chan did not.
his play calling also shows a lack of strategic sophistication, esp with stevie out, though
chan has lost this team awhile ago, as evident by seven straight losses, many of the blow out variety, another real bad sign.
What would Sun Tzu say????
The expert in battle seeks his victory from strategic advantage and does not demand it from his men.
or how about
A leader leads by example not by force.
but this is the most fitting
If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders are clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.
had enough yet :-P
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Ha, you’re telling me Chan’s orders weren’t clear and distinct?
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
why did you choose to stop there?????
Could it be because that is where your argument begins to fall apart?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
caused players to lose respect and confidence in him.
No player has said that. Not Florence, not Stevie, not anyone.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
Stevie said the players had his back and thought he should be out there, right?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
yep......which was the right thing to say...doesn't make what I said any less true.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Well then we can agree listening to what they say doesnt tell us anything?
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL....that sounds about right :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Acccchhhh!
Stevie – 6.5 / 7.25 keep him and I do think he learned his lesson. Or hes far dumber then I thought. He deserved to get benched. Dumb a—!
Miss Ryan L. get well.
Fred – keep your word Ralph, hook him up with a nice 3 year deal.
I am almost expecting the Bills to let stevie go and screw over Fred.
Coaching – yep need 2 new Co-ordinators. Go 4-3 and use this stupid 5 receiver set infrequently.
That whole B. Smith gadget might be pretty if they could toss a pass out of it once in awhile. I recall 1 attempt – man wide open and he tossed a INT.
Run – Run -run….Freddie and CJ.
Sadness-I love everything about Fitz, except he can’t throw deep for squat. Throws em in the dirt, leads his fella to far and high to often, But for now I can’t think of a better guy to have to train a new kid and play backup. Willing to pay him to teach and play second fiddle eventually. Thigpen aint got it.
Draft – OLB, DE, WR, CB. – or RG3 if avail.
Cudo’s – Stevie 2 consecutive 1k yrs. CJ for getting there, Fred for being Fred, Rookies who did ok. Fans who have not committed SEPPUKU yet. Ex Bills who did ok elsewhere (and yea that includes Maybin) just because I think we are so friggin cheap and stupid. Most especially the O-Line that played far beyond my initial expectations ( unsung heroes on the team for sure ).
Probably impractical but I’d love to see an ol school 4-3, and ol fashioned offense with 1 TE 2 WR and Fred with CJ together instead of a fullback. CJ in motion, slot, leaving Fred in back – hell we need 1 quality deep threat WR and were there.
Dreaming of next April and next season. Been there Done that again, and again, and again……….sigh :(
I voted depressed about defense
although i did wonder why we couldn’t get 8 more carry’s per game. Too mad at the secondary to get mad at the offense.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 5:07 PM EST reply actions
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