Poll: Fred Jackson Or Stevie Johnson First?
I talk to a lot of people about the Buffalo Bills. Lately, much of the rhetoric has centered around the pending free agent status of wide receiver Stevie Johnson. That's not surprising. What is surprising: the number of times that, in hashing out that very topic, I hear some version of the following argument: "Fred Jackson should get a deal first."
Back during the regular season, after the team's Week 2 win over Oakland, we asked you this very question in a poll that also included Ryan Fitzpatrick. The vote yielded a remarkably even split between the three players, and especially between Johnson and Jackson, as the receiver picked up just 45 more votes than the runner.
That, however, was during the season - when contracts are more frequently handed out to players locked up beyond the looming free agent period. Now, free agency is just weeks away, Johnson isn't under contract, Jackson is, and I'm a bit baffled that people are still arguing that Jackson should get a deal before Johnson.
Hence this poll. Am I just talking with the vocal minority, or is this a legitimately wide-spread belief within the fan base? (And no, in the end, this doesn't really matter; this is more to satiate my curiosity.)
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Voted Stevie
Every day that goes by that Stevie hasn’t been signed makes me nervous.
Freddy is still under contract, and sure, it would be nice to see him get paid. Locking up our UFA’s is the #1 priority.
Is this your homework, Larry?
This, except I’m not as nervous… but UFA’s are the priority, and if we lose Stevie, I think we need to find 2 WR’s. if Freddie doesn’t get an extension, he’s still under contract and can be re-negotiated all through FA, after the draft, even into the summer… plus Spiller showed a lot at the end of the season.
What are the chances of finding not one, but two starting WR’s? Who is going to step in and put up 1,000 yards right away? We have so many holes on the team. We can’t ever expect playoffs, or a championship if we keep letting our best players walk.
Is this your homework, Larry?
by Schooled You on Jan 12, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Business sense
Says Stevie before free agency begins, Freddie before training camp begins.
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
by fansince83 on Jan 12, 2012 11:09 AM EST via mobile reply actions 6 recs
well said....rec'd
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Me too. Rec’d.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Jan 12, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Me 3
or five as this particular case shows.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 12, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
myself as well
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Just from a time-table perspective
We should be signing Stevie first. He’s younger, and his contract is up. We have a year to get a deal worked out with Freddie. I agree with you, Brian, I think it’s baffling to prioritize Freddie over Johnson.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
yup
we have time to talk with Jackson. Don’t let Stevie hit FA is priority number 1. Then you go on and reward Jackson for what hes done.
Now that the general tide has shifted from CJ Spiller is a bust and terrible to CJ Spiller is a great RB I think people are over-reacting only this time in the opposite direction.
CJ Spiller looked fantastic make no mistake but Fred Jackson when he was healthy was playing like the best Bills running back since Thurman Thomas. He was arguably the best back in football. When he returns he needs to be starting if this team is serious about competing. CJ needs more carries of course and thats all for the benefit of Jackson’s longevity.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
I don’t really feel like the sentiment has completely swung the other way to “CJ is a great RB” — people are excited about what he showed at the end of the season. Plus, let’s be honest, even though Fred was amazing this season, there’s no guarantee he comes back post-injury, at 31, and tears it up again. I think we need to be just as careful about too-high expectations for Freddie’s return.
thats a fair point
he is coming back from an injury at an older age and you are right there should be cautious optimism on my part that he can return to form. I accept that, good point.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
However, his injury shouldn’t deem him less deserving of a back-pay raise.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 12, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
No brainer - STEVIE
Why? Because if we don’t resign Stevie – he’s gone….
We can always resign Jackson during training camp or worst case scenario, during the season.
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 12, 2012 11:21 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Stevie – obviously.
Then we should look to trade Jackson – even package him to move up to say the Rams spot (if their sold on Bradford) and grab a QB.
Spiller did pretty well in relief of Jackson and while he is awesome I think we could use him to grab our QB of the future. I know it won’t happen – but it should or it should be looked into.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 12, 2012 11:23 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I was thinking the same thing
It sounds sacrileg but maybe we should trade Jackson while we have him under contract and his stock is sky high… I’d rather get a Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald type receiver on our team (in addition to Stevie) than have 2 really good RBs, or the QB idea if we could get RG3. Of course it won’t happen though.
would love to trade freddy away from some picks
Any idea what we might get?
The Buffalo Billy Goats .. and the Ice Goats
by BillyGoats_DC on Jan 12, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Going for a new Jackson Five?
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 12, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
welcome to my trade Jackson bandwagon
I think it is more likely we sign Hillis than Jackson
The Bills need a third down back. Corey Mac is getting old and isn’t used much anyway. Spiller and Jackson’s skills sets are too similar. Sure Jackson runs with more power than Spiller, but that isn’t saying much. Hillis is much more of a bruiser than Jackson and still has pass catching ability. As much as I love Jackson, the smart move would be to sign Hillis and use Jackson to trade up to grab a QB.
by Joe P. on Dec 29, 2011 7:13 PM CST up actions
I love Freddie, but I want a franchise QB and a power RB more.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
third down back
you’re forgetting the obvious “Choice” ;-/
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
I choose....not to run....Choice :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Hillis
Hillis has been an every down back for the last 2 years in CLE. He was hurt alot this year, but he’s gonna be looking for #1RB $$ and playing time. Plus he’s got fumblitis.
Here's hoping!
An inflammation of the fumble?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Jan 12, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do did AP....it can be fixed
Spiller and Hillis would be a great 1-2 punch. The money thing could be an issue, but it wouldn’t stop me from making an offer.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Wow got to proof read more....
So did Adrian Peterson. And Hillis would be the #1 RB….Spiller is going to be used very similarly to how he was used this year…..CHIX said Spiller can’t handle all the carries remember?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
lol
No near as much as should!
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 13, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
I
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 13, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
see
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 13, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Fred will be here next year
To show people, (much like the Kelsay signing was intended to do) that we pay and keep good/veteran players.
Stevie is a must sign. You cant trade Lee and then let the new #1 walk the next season. They have so many hills still to fill, you cannot bring in 2 WR’s that will essentually be your #1 and #2
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
If they decide to let Stevie walk, it will doom their tenure. No matter how things play out, the fanbase will never be able to support them. Fans are the ones who shell out money for jerseys and tickets. They’re the ones showing up at training camp to aid in the preseason buzz.
Take away Stevie, and you take away a player many people have invested some amount of time and money in as a player to root for over many years.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 12, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
OK, so who??
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
Wow
I concur.
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 13, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Meaning
I agree with Necci.
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 13, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Explanation
Is below
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 13, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
Johnson, of course. Im actually okay with lettibg jackson walk just to let spiller be out featured back
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Jan 12, 2012 12:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Stevie, 100%
Fred is still under contract. Get the soon to be UFA under contract, then worry about extensions.
I hate that I love Buffalo.
Voted Jackson thinking it would be much simpler and quicker, thus easier to get out of the way. Either way, if they did Johnson first I’d imagine it wouldn’t be difficult to get Freddy out of the way before TC. This is a bit of a non-issue for me but still an interesting topic.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR, Nick Toon - WR, Marvin McNutt - WR, Dan Persa - QB, Russell Wilson - QB, Whitney Mercilus - DE, Melvin Ingram - DE/OLB, Jared Crick - 3/4 or 4/3 DE, Alshon Jeffery - WR, Michael Floyd - WR, Ryan Tannehill - QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:15 PM EST reply actions
Stevie for sure
Freddie should not even be the second or third or fourth priority. Freddie should be extended after all the UFA’s that they decide to keep.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
What is Jackson looking for exactly?
I know we’ve seen teh $7.5MM for Stevie but what is Freddy asking for? Given his talents you have to hope there is a hometown discount on top of the discount on age and the wealth of RB talent in the NFL right now.
Sign Stevie to a long term deal. While negotiations are ongoing, Buddy and Ralph should head to Freddie’s house in a brand-new Porsche, toss him the keys when they get there, and remind him that they’ve promised to take care of him when it’s contract time.
by silvermike on Jan 12, 2012 12:23 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Absolutely not!!
Toss him the keys to an F250 Crewcab diesel!
That will warm his cockles.
You guys realize you live in Buffalo, right?
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 12, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Fred is my priority
We can’t afford to enter free agency with players thinking the Bills are cheap/not committed to winning.
Sign Jackson or risk both labels.
Wait, other players won’t come here because we are cheap with THEM. Not because we haven’t yet extended a guy on the roster. Pay them and they could care less about Fred Jackson’s contract status.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 12, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
right on this account
but I think we can refine Whatever’s statement to be true in the context of wanting to keep home-grown talent as Nix has said. Rewarding Fred and Stevie might help guys we draft want to stay here too unlike our unfortunate recent history of men bolting for the door as soon as their contract is up.
This is what is on the line, I believe. Both men have explicitly said multiple times they not only want badly to remain Bills but they want to be a part of turning this team into a winner. Letting them walk would send a message to guys in their position in the future that its about the bottom line for the Bills and therefore should be for their players too.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 12, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
@grey: Excellent point. Rec’d.
@poz: I am less worried about draftees, because this is their first exposure. They are hard wired to buy into coaching, and if we progress, there is no reason to be skeptical. That is, unless of course your proven players aren’t getting paid. I do agree that paying Steve and Fred both (in that order for me) is all about the message that they want to send to their locker room, and their players. The way that I see it, the fact that they want to stay at all, unlike the “recent history of men bolting for the door” is a clear indication of a unified locker room. Many may think that it doesn’t matter, but I couldn’t disagree more.
Great coaches coach great teams, and the way they do that is convincing their players they are capable, they have their best interests in mind, and they want to put them into good situations. FAILING to pay these guys, sends the exact opposite message. This is a mistake only a fool could make, and so, I am in the opinion we will work out deals with both, because it is just plain better business.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 13, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
I would think Fitz's reported 60 million dollar deal would have more of an impact on perceptions than if we extend Freddie before FA.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
It’s really only an average amount based on other starting QBs. It’s just that they had been paying peanuts for their starting QBs the last few years. Edwards made somewhere between 300 and 700k a year and Fitz was at 3 mil a year, I think.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 12, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
True, I guess I assume players are like casual fans in that they probably only catch the big headlines of other teams.
Freddie getting an extension would just be a blurb while Fitz’s contract got a lot of attention since he’s a QB. Just guessing of course.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
It's not just a time table thing, though.
Fred flat out deserves to be the No. 1 priority based on his play for not only last season, but recent memory. He’s toed the company line and done all that can be asked of him. That may not be “business ethics” but it’s a display of earned loyalty, something that used to be very important in the NFL and sadly isn’t anymore. It’s not just about the time table, for me at least. I’m with Fred here. Sometimes you have to make a gesture to show a player that you respect what he’s done, and this presents the perfect opportunity to do it.
It doesn’t mean Johnson can’t still be signed in time. Heck, there’s already a reasonable offer from Stevie on the table.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Johnson
Buffalo has very few players that are step above simply being spare parts and one of them is about to be a free agent. That’s priority one right now. I could care less about Jackson’s feelings and the money he feels he deserves; he’s under contract and has no leverage. I expect an extension to get done, but not at the expense of business at hand and the business at hand is Johnson.
Either way, if Buffalo lets either player walk, they are a joke. They can pay lip service about building through the draft, keeping their own, etc, but if they keep letting vets walk away or worse, trading vets for 4th round picks, they are simply a farm team for teams that care about winning. The Pirates have stayed open for business for more than two decades operating within this model and Buffalo is certainly aware of it.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
people need to use their brains
Stevie is an unrestricted FA at the end of march. Freddie still has 1 year left on his contract and they can get him done between after signing Stevie and camp. While i believe Freddie needs a new contract..his is a less immediate need than Stevie.C’mon peopel who think signing fred first is the thing to do…Use your brain
I’m one of Fred’s biggest supporters here, but even I understand the importance of locking up the guy who’s headed towards the exit sign first.
Fred needs a better deal, but there’s still time. I just hope that his age doesn’t give them cause to short-change how impactful he has been to the team over the last few years.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 12, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions
QB Coach
Mortenson says on twitter that David Lee has agreed to go to the Bills over the jets.
Not the place to continue it, but Rex Ryan will undo the Jets. Completely. They need to consider a change in coach.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 12, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather they stay with Rex, Sanchez and Holmes for the next 5 to 10 years, myself.
But that’s just me. And I may have a biased opinion.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 12, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
recd because i share this sentiment. I don’t see how it’s biased at all. i mean;
Santonio Holmes single-handedly won the Super Bowl. He fetched a FOURTH ROUNDER afterwards too. I mean, that clearly shows how valuable he is.
Sanchez, is a first round quarterback. That means he has a better chance than other QBs to be successful. He MUST be as good as any out there, Rex Ryan says so.
Rex Ryan is an amazing coach, because his Dad is. I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE that a son would not be as good at something his dad does well. Duh.
hahaha. jokes are funny.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 13, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree Afghan
and when the national media was falling in love with Ryan’s smack talk many of us knew this would happen.
You can’t have an undisciplined coach and expect a disciplined team. It was bound to happen. Plus Sanchez is Sanchez
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
I think most real fans saw it comming.
And I honestly couldn’t be happier about it. There’s not team that I hate more than the Jets, and Rex just kept on adding fuel to the fire.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 13, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Freddie would be about #5 on the list of current players.
As with most of the other posts above say, timing dictates you need to talk with our UFA’s first.
I’d prefer Freddie get an extension before mini-camps, but the only real deadline will be training camp.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
If this makes sense
It’d be smarter to lock up Stevie first, but Freddy deserves a new contract at least as much.
by BillsThickNThin on Jan 12, 2012 2:06 PM EST reply actions
I get
what your saying
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Trick question Brian
Voted #22 as I believe he is the MVP of the team & can(did) put the team on his back to get the W.
However its pretty prudent to make your moves in conjunction w/the contract time line factor, which would mean Stevie, who should certainly be resigned 1st, especially considering #14 will be under center.
But whoever see’s the picture the way Buddy does prob will sign 1st. Freddy needs a 3 or 4 yr contract with heavy incentives built in, or if he produces like last yr pay him big. Stevie needs a solid base, but Id throw the incentives @ him too; as well as a good behavior clause.
"Will&Work2Win"coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Jan 12, 2012 2:20 PM EST reply actions
There's a difference between a poll early in the season vs a poll now
When they were both under contract earlier in the season (last poll), I wanted to see them both extended. Which one first wasn’t so relevant to me, but if I have to choose I would’ve said FJ because he was playing so well at the time. I know the arguments about how he’s locked up at a cheap rate until he turns 31, but I absolutely agree with those that view this as a message to other players. If you don’t take care of FJ, why does that tell others about coming to Buffalo as a FA? I say we extend him for 2 more years, $10-15mm guaranteed. That’ll take him through 2015. Hopefully we can then lock up CJ again in 2014 at a lower rate (because he can’t get enough touches), and he can then take over for the next 4-5 years.
At this point, however, I’d say Stevie has to be the priority. He’s an UFA whereas FJ can wait. I don’t think it’s inconsistent to view FJ as a bigger priority 4 months ago but view Stevie as the bigger priority now.
I voted for Fred
Because Fred Jackson is AWESOME and a bag of chips.
And because he didn’t get into the all star game, now I’m voting him for everything.
by Munchausen on Jan 12, 2012 3:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Not to change subjects
But now that CJ has become a commidity wouldn’t he be worth more than Freddie in the trade market? First off let me say that I hope they keep both of them but what about trading CJ to a team looking for that home run back like Sproles in NO. A couple that come to mind would be the Steelers, Skins, SF, Philly (I believe McCoy is free agent)…. I think with the right team you could get either a decent #2 wr or a good passing rushing DE/OLB. Obviously this is all speculation and would probably have to have some picks thrown in on both sides to even things out, but it would seem to me that CJ is much more valuable on the trade market than Freddie.
Not gonna happen
Do you recall hearing the term "stacking players from Nix? This is a prime example.
Also, this would cause a hole in the depth similar to WR, OL, etc.
Here's hoping!
I'm actually a bit surprised that SJ is running away with this poll
With all the Stevie is an “immature diva, who hurts his team with penalties, and loses games for us with all of his drops” talk that had been floating around. Glad to see folks thinking with their heads more than their hearts.
Fred can wait. Take care of the UFAs 1st. I think that speaks just as loudly to other players and the fan base as the “atta boy Fred!” contract he deserves.
Sure, Fitz aced the Wonderlic test...but he does not pass the Eyeball test...
TWTS - That's what they said....
Stevie without question. Guy is proven now, so let’s also at least make a play to get him some help on the other side in FA market. I love Nelson and maybe Easley actually takes a regular season snap again, but going after talent like V. Jackson should be high on their list. CJ is no Fred Ex, but if we loose Stevie, the tumbleweeds start blowing at the WR slot in a hurry.
by AlwaysaBillinPhilly on Jan 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST reply actions
… and maybe Easley actually takes a regular season snap again, …
Easley’s next regular season snap will be his first. He has been on IR before the start of both of his two seasons.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 12, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
This idea
that Fred Jackson “deserves” a renegotiation is a nice idea but not very economical. The Bills have him by the short hairs and everyone knows it. I like Jackson a lot. I like him a lot more on the contract he is at. I haven’t heard or read any numbers that people are suggesting for his raise. What do you think his agent is going to ask for? Top 15 money? Top 10? Top 5? That matters a lot. Finally paying a 31 year old (in Feb) slowish running back coming off a significant leg injury, and adding (3 or 4 years) is crazy. Really crazy. He’s good and he was having a great year, but over the last three years he has been an average running back with some upside. Do people still think he has significant upside? Sign the young WR who is a UFA.
It’s somewhat economical if the Bills will anger their fan base by not paying a fan favorite, though.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I mean this
with all sincerity, why do you care how much Jackson or any Bill gets paid as long as Fred (or that person) is on the roster. I know that if Fred does not get contract, he’s going to hold out. But where is Fred’s leverage (outside the agreement he had with Nix which is not insignificant)? Take a look at his entire career objectively. He’s about a top 15-20 back over the last 3 years. Is he going to be a top 10 back over the next three years, that’s at least what his agent is going to be looking at right?
I care because these things affect their play on the field. Also, he’s a good guy, a great player, and deserves his payday after putting up with the crap he’s had to deal with over the last 4 years.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Well now you sound
like a “Derek Jeter contract extension” fan. Pay the guy a big raise for what he used to be and what he had done before, not for what he is going to do. I hate to say it but I’m with J09 on this one. Fred’s a great guy and all but his production is only going to go down or at least his value will only go down. We spent a #1 pick 9th overall on a young explosive RB who has shown he is capable of producing when he gets chances. Do you really think Fred will get the lion’s share of the carries again to put up those same numbers? Especially after suffering a broken leg for a 31 yr old RB? From a fan’s standpoint sure give him his pay raise it’s not my money, but from an organizational standpoint it doesn’t make much sense.
If I was running the organization I would at the very least entertain offers to trade Fred. His value is at its peak and we could use that to trade up to get our franchise QB or a great #1 or 2 WR (if Blackmon is a guy we want opposite Stevie) since it seems this organization is sold on Fitz. It’s a move that may not be popular with some of the fan base but would better the organization in the long run.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
I’m fine with looking to trade him, but I don’t understand the idea that pissing off your playmakers is good from an organizational standpoint. Yes, I believe he can come back and be productive. He does not have the mileage other backs his age have, and they are still producing. And even if he’s not as good as he used to be, he can certainly still make plays for us, and be a nice complement to Spiller.
I don’t care if he’s 31, he’s shown to be a playmaker and a catalyst for the offense. We need to keep players like that on the team and make them happy, especially when they’re not asking for outrageous contracts.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
That's fine
You think the team is better having both RB’s on the roster and paying him the raise. I see that side and can respect it.
To me it’s better for the team to trade Fred while his value is at it’s highest. Now obviously I wouldn’t agree with a stupid mid-round pick trade like they did with Lynch and Evans (both were dumb moves that set this organization back in my mind but that’s a different story). However to the right team I think we can get a 2nd maybe even a 1st round pick for him. We could use that pick to move up in the draft as I said before or trade him and our 1st to a RB needy team like the Browns perhaps (assuming they don’t resign Hillis).
The fact that we have a very good younger RB waiting in the wings in Spiller who has also shown that he can be just as good a playmaker and catalyst makes it a smart move. Add to that Fred’s age and injury concerns along with contract demands, it would be better if we traded him and made his contract demands their problem.
I see your side, I just hope you see mine. You believe it’s better for the team in the short term, I think it’s better for the team in the long term.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
I would be fine with extending him, and I would be fine with trading him for good compensation. A 2nd round pick would be awesome, but I doubt it would happen. I think a 1st is a pipe dream. However, crazier things have happened, and if Nix swings a trade of Freddie for a 1st rounder, I would be in his camp again whole heartedly.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Hit reply too soon…what I wouldn’t be fine with is making him angry during his last year with the team and then letting him walk.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
that wouldn't happen
he would just sit out, and wait to grab a good contract when he was a free agent, more than likely. and we would get nothing in exchange. I am with you: sign him for 3 years, 28 mil, 15 in guarantees, and then you can always trade him in 2 years when CJ’s contract becomes a little too much to be paying for a backup. OR trade him now, let the contract be someone elses problem, and I am betting a 2nd isn’t out of reach, or if nothing else, 3rd this year, and next would probably be a secondary possibility. Either way: We have a starting RB, because they chose to draft one in the first round, and now they have shown he can play, so it seems like he should be on the field. All that said: Fred has told the media that Nix has basically assured him he will be re-signed, so if Nix trades him, he basically lies to his players. That won’t help us with re-signing players in the future, or bringing free agents in, so the most likely solution is that we will just pay the guy.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 13, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I hope so. I really like the idea of he and Spiller together…assuming we have an offensive playcaller who knows how to get them on the field together (which they should be EVERY SINGLE DOWN).
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I agree with those that say Fred
Also think that this is a done deal already.Fred really has no leverage,He just outplayed His contract significantly and will likely sign for just a little more than what CJ gets.Wouldn’t think of trading Him either unless it was a really sweet deal because both Fred and CJ compete and push for carries.That competition really benefits the whole team.
secure Stevie
Get Steve done…. Then Pay Fred – give him a nice sweet 3 yr deal that management can live with and he can be very happy with. More importantly – Full-fill the promise you made to the man who has busted his a—, remained loyal and flat out deserves it. Trade him or screw him and it IMO will go down as the single most disgusting back stabbing incident in Bills business history. If nothing else suffices have Ralph slip him a envelope with 10 mil tax free in it – then trade him. Clowns have paid so many epic fails – to not reward Fred would be criminal.
by Xebache on Jan 12, 2012 5:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS!
Well said my friend.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 12, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
What
do you think he and his agent will ask for? This idea that he just wants 10 million over three years. Would like to know what people think is “fair”? According to cap hit. Where does Fred fit in at age 31 going forward?
1
Adrian Peterson at
Running Back
$12,705,000
2
Jamaal Charles at
Running Back
$12,350,000
3
Steven Jackson at
Running Back
$9,848,332
4
Darren McFadden at
Running Back
$8,121,667
5
Maurice Jones-Drew at
Running Back
$7,910,000
6
Michael Turner at
Running Back
$7,500,000
7
Frank Gore at
Running Back
$7,133,000
8
Brandon Jacobs at
Running Back
$6,962,500
9
Cedric Benson at
Running Back
$5,000,000
Chris Johnson at
Running Back
$5,000,000
10
Ryan Grant at
Running Back
$4,750,000
LOL
Appreciate all the data. Actually I just pulled the random number outta my a—. I meant it as IF we are gonna screw him slip him a ???substantial amount to back pay him for his service. I really don’t follow pay scales, contracts, and such. I know they get paid 16 times a year after each game and I could live rather well on 1 check from the lowest paid players. Wether I was handed 2 mil or 10 all I know is I would retire and go fishing and me and mine wouldn’t worry about eating for a cpl generations. While I understand your point – mine is simple that they have more our less slighted Fred his whole stay here, and he is owed.
i post above
3 years, 28 mil, 15 guaranteed, and that would give him a base salary around 4, with 5 mil in bonus, no way he makes any less than 19 million from us since he will play this season (if we agreed to this deal, otherwise I would bet he would hold out)… and then he will make another ten if he just plays out the contract. if he were somehow still producing, we could sign him yearly, to back up CJ. I see no reason Ralph/Nix/Fred/Chan/CJ/ anyone really could have a problem with this.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 13, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Stevie
If for no other reason than you re-sign the guy who’s contract expires first.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 12, 2012 7:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Neither
I boldly predict FO will lowball SJ and not re-sign FJ at all. Go youth with cj and some body. As well as draft 1st wr to start immed. replacing SJ. Yes I want a qb but don’t predict FO will pick one in first rd. Bold but I think thats how FO will operate.:(
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
Sj will get the franchise tag and freddie will be dealt
by Feedjasper on Jan 13, 2012 4:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Steve will be re-signed, around 7-8 million/year, for 5-6 years, with around 22 guaranteed. (they tried to low ball him already and it didn't work)
and Fred will be re-signed also, for the reasons I highlight above.
I COULD see SJ getting franchise tagged, but only in the temporary, because he has already done the whole “proving” season thing, and either they are convinced or they aren’t, at this point.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 13, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
that is exactly why Stevie won't get franchised....what would be the point?
he has already done the whole "proving" season thing, and either they are convinced or they aren’t, at this point.
CHIX should know ….pause for uncontrolled laughter….what they have in him. Stevie is either part of the future or he isn’t. Franchising him simply delays using whatever 4th round pick they give him away for to draft some project player who will probably be a depth player somewhere down the road. Money may be used as an excuse, but it isn’t the real issue here…..Stevie’s asking price is reasonable.
And if they are low balling Stevie, why wouldn’t they low ball Freddie? He is under contract for another year and isn’t getting any younger? Spiller has shown enough to make Freddie expendable. Like I said before, the smartest thing they could do is package Freddie with some picks and move up to the number 2 or 3 spot to take RG3, Blackmon, Kalil, or Claiborne…..either way, the Bills get an elite player they desperately need. The Rams may not want to deal and risk losing Kalil. The Vikes are sitting at 3 and just lost Peterson. It is going to be close to a year before he is back to himself if he ever gets back. They get Jackson to fix their RB issue and still pick up a very good OT with the Bills #10 pick.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
just to move him
and still get something for him.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 14, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
otherwise i completely agree with all that.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 14, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
johnson is currently not under contract with us and we really need him ore than we need jackson spiller proved he can get it done as without stevie we would be really hurting not to take anyhting away from jackson that injury came at a bad time for him but it is going to be intresting to see what kind of deal he gets considering he is in his thirtys and not that far from retirment plus the innjury dosent help him what rae your thpoughts could he be franchise tagged in the future?

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