BPA Draft
by howedyhowe on Jan 18, 2012 12:12 AM EST
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This is just my opinion on how I would like to see the draft enfold.
Round 1: David DeCastro, G, Stanford
At pick 10 I feel 3 QB's will already be gone, as well as both good LT. Why not take one of the best OL prospects in years. I know this is a strong part of out team already but Nix is huge on BPA and I think this is what is there at 10
Other possibilities: Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford, Whitney Mercilus DE/OLB, Illinois
Round 2: Nick Foles, QB, Arizona
Not ready to play just yet, but great athlete, arm strength, and intelligence. Needs to improve some accuracy issues. Has an absolute cannon for an arm.
Other Possibilities: Jared Crick, DE/DT, Nebraska, Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech
Round 3: Ronnell Lewis, DE/OLB, Oklahoma
Pass rush needs to improve. Player with a great motor, from a great program. Situational pass rusher to start the season, starter by the end of the year.
Other Possibilities:Johnathan Banks, CB, Mississippi State, Jonathan Massaquoi, DE/OLB, Troy
Round 4: Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech
Fast down field threat, need to get better running routes, good hands, better speed.
Round4: Leonard Johnson, CB, Iowa State
Good speed/size. Add to depth in a depleted secondary.
Round 5: Terrell Manning, OLB, N.C. State
Depth, Depth, Depth
Round 6: Ladarius Green, TE, Louisiana-Lafayette
Good size, fits the TE mold that Gailey likes.
Round 7: Malik Jackson, OLD/DE Tennessee
Probably doesn't make the roster, but bring in to push others at rush linebacker.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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I like the decastro pick if brockers is there he is the pick
In the second round i like stephen gilmore cb south carolina instead of foles i also think we have something in moats when given the chance he has produced and with a front line of brockers williams and dareus the linebackers instantly get better
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Jan 18, 2012 2:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Why not? Discussion, people. Discuss things.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 18, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Guard at 10 is crazy
When was the last time a guard was taken in the top 10 picks?
The first guard off the board the last 5 years:
11: Danny Watkins 23rd selection
10: Mike Iupati 17th selection
09: Andy Levitre 51st selection
08: Chilo Rachal 39th selection
07: Ben Grubbs 29th selection
That is also one of the positions that the Bills don’t need an upgrade at to make the playoffs. I think they go for a rusher off the edge or a WR, but that’s just me. Nix historically doesn’t draft tackles in the first round, and they need a OLB/DE that can get to the QB in the worst way.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
You got me thinking... when was the last time a guard was a top 10 pick?
Here is a list of the guards who were top ten picks dating back to 1970:
1986 – John Rienstra – Steelers – 5 years – Tons of health problems – Didn’t pan out
1984 – Gary Zimmerman – Giants – HOF
1983 – Bruce Matthews – Oilers – HOF
1982 – Mike Munchak – Oilers – HOF
1975 – Ken Huff – Colts – Solid guard with Baltimore and a part of famed hogs in Washington
1974 – John Hicks – Giants – don’t know much about him besides played for 4 years
1973 – John Hannah – Patriots – HOF
1972 – Royce Smith – Saints – One of the worst picks in Saints history
That’s 4 Hall of Famers out of 8 players. I like those odds!
It’s also crazy to me to think it’s been 26 years since a guard has gone top 10..
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
Still 50%. It’s only as good as a coin toss. not to mention that the game is much different from the mid 80s now. It’s an interesting point, but how relevant is it now? Wood and Levitre were the top two G prospects that year and bills snagged wood late in the first by trading back up and then landed levitre in two. Why burn a top 10 pick when the rest of the league isn’t looking at those guys until pick 20+.
(Yes i know Wood is the center now, but remember he started his NFL career at guard)
The 50% success rate is at a Hall of Fame level. I would take those odds all day every day.
While I think it’s fair to say the game has changed, the fact that he is being looked at during a time that the guard position isn’t perceived as important as it was in the past, might just speak to how good this guy could be. And from what I can gather it’s not just Bills fans who think DeCastro could be a top 10 Pick.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
also… Zimmerman is in the HOF as a Tackle not a Guard. so you are under 50%. (Zimmerman was also taken number 3 in the supplemental draft, but it doesn’t matter, he’s a tackle not a guard)
and where the fans want a guy to go is irrelevant. the decisions are made in the front offices and you’d have to believe the majority of them have also noticed the recent trend of interior lineman not being considered until later in the first round. Not a guarantee but likely.
Zimmerman is in the HOF as a Tackle not a Guard
If we take Zimmerman away then we are looking at 3 out of 7 or 43%. I’ll still take take those odds all day every day.
and where the fans want a guy to go is irrelevant
True and I think we all understand this point. But the draft pundits are the ones that drive the fans perceptios of players. Those are the guys that have some credibility.
Sure he may not be worth a top 10 pick, but I disagree he should be discounted just because recent history has no guards taken in the top 10.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
But the draft pundits are the ones that drive the fans perceptios of players.
Pretty much. As Nix said, the big board is made at the end of the college season. The only thing the draft does is move a prospect up or down a few slots.
As of 1/17/2012
No longer feeding the Buffalo Rumblings resident troll.
No longer responding to said trolls passive aggressive posts.
Not even if he baits by replying to a comment of my own.
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by NordicBillsfan on Jan 18, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
*should say
“the only thing the combine does…”
As of 1/17/2012
No longer feeding the Buffalo Rumblings resident troll.
No longer responding to said trolls passive aggressive posts.
Not even if he baits by replying to a comment of my own.
Not even if his reply is devoid of all logic and assumes opinion as fact.
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 18, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not discounting him based on that fact alone. I’m simply saying he isn’t worth a top ten pick, at least from the bills stand point. It’s not a weak position for the team, although they need depth but they can build later. There are greater issues with the team that need to be addressed before they look at the interior line spots.
The point I was trying to make is that in recent years, the top interior lineman tend to be available later in the first round. Burning a #10 pick on one doesn’t make sense for a team with a good interior and issues elsewhere. Trading down or back into the late 1st would make more sense for an interior lineman because they are available then.
Trading down or back into the late 1st would make more sense for an interior lineman because they are available then.
And I respectfully disagree with that. I say if he is a legitimate top 10 talent even at the guard position he needs to be considered at ten. To me that says talent evaluators believe he will be better than guys like Wood or Levitre. It says he might be better than any guard who has come out in 25 years. I’m not at all for trading back for an interior lineman, or any other position, who is not a top 10 talent. We need elite talent.
Now is he that good, who knows… but if the Bills believe he is, i’m fine with him being our pick.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
Sometimes its easier to make a strength stronger. No doubt we are a great running team. Make the holes even bigger for Freddy, and CJ.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
by howedyhowe on Jan 18, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The only way that I feel they could justify the pick is if they were trying to create the best running game in the NFL. They have the backs to do it, they have the climate to justify it, but they don’t have the coaching philosophy or the defense to back it up.
The Bills lack playmakers, and they aren’t likely to pick them up via free agency. That leaves the draft, and they aren’t likely to find guys that can have an immediate impact outside of the first round or two. Not saying it can’t happen (Stevie Johnson, Kyle Williams, etc) but it is very important to make good on those picks.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
They have the backs to do it, they have the climate to justify it, but they don’t have the coaching philosophy or the defense to back it up.
I would like to think that Gailey would be in on the decision of picking the players and would adjust accordingly. At least I hope so, maybe with the Bills you never know.
"You are every bit as good as everyone else, but not one bit better."
-Eldred Lee
Gailey
I would give him the benefit of the doubt about switching to an offense predicated on running the football, but too many times this season he completely abandoned running the ball. I understand in some of those games they were trailing, and I also understand that some of those games were against teams with stout run defenses, but I just get the feeling that Gailey would much rather sling it than run.
I’m also assuming that Gailey understands what type of a defense he had (not a very good one) and how much controlling the clock can help a defense out. You can control the clock throwing the football, but you can’t do it when Fitz isn’t getting the job done. I’m not claiming to know more about football than Chan Gailey, but in my opinion they would have been better suited running the football in numerous games this year. Dallas, Tennessee, and San Diego immediately come to mind, and I’m sure there was more.
I am the type of guy that didn’t mind the Jason Peters trade because a) they got Eric Wood with the draft pick and b) they would save the money from an “elite” left tackle and would be able to invest elsewhere. I think that the offensive line is important but down the list when it comes to factors in the Bills winning a Super Bowl.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
"The only way that I feel they could justify the pick is if they were trying to create the best running game in the NFL."
A) I wouldn’t mind if the Bills had the best Running game in the NFL. (For a change.)
B) Look at the “Hulk” formation of the SF Offense. This will be next year’s new fad trend (can I got a Holla for the Wildcat? Anyone… anyone?) , but not everyone has the personnel to do it yet. Adding DeCastro could make it happen for us.
C) As far a BPA available goes, the dude is really good. If the top 2 QB’s, OT’s and OLB/DE types are gone… why not?
We need to help the strength of this team, which is the run. He is a dominate run blocker. They averaged over 200 rushing yards per game, even with Luck throwing the ball a lot. If we can average those kind of numbers it will open the field up for Fitz to be what he is….a game manager.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
Pass rusher
Our OL is not a great concern. Pass rusher is. Waiting until the 3rd round to select a pass rusher isn’t the answer
Pass rushers can be found in any round of the draft
I would take a elite talent at 10 over a good to great pass rusher any day no matter the position
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Jan 18, 2012 12:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not on this team. They have almost no pass rush and the offensive line is solid.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
There is always room for improvement at every position
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Jan 18, 2012 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
But improving on a position of strength while ignoring weakness is just silly. The Bills could potentially draft Trent Richardson from Alabama who they could view as being better than Jackson and Spiller. That doesn’t mean that they should draft him.
Matt Millen tried to improve on his WR corp every year. He finally hit on his last pick, but drafting like that cost him his job (that and the fact that he didn’t address any need in free agency).
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
Also
I didn’t even touch on value. If the Bills can get an elite pass rusher at #10 they won’t be breaking the bank. They could potentially save a ton of money because an elite pass rusher via free agency is very costly. A top tier guard, though, doesn’t cost nearly as much. So by taking a guard at ten they won’t be allocating their resources as best as they can. There’s a reason there hasn’t been a guard taken in the top 10 since the 80’s.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
Take bpa any day even if its Richardson
Talent trumphs need especially in the top 10 elite talent is what wins games not drafting needs
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Jan 18, 2012 4:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
some good things and some bad things. you definitely have some good players on this list. but..
decastro would be an odd pick. he may be the BPA, but how much better does the team really get by replacing urbik (or levitre) with decastro? interior olinemen dont win super bowls, which is why you rarely see them in the top 10/15 picks..
jonathan banks is staying in school, hes not a possibility. i think thats also super high for hosley, he was always an underachiever in college.
terrell manning being available in the 5th round is really wishful thinking, that guy can flat out play
ladarius green doesnt even remotely fit the mold of a chan gailey tight end. green is ultra (ultra) thin throughout his entire frame. with gailey hed function more as a de facto receiver
malik jackon is an intriguing pick, but again i see it as wishful thinking that he falls that far. on a side note, theres no way hes an OLB. jacksons like a 280 lb guy who played almost exclusively as a DT for the vols.
and your missing a pick from the marshawn lynch trade
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
boomsauce
Injuries are going to happen. Why not be prepared for it? It makes the team better in that regard. If there isn’t anyone else really worth the 10th overall pick, why not do it? Some Giants fans complained that all they did was draft pass rushers. Well, time has shown that the organization was wise to do it and now they are very talented and have some depth at that position. The Packers didn’t need a QB right away when they drafted Aaron Rodgers. Good players are good players. If there isn’t a player that you think can help you at a position of need, I think you should draft the best player available to strengthen your team. I think DeCastro is too good to pass up at that spot. Who else are we going to draft? Coples? ROMFL. The guy doesn’t play as hard as he can and he looks like he is below-average to average at best when he isn’t trying. And I saw a lot of that and I don’t think more money is going to fix that. Upshaw? I think much more highly of him than I do of Coples. I went back and looked at some analysis of him and I think it is a possibility now. He seemed to be a bit faster when they let him cut it loose on third and long situations and when he wasn’t playing contain against the run or against Newton. And it actually looks like he is trying.
the bills have 4 solid (and young) interior offensive linemen. forgive me for not seeing why the 10th overall pick should be used on decastro, even if he is BPA. in that situation id simply prefer the bills taken the second best player available.
but really that comment confuses me. i dont think its fair to draw a comparison between using a pick like this on depth for offensive guard against using a pick like this on depth at QB or pass rusher. QB and pass rusher are significantly more important positions than OG. great quarterbacks and great pass rushers can define a great football team. the same cannot be said for right guards.
after that, for reasons i dont understand, u jump right into assuming that id rather the bills take coples or upshaw (neither of which are players im particularly high on).
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
the bills have 4 solid (and young) interior offensive linemen. forgive me for not seeing why the 10th overall pick should be used on decastro, even if he is BPA.
I think the reason why we disagree on this is because of our differing views of the depth we have. Rinehart is okay and I don’t know much about Brown. My reasoning behind it is that DeCastro is better than Brown is. If that is the case, and I am guessing that it is, then I think it would be a wise move.
but really that comment confuses me. i dont think its fair to draw a comparison between using a pick like this on depth for offensive guard against using a pick like this on depth at QB or pass rusher. QB and pass rusher are significantly more important positions than OG. great quarterbacks and great pass rushers can define a great football team. the same cannot be said for right guards.
A QB or pass rusher might be important but I would suggest that the people blocking for the QB or blocking the pass rusher can be just as important.
after that, for reasons i dont understand, u jump right into assuming that id rather the bills take coples or upshaw (neither of which are players im particularly high on).
Did you wake up in a bad mood or something? I wasn’t trying to say that you were saying that. I was going by what some people on here were saying.
im hungover. so ya i guess i am in a bad mood. i guess we just disagree on the importance/impact of adding a player like decastro to the bills roster. i think were on the same page in terms of how good the guy is, though.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
It isn’t so much that we need a guard. The problem that I have right now is saying that a pass rusher is worth the #10th overall pick. To me, there isn’t a pass rusher worth that high of a pick. Let me give you an example. Lets say you go to the store to buy mangoes. You have six dollars in you wallet. You get to the produce section and notice that all of the mangoes have some dents and blemishes and they cost $2.50 apiece. But you notice out of the corner of your eye some fresh baked Italian bread in the bakery and it is selling at about the same price. I need mangoes for the recipe that I am trying to put together but none of them are really good enough. But you can use that bread for sandwiches and other things. Plus you can get mangoes from a different store later on. To me, I would prefer the Italian bread over the mangoes that aren’t quite right.
Love DeCastro. I think 2nd round is much too high for Foles to me. He’s not a proven winner and he’s always looked stiff to me. Sort of reminds me of Jevan Snead
Kenny Powers is back!
I watched a lot of tape on Foles, and at first I couldn’t stand him. Out of the shotgun he is a monster, very quick, strong release, decent 3 step drop. 5 step needs work. He is mobile enough to create plays if the protection doesn’t hold up. I don’t expect him to play for atleast a year. He is praised in scout circles for his pump fake, Big Ben like in that aspect. No question he needs to improve throws on the run, and some footwork issues. But I feel his upside is very high with time to mature.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
For people doubting that he is worthy of a number 10 pick I suggest reading a few scouting reports.
He is literally the best interior lineman prospect in quite some time. As much as we like Wood, he is starting to develop a injury history…granted the broken leg couldn’t be avoided. Urbik can be a insurance poilicy as depth. Nothing wrong with 4 good interior linemen. We are a running team. We need to help our strength which is the run, thus taking pressure off Fitz, making him a better game manager, which he is.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
Sorry, the links didn't show up.
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012ddecastro.php
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2949
http://www.buffalobillsdraft.com/2012/01/og-david-decastro-scouting-report/
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
Nice Post
Don’t let the experts get you down. ;)
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
I am actually starting to like Upshaw for us the more I see him play. He seems to have pretty good acceleration and speed and ability to rush the passer when they gave him a chance to do it. Watch him against LSU.
I went back and looked at it again. Nope. He is still slow. I must have been fooling myself. He would be perfect in the 2nd round but not before that in my opinion.
DeCastro
What good is an elite run blocker for an elite run abandoner like Gailey? You think he is gonna change his popgun spread O to a power running game? Based on the fact it took him 2 years almost to realize his popgun spread gets him blownout against the jets and maybe it’s better to not use it to get better matchups on O by putting in 2 TE instead and that he realized by burning down the 4-3 for a 3-4 instead of building upon it and having to back track to a 4-3 hybrid in about a year, I think he would figure out it might be better to go to a power offense in two years right when he’s about to be fired, if he isn’t fired before that. I have lost all faith in Gailey. He has been away from the NFL for too long and is a dinosaur. Even Jauron did better with about the same talent level. I have a feeling by the end of next year, many here will be calling for Gailey’s head.
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by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 19, 2012 6:29 AM EST reply actions
Still
I don’t think any team will take him in the top 10. An elite guard just doesn’t have that kind of value. You can usually find them in the 20s. It’s the easiest spot on the OL to play.
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DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 19, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What were the circumstances of those drafts? People are picked based on who is available and what a team’s need is. If there isn’t anyone else as good as DeCastro that is available there, why not pick him? For every pick after the Bills pick, I think the chance of DeCastro being selected go way way up. Go by some of the mock drafts that we have seen recently. Is Coples worth the 10th overall pick? I don’t think so. Desire, attitude, and effort are things that should be there already for someone that you are going to be picking at #10. How about Upshaw? I don’t think he is good enough of a pass rusher to help us. Reiff? He may be gone before he gets to us and honestly he seemed like he didn’t care or like he was thin-skinned in an interview that he did before this season started. I think that he will be an okay tackle but I definitely have my reservations. How about Martin? I personally don’t know much about Martin. How about Melvin Ingram? He does an okay to decent job against the run and he has a few pass rushing moves. However, I don’t think he has the speed and acceleration to be much of a factor at DE. Okay now lets go to wide receivers. How about Floyd? Is he worth the 10th overall pick? I don’t know much about him but my initial impression is that he is not. Would Justin Blackmon be? I think just about everyone would say absolutely yes. Is he going to be there? I highly doubt that. If RG III was there, I would say take him but right now it doesn’t look like that will be the case. Who else are we going to pick? That is how I got to my opinion that we should take DeCastro. I think we can take DeCastro and pick up a pass rusher in the 2nd or 3rd round and we should probably pick up a wide receiver in either the 2nd or 3rd round.
I think he only way we go OL in the first 2-3 rounds is if Bell leaves
We just re-signed Pears for RT and our O Line as a unit was a pleasant surprise this year even with injuries to Wood and Bell. If we were to go Martin it would probably only be if Bell leaves. Bell is serviceable, the only problem is he has played less than 8 games in 3 of the past 4 years. I would be highly surprised to go G at #10, however Martin as a Bell replacement is feasible. Personally, I hope we go OLB/DE in round one (and I think we will depending on who slips) then in round two OLB/DE/WR/CB/S. I’ll bet we target a QB in the mid to late rounds as a backup/project but doubt its before round 4. Our needs aren’t as obvious as in past years so I hope we bring a BPA attitude after the first several rounds.
by BillsThickNThin on Jan 19, 2012 12:07 PM EST reply actions
Clearly my opinions are subject to criticism
but I doubt any of us will accurately predict what CHIX will do after a couple rounds. I can’t wait for the draft it’s he height of my Bills optimism every year.
by BillsThickNThin on Jan 19, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
From what I've heard,
DeCastro is touted as one of the top guards ever in college football. While guard is a position that is of relative strength for the Bills, it’s not a position where we have an elite player at present. Levitre and Urbik are decent, maybe even good. But they don’t individually create mismatches on a consistent basis.
So by that measure, by taking a position where we have a good player and replacing them with an elite player, I believe that we can add more to our team, then taking a mediocre player and replacing them with a good player. The Bills would do well to draft a guy like this if he’s available. There’s probably about 10 guys in the entire draft that are of this caliber, and I’d put Luck, Griffin, Blackmon, Claiborne, Richardson and DeCastro in that grouping.
If they think a player in a position we need more has as high a potential, yes I would draft them first. It’s not clear that that kind of talent will be around at 10. Nor is it clear that DeCastro will be around either. But I hope that CHIX doesn’t overlook elite talent just because we’re comfortable with the guys wehave at a position. Other than maybe RB and DT, we don’t have players that are true game changers, the kind of dominant players that dictate how opponents approach the game. Wherever these players are in the draft, we have to pick them.
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Jan 20, 2012 12:50 PM EST reply actions
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