We stunk because of injuries. Fact or fiction?
by kai11 on Jan 19, 2012 11:26 PM EST
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I’d say that the Buffalo Rumblings community is one of the most logical, thoughtful, down-to-earth internet forums out there. Yet sometimes I think even our image of reality can become distorted when we give way to “groupthink” and blind optimism.
Such is the case, I believe, with how we’ve been using injuries as an excuse for our team’s failures. (By the way, here’s Brian’s post with a list of Bills players put on IR.)
While I am not suggesting that injuries didn’t harm us, I think we are grossly exaggerating their influence. And I think blaming our terrible season on injuries is merely a way for us to make "the best out of a bad situation." Perhaps because we don’t want to come to terms with the quality of our coaching, training, and personnel, we instead blame our troubles on “bad luck,” and hope that we’ll get this thing turned around next year with a full and healthy roster. And while I, too, wish to remain hopeful, I guess I’m troubled that this excuse has become so widespread.
Anyway, I really don’t think injuries are to blame. A few reasons why:
1. To suffer from injuries is to be unlucky with injuries. Indianapolis was unlucky that Manning had neck problems, as was Kansas City with two of their superstars (Berry/Charles) going down early. For us, it wasn’t about “luck” because most of our injured players ARE ALWAYS INJURED. McGee, Merriman, Bell, Troup, Easley and Parrish all practically live in the hospital. Each of them, lately, has probably spent more time on hospital beds than on Sunday football fields. Sadly, I don't even think I'm exaggerating. When you have a roster fraught with injury prone players, it seems silly to scold the sky for events that seem completely random when they are in fact part of an established pattern.
2. We still had players in key positions. Yes, we lost Lindell. Yes, we lost Donald Jones. Yes, we lost Lee Smith. That said, we always did have the most important pieces of the puzzle in place. For the entire season, we had a healthy #1 QB and #1 WR. And when our #1 RB went down, it wasn’t like we had just some bum off the streets to replace him; Spiller proved more than competent. Yes, we took some shots to the arm and leg, but our vitals—the heart, head, and crotch—went pretty much unscathed.
3. What about Wood? Our left tackle problems? Did you hear that Stevie said he was hurt all year long? Didn’t we lead the league with players placed on IR? Okay, okay. Yes, we lost our best defender (Williams) and our best offensive weapon (Jackson). Our demise, though, had little to do with these injuries. Kyle seemed to be hurt from Day 1, and we began losing loads of games with Jackson and Wood IN the lineup.Every team has injury problems. Occasionally, every team has to patch together an offensive line with scrapheap. And yes, while Stevie played hurt, I’m sure 100% of the NFL players were playing hurt by the end of the year, too. I’m sure, by year’s end, Calvin Johnson and Ray Lewis weren’t spending their off hours synchronized swimming with pristinely acheless and bruiseless bodies.
To restate my position: Injuries were definitely a part of our suckitude, but I would argue, vehemently, that they were not the main cause. We lost, rather, because some of the coaching stunk, some of our players stunk (or are still developing), and—in the simplest terms—the other teams were just better.
Any thoughts?
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Strongest offensive lineman out (Wood), strongest DL out (Williams) created unbalanced lines on both sides. Premium talent gave way to mediocre talent.
It isn’t a quantity question, it is just that the imbalances due to injury gave way to the lack of premium pro talent that is evident on key positions on the team.
Look this isn’t the only issue the team faces, so I agree in that respect, but in the end it was the major story line this year.
1964 and 1965 League Champions, and don't you forget it!
Favorite Fitzpatrick Related Press: "Somehow turned graduating from Harvard and excelling in his career into a surprising succes story" The Onion
i 110% agree with you
i even called out the same players you mentioned in my post to be cut from the team… you can only be healthy once you cut out the weed from your team….
it has become a yearly ritual to blame injuries and look forward to the next season… despicable…
So this post inspired me to take a look at the IR list of the final 4 teams
BALTIMORE RAVENS
Player Pos Date Injury Status Expected Return
Domonique Foxworth CB September 28, 2011 right knee IR September 9, 2012
Comments: The Baltimore Ravens have placed cornerback Domonique Foxworth on injured reserve after he failed to sufficiently recover from a knee injury.
Ramon Harewood T September 3, 2011 IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Baltimore placed Harewood on injured reserve.
Matt Lawrence RB August 30, 2011 concussion IR September 1, 2012
Comments: Lawrence was placed on injured reserve with a concussion.
Michael McAdoo LB September 13, 2011 knee IR August 1, 2012
Comments: McAdoo has landed on injured reserve with a knee injury.
David Reed WR December 26, 2011 knee IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Reed has landed on injured reserve with a knee problem.
Chavis Williams LB December 21, 2011 right foot IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Williams is done for the season with a right foot injury.
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Player Pos Date Injury Status Expected Return
Josh Barrett S November 9, 2011 calf IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Barrett was placed on IR with a calf injury.
Andre Carter DE December 20, 2011 left quadriceps IR September 2, 2012
Comments: The New England Patriots have placed defensive end Andre Carter on injured reserve. Tuesday’s move ends the season of the team’s leader in sacks with 10 and sidelines a key player on a struggling defense. The Patriots have allowed the most yards in the NFL for nearly the entire season.
Christian Cox LB August 19, 2011 neck IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Cox is on injured reserve with a neck injury.
Jermaine Cunningham LB December 10, 2011 hamstring IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Cunningham is done for the season with a hamstring injury.
Ras-I Dowling CB October 29, 2011 hip IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Dowling (hip) was placed on injured reserve.
Kyle Hix T August 8, 2011 undisclosed IR August 1, 2012
Comments: The Patriots have placed Hix on injured reserve.
Dan Koppen C September 21, 2011 fibula IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Koppen was placed on injured reserve with a fractured left ankle and fibula.
Rich Ohrnberger G September 3, 2011 IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Ohrnberger was placed on injured reserve Saturday.
Myron Pryor DT September 21, 2011 shoulder IR August 1, 2012
Comments: The Patriots placed Pryor on IR, ending his season.
Jeff Tarpinian LB November 24, 2011 head IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Tarpinian has landed on injured reserve with a head injury.
Mike Wright DE October 13, 2011 concussion IR September 1, 2012
Comments: The Patriots placed Wright on IR with a concussion.
NEW YORK GIANTS
Player Pos Date Injury Status Expected Return
Stacy Andrews T December 7, 2011 illness IR August 1, 2012
Comments: The New York Giants have placed offensive tackle Stacy Andrews on injured reserve with blood clots in both lungs and signed Tony Ugoh to fill the roster spot.
Marvin Austin DT August 30, 2011 torn pectoral IR September 1, 2012
Comments: Austin was put on IR with a torn pectoral muscle.
Will Beatty T November 30, 2011 eye IR August 1, 2012
Comments: New York Giants left tackle Will Beatty is scheduled to have surgery on Thanksgiving to repair a detached retina in his right eye. The Giants disclosed the injury late Wednesday afternoon, saying there is no timetable for Beatty’s return. He has started at left tackle all season.
Michael Clayton WR November 26, 2011 knee IR August 1, 2012
Comments: The New York Giants have placed wide receiver Michael Clayton on injured reserve and re-signed defensive end Justin Trattou from their practice squad.
Michael Coe CB November 23, 2011 shoulder IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Coe has been placed on injured reserve and will miss the rest of the season
Jonathan Goff LB September 10, 2011 knee IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Goff will miss the season with a torn anterior cruciate ligament.
Domenik Hixon WR September 23, 2011 torn right ACL IR September 1, 2012
Comments: Hixon will miss the rest of the season after tearing the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee for the second straight year. Surgery is planned in the near future.
Bruce Johnson CB August 6, 2011 Achilles IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Johnson was placed on IR with an Achilles’ injury.
Martin Parker DT August 5, 2011 leg IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Martin is done for the season because of a leg injury.
Clint Sintim LB September 2, 2011 torn patellar tendon IR August 1, 2012
Comments: A day after suffering a major knee injury in the preseason finale, Sintim has been placed on injured reserve by the New York Giants.
Terrell Thomas CB August 23, 2011 torn right ACL IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Thomas is probably going to miss the season after suffering a major injury to his right knee in the closing seconds of a first half preseason game against the Chicago Bears. Thomas was hurt with 22 seconds left in the half when it appeared that Jason Pierre-Paul hit him from the side on a pass play.
Justin Tryon CB October 31, 2011 arm IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Tryon is on IR with an arm injury.
Brian Witherspoon CB August 24, 2011 torn ACL IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Witherspoon was placed on IR with a torn ACL.
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
Player Pos Date Injury Status Expected Return
Dontavia Bogan WR August 7, 2011 torn right ACL IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Bogan is out for the year with a torn right ACL.
Nate Byham TE September 3, 2011 torn ACL IR August 1, 2012
Comments: San Francisco placed Byham on injured reserve Saturday with a season-ending knee injury.
Curtis Holcomb CB August 7, 2011 ruptured Achilles tendon IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Holcomb is out for the season with a ruptured Achilles tendon.
Josh Morgan WR October 12, 2011 broken leg IR September 2, 2012
Comments: Morgan is done for the season with a broken bone in his lower right leg.
Will Tukuafu DT October 4, 2011 IR September 1, 2012
Comments: The San Francisco 49ers have placed Tukuafu on the season-ending injured reserve list with a wrist injury.
And the Bills
BUFFALO BILLS
Player Pos Date Injury Status Expected Return
Mike Caussin TE December 27, 2011 knee IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Caussin (right knee) was hurt in a 40-14 win over Denver on Saturday. He is done for the season and will probably need surgery.
Jon Corto S September 4, 2011 shoulder IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Conto was placed on the IR because of a shoulder injury.
Marcus Easley WR September 13, 2011 illness IR September 1, 2012
Comments: Easley was placed on injured reserve with an undisclosed illness.
Bruce Hall RB September 3, 2011 IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Running back Bruce Hall was placed on injured reserve by the Bills.
Fred Jackson RB November 23, 2011 fractured fibula IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Jackson will miss the rest of the year with a broken bone in his lower right leg, an injury that could derail Buffalo’s once-promising season.
Donald Jones WR November 22, 2011 left ankle IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Jones has been placed on season-ending injured reserve.
Rian Lindell K December 8, 2011 shoulder IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Lindell’s season is over after the 12-year veteran was placed on injured reserve a month after breaking a bone in his right shoulder.
Terrence McGee CB November 22, 2011 left knee IR September 9, 2012
Comments: McGee has been placed on season-ending injured reserve.
Shawne Merriman LB October 25, 2011 Achilles IR September 1, 2012
Comments: Merriman’s disappointing season is over because of a right Achille’ tendon injury.
Roscoe Parrish WR September 20, 2011 left ankle IR September 1, 2012
Comments: Parrish’s season is over after the Buffalo Bills placed the receiver on injured reserve Tuesday, two days after he hurt his left ankle.
Dave Rayner K December 28, 2011 groin IR September 9, 2012
Comments: The Buffalo Bills are on their third kicker this season after signing Brandon Coutu and placing Dave Rayner on injured reserve. The moves were made Wednesday as the Bills (6-9) prepare to close their season at New England (12-3) on Sunday.
Brad Smith WR December 29, 2011 hamstring Day-to-Day September 9, 2012
Comments: Bills receiver Brad Smith is unlikely to play in Buffalo’s season finale at New England after missing his second straight practice because of a hamstring injury.
Lee Smith TE December 20, 2011 left ankle IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Buffalo Bills tight end Lee Smith has been placed on injured reserve after the undrafted rookie free agent hurt his left ankle last weekend. Tight end Kevin Brock was promoted from Buffalo’s practice squad to replace Smith.
Reggie Torbor LB August 25, 2011 shoulder IR August 1, 2012
Comments: Torbor was placed on injured reserve with a shoulder injury.
Torell Troup NT November 30, 2011 back IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Buffalo Bills defensive lineman Torell Troup has told The Associated Press he will have surgery within the next two weeks to repair a “minor fracture” in his spine.
Chris White LB November 15, 2011 knee IR July 1, 2012
Comments: White was placed on injured reserve with a torn ACL.
Kyle Williams NT November 8, 2011 left foot IR July 1, 2012
Comments: Williams is on injured reserve.
Eric Wood C November 15, 2011 torn right ACL IR September 9, 2012
Comments: Wood will miss the rest of the season after tearing a ligament in his right knee.
Apologize for the funky formatting’
Link:http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/injuries/
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
by mob16151 on Jan 20, 2012 12:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
draw your own conclusions
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
2 different explanations
One is that the Bills like to use IR to take moderately injured players off the roster so they can give extended tryouts to other prospects. They did this last year to grab Erik Pears and Scott Chandler, and this year picked up Fendi Onobun and a couple other prospects. Mike Caussin, Rian Lindell, and Lee Smith were examples of that kind of “strategic IR” that the Nix regime has made an art.
However, the other explanation is that the Bills simply were not healthy at all this year. When we had all our pieces in the first four weeks, things clicked great. But we had to start a 3rd string LT and a 4th string C at different points in the season, and when you have a C who can’t even consistently snap the ball, you have major trouble.
Marcus Easley, Fred Jackson, Donald Jones, Rian Lindell, Terrence McGee, Shawne Merriman, Roscoe Parrish, Kyle Williams, and Eric Wood all missed major time this season. If you count the three WR’s as 1.5 starters, you end up with 7.5/25 starters missing many games and ending the season on IR. That is not the way to build a successful Super Bowl run.
(thanks to mob16151 for the data)
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
*AGREED*
The excuses are pathetic by nature, but the excuse of injuries in pro football is the most pathetic excuse of all.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 20, 2012 8:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's a great battle cry
But…
Exhibit A – Indianapolis Colts.
Defense rests.
I had a drink the other day
Opinions were like kittens
I was giving them away
-Modest Mouse
by oompaloompa on Jan 20, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And if you “build” a team where ONE 35-year old player’s injury drops you from perennial Super Bowl contender to flirting with 0-16, everybody loses their jobs because you never built anything in the first place. Excuses are indeed, pathetic and it’s not surprising that the most pathetic franchise in the NFL floats this particular excuse out there so much.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
I personally would rather “build” a team where one 35 year old player drops and we’re flirting with 0-16, then what we’re doing because i feel like they have had a ton more success than we have recently. For the Colts those aren’t excuses there reasons.
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard" -Norm Nixon
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
I was just having a bit of fun, but I’m with Chewey. Peyton’s injury IS the reason they aren’t competing.
Take the injury thing away, and what we’re talking about is “who is actually playing the game?” Its whoever takes the field, whether its because they’re the only scrubs left standing on an injury depleted roster, or because the front office can’t put a team together to save their jobs. BUT, the injuries, as Indy this year proves, can be a reason why a team can’t compete.
This does not mean injuries are why the Bills stunk the joint up this year. It very well could be a reason.
I had a drink the other day
Opinions were like kittens
I was giving them away
-Modest Mouse
I think Gailey.....
Was the one going on about injuries. He and nix have stated Fitzy would have played better if not for his teammates injuries. I don’t buy it because the wheels fell off the offense in week four.
If they said Fitzy was playing with too much pain at that time or Stevie’s hamstring really limited him from weeks four through….. Say 12. Then maybe, I could understand. But they didn’t say that. And if they did, I’d say what are we doing going into a season with one quality receiver?
I hope Gailey and Fitz are right and that Fitz can become consistent but put me in the worried category on this topic.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
The wheels came off in week 4? What? A 24-21 loss doesn’t mean the team “fell apart”. If so, they got put back on in week 5.
It’s a lot easier to bounce-back from a loss if the offense and defense aren’t losing key starters.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fitzpatrick......
Did not play very well…. It was the beginning of his slide.
He stood in one spot, held onto the ball, locked onto receivers and then threw crazy passes.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Jan 20, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
And.....
What key starters did we lose in week 4,5, 6 or 7?
If you take fitzy’s first three games away, I feel sure his stats would be pretty scary.
I wanted to believe he could be the guy and after three weeks I thought he might be able to play even better. But then….. Scary inconsistencies. I ask my season ticket holding friends if receivers are open and they said yes, particularly Stevie (they said Fitzy should have hit way more plays)
Like I said, I hope he comes back next year with a vengeance, but as I have stated on other posts, I fear his throwing motion and the fact that he has to throw too many passes as hard as he can (at least, that is the way it looks to me) allows for too many things to go wrong on a throw and also causes high strain injuries (and other injuries) that are highly magnified because he needs everything to throw well.
Just sayin’
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Jan 20, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
We went 2-2 in that timeframe and Fitz played pretty well in two of those game. As far as injuries,
I think its simplistic to say he had a subpar game in week 4 and therefore any subpar performance after that was entirely unrelated to injury. As the defense gets worse, there is more pressure on the QB, as the wideouts and o-line changed almost every week, its harder to make week-to-week improvements and adjustments.
As to injuries during this time period they were already piling up. Merriman, Bell, both A. Williams and K.Williams, Kelsay, Jones, Troup, Hairston, all missed games. Most of them multiple games during this stretch. Recall, Kyle Williams was sitting long before the IR’ed him.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My personal opinion on whether ot not injuries affected the Bills play is
that it’s an unknown,unknown. We simply don’t have enough data.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Yep
Were missing data and talent deadly combo!
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 20, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
We can say its not an excuse, but the reality is we got unlucky with some key injuries. So reject it for philosophical reasons if you want because excuses are unacceptable or whatever tough talk you wanna make, but they still can be an important factor in how the team performs — particuarly a young team. I’m not sure how you can look at our injury list and say it didn’t impact our ability to perform.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 11:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
"I’m not sure how you can look at our injury list and say it didn’t impact our ability to perform."
I did, though:
“Injuries were definitely a part of our suckitude, but I would argue, vehemently, that they were not the main cause.”
The post that followed yours though, seem to take the extreme conclusion in the other direction. Thats what I was generally commenting on.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
no worries, it was confusing. I think injuries were a big piece (but not the only piece).
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Impact
Yeah but isn’t quite obvious that injuries effect all teams , good or bad nobody cares to hear excuses. We are probably most unlucky team in alot of aways, injuries are just one of them.:) I could interject that subpar players get hurt more often trying to overcome lack of talent versus opponents, just another theory in a list of excuses.
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 20, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Subpar players like Williams, Wood, Jackson, Merriman…? I agree our depth players may be more likely to get hurt, but these top starters aren’t getting hurt because they are overmatched (IMO).
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 21, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Injuries exposed our lack of depth
We have talented starters – there is no question about that. But we lack depth… what positions lack depth?
Last Year:
QB
WR
TE
OT
DT
OLB
CB
S
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 20, 2012 11:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Some of this was the clustering of injuries at particular positions. I don’t think our OT depth, DT depth, or WR depth were particularly bad, but we either lost multiple guys (which many teams can’t overcome), or we lost a top notch guy (Williams). I mean if Fred and Spiller get injured does that mean we lack RB depth? Or does it just mean we need to seek some righteous forgiveness because no matter what we’d be doomed?
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
In 2010, Houston Texans lost starting RB and backup RB....
YES it does. Your entire NFL team must be players that can play. Houston Texans lost 3 RB’s in 2010 and still fielded great RB play…
Houston Texans RB injury list from 2010:
August – Ben Tate – placed on IR
September – Steve Slaton – injured
October – Justin Griffith – placed on IR
Their 3rd string RB? A guy named Arian Foster…
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 20, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Ha, is that about the talent of their running backs? Or their o-line? Even if its their running backs, this is an EXTREME example. We I say we lack depth, its compared to an average or even good NFL team. Most teams don’t have this depth (or if they do, they don’t know it yet and they get lucky).
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it posted before I could finish it:
QB – thankfully Fitz didn’t get hurt…
WR – Parrish, Jones, Evans and Easley all hurt or traded. Any team loses 4 WR’s will struggle for depth
TE – Chandler, Smith both hurt. Behind Chandler, no real TE depth.
OT – Hairston and Bell hurt. Losing starting LT and backup LT will hurt nearly ALL NFL teams.
DT – Starting DT Williams and backup DT Troup both hurt. Only by God’s graces did we have Dareus… I shutter to think what it would have been without Dareus
OLB – Starting OLB Merriman on IR. No depth behind him
CB – Starting CB McGee on IR and backup CB Williams injured. McKelvin not up to task for starting CB…. Lack of depth.
SS – Starting SS Wilson injured. Searcy not adequate depth due to lack of experience.
K – Starting K on IR and backup K on IR. No depth.
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 20, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha
Okay I guess now it makes more sense.
The only thing I’d now note is kicker isn’t a position any team keeps for depth. The depth of any team’s kicker spot is only as good as the best guy sitting on his couch somewhere.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
wait Safety lacks depth??
Byrd, Wilson, Scott, Searcy seem pretty good to me
You are now Watching The Throne.
couldnt disagree more
We still had players in key positions.
No we didnt. We lost for extended periods:
Starting LT, Backup LT, No.2 WR, No.3 WR, Starting SS, No.1 CB, No.2 CB, Starting NT, Starting OLB, Other Starting OLB, Starting RB, Starting C, Starting K and then we had our best offensive lineman being shifted around to 3 different positions during the middle of the collapse.
When you play a 3-4 and your pass rush comes from the OLB spot losing both will kill your pass defense. When you lose your starting corners on top of that you don’t have a pass defense. When you play a timing offense and you lose your no.2 guy and your speedy no.3 its going to throw you off and how can you play the CJ Spiller card when Fred Jackson was a possible MVP candidate and he went down for the year. People gave up on CJ Spiller too early just like they gave up on Jairus Byrd too early (when he never even had a bad year) and so because we played well we act like hes God’s gift to the Bills. The film doesnt lie, Fred Jackson was head and shoulders the most important player on this team and was easily one of the top 10 players in the entire NFL – no running back since Thurman Thomas was running the ball like he did here so you can’t downplay his lose. Throw in that Stevie Johnson was hobbled almost the entire year. We lost one of the best interior lineman in all of football – yes, Kyle Williams was PFF’s defensive player of the year last year and he was a Pro Bowler and you force a rookie to move inside and become the defense’s centerpiece that s going to hurt your run defense and your ability to collapse a pocket which further exacerbates the problem of losing your OLBs. We lost our kicker for the love of God!
I think to not blame injury as the main factor in our collapse is an attempt to justify what happened into something that wasn’t outside the Bills control. When a team on the rise, that is young, inexperienced, lacks depth and is already shaky on defense loses the best player at each level of the defense in Kyle Williams, Shawne Merriman and George Wilson and then loses its best player on the offensive side in Fred Jackson along with both LTs and half its stable of WRs its just insane to me not to understand that injury was the major factor.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 20, 2012 1:50 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Rec'd.
Wow. I think you crawled inside my brain. I was going to post something very similar.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 20, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
But c'mon Poz
Every position can’t be a key position (LT, Backup LT, WR2, WR3, SS, CB1&2, NT, OLB1&2, RB, C, K (?!).
Now I realize every position is important, but I used the word “key” as a special designation. We had our starting QB and #1WR the whole season. And yes, we had a good RB pretty much the whole season. (In his six games as starter, Spiller scored 5 TDs and averaged 89 all-purpose yards a game despite getting not nearly as many carries as his performances merited.) And yes, we lost an LT, but we had a serviceable replacement in Hairston. And when Hairston went down, Levitre performed well, too. These injuries of course hurt, but I think they were far from the leading cause of our demise.
And yes we lost important positions on defense too (OLB and CB), but McGee and Merriman are injury prone. We shouldn’t get upset when our ‘87 Dodge Aries constantly breaks down—that’s its nature, that’s what it’s good at. And going down with injuries is what Merriman and McGee do—so I wouldn’t call us “unlucky” that such players got injured at all.
We had shoddy players and poor depth. Yet it seems you mean to imply that the offense might have been far better off if we hadn’t lost Donald Jones (who wouldn’t be starting on most any other team in the NFL) and Roscoe Parrish (who can’t complete half a season).
We stink. And I don’t think it had anything to do with “unluckiness,” which is, according to some, synonymous with having injuries. I think we probably would have been almost as bad as we were even if our injuries more closely reflected the league average.
people seem to want to believe the bills are horrible
and struggle to imagine them being good.
the only way to end this blind hatred of buffalo
coaching and management is to win, year in
and year out.
this seems to be a no brainer: some teams have
the talent level to recover from injuries, and some
teams do not.
but it is also coaching, and we fired the defensive
coordinator.
if this happens next yr, it should be the head coach.
people seem to want to believe the bills are horrible
and struggle to imagine them being good.
isn’t it a struggle to imagine them being good? what has happened that makes you think this team has turned the corner after 12 years of futility?
the only way to end this blind hatred of buffalo
coaching and management is to win, year in
and year out.
how about win one year, or 2 out of 4 years or something like that – this team has given fans nothing to make us feel they are competent at this point.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 21, 2012 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Like usual, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
Part of the Bills’ problem is that they were just asking for injuries. Shawne Merriman, Terrence McGee, Roscoe Parrish, those guys just can’t be trusted to stay on the field. You actually have to expect them to miss a huge portion of the season. It’s not bad luck when those guys go down, it’s the inevitable happening.
Losing Kyle Williams was a major blow to this team and had a big impact on the season. It’s one thing to lose role players, it’s another to lose a Pro Bowl type player.
IMO, injuries were not the reason that this team collapsed. When they got their butts kicked at home against the Jets in week 9, they were still fairly healthy. If you consider Merriman and Parrish as players who you can’t trust to stay healthy enough to play past the bye week, then Buffalo was only down Williams and a handful of players. They did have bad luck with two of those players being OTs and having to shuffle Levitre over to LT, but that’s still four healthy starters along the OL which is pretty standard for that part of the season. The only other injured players were a 2nd round rookie, Kelsay and some back-up types like Troup. That’s not enough injuries for it to be an excuse as to why the Bills were so bad against the Jets.
The next week, the Bills were in the same spot only Lindell was out and Hairston was back. The Bills’ pathetic performance against Dallas wasn’t injury caused. It was a team falling apart. And then the injuries piled up with stars like Wood and Jackson going down and made it impossible for the Bills to recover and make a push towards 8-8. The real question is whether or not Buffalo bounces back against Miami with a healthier team and a less embarrassing Dallas loss the week before or whether that slide was the inevitable up and down of a Fitz led team.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
by kaisertown on Jan 20, 2012 2:58 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
IMO, injuries were not the reason that this team collapsed.
They weren’t – they weren’t built for success because they weren’t winning with fundamentals. Consider the fact that the Bills didn’t win 1 game without getting at least 2 turnovers. They won only 2 games when they had 2 turnovers out of 4 chances as well. The Bills needed 3+ turnovers to win consistently and that’s not how you win games (save for 49’ers this year I suppose).
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 20, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
So the reason the team collapsed is they got fewer turnovers… isn’t that like saying the reasons the team collapsed is they started playing worse? or the reason the team collapsed is they converted less in the redzone? or the reason the team collapsed is they couldnt possess the ball?
What you are describing isn’t a cause its an effect of something going on. Now it may be you are arguing that turnovers are random and nothing the defense was doing was generating them. And by consequence, the only thing that matters is turnovers. So when our luck ran out so did our wins.
But all sorts of things got worse, including redzone efficiency, which also impacted our scoring and winning. And from watching the games, my opinion is many turnovers were from at least applying some discomfort to QBs. As the secondary and starting OLBs went down what little pressure we were generating vanished and we started to get picked apart and not getting turnovers…
Don’t get focused on one stat that looks perfectly correlated with wins and losses. It just means its correlated not that its the only thing that matters.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the team “collapsed” – I don’t think they were that good to begin with. We saw this back in 2007 – they weren’t winning with fundamentals and once teams stopped turning the ball over against us we couldn’t do anything against them.
I think there was a direct correlation between us not getting turnovers and us losing – our team simply isn’t good enough to win consistently with fundamentals. Which is why we went on a massive losing streak.
I also think that the 12th man at the Ralph played a major part of us winning – the team was feeding off emotion and playing lights out. There’s a reason why they call it home-field advantage.
I think those 2 things combined played a major part in our early success – not fundamental football.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 20, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Semantics. Fundamentals get worse as key players get injured. So even if we don’t think they “collapsed” they can be a big reason why the team got worse across a number of categories, including turnovers.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 20, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think its semantics at all – this is not a good football team fundamentally and that’s why they consistently lose
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 20, 2012 6:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'd say it's talent more than fundamentals myself.
We could bring the most fundamentally sound college team in and they’d lose 9 out of 10 times to the most undisciplined NFL team.
As Jerry Sullivan likes to say “talent trumps all in the NFL” (paraphrasing)
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
sullivan says.........
so many different things at so many different times…..
he is not is an astute observer of nfl football….
polemicist yes, analyst, not much……
We could bring the most fundamentally sound college team in and they’d lose 9 out of 10 times to the most undisciplined NFL team.
when I say fundamentals i’m not talking about blocking and tackling specifically – i’m talking about us being good in phases of the game in which teams must account for us in. Such as teams cannot stop our run game or our run defense is excellent or our pass offense or pass defense is excellent.
we don’t do anything consistently good – we are not fundamentally good in any area as a football team
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 21, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well we move the ball on the ground well
top half of the league in rush yards per game.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
I think Wood and Urbik are creeping into the McGee, Bell, Merriman, Parrish group where you have to just admit that they’re injury-prone and plan as if they will not finish a season.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 20, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
2011 Houston Texans
They lost their…
1. First and Second String QBs
2. Their Pro Bowl RB was out the first couple games of the year
3. Their Pro Bowl WR was out most of the year
4. One of their best OLBs was put was put on IR
They still made the playoffs and won a game (albeit against the Bengals). Thats more than we can say around here. Injuries happen to all teams. The Texans lost a good number of their best players and they overcame the injuries. They switched schemes on D and didnt use the excuse that they need some time to adapt to the new scheme. Did the injuries hurt the Bills? Sure they did, but I believe that they were blown out of proportion. Did we really miss the likes of Reggie Torbor, Jon Corto, Chris White, Bruce Hall, etc. In my opinion, the bottom line is that the good teams overcome adversity, the bad teams make excuses. Unfortunately the Bills are a bad team.
Yeah but...
The strength of the Texans has shifted from their Offense to their Defense. With the arrival of Wade Philips they became a much better defensive team. The loss of Mario Williams was offset with the drafting of JJ Watt. So they won those games and got into the playoffs off of the strength of their team, their defense.
Can anyone really say what is the strength of our team? I think it is Special Teams, but they win by default.
If you say it is the Offense, they we have good reason for losing games when Fredex (who is our best offensive player) goes down.
Hopefully this year with the Stache at DC our defense becomes respectable again.
Houston’s offense was ranked #12 overall in the NFL. They were still able to produce with the injuries that they sustained. It would have been a lot higher if Schaub, Johnson and Foster didnt miss so many games. They were able to overcome injuries to their QB and best receiver. If Fitz and Stevie went down, the Bills offense would have been about as productive as the US Congress. I never once heard anybody in Houston’s front office use injuries as an excuse. However, Buddy sure took that crutch and used it.
by MarkyMarkO on Jan 20, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also,
The Texans have been “rebuilding” for years. Last season was only Chix’s 2nd year, which is understandable why they lacked the necessary depth to make it through the amount of injuries that occured.. I think that if this was their third season however it would be a different story.
*Be Smart, But Don't Ever Back Down* ~Chan Gailey
they also got lucky with their division this yr.
alot of what happens in sports is Momentum-based.
it cannot be explained with some simplistic formula.
teams are emotional beings.
look at the sabres, lucic’s hit destroyed their emotional
fabric, and the injuries are partly a reflection of their
emotional fragility.
the way the bills players went down in miami and dallas
made me think emotional states make players vulnerable
to getting hurt.
one of the reasons why it is not possible to play 1/2 speed.
too risky…..
it is all part of a holistic process….
feedback mechanisms out the wazoo….
bills get better, coaching gets better, talent gets better,
the fit between players and coaches gets tighter, they
recover from losses to key players better.
and the emotional fabric of the team binds despite the
loss of key players…..
I wonder if the impact of the injuries is magnified..
due to the depth on our roster being mostly filled with young players with significant upside. I think that helps find diamonds in the rough when an injury happens and players get opportunity, but it can be a huge problem. Players like Dotson and Batten backfired and were huge liabilities IMO.
More veteran teams have less experimentation and more proven backups – so injuries aren’t as devastating.
I Think Of It Like This
Imagine you were living your life paycheck to paycheck, and you had little to no savings. Then your boss gives you a raise and you can put money in the bank. It isn’t much, but it is enough to finally get back on your feet…
One day you have to go the hospital because of a broken leg and rack up big medical bills…
The end result is that you end up right back where you started financially. If you had more money in the bank you could have avoided it, but without the injury you would have been more than fine…
So….
The Bills were starting to put a roster together, but injuries decimated that talent that had been accumulated. They had little depth, so basically we were right back where we started. The moral is that we need more depth, but things wouldn’t have been so bad without all the injuries.
Injuries
I’ve been a bills fan for 28 years.I will bleed Bills colors until they put me in the ground,…but…we went on a skid for numerous reasons.Not just 1 or 2.Injuries played a part,coaching calls played a part,our Qb’s mental toughness played a part,as well as his physcial abilites.I like Fitz,but,he lost players,confidence,and didnt have a coach who could coach him out of it.Hell,the only improvement I saw,was after Jim Kelly talked to him on the sidelines against Miami.We will make the playoffs in 2012.Based on what this team learned,a few good draft picks,and,also fA.Relax Bills fans,we are closer than ever.Maybe someone should grab Mr.Kelly a headset,and,a vest next time.Lol.He can coach my team ANYday.
You start to stink because of injuries when you have a lack of deep talent. The Bills simply don’t have a lot of solid talent behind a lot of positions because of multiple blown drafts and the decade of constant change. Successful and deep talented teams have consistency in the organization. Pats? Check. Steelers? Check. Packers? Check. Indy? ok here you can make an argument, but they have had stability at coach and GM. Giants? Likely going to see minimal major changes with these guys.
Continue to draft well and build and the “injury bug” will be less of a factor. Its a major issue on mediocre and bad teams. On good teams it is less of a factor but still an issue.
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