Buffalo Bills Fire George Edwards; Name Dave Wannstedt New Defensive Coordinator
In speaking with reporters on Monday afternoon, Buffalo Bills head coach Chan Gailey informed reporters that he'd fired defensive coordinator George Edwards - and that Dave Wannstedt, last year the team's Assistant Head Coach and Inside Linebackers Coach, will take over Edwards' duties.
Edwards had been the Bills' defensive coordinator for two years, in which time frame his defenses were generally terrible. In 2010, the Bills had the No. 24 defense in the league, but the worst run defense, which surrendered 170 yards on the ground per game. The Bills shaved 30 yards off of that average in 2011, but still ranked near the bottom of the league in every defensive category. They gave up 27 points per game in both seasons.
The promotion of Wannstedt is one that fans have seen coming since Wannstedt's hiring a year ago. The real question moving forward is what scheme the team will use; GM Buddy Nix has been adamant for two years that he's in the business of acquiring 3-4 personnel, but Wannstedt has exclusively coached the 4-3 in over 16 years in the NFL. That question will be one of the more prominent story lines to follow as the Bills enter yet another off-season of change.
640 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Bills fire George Edwards.
Jets retain Brian Schottenheimer.
A very good day.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 14 recs
LOL...rec'd
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
And they’re stuck with dirty Sanchez as their QB. Next year has alot of promise. Pretty sure I say that every year though.
by ManitobaBillsFan on Jan 2, 2012 4:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it could be worse
You could proclaim the Bills as the Super Bowl favorite every year like Rex Ryan does with the Jets.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It could be worse.
You could have the longest playoff drought in the NFL.
Limited time only! Spend $50 & get free S/H w/ code "SHIPFREEUS"
yeah great day cheering a man losing his job...
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 4:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
easy Mr. Glasshouse
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
he's the scapegoat...that's all this is.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
sure.....but it might also be that he wasn't a good DC too
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
How do you know that? How do you know that it wasn’t something else? Could it be the players? Could it be the strength and conditioning people? How do you know?
I don't and either does anyone else on this board
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
oh I could tell you what the problem is...but that's a different discussion than this.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, I know....and when that happens we all know what that means....Kelly to the rescue, right?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Is the owner on the field executing the game plan? Is he in the meeting rooms drawing up the game plan?
Is his name Jerry jones?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he's the one hiring people not fit to run his team....over and over again....
He’s the one constant.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Wasn’t he also the one who hired John Butler, etc? And weren’t they the ones responsible for the Super Bowl appearances? It goes both ways. He is also the whole reason why there is a team in Buffalo. And be careful what you ask for. There is no guarantee that another owner will be better.
sure he gets credit for the good....that was 20 years ago though...
You can choose to live in the past if you want…I’m looking at now and towards the future.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Now let me ask you something. The people that he has hired, did they have success in other places or were they relative unknowns with no coaching/management experience at all?
Which people are you talking about? Russ Brandon, Buddy Nix? Or are you talking about the coaches?
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Everyone had some levels of success at prior places otherwise they wouldn't have been available...
But if that’s the case why was Wade freaking Philips the last coach to have any real success as coach of this team? Why have the Bills not had a game in the playoffs since Bill Clinton was in office?
Something is seriously wrong with that picture….not to mention this isn’t the first time the Bills have had a winning drought of this magnitude…I’m pretty familiar with my Bills history….other than the early 90s and mid 60s this team has been pretty damn pathetic
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pegula bought the Sabres and came in like a one man wrecking crew, how’s that working out right now? You could blame Buffalo and the weather as much as Ralph Wilson.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 6:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It will be fine soon.
Pegula bought the Sabres and came in like a one man wrecking crew, how’s that working out right now?
It’s season 1 for Pegula, Once Darcy is fired and replaced with a guy who actually knows what a goal scorer looks like in the draft the Sabres will be fine.
But Darcy has been using the excuse the state of the Sabres was due to Golisano’s spending limits, so Darcy got the open checkbook and typical Darcy…..
I predict if the Sabres don’t show some improvement this year over last year, Darcy is FINALLY Gone!!!!!!!!!
Because he will simply be out of excuses and then Pegula can get a GM who knows how to draft more than 1 40 goal scorer in over a decade.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 3, 2012 4:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pegula bought the Sabres and came in like a one man wrecking crew, how’s that working out right now? You could blame Buffalo and the weather as much as Ralph Wilson.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 6:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it's easy to know which direction to point as well
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I personally blame AP22 for the failures of this past season.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
guess I fit right in with the buffalo bills then.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well thank you for calling me a winner.
That’s really classy of you. :)
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You said that you fit in with the Buffalo Bills then. And I said no you don’t because neither one can be said about the Bills. The Bills haven’t been winning a lot. But I also haven’t heard them complain a lot either. You do complain. And I think you and a lot of Bills fans place the blame on people when none of us really know everything that is happening.
by AP22 on Jan 2, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
remember, when your pointing a finger at someone, 3 more are pointing back at you.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
you can keep clinging to that 90s window if you want...I'm looking at a much bigger picture here.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
John Butler?
The real key hiring for the Bills -
Bill Polian
enough said. The Bills current streak is a result of mismanagement, yes, but a lot of it is probability and bad luck. We will know more at the end of next season where this is all headed. The key to success is consistency from the top down, and the most consistent thing during the playoff drought has been inconsistency from the top down.
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
because
the defense was so inconsistent… the talent is there for them to perform well every week, inconsistent play is usually a sign of poor scheming/preparation
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
Well after calling the D Coordinator the scapegoat, I wouldn’t go and point the finger at the strength and conditioning people. Maybe Dick Jauron was a really good D backs coach, just couldn’t head coach his way out of a paper bag. It’s really weird – Jauron couldn’t get much from the safeties, but cornerback play was generally good. Now our safeties are generally sound and tackling is great, but the corners are shaky.
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
he wasn't exactly put into a great position to succeed either
Edwards wasn’t the problem with the team but yet he takes the fall….I realize it’s the nature of the business. I hope he has a good buyout clause or severance package coming.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I decided to join
this train rec
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
wooohooooooooooooo
hoooray
allright
awesome
happy days
merry christmas
happy new year
i love everybody!!!!
If you didn't see this coming
you weren’t paying attention. The defense was terrible all year.
Now it’s on Buddy Nix to get Dave some talent. If they stick with the 3-4, this team needs OLB’s like the desert needs rain. I think there is a good chance we go back to 4-3 with our players. Whatever it is, more talent is needed.
Deserts may need rain but they never get it.
"It’s like I’ve always said, don’t tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby."
- Buddy Nix
"How can a guy with a name like Melo be such a pain in the ass?"
- George Lopez
by dnvrBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s on them to get talent? Look at the players they’ve acquired for this D in the last two years. Edwards and Barnett via free agency. Drafting Carrington, Dareus, Williams, Sheppard, Moats, Batten, etc. Re-signing Florence, extending Kelsay, extending Merriman. They’ve acquired people who were either put into positions they weren’t ready for, or aren’t good at.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 2, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
no it takes time to develop the players you mentioned
they don’t just become great in one year, it takes about 3 years for rookies to fully develop. Edwards was a poor play caller, rarely blitzed, and thus got fired. The defense looked very vanilla all year. we still need more talent, but we need a more creative play caller.
You are now Watching The Throne.
That’s what I meant by put into positions they weren’t ready for. Some of these young guys weren’t very ready and I think the reason that schemes weren’t complicated is that Edwards was worried to be too aggressive with players who might not know exactly where they are supposed to be at certain points, etc.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 2, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
10 weeks too late.
But at least it was done…
Gailey also saying theyre discussing 4-3 vs 3-4
Come on Buffalo, please?
Very late indeed... Very happy here..
Buffalo Bills or Die.
This move makes sense but i have to wonder what Wannstedt will do as DC that he couldn’t suggest the team do in his assistant role. In the end it comes down to the players and if the team doesn’t improve in that area it won’t matter much either way.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Jan 2, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
agreed. rec'd
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Jan 2, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
play calling for one.....
and I am sure Dave was professional enough not to under cut Edwards.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I guess it is either an indictment of Edwards (maybe he just didn’t listen to or understand DW) or DW just didn’t have as much to add. We shall see.
Also I love the idea of calling him DW because it makes me think of this guy.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Jan 2, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Recd
Disney Afternoon
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
LOL.....rec'd
but I think you need to get “the stash” in the mix….how about DWS….DarkWingStach
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Better than DW=Darryl Waltrip!
"Fred Jackson has the power to run over linebackers and the agility to dance on their pancaked corpses." ...Munchausen
Tell me that’s a link to Darkwing Duck….
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Darkwing Duck??????
I thought it was a link to drunk women.com :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Lets. Get. DANGEROUS.
If Ryan Fitzpatrick does not take the Bills to the Big Game, ever, I will run through Harvard's campus wearing a Yale jersey. I am that sure. Or that crazy.
by Orlando John on Jan 2, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
this change should’ve happened weeks ago so they could truly assess whether Wannstedt would make a difference, that is, unless they’ve agreed to switch to 4-3 for next season which I guess does make sense but is a little frustrating considering the draft choices over the last 2 seasons.
Check out http://mocknfldrafts.blogspot.com/
by Billsdownunder on Jan 2, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
What good does it do to have a guy try to install an entirely new defensive playbook in the middle of the season?
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 2, 2012 9:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
did standing pat help???
I’ve been screaming for this move sine the second game of the season… Could we have done worse if the change was made then?
In the business world, it would be like me tolerating someone calling in sick repeatedly, because I don’t want to rock the boat, and replace he/she until I have someone else in place… Life, and football, doesn’t work that way..
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
Sometimes defenses take a while to gel. This one just happened to not gel very well, so in hindsight it seems as if it was the right move to make early in the season, but at the time it would have been rash.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Ha!!!!
I know the hindsight thing well…. But this does not qualify…. We had too much tape on this mess already from last year, and the continued early collapse after all the help added to the roster….
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
and then... wannstedt magically appears
and we start to move towards more 4 man fronts…
i am right there with you, on this particular point. all we did was waste a season on a guy we all knew wasn’t good enough.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
The 4 man front makes a lot of sense given that we have Kyle Williams, and Dareus developed pretty well on the interior of the line. We might get some Warren Sapp type production out of our tackles next year. Maybe Kelsay can move back to end…..
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
We had exactly one year of tape, and we drafted 5 players that got significant playing time on defense this year, and had a new assistant DC in Wanny. There was certainly a chance that this defense could have seen major improvement throughout the year.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
coulda, woulda, shoulda….. Didn’t.
you are right though. hopefully, though, you also are in agreement that now, we have more than enough evidence to accept GE’s dismissal. Chan and Nix may get more than 3 years, but they DON’T have eternity. : )
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I definitely agree that Edwards needed to go. A lot of the problem was lack of talent, but a good scheme that is designed to the strengths of the players can mask a lot of that. Edwards was not, it seems, able to do that.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Agreed…I don’t know what he’s going to do as DC that couldn’t have been done as AHC. He still has had his hand in this terrible defense, and even in the play calling over the last few weeks.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
HUZZAH!!!!
This will probably be the best move they make for the entire off-season.
by SiriusRed on Jan 2, 2012 3:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
File this under the "Seen that one coming from a mile away" folder....
Must have been strange for Edwards to work with a guy better suited for the job than he. Must have been awkward. Oh well. I like the move.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
Yay!!!
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 2, 2012 3:43 PM EST reply actions
Hopefully Buddy will have a discussion with Chan about how to properly use his “Waterbug” RB in conjunction with Freddy the monster, and limit the shotgun and 4/5 wides 80% of the game.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 2, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yay
2011 Colorado Avalanche - Dr. Jones can't suture this coaching wound.
The 2011 Buffalo Bills - Where we learn that signing a mediocre QB for 50+ Million dollars is just as good an idea as it sounds.
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the Colorado Rapids
Crystal Palace FC - We'll take mid-table, thank you.
Chan ge can be good.
I have no regrets on this, if they change from the 3-4 back to a base 4-3 I would be a little peeeeeed. I never liked that change to begin with, Frewell had a good head start with 4-3 personnel when Nix took over, the change at that time didn’t make sense, but I still bought it.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
fail
defense couldn’t get it done with him on staff. keep spinning those wheels OBD.
will we ever make the right moves??
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 3:48 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Yep. Let’s pass judgment the moment the move is made. Swell idea.
That defense we’ve watched for 32 games? That is not Dave Wannstedt’s defense.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
Follow @BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jan 2, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
he was on staff right? assistance head coach?
seems like he could have had some influence on this defense that was positive yet were still awful.
I disapprove because its internal hiring on an already bad defensive coaching staff. so are we 3-4 or 4-3? buddy said he’s drafting for 3-4 then hires a 4-3 dc that was on staff for one of the worst defenses the bills have fielded .
I’m very unimpressed
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 3:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Are you trying to say the ILB play didn’t improve this year under Wanny? I think it has dramatically. It helped that he had Barnett and Shep among others.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
kind of hard not to improve isn’t it? clearly better players make coaches look better – look no further than indy.
what I meant is he was on staff and our defense was still awful. its not like he was just an ilb coach he was an assistance hc which means he should have had more say
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
But he wasn’t designing the scheme. That’s the biggest part.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
well we’ve been in more 4-3 than 3-4 already haven’t we? I guess more nickel but I don’t see us in a 3-4 a ton
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Kyle Williams and Marcell Dareus
Now that you’ve seen both play tackle, do you really want to see either wasted as 3-4 defensive ends? In the 3-4 the DE is mostly there to seal the edge, a waste of Dareus and Williams. Now they will be free to blow up the inside!
Another season (maybe), another year getting on the roller coaster. Hope the ride lasts more than 16 games :)
he still should have had input in said scheme right. what works and what doesn’t?
this is such a typical OBD hiring.
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah… get a guy who would top most lists of available DC candidates with Spags and Mike Nolan…..
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Haters gonna hate.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 4:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Remember
Its wrong that we raid practice squads for players. But its perfectly okay to hire a DC who was just fired by another team.
Harooo
I know right. People will complain about everything and I mean everything under the sun. “The sky is blue. Ugghh.” “The Bills only hire old people. Ugghhh” “It is all the owner’s fault. He doesn’t spend money. Ugghh.” (And they ignore the past like the Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Posey, Bledsoe, and Milloy spending spree and the spending sprees by Daniel Snyder.) And also, “this 3-4 is …. . We need to switch to a 4-3.” Yet they don’t consider that we have been playing mostly a 4-3 the entire season.
Yet they don’t consider that we have been playing mostly a 4-3 the entire season.
And too many people think the T2 is the only form of 4-3. Never mind the recent 4-3 success Minnesota had before becoming too old, and the ongoing success of Chicago.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
did I say that?
can’t we look at coaches who are on successful defenses that haven’t been fired and interview them?
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
nope
we promoted Wannstedt. so now, it is too late for that.
oh…. was that the point? ; )
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
and what’s with this haters gonna hate crap. this move can easily, easily be debated as being a bad move.
we’ve been 3-4 for 2 years drafting and acquiring 3-4 players now we just ditch that effort? cool, glad we didn’t even try to interview anyone else.
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't get the haters crap either......and you know what
I am getting sick of having the same conversation year after year. Move over sireric….make a spot on the couch….I’m taking my pants off.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sweet. You bring the beer, I will bring the nachos.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Jan 2, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 2, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
done!!!!
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
taking your pants off?? Please don’t
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Its Joe
And its concievable, whats the ???
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
how is that true? he hasn’t been a good dc in what seems like forever.
he’s a name that fans recognized so OBD thinks fans will like it. yet it doesn’t fix fundamental issues – this is a band aid fix. now were switching scheme after 2 years when buddy said he will draft for the 3-4?
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
maybe
Part of his job over the last year was to learn as much as he could about running a 3-4.
Harooo
since when has OBD given a damn what the fans want?????
and when was it decided we are switching schemes???? And who cares as long as it isn’t the T2?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
since when has OBD given a damn what the fans want?
Dude I will use this site as proof that OBD shouldn’t care and should make their own independent decisions. There are some crazy fans around here. Of course now we just need OBD to prove that they are smart enough to consistently make the right moves.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Jan 2, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed....I just hope they make some better ones than they have in the past
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Well he interviewed for the Browns open DC spot. So I guess he was near the top of their list.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
you mean where Jauron ended up?
hahaha. good deal.
before you get upset… i understand your point… BUT… i mean… come on. we want IMPROVEMENT. not hard to accomplish given how terrible we were, but some new blood maybe wouldn’t have been the worst idea ever, i think is the sentiment.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Jauron has proven to be a good DC. It’s why he kept getting head coaching jobs.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
i know.
like i said though… interviewing for DC doesn’t inherently mean that he is the definitive answer. i think my, and probably J2’s issue is that we didn’t even attempt to find someone else. seems like a lazy solution.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I am sympathetic to this complaint. Even if you interview everyone and end up choosing Wannstedt, who may be a good choice because of what he knows and his experience, huge TBD in my book. There is something to be gained by bringing in candidates and hearing what they think. Pick their brains. Get an idea of what a variety of solutions might look like.
DW kept saying its too soon to know what he would do at all. And maybe he was simply being reserved in his prognosis, but requiring an interview requires a guy to tell Chan what he thinks the problems and solutions are and form some sort of intelligent plan, albeit preliminary. Maybe he’s done that and isn’t saying so (possible), but thats a benefit from an interview process — even if it results in choosing DW.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
like i said
on the ball today, my friend. hahaha
rec’d.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Well its good to know we don’t disagree about EVERYTHING :-) it just depends on the day of the week.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
hahaha
yeah, we don’t always see eye to eye, for sure. But, if you are gonna insist on making valid, intelligent points.. well, that is likely to change. ;0) haha. just kidding. seriously though, i am one hundred percent on your page today.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
The assistant head coach/ILB coach isn’t helping design scheme? That would strike me as odd.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 2, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
You said “helping”. I was much more definitive about it. It wasn’t his scheme. He doesn’t make the final call.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 3, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
so if the Bills choose to fire Nix and promote Whaley, would that be a bad move as well?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
well I happen to like the last 2 drafts so sure – not a fan of past 2 years defenses – are u?
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
not the point....the point was that all in house hirings are not a bad thing
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
some certainly are – I don’t get this move at all. seems very band-aid type of fix. its nonsense
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
why?
Edwards had no experience…..DWS has lots. He is clearly an upgrade. The Bills won’t be able to get someone better. We have to be realistic here…..DWS is the best we can do without going after another completely unknown who might be a bigger disaster than Edwards was. Is it a safer move, yes but CHIX are not big risk takers……it is what it is.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
because we’ve been drafting for a 3-4 so now because Edwards isn’t a good DC and the talent is lacking we’re just going to forget we’ve been drafting for a 3-4 and acquiring 3-4 players in FA.
this seems to me like “wannstedt is a name and is already on staff getting paid” type of move. not a do what you can to win move.
how about interview anyone else??
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't have minded if the hired someone else
But the fact they didn’t doesn’t mean DWS will do a bad job
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
But the fact they didn’t doesn’t mean DWS will do a bad job
of course it doesn’t – but this move seems very band aid like. Nix said we were drafting for a 3-4 and acquiring 3-4 players.
What is the long term plan? are we just going to keep changing systems and schemes when something goes wrong?
why can’t we just stick with something for a long period of time so the players actually “stack on top of eachother” over the years?
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With his experience in the 4-3 I actually think Wanny will scheme a better hybrid defense than Edwards was able to, so I don’t really think the scheme we’re trying to run really comes into play. Also, as has been stated to death on this site, we don’t play a true 3-4 or a 4-3, and 3-4 players are, in general, better equipped to play a 4-3 than the other way around.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Jan 2, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I going to rec this.....it seems so simple the way you said it,
but I am sure someone will try to make it more complicated
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
so even though Wannstedt has never coached a 3-4 save for OJT last year he’s going to be better at running it because a guy who knows how to run it is gone?
I know we don’t run a true 3-4 or 4-3 – my issue is we’ve been acquiring 3-4 players – while 3-4 are generally better equipped to play 4-3 that hasn’t been our plan. Is Nix going to go away from his forte of scouting 3-4 players?
If this plan doesn’t work out are we going to switch back?
I know all the positives – i’m more interested in the front offices philosophy. they are flip flopping.
For all I know Wannstedt could turn this team into a top 5 defense so that’s clearly not my issue.
My issue is that if something goes wrong they might be too quick to pull the plug. With Edwards and switching to Fitz that’s good but when you’ve been pouring resources into a scheme and philosophy and dump it because the DC wasn’t cutting it it seems very impetuous
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
that first sentence was in referral to the hybrid and having Edwards who has experience in a 3-4 helping scheme that hybrid
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I had to find somewhere to jump in here
I’m with you J2, internal hiring, without interviewing other candidates screams weakness. At least interview other guys then give the job to Wanny, don’t just hand him the clipboard and say go fix it. make him beat out other candidates. You know whats funny, we all think because a guy got fired he wasn’t doing his job, well bill Polian just got fired and I would say he did the best job out of any Head Office football guy. Firings happen becausepof circumstance , situation. Do I think Spags should have been fired in St. Louis, NO. Does Raheem Morris deserve to fired in Tampa, YES. There are different circumstances for for every team. We took the easy way out by firing Edwards and hiring Wanny, does that mean I think Wanny will do a bad job no, did the Bills do it the wrong way Yes!
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Jan 3, 2012 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
wow, i REC your post because you caught me at a disadvantage. I didn’t know the definition of impetuous and had to look it up. Well done.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
For all I know Wannstedt could turn this team into a top 5 defense so that’s clearly not my issue.
My issue is that if something goes wrong they might be too quick to pull the plug. With Edwards and switching to Fitz that’s good but when you’ve been pouring resources into a scheme and philosophy and dump it because the DC wasn’t cutting it it seems very impetuous
nuff said.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
that’s not enough said – people won’t see the move as impetuous because Wannstedt has been on the staff for a year.
but the lack of interviewing any candidates makes me think it is a rash decision – making a change just to make it
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
knee jerk reactions is the american way!!!
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
But I disagree, they hired DW to replace Edwards before they gettisoned Edwards. Well thought out, kinda Southern hospitality!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
even though Wannstedt has never coached a3-4hybrid save for OJT last year he’s going to be better at running it because a guy whoknows how tocould barely run it is gone?
Yes, I think that is true.
I agree with you that it seems strange to start scouting now for a 4-3 even though they’ve spent time scouting for 3-4, but I see no evidence that it will be the case. Yes, Wanny’s experience is in a 4-3, but just because he has that experience doesn’t mean the defensive philosophy overall is going to change. They haven’t announced that, and I have no idea that they’re going to do it, so why would you assume it?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear…the reason I think it’s true is that they’ve already established the 3-4, and have players for it, which is why I think that the 4-3 experience can help the hybrid scheme.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Agreed
Nothing else.
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
but just because he has that experience doesn’t mean the defensive philosophy overall is going to change.
http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2012/01/02/kelsay-on-possible-scheme-change/
Chris Brown is already addressing scheme change as a possibility – given WAnnstedts background doesn’t it seem likely?
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Considering
DW hasn’t even spoken to any of the players its still just speculation on Kelsays part.
Harooo
No, not to me, it doesn’t make any sense…like you said, they’ve been drafting for the 3-4 for two years now. Also, Kelsay just said “if they make the change, we’re going to try to pull it off”…he didn’t say for certain they’ll be a change, or even if he thought there would be, he just gave the stock player response.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
No
But doesn’t mean it won’t occur! This is the Bill’s!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
I really like this hiring J2
How much influence did you expect Wannstedt to have on this defense? You can’t have two defensive coordinators and a scheme and plan were already in place. The real reason for his hiring then was likely that Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey gained some serious doubts about George Edwards after his first year. Being their hire, they obviously believed he could be a good coach and gave him one more year. Bringing Wannstedt on board was a great way to hedge their bets. If Edwards rapidly improved they gave Wannstedt some exposure for another gig. If Edwards fell flat on his face, as he did, Wannstedt had a full year of practices, games, and communication with the players here – that is a huge leg up and difference maker than starting over with a new coach who doesnt know what hes got.
A lot of the players on this defense are young guys who will be staples here for years – Marcell Dareus, Jairus Byrd, Aaron Williams, Kelvin Sheppard, Kyle Williams. All of them were observed and tutored by their new defensive coordinator, thats great stuff.
I think it was a very shrewd move by the front office and I applaud Nix for it.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 2, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I think it was a veryshrewdlazy move by the front office and Iapplaudquestion Nix for it.
; )
i think that your view is valid. it MIGHT be accurate as far as “planning ahead” but it is certainly a “no-brainer” approach to a guy that isn’t a no-brainer. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be so much contention.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
haha, fair enough Real, fair enough
I can understand that perspective
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 3, 2012 4:38 AM EST up reply actions
I understand all of that Poz – my issue is with long term viability and the fact that they’ve been planning on running a 3-4 and now we run a 4-3.
He could succeed as far as I know but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t done haphazardly. I don’t like flip flopping regimes and it looks like that’s what were getting.
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
3-4 / 4-3 ?
Who cares? And aren’t we considered hybrid? Again who cares what you call D as long as it works! ?
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
right
so, like you said: maybe we should have picked one.
i said to a friend, and posted as well: “Hybrid” is the term you use, when you don’t have a freak at OLB. Any of the teams who employ a mostly 34 base, have a great pass rusher who can also cover, manning that pivotal position.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
also a good point
and right now, yes I agree, it doesnt look good to invest in a 3-4 and suddenly switch.
My only counterpoint would be to ask if Nix ever really did invest in a 3-4. We have no true OLBs who can pass rush effectively. Now is the perfect time to switch schemes, especially with Dareus and Kyle providing the chance for a dominant 4-3 DT duo.
The only real tangible investment Nix made in the 3-4 was the Shawn Merriman experiment and it wasnt that costly
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 3, 2012 4:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hiring?
Promotion maybe.
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
good correction
though it seems like his hire was made with the intention of the promotion being imminent if Edwards failed. But you are right, promotion is more accurate.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 3, 2012 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
That defense we’ve watched for 32 games? That is not Dave Wannstedt’s defense.
Nope. It was a transitioning defense, that never caught hold. Now, we ditch everything we have been doing, and revert? Sure, that MAY not be true… but it isn’t NOT true either.
So what we know right now, is that the guy who wasn’t getting the job done as DC is gone. That is it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
not so fast.....Dave W. has been a good DC in the past
I am sure this hire will be an upgrade. And let’s be honest, none of the big name guys where going to come here and risk their good reputation.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
let’s be honest, none of the big name guys where going to come here and risk their good reputation.
though you are probably right- doesn’t make it any less sad. We literally didn’t even TRY to land someone else, and we simply promoted him based off being “one of the boys” and I can’t say that I can fully support that either.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
So being on staff
for what a year makes him one of the boys? You think that maybe his hiring was so if they had to fired Edwards come this year they would have a guy familiar with they system and layers ready to step up?
Harooo
yep and didn't the Nix hiring follow a similar pattern?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
irrelevant.
Wannstedt worked with chan in pitt. that is what i was referencing.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
right
brain fart. i was thinking University of Pitt, and then Chan in Pitt….. blah blah crappy. you are right though. but that was what i meant, they had worked together before, thus the reason he was brought in now. not just one year of being on the staff, as Robot Nixon suggested.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Either way
Familiarity doesn’t equal favoritism. I am sure he through working for the same company Chan would have gained some insight on DW, enough that when the chance was there he hired him. Not sure how much they would have interacted being on opposite sides of all the ball but most people can see someone else do their job and know weather or not they are good it at.
Harooo
i didn't call it that.
you did. i am just saying, that we could have at least LOOKED elsewhere first… since Wanny was still under contract, and could be promoted at any point.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
i suppose
but, it is the reality. we didn’t even TRY to pursue someone outside of a known connection. that was the point. you can take it how you like.
familiarity doesn’t equal solution either. it just keeps a level of comfort, which, may not be better than at least CONSIDERING bringing in someone new.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Its not that I wholly disagree
Would have preferred them to do the due diligence this year. That said Chix may have well done that when they hired DW last year. It was pretty clear that Edwards wasn’t going to be the answer even then. Might be giving too much credit here, but hiring your DC’s replacement a year ahead of time doesn’t sound like a good idea.
Harooo
so are you saying he has forgotten how to coach defense?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I’m saying he hasnt been a dc in a Long time in the NFL. gailey hadn’t been a hc in the NFL in a long time either – how’s that working out for us?
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
about the same as having Nix as the GM
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
hmm
Not sure where you stand on Nix, but I think he is doing a solid job. He’s working within the guidelines he has from Ralph, so it might take a little longer than it would in a big market with unlimited resources ($$$). The roster is improving, the team is improving, and the Bills are in far better shape than they were when Nix arrived.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 4:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not a Nix fan so far
He has give dumb money to average players. I don’t like his first draft. I don’t like giving good players away for next to nothing. I don’t think he knows how to pick a QB
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he made an awesome move by not resigning Poz and picking up Barnett, he’s done a great job of piecing together an offensive line, picked up Chandler who looks viable, and while I’m not ecstatic with the first draft I think last years looks really good.
I’m torn on the QB issue. I don’t like Fitz at all, but the money isn’t terrible and they can dump him whenever they want. If deals were guarenteed like MLB I would be fuming.
I also question his ability to draft a QB. It is and will be the determining factor on whether or not this regime is successful, and it doesn’t look like they’re going to make a move going into year 3. This team needs a franchise QB in the worst way, I’m just praying they’re going to make a move for that guy instead of continuing to tread water at best. This is a quarterback league, and unless Tom Brady retires the Bills won’t pass the Patriots without one.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
not giving Poz dumb money did turn out to be a good move, but
it did come with some risk…..wasn’t Barnett consider injury prone? Will he be able to go another year without injury? Chandler looks good to Bills fans because the TE position has been horrid…..Chandler is an average TE. Dareus was a no brainer and the rest of that draft class have not proven they are better than average either.
Nix hasn’t done enough for me to approve of him yet.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am okay with non first round rookies coming in and playing average. That seems a huge leap forward from past drafts.
Harooo
I am OK with it too as long as they keep improving
If they do, I will give Nix his due on the 2011 draft, but he still has missed on the majority of the 2010 draft, etc
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
That Troup pick is looking awful. I thought Carrington had a lot of upside but he hasn’t shown much, either. They are doing an excellent job with undrafted guys and raiding practice squads, but that’s not going to get us to the playoffs.
Look at a team like the Giants. Victor Cruz looks like a world beater, and he wasn’t even going to make the team two years ago until he unloaded on the Jets. They don’t have any world beaters on the o-line, have a couple of good running backs (sound familiar yet) but they win games because Eli Manning is a legitimate franchise QB. Until the Bills get that guy, the team will fluctuate from average to bad. My problem is two-fold, even though I like (not love) what Nix has done.
1) They still haven’t drafted a franchise QB. That guy isn’t coming via free agency, and he is very unlikely to come by trade.
2) They aren’t set up to pick one this year at #10, and the QB class isn’t very good (in my opinion, one that doesn’t really matter). Luck is a surefire #1 selection whether the Colts stay or they trade it away. Is RG3 a NFL QB? I would’ve loved to make a run at Barkley, but he’s sticking it out with Kiffin. Who knows what they’ll do, but if they wait another year to draft a QB then we are still pushing off the most important need any team without a franchise QB has.
Sorry for such a long post. It has been a rough season, hopefully Nix makes some moves that get the Bills where they need to be.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 2, 2012 8:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That Troup pick is looking awful.
right – where do players like Troup play in a 4-3?
OBD is admitting failure by doing this and making players that they drafted 2 years about irrelevant.
From an organization standpoint I just don’t get it – plus it’s not like Wannstedt has had a steller career as a defensive coach.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
Troup plays DT obviously
if the question is, can he play DT? Absolutely. If the question is, where does he fit into the lineup? I would have liked a 2nd round pick to be a starter but he’ll be depth at this point. Not that is a bad thing but I don’t know many players in the NFL that can start above Kyle Williams and Marcell Dareus. He’s depth and hopefully very solid depth.
We could also have a big heavy penetrating 3-4 in Williams as a penetrating DE, Dareus as the other DE and Troup as our traditional nose tackle. If Troup can turn it around, that could very well be a better and more talented DL than the Ravens & Steelers.
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 2, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. I can’t see why he couldn’t make the transition to DT, unless he is injury prone.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
If im not mistaken
wanny has had a stellar career as a defensive coach
wasn’t Barnett consider injury prone?
It’s not like Pozluszny was Cal Ripken, Jr.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
true....so what bearing does that have on Barnett being an injury risk?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
They gave smart money instead of stupid money, to borrow your terminology. And it worked out for them very well, I might add.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
then what are we talking about....I simply pointed out there was some risk to the
Barnett signing.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
K. I just wanted to mention it was a smaller risk than Poz.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
isn’t that why they have a salary cap? Everyone has the same $$$ to work with for players.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know that?
What team in the NFL is looking at hiring a DC? The Eagles, thats about it. With guys like Jack Del Rio, Steve Spagnulo, Mike Nolan, Mike SIngletary, Raheem Morris all defensive minds all looking for work it’s basic economics when supply is more then demand you can get great value. The Bucs will hire another small name coach, The Dolphins will try hard to land a big fish, the Rams might go with McDaniels I mean really we are a perfect fit for a Head Coach type DC, Chan will give his new DC all the power in the world to make personell moves make decisions, Defense isn’t Chan, nor is it his specialty. I just think that we could have at leats interviewed guys for the job before we just hand over the job to someone already on staff.
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Jan 3, 2012 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
Many of the fired HCs listed above still will be drawing pay for next season, providing a disincentive to take another job.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 3, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Bout time
Now I hope they go back to the 4-3 and draft Quinton Coples. Coples, Dareus, and Williams would be one hell of a dline.
by NCblofan on Jan 2, 2012 3:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
drool
"THE WAGON BLASTER BELONG TO THE FANS TO THE BUFFALO NATION ONCE YOU ENTER THERE IS NO TURNING BACK WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER AND SERVE ALL AS ONE ENTITY THAT WILL CRUSH ALL OF DOES WHO COME TO OUR HOLLY KING DOME" - abayarde
by NotReadytoRock on Jan 2, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
No to coples
There are better 4/3 pass rushers out there than him
melvin ingram is my vote for a 4/3 3/4 guy
2011 author-mod pick'em -poz
I'll knock the bieber out of brady - arthur moats @dabody52
2011 -adopted offensive player roscoe parrish(IR) david nelson
2011-adopted defensive player arthur moats
by Gpluehri on Jan 2, 2012 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd be fine with either one of them
by NCblofan on Jan 2, 2012 4:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not big on Coples,
but Crick, Mercilus, and or Curry would be interesting DE prospects.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
How about
Kevin Reddick? The ILB from UNC. That guy is a ball hawk and can get to the QB. I think we are good with the D Line. It’s the pass rush from the linebacker position we need to concentrate on. Reddick, Shep, and Barnett…wow..
Reddick is good
I just watch Nebraska’s bowl, and They have an all american LB. Don’t really remember his name but he looked really good. Don’t even now if he will be in draft tho.
How about J. Jones of Georgia
By reports he is the best rushing OLB in the draft
I have seen Reddick
listed as a ILB and OLB. He’s a hybrid a definite plus. Means he’s versatile
NCblofan I think you are talking about LaVonte David…that guy is a stud as well but I think he’s more a run stopping LB where Reddick can defend the pass and run very well.
I couldn’t watch the Georgia game today, but I heard Jarvis Jones was a beast, consistently running over/through the left tackle. If/when they take an OLB, I just hope they are wise enough to grab an every-down type of player, unlike Maybin.
by SiriusRed on Jan 2, 2012 5:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I love Burfict
this is kind of irrelevant since he’s an ILB and we won’t draft him but he’s an absolute animal in the middle. I wonder if he could be used as a pass rushing OLB though.
by BillsThickNThin on Jan 2, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Still short a Dlineman here
Coples will be an LDE and more of a run stopper in NFL
We need an RDE to get after QB too
Reason for firing...
“we are in a production business”…somebody needs to tell Chan he has not been very productive as the Bills head coach.
assistants always go before the head guy
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 2, 2012 4:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, usually the HC gets to replace a coordinator or two before he gets the axe himself.
by tm on Jan 2, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Edwards had to go, there is no question. Promoting Wannstedt mean we will go to 4-3? That would be disappointing. I realize our roster is probably better suited… but the transition was an intelligent idea… and I hope this doesn’t mean that we give up on it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I do applaud the Bills for getting Wannstedt last year when available.
Even though they already had George Edwards in only his second year, I like that they saw a good coach like Wannstedt available and went out and got him. Now he has one year in the system, knows the players, and is elevated to DC. Pretty smooth, actually. Nicely done, IMO. Good change to a better coach, with minimal disruption to the team.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Jan 2, 2012 3:53 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Rec'd completely agree....
We all felt that this was a good hire at the time because Edwards was probably not the answer or going to last long… It is probably better to have a guy in office working with the other coaches and players to know what he likes and dislikes….. Disappointed that the defense didn’t play better even with Wanny in house all year. Tells me that a lot of the “Bad” was on the players abilities and not Edwards, but someone had to be the “fall guy”.
Whether we are 3-4 or 4-3, I don’t as much care because it is all about match-up defenses anyway… I’d just like a team that can rush the passer so we can have our corners play more Man with our safeties being ball hawks like Bryd intercepting Tebow… Until we can get a push on the edge and from the middle (Darius was a huge improvement here this year), then our secondary is completely exposed and we can’t get off the field on 3rd downs. Next we have to learn to cover TE’s… until we can do that Gronk, Hernandez, etc. will eat our lunch.
Finally, let’s have some depth at a few positions too. Injuries are sure to pile up next year too. Having guys ready to step up and be impact players in essential in having a playoff team.
Yeah, rec'd
This shows a lot of foresight at OBD, and that’s something we haven’t had in a LONG time. I love that they see the bigger picture
also..
I have to believe that had there been no lockout last offseason, Wanny would have inherited the job in January. Instead they retained him as an ILB coach to give him the insight he would have gotten had there been offseason stuff
Agree, especially with this part...
Good change to a better coach, with minimal disruption to the team.
The fact that he knows these players in practice and meeting settings gives him an immediate jump on a TRUE evaluation period for his players. His track record and pedigree is also quite impressive in itself.
If DW was on the market today and we hired him after an external search, I’m willing to bet the move would have a high approval rating. The fact that he’s already on the staff appears to have tarnished him in fans eyes already.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
What
no approval poll for this :)?
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 3:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It would be 100%
Guaranteed. Dissenting votes would be opposing teams fans.
"You never have to wait long, or look far, to be reminded of how thin the line is between being a hero or a goat."
- Mickey Mantle
by maestro110584 on Jan 2, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
The right move.
This was the way to go. I am sure alot of us have been wanting this for quite a while.I also feel we have alot of good young talent that edwards didn’t know how to use. I think he was in over his head. I wish him well in the future.Now, Let’s get ready for the draft,2012, and free agency!!!
4-3 v. 3-4?
Is it possible Wannstedt will coach a 3-4 here? I think this organization needs to stick to one system long -term. Given that they’ve drafted 3-4 talent the past two years, shouldn’t it be the 3-4? They’re going to have serious holes in the short-term, regardless of the system. I know Wannstedt has always been a 4-3 coach, but couldn’t he stick to the 3-4? I recall that Tomlin had a 4-3 background in Minnesota and when he went to Pittsburgh, he kept them in a 3-4 defense, so Wannstedt going 3-4 wouldn’t be unprecedented.
Difference Between HC and DC
Tomlin as a coordinator coached the 4-3. Tomlin as a head coach respected and trusted his coordinators to do what they do even if he prefers a different scheme. Wannstedt isn’t the HC, so I’m not sure I see this as a precedent.
3-4?
Good point. Not to mention that Tomlin had Lebeau as coordinator. I just mean that its not unprecedented for a coach with a long history in one system to switch to another.
Tomlin was smart enough as a head coach to stick with LeBeau’s 3-4. To make that applicable, the Bills would probably need to be a 4-3 to play to Stache’s strengths. I think.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Tomlin
When he was interviewed/hired by Pitt, Tomlin stated that although he always coached a 4-3, he wanted to stick to the 3-4 because the front office was used to drafting 3-4 talent. I don’t think it would be out of the question that Wannstedt would stick to the 3-4, as the Bills front office has a history of drafting 3-4 players (Whaley in Pitt and Nix in SD, Buf)
What 3-4 talent
Troup will never play nose in a 3-4, just doesn’t have the physique for it. Carrington is the only that doesn’t fit. Sheppard can play MLB and Barnett can be moved to OLB. Kelsay is a 4-3 end. Edwards is on the downside. Williams and Dareus lined up together as DT’s, try blocking that! They would need another OLB and DE. I say switch.
I’m wondering if Carrington would be a fit as an LDE or a 3-tech DT. He’s got some athleticism and a big wing-span like that can’t hurt. Somebody needs to back Kelsay up because he’s not getting any younger and he was never that productive anyway.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
I'm going to hold back on the unconditional praise
He’s been in the system for one year, and despite coaching our linebackers didn’t cause any recognizable improvement despite arguably better talent. The defense as a whole didn’t improve this year, and as stated he has only coached the 4-3.
I would have preferred to see Buffalo at least put some effort into interviewing another candidate or two before this hire.
Like, for example, what about Steve Spagnuolo, fired today, who also has coached exclusively 4-3, but has shown a knack for designing effective pass rushing schemes?
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
He coached the ILBs and they were much better than last year.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
they were also completely different players
so… that is just as much of a factor.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I said that up top, too. It’s still worth noting that a third round rookie was taking starters reps for him.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
agree
but a third rounder with a second round grade. they had him rated as a 2nd, but Williams as a first, so they selected williams, and somehow landed Shepp when the class had very few MLBs. Lucky that Nix trusted his board, actually. I don’t feel like he was a surprise to start. He was noted as smart (diagnoses well, assimilates info quickly), strong, and a pro in the making, as of the senior bowl- where he showed he could play sideline to sideline, which was his biggest question mark.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
grade
Any player you take at the top of the 3rd rd is going to have a second round grade on your board. Unlike the pundits, teams boards differ substantially, so its nearly impossible that you don’t get someone as a “steal” according to your board every time you make a pick.
by Joe.Bills on Jan 2, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that isn't necessarily true.
i get your point.. but that is saying that any early selection is NEVER a reach… and that just isn’t the case, if you DON’T select BPA, which DOES happen. if you catch my drift.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I dont. He was a 3rd rd pick that played fairly well. If he was clearly a 2nd rd talent, he would have been chosen there. The point above is that he was well coached and improved, which I think is fair.
by Joe.Bills on Jan 2, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
wrong. first… he was rated a second round selection for Nix. that was what i said.
2nd round talent bleeds over into the third… i took that as YOUR point… and it is accurate.
Being “well coached and improved” is an assumption. he could have been equally productive, or less productive, in any number of situations. we can’t judge him against his last year in this system, as he wasn’t in it. we won’t likely be able to compare next year now either.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
this is the truth
yes, you have to pick the right players, but a lot happens between april and whenever that player gets on the field
i don't see how.
in that… i don’t know which of his two statements you agree with.
first: 2nd round talent gets selected in the third round, every year.
second: the point that coaching was the catalyst for improvement, was the matter in contention.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn’t a surprise. But it did take work by his position coach to get him ready.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
you assume.
i mean… there really isn’t clear cut evidence of this. i am not saying you are wrong. i am not saying it isn’t accurate. i am saying, there isn’t definitive evidence of this. it can be assumed, but you could also be wrong.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Well LSU runs a 4-3 defense. So it would stand to reason that unless Shepp just flew by the seat of his pants that Wannstedt had something to do with it.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
again… i am not faulting your logic. i am just saying, it is possibly an assumption. True “players” can play… and 8 weeks is pretty quick to digest an entirely new defensive system, regardless of coaching. I am not saying the coaching didn’t help, I am suggesting it may have been possible for him to transition, given the player and person he is. you are deflecting this directly to wannstedt’s coaching, which is an assumption, as much as Shepp being productive on his own would be.
i think, obviously, it was most likely a combination of each… but that doesn’t make either of us right, or wrong. i guess, i will go with, it is what it is… and nothing more.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I said at a couple points in this thread that getting better ILBs helped Wanny but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have an impact.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
and i said a couple times in this thread that getting better ILBs
didn’t necessarily say anything about Wanny.
that is all. i am not saying he will suck. i am not saying we can’t do well with him. i can say, that for sake of continuity, we would need him to do something he hasn’t done historically, or else, we are “starting over” in a sense, give the personnel direction we had been going on defense (34) and going back to what he has known historically, which is 43. THAT, i agree with LESS than not even pursuing someone else, at all.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I’m going to have to agree to disagree then. In my opinion, last year’s LB’s were horrendous, but that’s because Poz had many shortcomings and we had nobodies playing next to him. Barnett was much better in coverage and Shep gave us a consistent player at the other spot. I put that one more on the players than the coaching.
I am not saying that Wannstedt can’t be a good defensive coordinator for us, I’m just saying that I would have liked Buffalo to do a bit of asking around before hiring from within on a defensive staff that fielded a lousy product.
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
exactly – this is typical OBD. so far how’s that been working?
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
How do you know they weren't asking around
Just because the news or other media outlets weren’t reporting that the Bills were looking for a DC doesn’t mean they weren’t looking
They certainly didn’t interview anybody between the regular season ending last night and promoting Wannstedt this afternoon.
by tm on Jan 2, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
because you have to ask permissions in season and that didn’t happen. like the jags asking permission to interview mularkey. those things hit the media
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I’m just saying that I would have liked Buffalo to do a bit of asking around before hiring from within on a defensive staff that fielded a lousy product.
this is my issue also.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
maybe they did think about it. Figured Wannstedt was better then what, or would be available.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
OR… they did their due diligence last year when they hired Wanny. Only they didn’t promote him to D-Coordinator because there was no offseason, and that would have been throwing him to crazy amounts of criticism from the wolves (us) who would have wanted to see an instant top 10 defense. (and since that would have been damn near impossible) they “protected” their investment by putting him at ILB coach, knowing full well Edwards would be the scapegoat at the end of this season.
Sounds like good, longterm thinking… and a little bit of gamesmanship
valid
and, i can’t say you are wrong. i am hopeful, that you might be right. but the fact is, that 12 months have gone by, things have changed, other people have “come up” or are now available, and we didn’t even look their way.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Hybrid
Most innovative defensive minds around the league have been running a hybrid defense for the past couple of years – this year more than ever that I noticed. I think we’ll see more and more teams do this as they catch on. You’ll see a D line up in 3-4 and then switch to 4-3 before the snap (or vice versa) a lot more than you ever have – it allows for better disguising your defensive front and maintains the pass-rusher disguise that 3-4 offers. As a result, you’ll also see more teams placing a higher importance on front-7 guys that can play more than one position. The hated “versatility” will be coveted in coming drafts. This is just my opinion.
Doesn’t make me go crazy, but Its the right move. Now please guys continue to pray so that Chan can receive the message that this is not GT any more and that the 4 5 Wrs formations are awfull, and that we have to run the ball.
The. I would be happy
by rick p on Jan 2, 2012 4:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree, more ball running.
"THE WAGON BLASTER BELONG TO THE FANS TO THE BUFFALO NATION ONCE YOU ENTER THERE IS NO TURNING BACK WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER AND SERVE ALL AS ONE ENTITY THAT WILL CRUSH ALL OF DOES WHO COME TO OUR HOLLY KING DOME" - abayarde
by NotReadytoRock on Jan 2, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I see a base 43 coming
with 34 looks.
If we can get a guy like Coples, then that would play right into that.
Rookie/Carrington/Edwards – Williams – Dareus – Kelsay
Barnett – Shepp – ?
Maybe we need a 43 olb more
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
Carrington and Edwards
are 4-3 D Tackles, not ends. IF anything, Carrington might be able to lose some weight and back up Kelsey on the strong side
he just put 25 lbs ON this offseason
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
agreed
there are far more options for a 4-3 end than a 3-4 OLB at the top end of the draft board currently.
Check out http://mocknfldrafts.blogspot.com/
by Billsdownunder on Jan 2, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
i understand that
But if you were to ask them, their base was a 34
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
by billsoferie on Jan 2, 2012 6:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gailey said to Chris Brown in January of last year that people were probably going to say him that they thought that he was a 3-4 defense and ask him why he was then in a 4-3 defense to start out the year. He said that they were going to be a hybrid defense but that they were going to be mostly a 4-3 defense and that it would go from week to week based on their opponent. And guess what. Chris Brown asked him the exact question not too long ago. Unbelievable. I don’t know how coaches stay sane sometimes.
yea, it’s a good thing this years draft is very deep at OLB, so whichever defense we are going to run, we needed to add at least one OLB in the draft. That is the teams weakness, but they could be looking at DE now if they think Carrinton is no more then a back up in either scheme.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yuck. We’re talking about a guy whose only success as a DC was as Jimmy Jones’ number two guy like 20 years ago. He flopped in Chicago and was mediocre in Miami and Pitt.
I feel like if Dave Wannstedt was being hired by another team in the division, we’d joke about him not being a good coach. But since it’s our Bills, the move will be met with immediate optimism. Can’t wait for all the posts using this move as an argument about how the Bills will be a playoff contender next year.
My immediate reaction to this is that the Bills have no organizational plan on defense at all. Their moves remind me of the Jauron era where it was just plug a hole with a player, use your draft picks to fill the empty spots, focus on next year, but no big picture thinking, no long term focus. I’m tired of reactionary moves by this organization. You wanted to run a 3-4, so run a 3-4. Don’t get distracted by bad run defense and try to use a draft to fix that. Don’t change directions now because George Edwards was a failure. There’s got to be a good candidate out there who has new ideas about running a 3-4 and about the changing landscape of the NFL. That should have been the hire by the Bills, not some recycled 4-3 coach who the Bills are already comfortable with and who they think can pull moderate improvement out of the defense.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2012 4:16 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Just golden Kaiser, Golden
"Big Gulps Eh, Well See ya later" - Lloyd Christmas
" You Gus ready To Let The Dogs Out" "What?" " you Know, Who Let the dogs out rough rough rogh rough" - Zack Galifinakis - The Hangover
by PaullyPforPrez on Jan 3, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like if Dave Wannstedt was being hired by another team in the division, we’d joke about him not being a good coach. But since it’s our Bills, the move will be met with immediate optimism.
sad, but true.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
it is.
following this team is draining – its like their not even trying anymore. I haven’t been this disinterested in this team ever
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
well, at least a handful of us skeptics will either be right
or wrong… and we all win if those of us skeptics end up wrong. I will gladly allow Wanny to prove us wrong.. and elevate this defense. i just don’t see it happening.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
me either…he was not popular in Miami and was in the same situation as Edwards with Buffalo. The defense is bas Someone has to take the blame….
Stash will not make a difference
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
You guys talk like a 4-3 isn't able to comprehend the 3-4
Look….I don’t know and I really don’t care what system the Bills decide to run as long as it isn’t the T2. Bottom line is none of the big names were coming here…as usual….and DWS is an ugrade to Edwards. How about we give the guy a chance to see what he can do as the DC
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we’ve seen his defenses Joe – in Miami. he wasn’t special then and its been a decade since he’s done it.
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 4:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
he is a better DC than HC.....this is true for many people who have become failed HCs
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I'd call multiple years in the top 10 special, which his MIA D's were.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Exactly
Are posters saying things without looking at the facts?
Yes. It happens so often I am no longer surprised by it.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 3, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that Wannstedt couldn’t coach a 3-4, I just see no plan if you’re hiring him to run this defense. There’s no defensive identity right now and Wannstedt doesn’t bring that. The Bills need to be building for something better, not just trying to reconfigure the parts they have into something passable. All the best defenses in the league have a schematic identity. The Bills show no aspirations towards building that identity through scheme and stability.
Best case scenario in this hire is the Bills switching back to a traditional 4-3 and making the Williams/Dareus combo the centerpiece of it. While that would be a Buddy Nix admission of failure, a move away from a hybrid scheme would give me hope that Buffalo might have some direction.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
as ive usually been optimistic about the decision making so far in the nix/gailey era, it hurts for me to agree with you here.
everything about this promotion feels like the type of reactionary thing that fans love but doesnt actually help the franchise improve.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
The thing is, I think they have the bodies for a 4-3. They might actually develop a little depth at linebacker as well suddenly with only needing 3 on the field at once. Dwan Edwards and Merriman probably are goners and I think the adjustment works fairly well. It’s another change, but I think the right one.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 2, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
rec'd
Great points. Why not a Kevin Butler, or some other assistant on the rise from a successful 3-4 team?
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
you mean like we tried when we hired Mike Mularkey as our HC?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
i tend to agree with u here. wannstedt will be a better DC than edwards, but so what? 2 years into their rebuild and they have to overhaul there defensive philosophy again… i dont understand it
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
won't be an overhaul....we are a hybrid 3-4
we will remain a hybrid
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
im a little curious what makes u so certain of that. wannstedts entire career has been as a straight 4-3 coach, and he hasnt been particularly successful
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
because there is no reason to believe other wise
Just because DWS ran the 4-3 20 years ago doesn’t mean he can’t be a good 3-4 DC, especially when there isn’t much more than a squirt of piss difference between the 3-4 we run and the 4-3 he used to run.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
20 years ago? more like the past 20 years from 1989 to 2010
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Exactly. You could even throw his college career in there with Miami, Oklahoma St. and Pitt where he’s been coaching 4-3 defenses since the 70s.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
way to focus on the part of my post that matters the least
again, you assume he doesn’t know how to coach a 3-4 hybrid like we have been running.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
It’s not that he doesn’t know how. It’s like playing a player slightly out of position. It’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they won’t be at their best there. I’m just tired of this hybrid stuff. There is no plan on defense. They’re not building towards anything. IMO, Wannstedt is further proof that this organization lacks a focus when it comes to team building and long term thinking.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
there is a plan....the plan is to be a base 3-4 team that has the
flexibility to give teams 4-3 looks. Come on man….I know you are smart enough to understand that. Bottom line is we need better players and coaches who know how to use them. The 3-4 and 4-3 systems we are talking about are so similar it doesn’t make much difference personnel wise. Why are people totally discounting the advantages to being flexible defensively? Maybe I’m getting to old for this…….
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
i dont get it, do u have insider info that the rest of us dont?
how are u so confident in proclaiming what their plan is for the defense?
3-4 and 4-3 are two different concepts that require different skill sets at positions in the front7. “doesnt make much of a difference” is a matter of semantics, having guys even slightly out of place in the NFL can easily make the difference between winning and sucking. buddy nix has spent 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods with the intent of going after players whose skill set fits snuggly into some role in a 30 front. now the bills hire a career 4-3 DC.
im totally with kaiser on this. even if wanny turns out to field a better defense than edwards, its an obvious indication that buddy and chan have been shooting from the hip on certain very important, franchise altering decisions.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Jan 2, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No inside info...just looking at the situation as if I were the coach
Look….there are some advantages to having a pure 3-4 or 4-3, but there are also disadvantages. Same goes for the hybrid 3-4. For example, a great pass rusher as a DE in 4-3 might also have the ability to drop into zone coverage on occasion if he were a rush OLB in a 3-4. Like I have said so many times it hurts…..the key is have great players and coaches who know how to use them.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
reads like assumptions to me.
i dont get it, do u have insider info that the rest of us dont?
how are u so confident in proclaiming what their plan is for the defense?
and not necessarily well founded ones.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
sorry boom
what i meant was : Rec’d. hahaha… but ultimately, you are totally right… if it works out good, it still stinks of rash, and a garbage idea, that COULD pan out.
More likely, it is just another case of sticking with what they know, and then back pedaling, and then… finding work elsewhere, leaving us as bad off as if they had never been here. i rather stay the coarse, and then sink… then flip flop back and forth, until it sinks.
maybe some don’t see the difference, as the end result is still failure, but i rather stick with what they said they were gonna do, than not. sounds too much like politics for my liking. rather they stick to their guns with the 34 plans, and maybe they will… that is my only positive here.
if we stick with terminology and system, then we have a chance… if we change everything… we have a rebuild inside a rebuild, and anyone who saw “Inception” knows, that the deeper the layer, the longer it takes……. we don’t have the time with this regime to spend going back and forth, and settling. we sign mediocrity long term, don’t re-sign talent, we don’t infuse talent, and when we do land some talent, we put them into poor position, based off what we intended to begin with? what is that? Stupid. The answer is just as simple as that….. stupid.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
He wasn’t successful as a head coach so that must mean he’s a terrible defensive coordinator? Gregg Williams says otherwise.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
The league is full of guys who are good/great coordinators but awful as head coaches. I’m happy that we at least have somebody who is qualified to be the DC instead of Edwards. Only time will tell as to how the defense responds next year.
by SiriusRed on Jan 2, 2012 5:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gregg Williams didn’t go 20 years between coordinator positions and the Bills actually had a good defense when he was a HC. The Bills could go 4-12 next year and Gailey could be fired, but I’d be optimistic about Gailey’s future as an OC because he’s shown an ability to get a lot from a little here on offense. I don’t think Wannstedt has really been able to elevate his defenses as a head coach.
My concern is whether or not Wannstedt was ever even that good of a defensive coordinator. All his promotions in coaching have been given to him by Jimmy Johnson. All of his career success has been as Johnson’s number two. Wannstedt really followed Johnson around (they were on five different coaching staffs together) and hasn’t done a single thing other than one measly bowl win at Pitt and a couple nice regular season records in Miami without Johnson there by his side. He really tanked those Bears teams as a HC. In his first season, the defense only gave up 230 points. In his last two years, they gave up about 400 points per season.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
good points Kaiser, i had forgotten about the Bears stint. REc
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
You might know better than I, but did Wannstedt call his own defensive plays as head coach? Your point about Gailey makes sense except he has been calling his own plays.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
At Pitt he did the last year and change
After he had issues with his coordinator calling too many blitzes, led to a little heat between the two…
how can Wannstedt not be given credit for his Dolphin defenses?
In his seasons as head coach Wannys D’s in Miami were ranked:
2000: 3rd in points allowed and 6th in yards
2001: 11th in points allowed and 5th in yards
2002: 4th in points allowed and 3rd in yards
2003: 3rd in points allowed and 10th in yards
Why is that not elevating his defenses? Seems pretty impressive to me as a track record.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 3, 2012 4:54 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry kaiser, but DW had pretty good D's while in CHI and MIA
I’ll take this track record and average over the last few years of what we’ve had.
Year / yards per game / points per game.
’93 4 3
’94 13 10
’95 19 22
’96 12 12
’97 12 29
’98 14 23
’99 5 19
’00 6 3
’01 5 11
’02 3 4
’03 10 3
’04 8 20
When I think of DW as a coach, I think of teams that had no QB and pretty good defenses. I think that’s true from CHI to MIA.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
if i read this right:
he allowed no more than 19 yards a game, and what, the opponent averaged as many as 29 points a game?
somehow, i don’t think that is accurate.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Rankings, sorry. 4th in yds, 3rd in pts etc
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
oh. ok.
so they ranked 4th in yards allowed per game (not attained i assume) and then ranked third in points allowed per game?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
well, that being clarified
they are mediocre to poor in 95,97,98 (idk which team he was with then) and above average when he was fired? So, perhaps he was simply the scapegoat for the offenses’ failures from 2000 to 2004? so, he was on a team with a crap defense, and then ended up on a team with crap offense, and was eliminated from both? that doesn’t bode well then, on this team… since we kinda have a crap offense, AND defense right now.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
What that says is in his 12 years as a HC or DC since he was in CHI he had ONE defense that was ranked in the bottom half of the league.
One year out of 12 shows me he knows how to field a good defense.
That’s all I care about for his time with the Buffalo Bills. He’s our DC not HC so the rest doesn’t matter to me.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
i mean
that would say:
in 1993, the defense allowed 4 yards per game, and 3 points per game?
i mean… are you saying the defense allowed that many points per game? or they score it?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't the 3-4 scheme decided before Edwards was hired?
Not that I’d mind a return to the 4-3, but the die was cast when they dumped Schobel, moved Kelsay to OLB and left Williams as a fish out of water in the 3-4. If they go to 4-3, what happens to Sheppard, does he go to OLB?
schobel retired
kelsay is better suited for OLB in 3-4 as evidenced by production… Williams? if you mean the meatball… he was fine as a 3-4 DT.
Shepp is a MLB. Maybe Barnett to OLB… but ultimately, my hope is that the MLBs indicate we need to keep going for 3-4.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Bills gave Schobel (Kelsay too) an ultimatum, convert to OLB or you’re gone. Bills cut him when he refused. Schobel contemplated playing for the Texans but decided against it. I think he would have remained a Bill if they retained the 4-3.
Theres a lot of speculation here. Schobel was rumored to retire for like three years because his family was in Texas, he finally did it. Maybe the conversion was the straw that broke him, but it also could have been the excuse he was looking for because he wanted to be at home. Based on the more common reasons attributed to his retirement (desire to be at home with his kids), I tend to think Schobel was short for the Bills either way.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly right Grey
speculation… that is it. he was gone by the time it mattered.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
No.
kelsay is better suited for OLB in 3-4 as evidenced by production
That is so completely and utterly wrong. Kelsey’s production this season has happened with him playing DE on a 4 man line, even if his hand wasn’t on the ground.
agree to disagree
i personally have dogged the guy since forever… and have done none of that this year, as i feel he is better suited.
Completely and utterly wrong? he was just as productive, as in his BEST seasons with four less games. so, i would say that i have some evidence to support my belief. more than you have provided so far, at least.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Yes.
When they let him have DE responsibilities, and NOT LB responsibilities.
His best plays have been coming when he’s lined as a defense end. If they play a 3-4 look, he’s coming off the field.
Nope, Kelsay played 34 as an OLB a lot actually. He just played the Terrell Suggs hybrid player who rarely if ever dropped into coverage and instead set the edge on D and rushed the passer. I tend to agree actually, I think he has played much better as an OLB than he ever was as a DE.
"That's why you keep playing, gentlemen"
-Chan Gailey-
by Eric Murawski on Jan 2, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think Sheppard would be the strongside OLB in a 4-3 and the guy who comes off the field in the nickel, like he does right now. Barnett would stay at MLB where his coverage abilities make him a strong three down player. Barnett played most of his career as a 4-3 MLB before GB switched over a few years back.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
Barnett would still be the 3-down player in my mind. He just wouldn’t be the Mike. We shall see.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Shep would be the MLB with Barnett likely moving to WLB.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
4-3 Defense
Chris Kelsay, Kyle Williams, Marcel Dareus, and Quinton Couples. That’s a mean front line up!
by Bills Backer Bob on Jan 2, 2012 4:19 PM EST reply actions
Carrington? I don’t see why we put Kelsay back at DE where he managed to ride the pine for half a decade behind guys like Schobel, and Denney, who frankly, weren’t anywhere near dominant.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Good Point
Maybe draft a defensive end and have an open tryout for the opposite end. I think Kelsay would be the favorite, but they do have quite a few younger guys like Carrington who could step up.
by Bills Backer Bob on Jan 2, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Carrington
is 300 lbs….that is DT size in a 4-3
Carrington was drafted and his weight was around 280-285. Peppers plays DE in the 4-3 at 275 i believe, so Carrington’s weight regimin needs to change, but he could play the 4-3 DE.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
i dont see that at all. as a 4-3 DE his role on run downs would look a lot like it did when they had him playing 3-4 OLB. how did that work out?
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
lamar houston is also a significantly more gifted athlete than alex carrington. my post up there had nothing whatsoever to do with weight.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
ok, I'm just reading through
many people have said switching to a 4-3 would not allow Carrington to play 43 end because he is to big which is false. And idk i would have to check but I thought Carrington was a pretty good athlete.
You are now Watching The Throne.
That’s a different scheme though and one I wouldn’t mind seeing the Bills run. It’d give a guy like Arthur Moats a position as an elephant OLB. Like in Oakland with players who you would traditionally consider as 4-3 DEs like Quentin Groves and Kameron Wimbly. Seattle runs the same thing with NT sized Red Bryant at DE. Cincy is another 4-3 which employs some bigger ends (Carlos Dunlap has got to be pusing 300) and with Manny Lawson and Dontay Moch as pass rushers at LB.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
he is out of position in the 3-4, he is playing at 305 right? the coaching staff must have thought he was athletic enough to try. I"m just saying he could lose the weight and try the DE in the 4-3 or maintain the weight and play back up to DT. I would prefer the Bills, if they switch to 4-3, to play a bigger version of it instead of having small de’s that get ran at all day long and abused constantly.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I have read that
Carrington fits better for a 5 technique, he doesnt have the lateral quickness to play 4-3 end.
You are now Watching The Throne.
actually, when he was drafted, the scouting report on him was that he could play either the 4-3 or the 3-4 and that his strength was his lateral quickness. Great against the run, but only had the bull rush for his pass rush move, needed to add variety to his pass rushing.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
not according to nfl.com
but different sites will say different things. he potentially can, but if they tried Spencer at OLB instead of Carrington doesn’t that say something about his lateral quickness.
You are now Watching The Throne.
i think it more speaks to how we wanted to run a 43, from a 34 "look"
and then went and handed the opponent a mismatch. hence the firing of Edwards.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Agreed!
I believe so as well.
Need to stop the run. I live in Raleigh and Coples is compared to another Peppers, but you still have to live up to the hype!
by BuffaloWhiner on Jan 2, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like Coples
I’m not sold on him at all. He is a big, powerful dude but he seems to take a lot of plays off, or gives up on plays midway through. He has no burst, no speed, no motor. He’s just a big big guy that can overpower college players.
No More Hybrids
Let the man do what he does best and run a strict 4-3. I want to see our D look like Cincy’s.
I want to see Chris Kelsay back at 4-3 DE, with maybe a Brandon Jenkins or Vinny Curry on the other end sandwiching Kyle and Marcell. Barnett, Shep, and Morrison (or maybe some FA pick up) would make for great MLB depth, and we would still need to find some solid OLBs. I might not even mind seeing Moats move between a 4-3 DE (what he played in college) and OLB, depending.
Just my 2 cents
If we do switch back to the 4-3 it would benefit us greatly. One reason is because there is less competition for players that fit that system cause most teams are running the 3-4. Reason #2 is our personnel are still more suited to run the 4-3. Reason #3 is that if the Hoodie is willing to change his base D from a 3-4 to 4-3 then there has to be something there that I would try to copy. There’s a reason why he keeps getting to the playoffs even without Brady.
I would look less at the Pats defense for inspiration
and more at the Bengals or even Jax.
I’m not sure this is the year to start emulating the hoodies defensive genius. His defense is arguably worse than ours and this transition hasn’t really stemmed the bleeding.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well said...rec'd
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
It was the Hoodie's 1st yr in the change over so I give him a pass
Both Cincy and Jags have been playing the 4-3 for years so of course they’d play it better.
Its a stupid move insofar as it should have been done at least two months ago. Had it been done then, we would have seen what Wannestedt could do and then evaluate him right now, and hire a new up and coming asdistant or experienced coach depending on Wannestedt’s success—or lack thereof. It basically sets us behind by one season. Now we will have to wait at least another whole season before we realize Wannestedt isn’t the right guy either.
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Jan 2, 2012 4:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You would evaluate Wannstedt based on coaching a scheme he didn’t install? Bad form.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
No. as new d coordinator he would have switched schemes accordingly. And while asking a guy to work on the fly and then evaluate him may not seem fair, it’s the nature of the beast. 12 straight non playoff seasons. We dont have time to or much patience to see front office have delayed reactions.
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Jan 2, 2012 4:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Two months ago after Kyle Williams was injured? Here you go DW you just lost your best player on D here’s the keys to the defense have at it.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
The D unit still has enough talent without kyle to be formidable
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Jan 2, 2012 5:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that is a stretch
given the way our defense played, some could argue we have very little talent.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Switch schemes during the season? With his only Pro Bowler on IR? And two rookies starting with two more getting significant reps? That’s asking an awful lot.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
All I can say is
Dave Wannstedt acted as our ILB coach, and our ILBs (particularly Barnett and rookie Sheppard) looked pretty dern good to me.
Meh
Getting rid of Edwards is great, he was obviously in over his head, but why not at least interview some people from outside the organization before promoting Wannstedt?
I feel same way.
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Jan 2, 2012 5:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
IMO
Whoever the D coordinator is doesnt matter that much unless you have the talent to play with. If we can get some talented 3-4 OLBs or 4-3 DEs whatever we are going to play we will have a good defense, and hopefully Wannstedt can make sure of that.
You are now Watching The Throne.
by tomcs on Jan 2, 2012 4:46 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Whoever the D coordinator is doesnt matter that much unless you have the talent to play with
Exactly. Ted Cotrell ran a 3-4 Bills defense that was ranked in the top 3. And Gregg Williams ran a 4-3 Bills defense that was ranked in the top 3. Neither would have worked if they didn’t have the right players. I don’t care which they run or who the DC is, just get the players to fit whatever you run.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Jan 2, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
exactly....rec'd you both
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Which is hard to do if you keep changing your mind…. If they think we are closer to being a good 4-3 and can get the players, by all means change. But if it ends up meaning a bunch of depth picks are now worthless, I gotta question wonder whats being accomplished.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 2, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
^this
on the ball today my friend. couldn’t say better myself.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Which goes with the Bills switching back to a 4-3 as better right now.
Cause they can get better players that fit the 4-3 system without having to fight so many other teams for the talent. Most of the league runs the 3-4 which makes it harder to find 3-4 talent.
we were saying the same exact thing when we were running the 4-3
just get some better players and the defense will be better.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Yeah all that other crap is irrelevant. Just pick a damn scheme and run with it.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
or just pick some damn good players and let them play
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
It seems to me like a lot of us want to go back to the 4-3, which is kind of surprising. It was only a couple of years ago that the 3-4 was all the rage and we were dumb not to incorporate it. I’d like to see a poll taken on it
So many people wanted the 3-4 cause it was the "it" system to run
Now that so many teams are running it, it would be a huge benefit for the Bills to not run it so that way they can get higher potential players that fit 4-3 with less competition for said players.
I hated our 4-3 because it was a T2.....we were not a dome or fair weather team....stupid stupid stupid stupid
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would rather stay with the 3-4 hybrid
and work on getting some better players who can play in both systems
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I can agree with that
but I see them going primarily with the 4-3 base cause the personnel fit it better and now so does the coaching
I can't agree with that
I am tired of “Jack of all trades, master of none” players. I want 4-3 guys who have only ever played at a high level in 4-3 systems. No more playing out of position, no more 300 lbs DEs playing at OLB.
No more playing out of position, no more 300 lbs DEs playing at OLB.
we are the ONLY defense that tried that. indication Edwards was incapable, to me. that said…. i don’t want 220 lb linebackers like Brian Scott either. we should stick with the 3-4, and accept that it can behoove us to be capable of running some 4-3, as we will be in four man fronts just as often.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
who said I wanted 300 lb DEs playing OLB????
do I really have to list the OLBs in this league that can put their hand in the ground and rush the passer????
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
hybrid
is the word you use when you don’t have the talent to call it a 3-4.
i want us to pick one. we have to have a base formation. apart from that…. this discussion is moot, given how much we are in nickel.
the real issue at hand… is whether or not Wannstedt is an upgrade, or whether we would have been served to at least TRY to find another option. Neither of these questions have clear answers, as indicated by the near 50/50 split in this thread.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
we don't have the talent to run any system well
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
but we WERE drafting talent to run a 3-4
and so… it seems like switching now, is reversing 2 years of “progress”. So, my hope is that we don’t. that is all i mean.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
The talent we drafted for the 3-4 would be able to transition to a base 4-3
Like Joe P. said earlier we were running the tampa 2 version of the 4-3 defense. I’m saying we go to a base 4-3 which would be like the Vikings, Jags, and Cincy. Which is bigger front 7 than the Tampa 2 and more Man coverages
assumption
and, i don’t agree.
i think the team you should be looking at more closely, would be the Bears… not the vikes, jags. MAYBE Cincy… but the fact is, ALL of our D lineman are bigger than what typically run on a 4-3. where do guys like Carrington, or Batten or moats, or dareus fit into this scheme.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Well the 1st 3 are fringe players either way so they don't matter
Batten and Moats are to small/backups and the only reason they see the field is because the lack of talent to fill in at LB in the 3-4. Carrington would either back up Williams and Dareus at DT or possibly play DE in short yardage situations.
batten is 6'4" 240 lbs.
that is no way a fringe player, based on size.
Carrington is too big for DE in a 43.
Dareus is ONLY a dt in a 43, and sure, we can probably move guys BACK into DT spots, but that creates needs at DE. I guess, in general, it seems a switch is moving backwards, again. i rather move forward, and improve, than take another 2 years for everyone go catch up to where they are right now.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Dareus is up to what???? 320 lbs????? Dareus is our NT
or the biggest freaking DE in the league
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
which is why we have Williams for those 4-3 looks we run all the time
and why Williams comes out on short yardage situations
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
?
i don’t follow this thinking. Williams was IN when we ran a 4-3, and when we ran 34, apart from injury. i don’t get your point.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Dareus and Williams were our DTs in our 4-3 sets
on play where we needed extra beef up front and were in the base 3-4, Dareus was the NT.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
you meant this year? because, when kyle was in, and we were in a 4-3, we had merriman and, dareus was at end. at least as i recall. i guess, regardless, we haven’t seen enough of dareus and williams together in a 4-3 for me to feel like it is better than the versatility a 34 brings.
the moral is…. we have large DTS, large DEs, and large LBs…. and we want them to cover MORE ground? that is dumb.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Dareus did play some end, but he has also played some NT
Large is fine as long as the are also fast.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Large is fine as long as the are also fast.
i don’t feel they are.
also, what then about Heard, Carrington, or Dotson, or Spencer Johnson? i mean, we are grabbing bigger lineman, to occupy space, and now we want them to what?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
how about tackle?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Why are we caring about backups?
All of those guys except Johnson that you mentioned are backups and still would be backups just at DT instead of DE
Spencer was solid as a rotational 4-3 DT when we first picked him up from Minnesota.
Carringon was listed at 285 when we drafted him, and if he has good enough speed could probably be a LDE for us if he slims back down.
Heard and Dotson we didn’t give anything for, so it’s not the end of the world, but even then maybe Heard could be useful as a 4-3 NT like Pat Williams, rotating to give Dareus a breather every now and then.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
carrington just put on 25 lbs.
wanna have him just drop that in a season? that is dumb.
Just getting rid of players with potential, because we didn’t invest anything? Doesn’t that create MORE holes on a team lacking?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
All I know is this
too many of you are worried about keeping mediocre backup players instead of making the team better. As for Carrington he would still be the backup just at DT instead of DE
so, cut all the guys we just spent two years adding
and start over-creating EVEN MORE NEEDS, is a better plan, than sticking with the original plan? I disagree.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
When did I say anything about cutting everyone?
Backups are backups cause they’re not good enough to be starters. There is spots that some of them would still fit in as backups and that’s where they should be. But I’m not going to worry about dropping a backup to be able to bring in a starter in another position.
Also as I have pointed out
by making said change from base 3-4 to base 4-3 you’d only need to upgrade one spot which is a pass rushing DE. So instead of needing 2 OLB you only need one spot to fill. I’m making less needs by making said changes which gives you more options to fill other needs.
Thank you TRT
The only thing that would need to upgrade this year is get 1 pass rushing DE to play opposite of Kelsey and have Williams and Dareus in the middle. Then you’d have Barnett, Sheppard, and hopefully a healthy Merriman.
don't get me wrong
i was just asking for him to clarify. ultimately, we have like 7 DTs and 0 DEs, if we switch to a 4-3.
Merriman isn’t a 43 LB, he would be a DE.
I am not in the 43 camp. i am in sticking with the plan, going with what we have been doing, and adding more talent to get to a 34.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Well Merriman I'm less worried about using
but he’d be a stop gap till either we drafted/signed a better replacement.
That’s the same logic that has Spiller coming out of the game on 1st down Goal to Go.
In other words, bad logic.
Put your best players on the field and let them try to win. Don’t over think it. Taking Kyle Williams off the field for any other reason than fatigue, death or dismemberment is bad, bad football coaching.
didn't Choice score on the goalline?
oh, wait….. yep. he did. obviously Chan wants another of “his guys” to stick around, and wanted to show why. I say, we have 4 rbs next year, and all of them are on the roster. If we have 3, it is because we move Fred.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
oh
ok. i guess the fact he played in 4 games doesn’t matter. he got SOOOOO many opportunities in goalline, after all.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
So which is it? You’re telling me is super effective around the goal line, and it’s okay to take out Spiller, the far better player.
Or you’re telling me he wasn’t that effective because he didn’t get enough chances?
Stop falling into this ‘lego trap’. Football players are not legos. Simply because they fit nicely into a size and shape doesn’t mean that’s the piece to use.
Good coaches put their best players on the field.
so you are saying Chan is a bad coach then?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
He’s bad at player management (along with many other things), yes.
He relies on ‘package dogma’ way too much.
He isn’t alone in this failing, many coaches do too, but certainly he’s average at best.
every coach in the NFL has packages
but he does seem to use that as an excuse for not getting players on the field waaay to much.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
You’re telling me is super effective around the goal line, and it’s okay to take out Spiller, the far better player.
oh, was that what i said? i must have blanked….
nope. i never said that. stop putting words in my mouth. i said, that choice might be just as effective. he was stuffed on the goalline just as often as Spiller was too.
IF you had any idea who you were talking to, or how I actually feel, you would know that I would rather start Spiller, for any reason, not even Fred. I would use the opportunity to get way more than we paid for Fred, and move forward with the selection, and let someone else figure out what to pay him. But then, that is me making up my own mind, rather than letting you try to do it for me.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Williams is not a true NT....he is a gap shooter, not a guy who holds his
ground vs the double team.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
maybe, maybe not
he was signed as a DT, for a 3-4, long term, before selecting Dareus.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
That’s conventional wisdom, and to some extent it’s true. Honestly I think that’s one of those things that goes into the echo chamber and becomes ‘truth’.
Kellen Heard is probably bigger and stronger and can ‘2-Gap’, but he’s not a beter football player. Get your best players on the field, and you’ll better off.
He’s better at penetration, but that’s okay. The days of having to play defense with gap control are mostly over, especially with teams going 65% or 70% passing.
but you also have to know your players strengths and weaknesses
the reason we run so much 4-3 is because of Williams, don’t you think?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
while he spent half the season on IR
after being the true nose in a 34 all last year? idk that i agree, personally.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Williams was NEVER used as a true 3-4 NT in any year
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
semantics
if you wanna consider the hybrid a 34, then you have to consider him the nose.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
no I don't
if you don’t know the difference it isn’t my fault.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
if you don’t know the difference it isn’t my fault.
you can keep your condescending statements from the thread.
i am more than aware of the difference. maybe you want to check the fanshot i posted earlier. or… you can just be rude.
that’s about all i have to say to you, at this point.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Yes he started the year as the NT and Darius was DE
With Johnson and Carrington rotating at the opposite DE
You assume a ‘true’ NT in a 3-4 must be a two gap player.
This simply isn’t true. You can 1 Gap your way, and beat double teams with penetration much easier than with brute strength.
This is why Barnett is a better ILB than Poz, who had so much trouble reading the blocking in front him.
This is what made Jay Ratliff so difficult to handle in Dallas (when Wade Phillip’s scheme was being used).
You assume a ‘true’ NT in a 3-4 must be a two gap player.
a true 3-4 is a zero; which we have none. he then has a 2 gap responsibility.
we run a hybrid, which has him in the 1 gap, depending on the strong side of the formation.
He IS a penetrator, as you said. in a 4-3 that is fine for him to be the DT, not NT… but that also means that we create need at DE, IMO. Dareus would be the NT, Williams the DT. personally, i prefer to keep the 34, and accept that Williams MIGHT be a DE, or that dareus IS A DE, and either way, they both stay on the field, with the rest of our larger defenders we spent two years acquiring.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
No, we run the 4-3 so much because of Kelsey (and the lack of other options at OLB), not Williams.
agree.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
No, we run the 4-3 so much because of Kelsey (and the lack of other options at OLB), not Williams.
And Kyle may not have been an anchor against double teams, but he did draw double teams and managed to split them to wreak havoc in the backfield. While he may not have anchored, he still drew attention.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
sure.
AND 2 DEs, of which we have MAYBE one, in Kelsay, who rode the pine behind such greats as… Ryan Denney, and Schobel. Not exactly an endorsement to me. he has proven better as an OLB, TO ME AT LEAST.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
See the Denver game
Kelsay had his hand on the ground in a 4-3 front against Denver and was unstoppable. His hips are too tight to ever really excel as a 3-4 OLB.
ok
thank you for the elaboration.
i see him as too weak to control the point for edge runs… and that is more his responsibility with his hand in the ground. he overpursues when he is at de, he bites on play action, he takes poor angles, and he forgets his responsibilities.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
again dude
what is with these definitive: “i know better” statements?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah?
Whats up with that? LOL!!!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
find me a response where i say "no way" or "you are just wrong"
and maybe i would concede dude. but, again, if you want to continue to bash me for pointing out there are few things definitive in life, let alone football… go right ahead dude.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Here is my logic
Those things may be true but are things that can be taught-fundamentals. If you cannot play a position because of your physical limitations then it is really moot for you to be playing the position. To be honest, I think Kelsay trying to adapt to an OLB position actually helped his play at DE. I’m saying right now, in my opinion, their talent is better suited for a 4-3.
Disagree
Our D is better suited for CFL.
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
i think it is better suited to field a 43
now. yes. but that is from a decade of building a 43 roster. if the goal was to be a 34, we aren’t there. i don’t see how reteaching different fundamentals to 2 draft classes, and any of the 34 personnel we added is a step forward. that is the full extent of my whole point, that has been twisted, tugged, questioned and bashed, the whole thread.
WHY SWITCH? that is it.. why? what benefit? so we can field ANY product at all? do we need to give up on the 34 to do so? i feel like it is the direction we are headed. if so, that is disappointing. because honestly, there aren’t many cold weather teams successfully employing a 43 (bend don’t break) style of defense without a SUPERIOR high powered offense… which we didn’t have for half a season, for two seasons… at least.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
i tend to agree with ur overall point here.
nix spent 2 drafts and 2 FA periods targeting 3-4 personnel. some of them should be able to transition easy enough, but some of them will also be thrown hilariously out of position
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
yes...which is why it really doesn't matter which we run
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
good news
now, are there any Chan-compatible OC types on the market? I’d like to see him collaborate with someone of a higher caliber than Curtis Modkins on that side of the ball, then we can be all set for coaching changes this offseason.
Give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that can be changed, and the wisdom to know one from the other.
Spagnuolo >>>>>> Wannstedt
Color me really not that impressed….
NO WAY
Would he come to a team w/ mediocre D talent to coach the D
well, it wasn’t like the Rams were killing it on defense.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t make me go crazy, but Its the right move. Now please guys continue to pray so that Chan can receive the message that this is not GT any more and that the 4 5 Wrs formations are awfull, and that we have to run the ball.
The. I would be happy
by rick p on Jan 2, 2012 5:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
4-3 vs. 3-4
I dont think is as much of a big deal as people are making it out to be. Our very own, and awesome, Der Jaeger posted the linked article below and has some really interesting points in regards to defensive schemes. Nowadays there isnt a strict scheme teams are running, so they really need to be able to run both schemes. I think that this gives us a great opportunity to have a guy very familiar with a 4-3 working with a former 3-4 team. Very smooth transition and i think they will keep drafting for players that are scheme versatile. (http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/12/23/2611702/buffalo-bills-defense-43-34-running-game)
It's a pretty big deal because...
Buffalo doesn’t have a single player who could rush the passer out of either scheme. At this point switching back to the 4-3 would require cutting a few DT’s to make room for true DE’s. It would be easier and more prudent to draft/sign OLB’s. As you already said, though, it doesn’t really matter because no one runs a strict schemes anymore. No matter what direction they go, multiple sack artists are needed for Buffalo to take the next step.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
actually, they would be cutting OLB if they felt they didn’t fit the system. maybe a DT
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
ILB i mean
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Changing
Doesn’t really matter a whole lot. No matter what we need a pass rush, so it just affects whether or not we look for DE’s or OLB’s
He deserved it
He put Spencer Johnson and Kelsay on the outside…Blitzed his OLB’s out of the play…couldn’t cover a tight end…and really the CB’s seemed always out of position on big 3rd longs…not saying Wanny is the only answer…but i wasn’t impressed except for the Denver, KC, and Washington games…
My 2 cents about it
1. I’m not going to celebrate . Personally, I hate anyone losing a job (yeah, even if he sucks).
2. I’m wondering, what’s the plan here? You hired a 4-3 coach, so you HAVE TO play in 4-3. But you’ve been drafting for 3 year to build a 3-4 structure. Am I the only one confused here? What happened with all the rebuilding plan we heard before? Adjusting the plan or just a sign of disorganization?
I’m really looking forward to Nix interview next week.
We play a hybrid but either way we have personell issues. We play more 4-3 looks anyway.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Jan 2, 2012 6:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My Two Cents
Light your flame throwers Rumblers.
Just know I’m older than Chan and younger than Buddy.
What I love, and hate, about the off season is all the second guessing. Yes this was another disappointing season, but I still think we are on the right track.
Why you ask?
My assessment :
Darius +
Barnett +
Sheppard +
Chandler +
Urbik +
Pears +
Nelson +
Smith +
Spiller +
Searcy ++
Williams +
This is a damn good foundation to build on!
by mikeo76 on Jan 2, 2012 6:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Light your flame throwers Rumblers.
If only I could.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
do you want to borrow my lighter?
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
actually offered the lighter to light his flame thrower, was not a comment of whether i agree or disagree.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
The lighter is appreciated. Now I must find the flamethrower.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 2, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think DQ has them :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I'm sure Wannstedt can do Either
I don’t think the hard part of a defense is placing 3 or 4 linebackers on the field. It’s probably getting the most from your players, seeing opponents tendencies and countering them, etc.
I wrote it, I've re-read it, And I don't even know what I meant by that.
I think I’m trying to say that after his performance with the Bills, he’d be hard pressed to find a NFL job.
by JJS on Jan 2, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!
I assume you’re talking about Edwards?
I appreciate your honesty!
yeah, I am talking about Edwards
but he’s probably going to get a linebackers coaching job somewhere like the Jags or Browns. So, my comment is completely pointless.
by JJS on Jan 2, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Why so soon with a new DC
Why did we name a DC so soon. There are good people getting fired everyday now. We could have waited and seen who would be there for us to get.
Because the made the decision last year that this was the plan. They keep claiming to have a plan and whether I agree or not (and I often don’t) they at least stick with the plans they appear to make and I think we all saw this coming a year ago.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 2, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
There are good people getting fired everyday now
That’s a bit of a oxy-moron to me, sorry.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
by lonestar_ak on Jan 3, 2012 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Available 3-4 DC's
Does any one know who will be available for the DC spot. Like Steve from the Rams but he is a 4-3 guy.
They already hired someone. Kind of a moot point.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is another sign of bad judgment by the front office.
The have a nice backup plan or ace in the hole in DW so what do you do. If your OBD that means you run right out there and show your hand.The reason for a ace in the hole is to sit back and monitor the field or game and see what happens. Another sign of not holding your water. I hope that they have a good plan so I can be wrong about this.
If they fire Edwards and don’t promote DW, what motivation does that guy have to stay? This makes no sense to me.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
ummmm
employment? he didn’t sign as the DC. he signed as a LB coach/asst head coach. did that come with an inherent promotion? if so… why wait through a whole season of suck, first?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
ummm…. he knows enough people in this business where he wouldn’t be unemployed for long. Turner Gill’s got a job, Wannstedt could get a job.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
he has a job
that was the point. he already had a job. your question was this:
If they fire Edwards and don’t promote DW, what motivation does that guy have to stay?
as if, it was just inherently the right choice. a “no-brainer”. but then, if we could have had, Jeff Fisher… somehow… that wouldn’t even be an option now… because we just went ahead and signed the LB coach to DC. I guess, maybe you still miss my point. so, i will ask (and answer) a question of my own….
Why do I have to feel good that a guy who didn’t cut it as a HC, at the NFL OR College level, was just promoted, without any contention, or interview, or any other prospective candidate considered?
Answer: I don’t.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
No, you don’t. That doesn’t mean others won’t. Didn’t Jeff Fisher “fail” as a head coach, too? Just sayin’. :-)
by MattRichWarren on Jan 3, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
what motivation does that guy have to stay?
who Wannstedt? He’s the assistant head coach – that means that he can have input on the entire team – he has more responsibility than a DC doesn’t he in that role?
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
responsibility is a bad choice of words – has more input on the team than a DC in his role.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
We have no idea what his role was as Assistant Head Coach. Now do we know how it will change with his being named Defensive Coordinator.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
we can deduce his responsibilities can’t we and assume he could suggest and even implement changes on the team?
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 2, 2012 8:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I would assume he has much more control over defensive personnel as a whole now that he did before. You were arguing that he had some sort of oversight to the whole team as Assistant Head Coach. I’m not sure how accurate that is.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 3, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
If we were to look at a different team and define what an assistant HC does i’m pretty sure that everything I said would pop up into that.
I think you’re down playing this – for some reason
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
I think it’s mostly for added pay. They are a sounding board for the head coach, sure, but they don’t make decisions for the team. They offer advice.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 4, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
seems like I pretty much said that
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
To quote Barkely
Edwards was turrible,just turrible, as a DC
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
by mob16151 on Jan 2, 2012 8:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I’m totally prepared to ask the Bills to ban guys named Edwards from being employed with the Bills….sorry Dwan.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 2, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
WOW!!!!
forgive me for not reading through the 400 and some comments here, but it seems most of what I see is a fear that we will now switch to a 4-3 defense…..
SO WHAT???? It should not matter to any of us one “poop” which defensive scheme we run, as long as we play decent defense!!!! And that is something lacking as of late….
As for the thought that Wanny can’t coach a 3-4…. Are you F***** kidding me??? His credentials are such that I’m certain, if he want to coach a darn 5-2, 46, or even a tampon 2 he could do it!!!
Besides…. how has this change to the 3-4 worked out so far? If we’re so hellfire bent on blaming Edwards for our dismal performance, I think we also need to leave the rest of that past leave WITH him!!!
I’m sorta anxious about only one other thing, and that is I DO expect other changes due to Nix statements earlier….. I think we’ll have a much better idea of what defense we play next year, once Chixswanson sit down and have their face to face….
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
by Cinga on Jan 2, 2012 8:38 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Old Dog speaks truth.....the real truth....rec'd
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
i suppose you can just dismiss all of our points up til now.....
and go with the simple, clear cut, black and white assumption.
I have to say though, that sure seems like the lazy answer. Which i suppose fits just fine with the move made today.
SO WHAT???? It should not matter to any of us one "poop" which defensive scheme we run, as long as we play decent defense!!!! And that is something lacking as of late….
As for the thought that Wanny can’t coach a 3-4…. Are you F***** kidding me??? His credentials are such that I’m certain, if he want to coach a darn 5-2, 46, or even a tampon 2 he could do it!!!
it matters, because Nix said 3-4, then drafted for 3-4. You all can assume whatever you like about coaches switching schemes. Personally, I don’t know of many examples of guys changing philosophy, and just being inherently capable/good. It is kinda a significant role for the staff to just assign, lilly nilly.
Perhaps you can assume it doesn’t matter… but then, why are coaches/coordinators all over the league being fired today? Seems like, it matters quite a bit.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
but dude, some of those players drafted can convert to the 4=3
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
right....
and the way I see it, if we stick to the 3-4, we need a couple linebackers…. If we switch to the 4-3, we need a LB and DE… and maybe don’t even need the LB if Barnett or Shep can play outside…
But to make it even, let’s call it still 2 players in order to make the switch, or stand pat…
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
i am hesitant to agree. i can’t say you are wrong. in fact, at no point, have i said that we COULDN’T transition BACK to a 4-3. My point, is that we might, or rather are, moving away from what the plan was, for the sake of ONE individual, who has not proven to me effective at his job, as he hasn’t ever done a heck of a lot, from my point of view.
In some ways, of course our team is better suited for a 4-3. we ran it for a decade and JUST started drafting for a 3-4. So, while most of our roster is trying to transition FROM 43 to 34, we are now asking the kids who spent the last year or two learning a whole new system, to start anew, and go back to what we just taught them was wrong.
Maybe that sounds better to you, and others. It sounds like back-peddling to me. that is my beef. why, if we can’t run a 3-4, are we JUST coming to this conclusion now? For all we know, LB coach Edwards may have been just as good, or better at a 43, than DW. We don’t know. We have no more evidence for or against that, than we do for/against Wannstedt. I just don’t like the flip flopping around, SHOULD THAT OCCUR. Which is not even guaranteed.
But, since we are just talking, and speculating, i think it bears consideration, that we have spent two full drafts looking for 34 players, and though we are just as close either way… one way is forward, and one way is backward. That is how i see it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I understand you concerns....
believe me… But I think you answer yourself…
we have spent two full drafts looking for 34 players, and though we are just as close either way… one way is forward, and one way is backward. That is how i see it.
sometimes we all have to take two steps forward, and one back, in order to advance….
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
never been a fan of that particular idiom.
as, it is sorta redundant, and unfounded sometimes.
really, i prefer to look at it like this:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.~ George Bernard Shaw
particularly, since i am oft labeled the “unreasonable” one around here, as if my thoughts are the most ludicrous things imaginable, when in actuality, these thoughts are entirely valid, and more importantly “reasonable”.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
so, while we are adapting, to some degree
i don’t know that i would do so for the “sake of progress” if it is only in the short term, and not reaching our long term goals, or at least what we all believed were the long term goals. that is kinda what :
we all have to take two steps forward, and one back, in order to advance
is all about… and i just don’t agree. i am not open to the idea that moving backwards again, is somehow moving forward. i would rather, just move forward, and if that means being unreasonable, than so be it. I will gladly prefer progress, as i am sick of having these discussions BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS EVEN BEGIN.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
then we agree....
you and I are both people who prefer to ALWAYS move forward, but recognize, some people are idiots, so we add the little fall back crap that let’s others catch up in a politically correct world….
Did I get that right???
:-)
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
i think so.
but… i see Wannstedt as lateral movement.
and that should about sum it up.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Lateral move! More like a “save face move” !
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
call it whatever you want
i see it as a stop gap, lazy solution, to a significant problem, and it was as see through as it gets, as EVERYONE saw it coming. The bigger concern, is we aren’t even in the market for legit coaches… we have to take washups, and failures.
Sick of polishing turds… to find we still have turds.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Turds
Should be disposed of sir!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
indeed.
in the toilet. or at very least, out in the woods somewhere. not presented to the fans, as a solution to a problem. send him back to college. oh wait, they ousted him too.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Lateral move???? Maybe to those who lack vision
"The only thing constant in life is change" – Heraclitus
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
yes joe
as in we traded one former LB coach, for another. we hired the de facto answer, without pursuing another.
“Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional”
as in… even though we bring change, doesn’t mean it is inherently good.
trust me, as a philosophy major… i need not be reminded of ancient greeks (pre- Socratic greek for that matter, whihc means plenty of new thinking occured AFTER he was long gone) providing answers to opposing views. as i said once… i don’t need your condescension. i don’t need you to question my view. perhaps, supply some information, as to why you feel your view is superior, instead of resorting to nitpicking my every thought.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
If find it extremely amusing that
you call my views condescending yet call yourself TheRealTruth. I have provided plenty of views….the fact you consider your views as informational only adds to my amusement.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Heraclitus was known as “The Obscure” and that he believed that “the path up and down are one and the same”
nothing ironic about you quoting him… right? obviously you share a similar ideal, that apparently.. we can do whatever, and the result aren’t indicitive of our previous actions? as in… whatever will be will be?
you call my views condescending yet call yourself TheRealTruth….the fact you consider your views as informational only adds to my amusement.
The fact that you are a rude, inconsiderate, annoying, and disrespectful, only lead me to the conclusion you aren’t worth my time.
I have provided plenty of views….
such as? you have done little more than nitpick my view, as if it is somehow ludicrous, and the only reason i know you disagree, is you attack me, unabashedly. tell me, why is it that this was the best move we could have made? that seems to be missing from the thread.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
all i see is a lot of you putting words in other people's mouths
making assumptions, accusations, and being a pretentious ass.
perhaps, if you have some kind of valid, coherent, reasonable response to add, i would be willing to listen. otherwise, i am quick to write you off as little more than an irritation.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
you see what you want to see.....
My post are there for all to see and make up there own minds.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
i asked you politely cease with your condescending attitude, and personal attacks above.
you have persisted.
and now, i am flagging your comments. we can let the “powers that be” decide whether you are out of line.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
That is fine with me....but I would ask that you go back and
do a little tally of the names you have called me and the names I have called you….see how it turns out.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
adjectives to describe your approach
not attacks on your person, as you decided was the better solution.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
I was under the impression
being a pretentious ass.
was calling me a name….my bad?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
and that didn't happen
until you decided that
.the fact you consider your views as informational only adds to my amusement.
so really: it was a description of your behavior, regarding this statement, which was a clear personal attack…. similar to when you said, in reference to my 34 comment:
if you don’t know the difference it isn’t my fault.
thus attacking my “apparent” lack of knowledge in a subject that i am not ignorant, as you had implied. i was willing to leave it at that, until you decided to get snarky over other posts i made, without providing any reasoning or justification for your response. So… speaking of throwing stones:
“let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
so unless you are somehow perfect, and inherently good, and ABSOLUTELY correct in this matter: you started it… i would like to squash it… about that, i think i have been abundantly clear. Now it is on you to decide whether you are man enough to do so. I will apologize:
It was not necessary for me to call you an “ass” regardless of how I feel. But, it is equally rude of you to be condescending to me, without justification.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
Thank for your apology
I also apologize your any of my comments that may have hurt your feeling. In that spirit, I will not attempt to address the new issues you raised as I don’t think it would help resolve anything. As for the genesis of the situation, I think you misunderstood me….a philosophical difference in scheme doesn’t mean I think you are ignorant.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
i appreciate it joe.
i am not here to make enemies.
as far as misunderstanding: you were pretty matter of fact. I don’t know how else to take: you don’t know stuff: not my fault.
i don’t think we need to digress, or regress…
i understand that you are knowledgeable. i am more concerned that you seem very skeptical, of me. i can understand it, but i don’t see why i have to accept it.
ultimately, we are on opposing sides of the same discussion, and we are not necessarily likely to convert the other. I just prefer to not be disrespected, and your comments, if you reread them, maybe you could see how i could take them the way i did, regardless of how you intended.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wow?
Care to run for Congress sir?
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Meaning
Joe P.?
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
No thanks....I'm to honest :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Yeah
LOL
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
dude… i am scathingly, brutally honest, regarding my views as well. not that i need to justify it: but that was the fundamental basis for my name change. i was thrown outta here as “Ren Diggitty” for being rash, and inconsiderate sometimes (too often). I left for an entire year- and since coming back… this is the first true misunderstanding i have had. i prefer it this way- and i want to stick with stating things the way i see it, without calling others out for their opposing views. that said: i will defend my view, until such a time, that i am proven definitively wrong. Since most things are perpetually in debate, i think it better to expound and elaborate on thoughts, until we at least understand another’s perspective, even if we don’t share it. so in a nutshell: tell my why you feel how you do, and i will elaborate on whether i agree or not. i think that is the whole purpose of these (this) site (s).
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like a good plan...
I like a good debate and try to respect opinions that are different than my own….some days I am more successful than others.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
fair enough
sorry to get bent out of shape over what was ultimately nothing- but disrespect is something i refuse to tolerate. i have dealt with too much through my life to be called out for having a view. especially if it is an informed view, a valid view, or both.
there is no need for attacking someone for the way they see things… which isn’t the same as attacking their idiotic, condescending view. ; ) (sorry. just jokes. but in all seriousness, i do apologize for my reaction, as obviously, sometimes, i also fail.)
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Loosen up man, if you get all riled up from what Joe P said you will never last on message boards. Outside of Brian or MRW he’s one of the last people you are going to have to worry about.
Sit back, relax, and enjoy the mock drafts. It is going to be a long time until we find out if any of these decisions work out for the better.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
.some days I am more successful than others.
Join the club. My name is NordicBillsFan and I’m addicted to Internet-Tough-Guy.
I’ve been clean for 2 days now.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 3, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
recd
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Flag!
Your so right!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Joe. P
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
And
Please stop putting words in my mouth!!!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure if you are talking to me or not
If so, what words have I put in your mouth?
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Yeah
Good question. Meant Realtruth. Sorry Joe P. Little busy getting my buzz on!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Ok....just checking...thanks
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Your Welcome
Thank-you, I think:)
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
yes....I was not being sarcastic
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Let me say
I unfortunately have to disagree, I do not consider swapping Wannstedt for Edwards as a LB for LB coach swap that is a lateral move. Wannstedt has coached at all levels and some pretty good defenses for Jimmie Johnson. I would say that he is prolly the best D-coach available right now.
Cool
I agree!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
We are more suited to playing a 4-3 with the current personnel.
No
With current personnel were suited to CFL :).
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
The only player who wouldn't fit is Carrington.
Carrington is more suited as a DE in a 3-4, but I suppose he could be used as a 4-3 DE in a heaavy package. Troup will be better suited as a tackle, just doesn’t have the physicality to play nose in a 3-4. I got your drift Buffalobacker ;-).
Both have the range
Both Barnett and Sheppard have the range and speed to play OLB.
thanks....
those were my own thoughts and I would love to see Shep as the future defensive leader…
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
I would love to see Shep as the future defensive leader
i was disappointed to learn that we were selecting Williams in the second… as it would likely mean Shep would be gone when we picked again. (had a friend who knew about selections prior- not gonna get into details but, it is the reality) and then…. he wasn’t gone. i was ELATED. i think he can be a future leader. i think he is a great player, who is only just scratching the surface of his potential. I also think, he would do better in a 34, than a 43, solely based on ground needed to cover (of which he is capable, but not “amazing”).
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Right on Cinga
New guy, Williams, Dareus, Kelsay on the D-line. Sheppard MLB, Barnett OLB and new guy. There isn’t a true nose tackle on the roster and really no proven 3-4 DE’s (maybe Carrington) or OLB’s.
say what??
, why are coaches/coordinators all over the league being fired today?
cause they suck? Just like the one we let go?
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
that can't be it.....It MUST be because half of them where absent the day they taught the 3-4 in DC school :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
point being: knowing what your job is, and how to be successful at it, bares some kind of relevance, which you readily dismiss.
additionally : I support a 34, over a 43, and we have no evidence that our NEWLY HIRED, UNCONTESTED Linebackers coach, is now the Defensive Coordinator, and has ALL his experience in a 43. I don’t have to like the decision. Personally, I hate it. I fully expected it. I am not surprised at all. I never said he can’t be good. I never said we couldn’t run a 43. I am just not a fan of the “bills’ brass” saying one thing, then doing something else, especially when it just kinda stinks of hiring a guy, because we know who he is. Basically i will call it this: A total cop-out.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
oops.
I support a 34, over a 43, and we have no evidence that our NEWLY HIRED, UNCONTESTED Linebackers coach, is now the Defensive Coordinator, and has ALL his experience in a 43, …. is capable of running a 34, or intending to.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
call it what you want...
Basically i will call it this: A total cop-out.
I call this a change in direction that was desperately needed…
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
i am not disputing Edwards’ replacement. Called for that the whole season, right along with you. i am saying that Wannstedt isn’t a “shoo in” for me. i hate that we never even considered another candidate, DAY 1!!!! For all we know, we could have signed any number of playoff DC’s who could become available, or members of THEIR staff… which has proven progress/success…. instead, we promote the guy from our defense that completely sucked. that is a stupid move, IMO.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
actually, it is a non move.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
You don't know
You don’t know if they considered anyone else or not. Why would they let anyone know? Also, what playoff DC’s are going to become available? None? And someone from the staff of a successful defense is more of an unknown than Wannstedt.
well, since any of the playoff teams have not had any of their staff talked to, and we hired the guy, moments after firing the existing DC
one can guess/assume/suspect that we didn’t consider options that could be available to us, after the season.
Also, what playoff DC’s are going to become available? None?
i am not a psychic, or a soothesayer… so, i don’t know. neither do you. neither do they.
And someone from the staff of a successful defense is more of an unknown than Wannstedt.
unknown doesn’t = ineffective. nor does it mean that they couldn’t be equally or more capable. in fact, you are really only expounding on my other point, that we promoted him based solely off familiarity, and i don’t support that, either. Fact is, we don’t KNOW anything… we can only guess, or assume, or suspect that there could be other available options. Now, though, we have NO other options, and other teams, including our divisional opponents, are going to have an opportunity to pursue those other candidates. I guess, we will all find out in time, whether or not this was a good idea. I personally, would have preferred they took their time, interviewed a few candidates, and selected the one that best fit us. EVEN IF that was still Wannstedt, which it likely could be… at least we would have tested the waters… instead of taking the easy solution, on the path of least (no) resistance.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
i hate that we never even considered another candidate, DAY 1!!!!
i am not a psychic, or a soothesayer… so, i don’t know.
:|
you mean?
i don’t follow. are you agreeing? are you disappointed i am not a psychic? are you saying that i don’t know period?
i think that if we all had to stick to only facts, about things we all agree on, and only have first hand knowledge of, there would be no posts.
I am happy to not be psychic. seems like a burden. I do feel we didn’t consider other potential options, because, as the first day of off-season, and not even the first day of EVERYONE’s off-season: we definitely couldn’t have “left no stone un-turned” in our search, by default.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
why what bob?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Its actually quite simple to me.
If you have an abundance of defensive lineman you play a 4-3. If you got lots of good LB’s you play a 3-4. Fundamentally there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Fact is, with Williams and Dareus, I would like them on the field at the same time as DT’s. Dareus is too big at 340 to play DE anymore. I hate to try and block Williams and Dareus lined up next to each other.
i can appreciate your logic.
it is very well put, valid, and i can see what you mean.
However: I think that we would benefit from using a 3-4 long term. I am fearful that reverting back to a 4-3 is a step backwards, and that it could cost this regime, and that would be unfortunate, as i have been a Nix supporter, still have faith in Chan, and really, our defense can’t get much worse.
I just don’t see that our roster is being built for a 43… over the last 2 years… and am not quick to give up on progress. I see us moving towards what i have wanted, making some progress as far as roster… only for us to fall back into old, and unsuccessful ways.
of teams, in the playoffs, who don’t play in a dome, or in good weather… how many are running 43? How many 34? it just seems the better choice for us to be more physical, and capable of weathering the elements, rather than building a team for speed, or to have a disadvantage, should we actually have to play in snow next year, like we normally would. if we could somehow guarantee that we will always be able to play fast- then 43 it up. but i see 34 as the goal, and i see us moving away from it. this is the basis of ALL of my contention.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
You can win with either!
Remember the Steel Curtain defense (4-3), the Bears with the “46”. Last year Green Bay with a Dom Capers 3-4. I’m saying with the personnel at hand for Buffalo, they could add a DE and another OLB and be a top ten defense in my opinion. It allows them to play Williams and Dareus at the same time (as DT’s). I am trying to get to the promised land with the fewest moves. It’s all about personnel.
not to be a jerk, or whatever
but i don’t remember those teams. i am too young. which also speaks to the fact it is a new era, where covering becomes equally, if not more important. We have MORE versatility in coverage, solely from a base, with a 34. i linked a quote above, as well as offered a fanshot for the same article by Pat Kirwan at NFL.com (who certainly isn’t the end all be all, but has written and presented benefits of each, in the article) and i really think it speaks to the point that i am most inclined to roll with…. versatility. if we have versatility of scheme, we need less INDIVIDUAL versatility, and we don’t need to play guys out of position, or whatever. somewhere else, someone wrote of Chan being too package oriented: i couldn’t disagree more. The NFL is all about matchups, and not giving your opponent an advantage. i feel, that 34 masks intentions, allows more backup, and can bring as much pressure, perhaps more, while not putting the rest of the squad out of position. so, i guess, after watching Tom Brady SHRED 43 defenses his whole career, along with most other elite QBs, 34 seems like it at least allows disguising of our intentions, while not giving up an advantage to the opponent.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Thats is all true!
But you need freaks of nature to play the D-line positions along with the OLB’s. If you can find those guys………by all means! You can be versatile with a 4-3 too. My preferred defense is a Bullough-Fairbanks 3-4, need lots of great athletes though. Any other version of the 3-4 is easily preyed on by the offense. The Bullough-Fairbanks 3-4 shows no tendencies.
agree
and B-F is my preferred 34 too, of course, but like you said: requires freaks. that said: we started to find those guys, from inside out, like we should, and then we are gonna just cut our losses, and give up, and settle? that sucks.
it isn’t like with a man corner, and a couple LBs, that we couldn’t have a legit 34 potential. Even if guys like McGee, or FLorence, or Merriman, or Kelsay had to be reverted to depth. I think we are closer to finishing the transition than some might think, and though you are right about our DL numbers, i think that our defensive lineman are all better suited for a 34 than a 43, carrington, dareus, and heard, in particular.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Don't agree
I think we are a long ways away because of the OLB’s. the most critical component besides a dominant NT. Heard would do fine as a DT. With those big guys inside who is going to block the LB’s. Carrington is a true 3-4 DE and it would be hard to see him fit in a 4-3. To be honest, right now I see Dareus as DT unless he gets up to like 380. Guys like Wilfork, Ngata, and BJ Raji are physical freaks! 400lb guys who are agile.
raji is 337 lbs
wilfork is 325
ngata is 330
by lord gloom on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
indeed.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
and ngata played DE in their scheme
most of his career thus far.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah sure
One guy in a broadcast said Wilfork is over 400 lbs. What are those. I guarantee everyone of those guys weighs more than that. Well, I’m not gonna sit here and argue the point anymore cause its moot. They will more than likely be playing a 4-3 next year!
I believe NFL.com had Pat Williams listed at 320 pounds for a while….riiiiiiiiiiight.
Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)
1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 3, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
That was before
breakfast lol
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
fun exhange
Real and Bob, well argued by both of you
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 3, 2012 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
Brady
Won’t shred a 4-3 with exceptional linemen, he wouldn’t have the time. The only version that truly hides it’s intentions is the Bullough-Fairbanks 3-4. Every other over-under scheme is easy to diagnose. See the performance of both the Patriot and Dallas’s defenses which use over-under schemes.
the two DTs can still command a double team, and that leaves our weak DEs to be the difference makers, which was why we have had NO pass rush for years anyway. That is my primary issue here. We don’t HAVE exceptional lineman, outside of Dareus and WIlliams, and they can use a TE, or friggin RB to chip Kelsay… so… they can devote their most athletic lineman (LT) to cover our “wildcard” DE- as IMO we don’t even have another DE, and we would need to get one. Carrington, S Johnson, Heard, Dotson, Troup, Jasper: all are DTs in a 43, none are DEs in a 43. that leaves us with Kelsay, and MAYBE merriman. Not exactly building if we take everyone out of their new prospective 34 de roles, and make them WAY MORE DTs than we need, with NO DEs. from my perspective at least.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 2, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well like you said earlier
What about putting Moats and Batten at DE for the 4-3, both played DE in college. This would make it to where we’d need to upgrade one OLB position. I think that wouldn’t need to be the case cause we have guys like Andre Davis and Kirk Morrison who could be used as OLB in the 4-3.And, if the team felt that Carrington was athletic enough to play 3-4 OLB, then why couldn’t he play 4-3 DE? Also, I really think that you’re getting confused a little bit about a base 4-3 and the Tampa 2 4-3 that was run by Dick Jauron. The Tampa 2 uses a smaller front 7 to try to swarm to the ball. We don’t have to play the Tampa 2 to run a 4-3 base.
On a side note, the only guy that I would feel bad about possibly losing because of the switch would be Brian Scott cause his hybrid S/LB position would be completely gone.
I really think that you’re getting confused a little bit about a base 4-3 and the Tampa 2 4-3 that was run by Dick Jauron.
negative. read the rest of my posts referring to the Bears, the Vikes, etc… i know the difference. it isnt the point.
Hypothetical: Patriots come out in 2 WR 2TE 1 RB set (21) and the put Gronk and Hernandez both on the left side of the field, which is the wide side in this instance. Do you really think we can cover either with Byrd? NO. SO…. should we want to man cover, we need to use both our ROLB and MLB to cover those guys, leaving either a DE to drop back, or allow a completely open flat, for either TE, or the RB, or welker to get to, and we have NO ONE THERE. i fully understand the 43. it has significant deficiencies when attempting to match athletic TEs and they have 2 of them. I look at that, and think "if only we were in 3-4, and could have an extra LB to cover that flat, we wouldn’t be at such a disadvantage. That is ONE hypothetical instance.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Bears play the Tampa 2
So that right there tells me that you don’t understand the difference. The Vikings I’m not as sure of their version but from the little I’ve watched of them I could agree with running their version.
Now as for you’re hypothetical, you’d end up either putting someone like Bryan Scott or another DB on Hernandez due to his speed. Then you hope that you’re DE can get a piece of Gronk not allowing him to get a clean release and then double him with a safety high and a backer low. There is a reason why both of them are such dominate TEs and that’s because Hernandez is more like an oversized receiver and Gronk is arguably one of the best TE to play the game.
they did play a tampa 2. now, it more closely resembles a 43, as they are sacrificing speed, for size. Tampa 2 is usually characterized by sure tacklers in the secondary, and giving up size for speed. although they certainly have good tacklers in their secondary, no one on that defense is all that fast, anymore. they play a fair amount of zone, for sure, but they play a good amount of man coverages as well.
since the addition of Briggs, and Peppers, as well as already having urlacher, Tillman and bowman are both over 6’ corners… and so… i don’t agree with your assesment. they feature DTs that are over 300, DEs that are near 300, a MLB that is 240, their smallest linebackers are still around 230… a far cry from ‘traditional’ tampa 2 personnel, and far closer to a 43.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Tom Brady SHRED 43 defenses his whole career, along with most other elite QBs
HAHAHAHA
Brady sure shredded that Giants 4-3 in the last superbowl.
Remember that the Patriots were undefeated, and Brady got beat down all day by the Giants 4-3. I had never seen him take a beating like that before.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 3, 2012 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
oh, ok..... 1 game ever, erases the rest of a decade?
not how i see it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 3, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Because
They become rigid in there thinking. You adapt your philosophy to the talent at hand!
talent at hand
Or talent in hand? Sorry, I’m leaving:)
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
REC, and i did like those TV dinners when i was young and living on my own “Chix swanson”
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jan 2, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
We just got better on D
and we didn’t have to make any free agency moves! I am with everyone who endorses Wanny as our DC.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
Three CHEERS for Edwards out!!!!!!
Some of the names people come up with for their kids start the kids out neck deep in social hell.
Let me say!
I hate to see a coach get fired, however, it was justified. I mean he was less than average calling a game, just doesn’t feel it. Schematically, he did some things that were just not fundamentally sound. I also didn’t see a whole lot of individual improvement by the players. All in all, he wasn’t getting it done. The Bills made the right choice. It will be interesting to see what washes out here. Wannstedt is a 4-3 guy. You may arguably have the best defensive tackle tandem in Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus. Kelsay also showed flashes when employed as a 4-3 end. It will be interesting to see if there is a philosophy change in defensive thinking or a rift between Nix and Gailey on philosophy. Stay tuned.
I don't think....
a “rift” is occurring, but I think Chan needs help… Not just this move, but he needs to bring in a real OC so he can focus on things like, ya know, being a head coach???
I think that may be another move coming this week…
JMHO…
Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!
Modkins out?
Or just demoted to ‘clipboard holder’? (as if that’d change anything.)
If Ryan Fitzpatrick does not take the Bills to the Big Game, ever, I will run through Harvard's campus wearing a Yale jersey. I am that sure. Or that crazy.
by Orlando John on Jan 2, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
The head coach is a manager, not to say he couldn’t have input on offensive philosophy.
Okay, I'm feeling this.
The Senator kept trying to tell us that it was on the team for not executing as well as possible, but the plan wasn’t there most of the year either. Kudos for making a ‘we want to win soon’ move like this.
About the fronts: They’re lucky they drafted a guy many people say isn’t a real end anyway, and tell you the truth did his best work this year at nose. So maybe they can go back to base 4-3 immediately with Meatball up front. The question then becomes who to draft… the last mock had Quintin Couples from NC, as a DE, as the pick. I wonder if we’ll want him if we’re switching fronts. Still, I think Dave will play whoever plays best in whatever scheme works. But rest assured, what worked earlier this year… didn’t really work. Kudos to the DB coach for getting the best out of 37, 31, 25 and 23, but we can’t plan on being +3 in picks anymore.
If Ryan Fitzpatrick does not take the Bills to the Big Game, ever, I will run through Harvard's campus wearing a Yale jersey. I am that sure. Or that crazy.
Promotion
Figure if the bills start off stow wansdat will be getting another promotion real quick
Goin off the rails on the "missin' for griffin" train
by J. Mackin on Jan 2, 2012 11:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What?
Stow? Means slow but still ????
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Oh HC!!
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 2, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
maybe i should have gone with "Wannstedt as the DC? This is great!"
and left it at that… many others probably would have preferred it- but it just isn’t how I see it. I think we could have done better, and we didn’t even try. You don’t have to agree. I never said I was right, and “you” were wrong… Just that I feel like it was the simplest, most forseeable solution: and the path of least resistance is rarely the route I would choose to go, if talking about any NFL team, let alone MY FAVORITE NFL TEAM.
final thought of the night:
We should promote Modkins to OC, so Chan doesn’t have so much on his plate. I mean, calling plays, game planning, being the QB coach, scheming, and then being the offensive coordinator too? maybe he should promote someone to share the workload.
Wait, what?!?! He IS the offensive coordinator? Could have fooled me. Perhaps, we could let the RB coach, handle the RBs, and then maybe our OC could take a little off the Head Coach’s plate, so that he can be.. idk…. the Head Coach?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Nice move but..
…If Nix don’t get more talent on D it will still be a case of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken poo. Some developing talent but still needs a fair bit of work.
THE +++++BUFFALO CRUSHERS ++++++. WHAGON BLASTERS ++++ ARE THE REAL DEAL WE ARE THE YING AND THE YANG . SO GET READY CAUSE NO ONE I MEAN NO ONE IS STOPIN THE WHAGON BLASTER BUYAAAAAAA - Abayarde
I
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
like
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
600
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
writing was on the wall when Wannstedt was hired
I knew this was the case when they hired Dave. I think most peopel did. I think Wannstedt will do a grrat job getting these players to be more mean and motivated to shut people down. I think with Kyle and Marcell we are better suited to play a 4-3.. Those 2 healthy will be nasty..Barnett and Shepp and Kelsay if he keeps playing the way he has been to earn that 5 mill a year. Wannstedt will improve our defense just by being the man behind the scheme.

by 





























