2012 Senior Bowl Live Discussion Thread
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2012 4:00 PM EST
in 2012 NFL Draft
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PrintThe 2012 Senior Bowl is underway in Mobile, Alabama this afternoon, with most of the nation's top senior 2012 NFL Draft prospects on the field for the all-star game. Leslie Frazier (Minnesota) and Mike Shanahan (Washington) are coaching the teams up this year, and we're sure a few of you want to talk about the game as you watch it. (Also, to those few, congratulations on having NFL Network.)
You can check out the North and South rosters before tuning in to familiarize yourselves with the bigger names. Which prospects are you most interested in keeping track of today?
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I wonder what round Weeden will be drafted in because he is 28 years old?
3rd, 4th, 5th?
Might be a nice pickup for us in the 5th if he falls that far.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 4:13 PM EST reply actions
I am more than willing
to pick Weeden with one of our 4th round picks.
He looked pretty good, no?
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
I've herd that he's a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
And only because of his age, otherwise he’s be a low first rounder.
Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
I said all along that Weeden is the 3rd best QB in this draft class, a lot of people let his age scare them. He looked real good on his drives so far.
that was supposed to be a reply to the prior post
no idea why it didnt end up that way
Still loving Vnny Curry
I want him in the 2nd. He’s getting in there
same here
and as i posted yesterday, i worry that his play can elevate him beyond the early second… and we would have to move for him, or reach for him. I really like him.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Can anyone help me out. What network is this playing on?
You’d be an even bigger help if you knew what network its on north of the border. But if I know where its on in the US its usually pretty easy to know where it will be on up here. I just can’t find it yet.
Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2012 4:56 PM EST reply actions
NFL Network brother.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
such bs
I hate the network.
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
by billsoferie on Jan 28, 2012 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Nice I can watch it up here!
right after the Snowboard Big Air is done on the Winter X games.
Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
And thanks!
Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Coples doing all he can to say no motor what. Dominating all week then unblockable today.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Jan 28, 2012 5:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I Hope.....
Just get a young QB prospect with nice potential to replace thigpen…..sigh.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
yea
I would just be happy to get Kellen Moore post the 5th round. Someone who has won may not be conventional.
Weeden i mean age does matter. You don’t use a pick before the 5th round on a backup quarterback. Especially one that wont get a look till they are 30.
He would make sense for a team like the Eagles who are sure their qb wont be able to start every game during the season. He could step in and be a solid quarterback
im a u fan
so im keeping my eye on sean spence. he works hard to be undersized.
by lets go buffalo on Jan 28, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
moore has looked miserable at times ugly in senior bowl… he hasnt had one good moment…
i read one guy who said he looks more like a guy who has come to senior bowl for autographs…
no way he is the next brees
by statcruncher on Jan 28, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
he had a mediocre week of practice, but that shouldnt completely negate his stellar college career. i dont think hes the next drew brees, but he was exceptional in college and he made a couple of NFL level throws earlier in this game that were dropped by posey and (i think) mcnutt.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Hard Time
You know if Upshaw and Ingram were 6-3 or 6-5 i think both would be pegged like a Terrell Suggs.
Ingram i love because he is such an athletic freak. He can cover, he is pretty good at catching the ball.
Then you have players like Dont’a Hightower.
I wish it was the top prospects that play in the game then just the seniors, but alas still good to see a variety of rounds i suppose
My draft is looking clear
First round coples, he is the disruptive pass rusher in this game. Second round brown, our outside linebacker in the 43 defense. Plays fast and instinctive.
by edrick88 on Jan 28, 2012 5:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I ave not been impressed by Coples at all here.
Upshaw on the other hand is impressing me. Just got a “coverage” sack.
Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
not impressed?
You’re joking right? Coples looks like a beast.
I am big on Upshaw, but Coples is looking pretty good in this game, and I heard he looked great in drills all week too. I don’t think we’d regret getting either guy in the draft
exactly
its one thing to say you dont trust coples… it’s totally other to say coples hasnt impressed in senior bowl…
he has been a monster… judging by just senior bowl, no way you cannot be impressed
by statcruncher on Jan 28, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
of course coples is playing well, theres money on the line.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Jan 28, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm wondering...
About the draft order after the 1st round because wont we be rotating after the 1st round with the Panthers and the Dolphins since we all have the same record at 6-10
So we could get the #8 pick in the 2nd round
- in the 3rd and then #10 and the ravens pick in the 4th??
its a 3 way rotation just like last year
so it will be 10th in 1st, 9th in 2nd, 8th in 3rd, 10th in 4th….
by statcruncher on Jan 28, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Adams
he could definitetly fit that slot wr/punt returner Nix is looking for with Parrish likely not coming back. he’s looking pretty good aside from that fumble.
by anems12 on Jan 28, 2012 6:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
my bad
i post below that no one had mentioned him, i missed your comment.
I totally agree… and that fumble was more a great play by the corner, than it was all on him. That said: I agree with you that we have that need, he would fill it perfectly, and my question is: what round? Based solely off this game, he could be a 3-4th… maybe even a late 2nd.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
a couple things ive seen so far: upshaw has been invisible. mike adams is routinely swallowing him whole.
curry dominated a handful of snaps
hayward is a very smart cornerback
fuller stinks
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
of course i write that and upshaw immediately gets a sack. but as mayock said: it was a coverage sack. mike adams won that snap but the QB held onto it too long
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Yeah….. neither couples or upshaw have really impressed me today.
They are playing against college guys. Wait til the get to play the big boys in the NFL.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
that makes no sense
i dont know which rusher you are high on…. lets call him X
so if X plays well that’s good but if coples plays well then he is playing against college guys?
these are the same guys who will go on to become big boys in nfl
by statcruncher on Jan 28, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not impressed brother.
Just my opinion.
I want to be blown away by the 10th pick.
And these two don’t do it for me.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
If Coples hasn’t impressed you no one will because he played really good. It is also one game. Its like saying Drew Brees is not impressive because he had a bad game at the Pro Bowl.
And that’s your opinion.
Its not mine.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Off Topic
On the other thread, I asked if you heard Wannstadt’s comments on Sirius XM, or somewhere else? I’m trying to find the comments somewhere. Thanks.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
I guess I should have been more specific DJ.......
I replied to you man.
I said I heard it on Sirius, NFL Radio, at precisely 0930 am Central Time, while driving home from Krogers (my wife is sick so I went and got her some Ginger Ale and Gingersnaps, good for an upset tummy), while plucking strawberries out of the box.
They interviewed the Stache. The entire time all they talked about was what he thought about Tom Brady and the Giants since we played them both. He picked the Pats to win by the way.
At the end of the interview, they FINALLY said, “Just a quick question (about your sorr-*ss Bills) will you run a 3-4 or a 4-3 next year?”
He immediately said, “4-3.”
And this makes me happy.
:-)
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
ugh
the only thing I have to say about any of that…. is, I hope your wife is feeling better.
Other than that: this whole thing makes me sick. every word. 2 years wasted on picking the wrong players for Chan’s buddy (ha! forgive that pun i guess) and now we are going to have 47 defensive tackles, and no DEs. At least our slow corners can play more cover 2, and we won’t ever run out of defensive tackles, and we have 2 out of 3 Lbs. of course, we have 0 more apparently (morrison? where does he play?)…. I just don’t understand.
I don’t mean this rant as any sort of attack. I appreciate the upside of 43. I don’t see it as “unimportant” because a roster shape is dependent on philosophy, and switching it around all the time is no way to develop consistency to me.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I do not take it as any kind of attack at all.
Everyone is as frustrated as you.
But at least now we know what direction we are going in.
Think ……. Call our new defensive line Semi Truck NASCAR.
Like the Giants, but bigger and fatter.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
The point of being a good coach
Is getting the most out of your talent. If these kids (like Carrington) have talent, they will shine in the new system. Look what Wade did with Houston last year. He took a good defense and made it a great one.
I am not saying the Stache can do the same in Buffalo this year, but, talent finds a way.
huge difference tho. wade had lots and lots and lots of talent that he inherited on that defense. combine it with rookie studs like watt and reed, and a really good FA pick up like jefferson, and he had literally everything he needed to field a great defense.
the same cannot be said for coach mustache
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
I do not take it as any kind of attack at all
Good. I just didn’t want you to feel like I was jumping on your case. I just am not excited about it at all, though, like you said, it is good to know one way or the other. I just worry that you could be right about a bigger version of the giants or the bears, but the problem is, if we still don’t bring pressure, we need to cover longer, with bigger slower guys. So, it is basically an extreme version, of the worst case scenario, that we have already been dealing with FOREVER (unless you consider the before time, in the long long ago, when we had Bruce.)
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
I always enjoy reading your comments.
Heck, I enjoy reading everyone’s comments. They always make me think about things a little differently.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i feel the same
and mutually. (which are slightly different i will add)
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Don't get sick yet
I’m writing a story on how transitioning back to the 4-3 isn’t that big of a deal. At the end of the day, the only guys that don’t have defined spots are Moats and Batten. Dareus, Sheppard, and Carrington, the only Day 1-2 front seven picks that Nix has made, are fits. So is Dwan Edwards.
Merriman can play end, if he’s ready to go at all. Andra Davis isn’t really a fit, but he’s a free agent and gone anyway.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
I knew you were is disbillief, (See that) but I was just glad to hear somebody in our organization have the balls to tell us what the heck we are going to do on defense.
By the way, don’t forget the Troop and Heard in a healthy Mac-truck NASCAR depth rotation.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
They're all included
I finished the story about an hour ago. You’ll be surprised how seamless this transition could be. And how great the Bills DT and left DE depth is.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
And how great the Bills DT and left DE depth is.
of course we have DT depth!!! ALL OUR LINE IS 43 DTs! hahaha. That is my primary issue. we are gonna cut guys we spent time developing, and then asking the rest to change roles- some of them back, some of them new to it, some of them won’t convert, and I just don’t understand OTHER than because of one guy, who I don’t endorse simply because Chan does. That is where I am at, in a very general sense.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
We won't cut anyone of importance
Williams and Dareus are locks. So is Troup. Dwan Edwards fits at DT. Carrington and Kelsay can split at LDE.
Who did we develop, that’s of any importance, that’s going to get cut? Heard? Jarron Gilbert? Kyle Moore? They might have gotten cut even if Buffalo kept a 3-4.
As for the linebackers, Barnett, Sheppard, and White are fits. Batten and Moats don’t really have a good spot. Merriman can fit in at right end and/or a situational pass rusher, if he’s even healthy.
So, who did Buffalo waste time on? Batten? Moats? Both 6th rounders.
In terms of coverting, the only players that are really making big moves are Carrington, Kelsay, Batten and Moats. Carrington played OLB in training camp, so he’s capable of moving outside. Kelsay’s easy – he used to be a DE. Batten and Moats make significant moves, but again, they’re 6th rounders.
As you’ll see when the story posts, for most players, it’s a positive move.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
So, who did Buffalo waste time on? Batten? Moats? Both 6th rounders.
Everyone. All of the individuals we spent 2 years converting. All of the individuals we spent 2 years teaching. All the individuals we spent with 1 year on the fly this year.
It is only the fact that they didn’t get the offseason, that in a way, we haven’t seen CLOSE to what they can do, especially in the 43, since they have more familiarity (except Dareus, who ran basically our exact system) and so, maybe it will end up a great move. But to me, Byrd isn’t a 43 safety, even though he did really well his first year. Perhaps his improvement in run support will mean his overall success, as I feel he fit the 34 system amazingly, since the safeties need to tackle less, but he stuck his nose in when he had to.
The only people I feel this move truly helps is our slow corners, and our 2 MLBs, one of whom has to become a OLB. All in all, I am not nearly as optimistic: obviously.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're kind of going a little too far
Who did Buffalo truly convert? The only players left from the Jauron defenses are Kelsay, Spencer Johnson, and Kyle Williams. Williams’ role never really changed. Kelsay a vet, and getting him back to a 4-3 won’t be hard at all. Johnson got yanked around a bit, but he’s a minor depth player.
All the young players: Dareus, Carrington, Troup, Sheppard, Moats and Batten have only known one defense. So they didn’t get converted in the first place. And except for Dareus, they all played in 4-3 defenses in college.
I don’t get the Byrd comment, unless you’re linking Buffalo’s horrible run defense in the Tampa 2 to Byrd having to make tackles. Wannstadt’s defense isn’t the Tampa 2. His defenses in Miami and Dallas were’t run on. Byrd should make no more tackles than he does now.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
All the young players: Dareus, Carrington, Troup, Sheppard, Moats and Batten have only known one defense. So they didn’t get converted in the first place. And except for Dareus, they all played in 4-3 defenses in college.
Dareus ran the 34. The rest changed from the 43… where they relearned their positions, in a way. Now, they are changing back to PERHAPS arguably to their original roles, but that doesn’t mean their inherently better roles. I happened to like the majority of what i saw of them, in both the 34, and the nickel… and was hoping to see further development. This, “hiccup” if you will, can cost time. Of that, there certainly can’t be much question, right? We will likely play an almost entirely new, different system. So anything done prior, is basically a wash. They had time in 43 when it was lower comp, and have been learning on the go since, and that will continue to be the case, even in the Regime’s 3rd year. My questioning the methodology certainly is warranted, at least to some degree.
I don’t get the Byrd comment, unless you’re linking Buffalo’s horrible run defense in the Tampa 2 to Byrd having to make tackles. Wannstadt’s defense isn’t the Tampa 2. His defenses in Miami and Dallas were’t run on. Byrd should make no more tackles than he does now.
Sorry dude, but I am linking it to ALL the poor run defenses of which he has been a part to, and even to the ones he hasn’t in a way. I attribute the 43 in this instance as a poor bandaid. It is their simplest, easiest solution, to a problem that wouldn’t even exist if not for Wannstedt being hired. That is my primary issue. I rather keep George Edwards and let the players adjust on the fly with no gameplan, and the same system in place. The issue was mostly a lack of personnel, and I don’t see how this change corrects it, when rather, I see it compounding it. You don’t have to agree. I will happily read in full detail why you feel differently. But, for now, the way i see it, we still have many of the same needs, and we are taking a step backwards. You can assume/hope/wish for it to result in two steps forward. But right now- we should at least be catching a light jog… or else we are gonna end in the same place: rebuilding with a new crew of guys who may or may not get it done.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, let's just shelve this debate until the story posts
There’s a lot that I’d like to say that’s already said in the story. Plus, this is getting thin.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
werd.
and word.
i am interested for sure in further discussion.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Simply put
All our top players like Dareus, Williams, Sheppard (MIKE), Merriman (SAM), Aaron Williams, Byrd, Searcy, Wilson can all play in a 4-3. With a great 4-3 DE, we’d have a fantastic front 4 with Kelsay/Carrington playing the left side and Merriman playing SAM. There is no question at all that Kyle & Marcel in the middle would be one of the top duos in the league.
Moats & Batten are the two only question marks really so why not? Why do we care so much about two late rounders that haven’t done anything really in 2 years? Our D-Coordinator is better at the 4-3 and Coples could very well be available at 10. I personally prefer the 3-4 but i’ll be the first to admit that switching back to a 4-3 makes sense if we can find that elusive DE for the right side.
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
I've never been a fan of the 3-4
I’ll take a good 4-3 any day.
That said, it’s all about the players on defense. Give me the 2000 Ravens, and we could get them to be great playing a 5-2.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
certainly have the D line/ LB core for a 5-2
seriously. it would probably be the best thing we could do, if we had athletic safeties that can still be tall enough to help in coverage on tall vertical threats when the CBs/LBs are outmatched.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I’m writing a story on how transitioning back to the 4-3 isn’t that big of a deal.
I look forward to it, but I won’t lie- I already disagree with you. I didn’t care to get into it the other day, as I am just not looking for a huge argument, but rather, maybe some discussion. That said: I see the roster far differently I believe, and at this point I am already suspect because it seems like a backpedal. I think it is going to be hard enough for us to cover TEs… without going back to a system that we need even more OLBs than we need with the 34. If that were somehow possible.
Regardless- i look forward to the read, and maybe we can wax ecstatic at that time. For right now- i am going to sit and process and deal with what could be the worst news since the conference championships. At very least, i can follow Ruxin’s lead (i love that show) – and consider this whole entire lockout season a sham, and pretend it never happened, sometime in the hopefully not so distant future, when we make some kind of progress, rather than spinning our tires, as we switch back and forth from park and reverse..
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Couple thoughts
When everyone was pinning for the 3-4 a couple off-seasons ago, I warned everybody that Buffalo wouldn’t be able to cover tight ends. I said it in almost every game review in the “bad” section in 2010. There wasn’t much Buffalo was going to do to cover tight ends in a 3-4. Guys like Gronkowski and Hernandez are best against 3-4 defenses.
There aren’t a whole lot of 3-4 outside or inside linebackers that can stay with tight ends. Manny Lawson? Lawrence Timmons? When a team finds a guy like that, like a Julian Peterson, they hold onto them. They’re hard to find.
In a 4-3, the outside linebacker is a completely different animal, which you already know. But they can cover tight ends, or at least have a better shot at it.
The move does open a hole at the strongside outside linebacker. But finding that type of player can be done rather easily in free agency and the draft. Manny Lawson, Joe Mays, Rocky McIntosh, and maybe even Barrett Ruud could play there, with Lawson and McIntosh as legitimate starters.
There are a ton of 4-3 strongside linebackers in the draft. They are among the easiest position to find. Lavonte David, Zach Brown, and Travis Lewis are possible second rounders. Demarrio Davis could be available in the 3rd round. It’s an easy position to fill.
And, as you’ll see when the story prints, Buffalo will have amazing depth at DT and LDE. It’s a good move. I have more to say regarding this thought, mostly to do with Belichick, but will save it for the story discussion.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
In a 4-3, the outside linebacker is a completely different animal, which you already know. But they can cover tight ends, or at least have a better shot at it.
here though, I disagree to a large degree, as the safeties both shoulder a tremendous amount of this burden, particularly with the vertical pass threat sort (like you mention) and for that reason- i am even LESS comfortable, though George did help make some adjustments against Gronk the first time around- and few teams have an answer for that kid. An answer may not truly exist.
But what I do know is we have NO edge LBs, and we are going to take the ones we do, and try and put them at DE to have a few of them at all, and then draft some guy (s) that are going to translate right away, and if not- then we are right where i said: bigger, and slower, and not getting pressure, which is too similar to the cocktail i have been fed too long.
Not to mention the fact that now that we expose our safeties, and our LBs and force them into a situation where they seem incapable, they get attacked that much harder, and then we are on our heels the whole time, unless we somehow make a big play. It may as well we the tampon 2, if we still don’t get pressure. I FAR PREFER we go with MORE man to man coverage, but we don’t have close to enough talent, and I just don’t believe that we are going to be able to add it in a single draft, let alone while changing schemes, while we try to find our “identity” while…. blah blah i am rambling.
Moral is: No sir, I don’t like it.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
You’re placing too much emphasis on the safeties. The 4-3 gives the defense 3-4 players that can cover the tight end. In the 3-4, only the safeties can cover the tight end. Buffalo has more flexibility in the 4-3 in how it chooses to cover the tight ends it faces.
I see where you’re coming from at DE, but it’s really the right end that fits what you’re saying. Kelsay and Carrington fit at left end. And getting Carrington on the outside might be what he needs. The same hole at OLB is the same hole at DE. The hole was there regardless of the alignment.
How are Buffalo’s safeties getting exposed? It’s not like Buffalo is going to go get a bunch of 225 linebackers. They’ve still got Sheppard and Barnett. Just because a team goes 4-3 doesn’t mean they get soft. Cincinnato has one of the toughest defenses in the league, and it’s a 4-3.
If Buffalo goes and gets Cliff Avril (or even Mario Williams), this defense makes a 15 place jump. But that would’ve happened in the 3-4 too.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
You’re placing too much emphasis on the safeties.
The final line of defense dude? that surely isn’t a useless role, and is certainly involved in TE vertical threat coverage: which we regularly got exploited by. not to mention the fact that it is even more pivotal when we don’t have LBs that can cover TEs, and we are drafting DEs/LBs to be DE/LBs who don’t cover either.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
If Buffalo goes and gets Cliff Avril (or even Mario Williams), this defense makes a 15 place jump. But that would’ve happened in the 3-4 too.
right. and that is my issue too. If we stay the course, we can still keep building, and we can get there, MAYBE quicker. Now, we almost succumb to circumstance (that we create ourselves) in order to maybe hold ourselves back. it makes no sense.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
See above
Recommend we save this debate until the story posts. More room. This is getting thin.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
@ThaRealTruth
Stay calm, my friend. Nix has drafted players who are versatile. They played a lot of 43 last season. And they will play some 34 looks this season, more than likely on passing downs.
But Dareus, Williams, Barnett, Sheppard, Merriman, Kelsay are guys that can play in either system. The guy who should be really happy is Spencer Johnson. He can go back to his natural position.
dude. it is absolutely nothing like that.
coples coming in and having a good week at the senior bowl (when theres money to be made) will not let me forget the hilariously lazy senior season that he had.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
there isn’t a whole ton of money on the line because he won’t be able to elevate his draft status. he will go between 6 and 10 which is the same as if he didn’t go to the senior bowl. With the rookie wage scale its all the same.
that is assumptive
in that those same teams might just as easily reconsider using those same picks on a part time performer.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
that is true too, but with a lot of teams drafting on straight talent someone is likely to draft him in that range regardless especially with no injury history. NFL network constantly said that he seemed to be associating with a lot of other players, but I respect your side of it
i never said there isn't anything to like about him
I am a fan, to a degree. I think camaraderie is important, for sure. I think it shows that he can have mutual respect. That was cool for me to see.
I feel he has played about as well as expected, but didn’t WOW per say, as Sarge kinda implied. At the same time, I agree with DJ below, where he brings up that he needs to at least perform pretty well, to not fall, but that he won’t really move much… I would hope that he would be working to get from 6-10, to 1-5.
That said, it matters to be healthy… and he is performing pretty well… and all that plays into this pre-draft season also. I just think to be in the “Julius Peppers” mode- he should be more high motor than I have been seeing. He IS being patient, and intelligent though, getting his hands up and such.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Sure there is
Coples is a 6 to 10 overall pick guy now. He can’t really go higher with a good performance.
But he can certainly go lower. If he came in and stunk like he did at UNC for his senior year, he would’ve dropped like a rock. Remember when Carlos Dunlap was a shoe-in top ten pick? Michael Johnson? All three are similar. The latter two dropped in the off-season after their last college season was less than special.
Coples is playing hard to maintain his stock, not elevate it. And in that case, there are millions on the line. Even if he drops to the middle of the first, he’s giving up about a million dollars over the life of his rookie contract. After factoring in money for his agent, that’s a large piece of change.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
i was about to type something similar. thank you for articulating it a lot better than i could have
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Like I said I see both sides but Coples has been compared to Julius Peppers which is where he separates from Johnson and Dunlap. Coples had 8 sacks with a bad motor (i agree with you his tape is bad) and getting double teamed so I just didn’t see him falling
I hear you
and comment just above about this very matter…. I don’t see “high motor” in this game per say. I do so patience, technique, and all in all solid, though somewhat conservative play. I think he is solid. I just don’t know if I love him at 10.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Coples has been compared to Julius Peppers
that comparison is totally bogus. its a very lazy way to analyze a guy’s talents. coples isnt near the speedy athletic phenom that peppers is/was. its not even close
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
I do disagree with the people that say that it is only because of money that he is playing better. If you were to wave that kind of money in front of us, would we be able to do what he has done? I don’t think so. You either can beat the guy in front of you or you can’t. Adding money in the equation won’t make someone better.
? its about motivation. coples has the talent to be an all pro player, but that wont happen if hes not playing the game with intensity.
all year, when that money wasnt being waved in front of his face, he was playing like he didnt give a damn about winning.
thats the issue with coples: once hes got the money, will he keep playing like he is tonight at the senior bowl or will he revert back to the hesitant guy everyone saw during the 2011 season? when you dont even know what kind of effort to expect from a play, thats a big risk to take for such a high draft pick
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
for a time i thought what you are right now, but if you look at everyone who do you want over Coples? The Bills offensive line stats although potentially misleading were good with an injury riddled second half. I just think going defense is logical with that pick
i dont focus so much on defense vs. offense. i want the guy who, among everyone on left on the board, is going to have the best NFL career. thats really the long and short of it as far as im concerned. take the best player so long as hes not a running back or offensive guard, as those are the 2 strongest positions on the team.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
I’m curious who you think that is since I have only seen 2 guys: Coples and Upshaw. I like both but with Coples motor issue and outside of the coverage sack Upshaw didn’t really do much. Ingram didn’t either. I just am curious about a fellow Bills’ fan’s opinion
curry
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by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
agree
and since we are looking at combinations for picks still (assuming you can address needs with bpa at 3-4 spots)
we could go WR/DE/CB
or OLB/WR/CB
or CB/DE/WR
etc etc etc.
so looking at how you can combine selections to both have an impact player, who can start relatively soon (if not immediately) and then do that multiple times in the same draft- which means having a strategy to some degree, as far as not just which guy you want, but which guys you can get together, and then finally- whether BPA trumps that selection altogether because they are just too good to pass.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
quarterback is priority number 1. if nix and gailey fall in love with tannehill or osweiler or somebody, he should absolutely be the bills’ pick if available.
after that who knows.
theres a slight possibility that blackmon falls to them, as receivers something of an undervalued position.
brockers (DT from LSU) is an absolute monster. kirkpatrick is a big time cornerback from bama, but he got caught with weed and hes got some character questions now.
offensive tackle seems unlikely, as buddy hasnt appeared to like using premium picks on them
micheal floyd is a big bodied receiver theyll take a long look at.
on the pass rushing front, im big on hightower and perry’s potential, and bruce irvins a name ive had circled for a while
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Do you think that it is possible that you are focusing more on his negative plays then on his positive plays? It definitely seemed like it to me in the fanpost that included your analysis of his play against Missouri.
darn right i am focusing on his negative plays. as i said in that fanpost, if im building an NFL locker room, there is no spot in it for anyone that im not 100% sure lives and breathes football.
coples’ negative plays arent typically of the “someone else beat me in a 1-on-1” or “ive been giving it my all and am starting to tire out” variety. his negative plays are of the “god, i dont want to get hurt” and “eh, i think my teammates got this one” variety. thats why i focus on them, because thats a huge issue for me if im an NFL GM.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Jan 28, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you do criticize Bills players that have done the same thing? I had the luxury to watch four games this past year and I saw that multiple times in each game. Another thing that I don’t think that you are considering is the number of people that get injured from friendly fire each year. And he wasn’t standing there, like a certain Redskins player, while his teammates struggled to bring the guy down. Another thing. It isn’t a fair analysis if you only point out his negative plays that match your argument but ignore the ones that refute it.
ignore the ones that refute it.
but see, i dont think im doing that. i guess in general my point is that coples takes too many plays off and/or looks hesitant on too many plays for apparently the wrong reasons. i dont know that the presence of his good plays really refute my point. my point is based entirely on the existence of the poor plays i tried to describe. they occurred way too often over the course of nearly an entire season in my opinion
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
although I didn't see enough tape to really be anywhere near qualified to provide assessment:
i do think that I agree on the whole :
his negative plays are of the "god, i dont want to get hurt" and "eh, i think my teammates got this one" variety. thats why i focus on them, because thats a huge issue for me if im an NFL GM.
being a significant issue. i can’t say I have seen that, though in this game, I have noticed plays where it seemed there was less effort… But how much of that is strategic/coaching? they are playing pretty vanilla, and they might be trying to shift what they can here and there, to get other kids some exposure too. His tipped passes and sacks alone, show he is capable of individual effort, but are they asking him to play a team game as well? We really don’t have all the info. So, that I say, is just something you might consider as well, because I can sympathize with those feelings, based off his lackluster senior year. I don’t understand him, really. So, I wonder if there are some things that we aren’t aware of, and maybe it could come down to trying to be that locker room guy, because he hadn’t been, or something.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
if you follow what I mean.
Perhaps that “team element” that he is showing now, is something he wanted to focus more attention to, and that meant taking something of a lesser role.
Or: I am reading way too far into it, and he was just somehow lazy, and trying not to get injured, because he figures he will get picked early, and then we will get him to show up when he feels like, or when it matters, and nobody wants that guy on their team.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
We aren’t even taking into account he played DT last year either. He made a sudden switch against often the other teams best OL and often was double teamed so is it possible it wasn’t effort, but on the other hand he is talented enough to beat those double teams
and that is fair, as well.
I see what most teams will see: tons of upside/potential, some of which might never be reached, but whose ceiling could be nearly limitless. So you want play that matches. I think he can get there. The risk is relatively low. I am not against it at all. I am interested in seeing how explosive he is in the 40, and some hip swivel… but he will likely not fall much further than 15 unless he interviews TERRIBLY.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
AP22 linked a fanpost up there in which i tried to break down his tape vs. mizzou and point out a bunch of the plays i just described.
AP22 disagrees with my assessment, and thats fine. but take a look at it if you want. at the very least it is about specific plays instead of making generalizations
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
try telling that to Rosenhaus.
That guy banks over and again, at the top of the draft, year after year. He basically single handedly forced the NFL to change the entire CBA or risk making him far more reach, than even they might be likely to achieve if they hadn’t changed that system. he was making a coach’s salary, off each guy on average, at very very least.
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by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
wow.
rich. not reach. apparently I was doing my Speedy Gonzalez impression for that word.
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by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
You got a link that proves that?
That seems very low.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
yes
my guy mike adams….like i said earlier, i hope he rises enough that we can pick him at 10….
he is better than jonathan martin and others except riley reiff i guess…
if not him then bobbie massie
by statcruncher on Jan 28, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
since no one else has mentioned him:
Joe Adams available in the third? He does well enough in the combine, I say he is an instant starter in the slot, which we need, and we are going to be looking for someone like him.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
get out of my head man. ive done 2 mock drafts on here this season. one had curry in the second and the other had adams in the third. stop it.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
hahaha
sorry.
i WAS high on Curry before. i am now moreso. i do like Adams now, based off our need, and his relative value. I am now a Foles fan more too. I think he has the same things I saw from Levi Brown that could have been developed, and we basically only have 1 QB even at all (Fitz), in my eyes, and he is still someone I would like to eventually upgrade, so I think any big arm, tall QB that runs spread is at least in the conversation.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
i certainly don't think Ingram is a foregone conclusion in the first...
so maybe my buddy gets his dream- the bills will finally draft a first round ND kid- since he was high on Quinn, Clausen, and Rudolph… but then… he might have been high on something else too then.. cuz meh.
That said:
Even I am high on Michael Floyd. That kid is solid, and I would use 10 on him, if we can land Curry in the second (idk) and then if we got Adams, and then burned the rest of the picks on LBs/DBs…. i would be stoked. This is my first guestimate at anything yet… there is much subject to change come the combine… but I like all three of those kids enough.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
or upshaw
I think i mean. either really. I have seem a number of drafts with them considered as our first rounder.
I like the idea of Hightower, maybe more than what he actually is… but I friggin can’t wait for the combine. It is my favorite event of the year, because, well, I don’t get playoff games as a Bills fan. Hoping that my love of the combine will make it all that more rewarding when we end our drought.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Asked about Foles earlier and the reviews were pretty weak
I feel like if we look at what WE do, which is short passing, and quick routes, and spread formation: He looked good. Not stellar, but he has a strong enough arm for sure, good size, and he completed the only TD for the south… so… I am not exactly disappointed. I am interested in seeing who ends up at the combine, even just as a thrower.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
I like Foles
a lot. I don’t think he was in an offense that played to his strengths at the senior bowl. Wasn’t Shanny and the Skins coaching his squad?
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Foles kinda reminded me of a Chad Pennington kinda guy. That’s not a bad thing.
But not really a great thing.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Foles arm strength
is leaps, and bounds better than Penningtons though.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Foles didn't seem as accurate as Cousins
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
It was one game
Foles career numbers show him to be very accurate.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
yes, I know....better career completion percentage
I know very little about Foles career and why those number are what they are. Maybe they mean something….maybe they mean very little. What I do know is that in this game, Cousins consistently threw balls on time and with anticipation in tight spots where his receivers could make a play…..to bad for him his WRs dropped some very easy balls, or his number would be much more impressive. Cousins is also an intelligent, high character guy who can be had later in the draft….3rd-4th round, which is where I suspect CHIX will look for a QB if he is looking at all. Foles will be gone before CHIX are willing to take him.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
3rd-4th round, which is where I suspect CHIX will look for a QB if he is looking at all. Foles will be gone before CHIX are willing to take him.
i agree with all this, except that Foles couldn’t/won’t be there in the third.
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by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
that is what I meant.....
I think Foles will be gone before the 3rd too. I think Cousins could fall to the 3-4 rounds.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
For those of us
Who didn’t get to see the game, can we get a recap? I’d like to know who shined and who tanked.
players who had the best games in my eyes, in no particular order:
casey hayward, joe adams, coples, curry, mike adams, pead, martin.
the quarterbacks were all pretty ‘bleh’ i thought. they all had there moments, but they all also missed some throws. lindley prolly had the worst day and foles prolly had the best. kyle moore had 2 NFL level throws back-to-back that had more zip on them than i thought he was capable of, which is notable i think
as far as bad games, the only guys who really jumped out at me were fletcher, fuller, and posey. fletcher in particular had a really really rough game.
theres no doubt theres a ton that i missed. you can only see so much
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Joe Adams DID look pretty good, didn’t he?
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Kellen moore
Not kyle
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 28, 2012 8:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Joe, WR from Arkansas. Had a good game.
Mike OT from Ohio State looked pretty good too.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 28, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
yeah Mike Adams was definitely pretty good
I saw that too. I can’t wait to see some “big fatties” (says the fat guy) doing some long jumps. I love to see these guys show off their ridiculous athleticism, so people can appreciate why none of those other “skill” positions could even play without the lines. ; ) hhahaha.
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by ThaRealTruth on Jan 28, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Like said previously he us a wr from.ark. He has had a phenomenal week and the best seniorbowl
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Jan 28, 2012 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Juron Criner
I think he moved himself into the third round with his game today. He had 4 receptions on one drive alone when Folkes was throwing for the South.
Im wondering how much of that was that he was Foles favorite target in Arizona. I’d spend a 4th on him. Hes a good possession receiver, but i dont think we really need another wr like him. I see him like a stevie or a nelson, no great breakaway speed, but they can get open and will catch anything within their reach.
Foles I’ve honestly been high on for a long time. Ive followed him and Brooks Reed for the last few years.
by polar2292 on Jan 29, 2012 6:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i cant believe i forgot to bring up Robinson.
Just watching it again, and man did he play well, also.
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by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 12:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
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