TBP, Wanny promotion and a mock
TBP stands for Team Building Preface or the P could stand for prelude or prologue if you prefer. Basically, I'm in the process of writing a bunch of fanposts about how I think teams win in this league and how I think they should be built as a result. The first couple posts will be about run defense and overall building theory as well as statistics and their significance, kind of a moneyball type thing. I'm planning posts on free agency, positional importance and the draft as well. It's basically how I plan on focusing all my offseason football thought and time. It's also an attempt to channel some frustration into something more positive than just going around this blog and disagreeing with people on specific subjects that never actually allow me to put my bigger picture ideas out there to back up those arguments. I just thought I'd throw all that out there because I think this Wannstedt rant that I wrote up but never published a couple of weeks ago is in the general direction of where my team building posts are going to go and that it'd be a good way to kick things off.
I think Bills fans have really overrated Dave Wannstedt as a football coach, even as a defensive coordinator or football mind in general. Der Jaeger made a great point about not worrying about his Pitt defenses because college coaches get so few hours to install scheme or coach in general. But I worry about the way that program underachieved in general. He took over a team that won a share of the Big East Championship the year before and consistently had top 25ish recruiting classes including a 2006 class that Scout.com ranked 11th overall.
I'm going to ask a question about Dave Wannstedt and I want anybody who reads this to actually take a moment and come up with an answer in their head. What was Wanny's record in bowl games at Pitt? He was the HC for six years. I've mentioned the program and talent he had there. Obviously, it's a bad record if I'm asking, right? Maybe it's 2-4 or something? It's one win and one loss. He failed to go to a bowl his first three years at Pitt, then had the great success of bringing home a Meineke Car Bowl Trophy.
I've got two issues with the Wannstedt hire and here's the first one, it's just another recycled name from the good ol boys network of coaches. I've mentioned I think he's a mediocre coach in general, but that goes beyond his HC resume. Every achievement of Wannstedt's career has come with Jimmy Johnson calling the shots. He got his first DC gig when Johnson promoted him at Oklahoma St. Johnson hired him as the DC at Miami. Johnson brought him into the NFL when he was hired at Dallas. Wannstedt won a National Championship at Miami and a Super Bowl in Dallas and had great defenses there, but he has never been able to replicate that success without Jimmy Johnson. His resume might as well read: Dave Wannstedt, on Jimmy Johnson's staff and a great football coach from the mid 80s to the early 90s and great friend of Jimmy Johnson and mediocre football coach from the mid 90s to current. References: Jimmy Johnson and since his name is impressive, I don't even need to list anybody else. That's how the good ol boys network works in coaching.
2nd issue is, IMO, this hire is reactionary and an example of the directionless, focus lacking defense that we've got and that Nix has been acquiring player after player for. My issue is not about 4-3 vs. 3-4 in a where do you line players up, where do the guys on the roster fit best type of problem. I understand that a defense is about the players much more than the scheme. But I've got no confidence in this organization's ability to acquire players that can come together as a group and be an organized defense that actually accomplishes things as a group. This is my opinion due to the defense Buffalo has put on the field these last two years, a move towards the 4-3 this year and hybrid defenses in general. Allow me to explain:
One of the main advantages that a 3-4 scheme allows is the ability to put an undersized pass rusher on the weakside and let him take on an OT in space, or with good scheming and a nice blitz than that OLB can be left to beat a TE on the strongside or a RB in the backfield. But Buffalo doesn't seem at all interested in going after that type of player. Nix seems to be infatuated with size. A 6'3'', 245 pound pass rusher wouldn't fit in the 4-3 as you can't scheme around an inability to set the edge at DE and if left as a LB, that pass rusher would be just a situational guy. The Bills have practically gone out of their way to try and keep a player like Moats from getting snaps at OLB, will a move towards the 4-3 push Nix into not going after players who are actually a little bigger and stronger than Moats, but still not 4-3 fits?
Justin Tuck is a versatile lineman in the 4-3 and a poor fit in the 3-4. Same for a Chris Long or Charles Johnson. Those guys are ideal 4-3 ends who could play on either side of the line or bounce inside to DT for some nickel looks. Would the Bills draft a player like that? I don't think they would consider somebody who is a poor 3-4 fit.
If the Bills were to switch over to a 4-3, one advantage that they can put into their scheme is a 225 pound coverage linebacker that moves around the field like an extra safety. It's a player that wouldn't fit in a 3-4 and I know that Buffalo has utilized Bryan Scott like that, but would this team actually spend a 2nd round pick on Zach Brown or a 3rd rounder on Lavonte David or Travis Lewis or even a 4th/5th on Sean Spence? Stopping the TE is more important every year, but what is Buffalo's plan to match up better with those players?
Will the Bills leave value on the draft table and potential advantages off the chalkboard because of their lack of schematic direction? That's my concern. A hybrid scheme offers some versatility, but not more than a 4-3 or 3-4 does, just a different kind. A common pro 3-4 argument is that it's more difficult for offenses to play against, but I don't think that's true at all. A neat tidbit from the announcers of the Saints v. Lions playoff game was that Gregg Williams and the Saints' 4-3 defense had the most plays where they only rushed three players in the entire league. Running a hybrid doesn't open anything up for Buffalo's defense, it just closes options down.
I don't want this to sound like a response to DJ's stories about scheme not mattering because it's pure coincidence that I'm posting this now. But I know how this next line is going to read and I'm throwing it out there anyways, I don't care where Buffalo lines up their players, I care why they are lined up where they are. I care about why player X is on the field instead of player Y or why player X was drafted instead of player Y. It's about what Buffalo is trying to accomplish and I'm not sure Buffalo actually knows what they are trying to do.
That's my issue with the Wannstedt hire. I don't think Buffalo has any direction on defense. I think they're just reshuffling pieces and hoping for average. I don't think they're building with any specific direction in mind and yet, I think that gives them fewer options on draft day. Does this team have an actual concise plan or are they just going to fill positional holes with big southern college players and hope some oversized, underathletic, run defense centered front seven can come together under Wannstedt?
MOCK DRAFT
The way I do my mocks is to find somebody else's mock that is at least 5 rounds long and then I pick for the Bills, choosing from players available when the Bills pick. It simulates a real draft because you're not in control of who is available and you've got no idea whether or not available players will be picked before your next selection.
1 - Michael Floyd, WR Notre Dame - Maybe it's just because I enjoy a drink or 12 myself, but the alcohol stuff doesn't bother me with Floyd. IMO, his pair of citations for underaged drinking never happen if he's from the southeast and goes to an SEC school. The DUI is another story, but he's been an entirely different player since that happened. He lost a bunch of weight and looked far more polished on the field this season than he did earlier in his career. I think he's a legit top 10 prospect and much closer to Justin Blackmon (maybe even ahead of, if that doesn't sound too crazy) than people give him credit for. I think he's maybe the BPA at 10.
2 - Vinny Curry, DE/OLB Marshall - I think the Curry fans overrate his athleticism a bit, but he's a great combo of value, need and fit in the second round. Curry is the total package with a solid burst, ideal frame, good strength and the kind of motor and aggressive style that teams look for.
3 - CobyFleener, TE, Stanford - Kind of a Scott Chandler type right now. But he's got some athletic upside to his game. More sudden and explosive than Chandler is and that athletic ability could lead to him being a better route runner and even run blocker than Chandler. Should fill out nicely and be able to contribute as an in-line TE down the road.
4 - Cam Johnson - DE/OLB Virginia - I like his ability to be above average in both a 3-4 and a 4-3. Can play both strong and weakside in either scheme. Could be a Kelsay-esque pro and has untapped pass rushing potential on top of that.
4 - Shea McClellin, DE/OLB Boise St. - Versatile, fairly athletic, high motor, pretty productive player. I don't get why everybody doesn't have McClellin listed in the 3rd round range. I think he'll end up getting drafted pretty early and make a bit of an impact as a rotational player as a rookie. I wasn't necessarily planning on taking this many pass rushers, but if it works out this way for the Bills, I certainly won't complain.
5 -Brock Osweiler, QB, Arizona St. - I wasn't planning on drafting a QB because I don't think this is a good class if you're not a Tannehill believer in the first. I just don't like Foles or Russell Wilson or any of the big stat guys from smaller conferences. But I couldn't pass up on Osweiler any longer when he was still here in the 5th. If nothing else, he's got the tools to be great and that's worth a look and a couple years of development at this point in the draft.
6 -Levy Adcock, OT/OG, Oklahoma St. - Maybe an oversight by the mocker, but whatever, I'm all over Adcock this late. I've read concerns about his footwork and some inconsistent bending, but even if that pushes him inside, his power as a run blocker would still make him a potentially very good player at guard.
6 -Micah Pellerin, CB, Hampton - Impressive size/athleticism combo worth developing. Listed at 6'1'', 195, has the skill set to be a good man cover guy who can play inside or outside.
7 -Desmond Marrow, CB, Toledo - SS size at 6'3'', 210, but is plenty athletic enough to stay at CB. Ideally, he develops into a nickel option that can use his size to disrupt the Wes Welkers of the league and the size/speed combo to be a matchup option against TEs. Potentially a schematic advantage against a team that relies on a TE for mismatches.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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I take you comments about me completely personal
I can’t even look at you right now…..
: )
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
dude, this is mad excellent, and echoes many of my concerns:
…first one, it’s just another recycled name from the good ol boys network of coaches… I’ve mentioned I think he’s a mediocre coach in general, but that goes beyond his HC resume. Every achievement of Wannstedt’s career has come with Jimmy Johnson calling the shots…but he has never been able to replicate that success without Jimmy Johnson. His resume might as well read: Dave Wannstedt, on Jimmy Johnson’s staff and a great football coach from the mid 80s to the early 90s and great friend of Jimmy Johnson and mediocre football coach from the mid 90s to current. References: Jimmy Johnson and since his name is impressive, I don’t even need to list anybody else. That’s how the good ol boys network works in coaching.
This condensed version (for space, and to highlight all that i loved the most) is good enough for a rec.
2nd issue is, IMO, this hire is reactionary and an example of the directionless, focus lacking defense that we’ve got and that Nix has been acquiring player after player for. My issue is not about 4-3 vs. 3-4 in a where do you line players up, where do the guys on the roster fit best type of problem. I understand that a defense is about the players much more than the scheme. But I’ve got no confidence in this organization’s ability to acquire players that can come together as a group and be an organized defense that actually accomplishes things as a group. This is my opinion due to the defense Buffalo has put on the field these last two years, a move towards the 4-3 this year and hybrid defenses in general.
This literally sums up my thoughts in general as well.
Replace Fleener with Joe Adams, and frigging sign me up. I like all the remainder, for approaching both needs and wants, at relative values, and for picking the two guys in the first and second that I too am most enthralled with as Bills’ prospects, so far.
This is an equally good read, because it shows the “other side” or a differing view, that is still well articulated, and valid, while explaining your position.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
agreed – our FO is completely lost it seems. I’ve always kind of thought Wannstedt was like Shanahan. Overrated without specific pieces around him.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
So to sum up.
- Wannstedt is at best an average DC
- Bills D lacks a defined focus
- You want three DE/OLBs in the draft.
Did I miss anything?
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 29, 2012 11:00 PM EST reply actions
Riddle me this
IS he not better than the DC we had?
Why do we not draft a DE/OLB with the 10th overall pick?
True our D needs some sort of focus.
I hope he makes our D better overall.
Fat, Drunk, & Stupid is No way to go through life.
I don't understand why the Wannstedt hire grates on you so much
it’s just another recycled name from the good ol boys network of coaches.
This seem like your basic catch 22. When the Bills go out and hire someone unproven like Edwards, we complain about the guy not being experienced. When we hire someone with experience, we complain about him being from the “club”. Just like with FAs, the Bills are limited on the coaches that will take a chance ruining their career here…just ask Mike Mularkey and Greg Williams.
Every achievement of Wannstedt’s career has come with Jimmy Johnson calling the shots.
Since Jimmy hired him more than once doesn’t that mean that JJ (a proven winner as a HC) thought Dave was a pretty good DC? I agree DW is not a HC, but the Bills are not asking him to be a HC. Or, don’t you give Dave any credit for the success he had under Johnson?
2nd issue is, IMO, this hire is reactionary
Again, a catch 22. What did you want them to do….not fire Edwards? Not hire Wannstedt because they happened to have the good fortune of already having him on staff? And I hate to break it to you, but the good ole boys club extends way beyond football….it is literally everywhere in every occupation.
directionless, focus lacking defense…..That’s my issue with the Wannstedt hire. I don’t think Buffalo has any direction on defense…..
Is a change in direction the same as a lack of direction? Nix wanted to run a 3-4. Chan is an offensive guy, so he doesn’t care which they run. Dave comes in, takes a look around, and says look….we should be running a 4-3. So what does that tell you? Nix realizes that Dave knows more about defense than him and Chan combined? Let’s assume that Dave knows what he is talking about and the Bills do have the perfect people to run a 4-3…….what do you want Nix to do…..force him to run a 3-4? Would that be smart or just stubborn? Now, if you want to say CHIX have made mistakes, then I am all on board. I don’t think this switch back to the 4-3 makes CHIX look good, so why are they doing it? They better be doing it because they think it is best for the success of the team. If they are wrong, they will be gone sooner rather than later.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 29, 2012 11:36 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
What did you want them to do….not fire Edwards? Not hire Wannstedt because they happened to have the good fortune of already having him on staff?
FWIW – Keith Butler was signed by, or is going to be signed by, the Colts. Considering Whaley’s history in Pittsburgh i’m curious as to why Buffalo didn’t try and sniff up that tree.
I think this is kind of the point that Kaiser is making in general. They go with Wannstedt because they’ve worked in the past but don’t look for any young up and coming guys to take over and go at this thing. Butler would have been a great hire – he’s only learned behind Lebeau for a decade and knows the Pittsburgh ways yet the Bills go with a known retread in Wannstedt and switch schemes in the process.
this reeks of same old same old with Bills. We’re -1 to the Colts right now between Butler and Wannstedt and I wonder, as Kaiser does, how that will effect our draft.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Butler has proven squat as a DC......Dave W has a proven successful track record as a DC
maybe Butler will be great, or maybe he will be the next hot DC to flame out. Dave W is the better hire.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Dave W is the better hire.
in your opinion. In my opinion he’s not. I coudl be wrong or you could be wrong but saying he’s a better hire is an opinion at this point, not a fact.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
What has each achieved in their professional career?
and what has Mike Shanahan done without John Elway? Same as Wannstedt has without Jimmy Johnson.
past success does not indicate future success – especially if past success is circumstantial and not consistent.
Personally I’d rather go with a young up and comer with energy that learned from a HOF coach for the past decade in what is perhaps the defensive capital and standard in the NFL for defenses.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so what do you want to use as the measuring stick?
Who is the better HC…Chuck Pagano or Bill Bellicheat? Yeah, same reason.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Joe i’m not saying you could be right because you could. But fact right now is your point is an opinion as is mine.
why can’t you accept that and we can agree to disagree?
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
Sure we can, but I hope you see my point
My opinion is based more in fact (past performance as a DC) than yours is. It doesn’t mean you can’t be right. But IMO using Bulter as an argument as to why Dave W was a bad hire doesn’t make a lot of sense.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
My opinion is based more in fact (past performance as a DC) than yours is
what opinion? That Wannstedt will automatically be a better hire because he’s been a DC in the past?
But IMO using Bulter as an argument as to why Dave W was a bad hire doesn’t make a lot of sense
how does it not? it’s an area in which we can upgrade our team. We know what Wannstedt can do without Jimmy Johnson and it’s been patchy.
with Butler you have a guy that’s learned under one of the top defensive coordinators ever to coach the game for the past decade on a team that is the NFL standard for defenses. Wouldn’t it be prudent to at least interview him based off of our attempt of a scheme and Whaley’s history in Pittsburgh?
That’s my point – it’s not so much that I think Wannstedt will fail but that we didn’t even attempt to look anywhere else for an upgrade.
By Buffalo just automatically giving Wannstedt the job they aren’t searching for alternatives in which a person could be a better candidate and without changing schemes, again.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Again, who is the better HC....
Bellicheat or Pagano? Who is the better QB Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck? It comes down to taking a small chance on a proven vet or taking a big chance on someone unproven. Both could work…both could bomb, but the odds are in favor of the guy with the proven track record of success.
Why look elsewhere when you don’t need to? Dave knows the team better than anyone else we could have gotten. He is very qualified. I would be like being married to Megan Fox but wanting to go speed dating at the local Holiday Inn.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
but the odds are in favor of the guy with the proven track record of success
which is the problem – his “success” hasn’t been on his own.
We had almost this exact same conversation about Shanahan remember? I said Shanahan hadn’t done squat without John Elway and you argued over and over with me yet 2 years after he took an 8-8 team over he went 6-10 and 5-11 while looking like one of the most dysfunctional teams in the NFL.
It’s about his entire history and how he’s done everywhere he’s gone. As Kaiser points out sans Jimmy Johnson he’s been Mike Shanahan which isn’t an endorsement.
You can be fine with it but if I were doing a coaching search I wouldn’t limit my options because I have a friend and I certainly would look at his entire body of work instead of cherry picking his successful stints as a coach
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
but his entire history isn't relevant
we didn’t hire him to be a HC. We hired him to be a DC.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 30, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
When the Bills go out and hire someone unproven like Edwards, we complain about the guy not being experienced
My problem is less with Wannstedt personally and more about the way that he got the job. I think he’s a just another name that isn’t really suited to do a better or worse job than somebody else, but Buffalo hired him because he’s got a track record and was already on the staff. I wonder if Buffalo even bothered to consider hiring somebody else or even bothered to consider other directions this defense could be taken in, which will kind of bring me to my overall point.
Is a change in direction the same as a lack of direction?
No, I don’t think it is. My perception is that the Bills defense had no direction before Wannstedt and will continue to be directionless with him. And this is the important part, I’m not sure what Buffalo is trying to do on defense. It’s not about 4-3 or 3-4, it’s about why you’re running one or the other. Are you running a 3-4 because it allows you to put size on the field, but still be aggressive in getting after the QB with your LBs. Are you running a 4-3 because it maybe matches up better with a spread approach with LBs that can maybe cover a TE and more defined DL roles.
This is the question that I don’t think Bills fans can answer: What are the defensive player acquisitions for the Buffalo Bills over Nix’s two seasons designed to do? What is this defense being put together to do? That’s why I think there’s no plan. The plan is just to view each position as an individual spot that they need to fill with the best players they can and that is the beginning and end of their plan on defense. At least as I see it, that’s what they’re doing and I think it’s a pathetic approach to drafting and signing players.
So, it’s not directly about Wannstedt. I just see the Bills hire him and it makes me even more certain that the Bills drafted Troup because they wanted to get better at NT, not because they wanted to get better at stopping QBs or stopping the run and they drafted Kelvin Sheppard because they wanted to get better at ILB and not for any other reason, etc…. There is no vision, no design, just reactionary moves by an organization that is content to play from behind.
don’t you give Dave any credit for the success he had under Johnson?
Sure, but it’s been 20 years and that Miami defense he took over was great before him and great after him and the Dallas defense was just as good the year after he and Johnson left for the Dolphins too. He does deserve credit, but he also deserves to be viewed as a coach who oversaw the Miami defense decline while he was the HC, the Bears defense completely fall apart while he was the HC and a Pitt program that he led nowhere. Has Dave Wannstedt ever elevated a defense to be better than the perceived talent of the unit in his career? I don’t think he really has. It’s not that he’s a bad coordinator or a bad hire in general, I just don’t think the Bills gave him the job for the right reasons.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
fair enough....but in the grand scheme of things I don't think the reasons matter
He is an improvement over Edwards. Besides, with a the other issues the Bills have, Dave W. as DC is such a minor issue. If this team falls flat on it’s face again next year it won’t be because Dave W. is the DC.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
by Joe P. on Jan 30, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If this team falls flat on it’s face again next year it won’t be because Dave W. is the DC.
Exactly. But I think that Buffalo’s plan for improvement is based around Wannstedt … because this team has no plan.
George Edwards wasn’t the problem. This team has no plan to stop QBs. They’ve got no organizational plan to defend the shotgun. Their plan is as simple as filling positional holes and trying to get bigger and tougher on D. They’re not changing with the TE is more of a receiving threat every year landscape. Wannstedt won’t be the problem, but he’s not going to be the solution either. The solution lies in a bigger organizational strategy that I don’t think Buffalo has any clue that they actually do need.
I think the Wannstedt hire, the switch to the 4-3, the first two drafts, the way that Buffalo employs certain defenders, etc.. are all symptoms of the problem. Not that Wannstedt is a bad coach (although I certainly don’t think he’s a good one), it’s that a different person calling the plays isn’t going to change the decision making at a higher level.
And on Wannstedt and his track record: Do you think that any of the coordinators in the Super Bowl are all that good or are they just decent or solid coaches in a good situation? That’s what I think Wannstedt was at the U and in Dallas. Just another interchangeable guy in a situation where Jimmy Johnson could be great and with players that do the heavy lifting for you.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
Good question.....We may never know
Do you think that any of the coordinators in the Super Bowl are all that good or are they just decent or solid coaches in a good situation?
Did Bellicheat and Tom C. make the Big Tuna look good, or was it vice versa? Bellicheat was fired from Cleveland and the Giants were very close to firing Tom C on several occasions. Did Jon Gruden ride Tony Dungy’s defense all the way to the SB? Was Gruden and Andy Reed a big part of the reason Mike Holmgren was succesful with the Packers? The media had Bill Cowher on the hot seat for several years before he final won a SB as well.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Kaiser you said you dont think Wannstedt is a good coach. i dont understand why people say this. if he was a bad coach there would be no way he would be a DC and absolutly no way he would ever be considered to be a HC which he has been one in the nfl and college. i think he is a good coach.
Ay Ay Ay Ayyyyy
by BuffaloBillsBigestFan on Feb 1, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think Wanny will be better than Edwards
And I like the 4-3 better than the 3-4 in general (and yes, I know we’ll be running a hybrid). However, I share many of your concerns. My main one is this: Wanny has been on staff and (presumably) had some influence over the defense, personnel, and scheme for the last year. I can’t imagine he had nothing to say, and so I think, at the least, some blame can be placed on him.
That being said, I’m looking forward to at very least an upgraded defense this year.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
RE: the Mock Draft
Overall I like it, but it is hard to judge when we don’t know which mock you based your mock from. A link would be nice. Also, are you assuming the Bills resign Stevie and/or Bell? I really like the Curry, Cam Johnson, and Brock O picks.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Probably this one
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/1/29/2682526/2012-nfl-draft-updated-1st-7th-rounds-trades
It’s the only 7 round mock draft I’ve seen this early in the offseason.
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
I guess I mocked independently of FA. I’d still be happy to take Floyd if Buffalo resigned Stevie, although I maybe would have been more aggressive in getting OL help if Buffalo loses Bell and does nothing else in FA.
Obviously it’s just for fun. I can’t see a longer mock, even 3 or 4 rounds and not take my time going through them and figuring what I’d do for each pick without looking ahead. Since this one went really, really well for me (at least the late rounds fell my way, IMO) I threw it on to the end of the post.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
Good read
I’m not as down on Wannstedt’s resume as you (I think college success is all recruiting which has no bearing on pro football), but overall, I’m on the same wavelength. I see NO plan. I think Buffalo is winging this thing with no idea what they’re doing other than a vague yearning to get bigger. I see this thing imploding in 2012- something to the effect of 4-12. Sad times for Bills fans- this team is a disgrace across the board. Putrid.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
The Bills where transitioning from running a T2
probably the worst possible defense the Bills could have tried to run given the conditions they play in. The T2 is run with small, quick personnel. It is almost impossible for the Bills not to get bigger. Isn’t that a good thing? I think the defense will improve, but the offense could be in for a tough season depending upon what happens during FA and the draft.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
I see this thing imploding in 2012- something to the effect of 4-12.
if so it’d be real bad – we have a more or less cupcake schedule next year. I think we win 7+ games on a house built of sand and then go 4-12 the next year prompting yet another rebuild.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 30, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I’m probably harsher on Wanny than I should be.
I don’t think the Bills will implode, but rather go on kind of like Jauron and just kind of tread water. Replace a decent player with another decent player. Older average guys move on while younger average guys take their place. I just don’t see them ever getting over the hump without really hitting on some draft picks and things coming together almost out of luck more than plan.
"You mean @TWHITNER. It’s how he prefers to be referenced." - Jon Harrington
Meh
You bury people before they even have a chance to do anything. Hindsight is so easy. Oh, Bill Bilichick was a recycled coach. So was Tom Coughlin. Marv Levy was too. What is your point? Sometimes, things don’t work out with an organization for one reason or another. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good coach. He wasn’t a good coach THERE.
What will be will be. If they have as good a draft as they did last year, get some luck in health and keep their stars healthy, they could and should be a playoff team. I have no clue if they will, but, all the gloom-and-doom in the offseason is just unwarranted. This team has talent. Not as much as other teams, and that is why they aren’t a contender, yet.
by suteck on Jan 29, 2012 11:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Wannesdt
Is a SuperBowl winning DC. Multiple super bowls I might add. Some coaches are better coordinators than head coaches. In fact, many of them are (Norv Turner, ironically Jimmy Johnsons OC during their glory days, Wade Philips, Mike Murlarky, the list goes on and on. With many of them not winning super bowls either).
In the end, give me a proven winner as a coordinator and I’m happy. With Dave, we have that.
As for your mock, it’s good. I too like WR in the first, mainly because I am unsure the talent at other positions warrant the pick. Where as Floyd and some others in the group do. Curry in the second would be outstanding.
Draft good. Wannstedt? I really hope you are wrong.
It seems you’ve made up your mind about Wannstedt and are laying out your reasoning. However, it’s kind of pointless at this time. Blindly accepting your reasoning amounts to pure pessimism: i.e. “kaisertown is right. There is no hope.”. I’d have to say that I really hope you are wrong.
As to his background, he was a successful DC but not so much as a head coach. It seems you would accept him as a good DC if he was successful in two different situations, this being the third. There are not many people who could qualify if those are the requirements. Certainly no positional coach would have enough experience.
rec’d. very good post. i shared many of your same thoughts in the thread on BR that broke the stache news.
3-4 v. 4-3 and how the players fit isnt my problem with the switch. my problem that it shows how nix and gailey were shooting from the hip on (at least a couple of) big time franchise decisions. it shows a lack of foresight, and certainly a lack of imagination and ingenuity. maybe it works out, maybe it doesnt. but since january of 2010 theyve made decisions about there defense they way i would expect most fans to, and that worries the hell out of me.
as for the mock, id have a hard time not being thrilled about those first 7 picks. as you pointed out, i think everyone past fleener slipped too far for it to be realistic. but whatever, those are some good players you chose.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
How can you say lack of foresight?
This is a problem that I have. How could they possibly know that Edwards’ system would flame out and end up being terrible? You can’t possibly plan for failure. No coach plans for failure. The HC has to ASSUME that his DC and OC will be able to do their jobs successfully, or he won’t be able to focus on his HC duties. I just don’t see how you can fault anyone because a coach’s system was bad. Some are saying they want a new and up and comer, that is what happens when you give an unproven product a shot. Some succeed, most fail. They saw the failure and moved on with a coach that has had success.
The HC has to ASSUME that his DC and OC will be able to do their jobs successfully
i dont get it. gailey is totally exempt of all blame even tho the man he hired was a bad defensive coordinator?
yes, i think hiring the stache shows that they had a lack of foresight when they 1) hired edwards in the first place, 2) hired the stache in the first place. foresight would have been firing edwards and immediately promoted wanny to DC. foresight would have been hiring someone as DC back in 2010 who didnt stink on game day.
the hiring of Wannstedt in the first place was knee jerk, as was his promotion to defensive coordinator. it shows that nix and gailey’s plan for the defense was never on solid footing. in my opinion, the house of cards defensive strategy combined with the reactionary hiring/firing shows an obvious lack of foresight.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
So what do you want????
Should Nix and Gailey be fired right now? Should Edwards have been retained? What should they have done? Do you really think hiring a young unproven DC is going to magically fix what was wrong with the defense? What if that young DC wanted to run a 4-3 because he thought we had the players to run it? Would that make him an idiot or a genius? I agree that CHIX have made mistakes, and they will pay for them if they can’t correct them. But, I don’t see how hiring Dave W. was one of them.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
i never even said hiring wanny was a mistake, and i certainly dont believe they should be fired. if were to go point / counter-point, i would kindly ask that people dont put words in my mouth.
what id want is more general than specific: i’d want to feel like i know where this is going. 2 years in and the defense is still the same confusing mess that it was when they took over.
2010 draft it was “were switching to the 3-4, so lets draft physically ideal 3-4 fits as developmental guys”. bills then drafted 4 players who are yet to prove they even belong in the NFL- at any position.
2011 draft it was “we stunk against the run, so lets draft players who are primarily run stuffers”. bills then use their first 4 picks on guys who excel in run support, and subsequently dont get any better on defense at all.
whats the 2012 draft? “we need a better pass rush…. and better pass coverage… and better athletes at each level of the defense… and we also just switched coaches, so everyone needs to learn this new playbook and new terminology”
see my point? there decision making looks to be less geared towards a general goal they had at the outset and more like these moves came by spinning a big wheel chan keeps in his office closet. year by year the defensive decisions seem to be made with tunnel vision, thinking only in terms of the “now” and never in terms of the “franchise”. as though they didnt ever take a birds eye view and figure out the general picture. the wannstedt hire is an indication of that, in my mind
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Jan 30, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually your wrong if I remember correctly we improved in run defense by 40 yrds s.game with our best defensive player missing and a complt and utter wreck of a dc.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Jan 30, 2012 6:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
there were a lot of questionable
Coaching moves this year. I think we are better off than Miami and the bucks. And indi.
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
by billsoferie on Jan 30, 2012 12:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I’d rather we get a TE via FA if it’s possible, and maybe draft a CB or OT in the 3rd, but other than that, I was totally down with your picks. Good writeup.
by BuffaloRepresent on Jan 30, 2012 12:25 PM EST reply actions
Nice article and nice mock draft
Watching Cam Johnson I don’t think he will be there in the 4th round!
Rec.
Thanks for posting. Too often I parse through others posts just to see your comments (same with Kurupt).

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