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Why The Buffalo Bills' Defensive Alignment Doesn't Matter, Part 2

In Part I, we talked about how the Buffalo Bills' version of the 4-3 and 3-4 are essentially the same defense. Buffalo employs a version of the 46 defense that closely matches the 3-4/elephant defense they also use. In Part II, we'll look at the position responsibilities, how the team's current personnel fit, and which free agents and draft prospects are good fits for the Bills' system.

Terminology

Here we see a standard 3-4 alignment. Buffalo plays two defensive ends and a nose tackle on the defensive line. The two outside linebackers are called "Jack" and "Sam," with the Sam aligned on the strongside of the defense. The inside linebackers are called "Mike" and "Will," with the Mike aligned on the strong side of the defense. After the jump, we'll break down each position individually.

Star-divide

Nose Tackle

Buffalo asks it nose tackle position to play inside the guards in a variety of positions, as shown above. The nose tackle can play head up on the center, shaded to one side of the center, or in the gap between the center and the guard (A gap). Buffalo's nose tackle has to be able to play head up on the center and control both A gaps, penetrate the interior of the offense, beat single blocks and absorb double-team blocks.

Currently, Buffalo's nose tackle is Kyle Williams. He's capable of operating as the nose tackle so long as Buffalo doesn't call for him to play head up on the center (zero technique) too much. When Williams is shaded to a side, or in the A gap, he's at his best. Williams is one of the league's best penetrating defensive linemen. Torell Troup is the reserve, and he's what Williams isn't. Troup's best position is over the center in zero technique, where the game turns into a wrestling match. That plays to Troup's best asset: his strength. Buffalo also has Kellen Heard, who can play nose tackle in a pinch, and Marcell Dareus is also a very capable nose tackle, a position he played for the second half of the 2011 season.

While Buffalo has a great deal of tackle depth, if Buffalo chose to pursue more depth in free agency, Jimmy Kennedy would be a good fit. In the draft, a nose tackle like Alabama's Josh Chapman would be a solid scheme fit.

Defensive End

Buffalo asks its defensive ends to play from the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle to just inside the offensive guard. The ends have to be able to play head up on the guard or tackle and control two gaps, penetrate one gap, set the edge if needed, beat one-on-one blocks, and absorb double-teams.

Dareus' versatility is a huge advantage that Buffalo will enjoy in the future. Dareus is similar to Baltimore's Haloti Ngata in terms of scheme versatility, high level of play, and power. He can play the end position, and he can also play further inside than what the end position is asked to do. This ability allows Buffalo to flip Dareus and Williams in situations where the end is playing over or inside of the guard. This puts Dareus into the nose tackle position and allows Williams to penetrate.

Alex Carrington and Dwan Edwards are good fits for these positions. Carrington is more of a movement player, with the ability to penetrate gaps and rush the passer. His long arms are also an advantage in closing passing lanes. Edwards plays with more power and absorbs double teams better. Heard can play end and also absorb double teams and mans two gaps. Spencer Johnson is best used at the end position in one-gap schemes.

Buffalo needs four ends, and has three of them on the roster in Dareus, Carrington, and Edwards. Jarron Gilbert might be that fourth end, as well as Johnson. If Buffalo is looking for free agent depth, Cory Redding or Igor Olshansky could be signed. If Buffalo looks for depth in the draft, Derek Wolfe of Cincinnati and James Brooks of North Alabama are good mid- to late-round picks.

Jack Outside Linebacker

In Buffalo's scheme, the weak-side outside linebacker is called the "Jack" linebacker. For the sake of creating a mental model to work off of, when thinking about the Jack, think about a defensive end that sometimes drops into coverage. The best player at this position in the NFL is Dallas' DeMarcus Ware. Ware is almost always going forward, rushing the passer, but occasionally drops into coverage. This position is also where Shawne Merriman made a name for himself in San Diego.

The Jack linebacker has just a few alignment options. The Jack is positioned on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle or the last man on the line of scrimmage on the weak side. The Jack is asked to keep contain, pursue the run on plays to the strong side, set the edge and force the play inside to runs to the weak side, and rush the passer. The Jack can play in a two- or three-point stance, and can position a half yard off the line of scrimmage if needed.

Merriman currently fits this position best. Let's qualify: a healthy Merriman fits this position. Chris Kelsay can also fit this position if he wasn't being used on the strong side. Johnson was used as the Jack out of necessity, since no other player on the roster, including Johnson, fit this position. Arthur Moats can certainly rush the quarterback, but has a hard time setting the edge. Danny Batten can't set the edge against an offensive tackle or rush the quarterback at the level required.

This position is Buffalo's greatest defensive need. In free agency, the prime target to man this position should be Mario Williams. The Jack position is what he learned to play in Houston last year, and got five sacks in five games. Williams should be atop Buffalo's wish list, since he's the best player at Buffalo's greatest need. If Buffalo can't acquire Williams, Cliff Avril would be a good alternative. Avril would have to learn how to play primarily on the right side, as he plays left end for Detroit.

In the draft, a group of highly regarded players fit the Jack position. All of the following players are college ends that excel moving forward, have enough size to match up well with offensive tackles, and can drop into short zones in coverage at times: North Carolina's Quinton Coples, South Carolina's Melvin Ingram, Clemson's Andre Branch, Illinois' Whitney Mercilus, Syracuse's Chandler Jones, Marshall's Vinny Curry, and USC's Nick Perry. I also believe that Alabama's Courtney Upshaw would fit Buffalo's scheme best at the Jack position, as his power is best used going forward.

Sam Outside Linebacker

The strong-side outside linebacker is called the "Sam" linebacker. The Sam is essentially a big, traditional 3-4 outside linebacker that needs to do everything: rush the passer, keep contain, pursue weakside runs, set the edge on strongside runs, cover in both zone and man, and jam the tight end. LaMarr Woodley is currently among the best Sam linebackers in the league.

Note: If Dave Wannstedt integrates his traditional 4-3 scheme, the Sam will also need to play off the line of scrimmage in a similar role as the "Will" linebacker, whose responsibilities will be explained later.

Buffalo uses Kelsay at Sam, and he's not a bad fit. Kelsay can do everything the Sam needs to do except man coverage. He just isn't elite at any of the requirements. Kelsay is the type of player you'd like to see used as a reserve, getting 20-25 snaps a game to keep the starter fresh. If Buffalo can't find his replacement this off-season, Kelsay is an adequate starter at Sam for at least one more season. Batten is also a fit at Sam, though he's not as big and powerful as Kelsay. Moats could fit the Sam position once he learns more than rushing the passer.

Buffalo can certainly look to upgrade at Sam, though it's not the priority that the Jack position is. In free agency, Baltimore's Jarret Johnson is an ideal Sam in a hybrid defense. Johnson is essentially a more talented version of Kelsay. Dallas' Anthony Spencer is probably the most talented player available capable of manning the Sam linebacker position. San Francisco's Ahmad Brooks and Cincinnati's Manny Lawson would also be upgrades over Kelsay. Chris Gocong, Matt Roth and Rob Ninkovich are also available, though they aren't really upgrades over Kelsay.

In the draft, Dont'a Hightower is the best fit for this position. When Alabama used him as a pass rusher, he played on the strong side, and looked very good. Hightower is strong and capable of fulfilling all of the Sam requirements, including playing off the line of scrimmage in Wannstedt's 4-3. Upshaw could play Sam, though it might be a waste of his abilities moving forward and attacking. Smaller college ends with movement skills are also good fits at Sam: West Virginia's Bruce Irvin, Oklahoma's Ronnell Lewis, and Virginia's Cam Johnson would all fit at Sam in Buffalo's scheme.

Mike Linebacker

In Buffalo's hybrid scheme, the "Mike" linebacker transitions from the center of the offense to its strong side. The Mike is asked to take on guards when defensive linemen aren't in front of him, as well as flow to the football when he is covered by defensive linemen. The Mike linebacker needs to be strong enough to take on guards, as well as fast and mobile enough to chase down ball carriers. The Mike, along with the defensive end position not manned by Dareus, comes off the field in passing situations, and isn't asked to man cover often.

Kelvin Sheppard is a good fit here. Sheppard is great flowing to the football and making plays when covered. He's decent when asked to take on blockers for others to make plays. With Williams at nose tackle and Dareus at left end, Sheppard is mostly covered and free to move. If Andra Davis returns, he's an ideal Mike linebacker in terms of tacking on blockers. Chris White can play Mike in a pinch, though he's not strong enough to take on blockers consistently. Scott McKillop can also play Mike linebacker, and is the likely backup to Sheppard if Davis doesn't return and no other Mike linebacker is acquired.

Sheppard is a good starter who is only entering his second season, so Buffalo should be looking for depth. Mike linebacker depth is best acquired through the draft, where the reserve can play special teams as well. If Buffalo chooses the free agent route, bringing back Mario Haggan would work. In the draft, USC's Chris Galippo is a bigger Mike linebacker that could be taken later in the draft.

Will Linebacker

The "Will" linebacker in Buffalo's scheme is a cross between a Tampa 2 style outside linebacker and a 3-4 weak-side linebacker. The Will linebacker has to be able to take on blockers at times, but finds himself mostly playing in space with the ability to run and hit. The Will also must be able to cover running backs and drop into zone coverage. In certain schemes, the Will lines up outside the Jack and rushes the passer to blitz, or at least show blitz. Note that if Buffalo makes a wholesale change to Wannstedt's 4-3 scheme, the Sam linebacker will have many of the same responsibilities as the Will linebacker.

Nick Barnett is an ideal fit for the Will position. He's capable of taking on blockers, as well as flowing to the football. White is a better fit at Will than Mike, though he's not athletic enough to cover all backs or be a sideline to sideline defender. Moats also has the ability to play Will linebacker, since he can take on blocks well and is athletic enough to defend sideline-to-sideline. Moats' difficulty comes in pass coverages.

Like the Mike linebacker position, Buffalo should be looking for depth at the Will position. Kirk Morrison would fill the need well. Denver's Joe Mays is also a good fit. In the draft, Vanderbilt's Chris Marve would be a decent fit as a reserve. Florida State's Nigel Bradham would also fit as a reserve.

Implications

In my opinion, Buffalo's front seven needs should be prioritized as follows: Jack linebacker (defensive end), Sam linebacker, reserve defensive end, reserve Mike linebacker, and a reserve Will linebacker. If Buffalo transitions to Wannstedt's scheme, two Jack-style edge rushers are needed, and the needs at Sam linebacker, in the form of a Will linebacker, become almost as important as the Jack.

At times during the season, many fans - to include this author - thought the Bills were a couple outside linebackers away from being a good defense. Buffalo was aligning their Mike and Will linebackers wide, or aligning their defensive ends wide, to compensate for weak edge play. The addition of two good edge rushers could be the difference between a bad and a good defense. Edge rushers would allow Buffalo to focus on the center of the field, knowing their Jack and Sam linebackers would funnel outside plays back inside. The improvement should start and focus on the Jack linebacker. The Jack linebacker is the biggest need on the defense.

Comment 90 comments  |  21 recs  | 

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Great post Rec'd

But, you didn’t talk at all about the 4-3. So, i am a bit confused.

by suteck on Jan 29, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

Next story

I did this one before Wannstadt said Buffalo would play a 4-3.

And it isn’t official yet.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't Discout Buddy

Despite what the coach may say/want, Buddy is the one steering the choices and he says he’s drafting guys with a 3-4 in mind that can work in both. So Wannstedt may yearn for his system guys, but he’s going to get guys (IMO) that fit Buddy’s mold.

by Fanntastic on Jan 29, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope...

Nix said that almost 3 years ago. Sometimes things change and… things have changed.

by Nepenthe88 on Jan 29, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. And things have changed a lot.

Fact is that even though the bulk of our D’s front 7 is better suited for the 3-4, the majority of those players are marginal NFL players. Meanwhile the difference makers on our D’s front 7 (you know? those guys that we can actually build a D around) are much better suited for an aggressive 4-3.

Williams in 4-3> Williams 3-4
Dareus 4-3> Dareus 3-4
Kelsay (not a difference maker but helps prove my point) 4-3> Kelsay 3-4
Barnett 4-3> Batnett 3-4

Just about the only one that’s a wash is Sheppard. But if he’s not asked to cover sideline to sideline then he’s very well suited for a 4-3 MLB as well.

Yes we have more players suited for the 3-4, but in quality we’re better in a 4-3. Personally I much [refer the quality over quantity attitude that Wannstedt seems to have for this D.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

rec'd

Very well stated. This team is going to be good next year on defense if they draft as well as they did last year.

by suteck on Jan 29, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

Unfortunately I don’t think that there is a true RDE available in this draft, most of the rushing prospects are best suited for the left side. So the RDE position might be better filled threw free agency/trade. I’m thinking Cliff Avril and Robert Mathis are good targets, as well as Osi Umenyiora if the Giants finally grant his trade request.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

Things like Gronk and Hernandez. Gotta play to win in the division if a 4-3 helps us cover TE’s the next ten years we need to make the change.

Harooo

by Robot Nixon on Jan 29, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

If the TE is the 3-4 kryptonite, then you must move to a scheme that is not a weak towards them. You build a team to win your division by continuously beating the other teams in your division.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

He literally just said that a few weeks ago at his EOS press conference. He’s not going to change his vision of what the team should look like because his DC as a philosophy that differs. And given Coach Wannstedt’s history re: Personnel, I think he’s going to be less dogmatic than some have been on here re: 4-3 players.

by Fanntastic on Jan 29, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Buddy also said during his presser something along the lines I do not care if we play a base 4-3 we are in the 4-3 50% of the time anyway. Plus nix seemed to draft scheme versatile players.

"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus

by matthew62 on Jan 29, 2012 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

good post

When does fa start?

"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-

by billsoferie on Jan 29, 2012 11:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Tuesday, March 13, 2012, at 4:00 pm ET/3:00 pm CT/2:00pm MT/1:00 pm PT.

.

When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 29, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

off topic...

but is that pic in the "Delocated"ad Sireric???

:-)

Optimistic??? Of course I am!! I'm a Bills fan, and as of right now, we are undefeated on the regular season!!!
Things are truly looking up!!!

by Cinga on Jan 29, 2012 11:17 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

LOL...rec'd

"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden

"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu

by Joe P. on Jan 29, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know how many people are aware, but Wannstedt had an Interview with NFL Network radio yesterday and he state outright that we'll be a 4-3 this year.

Which means we need a JACK DE as well as a JACK LB. Personally I think that Merriman could be a good JACK in an agressive, Giants/Raiders style 4-3 while taking on much the same responsibilities as Mathias Kiwanuka does for the Giants and Kamerion Wembley does for the Raiders. With that said, drafting his replacement early wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

And if what Wanny said holds true then the weak side DE role becomes an even larger priority (if that’s even possible). IMO Mario Williams is a dream, not saying that we shouldn’t try if he’s available, just saying that we shouldn’t put that much stock in him. Drafting a DE might be the best move here.

I only caught the second half of the Senior Bowl, but it was enough for me to form basic opinions of a few options. Coples looked decent, but I wasn’t at all impressed. Upshaw looked very good and I would be very happy if we drafted him, even if I’m still of the opinion that he’d be better off being Kelsay’s replacement. Curry is the one that impressed me the most. He was the most consistent rusher on there and was flat out dominant at times. I think his stock just rose to being a first rounder (thinking that he’ll be this years Von Miller).

All in all we should have a better D with Wanny, and I`m guessing that we’ll be moving away from the hybrid (while still keeping some elements of it) and moving more towards a 4-3 base.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

Is there a link or transcript of this interview?

I like to believe this has more to do with the Bills players feeling like they can be something special. They started a year 0-8 and finished 4-4 while taking playoff and championship game bound teams to OT and 3 pt nail biters. All this with one year under a new coach and with a young roster. Im sure they can feel what they are capable of. -poz

by RBbills on Jan 29, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

It was on NFL Radio.

And as much as I’d like to produce a transcript of it (because i have the feeling that no one will believe me without it) I can’t. But this is pretty much word for word.

Host: "Dave, quick question about the Buffalo Bills. Will you be running a 3-4 or a 4-3 this year in Buffalo?"
ZERO HESITATION!
Wannstedt: "4-3. We have the ideal personnel to run the 4-3."

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

nycitybillsfan

IF we have the personnal what the hell we was doing the last two years.

by nycitybillsfan on Jan 29, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that Wanny was more talking towards our top players being better suited to the 4-3 than the 3-4.

As for what we’ve been doing for 2 years? Easy, we’ve been sucking.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe you

Chris Brown has been hinting at it in his articles since Dave was appointed.

Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life.

- Brooke Shields

by Let's Go Buffalo (UK) on Jan 29, 2012 1:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

nycitybillsfan

Good article we bills fan look forward more to the off searon -Hope 2012 is different

Ps—-Hope Fitz keep is face clean and look more like nfl qb then are bush man. —IMAGE is every thing.

by nycitybillsfan on Jan 29, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Good to hear

That you’ve come off your ‘there is Zero percent chance that Houston let’s Williams walk!! Wake up people!!’.

There is a chance they do. Rather good one IMO. Problem is, as you state, the chances of Mario coming to B Lo are much, much less.

by DJ O on Jan 29, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Which means we need a JACK DE as well as a JACK LB. Personally I think that Merriman could be a good JACK in an agressive, Giants/Raiders style 4-3 while taking on much the same responsibilities as Mathias Kiwanuka does for the Giants and Kamerion Wembley does for the Raiders. With that said, drafting his replacement early wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

Kind of. If Wannstadt plays a straight 4-3, then the term “Jack” goes away, or means something else. The ends in Wannstadt’s scheme are supposed to be interchangeable. The Sam and Will are also interchangeable. So are the DT’s.

If Buffalo makes that type of transition, Nix needs to find one end and an outside linebacker.

If Wannstadt transitions to a 46 style 4-3, like the Giants, then Buffalo would still need an end, but the immediate needs at Sam wouldn’t be as great, since the team could get by with Moats and Batten for a year.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Looking forward to your next article explain all of this.

I mean I got the basic premiss, but an in depth explanation as to the possible 4-3/46 alignments like this article would also be a huge help. Definitely looking forward to reading it.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

we are all looking forward to reading it.

by suteck on Jan 29, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

My next article doesn't address the 46 or 4-3

It simply addresses who is a fit in Wannstadt’s 4-3. IF the change is true, I’ll then dedicate more energy to doing something like this article.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Either way, can't wait.

The depth of knowledge that you have in this is incredible. Almost like if your a coach!

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks!

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You needed to see the whole game

You really needed to see the whole game.

Coples was the best player on the field in the first half with a sack, near sack and two passes knocked down. He tired in the second half (not a good sign) and the match-ups for him changed (the North changed their blocking schemes and he was matched-up against Adams for the most part).

Upshaw had kind of the reverse type of game: he was decent in the first half, especially against the run, and much better, particularly rushing the passer, in the second half.

Both were pretty good overall, but I didn’t see either as being so dominant over the course of the whole game that they had “instant superstar” written all over them. Coples flashed the ability to dominate a game in the first half, but I didn’t like the fact that his game dropped off so much in the second half—still, some team is going to look at his talent and potential and see if they can get him to play at the superstar level that he is capable of playing at. To me, he looks like a “boom or bust” prospect (and I don’t like the odds for the Bills when they take that type player). Upshaw didn’t show me the same kind of dominating talent as Coples—at least in terms of the kind of pass rushing ability the Bills are looking for—but his effort level never flagged. He struck me as the kind of player who may not be able to just take over a game, but who will make a lot of good plays and fill the stat sheet when the game is over.

Curry was the most interesting player, in my view. He’s still a bit raw—he made a couple fairly big mistakes out there (failing to set the edge)—and he will need to get “coached up” to reach his potential. But to me, he showed as much “superstar” potential as Coples while being much more consistent in his effort level over the course of the game. With the right coaching, in my opinion, he could become an outstanding pass-rusher by his second or third season.

Beyond these three players, I wasn’t very impressed by the other OLBs and DEs who played in the Senior Bowl game. Ingram made one really nice play, but was otherwise invisible. The same for Cam Johnson. Lavonte David made a couple of nice plays and was, IMHO, the best of the rest, but he looks too small to play in the Bills’ scheme (unless they want to use him as a WILL LB in a 4-3 scheme—where he would be a good 2nd round pick). On the other hand, the inside LBs and the North’s DTs (positions where I don’t think the Bills will use a high draft pick) looked pretty good throughout the game.

Those who do not learn fromt eh past are doomed to repeat it.

by LifetimeBillsFan on Jan 30, 2012 2:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for writing.....

2 probowl defensive ends coming right up.

- Buddy

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Jan 29, 2012 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

I could get behind Upshaw and Irvin being our first two choices. We have to keep stacking talent.

I like to believe this has more to do with the Bills players feeling like they can be something special. They started a year 0-8 and finished 4-4 while taking playoff and championship game bound teams to OT and 3 pt nail biters. All this with one year under a new coach and with a young roster. Im sure they can feel what they are capable of. -poz

by RBbills on Jan 29, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

Stacking talent?

We gotta get some first…..

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Jan 29, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

ZING!

I like to believe this has more to do with the Bills players feeling like they can be something special. They started a year 0-8 and finished 4-4 while taking playoff and championship game bound teams to OT and 3 pt nail biters. All this with one year under a new coach and with a young roster. Im sure they can feel what they are capable of. -poz

by RBbills on Jan 29, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I like this scenario too. IMO two LBs in the first two rounds would be the most beneficial. (I’m over my brief tannehill obsession)

"Aw snap, aw snap, come to my macaroni party and we'll take a nap!"

by J0ckam0 on Jan 29, 2012 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

rec'd

great post as always…

by astrazz2 on Jan 29, 2012 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

Fantastic article

As usual DJ. Interesting points to consider both for FA and for the draft. I too like Hightower for the Sam/now Will position. If only we could get him in the 2nd:(

Assuming we do transition to a Wannstedt 4-3, question I have is how do you recruit FA’s to come play the Jack/RE spot when they would have to replace Merriman in the lineup? That has to be a difficult spot for Nix. Would this make it more likely to mean we try to fill the new Sam/Will through FA and the Jack through the draft? What are your thoughts? Do you see Shawn on the roster now that we are moving away from the traditional Jack?

Lot to digest in one article:). Keep up the good work!!

by DJ O on Jan 29, 2012 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

If I were the GM, here's what I'd do:

My number one off-season priority would be getting Mario Williams to Buffalo. Remember Minnesota’s suffocating defense from 2007-2008? That’s what Buffalo would have with a Williams – Dareus – Williams – Carrington/Kelsay front.

If I couldn’t get Williams, I’d look next to Cliff Avril.

I’d lean towards free agency to fill the Jack/end spot. There’s no one in the draft that I think is an ideal, explosive, blocking scheme changing talent aside from Coples, and he’s not a proven hard worker.

I’d look at the draft to fill the Sam position. If Buffalo plays more of a 46, Merriman, Batten, and Moats can man the spot. If Buffalo goes to more of a traditional 4-3, then Buffalo can look to someone in the mid-rounds in the draft.

Merriman’s got a home if he’s healthy. If Buffalo stays hybrid, he can play at Jack. If Buffalo goes straight 46, he could be the Sam. If Buffalo goes straight 4-3, he could be a situational pass rusher.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

in your opinion

Does this development lesson the chance of drafting upshaw?

"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-

by billsoferie on Jan 29, 2012 4:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Depends

If Wannstadt is looking at keeping the hybrid defense, then Upshaw fits. If Wannstadt goes for more of a pure 46, Upshaw fits. If Wannstadt goes to more of a traditional 4-3, Upshaw could fit as an end, but not as a linebacker.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Curry?

After watching him yesterday i think that he’ll be this year’s Von Miller if he does a good showing at the Combine. I highly doubt that he’ll still be there in the second after his showing at the Senior Bowl.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Curry

Seems like you have been mentioning him in every article. He looked pretty good, and I may be wrong, but he doesn’t have NEARLY the physical tools of an Aldon Smith or V Miller to have the same impact

by fanick82 on Jan 29, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure what his mesurables are but his ability to play isn’t far behind Upshaw’s or Ingram’s. In fact was at about the same level as Ingram. But no he wont be a top ten pick this year I think that he’ll now go somewhere in the first. Meaning I’d start considering him because he wont be there when we pick in the second round.

Buffalo Rumblings
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by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Curry's a strict 4-3 end

I don’t see him as Von Miller at all. Unless you’re talking about Miller’s rise to the second pick of the draft…. in that case. I think Curry goes low first / high second. But he is rising.

In terms of talent, they aren’t similar. Miller’s game is speed and movement, with some power. Miller is a legitimate linebacker.

Curry can move like Miller can, and I’d never put Curry at linebacker. His game is more power than speed, but he integrates both. If Buffalo goes to a 4-3 full time, I’d say Curry is in play if he falls to Buffalo in the second.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I was talking in terms of draft stock, but not at a Von Miller level. I’m thinking that he might rise to mid first, around 20th.

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Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

But if he is there when we pick in the second I’m thinking that he would be a steal.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Curry’s a strict 4-3 end
I don’t see him as Von Miller at all. Unless you’re talking about Miller’s rise to the second pick of the draft…. in that case. I think Curry goes low first / high second. But he is rising.

this is what i see as well. though- he MIGHT be able to transition to LB, in a 34, someday maybe, for those of us still holding out hopes of an eventual change. Though those days are probably already over.

Miller is absolutely a prototype example, and plays like one.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

You know Jack

Linebackers very well. Sorry no real football on a Sunday and im losing it. Awesome article and im looking forward to part 3. So if i get this correct, if Wanny does implement a 4-3 and with all of our (or my) dream acquisitions the front 7 would look like:

Williams-Dareus-Williams-Upshaw and then Merriman-Barnett-Curry…is that correct?

My question is where does Shep fit in all of this? is he now designated to only seeing the field as Barnett’s backup?

by NHBillzFan on Jan 29, 2012 5:45 PM EST reply actions  

Shep would actually be the starting MLB in a 4-3.

With Barnett moving to the weak strong side OLB position. Curry would also be a DE in the 4-3.

Buffalo Rumblings
Where shoes are haute cuisine.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand all this, but in a way – its scheme mumbo jumbo. I don’t expect many on this board know who Paul “Bear” Bryant is, but he said: “I’ll take my eleven, and whoop your 11, or I’ll take your eleven and whoop my eleven.” Or something to that effect.

There seems to be this overall desire to look at a switch to a 4-3 defense as further evidence of OBD’s latest and greatest colossal fubar. Oey Vey. To my mind, that is just the glass mostly empty folks looking for evidence that they’re right. Oy vey.

Really? Who cares? Football isn’t this complicated – this board often has paralysis by analysis. It is blocking, tackling and decent coaching. Wannstadt is an upgrade at d-coordinator, no mattter what “scheme” he runs.
Put decent players on the field, and put them in the best position to succeed.

I’m not a smart man – but I know what d is. A healthy Kyle Williams next to Marcel Dareus with even a pedestrian Kelsay on one end and a #10 overall pick- whether it is Upshaw or Coples is one formidable front 4.

Lets not over think this, eh?

by LeClaire Bill on Jan 29, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

To a point, I agree

But, the days of Bear Bryant are long gone. Teams today are much more advanced in terms of game plans then they were in the 60’s and even the 70’s. You didn’t have play books like they do today. You didn’t have facial play variations based on what the defense did. Heck, you didn’t even have QB’s throwing to a spot, not a player until the famous Don “Air” Coyell created that with Fouts. Or the West Coast offense. Or the 46 defense. Things are much more complicated today.
Where I agree is that talent wins football games. Against lesser talented teams. Coaching beats teams that are even in talent tho. The Pats lost to the Giants in the super bowl a few years ago due to a better game plan that Brady couldn’t handle. This match up will be very interesting. I thought that the hoodie played it too safe. I wonder if he will do the same this time. However, Brady has looked “average” in his last few games against teams with good pass rushers, so, is he up to that task?

by suteck on Jan 29, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

the game has not fundamentally changed. you block. you tackle. you run.
all this gnashing of teeth abouut what d scheme the bills run is ridiculous. tackle the guy with
the ball.
goofy. paralysis by analysis by people who need to get a job.

by LeClaire Bill on Jan 29, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Scheme is a very important of defensive strategy. I doubt very much that, regardless of the players you have, scheme doesn’t matter when playing teams like the Patriots.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jan 29, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

nah. not reallly. you can either play football or you can’t. this whole over analysis is comical.

by LeClaire Bill on Jan 29, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, we’ll have to disagree on that. The Bills were much better than the Giants in 1990, and they got beat because they were outcoached and outschemed. Talent is a lot, but the Patriots are far from the most talented team in the league. They win because Bellichick continuously outfoxes opponents as much as they win because of Brady. I think it somewhat naive to assume that more talented players will always win regardless of scheme.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jan 29, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I sort of see what you're saying

Because, at the end of the day, defense is about player talent.

But the reality of the NFL is that there are schemes, and they do help. This article isn’t overthinking. I’m trying to explain these concepts for the fan base on BR. And, my argument has been that alignment doesn’t matter, which agrees with your point of view.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

The ends have to be able to play head up on the guard or tackle and control two gaps, penetrate one gap, set the edge if needed, beat one-on-one blocks, and absorb double-teams.

This sounds like a task someone like Kelsay, is not going to handle. I realize that you have him as a OLB still, but that is only correct, assuming ALL that you wrote is correct. As in:

Alex Carrington and Dwan Edwards are good fits for these positions. Carrington is more of a movement player, with the ability to penetrate gaps and rush the passer. His long arms are also an advantage in closing passing lanes. Edwards plays with more power and absorbs double teams better. Heard can play end and also absorb double teams and mans two gaps. Spencer Johnson is best used at the end position in one-gap schemes.

Carrington and Edwards are typical for 43 DTs. Not the DE position – as you describe. Their primary role wouldn’t be run stopping, it would be pass rushing. The purpose of a 4 man front is to bring 4 men after the QB/RB behind the line, while the LBs fill gaps. The DEs are not typically going to be commanding many double teams, and are more responsible for controlling contain, while getting upfield. Though I don’t doubt these guys can both do that.. I question their ability to rush the passer, and with good reason. They are DTs being asked to play on the edge, and in space, and get to the passer, none of which are their roles in the 34.

Buffalo needs four ends, and has three of them on the roster in Dareus, Carrington, and Edwards.

I totally agree- we need four ends- because we basically have 0. A maybe in merriman, and kelsay, who rode the pine behind the likes of Schobel and Denney while managing some of the worst pass rushes in a decade. Merriman may not even make the team, and Kelsay was better as an OLB because he is far better at getting into the backfield, than he does at run contain… so he MIGHT be a good/average LE which is giving more credit than I ever have to the guy, as I think he is a below average LE historically.

aside from this, i am not sure how showing what we used to do in a 34, is somehow reasoning as to why we are in no trouble to run the 43, when we have too few DEs (we disagree) and too few OLBs… along with excess MLBs and DTs. So, IMO, we are going from drafting middle defense for a 34, to needing outside defense for a 43, which will surely mean eliminating guys who could have been 34 DE/DTs… (so basically we will cut our developing/developed depth) so that we can still have the same needs as we would for a 34, and yet less depth because we need SO MANY guys to fill those other roles (at least 4 even by your standard, and more like 8 according to mine).That just still seems like moving backwards some, when we really aren’t decreasing needs by a scheme switch, we are increasing them, because we will still need corners, we still need LBs, and we now are going to need our safeties to be involved in run support AND covering TEs again, which we couldn’t do all this year, or in previous years when we tried MOST of these same guys (or guys very similar to them) in a 43.

I guess you can look at it as we need to draft 1 OLB (hightower?) and we are good- what i see is a team devoid of LBS and pass rushers. Look at the names you think of when you look at the Giants DL- Tuck. Umenyiora, JPP… We have zero guys similar.

What I foresee us looking more like, is the Cincinnati 43- where we are far more lacking in LBs (not to mention large athletic safeties) than what they have. otherwise, we have very similar sized players, and assuming Dwan could be quick enough (doubt it) and Carrington can drop that weight he added, or gain some athleticism (somehow?) then MAYBE if they are our starting DEs (we have no backups then) and then we still have BARELY a starting LB core (even by your standard) and thus, have just as many, if not more needs. All because the ’Stache is gonna be our savior, apparently.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 6:47 PM EST reply actions  

de from this, i am not sure how showing what we used to do in a 34, is somehow reasoning as to why we are in no trouble to run the 43, when we have too few DEs (we disagree) and too few OLBs… along with excess MLBs and DTs.

I see that this was written already, and you are going to need additional time for the next article, i look forward to seeing that laid out, and then be able to see if the visual helps me.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it your intent to just argue every well positioned point that any person makes?
Sure seems that way.

by LeClaire Bill on Jan 29, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Why so angry?

I know you don’t mean it, but it really comes off that way sometimes.

"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 29, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

If you are talking to me, Sarge, no.
The Real Truth just seems hell bent on arguing any point that any reasonable
perrson tries to make.
As SirEric said – there is a good reason that reasonable people don’t frequent
this board anymore. Which is a shame – as Brian, Matt and the other writers do
an outstanding job.
Look at the harrassment that Der Jaeger gets. Its embarassing. Kids want to argue every
point with him. Ugh.

by LeClaire Bill on Jan 29, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I don't mind

Truth be told, it’s actually helpful for me. I’m getting ready to defend my monograph, and I’ve got to be real sharp on fallacies, types of arguments, etc.

I do see what you’re saying though.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It wasn’t at you either DJ. You are awesome.
Along with Brian, Eric, MRW, Ron I wish I understood more about the X’s and O’s like you guys do.

My bad……… I forgot about my boy Poz too!

"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 29, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't mind any challenges to what I write

So there’s no need to say anything.

Everything I write is for attribution, and all my arguments are up for challenges. If someone disagrees, I want them to write back. There’s nothing to be gained from groupthink or sycophants.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

thank you DJ

because I feel as though, just because sometimes my frustration with what seems like at very least, questionable decision making when under scrutiny… doesn’t mean that I don’t make valid points, or that I am somehow close to consideration of his view. I not only read what he has to say, I ask questions (sometimes misinterpreted I guess, but we are working it out) and I pose questions to better understand opposing views, less for practicing argument, and more to understanding perspectives. I prefer to “see where someone is coming from” and sometimes that means questioning “why”. like “why do you see or feel that traditional 43 DTs are going to translate as 43 DEs?” Is there some sort of example he has? Is it some type of scheming that he is imagining/recollecting that i am unfamiliar? Does he view things objectively, or subjectively… ? All these things should be considered in most discussions here, I feel. I try to do that. If you want to hear why, here is a short list of just a few thoughts:

4-12. 6-10. Making schemes switches after 2 years, which is certainly questionable, for most new regimes would rather at least TRY for continuity, as it gives a seemingly better opportunity for success in the long term as well. It SEEMS questionable to make that change in staff, and scheme, and draft philosophy, and re-interpretation of the roster….

OR

We were simply told what we wanted to hear, from some guys who have been around the block, and once in, are just kinda flying by the seat of their pants, and trying to do anything and everything, EXCEPT traditionally approaching team building.

No 1-3 RD OL? 7th round QB? Can’t resign a 7th round WR? Meanwhile re-signs 7th rd QB, DT who was somehow playing with a nagging injury that the staff was somehow not aware enough about to question his huge contract, re-signing the FB who is on the field for 6-10 (depending how many scores we let in) plays in a game on special teams, Re-signing Kelsay as if he is some elite LB/DE even PROSPECTIVELY. And i don’t care to rant and rave about running vs passing.

Fact is that after being here, and watching and paying so close attention, I am starting to see the organization for what it really truly is when compared to the true “examples” of the league… Which it seems is completely, and totally inept.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

perhaps I should note

In the LEAST GENERIC WAY POSSIBLE:

That this is an excellent read, for sure, especially for those individuals that might otherwise not fully understand all the points that are made, or the information that is not only required, but presented in the work above. Great work, as usual. That matter is not, and never was in contention. It isn’t from lack of appreciation for the material: I am taking it to the next level, where we also critique the work, question the message, and try and understand the author, along with the content. At least, that is why I am here, and that was what I was doing. Appreciate the effort and time DJ. It gives me a forum for us to have these discussions.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

@LeClaire Bill

I was referring to ThaRealTruth. Not you.

He posts a lot of good info, once in a while it comes off a little overdone.

"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 29, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i will admit to have a flare for the dramatic sometimes

mostly when I am passionate about a view. I certainly, have a tendency to go overboard a little,when someone attacks me though. I admit to having this problem, I am quick to apologize and try to reconcile, but at the same time, I intend to support my view with some logic, some experience, and some wishful thinking also. But just in slightly or varying degrees of others. If you read my posts, you will often see that I recognize the POTENTIAL that we have all over our roster. In a way, we have abounding potential. But, and this is a huge BUT… I sure would like us to recognize this same potential sooner, and capitalize better, before it is gone, which happens too often as it is. Look how many former Bills were in the playoffs… look how many in the Pro Bowl. Look how many of ours made it this year. Least sacks in the league? No matter. Most interceptions in the league. 5-2 start…. no matter. 1-8 finish. I mean, we can barely make a case for ourselves in most instances, and far too often, these guys who left were showing signs of ability FAR before we used them. Greer? He could have been starting 2 whole YEARS earlier! We let guys like Leonard play due to injury, has 2 INTs his first two games… gets hurt- and released, and now the Jets (our division opponent) have a perennial starter, for pennies. I mean, it isn’t like we can control where guys end up…. UNLESS WE KEEP THEM. Right?

I mean… there are so many things that just boggle my mind in reference to recognizing what guys can play, and when to friggen put em out there.

I can speak postively for this staff in that one regard for sure. We are getting the early picks, into the lineup early, and it has been always a foregone conclusion (Dareus was solid for sure, if not above average) or a pleasant surprise (I was a fan of Williams and Shepp and Hairston as I noted: but Searcy and Rogers both were pleasant surprises, and I am still quite interested in seeing Nesbitt. He is kinda like Brad Smith on defense in a way.. I think that notion is interesting enough to want to see more). All in all- I am ready for these guys to finally stick to their guns, give this team an identity, and utilize the strengths of this roster, and stop playing backyard figure it out as you go kinda crap. I wanna see Sean Peyton style offensive archetype if that is the route we wanna go. If you really wanna run spread, and challenge the offense, and prove that Fitz is the guy you wanna spoon feed him as, then- let’s go. Do it to it. I am all about it.

Same regard: If you wanna be a pin your ears back fly around defense…. awesome. if you wanna be big bulking bruisers on defense, and RUN THE BALL EVER- NOW you sound like a cold weather Buffalo team that wants to compete, and win, and get back to the playoffs.

I am ready for a TODDLER at this point… Still aint seen no gal dern baby gentlemen. I guess that is the moral of this rant.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 30, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

This sounds like a task someone like Kelsay, is not going to handle. I realize that you have him as a OLB still, but that is only correct, assuming ALL that you wrote is correct

Kelsay should never, and likely will never, play 3-4 defensive end. He’s either a 4-3 end, or an outside linebacker.

Carrington and Edwards are typical for 43 DTs. Not the DE position – as you describe. Their primary role wouldn’t be run stopping, it would be pass rushing. The purpose of a 4 man front is to bring 4 men after the QB/RB behind the line, while the LBs fill gaps. The DEs are not typically going to be commanding many double teams, and are more responsible for controlling contain, while getting upfield. Though I don’t doubt these guys can both do that.. I question their ability to rush the passer, and with good reason. They are DTs being asked to play on the edge, and in space, and get to the passer, none of which are their roles in the 34

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. That Edwards and Carrington aren’t 4-3 ends? In the article, I argued that they were 3-4 ends. It reads like you are arguing that Edwards and Carrington aren’t 4-3 ends. If that’s the argument, then I agree and disagree. In a 4-3, Edwards is a DT, but I think Carrington has the movement skills to play a strongside end.

Again, the article isn’t describing 4-3 ends. It’s describing 3-4 ends.

we need four ends- because we basically have 0. A maybe in merriman, and kelsay, who rode the pine behind the likes of Schobel and Denney while managing some of the worst pass rushes in a decade

This comment makes most sense if were talking 4-3. But I’m describing a 3-4. Dareus, Edwards, and Carrington are 3 of the 4 3-4 ends I’m talking about.

If Buffalo goes 4-3, I’d argue that Kelsay and Carrington make a decent platoon at the strongside end, but Buffalo would still need two ends, and and upgrade over the Kelsay/Carrington combo.

Kelsay didn’t play behind Denney except in his first two years. He started over Denney from then out, including getting 5.5 sacks in his first year in the Tampa 2.

aside from this, i am not sure how showing what we used to do in a 34, is somehow reasoning as to why we are in no trouble to run the 43

I can see where this article is confusing based on our last conversation. I wrote two articles yesterday: this article and a 4-3 transition depth article. I was writing this article when SMT broke the Wannstedt 4-3 news from Sirius radio. So I wrote the 4-3 depth chart article. It should run soon.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

all of this was basically me trying to understand why you felt that these skillsets applied to the 43, and how you saw these guys in those roles. I don’t completely disagree that they could transition but in general: I just don’t see them at all as 43 DEs… and so I am basically speaking to the fact that our roster is totally different by scheme, because we spent 2 years jettisoning 43 talent, and bringing in 34 talent. So, I just think that we are going to need a TON of versatile guys (the most sought after, of course) in order to be able to approach a “personnel based” package system, which it seems is obviously what they want. They want a team of hybrids, and it is going to take another 4 years to get them all, so i don’t understand flip-flopping back and forth, if the ultimate goal is to field a team of prototypes, in ideal spots- because that is basically 34 all the way.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

When the next article comes out, you'll see where I think players slot

If this transition happens, the only players that don’t fit are Batten and Moats. And that’s only if Buffalo goes to a strict 4-3. If they go to a NY Giants style 4-3 (which is a 46 derivative), then everyone fits somewhere. And they’re mostly good fits.

Probably need to take another time out, and wait until the 4-3 depth chart story posts. It might be tomorrow.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 29, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

If this transition happens, the only players that don’t fit are Batten and Moats. And that’s only if Buffalo goes to a strict 4-3. If they go to a NY Giants style 4-3 (which is a 46 derivative), then everyone fits somewhere. And they’re mostly good fits.

Color me appropriately skeptical, while quietly optimistic, and probably most notably: realistically pessimistic. Hahaha.

Take your time. I just was looking at this article in a more assuming way than I think it was intended; I thought it was a speculation on how the two systems have primary similarities, and roster requirements…. But that I think is a different level/intention than you had, obviously… And the points that I make are far more a reference to the “good fits” that you see, that I am far more concerned with.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 29, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't have to take that long

Transitioning to a 4-3 with the option to hybrid to a 3-4 doesn’t have to take that long.

Here’s how the Bills can do it:

Defensive line—Sign Cliff Avril (I don’t think the Bills can afford Mario Williams) or another competent pass-rushing DE. Draft Upshaw to play DE in the 4-3. Moats was a pass-rushing DE (set records in college). He, Kelsay, Carrington and Batten (also a pass-rushing DE in college) are your back-ups. Troup, Heard and the other big man play the 1-tech spot, Dareus and Williams play the 3-tech, with Dareus switching to the 1-tech in pass-rushing situtations. IF Merriman is healthy and can play DE, he rotates in at that position.

Linebacker—Draft an OLB in the second round: Lavonte David is the ideal 4-3 WILL LB in this draft. Sheppard plays MLB, backed up by Morrison (would have to re-sign him) or McKillop (who played the position in college). Barnett can play either SAM or WILL LB—he put up great numbers for Green Bay at WILL LB before they transitioned to a 3-4 defense. White or Batten can be his back-up at the SAM LB spot (or, if White looks like a better fit at MLB, the Bills could sign a FA to fill the SAM spot, although I doubt they’d spent the money to do so). IF Merriman is healthy and doesn’t want to play DE, he could start the season at the WILL position with the rookie as his back-up.

Secondary—A 4-3 defense allows for more zone coverages than a 3-4 (where it really helps to have a top “shutdown corner”, which is expensive). The Bills have DBs who can play in a 4-3 set-up but, regardless of whether they play a 3-4 or 4-3, they still need to draft a CB or sign on in free agency this offseason. After taking Upshaw in the 1st round and a OLB in the second, they can fill this need by drafting a CB in Round 3.

By signing two free agents—one if they resign Morrison—and re-signing Stevie Johnson, Bell and Chandler on the offensive side, the Bills could not only make the transition to a 4-3, but retain the possibility of hybriding to a 3-4 on occasion without a great deal of difficulty in the manner that I have just described.

Later mid-round picks could be used to select a speed receiver (there are a couple of smaller ones who should be available in Round 4) and offensive line depth. The later rounds can be used for a QB to develop and depth on either side of the ball based on BPA.

The defense would be young and inexperienced in the new scheme (which it has been anyway), but would have the potential to be pretty good within a year barring a spate of serious injuries (always a key to success in the NFL). And, the offense wouldn’t be bad, again, barring serious injuries to key players.

Those who do not learn fromt eh past are doomed to repeat it.

by LifetimeBillsFan on Jan 30, 2012 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't think I ever said it wasn't possible.

I think that it is a stretch to say the least that we will land Avril, or Williams, because both are going to look to go to contenders, because if they can’t- at least with Avril- they may as well return to their own teams. If that possibility doesn’t exist, then they will be looking for the first team to maybe get them to the Super Bowl, and Buffalo probably isn’t that place, just yet.

Transitioning to a 4-3 with the option to hybrid to a 3-4 doesn’t have to take that long.

well, then why has it been 2 years, and we are basically no closer, and now, are moving backwards? seems like this transition is likely to take forever, because we can’t accomplish it to begin with, so we just give up.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 30, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec.'d

Fantastic article again DJ. Thankyou.

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

by BruceSmith78 on Jan 29, 2012 6:50 PM EST reply actions  

I got a suggestion for the Front Office

If you need to draft a defensive player in any round just pluck one off of either Alabama or LSU, sit back, relax and watch them grow. Done (if only it was so simple)!

by telka on Jan 29, 2012 8:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Sorry, just wrong

Usually I’ve been quite impressed by your pieces. But this time, both parts are just too simplistic and … irrelevant.

The first piece addressed possible positioning along the line. The second, a very general description of responsibilities for the front 7. But you cannot divorce the two, they are intrinsically linked. Sorry. That is what a scheme is all about.

For example, let’s assume you are running a 4-3 scheme. Not all responsibilities are the same. In some, it’s about play read-and-recognition. Others, it’s about gap penetration, not gap control. There have been similar issues with some claiming that KW can’t play 3-4 N because of his size, which is patently untrue. It simply depends upon the scheme and his responsibilities. He is not a two-gap space-eater supposed to stay at home, as per many traditional 3-4 schemes. Yet in those such as the Philips 3-4, he is a perfect fit as they require a one gap NT who can penetrate … just like another Pro Bowl NT, Jay Ratliffe. There is nothing new in this.

A front defines the physical layout but not necessarily the defense scheme and responsibilities. Even last year in our 4-3, our hybrid defenders worried about gap control and their different responsibilities within each defense. Young (and vet too) defenders were asked to think before playing. Alternatively, in a 4-3 over the front 4 is asked to penetrate and get after the ball, spill the play to the outside AND not worry about setting the edge. A much simpler defense to learn and play in, as it requires less thinking and more simply playing football. Different responsibilities. The two don’t exist in isolation.

Psycho Jungle Cat

by kanatablues on Jan 30, 2012 6:48 AM EST reply actions  

Do you really think that I don't understand the difference between one gap and two gap schemes?

Or how their use, separate or in combination, make the defensive scheme? This wasn’t about showing you the entire Bills defensive playbook. This article was about basic responsibilities, with each position looked at separately to avoid confusion. The intent was to show how Buffalo’s current personnel fit, or how they don’t fit, and who could be brought in to fit the scheme.

I understand the link between player, alignment, and responsibility to create a scheme. Show me a way to convey that together over a computer without interactive or moving pieces, and I’ll write the article.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 30, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry, no disrespect is intended BUT ...

I have a very serious problem with the title of the articles, “Why The Buffalo Bills’ Defensive Alignment Doesn’t Matter”. Because I certainty do believe that it does. The 4-3 hybrid scheme we’ve been running is necessarily more complicated, with players having more responsibilities for gap control, coverage, etc. Any system utilizing any sort of a 3-4 is inherently more ‘gimmicky’, more difficult to learn, requires more thinking by the front 4, relies on finding tweener players, etc. There’s a reason Buddy said that part our shortcomings on defense last year was botched assignments and mistakes. Not all 4-3 schemes are equal, tho the physical formations may appear similar, the philosophy and responsibilities may be different. And therefore the requirements for the players in the scheme differ.

Wanny’s 4-3 over certainly differs in some key respects from what we’ve been running. The philosophy behind any defense shapes each players responsibilities, more so than simply the base formation. The 4-3 over does requires two bigger and/or talented DTs in the middle capable of dominating the middle. But the 2 DEs are not supposed to worry about setting the edge, their purpose is to get after the ball, and spill the play to the outside for the DBs and Lbs to mop us. It’s why it requires smaller DEs (~6’3 260 lbs) similar in size to 3-4 WOLBs, they don’t have to think as much about gap responsibilities – just get after the ball!. The point of the defense is to put smaller, more athletic tweeners onto the field while not sacrificing run defense. At the will, for example, Scott/Searcy may actually be starters in the base defense.

I have found Buddy’s comments about running the 4-3/3-4 50/50 very disingenuous, just as his remarks that the scheme itself doesn’t matter, they just wish to put the best players onto the field. Of course the scheme matters. Good DCs are hired based on their expertise implementing and running their system. If you are told the DC is Nolan, Capers, Phillips, Lebeau, etc you can predict what the base defense will be. Wannstedt has 20 years experience running the 4-3 over (including Pitt), he’s demonstrated success with it, why would his base defense be anything else? At the NFL level, small differences in expertise/knowledge can result in huge differences in performance and game outcomes.

Psycho Jungle Cat

by kanatablues on Jan 30, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Scheme does matter

I agree with kanatablues.

It is a good supposition but I find the logic weak and dependent on pre-snap alignment. Not responsibilities during the play, which is what drives the type of traits you’re looking for in player you bring on board.

We don’t have players for a 3-4, a 4-3 or 4-6.

So it doesn’t matter if Wanny changes the base scheme because we don’t have the players to play either scheme today.

He mentions we’re 2 years in a rebuild of a transition to a 3-4 but I argue we haven’t transitioned anything in LB core.

Barnett is really the only LB you would want to keep. Shepp has shown some flashes but he plays the same position as Barnett and Kelsay is much better as a DE than a stand up backer.

The core concept of a 3-4 is you have 3 down linemen and send a forth rusher from any LB spot. Generally the “Jack” player will be the 4th rusher but that player has to also be able to drop back and cover when you send pressure from a different LB spot. Something a 4-3 DE would only do in an exotic blitz package.

So the scheme does matter no matter where the players line up pre-snap.

Chris Kelsay should be the prime example of why scheme matters. He is a horrible OLB. A liability on the field at OLB. but actually is a very good, better than average 4-3 DE.

Scheme does matter.

by Why So Serious?! on Jan 30, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to seem like I'm avoiding what you wrote

But my title says “alignment.” You’re arguing scheme. Of note, I never talked Bullough-Fairbanks, B-F with an elephant, Tampa 2, attacking 46, one-gap 3-4, zone-blitz 3-4, etc. I’m talking alignment. You’re talking scheme, and as I explained above, talking scheme isn’t something that I think we can go in depth about without a white board.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 30, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Mea culpa

Ok. I must admit that I read something into the intro in part one that was not actually there. It was late, I was tired. I did not sleep with that woman. Sorry. Your premise in part 1 is that there was not really a clear distinction between how the Bills 3-4 and 4-3 defensive fronts operate based on player alignment on the field. Ok, sure. Very nice job there, btw.

Next, you state that you believe the Bills will continue to run the same 3-4 hybrid scheme. I don’t agree with that at all, for some of the reasons I rambled about above, as well as others. Time will tell. And of course, part 2 is about the 3-4 hybrid scheme itself and what players/draft prospects could be brought in to improve the scheme. Fair enough.

Btw, I really, really hate this defense.

Psycho Jungle Cat

by kanatablues on Jan 30, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

No worries

But I don’t think I said that I believed the Bills will continue to use a 3-4. I wrote a story for today that outlined what a move to the 4-3 might look like, at least depth chart-wise.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 30, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW, also not a 3-4 fan

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 30, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

hahaha

clearly. ; )

In this regard, we again disagree. 43 is so hard to disguise, and is so crazy basic. I can’t believe after like, what, 20 years- Wanny never learned it. I assume this, because we have to switch now, basically because of him.

Go Texans.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 30, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So it sounds like you're saying scheme does matter.

Which is correct.

So yes where you place the chess pieces isn’t as important as what the chess piece does.

by Why So Serious?! on Jan 30, 2012 12:20 PM EST reply actions  

Not what I said or wrote

Alignment doesn’t matter.

Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.

by Der Jaeger on Jan 30, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

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