Chan Gailey On Bills' Defensive Switch: "It's Easier To Find People"
by Brian Galliford on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
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When Buffalo Bills head coach Chan Gailey announced very early in his tenure that the team would be converting to a 3-4 defense, he and then-coordinator George Edwards made sure to repeatedly note that they'd be running alignments that fit their personnel. After two seasons in which the Bills ran more even front than odd, Gailey announced Monday that they'd be moving back to a base 4-3 under new coordinator Dave Wannstedt.
The Bills were not successful in importing sufficient 3-4 talent in that two-year experimental period, which Gailey acknowledged in Mondays press conference when he admitted that it's easier to find 4-3 personnel these days.
"It's easier to find people," Gailey said. "It's tougher to find people for the true 3-4 in a lot of ways, so it makes it a little bit easier to find some people from time to time to run a four-man front than it does a three-man front. It gets extremely hard to find those outside 'backers year in and year out; it gets tougher and tougher."
It had better be easier, because not only do the Bills need pass rushers, they now also need a starting-caliber strong-side linebacker. More on that later.
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Easier to find people?
I have a vague recollection that was the reason the Bills switched to the 3-4 in the first place.
I had a drink the other day
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I was giving them away
-Modest Mouse
When you’re looking for an apple, its easy to find oranges. When you’re looking for an orange, it’s easy to find apples. If you’re the Bills, at least.
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by Scott Kenny on Jan 31, 2012 9:26 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
They’ve found a lot of lemons.
by BuffaloRepresent on Jan 31, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
sour lemons?
The fans are going to be so loud they are going to hear us in the next Dimension - abayarde
by BillsFanSanDiego619 on Jan 31, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Has there ever been a sweet one?
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 31, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
My wife got these orange-lemon hybrids one time. Weren’t bad, but when you’re expecting sour and get sweet, its a little confusing.
I had a drink the other day
Opinions were like kittens
I was giving them away
-Modest Mouse
by oompaloompa on Jan 31, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t recall that – Chan said he wanted to run a 34 because he said it was a pain to play against. That plus Buddy had scouted for a 34 for the majority if not all of his career.
When I watched that interview I had a mini-epiphany:
Bill Belichick has been slammed by their followers for quite some time for not taking pass rushing OLBs – especially the past 2 drafts because that was their biggest need. Considering the treasure of 1st and 2nd round picks that they’ve accumulated and the lack of drafting those types of players given that it has been arguably their biggest need makes me think that Buddy and Chan are on the right page here.
Albeit a year or 2 too late – but at least they recognize this and are planning accordingly.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 31, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. I remember Gailey saying it was because it was hard to play against. At the time there were lots of teams converting to the 3-4, which, probably not coincidentally, was after the Steelers’ Super Bowl win I believe.
It’d be funny to read a thread discussing the conversion from 2 years ago. I seem to remember overwhelming positive reaction to it.
I think a problem with the old 4-3 is that it wasn’t very stout. I think this version will be different.
Yes, people were constantly clamoring for the 3-4, not realizing that the 4-3 doesn’t suck – the Bills’ version of the Tampa 2 sucked.
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by thefourwinds on Jan 31, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not arguing that the Bills D was good during the DJ era, but there were times when the ‘bend but don’t break’ philosophy worked OK. Hey, with a worse O, we were still 7-9. Our secondary wasn’t bad – our pass rush and run D was. How much of our secondary’s statistical performance was due to a non-existent pass rush and sieve run D is certainly part of the debate.
One of the biggest problems for our D in those days – and I think this holds for our present situation to an extent – was that the offense wasn’t doing enough to take time off the clock and give the D a rest. Unless you’ve got a dominating D who can TCB and force turnovers or punts on cue, they’re going to wear down and get tired by 3Q. I think it can be argued convincingly that an effective O early in the game does wonders for the D’s performance.
I had a drink the other day
Opinions were like kittens
I was giving them away
-Modest Mouse
by oompaloompa on Jan 31, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
epiphany indeed,
I just looked at the 2010 draft and there were 6 (DT), 6(DE), and 2(SOLB) taken by 4-3 teams in the first two rounds. 8 of the 14 were taken in the first round. Compare that with 3(NT), 2(DE), and 4(OLB) taken by 3-4 teams of which only 2 of the 9 were taken in the first round. The talent is definately on the 4-3 side. Which begs the question “What were we thinking”. I like many on here was all for the switch, but in hind sight I see this as a major mistake. I am glad they have fixed that problem. The two year gaff could very well be there undoing though. I hope not and I am still on board with CHIX, but if they cant pull out some wins in year three the screams will be loud, clear, and justified.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
At least our biggest draft investment, Dareus, is versatile enough to form a nice inside duo with KW, and in fact may be better suited to the DT role (as is KW) than forcing improper fits with those two at NT and DE. Stay healthy, and add some rushers and I think the D can make some huge strides. I love the front anyway!
by BuffaloRepresent on Jan 31, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Your vague recollection, non-vaguely recalled: Gailey said that because of the extra linebacker the 3-4 called for, the team would have an easier time finding special teamers.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 31, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Hard to keep track of the changes in direction. That’s what I come here for!
I had a drink the other day
Opinions were like kittens
I was giving them away
-Modest Mouse
by oompaloompa on Jan 31, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I have a vague recollection that was the reason the Bills switched to the 3-4 in the first place.
Gailey actually Gailey said we were going to a 3-4 because it was so darn hard to play against when he faced it.
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by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 31, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
It's the power of the MouSTaCHe
Old Davey boy has never ran a 3-4 D. I say we draft 7 4-3 DEs, this way we have a shot of at least 1 being decent.
by Section312AgainstCanadians on Jan 31, 2012 9:38 AM EST reply actions
I'm not sure what I make of this
He didn’t realize that it was difficult 3-4 OLB before he switched?? Something is not right here…He looked as if he hasn’t shaved for a couple weeks, a bit disshelved, and uninterested…Whats wrong with our fearless leader?
Don't forget...
At the time, Nix and Gailey thought they had inherited a first-round pick who fit the mold of a 3-4 OLB a whole lot better than as a 4-3 DE (where he was badly undersized). Turns out that while that much was true, Aaron Maybin lacked motivation even after the change in scheme, and he only continued to get lighter to the point that he didn’t even fit as a 3-4 OLB.
Having Maybin become such a bust totally destroyed any hope of changing to the 3-4.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 10:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well Maybin was here while Nix was a scout
So he knew what kind of player Maybin was before he took over as GM.
Tom Modrak was in charge of the scouting department at that time, not Nix. Modrak was another front office moron who proved his incompetence with a decade of poor drafts. As soon as his scouting reports were obsolete (following the 2011 draft), Nix canned him.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 11:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nix was here, apart of the organization and new what kind of player Maybin was. To say that he inherited a 3-4 OLB in Maybin, and thought he could count on him, isn’t accurate…
Maybin was a bad fit at 4-3 DE (badly undersized) but looked like the prototype 3-4 OLB. He was one of the reasons why they wanted to switch. Unfortunately, Maybin didn’t give a rat’s a$$ either way. It wasn’t until he was cut by both the Bills and the Jets that he finally woke up. Even so, he lost too much weight this past off-season, so now he is just an overpaid designated pass rusher.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They also thought they had Schobel, who decided not to show up.
This was a major hit to the plan also.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
Schobel didn’t show up because he was given an ultimatum, switch to OLB or you’re gone. Schobel chose the latter.
sure, I guess my point was that the team had no idea that would happen when they made the switch
and it was a clear blow to the plan
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
I think it’s too hard to find the prototype 3-4 OLB. There just aren’t enough of them to go around.
If Dareus and Williams are capable of getting 5.5 sacks while facing double-teams, I can’t wait to see them in one-on-one situations once we can add a solid pass rusher at DE.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 10:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
This exactly!!
They cant double both of them, we just need a solid 4-3 DE.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
It does seem fairly obvious that the 4-3 base seems to better fit the players they have, but this move should raise some questions about why this is necessary.
If George Edwards was the problem, then firing him and bringing in a more experienced 3-4 guy should have been tried. Chan Gailey needs to take some heat for the bad hire of George Edwards (and I expect after next season, David Lee).
If it’s a matter of not being able to find the personel, doesn’t that indict Buddy Nix’s ability to scout and draft? (I know, I know, too soon.) Houston managed to make this transition quite easily in a single season.
The 3-4 is a much harder defense to play against, as the defensive rankings CLEARLY indicate. Take a peek, see what the top 5 are running. Anyway, Buffalo, go ahead, run the 4-3. Maybe they will find it easier to fill positions in a statistically weaker defensive front. At this point, we’re all be overjoyed to accept mediocre instead of abysmal.
The hardest part of a 3-4 is finding the OLBs. Houston was able to start with Mario Williams and move him to OLB. They also have one of the best defensive coordinators in Wade Phillips. We started with Aaron Maybin and had a defensive coordinator we found in the $1 bin.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 10:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Houston
Mario Williams missed half the season and Houston didn’t skip a beat on defense. Frankly, their seamless one-year (short offseason) transition to the 3-4 juxtaposed against Nix’s utter failure to add the necessary talent/ the coaching staff’s inability to run the scheme with any sign of improvement over the course of two seasons showcases just how poorly this re-building plan has been executed thus far. Will plan B work out? I sure hope so; they don’t get plan C.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 31, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with one thing...
The defensive coaching staff was unable to run the scheme. George Edwards was a questionable hire, made the defense appear worse than it is, and he was held accountable.
Dave Wannstedt is a reputable defensive coordinator, and I think we will see a large improvement next season. It didn’t matter to me as to which scheme Wannstedt chose, but he is obviously more comfortable with the 4-3. Since Maybin was a bust and Merriman can’t stay healthy, they are better suited to the 4-3 anyway.
I still don’t see why you are pinning this on Nix and calling it an “utter failure”. I think you underestimate the value of a good defensive coordinator.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
the flip side
I think you underestimate the value of a good defensive coordinator.
You may overestimate the value of the current GM
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
I still think that good pieces are being put in place. I don’t just want to reach the playoffs, I want a dynasty. I think that is Nix’s goal as well.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's a combination of the two IMO.
If George Edwards was the problem, then firing him and bringing in a more experienced 3-4 guy should have been tried. Chan Gailey needs to take some heat for the bad hire of George Edwards (and I expect after next season, David Lee).
George Edwards wasn’t the whole problem, but he was definitely part of the problem. We’ve had marginal defensive talent for years, but the defense was not quite as terrible as it was the last 2 years.
As far as Chan taking heat for his miss on George Edwards, I agree. He’s responsible for all of his coaches obviously and I think his miss on DC has cost this team multiple wins each season.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Houston has pass rushers, period
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It looks like Gailey is serious about improving the defense
I’m glad we’re not sitting on our hands here, the decision has been made, it certainly looks justifiable, and that’s leadership. I’m only mildly pleased with the 4-3 itself, but much happier that Gailey’s moving to act strongly with this move.
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This is the right move.
This is the right move. Williams and Dareus are studs, and I really do think that by the end of the 2012-13 season, you’ll have been hard-pressed to have found a better tandem in the middle. They will generate some serious pressure up the middle and free up rushers from the outside. It should also really help Shep in the middle—he is a true inside backer, and this switch could allow him to thrive in that spot for years to come.
I think it also opens up that ten spot for us in the draft. There seem to be a lot of players who could man a spot on the End and succeed there, especially with the two horses anchoring the line. That may give us the option to grab a guy like Floyd at ten, and then come back for a guy like Branch or Mercilus in round two or maybe someone like Winn or Crick in round three.
In any event, I think it is by far the best move they could have made. I am curious as to what people think it does for the draft.
I think by the end of FA the team will have picked up a starting RDE, #2 WR, and some depth at SLB.
This will allow them to go LT in round one, then go back to SLB, and RDE in round two and three where there is good value. They still need to add some CB, TE, and WLB depth in the later rounds.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
I still think that drafting a left tackle depends on what they do with Bell. If they can address other needs (DE, WR, and CB) in free agency, then it makes sense to let Bell walk and draft his replacement. If they can’t address at least two of those needs, or if Stevie Johnson bolts to another team, then they will probably re-sign Bell and use the draft to fill the needs. There’s no reason to create more needs than you can adequately fill in the draft. Our depth is still weak, so we need to be able to draft for depth, too.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 11:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It essentially...
Makes us a lock to take Melvin Ingram… at this point he’s the only pass rusher worthy of the 1st pick, unless the Bills think Courtney Upshaw can put his hand on the ground full time.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
it's easier to find people
Translation: buddy nix could not do his job and bring in adequate personnel to run the 3-4 during his first two years as the GM
by MarkyMarkO on Jan 31, 2012 11:32 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
facepalm.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 31, 2012 11:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe he needs to use facebook?
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 31, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I also put this in the other thread on accident:
“Having done both, I think it’s easier to find personnel for the 3-4,” he said. “You can move linebackers and hide ‘em and bring them from different spots easier than you can take four down linemen that you know where they’re going to be all the time.” -Buddy Nix, circa 2010
by ra001m on Jan 31, 2012 1:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It would be easier to find if OBD start to draft them. “those outside ’backers” like Brooks Reed, Sam Acho or Justin Houston were there for Bills last year, but they are confident that the Merriman would make them look smart this year, and passed all this guys. I hope to see some changes this year with their strategy in draft and FA.
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