Recapping Two Years' Worth Of Buffalo Bills Defensive Transition
When the Buffalo Bills fired defensive coordinator George Edwards and promoted Dave Wannstedt to that role, the move was generally applauded by a Bills fan base sick of watching terrible Bills defense. As with any move, however, there has also been some panning, and very little of it has to do with Edwards or Wannstedt.
Edwards had experience in both 4-3 and 3-4 looks before coming to Buffalo, but had only ever coordinated a 4-3. In his two years on the job, the Bills - hell-bent on switching to a 3-4 - started the year out in an odd front, were terrible, then played more 4-3 as the year wore on and got negligibly better. With a big-name successor on board, Edwards appears to be the fall guy for an organization that is just now realizing that it's not equipped to run the 3-4. Perhaps some of that was Edwards' fault; perhaps he was shoehorned into something he knew would fail, and tried to fix it twice.
Wannstedt takes over a defense that, when you get right down to it, still lacks elite playmakers, particularly at the most important positions on the field. He has a strong reputation from previous defensive coordinator gigs, the last of which occurred far more than a decade ago (1999). He's drawn praise for switching schemes, but in the end, all of the team's personnel problems remain.
Our questions for you: is it fair to be skeptical of Wannstedt's ability to find a good defense within a group of players comprised largely of spare parts? Does Edwards get a fair shake with fans? And finally, does any part of the way this whole defensive transition has gone down make you feel icky?
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Grade Wannstead
the proof is in the pudding , if there is a upgrade then it will be obvious one way or the other . no way to grade before the season starts . after free agency and the draft we’ll at least have something to go on .
I agree
I won’t pass a grade until we see what he does. One man can make a difference. Houston was average on defense, even with all those studs. Enter Wilson and they go from average or slightly above average to elite. Same with SF. They had a good defense. With Harbaugh, they became elite. I am not expecting elite or even top 10 good, this year. What I am expecting is them to address their 2 biggest issues: defensive pass rush from DE and OLB spots. I believe they will. What he does with him is what I will grade him on.
As for Edwards, i would have fired him as soon as we hired the Stache, so, nope, don’t feel bad at all.
Isn’t that what he was before, with them? So essentially, it’s a demotion.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 31, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
And finally, does any part of the way this whole defensive transition has gone down make you feel icky?
Oh my goodness, yes. and youre right with what you said: it has little to do with the stache or edwards or 3-4 vs. 4-3. Its the lack of vision thats so worrisome. has there been any long term plan for the defense at all? have nix and gailey been shooting from the hip on every major decision since january 2010? or have they just been shooting from the hip in terms of whose going to be running the defense and what scheme it will be?
if they were gonna make this move it needed to happen a year ago when they hired Wannstedt in the first place. or maybe they shouldve built a better plan for the defense in january of 2010 before they got backed into a corner. how much big time talent was left of the board in april of 2010 when nix used 4 picks (moats, batten, troup, carrington) who are physically ideal 3-4 fits?
to me, the Wannstedt promotion in itself is not a big deal. what is a big deal, in my opinion, is what the Wannstedt promotion is an indication of. to me its an indication that nix and gailey see the team in terms of the day-by-day, year-by-year, and less in terms of the franchise on a whole. i hope im wrong, but yes. it makes be feel icky
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Jan 31, 2012 2:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
This isn’t just a sport, it’s a business. Every year, you need to evaluate what you’re doing, and if it isn’t working, figure out what would work better. Changing back to a 4-3 after two seasons doesn’t bother me. If they were changing schemes from game to game, that would be a problem.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 3:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Money sport
If Edwards was unable to stop the run I have no problem trying the 4-3 as it’s designed for this problem. The D can always switch back to the hybrid for N.E. games. Wannsted has a good reputation defensively so till he fails I’m all for him. GO BUFFALO
by ONEREALMAN on Jan 31, 2012 11:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yes
this icky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f-m-Fmd1lY
An appropriate example, I might add.
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
Sticky not Icky baby
To be honest our current D personelle suits a 4-3 better than a 3-4 in my opinion. So I’m probably getting “sticky” rather than “Icky” over this !
Granted I think the Bills handled it like sh!t in that the hired the Wand a year ago essentially insuring themselves against Edwards flopping – to me that stinks and they should have bitten the Bullet and cut ties a year ago rather than getting splinters up their @rses by suitting on the fence !
the only saving grace in my opinion is that they clearly drafted players last year who could play a 4-3 or 3-4 so last years draft is not a write off. Obviously the 2010 draft wasm ore focussed on a 3-4 which makes it a little bit more of a write off.
NB Side note – a bit surprised that Batten and Moats are not considered as RDE candidates in this post – they were college DEs and they are no lighter than Schobel was when he suceeded there !!!
In any case, this is a good move overall, but perhaps handled like poo from the Bills front office ?!!!?
The Buffalo Bills - Drafting big and nasty men since 2011.
I think that they have a good defensive nucleus with Dareus, Williams, Barnett, and Sheppard. Kelsay is adequate, but they will need to add another DE and OLB.
The big problem I had with Edwards was the lack of creativity. When you don’t have superstar pass rushers, you have to find ways to create pressure. Do stunts, twists, blitz from unexpected places. Unfortunately, they hardly did any of that. Most of their blitzes were straight up the middle, and everything got clogged up. They made it very easy for the offensive line to contain everybody, and then you have mismatches in coverage that can (and did) get exploited.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 2:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
I agree you have to mix it up and get creative if you lack the tools to get the job done. A if you have those tools you need to know how to use them. It seemed that Edwards was just running a vanilla defense and that got too predicable. Once that happens he didn’t adjust and teams ran the table on us. A great coordinator will find a way to win with what he has (see Buddy Ryan and the 46 d he helped to develope on Chicago) Edwards appeared too green to be a coordinator and as a result he had to go.
Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves...deliberately into paranoid situations.
by christopher.j on Jan 31, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Chicago
There is a huge difference in the talent buddy Ryan had to play with compared to the holes Buffalo still has. One good draft did not cure the ills
by ONEREALMAN on Jan 31, 2012 11:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
rec
player quality certainly improving & coaching lacked creativity.
"Will&Work2Win"coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Jan 31, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
I don't agree that Buffalo's defense is spare parts
Dareus, Williams, Byrd and Barnett are starters for most teams. Sheppard and Williams, and possibly Rogers and Carrington, are potential solid starters. That’s eight players or 11 starters that aren’t spare parts.
I still contend that Buffalo is an edge rusher or two away from being good on defense. If Buffalo signs Mario Williams, or even Cliff Avril, all of this talk about bad defense goes away.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 31, 2012 2:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If the Bills have so many
so many starters then why does/did their defense suck for two years in a row. They weren’t average. They were bottom fourth of the league bad. I like Barnett, as he is an upgrade over his predecessor, but the Packers won the SB without him last year and then let him go. He’s good but is he really a top 10 WLB? There is a lot of faith put on Sheppard this coming year. He was not great at all during his run. The Bills got run on all the time with him at ILB. Its not like he was a major difference maker. And Rogers and Carrington? They are potential starters on a 28th ranked defense. Not a good one. The defense has three good players, the first three you mentioned. After that, they are at best right now very average and a lot of spare parts.
by J09 on Jan 31, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Really?
so many starters then why does/did their defense suck for two years in a row
Dareus, Sheppard, Williams and Rogers are rookies. They had no chance to impact 2010, and rookies aren’t supposed to raise bad defenses to elite levels.
He’s good but is he really a top 10 WLB?
Not what I wrote. He could start for most teams. Not starting for a Super Bowl winner is less of an indictment on Barnett as it is a tribute to the Packers depth.
If you’re into judging rookies and 2nd year players, go right ahead. You’ll find that if you do that, the league is filled with failed rookies and second year players. Not everyone is Von Miller.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 31, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You have to judge everyone
even rookies and 2nd year players. One of the worst thing a franchise can do is over estimate their young talent. Everyone keeps bringing up all these rookies who could be good. They might be, but none of the rookies beat out anyone on the roster who is anything more than waiver wire fodder. If these rookies played and they made a bunch of impact plays (Marcel excluded), and the defense was average or getting better as the season and game experience wore on, that would be one thing. But they got progressively worse. They got lit up by Miami twice. Just cause a rookie gets on the field, that does not mean they are good. It could just mean they replaced a bad player.
so if you're correct Oakland shouldve gave up McFadden?
by RiddickBillsFan on Jan 31, 2012 10:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
in 2009 under perry fewell was decent williams schobel had good years byrd had a great year in 2010 the defence was horrible partly because of the offence not being able to move the ball and partly due to changing systems, and we lost our best defender in schobel, and no plan to replace him, this year, this past year when kyle williams went down we were in trouble, then we lost wilson and mcgee, having had so many injuries, the rookie class of 2011 should be ready to play a huge roll in 2012, if OBD adds 1 or 2 top FA pass rushers and a top WR they should be a force in 2012
That's a very big if.....
They need 2, not one pass rusher. And one receiver plus Stevie J
And bell or an equal player.
That’s 5 impact players needed for us to challenge next year.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
I might add that the packers have a horrible defense so their decision making on any defensive decision is suspect just as any the Bills make. Also any defense will be bad with no pass rush. You can only expect a lb to cover a RB for so long and even your best CB will get beat eventually. After a team established the pass game and a lead then they could just sit back and run.
I fully believe this defense is 1 very good and 1 average pass rusher away from being a top 10 defense. They have most of the pieces just lack experience. This team was by no means as bad as they looked late in the year.
Takeaways
The Bills defense were 18 giveaway/takeaways better in 2011 than 2010. Despite their better statistic from 2010 they gave up 9 more points in 2011 than 2010. We gave the ball away 9 less times in 2011, meaning the defense had to defend 9 less time in 2011 and still gave up more points. They were third to last in the league in points against. They took a major step backwards in 2011 on defense. Hopefully Wanny helps, but there is a significant talent hole.
We gave the ball away 9 less times in 2011, meaning the defense had to defend 9 less time in 2011 and still gave up more points.
But that’s assuming that the quality of offenses the Bills faced in 2010 was the same as the ones they faced in 2011.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
scapegoat
I don’t have strong feelings about Wannstedt one way or another. Like when Gailey was hired, I like his resume up until he went to college to become a mediocre college head coach. Like Gailey, the fear is that their time away from the pro game has him a step behind, mitigating the successful aspects of his resume due to the time that has elapsed. I don’t know how well Wannstedt translates to today’s game and I doubt anyone does.
Edwards was a weak coordinator in a terrible spot that demanded a strong one. He failed miserably due to a terrible roster, a GM and coach who were not on the same page, and a lack of ideas of his own to counter these handicaps. I suspect even a great coordinator would have failed with this team and certainly, Edwards was not great himself.
Yes. This whole transition appears to be going off about as poorly as even the most negative Bills’ supporters could have feared. I don’t know how anyone could look at this thing and describe it otherwise. I blame Nix and Gailey completely for the turmoil. All and all, the defense should be good by next year and if it’s not, I’d like to see some pink slips above George Edwards on the totum poll.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 31, 2012 2:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This statement is through your view
This whole transition appears to be going off about as poorly as even the most negative Bills’ supporters could have feared. I don’t know how anyone could look at this thing and describe it otherwise.
In your view, things have gone as badly as they could have, and you don’t see how it could be worse. Not in my view.
Under the Levy/Inner Circle regime, Buffalo missed on four of six first round draft picks, with only Lynch and Wood panning out. Nix is two for two, with Dareus showing signs of being an impact defender as a rookie, and Spiller making a major positive impact in the games he started.
That’s improvement.
Buffalo’s offense needed a road map, compass, and a Google Maps app to find the end zone for most of 2006-2009. Gailey’s teams haven’t struggled as bad.
Levy and Jauron couldn’t find or develop even a QB that could be a passable starter. Gailey recognized what he had with Fitzpatrick, and what he didn’t have with Edwards. It took two games, but at least he recognized it.
Buffalo’s offensive line opened the way for Jackson to be among the league leaders in rusher at the time of his injury. The same offensive line that the Inner Circle badly botched, and only at the end drafted competent players.
Things are better than they were, and getting better. It could be worse. Far worse.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 31, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I think Port was talking specifically about the defensive transition
from a 3-4 to a 4-3, not about the transition from the old regime to the new regime.
And, comparing first round pick hit rate probably isn’t an apples to apples comparison, considering Buddy Nix has had the #9 selection and #3 selection overall, while the four picks before that were #11, #28, #11, #12, #8, #26. Just something to consider.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Jan 31, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
just because jauron had higher picks is not an excuse,
in 2006 donte whitner or Haloti Ngata or jay cutler and john mccargo or nick mangold
in 2007 Marshawn Lynch or derrelle revis 2 picks later and Paul Posluszny or sidney rice
in 2008 Leodis McKelvin or joe flacco and james hardy or desean jackson
in 2009 aaron maybin or brian orakpo 2 picks later, wood and byrd were great picks
in 2010 cj spiller or Jason Pierre-Paulé or Maurkice Pouncey and Torll Troup or Gronkowski
or Carlos Dunlap and Alex Carrington or jimmy graham
2011 first draft that i am completely happy with, lets hope they do as well in 2012
I’m not sure how scrapping the defensive scheme and firing the defensive coordinator can be construed in anyway other than a worst case scenario for the defense after two years. Seriously, two years ago, what would have been the worst case scenario for the defense if not this one?
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 31, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Buffalo continuing to draft small, underpowered players that couldn’t stack up to the run games of the Jets and Dolphins, and the top draft choices not panning out.
That’s way worse than a scheme change.
Defense is about players. Last I checked, Dareus, Williams, Troup, Carrington, Moats, Batten, Rogers, Searcy, and Sheppard were all still on the roster.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 31, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
REc'd
DJ. I don’t understand why so many are so negative. This team has done a lot right in the 2 years under the Chix regime. They are far from perfect, but, compared to other regimes in the last 12 years, this is our super bowl FO.
This defense is 2 starters and health away from being a good defense. If you read my post, the defense was terrible. If you take out the KC, Wash, and Denver games and the defense gave up a score more then 46% of the drives. Injuries to key guys crippled them. Now, they will be healthy and I believe the FO will do all they can do to put a winning product on the field next year.
I don't know if I'd go that far
I’m not as optimistic as you’d think. I’m not ready to write of Gailey and Nix, nor do I think they’ve done a terrible job. But I don’t think Fitzpatrick is a franchise QB either, so I guess that places me middle of the road? I’d like to think I’m a realist, but that’s up for debate.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
the reality
will manifest itself in wins/losses. That will be (is) the only true barometer of success( in the NFL).
If they pull a 49er turn around, then the optimists will gloat(and we all cheer). If they continue down the same road with a bizarre draft and another extensive losing streak next season, then, it’s the pessimists who will have their day.
We can postulate qualitatively, all we want, on both sides. The quantifiable data is the record. Al Davis had it right…just win baby.
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
by fansince60 on Jan 31, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We all think we’re realists. Those of you who buy this regime don’t have that market cornered.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 31, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
is there some "unrealistic" content in his sig?
Is there more than one C.J. Spiller? If there is- is the “other” CJ Spiller of any relevance?
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
Well said
There seem to be a few people who bash every single move that is made by Nix or Gailey. I am of the opinion that we are indeed on the right path. The pre-Nix era is littered with failed draft picks, bad free agent acquisitions, and a roster full of undersized players who frequently got steamrolled by all by the weakest of the bottom feeders. Maybe Dick Jauron squeezed some 7-9 records out of the roster, but we never beat any playoff-caliber teams, and there were never any future stars to build around. I think that Nix has been able to add some good, young talent, and Gailey has turned a pop-gun offense that treated the opposition’s goal line like a force field into a unit that is capable of putting up big points.
Just because we haven’t made the playoffs in two years under Nix and Gailey, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t moving the team forward. They are not content with treading water in the sea of mediocrity, and they are building a dynasty.
After the upcoming free agency and draft, I would like to see one of the naysayers go through the starting roster from 2009 and demonstrate how that was a superior team to what we will have next season.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 4:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Building a dynasty?
I dont see how two straight losing seasons, each with a losing streak of at least 7 games is building a dynasty. Im sorry, I just cannot picture any scenario where the Bills are considered a dynasty with Fitz as a QB. If you look at the most successful teams year in and year out, they are the ones with a franchise qb. All good ‘dynasties’ have had a franchise QB.
by MarkyMarkO on Jan 31, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I never said that Fitzpatrick would be the QB of that dynasty. There are at least 21 other pieces that make up that puzzle, and they are doing a good job of filling those spots, not just finding stop-gap free agents or drafting crap. They will almost certainly need to draft the QB of the future soon. Odds are not good this year unless Tannehill or Foles are still available in a later round, maybe Case Keenum in a middle round. Next year is looking like there will be many good QB prospects.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 4:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not one person in the entire universe......
…….. would have guessed that an Alex Smith 49er team will make it and almost win the NFC Title game.
They sucked for years and accumulated a ton of high picks.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 31, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I am missing your point. I do not think the 49ers are the beginning of a dynasty because they do not have a franchise QB. If they had a franchise QB, they win that game and are probably the favorites in the SB. The bills would have to suck for a couple more seasons to approach the talent that the 49ers have.
The 49ers are at the start of a dynasty
With or without Smith. They are easily the class of that division. Why are so many so critical of this organization? In 2 years, they have done a lot of good. Some bad, but, more good then bad. There is clearly a better product on the field then before they got here.
Furthermore, Ralph said he made an error not having a football guy as his GM. He said he wouldn’t do that again. What more can you do? What more can you ask him to do? I don’t get it. Chix felt that Merriman would be okay. They were wrong. It is so easy in hindsight to say what will or won’t work. They don’t have that ability.
Hey, I have an open challenge to those who really think they are smarter/better/superior to the bills FO. On here, start to run your own team. Tell us what you would do for the draft and follow them and see how hard it really is to predict what a person will do years from now. Their jobs are very difficult. At least, I respect them for seeing mistakes and not being shy about dealing with them. They have dealt with Trent Edwards, Cornell Green, and George Edwards. Instead of forcing a square peg (3-4 system) into a round hole (4-3 players), they have decided to do the smart thing and go with the round peg for the round hole. I don’t see why this is such a big deal. They admitted it wasn’t working. They couldn’t overcome the lack of free agent talent for those 2 LB spots. Instead of working with lesser talent, they chose to work with the strength of the team. This team is already better because they are running a scheme that better suits it on defense. If the D can stop people 70% of the time, we are in business next year. This year, they were terrible giving up a score almost 39% of the time, and if you take out those 3 decent games, they gave up a score on 1 of every 2 possessions (almost 47%).
I do not necessarily agree with you that the product is clearly better now. The defense has gotten worse under this regime even though they have focused a majority of their drafts on defense. Now, they are going to start all over again. The offense is considerably better, but no where near spectacular. Their overall record is 10-22. You are what your record says you are and our record under this regime is not very good. I am not saying run them out of town and scrap it. In my opinion, I do not see a lot of progress after two years. They definitely deserve another year or two, but if the team regresses and does not show signs of improvement, Chix may need to go
How do they have to start over?
They already have the players. This regime is on year 3. It takes a solid 3 years of good drafting to get guys in. This defense has a decent foundation. All they are doing is lining up in different spots. If they play more of an attacking 4-3, then that is easier on them then a read and react or bend but don’t break defense.
All good ‘dynasties’ have had a franchise QB.
Just for fun I looked up the stats of a QB who I watched a lot as a kid, Terry Bradshaw.
CAREER
Comp %…51.9
TD…212
INT…210
Sure, sure, that was a different era. Still, I feel that teams need the right QB for them. They come in all different shapes and styles. Fitz has certain tools that fit this team: toughness, pre-snap diagnosis, ability to throw into tight windows and the guts to do so. He started all 16 games for us for this first time in many years. That’s a big plus in my book. The word dynasty is silly to use right now, but I do think we will see continued improvement next season with the Beard at the helm.
mobile rec
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
by billsoferie on Jan 31, 2012 4:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Scapegoat implies that Edwards was unjustly fired; that he had no culpability in the performance of his defense
I think most on this board would have been upset if he was still here regardless of what else happened with the scheme and personnel.
Most reasonable fans would acknowledge that he didn’t have all the tools he needed to field a good defense, but he still failed to get the most out of what he had. This team has lacked elite players on defense for many years now, but these last two years saw historic worst’s in a few categories.
Giving up 200 yards rushing for so many games only to hear players talk about missing "fits"…still, is unacceptable. Perry Fewell didn’t have elite talent to work with here, but still installed his "sugar rush" that worked pretty well at creating confusion on the offense. Edwards never showed that creativity, he seemed to believe the players would simply "get it" after awhile.
He is not solely responsible for the failures of the defense, but he certainly had a large part in it.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
He is not solely responsible for the failures of the defense, but he certainly had a large part in it.
This is my opinion, also. If he had run 4-3 previously, he should have been able to tell them they should have been running a 4-3. Either he took a job over his head, or Nix didn’t deliver on getting him the necessary personnel, or both.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
by thefourwinds on Feb 1, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Grade Wannstead
Well hasn’t he on the staff last year helping the defense. Was he not at all the practices and meetings to. So where was his input then. Did he not know that the 3-4 was doomed because of lack of skill by Bills players. Me thinks he was waiting for Edwards to get fired and maybe waiting for Galley to get fired to to become head coach. I expect the D to be better just because. But still I don’t see them going anywhere until they can beat their Division Rivals. At present they can’t and don’t seem to be going in that direction.
Maybe we should grade the Owner and GM.
Buddys 2011 draft an A+++++++++
2010 draft was one of the worst in franchise history, 2011 6 out of 9 were starters by seasons end and jasper will atleast be a back up gaurd in 2012 and should be anchoring at RG for years to come, but if they dont sign at least 1 of the top 3 DE and atleast 1 of the top 3 WR i will give him and Ralph an F!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2010 draft
The reason why the 2010 draft was a bust was because buddy nix stepped in as general manager and had no time to rebuild his scouting team so he stuck with Tom Modrak and Modrak’s old scouters for another year (they suck aHole!) .. After that season Nix cleaned up the scouting department which resulted with a very good 2011 draft.
by Mk209 on Jan 31, 2012 10:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
all he has to do...
is not play Spencer Johnson at DE/OLB, and he gets a better grade than Edwards.
@sawyervanhorn
by Sawyer in Boston on Jan 31, 2012 3:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Brian, are you growing tired of the current regime? Or are you simply utilizing journalism tools in baiting us all to participate in an organized set of topics?
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 31, 2012 3:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
rec & smoke break
and he did a pretty good job too
"Will&Work2Win"coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Jan 31, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
As long as Williams is healthy next season
this defense will be better. If he’s not, it will be another long season for Buffalos defenders.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
if OBD had drafted brian orakpo instead of maybin they never would have changed to the 34, they would have had shobel williams and orakpo as 3 of the front 4
they would have had shobel williams and orakpo as 3 of the front 4
2012?
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Orakpo was definitely the better option. He had better size and the “body of work” in college to back it up. Maybin was a part-year wonder and was way too small to be drafted as a 4-3 DE.
by SiriusRed on Jan 31, 2012 4:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wanny Wah Wah
The Stache is back where he belongs as a DC… Wanny will get this defense back in shape whether the Bills use a 4-3 or a 3-4. He is the right man for the job and I can’t wait to see the Bills play an aggressive attacking style of defense. We all know the Bills still need playmakers but Wanny will get the utmost out of every defensive player that makes the squad…
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Football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority.
Vince Lombardi
by Goose22 on Jan 31, 2012 4:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
That's a bold statement.
but Wanny will get the utmost out of every defensive player that makes the squad…
I’ll believe it when I see it, but I hope your right.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Feb 1, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Understand your feelings completely… If the Bills can land at least one outstanding pass rusher (doesn’t matter if it is a DE or a LB) the whole defense will improve by leaps and bounds… Then they need to fill in the blanks around the pass rush the G-men style of building a defense.
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Football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority.
Vince Lombardi
What's all the fuss about
I think we’re getting caught up in semantics here. The bottom line is that whether a 3-4 or 4-3 D was chosen two years ago, the entire D had to be rebuilt from the ground up due to Jauron’s weak sis D. This weak sis D also led to the fact that only marginal D-coordinator candidates were interested in the job. Fast forward two years and our front 7 has better personnel and a better D-coordinator. Given the info available right now, a 4-3 makes the most sense. I don’t have a problem with the progress that has been made from a really bad situation and I think we’re a couple pieces away from having a tough, physical defense that allows us to be a contender in the AFC east!
by Barman23 on Jan 31, 2012 4:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
If we as Bills fans keep thinking “what if” we will get stuck in the past and won’t be able to leave so all the Orakpo and Dick Jauron crap is totally irrelevant. If we can move past that then we can evaluate this team a whole lot better.
you have to learn from history or you are bound to repeat it, i hope, think buddy has because the , 2010 draft was a disaster moats and batten were probably wasted picks troupe and carrington might be as well all 4 best fit a 34 defence easley will show if he was a waste, CJ is the only bright spot of the draft he will be a difference maker similar to darren sproules our offence should be a clone of the Saints having said that i cannot find any flaw in the 2011 draft,
3rd year
Given the amount of time Nix had to clean house and get new scouters I would say this draft would be his best draft by far as talent … I would disregard his first years draft because he still had Modrak’s old scouting team which suck aHole
by Mk209 on Jan 31, 2012 10:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Billl's D
Stache should get same time Edwards was given to achieve. 3-4 or 4-3 thought it didn’t matter? Icky no, typical is more like like. Two steps back, half step forward, OBD’s mantra:)
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
Perspective
Edwards was in a tough spot having his best player go down, and only modest help all around. Lots of young players with limited experience and playmaking ability. But he didn’t get the team to play well except in spots. It’s still the NFL. No Excuses.
Wannstedt will have these guys better prepared to play despite limited talent, simply by virtue of his experience. But that won’t be all of it. Youngers players got to play last year. They got to learn. The draft will bulk up the DEF once again, so there is some hope that the improved coaching and talent level will produce better results. Irrespective of the 3-4, 4-3 discussion.
Go big or go home.
A little off topic...
But does anybody else take the switch to a base 43 to mean, among other things (Wannstedts possible refusal to take the job as a 34 team, dareus/williams/carrington flourishing under a 43 possibly improving the pass rush overnight, williams really not being a NT, etc…), the Bills might not choose to address the front seven, pass rush in the first round? Possibly looking at CB or WR if Kirkpatrick or Floyd are there? Or maybe even QB or LT, though a long shot?
I just dont buy the reasoning that 34 is harder to find personnel for. Although true, the only glaring need the team had was an outside lb and there are plenty of solid choices, intriguing choices, and interesting prospect-part timers this year to fill that void. To be honest, the move to the 43 makes me excited if only to look at improving the offense with the teams first pick. The defense might be better just by making the switch.
Im especially interested in Carrington possibly manning the open DE spot.
low odds on a CB
I think that Kirkpatrick’s recent arrest for marijuana possession will knock him completely off the Bills’ radar. Morris Claiborne will probably go in the top nine, and the next best CB prospects are small guys.
by SiriusRed on Feb 1, 2012 6:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A Few Related Points To Consider
For those who are inclined to say that CHIX had no vision for the team when they took over because they are switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defensive scheme after 2 years, let me remind you of how so many Bills fans, disgusted by Jauron’s lightweight Tampa 2 scheme, were clamoring for a return to the 3-4 defense as a panacea to cure all of the Bills’ defensive woes. Yes, Perry Fewell’s defense performed better once he took over as head coach, but how many Bills’ fans wanted him retained as Head Coach on that basis vs those who wanted a thorough house-cleaning at OBD?
Not only can hindsight be 20-20, but memories can also be very selective. And, one should be careful about what one wishes for because you just might get it.
And, while they might not have seen (or yet see) it that way, Ralph Wilson did, to a certain extent, give us Bills fans what so many wanted: a GM who had helped to build a playoff caliber 3-4 defense and one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL in San Diego, and, after being turned down by two of the biggest name head coaches on the market, one of the most creative offensive coaches available—one with a winning record as a NFL head coach. What he didn’t give them, unfortunately, was a new scouting department until this past year or the ability to hire the very best in assistant coaches.
I believe Buddy Nix when he said that he was committed to building a 3-4 defense in Buffalo. That was his strength. And, I think he set about to do that, knowing that he would have to replace a great many of the under-sized “Tampa 2” personnel on the roster.
No matter how you cut it, it was always going to take 2-3 years to replace those under-sized players with heavier ones who could play in a 3-4 defense. They knew and said that they couldn’t get it done all at once—which was why they hired George Edwards, who was supposed to be able to coach both the 3-4 and a 4-3 scheme. They grabbed the best players they could to fit the scheme, including a number who played in a 4-3 in college or might be better fits in a 4-3. Additionally, as Polian and Nix had successfully done in the past with the Bills and in San Diego, Nix brought in a number of small-school players as part of this transition.
Moats, Batten and Carrington all primarily played DE in what were 4-3 base schemes in college. While each was expected to take some time to transition to his projected place in a 3-4 scheme, they were all considered talented enough to play in either scheme, although Carrington was seen as being better able to fit as a 3-4 DE eventually and the other two were more risky picks (which was why they fell so far in the draft).
Of all of the players that Nix drafted on defense, only Troup can be said to be primarily a 3-4 player. However, Troup did play some 4-3 in college. Because of his weight and lack of conditioning, though, Troup was substituted for on many passing downs when his college team did play four defensive linemen. Now, that doesn’t mean that he can’t play in certain 4-3 packages—it just means that his use will be limited to those packages. And, with Dareus (who also played some DE in pass-rushing situations at Alabama) and Kyle Williams as the starting DTs, Troup can help give the Bills a solid DT rotation without having to play in situations that he is not suited for.
As far as switching to a 4-3 after only 2 years is concerned, it must be remembered that the Bills were late in switching to a “Tampa 2” defense and suffered because opposing offensive coaches had figured out how to defeat it. And, they were late in switching to a 3-4 defense. While not exactly ahead of the curve in switching to a 4-3 scheme now, for once they are not way behind the curve. Whether because of the presence of Wannstedt or not, CHIX have recognized that their preferred 3-4 scheme could be exploited by the better offensive coaches in the NFL at this point and that the rest of the league would soon catch up to that. So, they have made a move to try to avoid that.
Will it work? Time will tell. But, give them credit for seeing the coming trend and being willing to abandon their preferred course of action in an effort not to have their team left behind. It’s a big gamble that they are taking. If they are right in making this move now, it will help the Bills move forward. If they are wrong, in two years they will be gone.
It is important to remember that the Bills are just entering Year Three of what was always going to be at least a four year transition. The Bills still don’t have enough “difference makers” on their roster to challenge for a title. But, they have more than they did when CHIX arrived.
People can argue that Fitzpatrick isn’t the franchise-type QB needed to compete with the very best teams (and I would agree), but the offense is markedly better despite injuries that killed the Bills’ offense, starting with the losses of Easley and Donald Jones, which left the Bills unable to stretch defenses and put greater pressure on Fitz, the RBs and offensive line—which suffered their own key injuries. And the defense is markedly bigger, even if it still lacks a couple of “game-changers”.
More than a few people here have complained about Nix’s signing of Shawne Merriman and some have pointed to it as a sign that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. I would argue that it was a calculated risk. The Bills lack game-changing play-makers. Very few game-changers make it to the open market and when they do, they cost a fortune to sign and can virtually pick their landing place-usually with a winner or somewhere very attractive. It was going to be virtually impossible for Nix to attract a top-flight play-maker to Buffalo at the beginning of this rebuilding process.
So, while it had been a few years since he had played much and he was an injury-risk, Nix took a gamble on getting a true play-maker when he had a chance to get Merriman. Whether he ever gets back to his old form or not, Merriman, in the little time that he has played for the Bills, has showed what a “game-changer” is supposed to look like and what the Bills lack. Moreover, he was instrumental in recruiting both Barnett and Morrison to the Bills last offseason. If Merriman only gives the Bills one good season, he will still be worth the gamble that Nix took on him—if only because his presence will help give the Bills a credibility on defense that they have lacked—and were likely to lack—during this transition (especially since Schobel decided to leave), whether deserved or not.
Finally, it should be remembered that passing on Orakpo for Maybin and drafting Whitner instead of Ngata were not things that Buddy Nix did or should be held accountable for.
Moreover, I would like to point out that Aaron Maybin ended up leading the Jets in sacks as a pass-rushing OLB after being cut by the Bills. The fact that a guy who thoroughly earned his reputation as a “bust” in Buffalo could suddenly turn his career around upon arriving in New York/New Jersey says one or both of two things: 1.) Aaron Maybin, despite everything he may have said to the contrary, NEVER wanted to play for the Bills and was always looking to play somewhere else that he thought was more attractive (I actually think he wanted to play in Baltimore with Ray Lewis, but they didn’t want him); and/or, 2.) the Jets have better position coaches than the Bills who were able to teach Maybin (almost overnight) how to better get to the passer. While I think that it might be a combination of both things, after watching Maybin with the Jets, I definitely believe that Maybin, like OJ’s old friend Al Cowlings, “played his way out of” Buffalo and never was fully committed to playing for the Bills. It’s not the first time it has happened, nor is it likely to be the last—but it is something that is very hard for a scout or GM to be able to pick up on in meeting with a prospect before the draft (when players and agents are almost always going to say what they know a GM will want to hear).
Those who do not learn fromt eh past are doomed to repeat it.
by LifetimeBillsFan on Feb 1, 2012 3:56 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
well said
One thing I would say about Maybin and the Jets is that they aren’t using him as anything other than a designated pass rusher on obvious passing downs, and their pass rush and blitzes were far more creative than anything Edwards was doing. Maybin is still a liability in the running game because of his size, and he isn’t good in coverage. For the Bills to use him as a role player, he would still be seen as a bust because of what we were paying him. The Jets were able to sign him for almost nothing, so using him as a role player is no problem.
by SiriusRed on Feb 1, 2012 6:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
One thing about the time at which Maybin was drafted, the quick first step was all the rage that year. I remember reading a popular article that broke down all the different attributes of pass rushing, and the conclusion was that first step was the most important factor. Maybin had at least that.
As for why Maybin was successful in NYJ. Could it be that they have an overall better defense, and he was asked to do just one thing? Gailey and/ or Nix should address that question, though. How do we cut a 22-year old first rounder(no compensation), only to see him land with a divisional rival?
Excellent breakdown...
The Tampa 2 defense could succeed but you need a handful of all-pros to pull it off… The Bucs were outstanding with Sapp, Rice, Brooks, Lynch and Quarles leading the defense…
Football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority.
Vince Lombardi
Very well stated rec'd
You should post this as a stand alone. It was very well written and true. People should see this franchise for what it is: Going on year 3. The past doesn’t matter b/c Nix and Co weren’t here. All that he and Ralph can be held accountable for is what has happened the past 2 years. DJ’s defense (Tampa 2) was terrible. It left us in terrible shape.
One thing that you didn’t say is when the regime got here, they probably felt that Maybin would be ideal as an OLB and he wasn’t. You can’t judge how a guy will turn out. The FO doesn’t have the luxury of hindsight.
George Wilson.....
Is not getting enough love this offseason.
He is a great player, a great asset.
Shopping list: by drafts end we should have two new starting quality receivers ( Stevie would be one) one new left tackle ( bell would be one) Two new defensive ends both easily good enough to send Kelsay to the bench. And a solid prospect to compete at SOLB. Add Scott, Chandler and sprinkle with some late round gems and we are ready to go in 2012.
Simple enough, clear enough…..
Let’s check back the first Monday post draft and go over the listQ
PodunkO - The great post ender!
Is not getting enough love this offseason.
He is a great player, a great asset.
I like Wilson, but I wouldn’t call him great. He’s good, but he seemed to me like he was wearing down last season towards the end.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."

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