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State Of The Buffalo Bills Roster: Running Back

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Buffalo Rumblings is in the process of breaking down the Buffalo Bills' roster position by position. Installments you may have missed: QB.

In two years as the Buffalo Bills' head coach, Chan Gailey has proven that his offense doesn't cater well to multiple running backs. That presents a problem for the team moving forward, considering they have two worthy runners on their roster.

That problem is complicated by the fact that the team's top runner, Fred Jackson, will be 31 next month and is currently angling for a well-deserved pay raise. The Bills have two legitimate No. 1 running backs on their roster - one of which may be unhappy if he doesn't get a new deal - and a head coach that has yet to figure out how to use two such players effectively in his system.

The Bills have more pressing issues across their roster, to be sure, but this particular issue may soon fall out of the "nice problem to have" category.

Star-divide

FRED JACKSON
Age:
30 (31 in February 2012)
Contract: UFA in 2013. Has one year remaining (at $1.83M) on a four-year deal signed in May of 2009.

Time away and the play of his understudy has diluted just how awesome Jackson was in 2011, so here's a refresher: when he landed on IR, Jackson was the NFL's leading rusher and was in contention to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage. In nine full games this season, Jackson averaged 5.6 yards per carry and 145 total yards per game, and also set a career high with six rushing touchdowns. In a world without quarterbacks, Jackson was a legitimate MVP candidate.

There's no question that Jackson, even as he's surpassed the age of 30, has out-performed the meager four-year deal he signed as a part-timer prior to the 2009 season. He has repeatedly expressed his faith that GM Buddy Nix will get him a new deal. There's also no question that a healthy Jackson remains the team's top tailback; he does everything exceedingly well, and Gailey trusts him with on-field responsibilities like no other player on the roster save the quarterback.

C.J. SPILLER
Age:
24 (25 in August 2012)
Contract: UFA in 2015. Due $3.9M in base salary over next three years; $12M in incentives available in 2014.

A little-used enigma for much of his first two professional seasons, Spiller finally got an opportunity to shine when Jackson was injured - and shine he did. In the final six games of the season as the Bills' No. 1 tailback, Spiller averaged 105 scrimmage yards and 5.2 yards per carry, scored five total touchdowns, and displayed the type of game-breaking ability that made him such a coveted commodity coming out of Clemson. He's still inconsistent in setting up blockers and drops more passes than he should, but his end-of-season surge has to have given him a huge confidence boost, and he's earned a much bigger workload than simply being a change of pace to Jackson.

TASHARD CHOICE
Age:
27 (28 in November 2012)
Contract: UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT

Choice was added to the roster off waivers from the Washington Redskins when Jackson went down for the season. He immediately became a contributor (as well as a nuisance to Bills fans eager for more Spiller touches), aided by his connection with Gailey, who coached him at Georgia Tech. Choice was not great in his short stint with the Bills, but he was effective in keeping Spiller fresh, and he knows the offense. There's a chance that Gailey will want him back, but Choice may not be eager to re-join such a crowded backfield.

JOHNNY WHITE
Age:
23 (24 in February 2012)
Contract: UFA in 2015. Financial details of rookie four-year deal unknown.

A fifth-round pick in 2011 out of North Carolina, White was added to the roster more for the value he provided as a specialist than as a pure running back. Sure enough, White touched the ball just 13 times in his rookie season, but certainly looked the part as a coverage man on kicks and punts. The team clearly was not comfortable giving White more of a running workload when Jackson went down, however, which does not speak well to his prospects of getting more involved offensively moving forward.

Bruce Hall is on the roster, as well; he landed on IR after spending part of the pre-season with the team. He is an exclusive rights free agent, and very likely does not figure into the team's plans at the position. Don't expect him back.

POSITIONAL OUTLOOK: The Bills have two very good running backs, and it's on Gailey to figure out how to milk production out of both of them simultaneously. It's also on Gailey to figure out how to effectively use both not just as runners, but as receivers. This position is one where the Bills are very talented and more than sufficiently deep, but if Gailey's offense can only use one back at a time, does that really matter?

FREE AGENCY: Choice is the name to watch here. Gailey is very familiar with Choice and spoke highly of him as Spiller's change-of-pace back at the close of the season - and it's hard to imagine Choice getting much play on the open market. He'd be a capable third back, but if the Bills can't use two, why do they need three? White was drafted specifically to get special teams value out of the little-used third running back slot, and if that's the plan once Jackson's healthy, Choice may not get a second look despite his ties to the head coach.

2012 NFL DRAFT: I went back and looked at how often the Bills draft running backs, then stopped counting upon discovering that the team has drafted a running back in 14 of the past 17 seasons - a stretch that includes four first-round picks. While it's incredibly difficult to imagine the team spending an early-round pick on a runner this year, it shouldn't surprise anyone if they take a runner somewhere - particularly if Choice isn't re-signed and they're looking to give White some competition in the third slot.

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There’s a chance that Gailey will want him back, but Choice may not be eager to re-join such a crowded backfield.

Good chance he does opt to test FA to go to a team where he will have a shot at the #1 or #2 spot.

.

When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.

by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 4, 2012 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

good post

but i think we will see some moves soon if fred is not paid, and he won’t be paid, so a trade is a possibility

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 11:54 AM EST reply actions  

Fred Jackson will not be traded. Or, put more precisely: I am 100% certain that of the collective dozens of people currently employed in the front office at OBD, not a single brain cell has been wasted contemplating trading Fred Jackson.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I am considerably less convinced then you are. Also, given the amount of money that Spiller is being paid, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ralph pushes Nix and Gailey to make Spiller #1. But, if the order to pawn off Jackson comes from Ralph, then you are still correct that no brain cells were wasted.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 12:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I’m not trying to convince anyone anything. I’m just telling you what I know. :)

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Nix has said numerous times that money is not an issue with any player

I repeat what Brian said, although I have no knowledge of any talks between anyone in OBD, but the thought of trading Fred Jackson has never come up

by Winnie33 on Jan 4, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Money may not be an issue to Nix, but it always is to Ralph. It’s the reason why we had Rob Johnson instead of Doug Flutie, or Trent Edwards instead of JP Losman (who lost bonuses thanks to lost playing time). As long as Ralph is still signing the paychecks, anything is possible.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

There is some truth to your comment. At least that’s the way the outside perceives things at OBD. If it’s not the truth, then Ralph needs to make sure we start believing something different.

"Go check on the ribs!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 4, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

you mean Ralph

That just paid Fitz, Williams, kelsay, Pears, Florance, Wilson.

Harooo

by Robot Nixon on Jan 4, 2012 1:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Ralph will give money to a player at one position. (Sometimes we question the player he gives the money to, but that’s a different discussion.) What he doesn’t seem to like is giving money to two players at the same position. That’s where we’ve seen some crazy personnel moves.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Wouldn't a Jackson trade make a lot of sense?

First, we are deep and can afford to.
Second, Fred has value. Normally we don’t think trade until the value has diminished too far(Lee)
Third, we have needs. Many needs.
Fourth, with Jackson gone the problem with retaining Choice seems to go away.

I see way too many pluses to ignore this opportunity.

I prayed for patience and I'm STILL waiting for an answer

by Storeybox on Jan 4, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

No. Under no circumstance does trading your best player make any sense.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Rebuilding team and a 30+ best player may change the rules about that.

I prayed for patience and I'm STILL waiting for an answer

by Storeybox on Jan 4, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

A team is only re-building if they make a change at the top. The Bills are building. You don’t build by moving your best player. Period.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I love watching Freddy play for us. He is awesome. OJ was awesome too. Too bad the Bills didn’t win with OJ and they aren’t winning with Freddy. Knowing that we are still more than adequate without Fred, thanks to CJ’s performance, I would welcome the chance to improve a weakness in another area. I want a winning team. I don’t want to settle for the best running back. Ask Detroit fans if the winning team is better. They’ve had amazing backs before.

I prayed for patience and I'm STILL waiting for an answer

by Storeybox on Jan 4, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s a perfectly reasonable way to look at things, but I promise you that’s not how the team is approaching it.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Cool, didn’t mean to argue your knowledge, just wanted to point out a different way of thinking. I would rather be rooting for a playoff team than arguing about how good any of our one players are.

I prayed for patience and I'm STILL waiting for an answer

by Storeybox on Jan 4, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

No worries. Argue all you like! This is exemplary on-blog arguing; you never once called me an idiot or told me to go root for another team! :)

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Moving Fred for some picks or even a younger player would be a great move for OBD. There’s no need to have 2 starters at a position like HB, especially because the bills have so many other missing pieces. I am pulling for the Bills to pull the trigger on a trade, but only for the right price.

by gspec on Jan 4, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

And what happens when they make that trade and Spiller gets nicked up for a few games next year (or knowing our luck, the whole year)?

Rolling with Choice and/or Johnny White seems like a great idea. Really.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman

by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 5, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

You can if you think you have somebody just as good and considerably younger. Throw in “and being paid more money” and you’d have Ralph himself calling up other GMs.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

specifically for Brian

Your posts are usually spot-on, and you obviously have more access and insight behind the scenes than I or anybody else here does. I understand wanting to keep Fred Jackson around. As you said, he was putting up MVP numbers until he got hurt. But he will be 31 next season, and if this team is as many pieces away from being a true playoff contender (and probably several more years away from being a Super Bowl contender) as I think we are, then he will no longer be part of the team by the time we have assembled enough talent around him. Spiller, on the other hand, should be in his prime.

I’m not necessarily saying it will happen that he gets traded, but I can’t see how Nix could be 100% against trading him. If I was the GM, I would be ready to entertain offers.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Note that I never said they were against it; just that they’re not considering it.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I would at least call around to other teams that are desperate for a running back to gauge interest. Maybe it’s just me, but I get the feeling that we will end up with an underpaid, disgruntled running back who will retire in two years, and we will be left with nothing but hard feelings. Meanwhile, we will have an overpaid and underutilized backup.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

what if

what if fred realizes that he won’t be paid, that he will lose some carries…maybe he will ask for a trade to be the number 1 RB in another team or if he thinks that they don’t have faith in him anymore

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s a possibility, but it has nothing to do with the way the team is thinking right now.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

so

you think that fred will receive his extension ?? i know one thing, one of our Rb won’t like whatever will happen, and if one is too angry or bitter,it won’t help the locker room

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that the Bills will seriously look at it, yes.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

and they have a lot of others things to look at. headaches come and not from new year’s drinks

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Regardless of what Nix and Wilson think, if Gailey doesn’t figure out a way to get the #2 back more touches, we will have a revolt on our hands by midseason. Right now, we have an underpaid workhorse and an overpaid bench warmer with talent going to waste. Something has to give.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Rebuilding team and a 30+ best player may change the rules about that.

Jared Allen just collected 22 sacks last season. He will be 30 this April.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jaredallen/2505940/profile

Da'Jon McKnight - WR (Minnesota) - 6'3'' 211Lbs. (5th Round)

1st Round Targets: Courtney Upshaw 3-4 OLB, Alshon Jeffery WR, David DeCastro OG, Justin Blackmon WR, Ryan Tannehill QB, Sam Montgomery 3-4 OLB
2nd Round Targets: Jared Crick (3-4DE & 4-3LDE), Melvin Ingram 3-4OLB, Kirk Cousins QB

by NordicBillsfan on Jan 4, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, and how old will he be when the Vikings are good again? I think that was the point he is trying to make. Now, would I trade Fred? Absolutely not…unless Chan can’t figure out how to use them both in which case….

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 7:42 AM EST up reply actions  

A absolutely agree, but I could see them doing it for the following reasons:

Freddy is very unhappy and might skip offseason “stuff”
They drafted White
The (by accident almost) got Choice (a player Gailey is familiar with)
They saw Spiller is capable and might be the real deal.

I don’t think they should, but I have a very foreboding feeling when I think of Jackson. Sometimes I think Nix and Gailey outsmart themselves sometimes and could see them doing it again at a few positions this offseason (but I’ll wait for those installments to get into that)

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

it absolutely would not make sense

Because we’re not going to get much value for a 31-yo RB with 1 year left on his contract. We’re going to get a 3rd or 4th round pick at best. Would you give up your best player for that?

by paythemannow on Jan 4, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I would expect Fred to fetch better than that. A running back that would have been considered MVP material performing at that level on a team as bad as ours.

I prayed for patience and I'm STILL waiting for an answer

by Storeybox on Jan 4, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If we got a 4th round pick for Lee Evans, I would have to think we could do better for Jackson.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Lee Evans was 29 when he was traded

and still had a few years left on his contract. Ravens figured if it works out they might get another 4-5 productive years out of Evans, and worst case they cut him loose and save the $ and all they gave up was a 4th rounder.

Why would you give up anything more than a 3rd round pick for a 31 year old RB with only 1 year left on his contract? If he outperforms and you’d be in the same situation that Buffalo’s in (do I give a 31/32yo a new big $ contract or do I just let him walk after a year and kiss my 3rd rounder goodbye)

by paythemannow on Jan 4, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would you give up a first round pick plus another conditional pick which would be either a first or second rounder for a 31-year-old QB who hasn’t performed anywhere near MVP levels for years (if at all)? That’s precisely what the Raiders did.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 2:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

the bungles were very clever on that one

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

No, the Raiders badly overpaid. But that’s what can happen when a team suffers a critical injury at that position or feels like they are only one piece away from reaching the playoffs.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 3:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

they’re not one piece away from the playoffs,and now they won’t have a first rounder in april.the bungles are in the playoffs and richer for april

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

They were one piece away at the time. Carson Palmer just didn’t turn out to be the piece they needed, and there weren’t any better pieces available at the time. Definitely a steal for the Bengals, and that will go down as one of the more lopsided trades in history.

The point is that there may be a team out there willing to give up something good for Jackson, so they should at least keep that in mind.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 3:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

we trade fred for the raiders first choice in 2014,lol.BTW a second rounder will be great

proud to be a die hard bills fan from france

Resign stevie, chandler, bell and scott, then i will think about april

by le f07 on Jan 4, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think a 2nd round pick is achievable. Although Jackson is older than Evans, Evans never put up MVP-caliber numbers like Jackson did, and Evans has actually played more games. I would at least be asking around to teams that might need a running back.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Why would you give up anything more than a 3rd round pick for a 31 year old RB with only 1 year left on his contract? If he outperforms and you’d be in the same situation that Buffalo’s in (do I give a 31/32yo a new big $ contract or do I just let him walk after a year and kiss my 3rd rounder goodbye)

because he outperformed that contract beginning the first year he was extended, and there is no reason to suspect that he can’t continue to perform at that level, for 2 or 3 years. so, a team hurting for a veteran running back, or a top 5 performing runner, might very well consider signing him longer term, if they don’t already have an investment of a first rounder, like we do.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I am 100% certain that of the collective dozens of people currently employed in the front office at OBD, not a single brain cell has been wasted contemplating trading Fred Jackson.

Then they aren’t doing their jobs – I’m with Storeybox on this one

I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman

by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

me too

which probably won’t surprise anyone.

i think actually though, that the plan IS to re-sign Fred. But, i expect it to be a 3 year deal, that could result in his being traded in year 3.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally I just don’t believe Brian – he’s said he’s 100% certain on things before (Lee Evans) and was 100% wrong.

The Bills would be dumb to at least not consider it – he’s going to be 31 before the season opens and we have a guy that plays almost identical to him but is only 24 and is under contract until 2015.

If we can get a 2nd round pick for him then do it – if you can package him to move up and grab a QB like RGIII then you do it.

If the Bills haven’t contemplated it then they simply aren’t doing their jobs. I see almost no scenario given the current state of the roster in which Fred Jackson helps the Bills win a Super Bowl unless it’s in a backup 3rd down specialist type of way because he’ll be 35+ by then.

I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman

by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i agree to an extent.

i think we could get a 2nd for him… on his current contract, and make it the new team’s issue to sign him long term, which would be an intelligent move… supposing that we are actually building for the future.

Personally I just don’t believe Brian – he’s said he’s 100% certain on things before (Lee Evans) and was 100% wrong.

we all make mistakes. But, rarely do i deal in definitives, for this very reason. We don’t KNOW, without some inside perspective, which you and I know is not an impossibility; otherwise we wouldn’t have known about Williams before the selection. that said: probably the best plan is to stick with stating things as facts, only if you know them to be certain.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

even given insider perspective things change consistently. Bills Brass would simply not be doing their jobs if they didn’t explore that idea – it makes too much sense given how productive he currently is, his age, his contract situation and the fact that we’re no where close to fielding a SB contending team to not consider trading him.

I see no benefit, other than selling merchandise and tickets, to having Fred Jackson on the roster if you can get a 2nd or better for him. The more the Bills wallow in mediocrity by having players like Fred who keep our draft position around 9 yet have no long term potential for success or SB victory is a recipe for continued mediocrity.

I think it was Kaiser that said it right:

You draft a QB early because that’s your best chance at getting a franchise QB and if he tanks then you’re picking high in the draft again and have another shot at that franchise QB. Well right now if the Bills wanted to package Jackson plus some other stuff to the Colts to get Luck then how could you fault them based off of that logic?

I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman

by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well right now if the Bills wanted to package Jackson plus some other stuff to the Colts to get Luck then how could you fault them based off of that logic?

i would fault them, simply because I am not in the belief that a Franchise QB is something you get until you have an established run game, and defense, because otherwise, you are potentially setting him up for failure, because we all know that he is already coming with ridiculous, sometimes completely unfair expectations. That was what I thought would be Nix/Gailey’s plan when they arrived, and said all the things they did about switching to a 34, getting bigger, and more physical, and establishing a running game.

Instead, they traded away first rounders, made Fitz the face of the franchise, never ran with a top 5 RB, and waited 2 years to even use their 1st round draft pick, and then also subsequently hired and then promoted a 4-3 defensive mind.

Actions speak louder than words. I don’t trust this staff anymore. I don’t disapprove yet, because the potential for improvement and results still remain. But, I am skeptical, at best.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

You gotta love it when people posting on message boards state their opinion about a future event or idea, almost as if it has already happened or has been scientifically proven to be a fact?

It’s almost the new “internet bullying” or “internet tough-guy”…or some sort of “pay attention to me”. I just don’t get the logic behind it. Like you say, nobody can predict the future, or, in this instance, read people’s minds. Why some people need to express their opinion in such a way as to make it seem like what they are saying is an indisputable fact really is bizzare to me. Almost like thinking “maybe if I just state this opinion of mine as if it’s gospel and not up for interpretation, nobody will question it” or maybe even “I’ll really seem confident and cool by pretending to know things for sure that people couldn’t possibly know for sure.”

And how does that even help to foster conversation? I see it as quite dismissive of continuing to discuss different possibilities….if one person acts as if something is a foregone conclusion already….almost like saying, “this isn’t worth discussing, so I’ll end it here by stating my opinion as fact, so we can all move on.”

Sorry to go on this rant, but I’ve seen this “strategy” done quite often lately on different message boards….maybe this was just the last straw for me. haha. I mean, who could possibly profess to know what dozens of people were or were not thinking about? I know it’s hyperbole, and in the end isn’t a malicious statement or anything, but…good lord, it really comes off as smug and condescending.

Maybe this is just my opinion, though.

"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde

by StroudFanClub on Jan 4, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

i think the thing i find most annoying

is that certain people want to tell others they are flat out wrong, without providing any justification for their view, or even any evidence to refute the stated view. It is the “because I say so” approach, that I just can’t stand… if you want me to discuss, or feel you have a valid standpoint: maybe support your view with some logical evidence, or where you perspective is coming from.

I completely agree: it is dismissive. It is like: “i don’t agree with your approach, so therefore i can’t agree with what you say.” well… if you want to refute my statements, go for it. convince me. but attacking my person, in order to establish some kind of point, is rarely gonna result in BETTER behavior. Unfortunately, to a point, we can all get irritated, and fire back with equivalent sarcasm and disdain… thus negating any purpose we originally had. It is immature, childish, ineffective, and a total waste of time. But… we all know any of us can be guilty of it because we all LOVE this team, and love will certainly make people stupid, and emotional, and stubborn.

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

SFC

Your so right in so many ways.

If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!

by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks brother. Your on fire today as well.

"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde

by StroudFanClub on Jan 4, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha. Kill me over one wrong thing, man. Don’t screw up the math at your day job! :)

You don’t have to believe me, by the way. All I’m saying is that right now, trading Fred Jackson is not remotely on their minds.

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

considering I hate math and never use it for my day job I should be o.k. then right?

I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman

by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

All I’m saying is that right now, trading Fred Jackson is not remotely on their minds.

Sorry Brian, but this is just the exact thing he/I are talking about…. I mean, Fred doesn’t even know that it hasn’t been considered, especially since as J2 says: If they are doing their jobs, it HAS to be at very least considered.

So if you are completely accurate in this definitive statement… you must have been informed by either Fred, or Nix, or Ralph, and ultimately, any one of the three can change that circumstance at any time… so it is definitely difficult to follow your assumption, and accept it as a fact, or as truth. you are welcome to have this view: it is another to tell others that their view isn’t valid… since we are simply debating potentials here… and the potential still exists.

Just to back-up my view: Suppose Nix said: “hey fred, ralph and i want to pay you, and sign you to an extension.” and then….. they offer him far less than he wants, but what they feel is fair. can you definitively say that they will absolutely work it out? Is there not relatively good cause to be a little weary of accepting your statement at face value, as a clear fact, when there really isn’t any evidence to say your are any more right, than someone else?

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

What?

Good for Bill’s and FJ if he does ink a 3yr. deal. After that FJ will probably retire to FL. being like 90 in RB yrs!

If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!

by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody is safe.

Lee Evans was traded. Steve Johnson was benched. Fred Jackson will hold out and C.J. Spiller (Chans man) will take over. Don’t forget, this organization holds no loyalty to it’s players; see Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, Andre Reed. What do they care about someone who was replaced by another who put up decent numbers. Plus, add the “pieces” they keep talking about and we dont need FJ22 to be 45% of our offense.

by phalupah on Jan 4, 2012 2:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Don’t forget, this organization holds no loyalty to it’s players

I love how people say “this organization does X and Y” as if the organization is some sort of static thing. People that comprise an NFL front office change extremely often.

And it’s not like they disavowed the guys from the glory days or anything. Butler was trying to overhaul the roster because we had a lot of old talent – guys that didn’t have a lot left in the tank anyway. That’s not disloyalty, that’s smart. The present-day Patriots make a killing the same way all of the time.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman

by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone else afraid of Trent Richardson at #10?

While I think he’ll be a heck of a back and a great compliment to Spiller I am so afraid the Bills will use the #10 pick on him after watching them draft Spiller in the top 10 two years ago.

by Wyrd UpSide on Jan 4, 2012 11:54 AM EST reply actions  

No.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jan 4, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

(Insert cliche Bills futility joke here)

by Xaviermw on Jan 4, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

2 years ago Fred was not the known quantity to this regime that he is now.

Harooo

by Robot Nixon on Jan 4, 2012 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

highly unlikely

after the Spiller pick everyone assumed that Nix was clear BPA due to it not being a need, but the next 2 picks (Troup and Carrington) were clear need over BPA as has been the story down the line both that year and 2011, either need or BPA meets need. Nix chose Spiller because the Bills evaluated at the time (quite wrongly IMO) that Buffalo had a decent team (7-9 records) under Jauron that just needed a few added pieces, the most critical being a ‘home-run’ threat. Spiller was clearly the best choice for that role at #9 so they picked him. We’ve since seen them have a clearout of no#1 QB, RB & WR as well as LB & a bunch of the defense. Richardson will probably be a superb player in this league but it won’t be for the Bills.

Check out http://mocknfldrafts.blogspot.com/

by Billsdownunder on Jan 4, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

No

They already have two talented RB’s and one in development (White).

by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 4, 2012 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

and when they drafted Spiller...

They had one of those same two running backs and Marshawn Lynch.- Just saying it would fall into the same pattern.

by Wyrd UpSide on Jan 4, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

The difference is there was a new regime who knew what it wanted in an offensive weapon. There is no new regime now, and they know what they have in offensive weapons.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jan 4, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll throw this out there...

Given Gailey’s inability to fully utilize two star running backs, would anybody be shocked if the Bills made Spiller the starter, resigned Choice as the #2, and traded Jackson for a mid-round pick?

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 12:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

That would be the final nail in Nix coffin.

by Rick A on Jan 4, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Back in 1987, the Bills traded away a very productive running back in Greg Bell (as well as two first round picks and a second round pick) as part of the three-team swap that landed Cornelius Bennett. It wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing if Nix could pull off something similar.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

except that trade had nothing to do with Greg Bell

I think the Rams were eying 2 first rounders and 1 second rounder for letting Eric Dickerson walk. Greg Bell was an afterthought.

If the Bills can get 2 first rounders and 1 second rounder for FredEx, I’d say we do it and wish him the best of luck ;) But of course, that’s fantasy-land.

by paythemannow on Jan 4, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

They’ll never get three draft picks for Jackson straight up. The 1987 deal was three draft picks and Bell to the Rams, Eric Dickerson to the Colts, and Bennett to the Bills. If they could trade Jackson plus some draft picks for a game-changing player, I’m interested.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Draft picks are more coveted now than they were in 87.

"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.

by stetzwebs on Jan 4, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I know we'll never get those picks for FredEx

That was my point. We can’t trade FredEx because we are not going to get any real value for him.

My comment was in response to your comment that we got trade value out of Greg Bell. I’m saying we didn’t. Rams got value for Dickerson. We paid dearly for Bennett and thankfully for us it works out (plus those draft picks got wasted by the Rams). I’m highly doubtful that we can get anything beyond a single mid-round pick for FredEx today.

by paythemannow on Jan 4, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He will never have as much trade value as he does right now. If they wanted to make a move, this would be the time. We got a 4th round pick for an underperforming wide receiver who couldn’t beat double teams, I don’t see why we couldn’t get a better pick for somebody who was having an MVP-caliber season (but will probably be retired before this team ever makes the playoffs).

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Provided Spiller turns out to be Thurman Thomas quality and the player Nix trades for turns out to be perennial all-Pro. You can make a case that giving away Greg Bell, two firsts and one second in 1988/1989 for Biscuit hurt the team in their Super Bowl runs.

by Rick A on Jan 4, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

And recall that Bell was as much a pain in the roster to the Bills as McGahee, Lynch or Henry, perhaps more.

by Rick A on Jan 4, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d revolt.

"Go check on the ribs!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 4, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Jackson/Spiller/Choice

One of top combos, why mess with a good thing?

by Rick A on Jan 4, 2012 12:09 PM EST reply actions  

marshawn/fred/spiller

in hindsight- same thought could be employed. not that Ralph hadn’t likely given up on Marshawn (most likely because Thurman had an issue with the kid) and so… value for a RB isn’t out of the question, especially when we can’t find enough touches for ONE, let alone TWO, LET ALONE THREE!!!! : )

ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE

by ThaRealTruth on Jan 4, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem isn't fred's raise.....

It’s the amount of the raise. same with Stevie……

Fred shouldn’t ask for the moon, he should honor his current contract. The Bills signed him to his current contract and both sides gained security by signing. Since he way outperformed it, perhaps a compromise is in order, nothing more.

I’ll be miffed if it is true that all Stevie was asking for was 7.5 milll.
Because that seems about right. And of course, the worst part, we could have signed him mainly with last year’s money, there’s the rub. Wilson pocketing huge sums by not competing. Sucky owner, stupid set-up by the NFL. ….. If, this is all true.

Go Bills!

PodunkO - The great post ender!

by podunkowego on Jan 4, 2012 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

This is what happened with Jason Peters

Peters signed a reasonable deal to play right tackle. Then he was moved to the left side, performed very well, and wanted to be paid like a left tackle (which is usually one of the highest salaries on any team). Everybody balked, saying he should honor the contract he signed. He held out, had a mediocre year because he missed training camp, was prepared to hold out again, so we ended up trading him away. We’ve been trying to fill the LT position ever since.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 12:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It really does concern me that the team has a bunch of extra money to spend on building the team and they continue to keep their best players dangling in the breeze.

"Go check on the ribs!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 4, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m guessing you’ll see a new, front-loaded contract for Jackson for 3 or 4 years. It gives him stability and it doesn’t hamstring the team for too long. We’re not close to the cap anyway, so it makes a lot of sense.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman

by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 5, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I went back and looked at how often the Bills draft running backs, then stopped counting upon discovering that the team has drafted a running back in 14 of the past 17 seasons – a stretch that includes four first-round picks.

Lest anyone think I’m manufacturing that little factoid, here you go:

2011 – Johnny White
2010 – C.J. Spiller
2009 – NONE
2008 – Xavier Omon
2007 – Marshawn Lynch, Dwayne Wright
2006 – NONE
2005 – Lionel Gates
2004 – NONE
2003 – Willis McGahee
2002 – Jarrett Ferguson
2001 – Travis Henry
2000 – Sammy Morris
1999 – Shawn Bryson
1998 – Jonathan Linton
1997 – Antowain Smith
1996 – Leon Neal
1995 – Darick Holmes

Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®

by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

How many of those backs were drafted to be feature backs

Smith
Henry
McGahee
Spiller

Not arguing the numbers but most of these backs were drafted for special teams

2011 author-mod pick'em -poz
I'll knock the bieber out of brady - arthur moats @dabody52
2011 -adopted offensive player roscoe parrish(IR) david nelson
2011-adopted defensive player arthur moats

by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

he’s not arguing they were drafted to be feature backs. He’s saying it wont be surprising if they draft competition for White.

by TrufflePig on Jan 4, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Marshawn Lynch

was drafted at No. 12 overall but wasn’t drafted as a feature back?

by nickfeely8 on Jan 4, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

My phone deleted him

2011 author-mod pick'em -poz
I'll knock the bieber out of brady - arthur moats @dabody52
2011 -adopted offensive player roscoe parrish(IR) david nelson
2011-adopted defensive player arthur moats

by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 12:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Your phone hates skittles, doesn’t it?

"Go check on the ribs!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 4, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I do custom roms for android phones

And still has some bugs in it with the keyboard and screen sensitivity

With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III

by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It was a joke. Marshawn is Mr Skittles.

"Go check on the ribs!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 4, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I know i follow him on twitter

I love his skittle cleats

With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III

by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I probably

could have said that in a nicer way. Bad morning for me.

by nickfeely8 on Jan 5, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

wow and only 2 1st round QB's in 30 years

this says it all.

Check out http://mocknfldrafts.blogspot.com/

by Billsdownunder on Jan 4, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

To bad we aren’t as proficient at drafting QB’s!

If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!

by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Has Spiller really showed anything before Jackson got hurt?

Freddy was unbilleivable this past season. He himself must know that he can prolong his career in the NFL with a two back system, but first C.J. needs or needed to learn how to run in the NFL. C.J. made great strides in the last half of the season, this is one of our positives going forward.

Prior to Freddy getting injured C.J. wasn’t exactly selling out the shelf of jerseys at the store. Chan has given him opportunities but C.J. never really satisfied Chan during that time span. I think going forward that Chan can work with the both of them with C.J. being the main back in 2013-2014 and Freddy with the third down specialists role and variations mixed in. I still think it is a nice problem to have going forward. Tashard Choice stays until Johnny White can push him off the roster.

YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde

by VanScottM on Jan 4, 2012 12:20 PM EST reply actions  

Spiller was actually doing quite well at the beginning of the year while Jackson was still healthy. The problem was that he was only getting two or three touches per game.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

How could he be doing well if he was only getting two or three touches per game.

Just saying, and Freddy was out of this world.

YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde

by VanScottM on Jan 5, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

How could he be doing well if he was only getting two or three touches per game.

Because Jackson was doing so well that Gailey couldn’t chance giving Spiller the ball more if he struggled. Spiller was averaging 5.something per carry if my memory serves.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman

by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 5, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Im thinking gailey is heading down the charles road

Its gonna be spiller with jackson mixed in not a bad thing but still think they should give jackson a extension 2 years 10 mill all bonus

2011 author-mod pick'em -poz
I'll knock the bieber out of brady - arthur moats @dabody52
2011 -adopted offensive player roscoe parrish(IR) david nelson
2011-adopted defensive player arthur moats

by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 12:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I can live with that

Except I’d still make Jackson the workhorse and let Spiller be the change of pace.

I think if they don’t give Jackson a raise it’ll send a very bad signal to the rest of the team. If you don’t play well, we’ll cut you before your payday. If you outperform your contract, well you’re stuck. Why the hell would anyone want to come to play for us?

by paythemannow on Jan 4, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep both...

Freddy is one of the best in the league… but he is getting older… work CJ in a little more, he is the successor to Freddy… it is plain and simple but it requires that the GM manage and the Coach coach…

If the Saints can manage Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, Chris Ivory and the whole talented receiving corps with Drew Brees, it would seem that the Bills could manage with 2 backs, a less than average QB and mediocre young receivers.

by Buff69King on Jan 4, 2012 12:53 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Helluva post.
If the Saints can manage Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, Chris Ivory and the whole talented receiving corps with Drew Brees, it would seem that the Bills could manage with 2 backs, a less than average QB and mediocre young receivers.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 4, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

except

Saints RB’s rarely see field time. It works because they are winning (ie: because they have Drew Brees). The rumblings would start as soon as they lost a few.

Check out http://mocknfldrafts.blogspot.com/

by Billsdownunder on Jan 4, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Id like to see our RB depth chart look like

1A: Freddy
1B: CJ
3: Choice

If Choice isnt re-signed, like you said, I hope they bring in some competition for the 3rd RB, to go against White.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 4, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

Another part of the problem is that Gailey has shown no willingness to give the backup more than a handful of touches per game, both before and after Jackson got hurt. Either that, or he can’t figure out how to creatively use two running backs in the same play. Either way, if we go into next season with both Jackson and Spiller on the roster, I think one of the two will end up feeling like they’re not getting enough touches, whether it’s Jackson feeling like he’s losing touches to Spiller or Spiller feeling like he’s been underused.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 3:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

playing devil's advocate

If the Bills were unwilling to renegotiate Jackson’s contract during the season, there is no guarantee that they will offer him an extension during the off-season that meets his expectations. We could be headed for another Jason Peters “pay me or trade me” showdown.

by SiriusRed on Jan 4, 2012 2:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

frustrated bills fan

If chan can figure out how to use spiller and jackson from wk 1 to wk 16 healthy we are definitely a playoff team. Stevie is extremely immature but still a good football player and has the potential to be a top 10 wr in this league. With fitzy under center bring all of our team back with strong draft picks and hopefully free agents bc no one wants to play here the Buffalo bills will once again be a empire with super bowls under our belt I strongly billieve that

by #1billsfan on Jan 4, 2012 7:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Oh, boy.........Our two best players gone.........

I will be insanely pissed (and I’m a huge Homer) if we let our two best players go.

Steve by not signing him (aka Poz), and then screwing Fred and trading him for a pick.
What GM in the NFL would NOT pony up a 2nd rounder for Fred’s pathetic salary this year.
A Pro-bowler.
I would say most. Or at least the one’s who have a legit playoff chance this year.
Sure, sure……… we get a second rounder. And how often in the last 10 years do our 2nd rounders work out? And another team gets a top 5 back to put them over the top.
Wanna see Freddy on the Pats next year? Cause that’s what will happen.
And I would puke.

Hopefully, Buddy keeps his promise to Fred and takes care of him.
And we keep Steve.

(Shaking my head and getting even angrier after typing this).

"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.

by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 4, 2012 7:38 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Is two really a crowd?

I’m not convinced that Jackson and Spiller can’t be an effective running back tandem in Buffalo’s offensive scheme. I think Spiller’s career got off to a slow start due to his deficiencies as a blocker. He also seemed to be a bit slow picking up the nuances of Gailey’s offense. Now he’s had plenty of time. He’s proven he is a quality running back. Gailey finally has confidence in him. Can someone explain to me why he and Jackson can’t both have a decent number of carries and have their heads fully in the game?

by TigerJ on Jan 4, 2012 10:17 PM EST reply actions  

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