Doug Whaley Connected To Indianapolis Colts GM Opening, Per Report
by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 1:15 PM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintWhile Buffalo Bills fans contemplate rumors that GM Buddy Nix is planning to retire following the 2012 NFL Draft - thereby handing over control of his football operation to Assistant GM Doug Whaley - more fans should now be pondering whether or not Whaley will even be with Buffalo at that time.
Bob Kravitz of The Indianapolis Star, in discussing who might take over for Bill Polian as head of the football operation with the Indianapolis Colts, is "hearing" three names associated with the gig. One of them is Tom Ciskowski, who took over for Jeff Ireland in running the Dallas Cowboys' scouting operation. One of them is Reggie McKenzie, a pro personnel director with the Green Bay Packers.
The third name is Doug Whaley. The former Pittsburgh Steelers pro personnel coordinator has been in Buffalo for a little less than two years, and who received a promotion last May, now overseeing both college and pro scouting operations.
Whaley has long been considered an up-and-comer in the business, and he's been considered Nix's successor as Bills GM essentially from the moment he was hired in February 2010. That plan will need to change, however, if Whaley becomes the successful candidate for another opening - and if Kravitz is right, his first look may be from Indy.
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Im not worried
He is staying. Indy will look elsewhere
and take RG3 with the first pick
2011 author-mod pick'em -poz
I'll knock the bieber out of brady - arthur moats @dabody52
2011 -adopted offensive player roscoe parrish(IR) david nelson
2011-adopted defensive player arthur moats
by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 1:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
you forgot the part where Lucks slides to us at 10.
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
our luck has been sliding for 12 years…
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
by fansince60 on Jan 4, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
maybe Ralph should build a casino/waterpark ....... Wilson's LuckySlide :-)
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
He’s already built a carnival ride: Wilson’s House of Horrors
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
RG3akes perfect sense for indy
He sits for 3 years while manning gets to ride off into the sunset
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 9:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Luck makes more sense. Luck makes sense for ANY team to pick him. Any team. You get the top pick, you pick the top guy. Luck is an absolute stud primed to succeed in the NFL.
He may not be as flashy as RGIII, but Luck is the type of guy you completely build a franchise around. Like someone else with a horseshoe on his helmet.
I mean, how fitting is it to have Luck wear a horseshoe?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Accelerate the Plan?
Buffalo may not want to, but they may have to accelerate the plan to advance Whaley to GM.
I’d like to see a back-room Brandon-Nix-Whaley deal that has Nix “promoted” to some title above GM, and Whaley taking over. Something like “Senior Vice President of Football Operations.”
Nix’s role would be unique: mentor for Whaley, buffer between Whaley and Wilson, trusted agent that makes Wilson feel comfortable, subject matter expert that weighs in on certain players in terms of scouting, etc. But also not enough of a hand in operations to impede Whaley. Nix could also spend some time golfing.
After the draft would be the time to make this sort of move.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 4, 2012 1:28 PM EST reply actions 14 recs
it was my first thought also. but if indy pursues doug whaley right now, might they want to try something like this before the draft? if its the difference between keeping and losing him
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Jan 4, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It doesnt matter, you can agree to everything before the draft. When he has the title makes no difference, especially since he could leave anyway.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
Lose Whaley........ nice. NOT.
Perfect way the Bills get screwed. Yet again.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 4, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds smart.
But we might not have the luxury of waiting til after the draft to make this happen. Instead, promote Whaley to GM now, while giving Nix the “Senior Vice President of Football Operations” title.
But have Nix still heavily involved in the upcoming draft. Then, if he does decide to retire, Whaley is already in place.
Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!
by bflo on Jan 4, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You've been on a roll lately....
You’ve had some great posts and now this. I was thinking something similar and then I get to your comment and here it is. One point I might add though. If you were Whaley, would you rather be GM in Indy w/ Manning (who may or may not be healthy) and the #1 overall pick or with the Bills? I don’t know. A lot of the vets in Indy are on the back side of their careers, but starting with Andrew Luck and building from there? It would be interesting to see how this plays out (if it plays out at all.)
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
Going to the Colts would be more enticing, the best thing for Whaley to stay in Buffalo is the leg-up he’d have by knowing the players/system/scouting already.
Check out http://mocknfldrafts.blogspot.com/
by Billsdownunder on Jan 4, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Irsay over Wilson
That would be my choice. Plus a new stadium instead of worrying about the team leaving once Wilson leaves. Oh, and you get your choice of a top QBs.
starting with Luck outweighs all
Whaley is gone if the Colts want him doesnt matter what we do or how bad the rest of the Colts team is – that awful team was a perennial Super Bowl contender because of Peyton Manning and Whaley knows this. Luck is his to build around, thats a dream job for a first time GM
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 4, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. If Luck turns out as good as they say, sometimes that's all you need.
Peyton sure showed that this year.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Jan 4, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I've been waiting for my masters problem statement, thesis statement, and outline to get approved
So I had some time.
Don’t undersell Buffalo. It’s a good job. Irsay might not be a great owner to work for.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Is Ralph a great owner to work for?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
I just can’t believe the Colts are rebuilding after one season where Manning isn’t available to them. Best player in the NFL. There is no one more important to his team.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
If these reports are true then Whaley might not last until the draft.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 4, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Give him a "wink wink" promotion
Set aside the title until later (or do as Der has said) but increase his pay to the level equivelent with a mid level GM to appease him. So now he doesn’t lose any income and a reassurance that he’s next in line.
Why wait?
What you’ve described works best for you (or more specifically for the Bills), but it doesn’t work best for Doug Whaley.
So, why wait? If you’re ready to work without a net, take the job in Indy.
Better owner, better franchise, better team, better stadium.
Conversely, if Buffalo feels Doug Whaley is better than Buddy Nix, why the hell would let you Buddy Nix run the next draft?
That’s just stupid from a business AND a football perspective.
by EvilJohn on Jan 4, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Better team? A team that loses its QB and wins 2 games is somehow better? Especially since it going to lose Wayne and Mathis?
Better owner and franchise? Which metrics, other than your own opinion, can you back that with?
it’s not about thinking Whaley is better than Nix. Was Sean McDermott better than Jimmy Johnson as the DC in Phily? Because the dynamics are the same: older boss, younger understudy that’s earmarked to take over.
Before you start calling ideas stupid, you should have some facts to back your arguments.
Re-starting the official Buffalo "Draft a quarterback in the First Round in 2012" campaign.
Accelerating the plan will not matter - Whaley is as good as gone if he gets the job DJ
if the Colts pick Whaley he would be nothing short of a fool not to take the job. Its a young, first time GMs dream to have his first job in the league be one in which he is in position to have Andrew Luck to build around, the odds for success are then enormous.
He is gone if the Colts want him and it stinks.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 4, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well said.....and the picks they will get for trading Manning and it is a no brainer
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Exactly like Parcells in Miami
for another 1-2 years
Sounds great!
Rebuilding a team properly takes time and patience
Dang it
On the one hand, I guess this is a vote of confidence in the Bills personnel.
But on the other, it means that we’ll have to beat out a very attractive position in Indianapolis to keep Whaley. I mean think about it — what GM candidate wouldn’t prefer a situation where Andrew Luck is your starter for the next decade? It’s as though your success is preordained.
Hopefully Whaley is some sort of masochist or something so he’ll stay with us.
by Munchausen on Jan 4, 2012 1:28 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I wouldn't be so sure
about either of those things. Whaley probably has the most potential of the 3 names thrown out there. Buffalo probably would have to offer him our GM spot as the only way to persuade him not to go. It’s not like Buffalo Ralph Wilson is a more comfy job than at Lucas Oil, I mean come on.
"What it takes to win is simple, it's not easy."
-Marv Levy
Well that would stink
Promote him now, give him a raise and start getting Nix out of the way.
If offered, I wouldn’t be surprised if he took the Indy job. Having the top pick (likely Luck) really sets a GM up nicely for extended success.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jan 4, 2012 1:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
It worked well for Polian. (
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
I concur with everyone here. The Bills will likely lose Whaley to Indy if they don’t promote him now. Even if they did offer him that promotion, they still might lose him to Indy.
Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin. -- stetzwebs
No one circles the waiver wire like the Buffalo Bills!
There’s no way he doesn’t consider the Colts position if it’s truly a possibility for him.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Probably not a concern
My guess is that Buddy Nix is going to announce at his news conference next week that he will be stepping down after the draft and that Whaley will be taking his place. The BuffaloWins story states that Nix has already started telling Bills’ staff members about the changes. That’s what he is likely doing this week so that the staff will have heard it from him directly before he goes public. Given all the GM openings around the league, the thought may be that they need to get Whaley locked up or they are going to lose him. Announcing his promotion next Monday will be soon enough.
Fascinating situation.
When news of Polian’s firing first broke, I really didn’t think the possibility of him returning to the Bills had any serious merit. However, if Indy essentially raids the future of our GM office (like most people, I was assuming a Nix-to-Whaley transition in the near future), it leaves an unexpected void that might actually open a door to Polian returning.
Of course, I am not naive to the obstacles (does Polian still want to GM, can Ralph and Polian get over their past differences, etc.). However, I find even the possibility of it all fascinating. Yes, Whaley would have the luxury of the 1st overall pick (Luck), which sets him up well for many years to come. Polian, however, has a history of success, and I have to imagine that in addition to just doing his normal job, the possibility that he could extract some measure of revenge by eliminating the Colts might light his fire even more.
Probably overthought on my part, but again, interesting to ponder.
by brooklynbuffaloboy on Jan 4, 2012 1:54 PM EST reply actions
Great minds apparently think alike (sort of)….see below.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
i was thinking this too
would anyone really object to polian coming back?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ralph Wilson might.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
ha
true
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
lol
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
would anyone really object to polian coming back?
I would. Turning back the clock rarely works. Levy/Polian were from a different era of Bills’ history. Levy’s return was a failure and I wouldn’t expect Polian’s second tenure in OP to be anymore successful.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Jan 4, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, Levy was never cut out to be a GM, until this year, that’s all Polian has been and he has a track record of it.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
i dont see how pulling
an ex coach back to be a gm is comparable to bringing back the best gm this franchise ever had…..
its not like polian has been a failure at indy….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I agree……..I was refuting PineWoods above me. I think your argument is identical to mine, in fact.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
it is
i just answered in line.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Not a failure but not great...
I won’t say that he’s been bad, but if they didn’t have Manning, how good would the Colts have been the past few years. Some teams are built to win even if the star QB goes down (Pittsburgh, New England, etc…) while Indy is carried by Manning. He did pick Manning and deserves credit for that (not that it was a hard decision), but beyond that, what has he done in Indy?
See my post above for more details on my reasoning.
their inability to play
falls all on the GM? not the coach?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
It falls on both
Part of it is certainly coaching. But part of it is the other players having the talent to make up for the loss of Manning.
Either way, the GM picks both the head coach and players, so however you weight it, he put in place the people who failed.
I’d say Polian built the perfect team. If Manning got hurt, the team was sunk anyway. Their defense was built to tee off on QBs b/c they assumed they would have leads and score a lot of points. Without Manning, they were unable to stop the run and couldn’t “pin their ears back” and go after the QB. So, they were exploited offensively and defensively. They built, not just the offense, but the defense around Manning, and when you have a legit franchise QB, that’s how you win championships (or in Polian’s case: championship).
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think a perfect team hinges on one player
I’d say a perfect team is flexible enough to adjust to any injuries or hurdles that face it. A perfect team doesn’t have only one way to win. Indy became too one dimensional. I think a mistake was made by putting all the eggs in one basket.
I also look at the other teams who have recently succeeded despite losing their QB (NE, Pitt) for a while as well as the ones that succeeded despite having an average QB. I think if Polian was great, he would have the people in place to overcome the loss of Manning (maybe not go to playoffs, but not to crash as bad as they did).
I never called it the perfect team. Plus if putting all my eggs in one basket gets me a title, I say go for it.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh wait, I did call them the perfect team. Well, what I meant was the perfect team if you have a QB like Manning, as I explained after saying that.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
It could also be argued that putting all their eggs in one basket and not building a more balanced team kept Indy from winning more Super Bowls. Some have argued that their lack of balance and flexibility is what allowed them to be beat by New England all those years.
I realize that this is speculation as well as off the original topic, so I’ll leave it at that.
Also, the Pats didn’t make the playoffs w/o Brady and Pitt w/o Big Ben is not a contender. Also, if you are going to miss the playoffs and you are a team like Indy that always picks in the high 20s, maybe there is some value in crashing and burning and getting a top 5 or top 10 pick.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I know it doesn't change the fact...
Also, the Pats didn’t make the playoffs w/o Brady
But they went like 11-5 that year. That should almost always be good enough. Especially when teams lose 3 straight at the end of year and get in or go 7-9. But it is what it is.
Sure, Fitz aced the Wonderlic test...but he does not pass the Eyeball test...
The Pats did quite good (11-5) without Brady. Also, when Big Ben went out for the first 4 games of 2010, Pittsburgh won 3 of 4. It wasn’t a full season so I can’t say if they would or wouldn’t have contended without him, but in 4 games w/o Big Ben, they won more than Indy did this whole season.
look deeper
The Colts were built perfectly for a Peyton Manning team. The defense was designed to play with a lead and get after the qb. Then, they put most of their finances in Manning, the receivers, and the o-line. He drafted Manning, Wayne, James, Harrison, Clark, Sanders, and also found guys like Garcon and Collie (preconcussions he was good). His recent drafts kind of fell off, but what do you want from a guy that never drafted anywhere but the 20’s for the last 7 years.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 4, 2012 11:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also, Pittsburgh is built on defense, and Ben is more of a game manager than a guy that’s going to go out and take the game for you. Now, he’s very clutch, but it is a totally different scheme and he fits that scheme well. The Patriots are built to take advantage of the best coach of all time, and that’s why they’re successful even without Brady.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 4, 2012 11:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The team was built well for Manning, but I don’t agree that is a good strategy or a sign of a good GM to have all your success depend on one player regardless of whether you’re an offensive team, defensive team, whatever.
Pittsburgh has transformed into much more of a passing team since Cowher left, so I would argue that Big Ben was a significant loss for them. They also have lost Polamalu and other key defensive players for periods of time but have kept moving forward. I realize that QB is a much more important position, but that’s all the more reason that the team should be balanced and or have a better contingency plan in the event Manning is out. Also, I don’t agree with the Patriots coaching being an excuse. Polian chose the coach for Indy. Not everyone may be able to go 11-5 when losing their QB, but shouldn’t he be able to find a team and coach that can do better than they did?
I don’t think Polian is a bad or horrible GM at all. I think he was great with the Bills, started off good with Indy, but his performance since then has been mediocre. This chain was started by someone suggesting the Bills grab him. I just don’t think his recent history suggests that he would be a significant upgrade and don’t want the Bills to pursue him.
The guys you mentioned are all good, but where are they now? Most are either gone or on in the twilight of their careers and who has Polian brought in to replace them?
Also, I can understand not consistently getting elite superstars by constantly being in their late draft position, but there is plenty of value in the rest of the draft and while he hasn’t been bad, I think he’s been about average at finding it when compared to other GMs. The Bills have had horrible GMs, and they’ve probably found the same amount of talent outside of round 1 the past 5 years.
Mistake
Yeah getting Luck with first pick in draft isn’t a bad mistake. I still think Colt’s tanked season intentionally. Conspiracy. GM getting his walking papers was/is a ruse. Polian probably was ready to leave!:)
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, Levy was never cut out to be a GM, until this year, that’s all Polian has been and he has a track record of it.
Fair point. But I still say bringing back Polian would be “turning back the clock” and regardless of job assignments, I just don’t think it would work out.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Jan 4, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I Agree - No Polian
I don’t want Polian back. While I’m certainly nostalgic for the good ole days, Polian isn’t the answer.
Manning has carried the Colts. Beyond that, what has Polian done for Indy lately? Other than Manning, he’s only brought a couple good receivers (Harrison and Wayne), a center, and a couple good pass rushers. Everyone else he’s drafted or signed has been mediocre. Polian hasn’t built Indy into a great team, he was just lucky enough to be able to draft Manning, who was able to cover-up deficiencies in the rest of the team.
by Wild_Bills on Jan 4, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i disagree
polian draft picks
1998: Peyton Manning
1999: Edgerrin James
2001: Reggie Wayne
2002: Dwight Freeney
2003: Dallas Clark
2005: Marlin Jackson
2006: Joseph Addai
2007: Anthony Gonzales
all basically hits
Found later round gems in Robert Mathis, Cato June, Peirre Garcon, Antoine Bethea
also brought in UDFA such as Jeff Saturday, Dominic Rhodes, Gary Brackett and Ryan Lilja
all basically this decade
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
True
I had forgotten about a couple of those players (Clark in particular). Bob Sanders was also good when healthy. I do think that some of those players are overrated. Is Gonzales really a great receiver or does Manning just make him look good? Same with Garcon. I’m not saying they’re bad players by any means. I just think many are average to slightly above average and I don’t think Polian showed any genius for bringing them in.
In particular, a lot of Polian’s biggest hits (IMO) are early on. In the past 5-6 years how has he done? Even looking at the whole body, you listed 16 good players in 13 years. A little over bringing in one good player a year. Is that the mark of great GM? The Bills need more than one player a year. (Though given past history, one would still be an improvement).
My biggest reasoning is that without Manning the team absolutely crashed. If Polian had the right coaches and the right players, the team may not make the playoffs but wouldn’t be this bad without Manning. Other teams have survived the loss of their superstar QB because they were built well. Indy flopped.
I’m not saying Polian is bad, I just don’t think he’s anything special anymore and don’t want him back just for nostalgia. I’d rather pull out all the stops to keep Whaley.
by Wild_Bills on Jan 4, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i just mentioned 16 players based on where they were drafted and their over-all success
in the past 13 years what blue chip have the bills brought in and kept long term? polian has had much more success in that area. i didnt bring up the free agent signings , donald brown, austin collie, jacob tamme. dude has had continued success in getting players that fit his scheme.
the biggest thing in my book is 143- 81. in the past 13 i would have loved that many wins.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying the Bills are better.
If you look above I admitted that the Bills would be improved if they had done as well as that. At no point did I argue that the Bills were more successful.
Also, look at the stats and past performance of a lot of the players you mentioned (brown, collie, tamme). They’re not bad, but they don’t really impress me that much. I see a bunch of decent but not great players, brought in by a decent but not great GM. Decent is better than what the Bills have had lately, but it’s not where I want them to be. I want them to be great, not decent.
My point is that Indy won not because Polian built a great team, but because Manning made the team great. While Polian did pick Manning, picking the best player with the top pick, doesn’t take a genius. 143-81 is because of Manning not Polian.
i dont really think you said the bills were better
i was just pointing out that polian has been better than anything we have had in a long time.
an who exactly has drafted better in the past decade? it seems to me that everyone wants multiple pro bowls per draft, which just doesnt happen all that often.
earlier you stated the loss falls on both the gm and coach, so wouldnt the wins? i dont think all 143 wins were because of manning.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 5, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Polian is 69
I doubt he wants to be running a day to day operation that’s why he was working his son in at Indy.
Interesting article on Polian: Reign of terror is over in Indy… Near the end of his tenure in Buffalo he ripped into the fans and Wilson hated the fact that he did…
http://www.lockerpulse.com/News/The-Polian-Reign-Of-Terror-Ends-S2593785/
.
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."
Dick Butkus
by Goose22 on Jan 4, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rmember the infamous Art Wander--"Get out of Town" line
Excellent read—as good as Polian is, he’s equally as stubborn and headstrong, with no tolerance for being questioned. Wilson succeeded in blackballing him in the league for quite a while before he landed the Carolina job. Sounds like the apple didn’t fall far with his son.
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
Oh Yea
“Get out of Town” might have been the straw that broke the camels back with Wilson.
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."
Dick Butkus
There was some incredibly bad blood between him the two at the end
The details never came out, but to even mention the possibility of a Polian return to Buffalo is laughable given the history. I think Bill will join Lou and Cookie on the wall of shame. Too bad
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
Or perhaps Polian knows how to help the Bills tank properly, setting them up to pick the single best player in a future draft. (I’d be okay with this, if it meant fixing the mess that the Bills are now in sole possession of: no playoffs in the 21st century.)
I’m kidding. But only slightly. Maybe.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
They don’t need to panic and promote the guy, he’s going to interview with Indianapolis either way. He knows where the cards lay in Buffalo and that as of now its his job here. He was probably promised an ease into GM job here (which frankly is good, since apparently Ralph talks to Nix every damn day).
He also knows this situation looks less stable, primarily because of ownership. So no matter whether we run into his office and promote him or not, he knows our package. The Indy offer is superior in my mind — new stadium, top pick, stable ownership — unless we offer him a lot more money. To me its just a damn shame that our front office lacked talent for a decade, we get it for all of 18 months and its being threatened before the seeds have germinated.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 4, 2012 1:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Won't the Colts need to ask for permission to interview Whaley first?
Teams pay that courtesy when it comes to coaches, and if I remember right, it’s the same with FO personnel.
This give the Bills a chance to talk with Whaley and possibly come to an agreement before they, if they even do, let him interview with Indy.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Wouldn't it be ironic.....and unlikely
If Whaley leaves town, Nix retires, and the Polians take over the Bills football operations? I don’t think it’s likely, but it would be pretty funny.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 1:55 PM EST reply actions
I really hope not
Imo he has done alot for the bills but like the colts he couldnt build them to win without a star qb
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Jan 4, 2012 2:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well, for those who want them to aggressively move up and grab that “franchise” guy, maybe Polian is the guy to go and do that.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
great point
i doubt polian is content with fitzy
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Not only that, but he has a pattern of trying to START his reigns by getting a franchise QB and he’s 2 for 3.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
....also....
…..the one he “missed” on out of that 3, went to a SB with a different team and played in the league for over 15 seasons…..not bad.
Leslie Michael Jasper - 2013 All-Pro NT.
by Home Run Throw-up on Jan 5, 2012 4:28 AM EST up reply actions
This makes sense: Buffalo losing it’s only promising GM candidate in, well maybe ever, and are stuck with a guy who wants to keep Fitzpatrick and Merriman around for the foreseeable future.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Jan 4, 2012 2:12 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Hulk smash! Hulk rage! Hulk cry.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
not going anywhere
Whaley went to Pitt for college, then worked for the steelers for 10 years. So he is in line for a GM position pretty close to home. Not only that but even the colts owner says they are rebuilding. Why leave Buffalo where he knows he will be GM and has already started the rebuild for anouther small market team that is starting from scratch.
No way he leaves for Indy.
by BillsofVA on Jan 4, 2012 2:13 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Indianapolis is only 3 hours farther away from Pittsburgh than Buffalo.
With the advent of flying machines that means nothing.
Why leave Buffalo where he knows he will be GM and has already started the rebuild for anouther small market team that is starting from scratch.
- draft pick. A brand new stadium. Stable ownership. Possibly more money.
Limited time only! Spend $50 & get free S/H w/ code "SHIPFREEUS"
Reason #1 To Leave
Better ownership?
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Was anyone complaining about the Bills’ ownership when they were winning? If Indy makes a mis-step in hiring a GM, see how quickly everyone turns on Irsay. It’s not like the Colts were all that successful before Manning/Dungy/Polian.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
Half hoping the Nix retirement rumours are true now.
I mean I actually like Nix, but want to keep Whaley more than Nix.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 4, 2012 2:14 PM EST reply actions
why?
not sarcastic, but what has he done in this organization to get this praise. im genuinely curious
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Can't we just be happy to finally have a member of our front office be envied by the rest of the league?
And in so not want to lose him?
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 4, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
but not wanting to lose someone for the sole purpose of
keeping them away from someone else doesnt seem like a good enough reason.
I dont know whether whaley is worth it or not, im just surprised so many are upset at this because i havent seen that much from him to be really convinced hes worth all this praise.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
My thought would be this
It seems like the first time in a while the bills have a plan in place for their front office. They have a GM and an assistant GM to take over for him. If Whaley leaves, the team has to basically start over again looking for a GM. With that statement, I am of course thinking that Nix is not going to be around too much longer. The team does not have a history of being managed well. I don’t have a lot of optimism that if Whaley leaves the team will put a credible front office together again. With this logic, I am assuming Whaley will contribute to a credible front office. Who knows if Whaley is any good, but at least it seems like a plan.
Not sure if this is CBF’s thinking, but that is how I read it.
by Gr8fulnfa on Jan 4, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To me its all about character
What does he want to be known for rebuilding the bills to glory or does he leave and take the team loaded with talent indy that has the number one pick peyton manning and andrew luck is coming out this year.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Jan 4, 2012 2:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hahaha.
Dude, that implies that the only thing Whaley cares about is his reputation.
Try this on for size: young, cutting-edge owner; top-of-the-line stadium; franchise stability.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
Follow @BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that stadium look sweet
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Franchise stability....what team are you eferring too.
Are you aware of what has just happened in Indy, the best QB ever might never play again, the owner just fired the two best front office people inthe franchise history. The team had more double digit wins, playoff appearences, division titles, etc. under the Polinas.
As for talent Indy has less talent paying than the Bills. There defense makes the bills look like pittsburgh, their coach is probably going to be fired, and the O-line is in shanbles. They have no running game.
I could go on but Indy a stable franchise, not for another 5 years.
with the picks they will get for trading Manning or the Luck pick,
the Colts will be back in the playoffs before the Bills will…..bank on it!!!!!!
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
Indy
If Indy loses Manning to retirement or a trade they’re going to have to completely redo that team. They’re built specifically for Manning getting a lead and then rushing the passer. I watched a lot of their games (my wife is related to Ryan Diem by marriage) and they are atrocious. Especially on defense, just a joke. Luck won’t be in the playoffs for a few years.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 6, 2012 2:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Are you aware that the Buffalo Bills play a game in Toronto.
And may be moving to Los Angeles? That’s the exact opposite of stability. As for actual team stability, most NFL teams can rebound from all of those changes in a relatively short period. There are only two or three that cannot.
Limited time only! Spend $50 & get free S/H w/ code "SHIPFREEUS"
you have no idea what you are talking about....
- No team can recover from those factors in a short period of time.
- Stop the LA talk because it will never happen you don’t know business.
- Why did you have to write the same exact post as the editor? You can come up with your own thoughts.
by mquintieri on Jan 4, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The fact of the matter is that Ralph Wilson appears be doing nothing to set the team up with someone intent on KEEPING them in Buffalo.
Then there’s this: Any new owner(s) will likely need to build a new stadium, or at least heavily remodel the Ralph. I don’t think it needs it, but I only care about the game on the field. But they will likely need to make major improvements. This means lots of money needed. The Buffalo area is not a booming economy. It’s laced with old money all over the place, and then hard-working folks that get by fairly comfortably day-to-day, but without the excess income to afford PSLs.
PSLs will become the new norm with new ownership. How many local fans can afford to pay even 25 grand for the rights to buy season tickets? Then the likely scenario where those ticket prices become at least twice what they were with old ownership.
It’s not given that the Bills remain in Buffalo, or even NYS – even if the new owner has nothing but the best intentions in doing so.
They’d never fill a high-tech stadium at the cost they’d require fans to swallow.
The one thing Wilson has done that doesn’t get mentioned enough is keeping ticket prices fairly low. I’d say it’s a great idea to attend games now while it’s somewhat affordable. We’re all in for a big surprise if the team manages to stay here for good.
It stinks. Really, it does. Lest we forget the team this entire blog post is about packed its bags and such in the middle of the night and fled Baltimore for the glorious plains of Indianapolis.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
If Miami (Marlins) and New York (Yankees) can have the taxpayer fit the bill for a new stadium, I don’t see why Buffalo couldn’t do a partial payment or something along those lines. Very few places bring the community together like the Bills do in Buffalo, it would be an absolute shame to see the Bills leave for L.A. or another major city.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 6, 2012 2:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Colts
Would seem to be the better franchise all things considered. Why are you so “attack mode” below?
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Above
If you didn't like my last post wait till you read the next! :) Until we draft/acquire franchise QB we'll be setting records for losing soon!
by buffalobacker on Jan 4, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yah franchise stability not there whole front office change. New coach most likly team in shambles. Where did it say I assumed thats all he cares about just reread my subject line than come jump down my throat again.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Jan 4, 2012 2:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
to refute you tho
that team loaded with talent is picking number one for a reason….
not like there isnt a rebuilding project going on there.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 4, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you did say “all about character”…
And I didn’t mean to jump down your throat. No offense meant.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
Follow @BrianGalliford
by Brian Galliford on Jan 4, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
If Caldwell if fired, it will be one of the largest sacrificial lambs in today’s NFL. What’s a guy supposed to do in year two of his tenure after his all-world franchise QB goes down?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
i dont think it will be looked at that way
new gm usually means new coach. gm wants to run the team he wants to run, and if the coach doesnt fit, then he gets canned.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5.
by silverstreak3k on Jan 5, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Um….how about the greatest chance of success?
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 4, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
let's see- pick 2 of 3
your choices: a Fitzmobile with snow tires, a Lucksus, and a Manning Benz 18. Oh, and the Lucksus and Manning come with a beautiful temperature controlled garage.
Hmmmm, which ones to choose?
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
There’s also the Robert Griffin Ariel Atom III.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Whaley?
It would be nice to retain so youth in the FO. I just don’t know if things are linning up right for the Bills, whenever we finally have new ownership it will probaly be in the next few years and it may bring about a new GM, HC, & starting QB. In the meantime we have to operate as if we are stable, all the while hedging our bets for the future, so with all things timing is key, this time I hope we don’t let the moment get away from us, or our young Mr. Whaley.
This would be the most Bills thing ever.
But even more-so if he signs Johnson in Indy and then Manning signs with Buffalo and becomes Drew Bledslower.
Limited time only! Spend $50 & get free S/H w/ code "SHIPFREEUS"
Is Bill Polian retiring?
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Jan 4, 2012 8:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
he was fired.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Dude knows how to get fired, that’s for sure.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 5, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I know nothing about Whaley’s ability to run a team and I’m not go to pretend I do just because I’m familiar with his name and bio. His background with Pittsburgh is enticing on paper, but makes for no slam dunk that he’s capable. I’d like to hope he is the long term answer for this pathetic franchise so obviously I’d like to see him stay on and takeover the GM role and lead this team out of the muck they’ve been in since Wilson became frightened of concentrated power when Donahoe failed. I guess the good news is that if I was a Colts fan reading these bios, I’d want McKenzie. Maybe Irsay will see it that way too.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
Doug
You can’t leave. Ride this ship out homie. Yaaa so what, a stable owner with a pulse a brand new stadium and a draft that could make you a legend? Hmmmm ok Doug you can go, I understand
twitter @davidjpalermo
by sketchydave on Jan 4, 2012 9:52 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Keep him Keep him Keep him!!!!!
I was so happy we got Whaley and if he leaves we;d be screwed….AGAIN…..
goodbye whaley
The Raiders just hired Mckenzie from Green Bay. Whaley just became a lot more likely to be offered the job.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Jan 6, 2012 2:35 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Hey Indy
We’ll trade you Whaley for Polian and the #1 pick.
Polian can then, as his first act, slap the franchise tag on Stevie Johnson, then trade him to the Redskins — giving the Bills three 1st round selections in the top 10.
Deal? Lol
.
"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson
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