Chix: Their Time on the Pot Is Up
by Port Royal on Jan 9, 2012 10:16 AM EST
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PrintWhen Nix and Gailey came aboard, it was easy to get behind them simply because they weren't the dreadful Dick Jauron and the hapless Circle of Friends front office. Nix was an actual buck-stops-here GM. The lack of a true GM for four seasons could be described as nothing less than absurd. It was the symbol of Buffalo's dysfunction. Gailey came in talking about results and wins which was refreshing after four years of Jauron's rhetoric where actual wins were chalked up to happenstance and luck. It was easy to get behind this new leaf.
The first red flag was a huge one. Nix indicated that the Trent Edwards Experience was a much better option than the fan base, in their supposed lay ignorance, could ever know. He believed Edwards (Trent Edwards!) could be "coached" into being a success. Bills' fans had seen plenty of Edwards and knew he was not talented enough to play regularly in the NFL and in fact, many believed he'd be out of the league in short order (like he was in 2011). It was an absurd decision to delay searching for a QB at the moment the new regime took over. A franchise QB was the first order of business and OBD simply passed on making the difficult call of hitching their wagon to a potential QB fix.
The Trent Edwards Experience lasted a whole two games. Journeyman, Ryan Fitzpatrick's being able to make the offense look serviceable juxtaposed against the two games Edwards piloted was a hilarious look into just how inept Edwards was as an NFL player; a man who better fit working next to you in a cubicle than trying to match talent with Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger. Nix's claims were proven to be absurd with no room for debate.
Ryan Fitzpatrick played better than could have been expected in 2010. In fact, he looked like a fringe starter rather than a journeyman backup. He made plenty of mistakes as advertised and witnessed in his 2009 cameo, but the team generally moved the ball at a pro level under his leadership which was light years ahead of the Trent Edwards Experience. The pleasant surprise was that Fitzpatrick looked like the perfect bridge QB to lead the team while a draftee frantically was groomed to save this putrid franchise. Rather than cash in on this positive development, Chix chose to stretch it into something it wasn't and again, passed on adding a franchise QB in the draft, expressing confidence in Fitzpatrick long term (despite the imporessive 2011 draft class). We all know what followed: hot start, extension, QB play that resembled the worst of Edwards.
So here we are two losing, last place, 2-10 in the AFC East seasons into this rebuild. Chix anointed Edwards legitimate. Fail. Chix expressed confidence in Fitzpatrick as a long term starter and ultimately paid him like one. Fail?? That hasn't been determined yet. I'm doubtful, most fans are doubtful, but that's where they're at. Barkley and Jones are headed back to college. Luck and RG3 will be gone by the time the third pick is announced (I'd bet the house that somebody trades up to 2 for RG3). You know what? Chix had their chance to get this rebuild going. I say they've made enough decisions on the Bills QB situation. To me, 2012 is doe-or-die for Gailey (and maybe Nix). No head coach since free agency began 20 years ago has ever started their tenure with their team with 3 losing seasons and came back for a fourth and succeeded. Not one. If Fitzpatrick busts like he did down the stretch in 2011, Buffalo will need a new regime. I'd prefer this new regime handpick their QB to build around rather than the awkward prospect of being saddled with somebody else's gamble (think Losman under Jauron). Chix was on the pot for two drafts and they did a lot of reading, but nothing significant happened until they locked up Fitzpatrick long term. That's the baby. He's born and ready for visits. It's time to judge him in 2012. Build around Fitzpatrick for 2012 and if it fails, let somebody else get this thing done. Chix had their chance to find a QB and now it's time to see how they did.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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One very minor edit: the Bills are 2-10 in division games over the last two years. They beat Miami in 2010, and New England last year.
Obviously, that does not change the validity of your opinion one iota. :)
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2012 10:26 AM EST reply actions
Yikes.
I forgot that one. These sad seasons are starting to all blend together in my advancing age. I was thinking of the 0-6 division record of 09, I guess.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
I am a bit surprised you posted this before Nix gives his “State of the Union” press conference today. Might add some fodder to your FanPost.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Jan 9, 2012 10:43 AM EST reply actions
Wow...
Your comments on Edwards really stuck a cord with me…. I wanted to revisit who our starting QB’s have been in the last 5 years.
Losman – not really in NFL anymore (Dolphins don’t count…)
Edwards – not in the NFL
Brohm – not in NFL (plays in UFL now)
Fitz – only Bills QB still in the NFL…
Really sad how poor our QB scouting has been…Imagine if Buffalo actually had a talented QB???
Do I think Chix can draft a talented QB? Yes I do. Nix has a track record with drafting QB’s and I believe they’ll draft us a talented QB who will take over the starting job. I don’t see Nix gambling on a POSSIBLY good QB.
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 9, 2012 10:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
this seems to be the reality of the situation
I don’t see Nix gambling on a POSSIBLY good QB.
Who was there to take at #3? Dalton? Ponder? …Gabbert? Egh.
Looking at the players in the upcoming draft, it seems highly unlikely that Nix likes anyone who’s around at #10. I just have this feeling that if Nix and Gailey aren’t getting someone like Luck, Newton, or RGIII, then they don’t think that’s a better option than what they have in Fitz.
The problem is...
You can find a franchise QB without him being the first QB taken, but odds are that guy won’t be able to come in and start and be successful right away. He’ll need to be groomed and either sit or struggle for the first year or two. One thing Fitz gives us is the opportunity to do that, since he’s adequate enough that a QB prospect can learn for a year before being thrown into the fire. Logically speaking, we’re in a good position to draft our next franchise QB at #10 or in the 2nd round.
But here’s the problem. We have a 72-year-old GM and a coach who’s 10-22 in his first 2 seasons and whose tenure has boasted an 8-game and a 7-game losing streak. These aren’t guys who are going to be thinking about the long term.
They’ll be thinking – in Nix’s case – “how can I get this team to contend for the playoffs in 2012 so I can say I left this team in a better position than I found it?” and in Gailey’s case – “how can I get thise team to contend for the playoffs in 2012 to save my job?”
So while franchise QB is our biggest need – since it’s the biggest need of any team that doesn’t have one – my guess is that it will be ignored once again in this draft.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Just call it a feeling
I think that Nix was hoping Ponder would fall to him in the 2nd round just like Breezus did in ’01.
We all makes these comparisons (and in all three cases above, on only one pro season) without regarding the fact that players perform differently with different teams.
Some QBs who failed with their first team: Steve Young, Brett Favre, and Drew Brees…to name a few.
Look again at Brees. San Diego felt he wasn’t good enough to keep around. In come Phillip Rivers. They haven’t had much post-season success with Rivers. He looks pretty with those stats, but Brees looks better with stats, playoff wins, and a SB ring.
Dalton has played well in year one. The Vikings were largely invisible, but I think Ponder failed. Gabbert drew a tough card.
I’m not convinced that Ponder or Gabbert fail in Buffalo, nor that Dalton succeeds. What I am convinced of is that the risk involved in with learning those answers seems justifiable to me.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying *I* don't like those players
I’m saying that I don’t think Nix or Chan will like who’s available at #10 for QB.
I actually think Tannehill looks like a pretty good QB, for what that’s worth.
Its not all on scouting. The fact they stink is just as much about the team around them and the coaching. Think about the o-line and the turnover at OC. It’s a mess. That’s not a recipe for success. It’s quite possible a kid is scouted correctly and then ruined. I believe its at least half the problem, but of course this is tough to prove. It’s no accident that teams that are good already tend to develop QBs better — less turmoil, easier to break them in, etc.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 9, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the same thing but....
Losman & Edwards haven’t succeeded at the NFL level on ANY team they’ve been on. One would think that Edwards would have performed with the Jags (great running game) or the Raiders (another great running game) but he hasn’t succeeded their either.
We can pass blame around but bottomline…they did not play at an NFL level for any team they have played for.
by BuffaloFanFromCT on Jan 9, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think you can ruin them. At some point, the damage is done. Not saying these guys are great, but Edwards should be more serviceable than he is. We broke him.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
He was Carr’d. Losman was poorly coached, in my opinion. His game never seemed to develop beyond the long bomb. He couldn’t read a defense to save his life.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah Losman also never developed. I think changing coaches and OCs multiple times never helps. My only reservation on Losman was that despite that gun, he just seemed dumb. Sometimes you can’t cure stupid. Of course, we’ll never know. Such a depressing run of QBs.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
by greysquirrel on Jan 11, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
definitely Losman's intellect was lacking
The guy could barely speak in complete sentences. Being smart doesn’t make you a good QB (thanks for proving that one, Fitz), but it does involve processing a lot of information really quickly so being dumb can’t help.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 11, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
This franchise is bad because it won’t take a chance because thats exactly what draft is, a chance! Well said.
Alll Things Considered Bill's Franchise Is Consistent:)
by buffalobacker on Jan 9, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I completely understand your viewpoint
And I agree with it, to an extent. Im firmly entrenched in the camp that believes the Bills need to prioritize finding a franchise QB, so I agree with your desire to find an upgrade over Fitz. My only question is who would you have wanted Nix to draft or otherwise acquire since the new regime took over? With our number 9 overall pick in 2009, our options were Clausen, Tebow, or McCoy. I really cant blame them for passing up those options. In the later rounds, they could have taken a flier on someone like LeFevour, Kafka, or Joe Webb instead of Levi Brown, but I highly doubt any of the QBs in the 2009 draft are going to end up being franchise caliber.
As for the 2010 draft, at number three overall, we passed on the likes of Gabbert, Ponder, Locker and I guess Dalton. This is where I would be more open to debate that Nix should have selected his franchise QB, but Im not sold on Gabbert or Ponder (who was outplayed by Joe Webb at times this year) and think that they would have been a worse pick than Dareus. Now, passing on Dalton in the second last year is a criticism that could have some legs in the future. If Dalton improves upon a solid rookie year and turns into a consistent quality starter, and we continue to suffer through sub-par QB play, then Nix deserves to be chastised for passing on him.
Im just as frustrated as anyone that we dont have a franchise QB, Im just not sure that Nix has really had a true opportunity to select one in these past two drafts. Time will tell, but Nix and Gailey dont have a whole lot of time at this point.
I think you are carrying too much weight with Edwards. This regime has shown accountability like we may have never seen. They realized that Edwards will never get it done in the game, so they pull the hook on him. They realize having 3 good rb’s is pointless, and trade marshawn away in a very fair trade.
Now they realize that the defense has gotta change, goodbye GE.
I like how upfront they tend to be, and how once they realize they have made a mistake, that dont hesitate to fiix it.
Signing Fitz wasnt a mistake. He is making above mediocre/below elite money. And that is how he has played. Before this team was succomb to injuries, they looked like they could contend with any team. I expect to see this team be competitive next year.
Shun the non Billievers!
They realize having 3 good rb’s is pointless, and trade marshawn away in a very fair trade.
But why did they feel the need to add the third quality running back?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
CJ was the best player available on their, and most, boards. They wanted to bring in a quality player. Chan also wanted a quick speed guy. The difference between Fred and Marshawn is not as different as CJ and Fred… obviouslly.
Shun the non Billievers!
The difference between Fred and Marshawn is not as different as CJ and Fred… obviouslly.
I disagree with that assessment. Fred is slower, but he plays quick, and he cuts and find seams, just like CJ. I have never thought of Freddie as a power back, whereas Marshawn is more of a power back. Yeah, he breaks tackles, but all good running backs should break tackles.
Also, yes, CJ was the top guy on their board…but would he have been if they were really weighing needs vs. BPA? It begs the question, did they know what they had in their starters? If not, is that a scouting/tape problem? I don’t honestly see how the choice to add CJ in the draft speaks in any way positively of Nix.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Fred absolutely breaks more tackles than Marshawn, and runs up the middle better than most in the league. CJ is quick and can get to a seam fast. It is a big difference compared to Marshawn.
Im all about BPA. Thats how good teams (Pitt, GB) build their teams. It takes time, but having quality players over mediocre players that fill a need wil make the team better. You fill those holes through FA.
Shun the non Billievers!
CJ's a talented player but....
For a regime to use its first draft pick on a position that was arguably already the strongest on the roster is ridiculous. Especially when that position is one that constantly sees late round picks and un-drafted free agents putting up 1,000-yard seasons.
Essentially they traded Marshawn Lynch and the 9th overall pick in the draft for CJ Spiller and a 4th rounder.
And if BPA was the strategy how would they explain Torrell Troup in the 2nd, who was clearly a need pick, and a poor one at that.
In hindsight 2010 was a weak QB class and the decision not to take Claussen or Tebow at 9 was probably the correct one. But that doesn’t excuse the Spiller decision nor does it excuse the fact that the only QB’s who have been added to the Bills during the Nix/Gailey era have been Levi Brown and Tyler Thigpen.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Torrell Troup was a need, but they also probably graded him to high. A reason Tom Modrak isnt with the team.
Look at the most recent draft
Dareus- Impact as a rookie
A. Williams – Impact as a rookie
Sheppard – Impact as a rookie
Hairston – Impact as a rookie
Searcy – Modest impact as a rookie
J. Rogers – Modest impact as rookie
Jasper – Project lineman.
C. White – LB Depth/Potentiall Starter.
Thats a pretty darn solid class if Ive seen one. And now, thanks to injuries, a pretty experienced class as well.
Shun the non Billievers!
Picking CJ wasn't as rediculous as it seemed...
On paper RB seemed like the strongest position on the roster, which seems crazy until you think about the actual situation.
Marshawn was good, but acted like a clown off the field. That was definately not the image that Nix and Co. want to present about the Bills. They most likely had a plan for unloading him, which included showcasing him after a down season and trading him for the highest pick they could get. Well thats exactly what they did.
Imagine the outcry on these blogs had Lynch been traded and Jackson gotten injured. How mad would people be that Nix hadn’t emphasized RB more in the draft?
Who knows, maybe they would’ve drafted another RB later in the draft in 2010 or 2011, but as it stands, im very happy that CJ is on our roster and not another teams.
He will be a force in the future.
by RochBillsFan on Jan 9, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Marshawn was good, but acted like a clown off the field. That was definately not the image that Nix and Co. want to present about the Bills.
Maybe not, and in fact, the decision to draft Marshawn in the first place was a stupid one and part of the old regime’s flawed approach to drafting. But still, Marshawn was an asset, a 2-time 1,000 yard rusher…an asset which was devalued by drafting Spiller. Running backs don’t turn teams around, and we would have been better off with Marshawn, foolishness and all and the 9th pick rather than Spiller and a 4th rounder.
Imagine the outcry on these blogs had Lynch been traded and Jackson gotten injured. How mad would people be that Nix hadn’t emphasized RB more in the draft?
I don’t think there would have been an outcry at all – first because a RB would have been drafted later on or signed as a FA, and second, because fans would understand that we didn’t need to be 3 deep at RB while we were 0 deep at other key positions.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
What I don't get
Is how many people (not saying you) say we should let Stevie walk for writing on his shirt. Yet we should have kept Lynch after getting caught with guns and dope and hitting people with his car and fleeing the scene.
Harooo
Agreed on that
I’m not even saying we necessarily should have kept Marshawn, just that we shouldn’t have drafted a replacement 9th overall.
As for Stevie he’s a young, talented player who actually wants to be here. Letting him go because a journeyman coach who’s probably in his last year here doesn’t like how he celebrates touchdowns would be insanity.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong
.
" Running backs don’t turn teams around"
Freddie Jackson???
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
Fair point, but it is largely true that in today’s NFL, RBs don’t turn franchises around. Adrian Peterson is perhaps this generation’s Jim Brown. His teams aren’t great with him on it. He’s a great player with great stats, but he doesn’t cause his team to win most weeks.
Jim Brown did. Like no one else.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly....
Think about the best running backs in the league right now – Peterson, chris Johnson, etc. – are they playing this weekend? I’m not saying there aren’t great running backs just that in today’s NFL having a great rb in itself doesn’t seem to correlate to winning a lot of games.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 10, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Turn Around?
We make play-offs?
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 10, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We weren’t going to get a “mediocre” player at #9 in the first round.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
If we have three superstar, all-star caliber running backs on the team because we select one early in the draft every year, who cares? You need to factor in need at some point.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Lynch is hardly an all-star. Closer to awful. Minus a few select highlite beastmode runs. He did nothing, besides a great run in the playoffs, last year. And this year he has a few big beastmode runs, but has been sub-par..
Yes, need has to be a factor, but talent outweighs it by a deciding degree.
Shun the non Billievers!
I never said he was, nor do I think he is. It was a hypothetical situation, meant to convey the idea that need has to factor into draft picks, even first rounders.
BPA assures you of getting better (alledgedly) overall talent.
I was responding to this…you don’t take BPA only every year. Otherwise it’s possible you’re just drafting RB after RB, etc.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Also, you agreed with me when you said Freddie and CJ are both different from Marshawn, which they are. And more similar runners to each other.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Not the point I was making. I cant see how you think Marshawn v Fred is more different than Fred v CJ.
Marshawn and Fred both are quick and break tackles more than most.
CJ has game breaking speed, and gets to the edge quickly.
Shun the non Billievers!
I agree CJ is faster then Freddie and Freddie is better at breaking tackles…but that’s where the differences end, in my eyes. They are much closer in running style than Freddie and Lynch.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
exactly
I’ve read all your comments Stetz and I agree with you 100%. CJ may have been the BPA but there were other quality players available at different positions that would have also filled needs as well.
Freddie and CJ are both lightning type of players. Quick, agile, and good at making people miss. Lynch is a thunder type of runner. Runs hard and through the arm tackles or over players. Also Lynch was still very young when we traded him away and had a 2 1,000 yd seasons under his belt as well as a pro bowl. We did not have to draft Spiller, we did not have to trade Lynch (especially for a measly 4th round pick), and we had a good thing going here with Fred and Marshawn the perfect compliments to each other. I blame Nix for that one and “wasting” that pick on a RB that we didn’t need.
Other positions of need and players we could have taken:
Jason Pierre Paul DE (went to the NYG and had a great season this yr)
Maurkice Pouncey C/G (could have played C or G for us imagine an interior line of Levitre/Wood/Pouncey)
Mike Lupati G (see same for Pouncey)
Sean Weatherspoon (has played well for Atlanta as an OLB)
Jermaine Gresham (TE has been a big need for this team for many years)
Dez Bryant (big play WR the Bills could have used especially with a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets)
Demaryious Thomas (same as Bryant)
Tim Tebow (rumors were Bills liked him and could have been their franchise QB jurys still out though)
Bryan Bulaga (good OT for the Packers the last 2 seasons)
That should suffice for now. Spiller did not HAVE to be the pick. I still think it was a wasted one at that and would have preferred the Lynch/Jackson combo and add any one of those guys I have mentioned over Spiller.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
I don’t believe they draft Spiller if they wanted to keep Lynch. I do believe there were professional problems between Jackson and Lynch, and I feel Nix wanted to put an end to problems before they began. I’d imagine trading Lynch seemed like the better way to go, based on his past, his young age, and the attractive buy-in from other teams, claiming a perceived project.
Jackson was great at that point. Most of us knew it. But he was largely an unknown to everyone not named Bill Belichick. So I think Nix knew keeping Jackson was choosing the best version of Fred-Marshawn, and that the team would be better off finding a Robin to their Batman.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Chan also wanted a quick speed guy.
So he could sit on the bench faster than anyone else?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch had worn out his welcome with UPPER management
and Chix had to get rid of him…just a guess.
Here's hoping!
because
FJ isn’t a spring chicken and ML wanted and was wanted out! Pretty simple really.
Alll Things Considered Bill's Franchise Is Consistent:)
by buffalobacker on Jan 9, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
What gives you the impression Lynch wanted out?
I never heard a single grumble or complaint until they drafted Spiller. Lynch had no problem splitting carries with Freddie for 2 years but when the Bills drafted CJ Spiller, Lynch wasn’t comfortable being part of a 3 headed attack and I can’t blame him. He was a 24 year old RB with 2 1,000 yard seasons under his belt as well as a Pro Bowl appearance. He was coming off a down season and wanted to prove to everyone he still had “it” and how was he going to be able to do that as part of a 3 headed attack?
You may be right that management (Ralph) may have been sick of his antics and off the field problems and wanted him gone but that really is the only thing it could have been.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
Your Right
Shoulda said ML is glad to be out of Buffalo and happy in Seattle. IMHO.
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 10, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I guess this is all about whether there was a franchise QB out there that they could have gotten and we would prefer. I can’t judge the management for not finding something that isn’t out there (can I?). Anyway, I don’t see that player. Or at least, there are potential players, but none of them have proven to be true upgrades over Fitz. Or even that their career is going to be good enough to justify the swap. So given it took 4-5 years of no front office to take it apart. I can afford them a few years to put it back together again before they decide to start dropping in QB gambles.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
given it took 4-5 years of no front office to take it apart
The situation CHIX found themselves in was a cake walk compared to what Millen did in Detroit from ‘01-’08. And, conversely, you look at what Detroit has done in 3 years since 0-16 and you have to wonder about Buffalo’s progress. I don’t see us anywhere near where Detroit is entering the third year of the CHIX experiment. It shouldn’t take several years to fix it, unless you’re not good at it. i fear that is the case.
As for the QB, IMO, Andy Dalton, in his first year, is playing as well as Fitz.. Frankly, I’d feel better being 6-10 with Dalton than Fitz.. 6-10 may be(probably is) the ceiling with Fitz.
“Interest” in Newton seemed like a bone being thrown to the fans. If they were that enamored, moving from 3rd to 1st could have/would have been a small sacrifice. I don’t think they know what they want and/or how to get it.
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
I disagree about one thing…it seems to me that MIllen left Detroit at rock bottom (along with Calvin Johnson). Also, they had the #1 pick and there was a franchise guy waiting for them. Jauron and Levy left this team mediocre. A bottom-out was (still is, I fear) inevitable. I don’t think the situations are as close as people perceive them to be.
But yes, Detroit was in a much better place after two years than the Bills are, and it’s not even close.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Jan 9, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jauron and Levy left this team mediocre.
this team is still mediocre, years later. Worse, we are drafting mediocre replacements for the mediocre talent that was there. We have “C” or worse players in many positions. Yet, the draft picks do not move them aside. Why? Even Spiller was not close to usurping Jackson’s role prior to Fred’s injury.
A repeated phrase in the games over the weekend was " and a play by the rookie ______".
Other than Dareus, what Bills’ rookies would have played started this year if it weren’t for injuries? We are not getting the instant impact from draft picks that other teams are, because they aren’t impact draft picks. I’m tired of hearing they need seasoning, development, blah, blah. Why are ours different than that of these playoff teams? Because we aren’t picking impact players. It should be harder for a rookie to contribute on a playoff caliber team, yet, they are, while ours ride the bench and “season”. It’s getting old.
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
I agree that we’re still mediocre, though I don’t know what that has to do with my post. I don’t see the similarities between our situation two years ago and Detroit’s three years ago, and said so. They were in a much better position, having had a top 5 pick the previous several years. The fact that we bounced around 7-9 for so long did considerably more damage than going 2-14 a few times would have, so I don’t know how similar the situations are.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Jan 9, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont seen any of our rookies riding the bench.
Dareus may be the best player in that entire draft. Aaron Williams is a starting CB. Kelvin Sheppard is a starting ILB. Searcy is the back up SS and started a couple games when Wilson as out. Hairston will be the future LT and played because Bell was injured. I don’t understand your logic. Only the 1st and 2nd round rookies generally play for good team. Idk who did the Patriots, Packers, Steelers, Ravens draft in the 1st round this year, they are not these impact players you are talking about. and Spiller played great once Jackson went down. While agree we are not a good team yet, you cant assess young players based on their rookie and 2nd season too much. But maybe I’m wrong and the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Packers are being led to the playoffs by rookies this year. The exception is the Bengals, but they have an amazing defense- not because of their rookies.
You are now Watching The Throne.
Cam Newton is a far better pick than Dareus. Buddy Nix would probably even say so.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I would not say far better.
We will see who becomes better, but yea Cam is definitely number 1 but #2 i think is Dareus.
You are now Watching The Throne.
Von miller is pretty sick also
If you pick in the top 5 and you don’t get a great player youre in trouble.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 10, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
and the bills
would have picked newton if he was still there,
and they said as much
Exactly tomcs!!
I think Chix had a GREAT draft this year and would grade them an A- now that we have the always helpful 20-20 hindsight of a full season to grade it on. Dareus was absolutely the best pick for the Bills at #3 and proved it with his play and a guy who should be a STUD for our Dline the next 6-8 years. He’s also a team leader. If Meatball comes back fully healed, watch out for our front next year. Sheppard, Hairston and Williams were also solid productive contributors for us this year. Spiller will be just fine. We would have TOTALLY tanked w/out CJ this year when FJ went down. Absolutely nobody would have been afraid of our run game. We just have to get Fitzy able to run more PA next year….
by AlwaysaBillinPhilly on Jan 10, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Detroit had a number of first round picks at the very top for a few years, including picks from the Roy Williams trade and the opportunity to draft Stafford. We have not had the same opportunity.
I don’t think Carolina was looking to trade back. If some other team had moved ahead of us, by all means we could now be annoyed. But given Carolina stayed pat and was clearly enamored with him, not sure there was anything to be done.
Andy Dalton is maybe playing as well as Fitz with a better defense and receiver and o-line. Yay! Hard for that to look like a clear upgrade. Especially considering we took a much needed CB. Dalton so far as not played like a guy who can be a difference-maker. So for now I’d prefer the CB and not a second tier QB prospect.
I have low expectations. But high hopes.
If only Buffalo could be so "lucky" as to have 3 top 2 picks in the last 5 years.
Of course they are going to hit blue chip players picking that high on such a consistent basis.
This is part of the reason why I hated the Jauron 7-9 years, mediocrity gets you nowhere.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
i agree wholeheartedly...
"Interest" in Newton seemed like a bone being thrown to the fans. If they were that enamored, moving from 3rd to 1st could have/would have been a small sacrifice. I don’t think they know what they want and/or how to get it.
I’m beginning to think they want a franchise QB to fall out the sky and land in their lap.
"A deaf person can hear better than a ignorant person."- Unknown Comedian
by blknites on Jan 11, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I do not agree with every move that Nix and Gailey have made. Not even close. I can completely see why you and other Bills fans feel this way. The NFL today is all about instant gratification, and it many cases you can get that instant gratification. For me however I am willing to give them 3 years to rebuild from the horror that was the previous regime. The team improved from the year before, If they improve again, not a minor improvement, significant improvement, then I say keep them longer if not, then dump them. But I would like to give them at least one more year. That is my opinion.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I don't think anyone expected to be in the Superbowl after 2 years...
But I think we expected to see improvement in a lot of areas which we haven’t seen. Think about the biggest problems that existed in the final year of the Jauron era…
Lack of a franchise QB – still a problem.
Inability to stop the run – still a problem.
Lack of a pass rush – still a problem.
O-line – this one has actually improved. Nix/Gailey’s patchwork quilt approach has worked reasonably well.
Lack of standout players at any position – of the guys you might consider standouts – Jackson, Kyle Williams, Byrd, Dareus and very generously Stevie Johnson and Andy Levitre – all of them besides Dareus were brought in by the previous regime.
I just don’t see where the great strides are being made.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't you read the contract news? We have a franchise QB on salary!
Just he’s not the youngest, or the most proven, and nobody’s really in any agreement as to whether or not he’ll be worth that franchise money. But he’s there…
by Ian MacPersonoid on Jan 10, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with them getting this third year, I think it’s a make or break season. I think their window to bide time with a developmental QB prospect has passed. They went with Fitzpatrick and if that doesn’t work, I’d prefer the next regime choose which prospect they’d like to develop rather than be saddled with somebody they didn’t pick.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Jan 9, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I guess the question is;what is acceptable to keep them around longer? Is it playoff or bust, or is 9 wins but no playoffs okay?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
A winning record with no playoffs would be sufficient progress in my opinion (as long as they didn’t start the season 8-2 or so and crash to a 9-7 finish). The bottom line is that three consecutive losing seasons to start his tenure with Buffalo would be a death blow for Gailey (fair or not given the talent he has to work with).
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
you for got the Captain of the Titanic
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden
"Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances." - Sun Tzu
The Bills and 49ers have been swimming in the same water for years now. The 49ers have had a bit more success, but their last dozen years or so have really been a mirror image of the Bills’ struggles.
The Texans haven’t been turning anything around. They’re a brand new franchise, essentially still.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
What could be harder to turn around from than the cold, vast oblivion of nothingness from whence all teams derive?
by Ian MacPersonoid on Jan 10, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
You stated in the 4th paragraph
that we should of gotten a QB in last years draft? so your referring to not drafting Dareus and getting gabbert, locker or ponder instead?
That doesnt make sense. Dareus was a no brainer pick at 3 and made our defence better right off the bat and has the potiental to be that dominating force for the next 10 years.
Also you said fitz play this second half of the year was like trents? i totally disagree. they have totally oposite play styles. Fitz stuggled to make plays for the offence down the field while edwards failed to make any play what so ever and would not throw the ball past the first down marker. Also in the slide in the second half of the year fitz showed some good games, like against the jets and he played ok last game against the pats (eventhough he had 4 int, 2 i dont think was his fault).
so comparing fitz to edwards playing ability and style is apples to oranges
Ay Ay Ay Ayyyyy
by BuffaloBillsBigestFan on Jan 9, 2012 1:18 PM EST reply actions
Wait. The defense is better?
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
2 years and 2 drafts is not enough time
Since when was this a two year rebuild? Since when has a rebuild ever progressed perfectly? How many teams have looked awful one year and great the next? At the end of the day the difference between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team is just four wins, its really hard to gauge progress in the NFL more than any other league because the margin for error is so small.
I have to say Port, I knew if we missed the playoffs you might be more upset than anyone. This is because you’ve never been a believer and then when this team was 5-2 I saw your comments change for the first ever into a fan who believed in his team. Maybe instead of letting the disappointment and frustration at being duped, as we all were, color your opinion to the negative that small glimmer when you finally saw some light might be used as a cause for optimism?
To your credit you never bought into any of the previous signs of hope that myself and many others have over the years. Is it possible that Nix getting you to crack, even for a couple of weeks, might mean they are on to something? You are after all, a tough fan to sell. I know I took notice when you began to get optimistic. You MUST have seen something to make you do that, right?
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
by poz on Jan 9, 2012 5:37 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I’m not calling for heads after two seasons, but a third consecutive losing, last place season would be unacceptable. My point is that this regime hitched their fate to Fitzpatrick and they don’t get a do-over this late into the game. If Fitz fails, somebody else gets to pick the next guy. Chix had their chance and they went with Fitzpatrick. Nix basically re-affirmed that decision today. It’s time to start judging the wisdom of that decision. Hell, if Fitzpatrick tears up the league next year, I’ll be the first person to sing OBD’s praises. I don’t intend to sound negative or optimistic (on the rare occasions this bungling franchise gets some momentum going) and really I don’t see how it matters. Their play dictates my reaction to this team. I don’t think finishing the season 1-8 allows for much wiggle room in that regard. I’m doubtful they have the right guy, but we’re about to find out.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
totally agree with you Port
If Nix is not right and this team does not take a “big step” I will be calling for heads. Although I did like what I heard from Nix’s press conference about QB. If there is a guy they like they will take him, if not Fitz it is. I am not a big believer in Fitz, I do believe that if he has a good team around he may be able to lead us to the “dance”. however I am still hopeful they draft another QB.
what really got me more optimistic (pretty hard for me to be more than I usually am with the Bills haha). But he said that they will spend to the cap and will go after free agents hard. He said he wanted a big Calvin Johnson type of receiver. So let’s see if he does what he says. He addressed the team needs and besides QB, I think everyone can agree with his assessment. I think and hope with a good off season this team can take a big step into the playoffs.
But as Nix said we need 1-2 WR (depending on Stevie), 1-2 corners, 1-2 OLB/DE, and depth at OT and ILB. All he would have needed to say is we are drafting a QB this year and everyone would have totally agreed with everything he said. So I am very interested to see how it plays out because it looks like quite a list, but a very realistic approach to this team, and it shows he knows where he has talent and where he doesnt.
You are now Watching The Throne.
It's hard to read too much into what was said at the presser
I mean what’s he going to say about Fitz? Maybe the front office is delusional enough to believe that he’s going to get better, but if they’re not, there’s no advantage in saying it publicly. If we have our eye on a QB at #10 better not to let other teams in on it. Then you risk someone trading up ahead of you to get him. Saying “we’ll take a QB if we like one” is basically saying nothing.
As for the rest of it – sure, who wouldn’t want a Calvin Johnson-like receiver? I’m not sure where we expect to find one. And it isn’t exactly going out on a limb to say that we need pass rushers, depth at corner and depth on the O-line. As long we we don’t draft more running backs, the picks are going to go toward filling a hole somewhere – because there are holes all over.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes but
He made it sound like they are going to go after a big time WR either in the draft in the 1st round or in FA. He said they were going to be more aggressive because they need to take a big step next year. So I became increasingly optimistic when he said that. however yes with the last point he is pointing out the obvious, but he has to say it, he has to say what they feel the weaknesses of the team are even though we know, at least it proves he sees what we see.
You are now Watching The Throne.
what about the notion
that Nix and Gailey were building the rest of the team and – while thinking long-term – hitched their wagon to Fitz while this process was underway. Its not like they spent a ton of money relatively speaking on him. Both of Nix’s drafts and the picks he made seem to indicate he wanted to build a defense first while letting Gailey tinker with a subpar offense. As it stands, Gailey upheld his part of the bargain while Nix failed to on his end. The answer may very well have been to give Gailey all the firepower he needed on offense from the get-go but I would suspect they do not believe Fitz to be the true long-term answer but only a potential one. Why else would they go all defense two years in a row while trading away one of his best weapons in Evans?
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
and for the record
I do agree with you, a third last place finish would be bordering on flat out failure.
I understand you dont try to be optimistic or pessimistic but it seemed for a moment there, when this team was healthy, that we all saw something legit out there on the field. Thats why I dont expect a third last place finish.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
I am looking forward for this off season.
because of what Nix said about spending money and signing FAs. I could not imagine us finishing last if Nix does what he says he is going to do.
You are now Watching The Throne.
exactly, I agree
Imagine if this team does resign Stevie and drafts Blackmon or signs a Mario Manningham? It sounds like what he wants to do based on his comments.
I also think a switch back to the 4-3 could do this team a world of good. In that switch we’re really only missing one starter on defense as opposed to 2. Kelsay has proven he can start and stay healthy in a 4-3 and you surround Sheppard at MLB with the vets Barnett and Kirk Morrison – both proven 4-3 commodities. Dareus and Kyle together on the inside would instantly be one of the most imposing interiors in football.
Go out and draft a DE in the first two rounds who can start right away like Aaron Williams did as opposed to reaching heavily for a developmental guy at best in Torrel Troup.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
I remember those lazy Sundays two seasons ago, when the 43 Bills were getting carved up by the run. It might not be as smooth a transition as we hope.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 10, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
you are right
but we didnt have Dareus, Barnett, Morrison, Aaron Williams or George Wilson starting. All of which are upgrades against the run.
Im hopeful this defense is better than before for a 4-3. Maybe Schobel comes back haha
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
Wilson
I have not been impressed with him against the run. he is far from a sure tackler in open space.
You are now Watching The Throne.
he may not be as a good a tackler as Donte Whitner was
but the drop off is marginal compared to how much better he recognizes the play and takes angles to the ball in my opinion.
This even grates my passive cheese - LeClaire Bill
Oh I wasn't saying he is worse than Whitner
Just I have seen him miss a few times.
You are now Watching The Throne.
The fact that Wilson in run support is a problem...
…is more of an Indictment of the front 7.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 10, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Nix is trying to correct for a decades worth of wasted drafts and overpaid FAs. As long as there is steady improvement and the team is in the playoff hunt next season come December, Nix and Gailey are doing their job. Nix has had 2 drafts. One was eh, last year was quite solid. another good draft and improvement in record, i’d be more than willing to give them both a fourth year. Hell, we beat the pats once this year. things have got to be looking better than the last decade.
Next season they need to improve, but to say their jobs hang in the balance is a bit much. Injuries can cost a team a season real quick, and even after another solid draft, i don’t know if the team will have the depth needed to survive multiple injuries at key positions.
Gimme a break.
Nix is trying to correct for a decades worth of wasted drafts and overpaid FAs
We drafted plenty of good players, but didn’t pay them and let them get away.
Antoine Winfield
Nate Clements
Pat Williams
Eric Moulds
Bruce Smith
Jabari Greer
Jason Peters
We have wasted first rounder after first rounders and an occaisional 2nd on RBs
Antowain Smith
Travis Henry
Willis McGahee
Marshawn Lynch
CJ Spiller
When you waste that many high draft picks on RBs, your logic needs to be questioned.
We have drafted plenty of good players and we haven’t had decades of wasted draft picks, more like some years here and there.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 11, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
One more season.
3 seasons are the official throw them under the bus time.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned one of the most obvious excuses for Chix
A lot of people on here are saying that most ofthe elite players on he team were from the previous regime. The fact that they forget though is that those players have now been in the league for 3-4 years and we’re expecting immediate impact from rookies(which we have gotten to an extent). Besides maybe Byrd, none of the “elite players” on our team were thought to be elite from their rookie year. After waitin and developing though Kyle Williams, Stevie Johnson, Fred Jackson, Levitre and Wood have all proven to be very good at least. I know that I am not alone in thinking that many of the players hat chix has drafted have that same potential and that’s with only two drafts(one of which was with most of he previous regimes info on players). After next year of seeing a full development of our first draft and an influx of new talent with this one, then we should be able to judge properly where this organization is headed. But so far, it looks above average.
Sorry for going on a rant, I didn’t mean o make it too long.
by TheHesterEffect on Jan 9, 2012 9:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
that wasnt too long, I have written page long comments....
But I agree with your point
You are now Watching The Throne.
Best post
Of this whole thread…..everyone is so darn impatient
Hmm
Isn’t that contingent on time spent waiting for results? I’ve been waiting for over a deacde, what constitutes impatience? You the yard stick? :)
Alll Things Considered Bill's Franchise Is Consistent:)
by buffalobacker on Jan 9, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
decade
Alll Things Considered Bill's Franchise Is Consistent:)
by buffalobacker on Jan 9, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
You can't throw this regime
In with the ones of the past. The teams with sustained success have continuity in their franchise, front office, coaching, etc. I am saying more patience with THIS group. I could be wrong, but Buddy just came out and laid on the table what we have been talking about. He didn’t shy away, he didn’t mince words, he was straight forward and forth coming. This process does take some time, but I appreciate someone being straight up. He knows what the holes are, he has built some stability in a lot of areas, and now he has to put the pieces in place for the push to the playoffs. I give them 2 more years unless next year is a total disaster. If he doesn’t sign anyone this offseason and good to average players walk away, then the blame is on him. We shall see.
This Regime
Sorry but I can and do blame FO for yrs of loses. This regime is just another in a line of new regimes. But you enjoy this regime, by all means their doing better than past regimes, great.
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 10, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Go all in
If this is truely the last stand for this regime then why not go all in on this draft. Make some crazy trades and spend some money in free agency. I know it would bring a big buzz back intom the community which would sell a ton more tickets.
Confucius says . . .
. . . man on toilet, high on pot.
TO HELL AND BACK BABY THATS WHAT TEAMS GOING TO EXPERIENCE WHEN THEY COME TO PLAY TO BUFFALO IM ON A HIGH WAYYYY TO HELLLL ROCK ON BILLS THE WAGON IS ABOUT TO TAKE OF
-abayarde
Tom's Says
Not all toilets are high. So that isn’t so high on pot. :)
The Sum Of A Franchise Is Directly Proportionate To The Talent Of Franchise's QB. Get A QB OBD!
by buffalobacker on Jan 10, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I've never understood why Gailey and Nix get so much heat for trying to make Trent Edwards work when they got here.
The first red flag was a huge one. Nix indicated that the Trent Edwards Experience was a much better option than the fan base, in their supposed lay ignorance, could ever know. He believed Edwards (Trent Edwards!) could be “coached” into being a success. Bills’ fans had seen plenty of Edwards and knew he was not talented enough to play regularly in the NFL
We have seen Gailey turn other players who languished on Jauron’s roster into very good players in his system.
Roscoe Parrish
Stevie Johnson
Fred Jackson
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Why is it such a stretch to see why they “would have the audacity” to think they could improve Trent too? I still have no problem with them giving him a chance since he had much more upside than Fitz. There was a time when Trent had shown just as many “flashes” of talent as the players listed above.
I give them credit for cutting the ties with Trent when they did. They knew it would exposure their failure on that project, but they didn’t try to buoy him by keeping him on the roster when they realized he’d lost his moxie.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
by lonestar_ak on Jan 11, 2012 1:52 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I do believe in CHIX. They have been mostly good drafters and talent evaluators
Look at Dan Snyder and the Redskins. Guy goes out an spends millions upon millions on FA guys who are supposed to deliver at least a playoff team and it never happens. Bottom line is you have to draft FOOTBALL players who can also THINK and be TEAM guys, not just some guys who were really good in college but had an already great supporting cast around them that hides their deficiencies or character flaws. OBD has gotten great production in picks 4-7 the past few years, so we know how to find value. I would argue that signing Barnett was in the top 5 FA additions for any team in the entire NFL last year. While it would be great, no way I see Vincent Jackson is coming here — maybe Manningham. Pass rusher and LT are our two priorities next year. I’m not countin on ever seeing Merriman healthy again, but if we get Meatball back and add one big motor on D next year to go w/ Dareus, that makes everyone better on D — including Florence!!
by AlwaysaBillinPhilly on Jan 11, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Why is it such a stretch to see why they "would have the audacity" to think they could improve Trent too?
Trent is one of those things that doesn’t bother me.
No one realized for sure just how damaged a package of goods he was from Adrian Wilson’s clock cleaning until they gave it a try.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 11, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
sadly but yes
he was starting to play good and then….boom! after that hit he was a different player
Ay Ay Ay Ayyyyy
by BuffaloBillsBigestFan on Jan 12, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
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