An idea to consider
by suteck on Feb 1, 2012 8:51 PM EST
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PrintI am not sure how this will turn out, but, I have an idea.
There are many people who feel that they are smarter then our current GM and could do a better job. I am not one of those people. We have the benefit of hindsight and lots of second guessing. Running a team is 2 things they do not have, at all. I don't understand what so many expect them to achieve in 2 short years. I think everyone agrees that we can not get free agents to come here that are top tier game changers. This has been a losing team for over a decade and before a player wants to spend time here (unless he is motivated by cash, and in that case, we don't want him), they want a chance at the playoffs and everyone's goal, the Super Bowl. That means that the draft and rookie free agents are the only way we can build a team.
Here is what I propose for those who really believe they can do better. Fantasy draft. When Buffalo is on the clock, those who think they can do better will list their players for the draft. You can only choose guys who haven't been chosen yet. This is an ongoing fantasy, so, you would keep track of how good you do. You can sign free agent rookies too, but, before real games are played, in the preseason. You would keep track of them, like you would in any fantasy football league you belong to. A moderator would keep secondary track and post the results. Lets see how good you really are.
I know for those who wanted a QB last year, all but Dalton are currently sitting on the pine (not including first round QB's because we took Dareus), so, your draft would be judged as ineffective because he can't beat out a starter in front of him. If this keeps going for a few years, perhaps we all could gain some insight insofar as how hard it really is to draft kids and see how well they do. So, what say you? Fantasy draft for the next 3 or 4 years? Rules would have to be worked out.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Well
To be fair the franchise has been more than two yrs removed from good. I know, new regime, that excuse has ruled for decades lets get a new excuse, or better yet see it for what it is and stop giving OBD carte blanc regarding accountability. I agree FO is paid to do this job , like a job. I’m just a fan, a fan waiting impatiently for a decade to see Buffalo represent. If owqner can’t spot/pay for GM than he gets what he pays for, not my responsibilty. My hobby is rooting for Bill’s which is a job in its self:)
No Worries. All Good.
I said
IF you feel you can do better, then put it on paper and lets keep track. No one is forcing anyone to do it. I won’t do it b/c I don’t pretend to know what they go through. It might be fun to see who can do better and who fails.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
I like the idea but honestly, players turn out the way they do most times because of the teams. Coaching, talent, and organizational stability all play huge roles in player development.
Look at a guy like Wes Welker. He was a simple return man without much WR ability in Miami. He goes to New England and suddenly he’s one of their all-time greats.
So as much as we all say a guy like Orakpo was a better choice than Maybin…Orakpo might have failed in a Bills uniform, too.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 3, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
I'm game
I like the idea. I was considering doing a Fantasy Franchise league myself. But doing it for college players in each draft would be interesting. Only doing it while Buffalo is on the clock, with only the available draft picks being the ones to choose from. If your willing to run it, i’ll give you my e-mail address and we’ll see after 5 or 6 seasons whom is the better “GM”.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Feb 1, 2012 11:15 PM EST reply actions
I won't be in it.
I know I am not smart enough. I don’t watch college ball. However, if it is okay with Brian and others want to do it, I see if I can help out. Lets see how the others feel about it.
So, what say you fellow Rumblers?
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
it's not that easy
a good GM not only gets good players…. he gets good coaches as well…. he makes sure that the players he drafted succeed….
how will you judge if a player who I was high on has busted because of poor coaching or succeeded because of his talent…
what if I am a horrible GM but I finally pick one gem… how will you judge how this player will perform surrounded by sub-par talent…. what if i am a good GM… how much more my player will perform when surrounded by talent I put together none of whom are playing together…
There are many people who feel that they are smarter then our current GM and could do a better job.
I think exactly 0 people on this board think that. That being said, there is no problem with judging a GM based on the product he puts on the field, and it’s become very disheartening the number of people that want to rag on others for doing so. It really is okay to question his moves. I don’t think I’d make a better president of the USA, so does that mean I have no right to question moves that he makes? Of course not, that’s ludicrous, and so is the idea that we should all just be happy with what Nix has done so far.
Patience, yes. Acceptance, no.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
this was going to be pretty much exactly what i typed.
am i a better actor than brad pitt? ummm no. of course not. does that mean i have to like every movie he makes by default? i cant ever form an objective opinion of his acting in a given movie because i myself am not a professional actor?
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
I disagree
I think there are some that by there comments think they are smarter and could do a better job than Nix.
I also would say that there are exactly 0 people on this board that want to rag on other posters for judging Nix based on the product he puts on the field. It never bothers me when others post there points of disagreement with Nix or Chan. It seems to me that most of these posts that I reply back to, end up being one or two valid points mixed in with 3-4 (highly speculative, totaly unfair, major hindsight driven or hyped up) points. They are totaly within their rights to feel how they feel and post them how they see fit as are others within their rights to point out if these points are in there oppinion unfair. I have no problem with judging CHIX on there decisions and moves, but there are a lot of posts that insinuate that Nix or Chan have no sense or are ignorant based on the fact that they did not do what “they” thought was an obvious thing to do. When a post insinuates that Nix is ignorant, dumb, or without sense, then IMO the author is insinuating that they could do a better job as we all have a little sense.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
by jbbillfan on Feb 2, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but I’m separating posts made out of frustration (we all post things that are exaggerated to prove a point) from people actually feeling like Nix is a dumb person. I defy you to find someone who actually thinks that they are smarter (in a football team-building or business sense) than Nix, who’s been in the league for decades. And the term “exactly 0 people” was hyperbolic to make a point. Maybe there are a few fringe posters that do. But this post is not targeted at them, it’s target at the majority of posters that have been complaining about Nix for the past few months based on his moves and the direction of the team.
Also, please explain to me how judging decision based on hind sight is wrong. A GM should have enough foresight to make good decisions so that the hindsight looks fine.
And I am not sure how you can say 0 people rag on posters for judging Nix based on the last two miserable seasons…this post that we’re commenting on starts with a line that does so. The entire thought process of “you can’t use hindsight to judge our GM, unless you present your plan for building the team” doesn’t make any sense, for reasons outlined in my last post.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
It is wrong
to judge out of hindsight because no one knows how a person will turn out years later. This exercise would prove my point. Put your name to a list of guys they could have drafted in the spot they were in, at the time they chose them, and see how they do. It is no different then fantasy football. No different at all.
The Fantasy Draft would be just that. If you were the GM, who would you take at that spot. Der would take Tannehill in round 1. That’s fine. Then we sit and watch how he develops. I have read how some have been here years, so, if you have been here years, why not do it? You would have access to the same info the coaches have without the benefit of hindsight. Lets see how anyone does with equal footing.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
If Der took Tannehill in round one, and a few years from now we discover that he failed miserably and was a bad pick up, then Der made a bad decision. If he were a GM and made that call, in three years, using hindsight, we could say it was a bad decision. If his time as GM had more of those than good decisions, which resulted in the team not being good, then he is a bad GM. There is no other way to judge someone’s job performance than using hind sight.
I think your idea is a good one for people who follow the draft, just not for the reasons you put forth. I’m not going to take part for two reasons. The first is that I don’t know anything about any college players. The second is because I am not a GM, and so it is not my job to scout well and put together a good football team. It is Nix’s, and he will and should be judged accordingly.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
by stetzwebs on Feb 2, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
to judge out of hindsight because no one knows how a person will turn out years later
dude, thats buddy nix’s job though. this is what scouts are paid for. we as a fanbase have every right to criticize a guy if he makes bad decision after bad decision, even if its in hindsight.
if it really was so impossible to figure out what college players would turn into good pros then scouting departments wouldnt exist, and the 6th round of the draft would produce just as many pro bowlers as the 1st.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Question@boomsauce
Have you seen movie "moneyball’? Dude took over GM job and ignored scouts opinions and used whiz kids stats to draft and obtain FA players , worked out nicely for GM. I quess I’m trying to say its all a crap shoot and we should look at new ways to evaluate talent rather than rely on old school scouts. Moneyball was good flick by the way.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 2, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
huh? what?
honestly i have no idea whether that post was sarcastic or serious, or if u flipped back and forth.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Huh? What?
Serious. I think scouts are overrated. You think their important. you’d have to see movie to get my point so I apoligize for my misleading post, meant no sarcasm. Just think we value/ judge talent poorly is all.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 2, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
you cant just make up the rules as we go along
First you say
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“I think exactly 0 people on this board think that.”
Then you say
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“Yes, but I’m separating posts made out of frustration (we all post things that are exaggerated to prove a point) from people actually feeling like Nix is a dumb person.”
I am sorry, my comment was in response to what you said, not to what you meant to say. There is no way I could have known what you meant to say.
You are right if put to a poll there would be very few that would say they were smarter and could do a better job than Nix. IMO though there are many posts on a daily basis that insinuate that they think they could based on there comments. I think this is why suteck made this post. Not to rag on anyone, which he did not do by the way.
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“There are many people who feel that they are smarter then our current GM and could do a better job.”
It seems that suteck simply stated an oppinion of what he thinks (based on reading a lot of comments on this blog) a lot of members think in regaurds to our current GM. This is an oppinion that I happen to agree with, but in no way does the post come off as ragging. Those are your words.
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" it’s become very disheartening the number of people that want to rag on others for doing so."
Just because someone posts an oppinion that differs from yours does not make it ragging. There was nothing negative about this post. He simply offered an idea on how members that think they could do a better job than Nix could prove or disprove there smarts.
I am not sure how you think you know who this post is targeting when the auther states clearly in the first sentence that his target is those posters that think they are smarter and could do a better job than Nix.
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" But this post is not targeted at them, it’s target at the majority of posters that have been complaining about Nix for the past few months based on his moves and the direction of the team."
In reguards to judging in hind sight, I have no problem with it. We all do it to some extent, and it is a tool that should be used. What I said was “major hind sight”. I should have been more clear, but what I meant was when people take something that was widely accepted as a good decision at the time and then through an accumulation of factors is proven to have been wrong, when the odds were high that the original decision could of and should have been the right decision. An example would be those who thoght Nix should have had the foresight to know that we would lose both Wood, and Urbick, and therefor should have known to keep Hangartner around. Nix took a calculated risk that would have been right nine out of ten times, but this year was wrong. I would consider this “major hind sight” but several posters saw fit to include it in there list of reasons why they think Nix stinks at that time. I also think when using hind sight we have to be careful not to forget that if the same judgment was used on another GM or coach we might find out that none of us are perfect. If we use hind sight to establish that Nix has made 10 mistakes over the past two years then lets not forget that he made 1000 good choices during that same time period many of which we will never know about that has to be taken into consideration. Nix is not perfect and if we are going to use hind sight, no one is. So lets use some ballance and understand that yes he has made some mistakes, but it is unfair for us to think that he is worse then others that we possibly dont judge as crutially.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
by jbbillfan on Feb 3, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
REC'd
Very well stated and that was my intent. It was a fun way to see how smart they really are giving the same information Nix and Company have.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
What rules? I didn’t change any rules. I was clarifying the hyperbole.
Also, I am fine with people with differing opinions. I welcome them. This post came off, to me, as ragging on people for “thinking they’re smarter than Nix” which is a sarcastic and somewhat demeaning way to start a post like this, in my opinion. And I commented on that.
And in my eyes, there’s no difference between major hindsight and hindsight as you’ve described them. The GM has to get most of the calls right, whether they’re obvious good decisions at the time or not.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
YOU CAN'T
ever predict how a guy will turn out. Even the best scouts know that. Why is that so hard for you to accept? You HOPE that money won’t change them. You HOPE they can stay healthy. You HOPE they don’t fall into a bad crowd. Those are all things that no one can control.
When the Bills selected Mike Williams, everyone said he was the better AND SAFER bet then Bryant. All the scouts agreed.
Even Maybin, the much maligned one, was only picked 5 spots higher then he would have had the Bills not selected him. Wash said they were going to take whoever the Bills didn’t. All teams make mistakes based on variables that no one can control. And that is my point. How can you crucify anybody, even the GM for a pick or signing that was right at the time and the guy blows up later on? How a kid turns out is beyond what you, me, Nix, the best GM, even the kid himself, can ever know.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
Why is that so hard for you to accept?
I do and always have accepted that.
Let me ask this, then. If we can’t judge a GM by the decisions he makes, and therefore on the product he puts on the field (because they are clearly connected), what can we use to judge the job he’s doing?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
You focus on what he IS doing
When Marv was in charge, he made quite a few errors, clear errors that everyone said were obvious. Nix hasn’t made those glaring errors. We might not agree with some choices, but, in every decision he made, there was a clear thought behind that.
Spiller was chosen for 2 reasons: 1 he could be Chris johnson 2.0 and Lynch was looking at a suspension of a year if he got in more trouble. To me, even though I HATED the pick, I could understand it.
Troup was supposed to be our NT. His health coupled with Kyle Williams turning into an all pro derailed those plans.
The change to the 3-4 was ill advised. If you want to rag on him about how dumb it was to expect Kelsey and Schobel to be OLB, that you have every right. And now, to switch back, is even more telling. Although, Kelsey turned in his best year as a pro last year. This team was terrible after DJ left, they had no athleticism, too small, to weak at the point of attack, just terrible. That takes time to fix.
I guess I wouldn’t mind it so much if people actually said what they’d do differently, in reality. doing 50 trades to get 7 number 1 draft choices isn’t reality (but, can be done on Madden).
If people focused on stuff he actually did wrong, I don’t think anyone would mind. But, to go gun ho over stuff that hasn’t happened yet to me, is insanity. How can someone put up a post about how far behind the defense will be now when we haven’t yet seen a down. And it is a pretty well known fact that the 3-4 is harder to play then the 4-3. Plenty of players have said the 4-3, the attack style that Wanny plans to run, is pretty easy to pick up.
People never seem to give him, or Chan credit for cutting loss of dead space. They thought Trent Edwards was going to be a good QB. They admitted they were wrong and let him go. Same with Green. They said Poz isn’t worth that much cash and let him go. They ended up with a better player in Barnett. If Stevie walks, which is expected based on what he said today, people will freak. Personally, I will wait until I see his plan B. No one should freak out at every little thing he does. Football isn’t created in one day, but, it sure is destroyed in a day (Thurman, Smith, Reed all leaving was hard). It takes YEARS to build a winner. Even the great Bills teams of the 90’s, in the 80’s were hard to watch sometimes, and that was with Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Smith, Talley etc.
I guess I am saying is be realistic in what is expected from our favorite team.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
We all think we’re realistic in our expectations. I happen to think I am. I haven’t said anything about the 4-3, personally. My original point is that the post comes off as “if you think he’s not doing a good job, then you must think you’re smarter than he is and could do a better job.” And that is almost never the case.
As I’ve said, I don’t need to say exactly what I would do differently, I’m not the GM. I can judge his decisions on how they pan out. If they don’t, they were bad decisions. There may be reasons to argue that a decision was the best of a bad situation, I will listen to that argument, but overall Nix’s job is to produce a winner. He has not done that, and we have every right to criticize his decisions for that reason. Come to think of it, we can also criticize when we are winning, but they’ll be fewer people willing to do that.
People don’t give him credit for the good decisions enough, I agree with that. But we are a bad football team, and until that changes, the overall opinion will be negative.
If people focused on stuff he actually did wrong, I don’t think anyone would mind.
For the most part, we do. The argument complaining about the switch to the 4-3 is not that it’s a bad idea to switch to the 4-3, but that it was a bad idea, in hindsight, to switch to the 3-4 to begin with. That’s a completely legitimate complaint, and it speaks to the job Nix is doing and the direction he’s leading the franchise.
I’m honestly, not sure from your post what you actually think a good measurement of the GM’s job performance is, if it’s not how good the team is. I am a very realistic person, and fall into neither the pessimistic nor the optimistic camps that sometimes crop up on this site. However, I am able to see that Nix has made a series of poor performances that, I am afraid, will keep us down for a longer period of time as a franchise. However, I judge him based on decisions he’s made and where the team is right now. They are not winners, and I feel that ending the year 1-8 is a sad indication that Nix has made bad choices. What would I have done differently? I don’t know, but I’m not a GM, so it’s not my job to know.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
You said:
I don’t know, but I’m not a GM, so it’s not my job to know.
My contention is that if you don’t know, how can you judge? It’d be like me telling a doctor who failed an operation why he did it wrong, if I am not a doctor. Or a car repair person whose repair didn’t turn out as you expected and you are gonna tell him how to do his job.
I guess if you want to attack a person for a job poorly done that is based on how you feel about it and not based on actual facts, then you should have to qualify your decision and prove how he did it wrong.
It is one thing to say Marv Levy blew the Whitner pick because he picked him way to early. It was a poor pick. It is another to say "Marv sucks at being a GM. Or say "Nix shouldn’t have chosen Spiller because we have too many holes. As opposed to “Nix is the worse GM at evaluating talent.”
I guess I am from a time where if you want to say something negative, you have to explain why and substantiate it with facts.
I see it as Ralph apologized for his mistakes running the team, what more can he do? Nix and Chan inherited a bad team. It takes years to fix what has been broken for over a decade. There is no quick fix here, not if it is done right. Nix and Chan are doing the best they can, and the product does look better. Ralph is the only one who can be held accountable for the last decade, and he already said he blew it. I really believe he wants to win a super bowl before he dies.
I am not saying you, but, in the few weeks that I have been here, I have seen some pretty insulting posts that made me feel like I was reading something a teenage girl on the rag might say….
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
My contention is that if you don’t know, how can you judge?
I’ve explained this several times already.
It’d be like me telling a doctor who failed an operation why he did it wrong, if I am not a doctor. Or a car repair person whose repair didn’t turn out as you expected and you are gonna tell him how to do his job.
No, it would be like 65% of the patients a doctor sees dying on his watch. Wouldn’t you know he wasn’t a good doctor, despite having no medical training?
I guess if you want to attack a person for a job poorly done that is based on how you feel about it and not based on actual facts, then you should have to qualify your decision and prove how he did it wrong.
You are really taking this all out of context. It’s not just a “gut feeling”. The complaints come from watching the team on the field, knowing our record, our rankings, etc. Those are all facts.
It is one thing to say Marv Levy blew the Whitner pick because he picked him way to early. It was a poor pick. It is another to say "Marv sucks at being a GM. Or say "Nix shouldn’t have chosen Spiller because we have too many holes. As opposed to "Nix is the worse GM at evaluating talent."
All true, but again, no one is saying that one decision makes or breaks Nix’s tenure, so I’m not sure where this comes from. Again, the complaints are more often than not based on the results of decisions, not from the actual decisions themselves.
You seem to be really, really, really missing the point of everything I’m saying. You keep insinuating that people who complain about Nix’s decision aren’t using facts, and that’s just inaccurate. The 10-22 record is a fact. Our terrible rankings are a fact. Our lack of depth is a fact. Our 1-8 finish is a fact. To think he’s not doing a good job DOES NOT require that we have a plan to do a better job. If you disagree with that statement, then fine, but I think you are wrong. Grossly wrong.
Another thing: No one doubts he’s doing ‘the best he can". Though that’s completely irrelevant to how good a job he’s doing, since his best might just not be that good.
I am not saying you, but, in the few weeks that I have been here, I have seen some pretty insulting posts that made me feel like I was reading something a teenage girl on the rag might say….
I do agree with this, but there are very few of them, and the more dedicated and regular of us simply ignore them. When you see them, you should call them out specifically. It sounds to me that when you start a post with “people think they are smarter than Nix” that you are calling out the people who have complaints. We should all have complaints about things he’s done. He’s certainly not perfect. The trick is to make more good decisions than bad ones. Has he done that? I don’t know. I happen to not think so, you might think so, or you might just want to wait longer to see if they’re good or bad. That’s completely legitimate. I also am waiting longer, which is why I don’t complain about the job he’s doing in general, and continue to vote “Not Sure” in the Approval Poll month in and month out.
Sorry for rambling. It’s just that the idea that we either accept the job he’s doing since we’re not GMs and “he’s trying his best”, or we think we are smarter than he is or better at the job, which is what your suggestion reads like to me (whether you mean it that way or not) is crazy to me.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
calling me crazy huh?
Just kidding. You said in a later post that you didn’t see the real negative posts that this was in response to. Since you didn’t see how condescending they were, you can’t really say much.
So, lets agree to disagree and keep an eye out for those posts that unrealistically attack Nix
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
Yeah, I actually tend to ignore posts that, to me, come across as unrealistic. I guess posts that call for Nix’s job or imply that the poster is smarter than Nix would fall into that category. I just don’t want people trying to silence the negative opinion because it’s negative.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
figure of speech about the rules
We agree, people should be able to post opposing views. It is part of what makes this site great.
I will have to agree to disagree that this post comes off as ragging. I just dont see it.
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“And in my eyes, there’s no difference between major hindsight and hindsight as you’ve described them. The GM has to get most of the calls right, whether they’re obvious good decisions at the time or not.”
IMO Nix is getting most of the calls right. Surely he makes 1-2 decisions a day which would be over 1000 in the past two years. so if he messed up on 20 of those that is a 98% success rate. Just pulling some numbers out of my rear, which is funny when you read my sig. but my point is it is easy to see the black dot on a big white sheet of paper. It is just natural to look at the mistakes, but if we are using hind sight then all GM’s are messing up.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
But that take is completely ignoring the magnitude of the decisions. We’re not talking about the dozens of minor decisions he makes every day. If he only gets ten decisions wrong in two years, but they’re the ten most important, he’s a bad GM.
Yes, all GMs mess up. In fact, they do it routinely. However, Some GMs are better than others, and put together better products, etc. So I’m not sure what your point is there.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
I see your point about the magnitude of the decisions
and I agree with you that a GM could get 98% of his decisions right but if the 2% he messed up were the most crutial then he would be a bad GM. This does not mean though that some posters on this site dont pile on when making thier list of Nix mistakes with both crutial, and uncrutial mistakes. I feel like I have drifted way off subject here bc my problem is not with those who judge Nix for his mistakes my problem is when they make it personal by saying things like Nix stinks, Nix does not have a clue, Nix is ignorant, or that Nix does not make any sense. All these types of comments insinuate that they are smarter then Nix and could have done a better job then he is doing by personally insulting him. One would have to assume that someone that makes a comment like that thinks that they know best, compared to a comment that just judges Nix for a mistake. I personaly read several of these comments a day by more than just a few posters, so I agree with the author of this post that there are a bunch of members of this site that think they know better than Nix.
Anyway I enjoyed the discusion, and as fellow Bills fans I know we can agree about one thing. Here’s to a mistake free and winning record in 2012.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
Haha, thanks. I guess I just don’t see the same posts you do, or I don’t register them. Yes, anyone who insinuates that Nix is not a smart man, or that they would make a better GM, is certainly not completely with it. But I just don’t see those posts like you do, it seems. Most of the posts I see point to specific decisions he’s made about the state of the team.
Anyway, as of right now, we’re all tied for first place in 2012. Here’s to hoping we stay there.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Rec'd
Very true. There are a ton of posts pertaining to how bad Chix is. This way, we set up a little contest and see how things would turn out if you were the GM. All you can do is pick the guys. That’s it.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
But no one IS the GM. Nix is. This is what we’re not communicating well. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with his decisions and saying so. There’s nothing wrong with looking at his decisions over the pat two years and seeing which ones panned out and which ones didn’t and judging his job performance. There is literally no other way to do it.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
This "contest"
is only for people who feel they are good enough to be a scout. The problem that I have with most of the hindsight people is that it is nearly impossible to predict how a kid will turn out. Sometimes I get the feeling that people don’t respect that. No one, no matter how good they are at their job, can predict how a kid will turn out in 4 years.
I am sure that others would want to see those who claim to know a lot about guys and who watch film and are so vocal years later how “right they were” to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. I think it would be fun to see how good someone is, or isn’t at this. Hindsight makes all the picks too easy.
If a person has a 65% success rate and they say something to me about drafting, I’d put a lot more stock in that then a fan that has a 20% success rate. I really don’t see the big deal. Many of you play fantasy football right? So, why not fantasy draft? Again, I wouldn’t do it because I don’t follow college sports. I have been involved in plenty of things professionally and trying to predict how a living person responds is very very hard. This would be a good way to show us how good you are, or aren’t. It would be fun.
To answer your other post, if Der takes Tannehill and he flops badly in 2 years, but, he hits on 65% of his other draft picks, then he’s still a good GM. I think it’d be fun to do that.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
As I said to your other post, I like your idea. I think people will do it, and I think people have done it in the past. My contention came from your opening sentiment that the reason to do this is because we think we make a better GM than Nix. I don’t have any misconception that I would make a better GM than he is. However, that’s not the same thing as disagreeing with him, and judging his job performance based on the state of the team. Those two things can be reconciled.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
When Buffalo is on the clock, those who think they can do better will list their players for the draft
i wouldve done that anyway. i have no reservations in showing my picks from last year:
1) patrick peterson, taken by the cardinals at 5
2) trade down to the highest bidder, that pick had big time value with andy dalton still on the board
3) jah reid OT, taken by the ravens towards the bottom of the third round
4) sam acho OLB, taken by the cardinals three picks after we took searcy. he had 7 sacks and 4 forced fumbles, by the way
after that i left the house to go out drinking, but 3 names that i assure you wouldve been bills based on how that draft fell: chris white LB (hes on the team), richard sherman CB (seattle got him in the late 5th, and he was the best rookie DB in 2011 by a lot), and henry hynoski FB (undrafted to the giants)
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
okay
So, what is the harm in tracking their careers? This would be like a fantasy draft. You watch them for years and see who ends up being good and who ends up being bad. I think it is much harder then many make it out to be. I say, fine, if you want to act like a GM, put it down and lets track it and see how well you do. Hey, who knows, if you do a good job, you can forward this to the teams and maybe they will offer you a scouting job. There is nothing wrong with turning your hobby into a job.
There are plenty of ways this could work and be fun. It would tie you to who you pick and let others see how you do and it would show others how hard it is to predict how someone can turn out years later.
As I said, you’d have to do what they do. You can’t trade your pick because they didn’t. So, you have Peterson, Reid and Acho. That’s it. By putting it in writing, everyone can see what you can and can’t say about hindsight years later.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
if you do a good job, you can forward this to the teams and maybe they will offer you a scouting job
ill go out on a limb and say there is a 0% chance of that happening, regardless of how good any of us are at doing this.
im not even sure what ur arguing here. all ive done is exactly what u said to in your original post, for the simple reason that i do it already anyway… either way its kind of pointless as a group exercise, its not like anyone on earth will care in 4 years what my or any other fans draft would have looked like for the bills in 2011.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
Why do you say 0?
How do you think people get these jobs? A track record can go pretty far.
How is it pointless? You and some others think it is so easy. I say it is brutally hard. All I read on here is how bad Nix is, how he can’t do his job blah blah blah.
When I first saw this site, it was a link off of yahoo sports. I assumed that people here would know about football and that there would be people who are positive and negative. I didn’t expect a site with such a status as the chief place to go on a site like yahoo sports to have so many negative people who just whine about anything the guy does. If I didn’t know better, I’d swear I was talking to a few teens who are on the rag for the first time. To make sure we are clear, I enjoy 90% of the posts on here. But, some of these posts are so argumentative for the sake of that way. Things that can’t be answered until we start play anyways. A guy posts an article about defense and there are guys question the meaning of every little choice he made. It is as i’d say the sky is blue and I’d get 3 responses with “no, the sky is black, red, white etc” for the sake of it.
It is one thing to have a conversation going about something, even if it is heated, it is another to badger anyone when there isn’t any answer yet. There were dozens of comments how the defense will be behind now because we are switching to a 4-3, and really, no one knows that until they go into training camp. Yet, some badger and badger with no intent but to badger.
It was my idea to set up this so that instead of just badgering for the sake of it, if you have a successful rating in picking people, then your words actually hold credence.
Lastly, if it was so easy to scout and predict how young men will turn out in 3-5 years, we’d never have a miss. The fact is, NO ONE, not a scout out there, anywhere in the world, including here, gets every pick right. Didn’t Belichick say if you hit on 50% that you are doing good? So far, in the 2 years Nix has been here, they have hit on over 50% of their picks, yet, they get no credit for that. This past draft was a slam dunk.
I am the kind of guy that believes you get more with an ounce of sugar then a liter of vinegar. Does anyone ever speak good of anyone on this site? Brian tries to build camaraderie amongst us, but, all I see are nitpick after nitpick and people getting bashed for stuff that hasn’t even happened yet. I guess I am ranting now…
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
lol
Read my sig,:) Don’t take it so serious my friend. People are different in all things, never will you see everyone agree on anything.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 2, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
let me start off by saying that im not going to read all of that. i read the beginning and the end, and thats enough for me to respond thoughtfully.
firstly, allow me to say that i am actually a pretty optimistic bills fan, and in general i think buddy nix is doing a pretty good job getting talent onto this roster. but the world is not black and white. just because nix has added some good players in 2 offseasons does not mean he is doing an amazing job and everything is rosy.
secondly, a site like this, with this kind of discussion and thought, inherently requires us to nitpick. what else would we talk about all day? this site would be a snoozer if every single person thought nix was a perfect GM and chan was an amazing coach and the bills were super bowl bound etc etc. this site doesnt exist if we dont go in depth and have our disagreements.
thirdly, and i cant speak for anyone else on this site, but i do not think being a GM is so easy. i would kindly ask you not to put words in my mouth. i think it is an insanely difficult job, but that does not mean that nix cant be held to a high standard. president of the US is a pretty difficult job that very few people are qualified for, but we the american people have every right to be critical of obama or whoever else is in office. to a similar (albeit much much less important) point, NFL GM is a very tough job but we as a fan base have every right to be critical if we think the guys made a bad choice
fourthly, nfl scouts get their jobs by working from the bottom up or by knowing somebody. either way, you have to have credentials. high school coach, former college player, whatever. your entire life had to have been football (real football, not internet discussions on sbnation). nfl is big time business. teams dont mess around with there personnel people.
fifthly, and finally, what did i do to warrant this rant exactly? im the only person in your thread to have actually, you know, done what u asked for in any capacity in the main post, and i get lambasted. mmk
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
I did read your entire post and will respond thoughtfully
:)
You didn’t do anything actually. I am sorry if you took it personal. It was not a rant specifically towards you or anyone. I didn’t mean for you or anyone to think it was meant just for you. I have seen some pretty brutal things said to each other and don’t get why people do it.
Again, when I joined, I thought as a relay site from yahoo that people would be more respectful to each other. With the exception of the crazy hatred for Chris Chase, most of the other comments on yahoo are usually somewhat not so nit-picky and so gun ho to be aggressive towards others.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
absurd
Criticism of a GM from the fan base has absolutely nothing to do with being “smarter” or pipe dreams about working in an executive position in an alien occupational field. Who individual fans, collective fan bases, the media, Mel Kiper, blog people, other teams, etc would have drafted in random spots over the years is so irrelevant that it’s not worth words. Nix has avery unique, difficult job to do, and he is INDEED measured with the power of hindsight. It’s his JOB to have foresight and as the returns on his stock picks continue to come in below standard indexes, it is prefectly reasonable for fans to want to pine for a new broker.
Too many of Nix’s defenders base their arguments around excuses and worse, the childish defense that his job his hard and he’s “trying”. Defend Nix based on merit (ie- cost effective offensive line, works the waiver wire hard, decent rookie free agent track record). I’ll argue that the numerous failures of Nix outweigh these gains, but the excuses “Who would YOU have drafted?” and “It’s hard to sign free agents” and “Hindsight is 20/20” are pretty lame in my opinion. It’s a hard job- that’s why there are only 32 of them.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Feb 2, 2012 10:55 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Ever hear the statement
Don’t judge a person unless you walk a mile in his shoes? This is such a chance. Put your choices on paper for all to see and see how they turn out. I don’t see what the big deal is, unless you think your choices wouldn’t pan out either. I know I am not a scout or a better GM then anyone. I think it would be a fun exercise a few years down to road to see who you were high on that flamed out and who turned out okay. Then people can judge your picks on hindsight, or is that what bothers you, that they can then judge you as harshly as you judge others?
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
there are some here that do this already – Kasier is one so hopefully he’ll post his past drafts.
I think anything beyond the 3rd round is going to be tough because a lot of those players come from smaller schools or just don’t get on TV as much so i’m not sure that’d be realistic.
I bet if you did the first 3 rounds you’d get a lot of participation. You could easily create fanposts and keep track of it yourself if your really interested to find out.
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Feb 2, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
trades?
Can we make trades based upon a trade value chart that is agreed upon? If so, then I’m in. Add me to a list.
JLK
Just use the one on NFL.com, it’s the actual trade scale that every NFL team uses.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Feb 3, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
A. I’ve seen many comments from you in the same vein about second guessing and hindsight all within a month. With respect; how about something different?
B. I draft with the Bills every year, but only posted it last year (don’t know how to link)
C. I average grades from Mayock and Nawrocki, not my opinion. I am comfortable that they could outperform Nix. Comfortable, not a fact.
How about
people stop saying that they are smarter then the GM or how bad the GM is and I can stop that.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
Ahh
Nix a family member? :) Jk.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 2, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
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