Morning Joe! (Non-Political) Liberal vs. Conservative
by doctork44 on Feb 13, 2012 8:06 AM EST
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Good morning Rumblers,
Before you jump down my throat with the title of this thread, I must warn you that this isn't a discussion about politics, but more so how ones political beliefs can influence how they feel the Bills should proceed during this off season period. What I'm tempting to do is draw a connection between political beliefs and Bills off season moves. Mainly, because 1) this is the season for the Republican GOP and 2) there isn't really much to talk about.
Yesterday, I was reading a thread from our Buddy CanadianBillsFan, and the topic of his thread was called "Teams Can Carry Over Unused Cap Space". In that discussion, it was pretty evident that you had two distinct sides; the "Liberal" side and the "Conversative side". In politics, Liberals are labeled as "spenders" and Conservatives are labled as "cutters". I found it pretty interesting that those two sides exist in sports as well.
After the jump, are my defintions of a "Sports Liberal" and a "Sports Conservative". What I would like for you to do is ask yoursefl, what am I a "Sports Liberal" or a "Sports Conservative", and then figure out if there is a connection between your political beliefs. I don't expect many comments from a thread like this, because it can be a little too sensitive and I completely understand. But I don't write threads for comments, but mainly for people to think critically and explore some ideas that they may not have otherwise. It also will help answers questions on why you feel the Bills should do XYZ during this offseason. Then take a look at the teams that have been successful over the past decade, are they "Sports Liberal" or "Sports Conservative"? What are the Bills? How should they be operating in your opinion?
Sports Liberal-
a) Target Big Name Free Agents
b) Spend to the Cap
c) Try to Win Now
d) Hire Big Name Coaches
e) Draft Players from Big Name Schools
f) Trade draft picks
g) Rather Trade Up during the draft
h) Draft Skill Players in the 1st round of drafts
i) Prefers experienced Free Agent QB's
j) Believes in "another man trash, is another man treasure"
k) Offensivel and Defensively innovative
Sports Conservative-
a) Target middle-tier Free Agents
b) Cut bad salaries, and use that money to spend on free agents
c) Build your team through the draft over time
d) HIre Young, Inexpensive, Upcoming Coaches
e) Believe in finding talent at smaller schools
f) Don't trade draft picks
g) Rather trade back in drafts to accumulate picks
h) Draft OL and DL in the 1st round
i) Develops young QB's over time
j) focuses on retaining home grow talent
k) Offensively and Defensively Conservative
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Sports Libertarian
-Thinks the NFL draft isn’t rocket science
-Leans toward BPA drafting, regardless of position
-Would rather let the draft come to them
-Prefers spending in FA
-Would rather not overpay for his own FA’s
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
a few more
-Hates Roger Goodell for mediling beyond his constitutional perameters.
-Does not think his team should have to be deployed outside of their conference.
-Opposes any redistribution of wealth at the league level.
This was a joke dont take it serious!!
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
- Thinks Roger God-dell does not deserve a $20 mill annual paycheck.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Feb 13, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I could be both when it is beneficial
I would spend on the big name free agents if it would put the tam over the “hump”. Mid tier free agents are the ones who will be there as injuries happen.
Fat, Drunk, & Stupid is No way to go through life.
Its interesting you say that
I was considering putting a combination of both…But I figured I wouldn’t. Mainly, because in politics we all are forced to pick a side, wheter we agree with everything or not…So to keep up with the theme, I just decided to have one or the other.
You don't always have to pick a side
Actually, in politics I’m a raging Centrist who is a strong believer in moderation. I vote for both parties depending on the issues at hand and the quality of the candidates. If there is anything to your designation of the approaches to building an NFL team as “Liberal” and “Conservative,” I would again fall in the middle. For example, I’m against paying big bucks for big name Free Agents, but I would also like to see the Bills get more aggressive in FA than they have been. I like to trade back in the draft when that is desirable, but I also think there are times to trade up. I like drafting players from big name schools when they are really good (Hello Marcel), but also think it’s important to keep an eye on the smaller schools to find unexpected talent there. So I guess I’m a raging Centrist in sports as much as I am in the political sphere.
No option for Sports Moderate?
There are people that term themselves as a Moderate. On some items they are conservative about, but on other subject matters they are liberal.
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Feb 13, 2012 9:07 AM EST reply actions
:-)
Yea, I thought about it….but that would’ve have been the easy way out….I guess the way I answered the question, is what side do I fall on the most..It’s also the reason why i listed 11 definitions…so that if forces you in to one box…Sorry :-)
I voted Conservative
but i’m just as liberal on some things, middle of the road on other things. But, one thing you have as being liberal should be conservative. And that is J) “Another man’s trash is another man’s treasure”. I lived with a father that was a hoarder. He liked to dumpster dive, find steel that could be used on his next snowmobile trailer. This is a very conservative view point that also falls under “Don’t throw anything away, i might need it later”. I came from a very conservative family, and i always felt alot of this type of attitude was attributed to going threw the great depression. Go out and buy a brand new vehicle you say? Not in my family, they would rather find a great deal out there that was under Kelly Blue Book value. Liberals would never go dumpster diving, a conservative never minds finding a bargain, especially if its free. :-)
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Feb 13, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Okay I shouldve been more clear with j)
What I meant by “another man trash, is another man treasure”, is that you rather build your team with players from other teams…rather then coach up the ones you’ve drafted.
My example of a Conservative Organization is the Steelers, my example of a Liberal Organization is the Jets. One is built for the long haul, and the other for short term.
NFL Leninist
Go all out to win every year. This is the communist NFL where revenue sharing has eliminated the big market- small market concept. This is a league where Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Indianapolis have won 5 out of the last 7 Super Bowls and Dallas hasn’t played for a conference title since 1995. Franchises in this league boil down to ownership. There are rich owners who go all out to win because their franchise is an expensive toy and not their financial lifeline and there are rich owners who worry who run their franchises with the idea that winning is a nice secondary consideration that can occur once in awhile through luck, but that squeezing out as much profit as possible is the primary concern. Wilson falls into that second group which is the heart of Buffalo’s being the worst franchise in the league.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
Agreed, Port Royal, with your summation of Ralph's Predilection as owner of the Bills
To squeeze every penny in order to maximize short term profit rather than care about winning. There was a time, where, as he got close to his 90s, I hoped he would change and start emphasizing the opportunity to win before he dies. But he didn’t change. He remains stuck forever in his penny-pinching ways. Figures…
How can you say that?
Do you read anything Wilson says? He said that he has made mistakes, especially with scouting and a real football man to run the day to day operations. He admitted that he needed a real football man and wish he could have the last decade of his life back. What more do you expect him to do?
We all make mistakes. He has apologized for his. He is trying to win now. I think he is hanging on in hopes he can experience the SB just once.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
by suteck on Feb 13, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree with you suteck
but that doesn’t really mean that wpod is wrong. But he might just not be looking at it as:
We still have a team, because of Ralph’s frugal approach.
Fact is, that he keeps us viable, in a market that is small, with a team that is an overall disappointment. Maybe it is solely our love of the team, but that love was created through his vision.
"mmmm... Glen honey, I have a question for you... What do you do for a living?"
"I have a question for you, too. Why are you still here?" ~ Glen Quagmire (Giggity Giggity Giggity Goo!)
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
My thoughts
As a Bills fan, its hard to be patient. We’ve haven’t been in the playoffs for 13 years now, and we’ve seen teams like the Lions and Bengals manage to make the playoffs. The whole idea of Building and Time, is something I can’t stomach anymore…I know that it sounds good, but I don’t believe this organization have the right people or the right structure in place to build a winning franchise a la Steelers and Packers. We go through coaches and QB’s like they’re going out of style and we don’t retain our homegrown talent. Other teams are making waves and have some sort of hope, what do we have?
Can I label us the most hopeless team in the NFL?
So even though my head says vote Conservative, my heart is telling me to vote Liberal…I’m at the point where I don’t care how we get there, lets just get there already…For me its ALL HANDS ON DECK, PUT UP OR SHUT UP, SINK OR SWIM, $HIT or GET UP…If we can go out and get a couple of difference makers on Offense and Defense and retain are own, we should….What are we waiting for?
You may be right doctor. What’s the best that could happen?
We go deep into the playoffs.
What’s the worst that could happen?
We suck next year?
Again.
Fitz gets destroyed week one and we watch Thiggy and Brad imitate the Quarterback position while we go 2-14?
At least then we’ll get another top 3 pick.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Feb 13, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Should be more than two choices
Just in real politics. Team building philosophy isn’t an either/or axis, and if people are presented with that, they’re not duly represented. I’d love to participate, Doc, but I just don’t fit.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Well here is what I said earlier
:-) Yea, I thought about it….but that would’ve have been the easy way out….I guess the way I answered the question, is what side do I fall on the most..It’s also the reason why i listed 11 definitions…so that if forces you in to one box…Sorry :-)
I was considering putting a combination of both…But I figured I wouldn’t. Mainly, because in politics we all are forced to pick a side, wheter we agree with everything or not…So to keep up with the theme, I just decided to have one or the other.
However, you must admit that in the real political scene…we all are kind of forced to pick between the “Red Team” or the "Blue Team. Its always the greater of the two evils. I agree with you, that most people are somewhere in the middle, and at the end of the day whether you agree with everything, you pick a side. You pick the side that represents you the BEST…I think thats the dynamic of this particular topic….
Come on Dyi, there has to be a side your leaning towards, :-)
I appreciate the thought and the well meaning humor,
However, you must admit that in the real political scene…we all are kind of forced to pick between the “Red Team” or the "Blue Team. Its always the greater of the two evils. I agree with you, that most people are somewhere in the middle, and at the end of the day whether you agree with everything, you pick a side. You pick the side that represents you the BEST…I think thats the dynamic of this particular topic….
But that’s a great description of what many consider to be a broken mindset that we have in place today. That’s not at all how I choose. I’m registered with a specific third party and have been for the nine years I’ve been registered to vote, because they’re the team that represents me the best, not the main two. I don’t think the either/or, black/white mindset works in either setting. Yes, it would be easy to say which side I fell on most of the time, but If I said that I "leaned" one way or another, it would seem as though I was reluctant, but ultimately okay with using that model to identify my positions. I’m not okay legitimizing that model. I’d rather say that I lean "forward".
On another note, in this sports situation, I think most of the criteria you list are economic criteria but there are social aspects to being a sports fan as well that broaden the left-right axis, including:
-How do you feel about problem players? Do you make efforts to work with them, or are you "my way or the highway"?
-What is your take on the usual owners/players business negotiations?
-How do you prefer to handle the media?
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Ugh. Delete that post as well, please. Having formatting issues.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
I appreciate the thought and the well meaning humor,
However, you must admit that in the real political scene…we all are kind of forced to pick between the "Red Team" or the "Blue Team. Its always the greater of the two evils. I agree with you, that most people are somewhere in the middle, and at the end of the day whether you agree with everything, you pick a side. You pick the side that represents you the BEST…I think thats the dynamic of this particular topic….
But that’s a great description of what many consider to be a broken mindset that we have in place today. That’s not at all how I choose. I’m registered with a specific third party and have been for the nine years I’ve been registered to vote, because they’re the team that represents me the best, not the main two. I don’t think the either/or, black/white mindset works in either setting. Yes, it would be easy to say which side I fell on most of the time, but If I said that I “leaned” one way or another, it would seem as though I was reluctant, but ultimately okay with using that model to identify my positions. I’m not okay legitimizing that model. I’d rather say that I lean “forward”.
On another note, in this sports situation, I think most of the criteria you list are economic criteria but there are social aspects to being a sports fan as well that broaden the left-right axis, including:
-How do you feel about problem players? Do you make efforts to work with them, or are you “my way or the highway”?
-What is your take on the usual owners/players business negotiations?
-How do you prefer to handle the media?
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
I can't vote
I am in both camps. I don’t fit either. As in “real” politics, there are choices. I believe in some liberal and some conservative points of views in real politics and in football ones. To try to fit any person in one or the other is a bit too hard.
If they are going for the SB push, then I’d be way more aggressive b/c they are in the position to do that. They should be able to attract top free agent talent etc.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, then slowly fade away in the antiquities of time.
I agree.
Which positions you take can often be a result of what your goals as a franchise are. If you’re coming off of a Super Bowl loss, you’re probably going to be one of the most aggressive, hungry teams in the league to acquire “talent at any cost”. If you’re coming off of a failed coaching regime, you may need to prune your roster and become very particular about your choices in rebuilding the team. The same team can be at very different stages within the span of say, a decade.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
So what if your team hasn't been to the playoffs in 13yrs?
Are you aggressive or do you prune your roster and become particular.
Over these past seasons, it seems like we were closer to the playoffs during the years that we were agressive…How do you explain this?
I explain it as we had a staff who could better identify and utilize talent.
I think that’s exactly what it was.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
However, you must admit that in the real political scene…we all are kind of forced to pick between the "Red Team" or the "Blue Team. Its always the greater of the two evils. I agree with you, that most people are somewhere in the middle, and at the end of the day whether you agree with everything, you pick a side. You pick the side that represents you the BEST…I think thats the dynamic of this particular topic….
No, I appreciate the thought and the well meaning humor, but that’s not at all how I choose. I’m registered with a specific third party and have been for the nine years I’ve been registered to vote, because they’re the team that represents me the best, not the main two. In this sports situation, I think most of the criteria you list are economic criteria but there are social aspects to being a sports fan as well, including:
-How do you feel about problem players? Do you make efforts to work with them, or are you “my way or the highway”?
-What is your take on the usual owners/players business negotiations?
-How do you prefer to handle the media?
I don’t think the either/or, black/white mindset works in either setting. Yes, it would be easy to say which side I fell on most of the time, but If I said that I “leaned” one way or another, it would seem as though I was reluctant, but ultimately okay with using that model to identify my positions. I’m not okay legitimizing that model. I’d rather say that I lean “forward”.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
Ok I see your point
I really like this though
I’m not okay legitimizing that model. I’d rather say that I lean "forward".
Not voting, as I don't agree with your definitions...
The positions I would ascribe to a “Sports Liberal” or a “Sports Conservative” are quite different than what you have set.
There is nothing wrong with that. It’s just that our preconceived notions and individual political bias cloud any definitions of this type.
I though about offering my own lists, but I don’t want to see this degrade into a contest of definitions.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
The Bills are like your parents. You can’t choose them, and no matter how much they disappoint you, and no matter how much you want to hate them, you simply love them. - BuffaloOwdaTwnr
No by all means
Have at it…Of course its all perception…Im curious of your definitions..and I promise I won’t critique it :)
Great Perspective
Its funny how you can relate politics to sports. Just as you could many other aspects of life to sports. I am liberal to the bone, and some of your stipulations in the conservitive box hit home with me. See in my opinion if your were to reflect not so much on other tems sucess over the last12 years but more or less the failures of the Buffalo Bills. Yea I feel that over this time period of failures we have dabled with both approaches. The time went by so fast and I always wanted us to spend money to compete. I for the first time in a long time feel even with earily similar results. the past two seasons compared to our previous bad years that we are building a great team . we need our talent to stay and add more talent the best way possible in the most critical areas not just for immediate sucess but to add the final pieces of the puzzle we have been too shy to fullfill in the past. . w
the warrior
by Buffalo Warrior on Feb 13, 2012 1:10 PM EST reply actions
Sports green party
Draft bpa no matter
Spends on free agents
Cuts dead weight
Doesnt trade picks
With the first pick in the 2012 draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffen III
by Gpluehri on Feb 13, 2012 1:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm a Sports Moderate.
Use your best judgement at all times, outside of party lines, for the common sense better good for the organization.
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Feb 13, 2012 7:08 PM EST reply actions
I am a political conservative
but there are places in football that require a little moderation. I can say I lean conservative, but when I see value I dont mind being aggresive.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
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