Buffalo adding picks
by forlife on Feb 14, 2012 1:04 PM EST
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if Coples isn't available at 10 they should trade down pick Kirkpatrick and add another 2nd round pick as well as trade Freddy for a late 2nd round pick then they could take Bobbie Masse OT, George Iloka FS and Brock Osweiler QB in the 2nd, Ladrius Green in the 3rd, Michael Egnew and Bruce Irvin in the 4th, Davin Meggett RB and TJ Graham in the 5th, Jacquies Smith DE in the 6th Cordaro Law in the 7th what does everyone think?
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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All This Trade Freddy Talk Is Insane...
And it is simply not going to happen. Don’t hold your breath.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 14, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
they can sign Choice a lot cheaper than extending Fred, and then get a draft pick or 2, even two 4th rounders would be worth it, plan for the future,
I disagree.
You don’t build teams by trading your best players. And Fred Jackson is the best Buffalo Bill. You build around them.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 14, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
when they are 31 and you have no chance of making the super bowl for 2 or 3 more years you do trade away FJax and get a couple of picks hopefully two 3rd rounders, and considering Chan is a pass to set up run, a guy like CJ is actually better in there system, if you look at teams like the Patriots hey use the system to their advantage, and when players get to a certain point they trade them away to improve their team, when you have a player that has value as trade bait use it to, if Fred goes down then where are, no Freddy and nothing for him
Ask NE* how letting Seymore leave worked out for them
"God all-MIGHTY! God all-MIGHTY! Why do we DO that?!! God all-MIGHTY!!!" "Just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys."
"We're at the crossroads...there's no doubt about that. But you can get it done...you can get it done...what's more you've GOT to get it done." Lou Saban
plan for the future,
at what point does ‘plan for the future’ meet up with the present? the bills were a playoff caliber football team for the first half of the 2011 season. you want them to throw away the 2012 season before it starts for a mid round draft pick? why?
buddy and chan arent here to lose while stockpiling draft picks for the next bills regime. they are here to try and win. this ’trade fred jackson!" talk is asinine. its not going to happen.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Feb 14, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
And whether or not you think Fred should be traded...
he won’t be. He will get an extension. It’s happening.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 14, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
the first thing 6 of the 9 rookies were starters by the end of the season and 7 of the 9 will be in 2012, since Choice will resigned cheaply, why not get two 3rd round picks and have CJ start with Choice, White and draft Davin Meggett in the 5th wouldn’t be worth it
why not get two 3rd round picks and have CJ start with Choice, White and draft Davin Meggett
for two reasons:
1) two thirds? 0% chance that jackson would fetch that price. not “almost 0%”, but literally 0%.
2) because in that scenario the bills are a much, much worse football team than if fred jackson was in that group.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
It’s amazing to me that Freddie Jackson isn’t worth 2 3rd round picks, but the team would be worse with 2 3rd round picks than with Fred Jackson. I’m not disagreeing with you at all, it’s just funny that it works out that way, and points out how strange the priority system of the draft can be.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
it is the nature of this thought
that forces me to disagree. I accept I could be blatantly wrong, and that my obvious bias for Fred Jackson could be causing an overestimation of worth. That said, I believe that relative market dictates the cost of goods, and since he has demonstrated way above average production, he offers a commodity not matched by “every other” running back, regardless of his age. He is a player in his prime, with a lot of production on this team to back up his argument. I think he would be valuable to a handful of teams in the league, regardless of the decreased importance of the position, for MOST (but not all) teams.
He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy.
Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve read that a few times through, and I’m not sure which part you’re disagreeing with…
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
his underestimated value.
I personally, think, and have been clear, that I feel that it is CONCEIVABLE (as in NOT- INCONCEIVABLE!!! ;) )
that we MIGHT, MAYBE, fetch more for him, than we got for a RB with 2 strikes, even with a decreased value of the RB. As J2 points out, along with a few other posters on “The Trade Fred Jackson Thread” (aka “The Let’s Hate on Non-conformists Thread”) that it isn’t that big of a stretch that SOME team, might consider a pick in the 2013 draft, or even something better than a 4th (or 5th as it was contended) pick in this draft. This really just seems too “definitive” and/or dismissive to assume that they know for a fact that it is outside the realm of possibilities that anyone would trade more than a 4th round selection, for a top 5 RB in the league.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
specifically GB was referenced
and the fact that Aaron Rodgers might be a guy who would go to bat for bringing in Fred jackson, to help their weak run game, which helps the defense and takes pressure off the passing game. They could afford a third, or two thirds, or a future 2nd (2013) and if they did offer that….
the question was “Would you take a high pick for Fred?” The counterargument was that you COULDN’T POSSIBLY get it. I disagree with that view. I think it is possible. I think that what you highlight, is that the value of the player doesn’t match up for other teams the way it does for us. I question that view as well.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, but I didn’t say anything about the conceivability of the Bills getting high draft picks for him. My comment was regarding the blatant catch 22 type situation brought about by overthinking and/or overvaluing draft picks.
Or were you really replying to boomsauce’s comment?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
no.
My comment was regarding the blatant catch 22 type situation brought about by overthinking and/or overvaluing draft picks.
i think i was commenting in regards to this. maybe i am doing a poor job of it. I think the catch 22, highlights a possibility that our own ability to gauge worth, might be questionable, on either end of the spectrum. This in no way excludes me, or anyone else that has commented on this matter.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
hopefully this comment is more clear
and succinct, even if it is slightly tangent.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Your funny. lol
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Ah in that case, I disagree. I think that Freddie’s value, as one of the more complete backs in the league, who has demonstrated the ability to take control of a game with a few good plays, means that he means quite a bit to the Bills. His value to other teams is probably unrelated. So do I think that he is worth more to the Bills than 2 3rd round picks? Probably. Do I agree that he is not worth 2 3rd round picks on the open market? Absolutely. This, to me, is odd.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
i agree with every word
the most significant of which… is “ODD”. As in, deviates from the norm, or popular opinion. It seems blatantly contradictory that he can’t hold similar value to ANY other team. I don’t understand why this is inherently true.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
other than
it just is, or “because I say so” i have heard little explanation why this catch 22 exists. I DO recognize that it does exist, and am looking for some kind of explanation.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
easy right?
he is old.
That doesn’t fly with me, when I say:
He hasn’t had the same wear and tear for the average 30 year old
which i later concede to J2.. that it should specify NFL wear and tear.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
It’s the idea of 2 3rd round picks. That’s the equivalent of a low 2nd round pick. I can’t imagine any RB in the NFL drawing that much, given the reduced importance of the position and the abundance of “legitimate” RBs. Yes, he is old, though as I have posted in other threads (with you, I might add), he’s a young 31 as far as the NFL is concerned. His broken leg shouldn’t be much of an issue, because he’ll come back stronger. But I wouldn’t pay 2 3rd rounders for any RB in the league if I was a GM. Draft picks are seen as too valuable, and new RBs come out of the wood work to become very good every year. The chances of finding one for cheaper is better than trading for Jackson and having him not repeat his performance of last year.
It boils down to the fact that: I cannot imagine a GM giving up that much for a back, even if they see RB as the last piece of the offensive puzzle, because it’s not worth the chance you’re taking.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
i can respect your assessment.
as it relates to 2 3rd round selections.
A late second?
A future second?
A future 3rd?
Any of these, would mean that he has more value than just a 4th. While I readily agree that MOST GMs are not going to wager much, unless they are that “last piece” of the puzzle, I am not in the camp that there are no potential suitors. The Ravens might move on a complementary back for Rice, as Ricky Williams never really brought more than a guy who can fall forward for yards. I think GB, Pittsburgh, Detroit, San Diego, or New York and NE (last because I do think interdivisional trades are more risky)… ONE of them, MIGHT consider one of the above suggestions. That was really the full extent of my point, and I received a lot of contention, that this was completely absurd,and out of the question.
A large amount of other posters, made similar claims, or held similar opinions, without similar backlash. This suggests a disagreement of a personal nature, to me. Perhaps I am incorrect and it just seems that way to me, because I am the one defending my position.
"mmmm... Glen honey, I have a question for you... What do you do for a living?"
"I have a question for you, too. Why are you still here?" ~ Glen Quagmire (Giggity Giggity Giggity Goo!)
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
True
FJ being traded for anything worthwhile (2nd rounder) isn’t gonna happen, but insane and asinine is a little harsh for expressing one’s opinion.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 14, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Why isnt a 3rd round pick valuable
2011 Sheppard 3rd, Searcy and Hairston 4th, 2010 Carrington 3rd Easley 4th, not to mention Meatball 5th n 2006 and Bell and Johnson 7th in 2008
FJ
Rather keep him than gain a 3rd rder.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
boomsauce
Exactly. I said the same thing several posts down. I didn’t realize that you had already made that point. I completely agree. If they did it, I think they absolutely would be stockpiling picks for the next regime.
if they were willing to open the bank to bring in a top RE then i would be all for keeping Freddy, then they could compete for the superbowl, but if they dont it would be hard for me to keeping him when you could easily get a 3rd right now and maybe two 3rds come the season, as for the next regime crap, i think the 2011 draft proved they know talent, the offence is a deep threat and a healthy O-line from being like the Saints and consistency is the name of the game now,
the offence is a deep threat and a healthy O-line from being like the Saints
i think you mean that the offense is 2 deep threats, a healthy O-line, a star tight end and a drew brees away from being like the saints.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
by boomsauce on Feb 15, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree on trading down. Do NOT agree with trading FJax.
by PineWoodsBillsFan on Feb 14, 2012 2:00 PM EST reply actions
Do NOT agree with trading FJax.
I totally agree. Teams can pick on a couple things that would bring down his value immediately.
1.) His age
2.) His injury history within the last three years or so
3.) His production through his career.
Teams are not going to give up a 2nd round pick. And I don’t think that I would want it even if someone was willing to exchange it for Freddy. I personally think this is a weak draft class overall and it would really depend on who was available. With all that said, nobody is going to offer a 2nd round pick for him. We would be lucky to get a 4th rounder for him. Freddie is worth way more than that in my opinion.
but the Bills are not going to the super bowl in the next 2 years so why wouldn’t you want to trade FJax for two 4th round picks,
but wouldn’t it make sense seeing as how buffalo won’t be making a run at the super bowl and CJ looked pretty good wouldn’t it make sense to add two 3rd or 4th round picks, last year we added Sheppard, Searcy and Hairston in the 3rd and 4th, doesn’t it make sense to trade FJax to add two more players like them
FJ
He’s not going anywhere I’d venture. Keep him and build thru draft like Nix said they were. FJ is old but productive RB use him don’t trade for a 4th rder.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 14, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Not only that, but every good running team has 2 good backs for depth. Tashard Choice was a 2 time cast off last year because he’s only as good as 3rd back. Teams are picking up aging backs like McGahee and R.Williams because you need that hard nosed running back on your team. Let Fred Jackson retire here like he should.
i dont want them to trade FREDDY either but if they are not willing to go after a high priced RE then i dont see them competing for the super bowl so why waste another year of his career when you could trade him to a contender and get Brock Osweler, OBD has to decide if they want to will in 2012 or in 2014, if they want to win now resign Steve and Chandler and Sign FA REs Cliff Avril and/or Anthony Spencer, and get that big time WR they want
simple
Trade value isn’t fair considering FJ ‘s value at this time to this franchise. He’s a cog in this team and we won’t get just compensation for him if we trade him.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
sorry better luck next time
Buddy doesn’t like trading down to add picks and has gone oo record saying so.
Fred is not worth a second rounder. As awesome as he is he has a limited number of seasons to justify such a high pick. His age and lack of time left on his current contract will impact negatively on his trade value.
Fred is worth much much more to the team than the fourth or lower we’d get for him.
Buddy will not make either trade.
Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life.
- Brooke Shields
by Let's Go Buffalo (UK) on Feb 14, 2012 2:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wonder if all these people that are saying to trade Freddie now were saying to sign him during the season. That would be a typical fan.
“Sign him. Nix had better sign him to a contract or I am going to be soooo pissed. They freaking gave Fitzpatrick a contract but they won’t give Freddie a contract. That is our front office for ya.”
And a few months later…..
“Trade Freddie away. He is too old. We can get more for him now if we trade him.”
Fans are stupid.
agreed
And they are the same who were loving Fitz before the downturn then hating him during and then saying he is ok once it was confirmed he was playing injured.
It’s the same in all sports and is as true here in the uk as in the states.
Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life.
- Brooke Shields
by Let's Go Buffalo (UK) on Feb 14, 2012 2:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder if all these people that are saying to trade Freddie now were saying to sign him during the season.
I believe i’ve argued both points yes, but my loyalty lies with the Bills winning a SB and I think selling Fred high if you could right now would be more adventitious to our team in the long run.
Fans are stupid.
some maybe, but not all of us. I like to argue points that I may not even agree with because of conversation and getting other peoples information on circumstance. You may call it stupid while I call it information gathering and fining out peoples thought processes on certain issues.
Take my post on trading Fred for a 2nd – never going to happen – but found out that a lot of our fans would do it which was surprising to me. Also got some good rational for why or why that wouldn’t happen. You can think of it as someone being stupid but some of us are here for more than that. If you can get past the antics that is
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DO IT! - Venkman
by J2 on Feb 14, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
some maybe, but not all of us. I like to argue points that I may not even agree with because of conversation and getting other peoples information on circumstance. You may call it stupid while I call it information gathering and fining out peoples thought processes on certain issues.
Heaven forbid we want to discuss things on a blog site, and understand why someone’s perspective might differ from our own. That is CRAZY.
Also got some good rational for why or why that wouldn’t happen. You can think of it as someone being stupid but some of us are here for more than that. If you can get past the antics that is
I concur, though I might qualify as part of the “antics”; that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a view, and make every attempt to support that view, regardless of contention.
"mmmm... Glen honey, I have a question for you... What do you do for a living?"
"I have a question for you, too. Why are you still here?" ~ Glen Quagmire (Giggity Giggity Giggity Goo!)
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
i Hate the PATS but they do know how to play the draft
i love Fred but i love the Bills more, and for us to win a Super Bowl they should trade guys when they have value, i would rather deal with getting rid of a player early (Richard Semour) than keep one past his prime,
I don’t think Freddie is past his prime. In fact, I think he played better last year than in any other year that he has been with the Bills.
not to answer for him
but it seems like he is implying that maybe Fred’s production last year is him peaking, and moving forward, he will decline. That isn’t out of the question, but I am with you- I don’t believe he is on the decline yet. If he doesn’t keep up his competitiveness, then CJ will overtake him, and put us in position of either “overpaying” Fred (maybe) or releasing him (thus contradicting Nix’s claims that he wants Fred to retire as a Buffalo Bill).
He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy.
Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
actually what i mean is
that i think it is better to trade a player away a year or 2 before they start to decline while they have value, the Bills are not winning the super bowl this season so wouldnt it be better to get atleast a couple mid round picks, look at the quality of 2011 picks, 7 of the 9 will be starters in 2012, including two 4th and 7th having said this i still think they should extend him and when a team needs a RB (injury), they could then trade him when he would be most valuable,
not sure how that really differs from what I said.
but, ok.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
and that is precisely why i was concerned with them hiring Buddy, sometimes it is best to trade down, like this year with the Bills needs as many as they are and if Coples is off the board at 10, and who would be worth the pick, especially when they could trade down and use the extra pick on making the team a super bowl contender in 3 years,
Belichick has been trading down for a while and accumulating picks. Buddy did say something pretty interesting last year. When you trade down, you tend to give up better players for more picks. Plus you really don’t have control of what happens once you do make the trade. Someone can just as easily trade up to pick in front of you and pick the player that you want. And I think that is why Buddy prefers to stay put. I don’t blame him.
by AP22 on Feb 14, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
recd
i completely agree with your view, your assessment, as well as Buddy’s implied view as well.
He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy.
Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
thats exactly why buddy likes staying put. he would much rather have the better football player than the extra pick or two.
players win games, not draft picks.
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
very true
but the more selections, the better chance to fill needs. that is the Patriots way, to a tee. The fundamental difference is their needs are less, their talent is more, and so anyone starting from where we are, should be adding the BEST players they can, regardless of how many they can get. Patriots would probably say that the more guys they have to look at, the better their odds of finding players. Either approach works, it comes down to which works for which need.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 14, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
buffalo has only two 1st round picks as starters, Wood and Dareus,
this said all 5 of these late round guys are starters 2012 and IMHO for a few years to come Sheppard 3rd, Searcy and Hairston 4th, Rogers and Jasper 7th, i just think that if you can drop to say 15 still pick up a great player add another 2nd round pick and use it on another really good possibly great player (Aaron Williams), dont forget that Stevie was a 7th rounder and Meatball was a 5th rounder
well, they are only going to have 3 as starters, IF they select one this year that starts.
I don’t personally think moving back 3 spots necessarily commands an additional second. I WOULD do it though, because we can probably still select one of our targets, at 15. I am happy to simply select a guy, when we are ready to pick, as Buddy has done so far.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Two First Rder's
And our record confirms that :)
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
that is the Patriots way, to a tee
yeah, and the patriots have a god awful track record with there drafts over the last several years. they loaded up on defensive picks for a while and their defense only got worse. in my opinion, belichiks tendency to leave talent on the board by trading down cost him a SB ring this season.
that team is nothing today without tom brady, and picking him was the equivalent of winning the lottery
Its fun to think quarterback, but i think the odds of nix taking one in the first are close to 0%.
no doubt
i agree. as I said, they rather have a large quantity of picks, hoping to hit sometimes. It is less difficult than having a few picks, and needing to hit on all.
I also agree that his method is questionable, when he has needs that go un-addressed (pass rusher/LB/secondary…)
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Questionable
Yes, but if you look overall regarding FO we haven’t been big spenders, its a perfect excuse to say build thru draft since owner wants to take his money with him :) Fans are dubbed and RW spends bare minium(sp.) Bill’s spend money in weird ways man!
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
this has less to do with spending
and more to do with hitting on picks though, IMO.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
We won’t spend on FA and can’t hit in the draft, not good.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
i don't agree with
We won’t spend on FA and can’t hit in the draft
i do agree it is not good… but I don’t get this feeling at all. If we were SO ineffective at both, we wouldn’t field mediocrity, we would be straight garbage. Plus, we probably wouldn’t have the NFL record most consecutive Super Bowl appearances if it weren’t for good FA signings and drafting. So, we CAN do it. We just haven’t done it in a long time, and only recently have we seemed to get better at it, which is why I have not given up on Buddy, even though I am frustrated with Chan. Even a bad coach can succeed with GREAT talent, so I hope that Nix keeps doing a decent job. I really have no issue with any of his picks.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ahh
See in my world a decade of mediocrity is comparable to being garbage, straight or not. Our 4 SB appearances were along time ago, past is past, let it go. Don’t forget we lost each appearance. Not good. I disagree back at you. I feel Chan has done well given his personnel given him by Nix and inherited. Chan has made watching Bill’s play fun, not embarrassing. Whats embarrassing is FO"s lack of support top to bottom.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 16, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i respect that.
nothing worse than having to watch Steve Fairchild call a game. “Run, Run, Pass, Punt” as I used to call him.
trust me, i am not holding onto those superbowls. I was busy rooting on the Cowboys to their victories. Just saying. I mean, I have suffered as much as most Bills fans over the last couple decades or so… always been a fan. Just i was a bigger Aikman and Emmitt fan. They were my favorites. Still kinda are. I highly dislike Jimmy Kelly (live in town his wife is from, know lots of people who have had dealings with him) as a person, and i NEVER liked Thurman. He is STILL whining now, about how he would have the records Emmitt does, if he had Emmitt’s line? How disrespectful is that to his former teammates? What a class act….. (thumbs down + raspberry : P)
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 16, 2012 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
My Memories
Are of my team getting beat in SB. By no strecth of my imagination did I want or hope any Dallas team would win. I thought you were a Bill’s fan? But sounds like a fan I’ve never heard of. First a Cowboy and now a Bill’s fan. Fickle IMHO. I’ve had count it one NFL team as my fav. Go Bill’s! Born and raised and free range to boot!
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 16, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
dude! I was ELEVEN
hahahaa. i had been force fed the Bills my whole life, and barely even understood football. My cousin decided he was a dallas fan. I watched some games, thought Aikman and Emmitt were the bomb. (you might note, that uh, they were pretty damn good, and are both in the HOF, right? I mean, that is DECENT understanding of talent, at a young age, IMO.) I have been a fan of this team, through all the garbage since, I assure you. besides, i can’t stand Roni Tomo, or ANY of their defense, and they just in general suck. I happen to be a SD fan, a Texan fan, and a Saints fan as well. I don’t discriminate. I like talented ball clubs, and i have a wide range of preferences in offense and defense.
Born and raised in Attica, NY my whole life. Bought a house on the street my Parents lived on their whole lives. Both my parents families lived here. They are ALL Bills fans, if fans of football at all. By no means, should I have my adolescence held against me, IMO. I bet you did some stupid crap when you were that age too.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 16, 2012 2:08 AM EST up reply actions
if Coples isn’t available at 10 they should trade down pick Kirkpatrick and add another 2nd round pick as well as trade Freddy for a late 2nd round pick
Personally- JUST MY VIEW- Kirkpatrick is already gone at 10. Coples, is available, and a reach.
Others’ view- you are a completely insane moron for even thinking Fred is worth more than an old shoe, and a big pile of ear wax. He is too old. Duh.
"mmmm... Glen honey, I have a question for you... What do you do for a living?"
"I have a question for you, too. Why are you still here?" ~ Glen Quagmire (Giggity Giggity Giggity Goo!)
IN WHAT UNIVERSE...
Can anyone get a 2nd round pick for an over-30 running back with an injury history and only 1 career thousand yard season? Is it the Marvel 2099 universe? Should I be on the lookout for neon Ghost Riders?
The only reason anyone might think that Fred Jackson is worth a 2nd round pick is that they are a Bills fan. Can we trade him to us? What would that get us? We’d still probably get screwed on the deal.
If we could only get a 4th rounder for Marshawn, who was 24, a 1st round pick himself, AND had multiple thousand yard seasons, what in the sam hill makes you think you can get a 2nd for Freddie? This is serious, hardcore, Koolaid talk.
by Ian MacPersonoid on Feb 14, 2012 4:30 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
No one will give us a 2nd for Freddie
We couldn’t even get a 2nd for Lynch.
Also I agree that Nix just won’t trade down either. Like most people he likes to keep things simple. We live in a draft world where 6th rounders can take your team to the Superbowl 5 times and win three of them. So why trade your picks? It is far easier to know where you are picking from and plan ahead.
It sounds like he assigns draft round grades to players, and then mocks the draft so that he knows which 5 or 6 players might be there when it is his turn to select. And when he is in the 4th round and someone with a 3rd round grade is still there (say like a Chris Hairston, for example) you deviate from the plan and get the better player. With so many positions that need upgrading on this team, getting the BPA is really the way to go.
You’ll never get a 2nd round pick for Fred. I’m not saying he isn’t worth more, because I believe he is worth a first to the Bills. Fred brings more to the team than being a great RB, which is saying something right there. The fact that he brings more than just great all around skill and running ability makes him incredibly valuable, BUT that doesn’t mean he is worth the more. It’s a passing game, and RBs are easier found (Fred went undrafted, Foster went undrafted, Ryan Grant went undrafted, Ahmad Bradsaw round 7, Jacobs round 4, Demarco Murray round 3, i think you get the idea). Hypothetical situations are nice but need to be based in reality not our rose colored fan glasses.
You’ll never get a 2nd round pick for Fred. I’m not saying he isn’t worth more, because I believe he is worth a first to the Bills.
I completely agree.
It’s a passing game, and RBs are easier found (Fred went undrafted, Foster went undrafted, Ryan Grant went undrafted, Ahmad Bradsaw round 7, Jacobs round 4, Demarco Murray round 3, i think you get the idea).
I do disagree with you on the point that you can pretty much find a running back from just anywhere. Good players are good players. I think that just shows that the draft can be a crapshoot. I honestly do not buy into what the media has been saying in that the game is different now and that it is a passing game now. It is still football. People are going to adjust and if teams start to get really good pass rushers, I think the pendulum will swing back and there will be more running teams. I think the NFL chases fads too much. To me, I think that there is more than one way to get the job done. You can be a spread offense and a bend but don’t break defense, etc. As long as you don’t cheat, I don’t think people care how you get the job done.
Copy Patriots drafting ways??
No way. The last thing we want to do is follow there blue print in drafting. They’ve missed on more draft picks in recent years than you may think. Richard Seymour could have helped that team this year. Let’s go with a proven draft strategy in Buddy Nix’s. As ignorant as he may seem to a lot of these skeptics, he does know how to draft. We don’t need quantity, we need quality!!
Buddy hit on 5 out of 9 draft picks that started in 2011 and another 2 will likely be starters in 2012, so with a group that pick that well wouldnt you want to add a few more picks, but it does all depend on FA Chandler, Johnson and a RE, but if Coples and Kirkpatrick are off the board i cannot see anyone that they would want that couldnt be picked at 15, especially if it gives them a pick to risk on Brock Osweiler
Buddy hit on 5 out of 9 draft picks that started in 2011 and another 2 will likely be starters in 2012
I think you are judging the recent draft class too early. If you were to ask people a year or two after Vince Young was drafted if he was a good pick, people probably would have said yes.
by AP22 on Feb 15, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pats obsessed with value
Sometimes it works for them e.g their TEs but it doesn’t always pan out that way. They are also in a different position to us where they have been able to get high picks for players they viewed as dispensable. As great as trading back from 10 sounds in theory i’d rather take a shot at someone at 10 who perhaps should have been taken before.
Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life.
- Brooke Shields
by Let's Go Buffalo (UK) on Feb 15, 2012 5:22 AM EST reply actions
Trading down is different than trading Freddy
I would be for trading down if Coples is gone as long as the value is at least equal to the draft pick trade value chart. But I would be against the idea of trading Freddy Jackson for a draft pick. These are two different ideas; not the same thing at all. The reason I would be for trading down is there are at least three alternative RDE prospects whose draft values are all roughly equivalent (i.e., Mercilus; Perry; Ingram) so if you can pick up an additional draft pick you might as well take it (unlikely but not impossible).
Will Everyone Please
hush about this trade Freddy stuff?
Honestly, how stupid does that sound “Oh hey, let’s trade our incredible RB who is versatile in every aspect and can groom our young RB. All we need is a 2nd rounder boys!!”
So stupid, he is our BEST player. The BEST teams in the league KEEP their best players until they retire. You don’t see Ravens fans begging for Ray Lewis to get traded for a 2nd because he’s old, do ya?
That kind of stuff is why we are constantly picking top 10……
i agree, overall, with this sentiment.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with most of this, except that this is a regular thing in Buffalo. Bad drafting, letting our few good players walk after their rookie contracts, and not pulling the trigger on potential franchise QBs are the reasons we are constantly picking in the top ten. When is the last time we let a 32 year old walk where people were genuinely upset about it?
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
maybe not 32 year olds
but we let veterans walk, and watch them be successful elsewhere, pretty regularly.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
I know that, but that’s not what I’m arguing. The idea that we are the “farm system” of the NFL is somewhat accurate, but that certainly doesn’t include 32 year old RBs. I don’t think this is a regular problem with the Bills.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
doesn’t include 32 year old RBs. I don’t think this is a regular problem with the Bills.
i suppose. we surely have more examples at LB and CB, but HB is still a position we have been pretty dumb about, in a way. I mean, we draft them early, consistently, and then move them, or release them, for little or nothing in exchange. I just don’t understand the hangup on age with the guy. plenty of players are exceptions. Look at WRs. they get hit all the time, they stick around into later 30’s. Same with corners. Look at Malloy, Vincent, or Woodson. They just transition to safety as they get slower. I mean, to think that ONE guy could EVER be the exception, isn’t that big of a stretch to me. I think people are quick to undervalue him, because our overall talent level has been so consistently low, that it is hard for us to imagine that he could just actually BE A GREAT PLAYER, and that it was our good fortune to have him, discover him, rediscover him, and then use him. Now that we have, I don’t see why the fact that he is a COUPLE of years older than other feature backs in the league (literally only a couple when compared to some) and not even the OLDEST back in the league. Williams kicked around for 11 seasons, and is only now retiring at 34. If he hadn’t had time off, had drug issues, and had played consistently as Fred is right now, He would likely still be a starter somewhere. I just don’t get it, and refuse to support this line of thinking.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
sorry. RICKY Williams. That part probably matters, though you can probably infer from my description.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with all of that. But the point remains, our problems with HBs, at least recently (within the last 10 yes) have been the same as other positions: we draft them, develop them, and then get rid of them. Sure, they’ve had overly negative attitudes, but for the most part it’s been a mutual arrangement. I was simply saying this situation is, in my eyes, mostly unprecedented, and I feel it’s unfair to blame OBD for something that a) has not been an issue in the past, and b) hasn’t even happened yet.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
no doubt.
i agree that we can’t make an assumption, and then develop an argument, for no reason. I can tell you, that it is annoying to have those conversations, especially when they aren’t going to happen, haven’t happen, or probably wouldn’t happen. However, this is the time of year for speculation, as well as looking back at what we HAVE done, to imagine what we MIGHT do. I can’t begrudge trying to draw conclusions. At very least, he is using his brain, and has a view that he supports.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Again though, I wasn’t arguing against the premise, just that it is an unprecedented situation, not something the Bills regularly do.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
no question.
thanks for the clarification. (and the conversations. i have had arguments with plenty of people. Few have the same general respect afterwards. I try to not hold grudges, and be as polite to others, as they are to me; I know other’s won’t always feel that way, but it is my method. I appreciate that even though we disagree- on the regular- you remain open, and polite. Thanks.)
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 15, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ahh
TRT have you been disrespected? lol :)
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 16, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
oh, did i fail to mention that?
lol.
I am done with that. Just want to show my due respect for those who realize this is a blog site, where people discuss, argue, and rant and rave occasionally. Those occasions might just occur more for some of us. : )
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 16, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Your special.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 16, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
no more special than you are, my friend.
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 16, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
to be clear:
…you’re not how much money you’ve got in the bank. You’re not your job. You’re not your family, and you’re not who you tell yourself…. You’re not your name…. You’re not your problems…. You’re not your age…. You are not your hopes.
Fight Club, if you are somehow unfamiliar.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 16, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
Before FJ
There was ML you know! He plays for Seattle now. Just saying.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 15, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
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