Stevie Johnson, Buffalo Bills Not Close On Contract, Per Report
by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 8:31 AM EST
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The Associated Press is reporting that while contract talks are ongoing between the Buffalo Bills and receiver Stevie Johnson, the two sides are still "far apart" in those discussions.
The news is, in our view, simply an update to the report that ran last week that noted that the two sides had exchanged proposals, and that they'd be meeting face-to-face to continue negotiations at this week's 2012 NFL Combine in Indianapolis.
The report also states that Johnson and his representatives do not expect the Bills to use the franchise tag on him should negotiations not go well. The $9.4 million tag figure, the report says, would cripple the team's already pinched budget and prevent them from addressing other positions in free agency.
There are still 22 days until free agency begins, so there's plenty of time for the two sides to close the gap. With the franchise tag apparently off the table, however, the already-high stakes in this negotiation were just raised for the Bills.
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Couple things:
“Johnson has not discussed how much he’s seeking, except to say he’s not asked the team to pay him $9 million or $10 million a season, which would put him in the upper echelon of NFL receivers.”
- So how far apart is “far apart”, guy? Are the Bills giving you like $5M and your want $7? Or is it like you want $8M and they are offering $7M? Cause that’s a big difference.
- Stevie’s agent has consistently been negotiating through the media and I don’t like that. Lee Evans got a huge contract without doing that. It’s just a personal preference of mine, though it does drive traffic to Buffalo Rumblings. :-)
by MattRichWarren on Feb 20, 2012 8:36 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I agree
This “source” sounds like the agent salting to try and stir up some unofficial team interest to drive the price up.
I’m hoping the riff is on some minutiae like number of years or incentive bonuses and not on price. I would hate for the Bills to have to franchise Stevie than hammer a deal out during preseason .
Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves...deliberately into paranoid situations.
by christopher.j on Feb 20, 2012 8:46 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Agreed
If the source cannot be named then don’t report it is my view. Yeah sure it was the associated press that reported it, who would you even contact to question this rumor?
by ManitobaBillsFan on Feb 20, 2012 10:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wish.....
Our brain trust was a lot more open to the media and the public regarding spending…..
This article has bad vibes in it…..can’t franchise Stevie? Why? They have the room, unless, of course, they have their own, much smaller budget…..
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Feb 20, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Team Policy...meeting in Indy is key
They don’t discuss that stuff in the media because that is their policy with the players. That is how they operate.
I dislike these reports to mainly because THEY ARE MEETING in INDY.
if they weren’t meeting in Indy i would be worried. But so far they exchanged proposals the true work gets done in meeting.
the only way they couldnt afford to franchise Stevie is if they dont move last years cap space to this year
Let’s not forget that “handcuff” was the word that Walker used to describe the Bills economic situation if they franchise Stevie. I don’t agree with that choice of words. Of course they would have less money to spend, but I doubt an extra $2 million (something that could easily be a bonus on Stevie’s contract if he should sign anyway) would significantly hamstring the club if they roll over money from last year. Even if they don’t do that, it’s not like we were that tight against the cap to begin with.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
Why would they franchise him unless they were planning on paying him $9.5M this season? They would pay over 2 million dollars more in 2012 than they would if he worked out a long-term deal.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 20, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
The Lee Evans situation was very different. Lee signed in, I believe, week 3 or 4 of the last season of his deal, so he really had no incentive to signal via the media that he may in fact hit the open market. Stevie, on the other hand, is less than a month from hitting the market, so he (and his agent) have every incentive to signal to other teams that they may have a chance at signing him. For instance, a team like the Redskins might be interested and the ability to sign a player like Stevie could influence whether and how they go about dealing with extending and/or franchising their current players. I think his agent is making the smart move here.
And why wouldn’t Stevie want to play this for all he can. He’s a 7th round pick who has excelled in a challenging league. I don’t blame him for wanting money. He may see what has happened to Fred Jackson and wants nothing to do with missing his big pay day.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Lee kept his mouth shut, always. Stevie has been negotiating through the media all season not just now.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 20, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Evans through his QB under the bus in the media
Stevie never did that
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
What’s that have to do with his contract?
by MattRichWarren on Feb 21, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
rec
Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Feb 20, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Agent Posturing
That is all I see this as. And to MRW’s point, I’m guessing the difference may be a combination of $ per year and number of years on the contract. For examples:
4 years at $7 million = $28 million
vs.
5 years at $8 million = $40 million
You realize that NFL contracts aren't guaranteed right? Years don't matter.
The thing that matters is guaranteed money. He could very well be asking for $30m in guaranteed money. Guaranteeing $30 out of that $40 doesn’t “look” bad on 5 year contract but if he’s only good for 3 more years? You just paid him $10m a year for them.
Limited time only! Save 5% with code: XGWUI
by twoeightnine on Feb 20, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s amazing to me how many people still don’t understand that NFL deals aren’t guaranteed. However, I think he is bringing up the point that assuming Stevie plays out whatever contract he signs, a one million a dollar a year difference ends up being a lot by the time the deal expires.
In his example, one more year and one more million per year nets him 12 million more… That’s a lot of $$$!!!!!!!!!!
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
just sign him
I am sick of the same ol Bills. Letting talent walk is frustrating but that’s what we do. He is young, charasmatic,productive and a good team mate. 1bd needs to get it 2gether.
by itwasaforwardpass on Feb 20, 2012 8:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Well, just signing a player to the price the player wants isn’t very constructive, or helpful to the team long term. We don’t know what they’re negotiating, but that’s the name of the game – negotiating. Let’s withhold judgment until it’s closer to FA time. It was a forward pass though – love the name.
by BuffaloRepresent on Feb 20, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Wait a tic...
The $9.4 million tag figure, the report says, would cripple the team’s already pinched budget and prevent them from addressing other positions in free agency.
Isn’t that just straight up inaccurate? Aren’t we $20 million under the cap with the option to roll the unused space from last year to roll in? I know we have a few potentially important re-signs in addition to Stevie (Urbik and Rinehart come to mind), but that seems an overstatement at best.
There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not
Again: the Bills do not prorate bonuses and some guarantees, so that $20 million figure you throw around doesn’t go as far as it does with other teams that push bonus money into future seasons.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
Still, it seems “pinched budget” is inaccurate. That was the first thing that struck me too.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
“Pinched budget” is my term, and I used it specifically to allude to my previous comment.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Can you explain the bills method of salaries vs other teams methods? I know the bills use a method called cash to cap, but I don’t really know what that means.
by Gr8fulnfa on Feb 20, 2012 9:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cash to cap means exactly what I said in my previous comment: rather than prorating signing bonuses, the Bills pay them up front, so as to keep cash free for future seasons. So, for example, Ryan Fitzpatrick got a $10 million signing bonus when he signed his new deal in October; most teams would’ve paid most of that in future seasons, but the Bills cut him a $10M check and counted it toward their 2011 budget.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Actually now that I think about it, bonuses don’t matter in this case correct? If you franchise Stevie then doesn’t he just get a flat $9.4 million dollars? If they negotiate a new contract with a relatively modest salary but solid signing bonus, wouldn’t that cost almost as much this year?
There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not
by PozDispenser on Feb 20, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
How does the 2011 rollover to the 2012 cap fit into the equation? Wasn’t Buffalo something lime $20 million under the cap in 2011 which basically gets added to why the team CAN spend in 2012?
I wasn't sure I was going to like the white helmets but seeing them in the practice footage, I've got to say that I love the look.
by Ron From NM on Feb 20, 2012 10:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Until I hear that the Bills are actually going to roll cap money over, I’m not even considering it.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Care to say how it will make you feel if they choose not to roll it over?
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly don’t know. I’m highly indifferent to that particular line of thought at the moment.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
That’s fair. However, I think I know how i’ll feel.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’m quite positive that ill be unhappy. Why not make use of the cap room, even if only to offset the balloon cap hit of a deal? The fact that the bills have 2011 cap space to roll over makes it clear that cash to cap is just a meaningless slogan…
I wasn't sure I was going to like the white helmets but seeing them in the practice footage, I've got to say that I love the look.
by Ron From NM on Feb 20, 2012 1:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
If they don’t feel they need that money to improve in 2012, then I don’t feel they need my money to improve their income either.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
ditto
I’ve been holding off on getting an away Jersey mainly because I was going to get a 13 instead of going with the ANONYMOUS nameplate I usually get. If Johnson walks there’s no point in getting a 13 and seemingly little point in buying bills gear at all.
Whatever happened to the Rumblings store idea?
I wasn't sure I was going to like the white helmets but seeing them in the practice footage, I've got to say that I love the look.
by Ron From NM on Feb 20, 2012 4:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can see absolutely no reason not to take the money.
If they don’t want to spend it on FAs, spend it on Byrd/Levitre/Wood and get their bonuses out of the way and make their extensions much more cap-friendly in the long haul.
"Everyone who has conducted an expedition will know how ready the world is to do the great injustice of heaping the whole praise or blame for its success or failure on the shoulders of the leader alone."
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by NordicBillsfan on Feb 20, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If it's a "meaningless slogan" then why do a majority of teams use it now?
It’s an accounting method, nothing more, nothing less.
Teams learned you can’t mortgage the future for a 1-2 year run.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Other teams may actually mean what they say
If the Bills can roll some unused cap space from 2011 into 2012 and choose not to do it then the Bills will have spent less than cash to cap in 2011 and, by not rolling it over, spend less than cash to cap in 2012.
I have no issue with cash to cap if that is, indeed, what Buffalo does. To do less, as the Bills did in 2011 and may do in 2012, means that the Bills are doing something other than cash to cap.
I wasn't sure I was going to like the white helmets but seeing them in the practice footage, I've got to say that I love the look.
by Ron From NM on Feb 20, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The only problem is cap space is not an accurate measure of how much a team spends. The Cowboys had 18.2mil in space according to the same report. Does that make the cowboys cheap?
There were only 12 teams within 5mil of the cap last year. The only true way to determine how much a team spends is to look at cash spent on players during that year.
We handed out 2 large extensions last year along with a middling one for Pears.
I’ve never thought we were one of the biggest spenders in FA just because it didn’t fit our philosophy. We’ve spent money on players, we just haven’t spent it on good players.
Basically, I view it more as a talent evaluation issue as opposed to a budgetary one.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Cap space is also an inaccurate gauge for the exact OPPOSITE reasons though, too
because teams that are established winners, are a place that is more desirable to be, and so they can undercharge for talent. New England has employed this mentality very well. It really is all about winning: If you win… Then you hold all the cards, giving you the best shot at chips, if you will.
By being a winning organization, guys want to play there, and your leverage doesn’t all come down to money. Chan has said this himself. Not that it should make it more/less relevant than if he hadn’t said it. I simply think it is something to note since it is the very mentality that our team leaders are employing.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
teams that are established winners, are a place that is more desirable to be, and so they can undercharge for talent. New England has employed this mentality very well.
They also continue to trade down at draft time and stock pile picks~~~they make me sick that they are so efficient…………
.
Football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority.
Vince Lombardi
Only the Patriots, really…and they draft terribly (save for Hernandez and Gronk).
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
Mayo?
Chung? Wolfork?
No less terrible than we do. I mean, they make way more selections, and they miss out on guys, and their moving tends to do little more than save them money but still… they manage to find players, and field better teams than many (most?) teams in the league. I have rattled off the reasons I think this is the case, a number of times. Doesn’t make it any MORE desirable to come here in Free agency.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 21, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but drafting better than the Bills does not make you a good drafter.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
no question
and yet….
Which team’s record/playoffs/Super Bowls would you rather have? They are clearly better at building teams in general. Because they do something a lot of teams have trouble with.
They win.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 21, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
No brainer, comparing Bill’s vs Pat’s franchise wise. Hands down Bill’s are better:) Dumb Pat’s org. They could learn from us.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 21, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
We haven’t made the playoffs in 12 years and have the option of spending 20mm more to get competitive, and you’re indifferent at the moment ? What’s to debate/think about ?
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
by radan on Feb 20, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't they just account for the full amount now?
A $10M bonus may be paid out over a certain amount of time, but under the cash to cap, don’t they apply $10M to the cap for the year even if it isn’t paid right away?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Regarding Bill's
Whatever benefits shareholders/family gains supercedes winning or even thinking about winning by a record 12 yrs. is all I need to hear. Its really simple. Look at history of org. But feel free to think this upcoming yr. is gonna be better than last 12 yrs. Cattle circle too.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 21, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but again, we still have cap money to roll in from last year. And I can’t believe that we’re the only team in the NFL that does not prorate bonuses and some guarantees. If I’m correct, then how do those teams manage to sign their important free agents and keep on a balanced budget? Its not like Stevie is going to bring in Calvin Johnson money here.
There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not
by PozDispenser on Feb 20, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
Although what you say is true.....
It is no real excuse, let’s compete, let’s fire the bean-counter…..
My hope meter for that 21 million in ralph’s swollen pocket, has the needle buried under zero….
And the sad thing is we really are close, is it not too much to ask to retain our own players and add a couple?
To, you know, try to win?!
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Feb 20, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
There may be other reasons. Perhaps they don’t want to settle on that method. Doing so means they’ve given up and were unable to come to a compromise on a contract. Most players hate the tag (not sure why, i’d love guaranteed money like that for one year of work). So it may be that they don’t want to devalue their players by tagging them without a long-term commitment.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Choosing not to franchise can also be a sign of good-faith negotiations.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I meant to say that also.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
The 20 million
Under cash-to-cap, the 20 million number is sliced almost in half with a 9.4 million franchise tag hit. They’ll also have to budget some spending this year for draft picks, which is still probably north of $5 million, even with the new rookie salary scale. On top of that, they’ll need to spend at least some money on filling in roster spots like LB, even if they go with scrap heap type veterans. Add to that a few million for restricted free agents and there isnt much $ free. The real wildcard is whether they choose to roll over last years cap room and take that into account under their cash-to-cap philosophy.
They have a cap to cash rule.....
But it only counts one way……
If they’re 30 million under the cap, that’s OK, but don’t push a nickel of that bonus to next year!
PodunkO - The great post ender!
by podunkowego on Feb 20, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
But if they try to sign him to a long term deal
That would cost them more up front than a tag would….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Add the rookies and you’re just a little bit of money.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 20, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
He is as good as gone now
They are not willing to put the tag on him? They probably don’t want to give him more than 5 mill. He will get his 8 with someone else easily. Good luck to Stevie, whos next?
On a side note
Since we do have a ton of money we should just give it all the Kelsay. Why give it to Stevie….just give it all to Kelsay and Fitzpatrick…frustrating
by csc06258 on Feb 20, 2012 9:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
this “no franchise tag” b/c of cash to the cap doesn’t make sense to me. If the Bills sign him to a long term deal, the signing bonus + 1st year’s salary will be more than the franchise player tag. And since the Bills count what they spend, the long term deal would cost them more this year in actual dollars paid to SJ than the franchise tag would
by jonramz on Feb 20, 2012 10:03 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Well said jonramz
Something seems fishy here.
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Feb 20, 2012 10:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Now see...
My conclusion was that James Walker doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Citi Field loves the mets so much it smothers them. -the caveman
They can keep first-year base salary relatively small, guarantee years of salary and give him a $5ish million signing bonus and come in under that $9.4 million figure fairly easily.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
You mean
if they basically did a 5 year 40 million with a 5 million bonus
1st year would be 4 million plus 5 million bonus
2nd 9 Million
3rd 9 Million
4th 9 million
5th 9 million
They can't have more than a 30% difference in salary from year to year so you're example couldn't happen.
It was a mechanism the union put in place before last year to prevent clubs from backloading contracts.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Brian, there is no way that SJ only gets a $5 million bonus, unless they guarantee the majority of the contract
A 5 year deal for $35 mil, (pretty reasonable) would include at least a $10-15 bonus
by jonramz on Feb 20, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point
They would have to do something closer to 7 million bonus plus the 2 million in salary, then go 9.5 Million every year after that for five years. But that is the max bonus he can get with a 5 year deal going cash to cap at roughly 8 million a year. So id imagine the signing bonus is what is throwing off the contract. He must be asking for a 10 million bonus, which would mean a cap hit of about 14 million. I agree with Jonramz….no way the franchise tag would be more than what they will have to pay him if they want him resigned. Franchise tag would save money with cash to cap.
if he signs a 5 year deal it will be worth atleast $45 million, they should give him a $15 million bonus from last season then the could have a cap hit for 5 years of only $5million
true
But Brian is goind with the assumption they arent rolling that money over, if they give him a 15 million bonus, that is basically all of their existing 20 million cap space.
No, a five-year, $35 million deal would include at least $10-15 million in guarantees. Kyle Williams got $17 million in guarantees, but only $4.75 million of it was a non-prorated signing bonus.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
right, so we are in agreement that you are assuming the Bills are going to guarantee the majority of his contract.
Guaranteeing the future years of the contract are basically the only way they can say the franchise tag will cost them more this current year.
They would have to do the following… they say we will do 5 years 35 mil at 5,6,7,8,9 mil/year respectfully and guarantee 5 mil / year for the next 3 years.
That is a way to get save money this year… and that’s 15 mil guaranteed
Whether or not that is a smart decision is for the 2 parties to decide. I would assume they would have to guarantee more money in future years to make up for a smaller up front signing bonus as the future value of money is always discounted when compared to the present value
right, so we are in agreement that you are assuming the Bills are going to guarantee the majority of his contract.
I think so, but your example includes guarantees comprised solely of guaranteed future salaries. The Bills have never done that, and wouldn’t do it with Stevie. Nor would the “majority” of his deal be guaranteed.
If Johnson gets $8.5 million per season – let’s say four years, $34 million – I could envision $15 million in guarantees with a $5-6 million signing bonus and a first-year salary in the $2-3 million range. Thereby saving them millions. Then the rest of the guarantees would come in $1-2M chunks of salary and various roster bonuses over future seasons.
Not even Ryan Fitzpatrick – a quarterback – had the “majority” of his deal guaranteed ($59 million, $24 million in guarantees). He did, however, have a bunch of it paid up front. That was offset by the fact that the six years were tacked onto the final year of his then-current deal, meaning that they wrote $10 million of that $24 million – his signing bonus – into a year not included in the actual extension.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I agree… majority was the incorrect word. I should have said sizable amount of his contract. Also I was interchanging bonus w/ guaranteed money which was also incorrect.
I still stand by the fact that if they give him a $6 mil signing bonus and a 1st year’s salary of $3 mil, that is $9 mil in the first year already. Which is basically the tag amount. Saying the tag is off the table is terrible negotiating
Regarding Fitz.. he basically got $33 mil over 3 years as long as he is on the team.
Also I disagree that they would be able to stretch out the guarantees over the life of the contract. Most of the guarantees are fulfilled within the 1st 3 years.
I think Santonio Holmes got 5 yr 45 mil, 24 mil guaranteed with over half of it paid in the 1st 3 years. SJ will get less than that I hope…
They wouldn’t give him a $3 million base salary. That’s what Fitzpatrick played at last year. I’d look for a guaranteed base salary and signing bonus combination that totals around $7 million.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully is just posturing
until the two sides meet at the combine.
I know the associated press is the source here but I would like to know the name of the person behind it. It seems lazy and unprofesional to do it like this.
It’s provably unsubstantiated because it’s just his agent spreading BS.
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Feb 20, 2012 10:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nix commented a while back that they want a big fast receiver… a guy who is open even when he isn’t.
Could we be seeing this plan playing out? ie. Why spend money on a guy who makes his living with the juke, when we can spend it on a guy who flat out dominates?
The question is, who is this dominant receiver they’re saving up for?
just speculating.
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I was giving them away
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i would appreciate...
re-signing stevie. he´s a young developable wr and a real part of bills nation as well in my opinion. if OBD can´t manage it they HAVE TO hire 2 proven wr instead to succeed in 2012 in my opinion. and that might be much more expensive than re-signing SJ…
by billssupporterfromeurope on Feb 20, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions
I just hope they are not banking on being able to draw in VJ or Bowe if they don’t sign Stevie. #1 they won’t be able to outbid or sign any of those guys…they don’t want to be in Buffalo…#2 I’d rather have Stevie over any FA. He has developed into a great WR that has a good chemistry with the guy we just gave 60 million too.
good points.
i think in resigning stevie, taking an intensive look at easley at the camp (i´m still hoping that he will turn out to be the beast some people are reporting that he was), signing a proven, speedy wr on the other side (we have to wait and see how clowney will perform) and keeping some of the existing wr-corps should let us have a really competitive starting lineup and enough depth for the season.
by billssupporterfromeurope on Feb 20, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
yea basically it will be a huge set back if they do not resign him. It is the perfect example of why we are so horrible. We let good talent walk and try to draft replacements that do not even closely pan out. We all know the examples. This is just another notch on their belt if they do not get this done. They will try to replace him with some WR in the draft that has no experience in the league or with Fitz. If they draft a wide out in the first round, they are going to have to pay him at least 5 million a year. I’d rather give 7 million to a guy I know is already good and has developed a good connection with our so called franchise quarterback which is highly debatable if he is a franchise QB…this team is a mess, bottom line. Where is that Nix poll, I disapprove now if he can’t get this simple and obvious task or resigning his best 25 year old player
by csc06258 on Feb 20, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If they can’t get Stevie signed long term, they have to find new managment.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Very frustrating.
I know there is always 2 sides to every story… But, if hes asking for less than $9mil a year, then get this deal done.
I can’t imagine them not signing Stevie for less than 7.5/year, which means to me that you won’t see OBD go after VJax, Bowe, Colston or DeSean, they’ll all get that+.
Lets Go Buff a lo!
by bflo on Feb 20, 2012 11:03 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Exactly. So if they’re going to risk losing Stevie, they’re likely not going to play the FA market as most think they should.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Routt
Hopefully the cap problem is because they are trying to sign Routt right now too. Once Routt signs anywhere they will know what’s available for Steve, Bell and Chandler.
Just trying to see the glass half full.
by BillsofVA on Feb 20, 2012 11:22 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
BUT
if they sign Routt they will be cutting atleast 1 of these 3, Meklvin, Mcgee, Florence, Rogers and Williams will be the starters in 2012, Bell is a back up LT or maybe a starting RT or RG, not worth that much, Chandler can be replaced late in the draft if not by the guys on the roster already, Stevie has to much of TO in him to be happy in Buffalo
I guess we will find out today
They are reporting Routt is making his decision today
Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves...deliberately into paranoid situations.
by christopher.j on Feb 20, 2012 12:26 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think he’s going to KC. Familiarity with the division, change to stick it to the Raiders. Defensive-minded coach.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
and you are correct
I guess Raiders fans like the move..maybe Buffalo will look smarter for not getting into a bidding was
Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves...deliberately into paranoid situations.
by christopher.j on Feb 20, 2012 3:08 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
the source should reveal the offers; or why I remain optimistic
Just reporting they aren’t close without giving details doesn’t do anything but cause anxiety. This source should have given more details to show that they really are familiar with the talks like how far apart they are; how different are the terms; signing bonuses etc. For all we know it was a junior agent or mail clerk selling information they heard about the Bills and Stevie not being close to a final deal, when in reality they could be very close to a tentative deal but need a face-to-face to hammer out the details and finer points.
This story was a top story in profootballtalk (NBC), ESPN, and a top story in SI.com. This is clearly giving the AP the SEO they need to remain viable in the market. Yes they are a news service but they are also a business: sensationalism sells; just look to how many stories are reporting this today.
I’m going to remain calm and wait until the combine
Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves...deliberately into paranoid situations.
by christopher.j on Feb 20, 2012 11:29 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Just reporting they aren’t close without giving details doesn’t do anything but cause anxiety.
That’s the point from the player’s perspective.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 20, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Let him walk - No great loss for that much money.
Ravens don’t have elite receivers, or do the 49ers. I think they can sign two wide receivers that are just as good for the money they give out to Johnson!
Until the Bills become legitimate playoff team, no reason to spend that type of money. Chris Kelsey is prime example. Only players deserving of that type of money are Eric Wood, Dareus and Kyle Williams.
So Dareus deserves that type of money after one season of routine work?
Stevie Johnson has played WELL BEYOND his draft status. He made Lee Evans and Terrell Owens expendable. Don’t sell him short.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure you can claim that Stevie Johnson made Terrell Owens expendable. In Owens’ final (and only) season with the Bills, Johnson had two catches. Owens was made expendable by a new regime looking to get young.
Editor-in-Chief, BUFFALO RUMBLINGS®
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I know it’s not correct to say that. I meant it to be indirect. Stevie’s production has made people forget about Owens and Evans.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
Anquan Boldin is pretty damn good. Torrey Smith is the real deal, they have two young, real atheltic TE’s. None of them are “Elite” but neither is Stevie… Elite: Calvin, Larry, Andre.
Lets Go Buff a lo!
Both of them put up David Nelson like numbers.
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by twoeightnine on Feb 20, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Except that Boldin and Smith see majority of the coverage..
whereas Nelson finds space in the middle of the field in a pass happy offense.
Lets Go Buff a lo!
In my opinion, there is no way Stevie doesn't hit free agency
He’s less than a month away…why would he sign a contract now, when he can only negotiate with one team, instead of a month from now, when he could potential negotiate with 32 teams?
I’m don’t know the specifics, but I would guess that the percentage of players who get this close to free agency that then sign a deal before reaching free agency is slim.
A big part of signing with the hometown team and not waiting until free agency is that you get your new contract done while there are still games to be played on your old contract…thus, getting a new amount of guaranteed money and cutting out the risk that you suffer a career-threatening injury in the season/games leading up to free agency/your new contract. But if there are no games to be played and your a month away from being able to negotiate with 32 teams instead of 1? Why would you sign a deal early?
I think Stevie waits for free agency to start now before signing a deal. Just my opinion.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
if he does want to test FA i would say F*** him and Franchise him, then he can sign the deal you offer or trade his A**
Why hate on him if he wants to see what he’s worth to the league? What if you had an opportunity to do so in your career. What if people hated you for wanting to put yourself in the best situation?
It’s a business and the decisions they make aren’t personal towards the fans. This isn’t a Brian Cox situation.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I agree with this, although I think he probably has already received some indication from other teams as far as what he is worth (despite the fact that this would be “tampering” under NFL rules). This leaked story (presumably from his agent) is likely an attempt to solicit further informal feedback on what teams would offer if/when he hits the market. The only weapon the Bills have left is the franchise tag, which would force him to play on a deal that would pay him a lot this year, but offer him no long term security in the event that he suffers a career threatening injury or has a down year.
use the $20 million from last season
give it to Stevie up front and then you give him a 6year, $50 million, $30 million guaranteed 20 million from last year then he would only be a $5 million cap hit
I think my family and I could live off of almost $10 million for rest of our collective lives.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
$10M invested with only a 2.0% return would give you $200,000.00 per year. After Uncle Sam takes his bite you would still have upwards of $135,000.00. That’s more than twice what I have.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Feb 20, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that there are taxes to pay, but still. I’d definitely have my 1986 Porsche 911 930 T 3.3, and likely a Ferrari FF for the winter roads.
But you’re doing okay if you’re only half away from that value. I chose the wrong career path.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure exactly the point of this post. My post was agreeing with your first post.
I think it is a shame that so many ball players in any sport cannot manage money to a reasonable degree.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Feb 20, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure
Lots of people “could” live off less than they do, but rarely do you see them take the same exact job for less money. This is Stevie’s chance to really cash in and there’s no reason why he won’t or shouldn’t. He could get injured this year and that may be the last money he ever sees. At a minimum, its likely going to be the only big deal he’ll get, as he’ll be over 30 when signing his next deal.
I’m definitely not saying he should take less. I think he should and applaud him for paving his way to this opportunity. I simply bummed myself out thinking how these players dislike 1-year deals because it doesn’t provide the long-term financial stability. That franchise tag amount is likely more than i’ll see in my life. It’s not comparable, obviously, but I don’t think these star athletes fully comprehend how lucky they are to have the money “problems” they do.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed 100%.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Feb 20, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
makes sense to me...
but stevies management IS already negotiating with OBD. they already HAVE exchanged proposals and they WILL meet at the combine. only for keeping the wire to OBD as a last exit if other negotiations fail? i guess that would be a waste of time for stevies management.
if stevies management would act as you stated above there wouldn´t be a proposal from their side i guess… they would wait for offers on the FA, and i guess these offers would be much higher than OBD is even able to pay… so, for me the current negotiation with OBD seems to be an order from stevie showing that he personally would like to stay in buffalo. and maybe he´s interested in closing the deal before FA starts to give him time to concentrate on other things than thinking about contract-offers, how offering teams are set up and what role he can play in a potential new team, etc.
but we´ll see…
by billssupporterfromeurope on Feb 20, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
On the other hand
The closer this gets to free agency the more pressure the team feels to resign him. They know there will be a backlash from the fans and perhaps even some players (fitz maybe). Also it creates more pressure because you don’t want to lose him and create a bigger hole as well.
I don’t think a deal gets done until within the week when the bills finally cave in and accept his offer or something much closer to his offer. The pressure is more on the bills and not on Stevie.
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Feb 20, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
If they where close we would of signed him already. Negotiations usually start off far apart. both start off at extremely high ends and low ends. I still think if we sign him it will be right before.fa begins. If he hits the open market buffalo will not be able to afford him.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Feb 20, 2012 12:04 PM EST via Android app reply actions
So why would Stevie even do that? (sign right before free agency)
You say yourself that if he hits free agency then the Bills likely wouldn’t be able to afford him…don’t you think Stevie & his agent know that too?
If your answer is that he really likes Buffalo and wants to stay here…well, he could still hit free agency, at least listen to what other teams official offers are, and then come back and resign in Buffalo. In this instance, he would at least know what the other teams were willing to offer, and have piece of mind in his decision (that he didn’t turn down some crazy amount of money by resigning with Buffalo before free agency).
I see no scenario where Stevie signs before free agency now. The time to get a deal done was before the season, or the first half of season. If Stevie didn’t want to negotiate during season, then before the season was only real opportunity.
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
by StroudFanClub on Feb 20, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Stevie seems to want to stay in buffalo imo. I believe if a deal he likes gets offered he would sign it. I also think stevie is smart enough to take a crazy deal that he will get in fa imo. There are too many teams with to much ca
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Cap space for him to not get one.
"This is a chance to shine some light on the city, They say it’s too cold. I’m going to bring some warmth to it." Marcell Dareus
by matthew62 on Feb 20, 2012 12:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree. I think he didn’t want to get a deal done until he saw where he netted out this past season. Given he likely knew he could become the first Bills WR with back-to-back 1000 yard campaigns likely perked his ears up. (Sure, it’s a passing era now, but it’s still an accomplishment on any level). So I think he treats his value now the same way. He’s likely going to want to see what other teams think about him.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Many players ink new deals just before FA starts. There is a lot to be said for familiarity.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
USE THE $20 million from last year
give it to Stevie up front and then you give him a 6year, $50 million, $30 million guaranteed 20 million from last year then he would only be a $5 million cap hit
Symptomatic
Players will often take under market value to remain part of an organization. It’s especially true for contending teams. That’s rare with the Bills, and obviously isn’t the case here.
I'm just not ready to worry yet.
Living in Louisiana, I ask my employees daily about any progress the saints have made resigning players. Everyday, the answer is no one knows. Until I start to hear that other teams are resigning their big names with regularity, I am not going to worry about how far along discussions in Buffalo have gone.
"Nick Barnett is everywhere. He is behind you right now." - Munchausen
by RedStickBillsFan on Feb 20, 2012 12:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this is a great point
everyone gets so nervous that Stevie is unsigned and we won’t sign him. But as you said, look at all of the top teams saints, pats, Welker, Colston. Meachem, Brees all still unsigned.
Mario Williams.
i agree
i also think to some degree, and i have mentioned this in regards to Steve before, that waiting for free agency might mean adding competitors to the mix; it also helps assess the “going rate” for some of these guys, and can be a wake up call for some of these free agents. while waiting is something of a gamble, it can also be seen as a calculated risk. As in Steve expects X amount, and finds that NO team is willing to pay that amount. That can be the case, as much as ALL teams would pay this rate… in some instances. While I expect agents/NFL personnel to understand what a person is worth… A person is worth whatever the highest bidder will pay. Sometimes, those things help you, other times they hurt you, but in some ways, you still have to just “roll the dice” and see what happens. I think it smart to consider that Steve’s agents’ potential overestimation (to further line his pocket) could be a factor in why we are waiting; another might be that we want to gauge other team’s relative interest in him, before committing to those amounts, particularly if we can have the leverage, and we don’t need to pay the figure that is being asked for. I do know that the other teams interest is more likely to drive the number up, than not, and that we should still be trying to reach a goal of signing before free agency actually begins.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
right
but also, many teams don’t have Stevie being a top 5 wr target in FA. Depending who is still left unsigned by March he could be, but at the moment no.
Mario Williams.
exactly. that is just furthering what i am saying
his agent is saying “I am getting these numbers tossed around at me.”
and we are saying… “You mean… more like these numbers???”
Agent: “Nope. I was right the first time.”
Us: “Uh… Hmm… Okay… We will see then, won’t we?”
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
and then hopefully, the interest is more where we think it is, rendering our offer more reasonable
and then they have a platform…
If we are wrong though- we are going to pay for it. Or he is gone. I take “A” over “B” myself. Hopefully they realize in trying to get a bargain, they are going to look like cheapskates; because the only one’s losing, will be US, if they let him go, because we just need to replace him, anyway then… and someone else gets all the time we invested in him developing into a good player.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think we sign him
They are trying to get him at a price where they cab add their big tall wr who is “open when their not open.”
So if they can’t get Steve for what they feel they need to, then we will let him walk and bring in 2 wr’s instead of one.
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
by billsoferie on Feb 20, 2012 12:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
But,
If theyre not willing to spend ~8mil on Stevie, why would they shell out ~10mil to VJax?
Lets Go Buff a lo!
They won’t. You’ll see more experiments, I say.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Those are the names I was looking for but, sadly, could not recall.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 20, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
hahaah
recd.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
because they think he is better
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
I hope Im wrong...
Because if they let Stevie go, replacing him with VJax would make me forget 13… but knowing how this organization has worked in the past… I just dont think that not giving Stevie $8mil, would mean $10mil to VJax… but like I said, I hope Im wrong
Lets Go Buff a lo!
yeah...
Its just the feeling i have.
Id rather have Stevie and a better #2 than just V. Jackson
"The Buffalo Bills have just exploded all over the Cincinnati Bangles"
-Steve Tasker-
by billsoferie on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
That I could be happy with.
But I just get a bad feeling about how our whole WR situation is going to go down. Especially now with Hagan potentially being an option. Idk… just nervous, thats all.
Lets Go Buff a lo!
funny
Why does this fanbase extoll virtue of unproven talent? Oh because its the Bill’s. SJ over VJ amazing. Next we’ll want Fitz over Aaron Rodgers:)
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 21, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Bill Polian....
Was fired for challenging the bean-counter…
He wanted to sign Will Wolford before he became a FA….
To do so, the Bills needed to push money into the future.
Bills told them that Will was a main cog in they’re superbowl aspirations.
An unreplaceable one.
He told them that if Will hits FA his price tag is going to skyrocket.
He told them that when he came to buffalo he was told he be given every shot to win a superbowl.
His speech fell on deaf ears, so he raised his voice to help them hear, but this only got him fired.
Wolford, in the top three of the best modern BB O- lineman, hit the FA, got a ridiculous contract from the Colts, and the Bills line hasn’t been top-notch since.
This is of extra interest I think with Demitri hitting FA and Ralph pocketing 21 million, like he does in most years….
Although, I remember another time when we were spending to cap. I remember because Tom Donahue made a horrible mistake. He signed lawyer milloy to huge bucks which brought the up to cap and Antoine Winfield walk to Minnesota….just a terrible decision at the time, no doubt about it.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
Winfield left
Before Milloy was a Bill. Milloy didn’t join the Bills until after being cut by new England right before the 2003 season. Winfield left right after the 2002 season before the 2003 preseason (when we signed Milloy).
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Feb 20, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Supporting the Buffalo Bills under Ralph Wilson is about as fun as picking out some random company and becoming emotionally invested in their profit margins each quarter. For them to continue to behave as if their backs are against the wall in terms of their budget would be hilarious if it wasn’t so disgusting and more emphatically, just plain predictable. Nix, Brandon, Overdorf, Gailey- they are all just Wilson’s corporate accountants to me at this point. I say this without a sliver of hyperbole- I see no team in all of North American sports that uses their long-suffering fans as nothing more than an ATM more so than OBD does. The Pittsburgh Pirates are probably the only legitimate challenger.Of course, they’d like to win, but it just isn’t all that important to Ralph Wilson overall.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
by Port Royal on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Well said!
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Feb 20, 2012 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know.....
Nix and Gailey are football men….. I would say they want a superbowl more than I do….I know a superbowl win would feel anticlimactic to me. I think I like the getting real good and building up from an underdog part the best….. We could be there this year, with a little luck, spending cash to cap philosophy (meaning they will spend last year’s 21 mill and go to the cap this year) and a lotta skill. Signing the right guys at the best rate, drafting the right guys etc. It is very hard, but we now have a lot of good pieces…..ie the o-line minus left tackle, DT position, RB position, S position, Barnett and Sheppard, Fitz, Nelson, and numbers at corner. We just need 3 of these four positions dramatically updated before the draft…. Both wr. spots and both DE spots…..and then Nix’s best draft to date…. I can feel it! He is a great GM! His system is now in place, he just needs the money.
But yes, it seems Wilson has bled every penny he could out of western ny for 51 years….
I sure hope he has given something back……
I just hope they are better at getting their way than the screaming Polian…..
I would have screamed too…..
PodunkO - The great post ender!
It's especially funny and sad
considering the NFL prints money.
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by twoeightnine on Feb 20, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, Recd
This is going to be a very revealing offseason and I agree with your prediction based on past history. Given our performance, where we sit relative to the salary cap, and the fact the Bills make north of 75mm a year in profit, it’s inexcusable not to be active in free agency. Let’s hope Ralph and his front office of yes men surprise us.
It was Cookie's turn to lead the "easiest exercise" during the Monday practice after a game-- he said-- "we're going to do deep breathing--everybody inhale--dehale "---As told by Jack Kemp at my high school sports banquet circa 1966.
I see no team in all of North American sports that uses their long-suffering fans as nothing more than an ATM more so than OBD does.
The Glazers owners of the Bucs have just blown by Ralph and the rest of the NFL as the cheapest owners in the NFL………… They are close to $70 million under the cap!!!
.
Football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority.
Vince Lombardi
Oh Boy
Do they hold record for least play-off appearances? I remember when buc’s fans wore bags. Were like them now, thats sad.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 21, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I am nervous. I want johnson to bill for a long time. If he wants 9m a year, give it to him.
"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."
by chaucer on Feb 20, 2012 1:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I know that some have grown to expect a let down
But this team has made positive changes, and they are performing well under their most crucial change: coaching. Let these guys dictate their needs, and see what they’re working with when the combine ends. If Stevie is not signed by then, they could be saving that dough for a FA acquisition. Have faith.
by buffalojackson on Feb 20, 2012 6:17 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Have Faith
I gotta lifetime of faith, but even thats running out! Maybe a decade is a little to long OBD.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 20, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Steve, draft Floyd
end the first day knowing the offense is basically set.
Spend all remaining picks on DEs, LBs, CBs (that can be safeties too) and know that as long as we find at least ONE pass rusher, that we are already better off than we ended last season, with potential/capability existing in all areas of the team. We have added some depth, we will add more this year (whether the young guys push the older ones back, or the young guys back the older guys up; we have potential talent along with capable starters at MOST positions)… and that as long as we get a buncha young guys to get after the QB (draft, undrafted free agents, releases from other teams, canadian league.. rugby.. basketball…. nobody cares where or how- just do it) then we are already likely to be competitive.
With TWO good WRs, a capable TE (could be any of them), a couple solid runners (CJ + Choice+ White, and maybe even Hall, even if Fred held out) and the QB we plan on having, with the returning line (or most of it) from last year…. That offense has as much potential as we were meeting this year, and maybe even more.
If we use last years’ draft as any kind of barometer, coupled with the potentials we found in the first draft (Troup, Carrington, Moats)…. Then we can expect to find players at least in rounds 2-4. That is three new players on defense, plus any holdovers (the aforementioned 3, plus Dareus, Sheppard, Williams, Searcy, Chris White, Justin Rogers) plus any undrafteds, and maybe a FA or two…. we have got most of the key pieces in place, capable guys at least in the rest, and some back ups that either have experience, or potential. This roster already more closely resembles an NFL roster, than ones we have had in quite some time, at least IMO.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
should have noted
the we would have two good ones at least; Nelson is another good one, and couple that with Easley, Aiken, Naaman, Clowney, AND Hagan and Martin- we are BOUND to end up with at least 5 capable (assuming Floyd, Steve, Nelson are the first three I could take almost any combination of the next two or three, and not be disappointed. Well maybe Hagan, Martin, Clowney. ANY other combination would be solid) wide receivers, and probably more like 6 or 7 when Aiken and Easley end up on the practice squad (assuming Easley is still eligible).
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
have to disagree
WRs, CBs are overrated IMO. Pass rush is everything. Draft mid round WR, CBs, address pass rush early and often. along with an OT, and maybe a developmental QB.
Mario Williams.
WR's that could be...
but CB’s arent, and shouldnt be over-rated. Especially in todays NFL.
Lets Go Buff a lo!
well
my reasoning is the Patriots, the packers. Terrible secondaries, Great teams. All about the pass rush, and a great QB. Don’t care to discuss about if Fitz is good/great or not. But great defenses have a great pass rush, balt, pitt.
Mario Williams.
Patriots' terrible secondary lost them a Super Bowl
and their “GREAT” WRs dropped the ball, and lost them a Super Bowl.
I agree it is a passing league. So how then are WRs not important? I mean, if not for QB; wouldn’t WRs be the MOST IMPORTANT pieces to a good passing game? If we say, had a capable QB, and line to protect him (as we demonstrated at least in the beginning of the season?) So, how in the heck do they not matter? I am beginning to feel like NO pieces matter, except the ONE piece that we want. Pass rusher. Yeah, i get it. RBs are useless, no one runs. We don’t need to draft OL, we find them wherever. We are good at QB, unless we are starting the injured guy half a year, instead of the other guy. We don’t need corners, the pass rusher helps that. I mean…. come on. At some point, the needs equal out to being EQUALLY important, in the whole puzzle. As long as all needs are addressed, then IDK what else matters. The less chances you have, to get good players, the early you should pick them. I think that I would take the very good WR, if he was there, over the questionable pass rusher. We can take questionable pass rushers anytime.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
sorry for attaching that rant in there too
But honestly, I don’t understand when there are SO many options for defensive players (because we have SO MANY NEEDS), that we can afford to NOT take the most glaring need on offense, and then again burn our third entire draft on defenders. because clearly, our defense is the biggest need. it has consistently been the bane of our team. Even when the offense was playing well, the defense sometimes cost us the game. We played from behind a LOT. So I just think that if we are going to accept mediocrity at WR (like we have for 3 years) that our defense is even FURTHER hindering our development on offense. That seems like a self fulfilling prophecy where we continue to lose, because we sacrificed one side of the ball for the other. Improve both. I don’t see how later picks at WR, are better than the 8 question marks we have. I rather have ONE less question mark, personally. ESPECIALLY with no Stevie. That would be crazy to me.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
yea maybe
probably going to have to agree to disagree. I think a couple mid round WRs and resigning Stevie would give us a good young group. also a couple mid-late round CBs. Maybe bring in a mid tier CB. Address pass rush 2 of our first 3 picks, and Mario Williams :)
Mario Williams.
not good enough (all we have is mid to late WRs), not good enough (i am not hoping to hit on late rounders at corner every year), and.... you are dreaming.
That should just about cover it. hahaha.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 21, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
i just don’t think that we are likely to find Andre Reed in the third again, now that the Combine/Draft are so highly scrutinized. That’s all. We have a bunch of what you suggest pursuing… I want better. Doesn’t mean I will get it. I just want it. haha
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 21, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Packers
Are all about scoring with the pass. Not D
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
mid round WR??
yeah, we don’t have nearly enough of those.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 20, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
easley, clowney, hagan
4th, 5th, 3rd.
coupled with Easley, Martin, Nelson, Roosevelt as undrafted.
Steve was a 7th.
Maybe we burn ONE first rounder on a WR, one more time? I mean, Lee? He was our best 1st rounder since Moulds. We haven’t missed on a first round receiver, have we? Going back to ummm…. forever I think. Granted we don’t do it often (like, literally twice in the last 25 years, neither of which was a mistake) it has worked out pretty well when we have.
"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy."
~Socrates
by ThaRealTruth on Feb 21, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Scoring is over-rated. :(
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
by buffalobacker on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Hell yes
"I promise you, ... When I come back, I'm going to be like a mad dog in a meat house." -Takeo Spikes
by panekattack on Feb 20, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
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