Buffalo Bills Needs List: WR vs. CB For No. 3 Position
by Brian Galliford on Feb 7, 2012 9:18 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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In putting together our State of the Buffalo Bills Roster series, we asked the Buffalo Rumblings community to vote for the biggest offensive and defensive needs the team has entering the 2012 off-season. Now it's time to continue voting to merge those two lists into one community-developed needs list.
Bills fans are clearly still worried about the team's defense, as a pass-rushing defensive end and a 4-3 strong-side outside linebacker sit atop this community's collective needs list. Today's poll for the No. 3 position on the list comes down to wide receiver and cornerback.
At receiver, the Bills need a legitimate No. 2 receiving option to complement Stevie Johnson, who just happens to be an impending free agent. If the team can't retain Johnson, they'll need two starting receivers. At cornerback, the team has two young players they like (Aaron Williams most specifically), but also a trio of veterans that played poorly in 2011 and will make good money in 2012. Depth is needed, and better talent atop the depth chart is, as well.
Will the offense finally get some love on the needs list, or will the defense continue to reign supreme? You decide!
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Can I vote 1000 times for WR?
And I think the No. 4 need is pass rusher and not CB.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 7, 2012 9:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
What’s number 1 then?
"Aw snap, aw snap, come to my macaroni party and we'll take a nap!"
by J0ckam0 on Feb 7, 2012 9:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also Pass Rusher
"Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite time, and he’ll eventually release Maybin." - stetzwebs
by DanRoc on Feb 7, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We should get Avril or Williams in FA.
lofty I know but I am still going to hope. But then draft Dont’a hightower in the 1st. he can be the SLB and then he can move to DE in the nickel package to rush, instead of Kelsay/Carrington. He would knock out two need with one pick. Resign Stevie, draft a WR,CB and OT early rounds 2-4.
With the 10th Pick in the 2012 NFL Draft the Buffalo Bills select Dont'a Hightower LB Alabama.
as long as we're 'hoping'...
I hope the Bills make a solid run at FAs for three positions, in order of priority:
RDE – M.Williams or C.Avril < I’d try S.Merriman at 46 SAM… Pass rush? Fixed.
WR – D.Bowe or V.Jackson or M.Colston < I’d be very pleased with any of these guys opposite St.Johnson*.
CB – B.Carr (or T.Thomas?) < B.Carr and A.Williams makes a young, talented and tall top DB pairing.
(*Note: I’d resign, at minimum, all Bills FAs that had a reasonable chance to make the top 2 lines at their position – including franchising St.Johnson, if required, but I don’t think it is – and let training camp sort out who gets to play.)
Come draft time, at #10 I’m looking hard at R.Tannehill. If he’s not available or if the folks at OBD don’t like him that much, I’d be okay with a true, bona fide LT candidate – no reaching on this pick for me. In the second round, I’d look at either another pass rusher (RDE or SAM, I don’t care) or LT (if not already taken in the first). After that, I’m looking at BPA for the rest of the draft and hoping that includes a TE in there someplace.
"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." --Anais Nin
i would agree with that... but i would interchange CB with
WR/Passrusher/OT…so I can still see it as 1/2 or 3 or 4 or 5 round pick, depending on available talent. it is tough to simple say “biggest need= pick one” and so on, as you well know. But, I am as not concerned with when we pick said corner, because the 43 should allow a little more flexibility with not needing true Man-to-man corners. I still think the better your edges, the better your pass rush gets, just the way the better your pass rush, the less talented corners you need. so if we can do both- that would be ideal. I think pass rush/vertical weapons are needs 1/2 respective, LT/CB are a secondary need, and LT trumps CB as far as order goes. I still think though, that we should be seeing a WR/TE/CB/LT AND pass rushers being added this season. That is a lot of talent needed still. Especially for one draft/offseason.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
i somewhat agree...however i wouldnt disagree if took wr off the list..
If we resign stevie wr isn’t close to being a high priority. Looking at the position as a whole, including stevie, we may be one big deep threat away from having a great group. And that person may already be on the roster (easley, haggan). To me chemistry is more important than talent its at least as important as talent. And we should have plenty of chemistry there and I would have to say as a group above average talent. So in order for me to move wr up the list I’d have to be at a point to where I think we need at least 2 guys there and were not at that point yet.
However u cud say that about pass rusher and cb for sure. That’s why I list them ahead of wr and as of right now I may even put sam and tackle ahead of wr. Not having enough talent at wr is simply a conspiracy to cover fitz miscues and inconsistencies
by Shovel51 on Feb 7, 2012 6:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would say another pass rusher
In order then, Pass Rusher, ROLB, Pass Rusher, then I’m torn. I will say WR because I’d drool over having a guy like Floyd across from Stevie, with a healthy Easley, Nelson in the slot, and take your pick of Donald Jones/Roosevelt/whatever else. To counter myself though, if we think Fitz was hurt last year, and that it hampered his play, then I don’t see how WR is that big a gap in talent as CB. But I really would love to see that big, strong fast WR lined up opposite Stevie…it’d be fun to watch!
by buffaloparks on Feb 7, 2012 12:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
if i had a pick
my pick in the third round would probably be a developmental quarterback per se Nick Foles
In looking at that photo, Stevie looks as though he’s put on about 30lbs in all the wrong ways.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 9:28 AM EST reply actions
Can we flip this?
…, the Bills need a legitimate No. 2 receiving option to complement Stevie Johnson,…
How about a legitimate No. 1 receiving option, for Stevie to complement? Love Johnson’s route running ability, but I want sooo badly for that big, strong, fast (see Megatron) outside threat. Let Stevie terrorize D’s between the hash marks.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
The Bills are like your parents. You can’t choose them, and no matter how much they disappoint you, and no matter how much you want to hate them, you simply love them. - BuffaloOwdaTwnr
perfectly aware that a Megatron type WR to the Bills is a pipe dream. But I like pipe dreams…
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
The Bills are like your parents. You can’t choose them, and no matter how much they disappoint you, and no matter how much you want to hate them, you simply love them. - BuffaloOwdaTwnr
by BigBlkGr8Dane on Feb 7, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think Stevie is a WR1 for most teams. Johnson is a once in a generation-type player. He’s not the prototypical WR1.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
hence pipe dream.
Was going to try and come back with some sort of quip, but I think you’re right about #1 on most teams.
IMO – Teams where Stevie would not be #1 (prior to free agency):
Detroit
Houston
NY Giants
Cincinatti
Carolinia
Green Bay
San Fran
Philly
San Deigo
Pittsburgh
I am by no means trying to imply that Stevie would not be great, have a positive impact, or end up in a 1A/1B situation on any of these teams.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
The Bills are like your parents. You can’t choose them, and no matter how much they disappoint you, and no matter how much you want to hate them, you simply love them. - BuffaloOwdaTwnr
by BigBlkGr8Dane on Feb 7, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think he’d be WR1 in ’Frisco, Pittsburgh, and Philly under different circumstances (i.e. not Andy Reid).
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
#2 in Pitt are you crazy?
Mike wallace (1), antonio brown (2a), stevie (2b)
by billshabsriders on Feb 7, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Not crazy, actually. Their numbers are nearly identical. Add in the fact that Ben is a better QB than Ryan and they look even more similar.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a very short list, though. I agree with TAT, he’d be a number one (or at least vie for the number one spot) on most teams.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
exactly
Perhaps I wasn’t clear in the post. The list was to support TAT’s assertion that Steview would be #1 on most teams.
I started putting together the list to prove him wrong, and in turn proved myself wrong. Might as well still post the list.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
The Bills are like your parents. You can’t choose them, and no matter how much they disappoint you, and no matter how much you want to hate them, you simply love them. - BuffaloOwdaTwnr
by BigBlkGr8Dane on Feb 7, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
It’s pretty clear that WRs are important to a team’s success. Look at the Patriots. They’ve been avoiding them in the draft and such for years now, and as a result, their dink n dunk offense limited their success in the SB. A team needs elite players all over the offense, and amazing pressure up front on D. Everything else will sort itself out.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 9:45 AM EST reply actions
I would be perfectly fine with limited success in the SB. The bills proved early in the season that a good offensive system can cover up weak WR talent. The Patriots are the prime example. If we simply had WR’s that didn’t get injured we wouldnt have had CJ and Brad smith trying to stretch the field. That was our problem, no speed.
by billshabsriders on Feb 7, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Perfect Time to go CB
If not at number two. We will need some more youth brought into this group, some with some serious athleticism and size. I can honestly see Chix going early again at this position. They could go FA to get this person as well but I think they will focus more on DE and WR in FA.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I think it’d be a mistake to prioritize CB over WR in the draft.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
For this exercise, draft is irrelevant
IMHO, let’s address the simple question of need, then determine how to address those needs (draft, FA, developing players, trades). Just my take on the question posed. Of course I answered WR but not based on need, rather on how fun it would be to watch, so who am I to talk?! :)
by buffaloparks on Feb 7, 2012 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
not as long as we have to compensate to cover Tight Ends.
Now if Tight End was an option at #3 I may change my vote, but if we are not drafting a WR at #10, I would much rather add to the roster a WR that specializes in route running and reading the CB’s. That must come from FA and not the draft in the mid rounds. We currently employ a couple aging CB’s, we currently have a few younger ones that could potentially replace them, if that happens this year then CB will become a huge priority. I say address this year either in FA or the draft mid rounds.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde
I agree
Good corners are easier to find in middle rounds. Good receivers are usually gone by that point.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yup
as far as order goes… “Elite” WR are basically gone by the mid second. CBs are no easier to determine whether they can play past that point, but there always seems like there are more of them. Plus, good corners translate nearly instantly, and even amazing WRs sometimes take a year or two to come on in this league.
ABAYARDE IS NOSTRADAMUS JUST WATCH WE WILL NOT YIEALD TO NOBODY YOUR SOUL WE WILL TAKE
a leopard doesn't change its spots
Will the offense finally get some love on the needs list, or will the defense continue to reign supreme?
No, I don’t see Nix changing his ways, except, I have a suspicion he might go after a WR in FA. Blasphemy, I know, but, 3 straight years of drafting “D”, will necessitate some other form of action to help the “O”. He has to help the “O”, doesn’t he?
"a play in which nothing happens, that yet keeps audiences glued to their seats". -Vivian Mercier - a description of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"
According to Beckett, Godot was a metaphor for the Buffalo Bills :-)
Too many gaping holes to pick from on this terrible roster
There are so many holes on this team that prioritzing them is just about futile aside from the need for a potential franchise QB to groom. There was a time when I looked at WR as a position that was totally dependant on the QB for success and thus, of lesser importance than most positions, but given Goodell’s designs on turning the NFL into nothing more than an outlet for fantasy football, big talented WRs make plays by themselves and win games every week. I would have no problem with Buffalo drafting a WR high (as well as a pass catching TE). The same could be said for a pass rusher or two (my first choice if possible). As far as cornerback goes, I hate Buffalo’s stable outside of last year’s rookies. I think Buffalo might best suited to draft numbers at the position in 2012 (2-3 midround picks) and hope a few pan out.
I think pass rushers and WRs (including TE) are the priority, but since this team stinks across the board, you could make a cae for just about any position. There’s really no wrong answer on team this bad.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
dont hold back Port tell us how you really feel about the Bills.
.
“this terrible roster”
.
" As far as cornerback goes, I hate Buffalo’s stable outside of last year’s rookies."
.
" but since this team stinks across the board"
.
" on team this bad."
futile indeed, I am glad my team is not this bad.
My team just needs a #2WR, two RDE’s, SLB, and a #2CB to be playoff ready. A better LT, and a franchise QB would make us Super Bowl champs.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
by jbbillfan on Feb 7, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow. That’s bold, IMO. The Patriots have a franchise QB and a great LT and they haven’t won a SB in quite a while now.
And to think the team is playoff ready with those pieces added is still a pipe dream. Players have to gel with the team and the schematic design. Injuries have to be kept at bay or dealt with masterfully. It takes a lot of luck and a lot of misfortune by the other teams to get to and win a SB.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Yes it is bold, I was being bold on purpose as I was responding to a bold comment.
Yes the patriots have a franchise QB and a great LT, but they are missing a lot of pieces that we have. That is comparing apples and oranges.
I think we make the playoffs this year, but the last two pieces of the puzzle are the hardest to get and I am under no elusions that it will be easy.
This team is not as far away from being a playoff team as many on this site think IMO. That was the purpose of my comment.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
That’s as tall a grocery list as mine regardless of the difference in the use of adjectives. I think you underestimate just how far away they are after two years given that list.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
I dont think the list is any longer than many of the current playoff teams.
Every team gets to the end of the season and has a new set of needs to address before the next season. Injury, retirement, contracts, and just overall improvement all contribute to why every team has needs at the end of a year. Look at NE they have 17 UFA’s that they will have to deal with in the next month. I guarantee you between that and a few positions that they just need to improve at, they will have way more than five positions of need.
I list five players that IMO we need to get into the playoffs. You get two in FA and three in the first three rounds of the draft. I think it is very doable.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
How far away is any team though?
We did beat the Pats and lost to the SB champs by 3 points (in a game we should have won).
Three of the last five SB winners didn’t win more than 10 games. It’s all about getting hot at the right time. Say, maybe as hot as we were at the start of season???
It’s never THAT far away.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
I agree with a lot of that. Once Buffalo gets to the talent level threshold where 9-10 wins is plausible, I’ll be along for the ride in daydreaming about a Super Bowl run.
"There's only one C.J. Spiller." -Buddy Nix
That's why my criteria for keeping Gailey after this year is simple, double digit wins.
If they sneak in at 9-7 then I’d give him another year, but that’s tough to do.
With the addition of some competent WR play across from Stevie and a sembelance of a pass rush, I can see them possibly getting to that 9-10 win area.
It just depends on what they do this off-season. They have to keep the talent we developed and add a few key pieces, but can/will they is the question.
"I got no problem with 7-9 coming off of 4-12 as long as I don't buy a couch there, you got to keep moving" - Mike Schoop
Oh, the irony
I think that CB is a bigger need, but WR should probably be drafted higher. It’s easier to find a solid CB in the middle rounds as DBs are usually undervalued in the draft. (McGee was a 4th-round pick.) However, you are a lot less likely to find a solid #1 or #2 WR by that point.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 10:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree, but not in saying CB is a bigger need. I continue to look at a teams like the Jets and Eagles who have the best defensive backfields in the business, and I continue to see them fail when it matters most.
I don’t think an elite CB impacts the game as much as an elite offensive player from any position.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
to clarify my position
Assuming that Stevie is re-signed (yes, I realize that may be an invalid assumption), they could get by with Stevie, Marcus Easley, and David Nelson. They have some depth with Namaan Roosevelt, Brad Smith, Kamar Aiken, and Donald Jones, although I haven’t been impressed by Jones. (He’s “The Man with Teflon Hands”.) Ruvell Martin was awful as a receiver, but he’s a good special teams player.
On the other hand, they can not get by with what they currently have at corner. Aaron Williams will be one starter, and I like what I have seen of him so far. However, McGee has become injury-prone, Florence has become too slow (so he either holds or gets burned), and McKelvin can’t seem to make a play even though he gets good position. Reggie Corner is frequently out of position and is a poor tackler, and I can only hope that he will not be re-signed. Justin Rogers is a mostly unknown quantity at this point, but I’m not expecting him to become a starter.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The only thing I can get behind with them going into next season with the exact same situation at WR is it may keep them close to the discussion of Matt Barkley and Landry Jones. And i’m okay with that topic.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
WR
The Bills could get away with average DB’s if they could supply pressure on the QB’s. So assuming the Bills go after a pass rusher @ #1 a WR over a CB would be my choice…
Football is like life - it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority.
Vince Lombardi
by Goose22 on Feb 7, 2012 10:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The Bills could get away with average DB’s if they could supply pressure on the QB’s.
So much truth to this. Would you rather have a guy who can close the QB’s throwing window from around five seconds to around two seconds? Or a guy who can cover really well?
The cover guy can only cover one guy. The pass rusher covers all of them.
by lord gloom on Feb 7, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And part of it is due to the insane rules in place now. DBs can’t play their game the way it would serve them best. The league has largely negated their impact in close-call situations.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Even the best cover guy can’t cover a receiver forever. If you give a QB all day to throw, somebody will always get open.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
On Sunday, the only reason Brady completed any passes was because the pressure was lacking. When they got near him, he was terrible. The Giants weren’t lying about him being rattled easily. They just may not have been wise to ruffle his feathers before the big game.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Brady has always been susceptible to pressure. The Bills have just struggled to get any pressure on him over the past decade. But when you can rattle him, like they did in the week three matchup, he will make bad throws and bad decisions.
Brady also has to be the biggest wuss in the league. Any time a player so much as lays a finger on him, he whines to the refs. Remember the penalty Florence drew in week three for supposedly driving him to the turf? Replay showed Florence doing something that looked more like a game of patty-cake.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 1:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Combine this
With the fact that good teams these days run 5 deep at viable receiving threats, and it becomes clear that, if you have to take one, pressure supercedes cover.
ie New England has two TEs, some reasonable WRs, and Woodhead/Edelman; Indy had Tamme, Garcon, Wayne, Collie, Clark, and Addai/Brown are good receivers; New Orleans has a billion good receivers; the Giants have Manningham, Cruz, Nicks, Bradshaw, Ballard is OK, etc.
These days teams have a lot of viable receivers. Cover guys are needed, but pressure is the umbrella that makes it all work.
To answer the original question, I think our cover guys will look a LOT better with good pressure, and WR has almost no depth, so the choice is clear.
McGee, Florence, McKelvin, Rogers, and Williams are not Night Train, Prime Time, and Champ Bailey, but they’re not bad players, either. Not even McKelvin. Add Jairus Byrd at free safety… it’s clear that our coverage is better than our pressure at this point, but pressure is everything.
@lord gloom
The cover guy can only cover one guy. The pass rusher covers all of them.
That is sig worthy Sir!
"My new cat just farted on my lap. Smells like Bills football." BG.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Feb 7, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Voted CB
Look, I understand that we want better receivers, especially if Stevie is not resigned. But, the Bills still have guys the can catch the ball. They’d likely resign Roscoe, have David Nelson, would continue to develop Donald Jones, have a potential #1 in Marcus Easley, and can play Naaman Roosevelt, whose hands are like glue. I’m far less worried about that WR group than I am about our CBs. They are simply terrible. Terrence McGee is great when he’s on the field, and Aaron Williams shows promise, and Florence is half good, half bad. McKelvin and Reggie Corner shouldn’t even be on the roster. We need to stop allowing receivers to catch defensible balls, and to do that, we NEED better corners. And we need a lot of them.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 7, 2012 11:02 AM EST reply actions
If they re-sign Roscoe, I will lose some faith in the FO. I don’t need another year of five games then IR to tell me that Roscoe is too injury prone to make a difference in this offense.
"Slowly all the roles we act out become our identity. And in the end we are what we pretend to be." - Jerry Cantrell.
He’s the team’s Wicket and they need Yoda.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Roscoe’s a goner. Donald Jones can’t get his feet under him or his hands to accept enough passes. He’s being asked to play above his ceiling, if you ask me.
Nelson would make a fantastic TE in the mold of Hernandez, but he’s not going to be a player who takes over games.
Marcus Easley is the unknown but he’s definitely not guaranteed anything next year.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Easley has yet to play a game so you can’t count on him yet. Parish can’t stay healthy. So I’ll give you Nelson is good at slot and naaman is a good #4. for a #1 jones could barely play the #2 and Easley might have the skill to be a #1 but who knows he could completely crap himself during games. I won’t be ok with the FO if they go into next season banking on Easley staying healthy and being elite.
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard" -Norm Nixon
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
by ChewyFL on Feb 7, 2012 12:32 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I understand that without Stevie, our WR corps is significantly weaker. But, I think the Bills could manage with those guys. We are not managing with our current CBs. They are terrible.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 7, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree. Williams and Rodgers were rookies that didn’t even have a full off season with the coaches and at the end i thought they did better. If Stevie leaves and not looking at the draft we have 2 starting quality CBs(with possibly 2 pro bowl DTs heading towards the QB now) and one starting quality WR Nelson(in the slot) with Jones more of back up #2, Parrish on IR(hopefully cut), Roosevelt as #4 and Easley as much as an unknown as anyone. I’ll agree after Rodgers/Williams the CB is bad but i say one good CB and were pretty much set. At WR i say we need starting #2 plus some depth(thats if Easley stays healthy and is good)
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard" -Norm Nixon
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
I went WR
If we can add a quality #2 WR to the current offense it will really open this offense up and make it hard to stop.
Please base your arguments in provable facts instead of pulling stuff out of your rear. -CanadianBillsFan- This is why talk is cheap because the supply always exceeds the demand.
I voted WR
However, I think the CB position is important. Unlike most, I like our young CBs.
I also like McKelvin. He’s not as bad as some make him out to be. He’s not even mentioned nowhere.
I'm with you brother!
I think the corners could come on if the pass rush and the rest of the team improves around him.
I love our safeties…..
Both safeties to probowl with a strong pass rush and a wee- bit of luck
PodunkO - The great post ender!
I still think McKelvin’s problems are correctable. He gets good position, but doesn’t make the play. That might be something Wannstedt can fix, maybe not. Florence has become too slow, and McGee has become injury prone, neither of which is correctable. Reggie Corner rarely gets good position and is a poor tackler, so I don’t think he is worth keeping around any more.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 12:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Of course McKelvin's problems are fixable.
All he needs to do is put his arms up when the ball arrives!.
He won’t, though. I say get rid of him.
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 7, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
As much as you may not like him
McKelvin has a solid spot on this team as a special teams player in all situations. And he has enough physical talent to always be at least a competitor for a nickel or dime spot.
Forget his draft position: There ARE things the kid does, and does well.
What's the rules...
Are we assuming we still have all our FAs?
None?
What about free agency?
Without rules, it’s sorta silly…..
Without Johnson, our talent is pretty slim….we got the big slot guy in Nelson. then Donald Jones and Easley as potential, then Roosevelt and Aiken after that, then a bunch of, maybe, lesser guys after that.
No proven starters…,
How many starting wrs do rumblers think we can glean from current youth talent pool?
How many rumblers think Donald Jones still could turn out to be a good starter?
PodunkO - The great post ender!
This is an Apples and Oranges comparison
The WR will likely come through FA, as Chris Brown keeps telling us (he seems to be privy to the team’s thinking on this issue) while the CB will probably be a mid-round draft choice, so there may be no real choice or conflict between the two. CB is a position of need, but it’s also true that the Bills would be fine for 2012 even if they don’t add another one provided they take bold steps to improve the pass rush. Getting more pressure on the QB will make the current CB’s look a lot better.
One position that Brian is leaving out of his choices is QB. The Bills surely need to jump if a potential franchise QB becomes available to them in the draft. That would trump all other positions if it happens. But perhaps it’s true that QB doesn’t belong in the list we are generating, since they should only go for one if the opportunity presents itself.
by Macktruck on Feb 7, 2012 11:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I probably agree with you....
But I think our current brain trust is thinking if they really get a better team, Fitz is good enough to do it.
And, I think they might be right.
Now, the conversation turns to how much better?
Because, certainly, QBs no better than fitz have won a superbowl.
I say, if we really did add two very good starting DEs to our team,got the left tackle situation ironed out and got two very good receivers, got healthy and dotted the Is and crossed the Ts, this team could at the very least, be a serious challenger next year.
Kyle, Dareus and two high quality DEs would really tear it up something special.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
Yes, we are saying the same thing
I would also make a pass-rushing DE and DE/OLB the two main priorities in this year’s draft. My point is that if Nix and Gailey see a QB they believe could be special — perhaps Tannehill in the first round or Osweiler in the second — they should go for him. In effect there should be a regular list of the team’s main needs, but with the provision that if someone you think could become your franchise QB happens to be sitting there when you are on the board you don’t hesitate in taking him.
QBs and the draft
I agree that they need to start grooming the QB of the future, but I don’t think there will be a good opportunity to get one this year. Pass rusher seems like the obvious first-round choice, and there probably won’t be any good QB options at #10. Luck and Griffin will almost certainly be gone, Tanehill is too much of a risk, and Foles does not appear to be a #10 overall talent. (That could still change at the combine. He did look good in the Senior Bowl.) If either Tannehill or Foles are still available in round two, they would be good picks, but chances are that they will be gone by then. After that, there’s a big drop in talent/potential.
The one QB I keep looking at is Case Keenum. He put up phenomenal numbers on a consistent basis. The big issues with him are that he played in a spread offense against mostly inferior talent (Conference USA), so scouts are questioning if he is the real deal or just a product of a pass-oriented system at Houston. He is projected as a mid-round pick right now. I think he would fit well with Gailey’s spread offense, and his fantastic TD-to-INT ratio (48-5) this year shows he not only has the arm to make the throws, but he makes good decisions, too. He made some mistakes in the C-USA championship that cost them a shot at a BCS game, but then he played well against Penn State.
If they miss out on a QB this year, there should be some good first-round options next year, especially with Matt Barkley and Landry Jones returning to college for 2012.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 12:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If they want to draft a QB, they have to find a way to bottom out and get a guy that has THEE pedigree. People will point to Tom Brady but there’s a reason they point to him. He’s a rare breed.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care what anybody says....
Brady is a great QB
But, his line is just as important as he is.
They were outstanding versus the G-men.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
I disagree
There are only a couple of obvious first-round talent QBs this year, while it’s looking like there will be several next year. Although there was a mad scramble for quarterbacks in the last draft, Cam Newton looked like the only one that was a true first-round talent, so I’m okay with Nix taking guys who will be long-term starters (like Dareus and Aaron Williams) instead.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right. I meant they need to find a way to do it next year. This year’s group consists of Luck and RGIII, and then crickets.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Next year could be interesting
I think there will be several first-round talent QBs,
in addition to Barkley and Jones. If they don’t grab somebody this year, that might mean they’re holding out until the 2013 draft.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They need to, but will they?
If the team drafts high enough to contend for a top qb… one of the following is true:
-Nix/Gailey lost so many games that they’ll be fired
-Nix/Gailey lost so many games that they’ll be in “win now/hotseat” mode and won’t bet their season on a rookie QB
You just don’t get that many chances in the NFL. According to the New York Times, the average coach lasts around 3 years. I think QB is not going to happen – unless, of course, a new regime comes in and picks Their Guy early.
Fitz/Gailey are inseparable for now. If Gailey wins enough games to keep coaching here, it will A.) be because Fitz won a lot of games, decreasing the need for a replacement and B.) push is low enough into the first round that a QB will be a relatively developmental prospect.
This is just the practical reality of the situation…I think.
I like keenum
Just depends what round he will be available in. 4th makes me think hard about it but idk, 5th yes in a heartbeat.
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard" -Norm Nixon
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
by ChewyFL on Feb 7, 2012 1:15 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
It is not gonna happen......
Unless they release Fitz….
And they gave thigpen 11 frickin’ mill!
That is the worst move chixy has made in their two years I think…..
The iffiness of fitzy’s game makes me wish we had a guy with clear starter potential behind him….
Whatsayyou? Bills’ fans?
Do we wave thigpen and eat his contract? I have no idea how much that would be….
Anybody?
PodunkO - The great post ender!
Thigpen is awful, and he is neither the present nor the future
On the other hand, I’m guessing that, because he isn’t a starter, very little (if any) of his contract is guaranteed. If they could grab a good prospect in the draft, I would have no qualms about kicking Thigpen to the curb.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 2:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Receiver is a much bigger need...
Our DB’s had down years, but I think George Edwards’ coaching had MUCH to do with their poor performances. I’ve never seen an NFL secondary miss so many assignments. They looked like a college back end: face guarding, late to recognize routes, not even trying to locate the ball. I don’t think any of them are as bad they played in Edwards scheme. He had boom or bust coverages, setting route traps that were awesome if he guessed right, and made the players look terrible if he guessed wrong. Wanstadt plays a simpler brand of defense, more man coverage and bracketing. If we play 100% Wanstadt’s defense, then fast LB’s who can cover ground will be more important than cornerbacks.
At wide receiver, if Marcus Easley does not emerge as a secondary target, then we simply don’t have one on the roster. As far as the draft is concerned, this class of WR’s is much deeper than corner. And the receivers coming out this year are GIANTS.
If Buffalo snags any of these 3 guys in Round 2-3 then I will be satisfied…
Alshon Jeffery – 6’4" 229 lbs
Michael Floyd – 6’3" 224 lbs
Brian Quick – 6’5" 220 lbs
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 7, 2012 12:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
One thing I like....
Is that we have those 3 (probable) mid-round picks to either round out our roster or trade back up into the 2 or 3 rd.
But I think anyone who thinks we can be a serious contender without an applauded free agency period is delusional….we have to nail FA period, then the draft.
Go Bills!
PodunkO - The great post ender!
I have a feeling the first two on your list are gone by round 2.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Adams - Ark.
What do people think of Joe. He seems crazy fast and good hands. Had a very good senior bowl week and I think the combine will boost him because I have seen prediction on 5.3 40 time. Not the tallest but not horrible and I think speed would help his height.
I’m not even close to an expert so wondering what you guys think of him. Slot,#1 or #2? What round?
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard" -Norm Nixon
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
by ChewyFL on Feb 7, 2012 1:02 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
5.3 40 would not be a good time for an NFL WR. Maybe a DT.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
sorry my bad 4.3
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard" -Norm Nixon
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
He’s a small guy (5’11", 174lbs) and projects as a slot receiver in the NFL. He is expected to go in the middle rounds (3-4), but he doesn’t sound like much of a fit for Buffalo. We already have a plethora of slot receivers.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 2:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
None
with 4.3 speed.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
He doesn't play
as fast as he times, but how good he becomes is completely up to him. Based on what he did in college and his athleticism I’d take no earlier than the 4th round because picks 1, 2, and 3 you want guys who can potentially start… Adams certainly cannot.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
Yup...
But Jeffery could easily fall into the 2nd when he runs his 40 in the 4.6’s. I think Quick might be my favorite of the 3, he’s a lot like Brandon Marshall but more of a vertical receiver and not quite as strong. I’d be ecstatic if Buffalo got him
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
I still like Kendall Wright in R1
while he is small, he has a lot of the skillset of Evans whom we just traded away, he adds a couple of important ones to be a good WR1/2 in this offense – the intermediate route running, and willingness to block.
The other intangible is, having played with RG III, how much of his success is due to the QB, and how much of the QB’s success is on him? I’m willing to take the gamble that there’s a significant amount of the latter.
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Feb 7, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions
The only problem is that Fitzpatrick’s accuracy is suspect and terrible on long passes. If they draft a burner (aren’t all NFL players burners?), then he needs to be very tall.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
What?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
I think the Bills are determined to get taller/bigger at WR. Wright is only 5’10", 190lbs. Alshon Jeffery is 6’4", 233lbs, Michael Floyd is 6’3", 215lbs, Mohamed Sanu is 6’2", 215lbs, and Rueben Randle is 6’4", 207lbs. There are plenty of good options for Nix to find the kind of guy he says he wants.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 12:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't like saying we need a big wr.......
That is we ended up with Hardy.
And we passed a couple of small stars that way…..
I will say this though….. It is much easier throwing to a big guy….
PodunkO - The great post ender!
James Hardy was a stiff who couldn’t run routes. There were several WRs who were busts in that draft. We were fortunate to find the gem in the 7th round — Stevie Johnson.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we get production
like any one of these guys, it will be an excellent pick…
Steve Smith 5’ 9, 185
Mario Manningham…6’ 0, 185
Santana Moss 5’ 10, 205
Greg Jennings 5’ 11, 198
DeSean Jackson 5’ 10, 175
I definitely think he’s the second most talented WR in this draft, behind Blackmon (who is unlikely to be there at 10).
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Feb 7, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
NO...
I was curious to see why he was thought so highly of so I checked him out and am still left curious. He’s a good athlete with just one year of stellar production, but he was never asked to run pro routes or make pro reads. A guy with his size and question marks you just don’t want until the mid rounds, there are much surer shots available in Rds 1-3.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
still say
OT is #1 need.
"Will&Work2Win"coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Feb 7, 2012 12:36 PM EST reply actions
Resign Bell
And we are set at OT. We had one of the best offensive lines in the league last year all we have to do is provide some mid to late round depth
dont agree on Bell
and remember if there was one position that had fortune on its side & well overproduced it was the Oline. Be foolish to expect that 2 yrs in a row.
"Will&Work2Win"coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Feb 7, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not so sure. Not that they don’t need an upgrade, but i’m not sure success in Gailey’s offense is predicated on an elite LT.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
About Bell....
The thing about Bell is that we don’t know squat about his injury status.
Did he hurt the same shoulder 3times now? And if so, has it become chronic?
What about his legs?
Torn meniscus (I think) this year, torn ACL two years ago…..
I don’t think there is any doubt that, healthy, he is already good enough to get by and, again healthy, he would get even better.
I hope our doctors don’t screw this up.
Also, I am not as convinced as others that somebody won’t " Pozluzny" him with an offer. And then what do you do?
It isn’t easy breezily….but, yes, I love him if healthy.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
It has been discussed that Bell won’t even be their LT du jour in 2012. He may be second chair.
"Son. People can see you!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 7, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Between Bell and Hairston, there seems to be a reasonable expectation that they can survive the season. If they lose Bell to free agency, then they are only creating another need. We only have so many draft picks, and we have enough needs already.
by SiriusRed on Feb 7, 2012 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
excellent point
chans O is very kind to the OT position.
still Bells injury history has been horrible & barely acceptable for a back up; do like the rookie thou.
"Will&Work2Win"coach Karma420
by Blood, sweat & Win on Feb 7, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Can't have a good CB without a pass rush
When really thinking about it this year, there were so many times that opposing QBs had what seemed like 10 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. That proves to me that our coverage was very good most of the time. The issue is getting to the QB. If we can cover for 5 seconds then that is all we should need to ask of our corners. If we had any bit of a pass rush then we would have a great pass defense.
You are absolutely right.....
I also think that if we just learned to win, they would get confidence and it would show up in their play.
PodunkO - The great post ender!
Does anyone agree
that targeting a CB in free agency might be a better idea. We have seen so many project players come through buffalo and then leave to have more success in other places. If we are willing to pay money for a semi-accomplished starter from another team it really might improve this team. There are former Bill CB’s all over the league having success. Let another team deal with the learning experience.
by billshabsriders on Feb 7, 2012 12:59 PM EST reply actions
Not with the vets already on the team making the kind of money they are making.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 7, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
If we are willing to pay money for a semi-accomplished starter from another team it really might improve this team.
So you want another Drayton Florence?
"The Amish Rifle is your god now." - Muzza34
by BuffaloOwdaTwnr on Feb 8, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that maybe last year....
That maybe there was somebody better (and maybe younger) at that price level.
I din’t look at the market, but I had heard it was a great year for FA corners…..
What about this year?
PodunkO - The great post ender!
cortland finnegan, ladarious webb (R), brent grimes, carlos rogers, brandon carr...
are the big names. And the list of mid-level guys is pretty long too. A lot of players that would be an upgrade or compliment to our guys.
by billshabsriders on Feb 7, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Any chance we could pull off this draft?
1) Courtney Upshaw
2) Alshon Jeffery
3) Chase Minnifield
This one is too close to call...
Both pretty big needs IMO.
Mas playmakers por favor.
The score dictated they pass
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 7, 2012 11:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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