Buffalo Rumblings: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Favre to the Jets Bar-right-arrows



QB Debate Rages On in Buffalo

Does Edwards have support of coaches? (Courtesy: BuffaloBills.com)

Another week and a second win are in the books for the Buffalo Bills after the team defeated the Ravens 19-14 at Ralph Wilson Stadium yesterday. There is a growing sense of confidence amongst the young team after three consecutive strong performances - even if all of those performances were played out in front of a home crowd. Yet despite the improved play we've witnessed in the last month, a storm cloud hovers over the Bills: who will play quarterback this week?

This is a question that many Bills fans don't wish to answer on a week-to-week basis. With QB J.P. Losman fully healthy (and presumably rust-free), the question has resurfaced again - will the young leader and team captain be given the chance to re-claim his starting role, or will the coaching staff stick with rookie Trent Edwards, the starter in both victories? Each week the debate rages on, the Bills fan base continues to become more divided on the issue. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has the Bills' best interests in mind.

No matter which QB you're behind (or if you're neutral - bless you), what's getting lost in the shuffle is that there very likely isn't much debate going on in the mind of the one person whose opinion really matters here: Bills head coach Dick Jauron. If you're a betting man (or woman), pony up the bucks on Edwards - he's likely to start next week against the Jets, at the very least.

Jauron's Style = Edwards' Style
If there is one deciding factor in predicting the winner of this controversy, it's taking into consideration the coaching style of Dick Jauron. The coach is often described as conservative, calculating in looking for big plays, a great teacher and, from the negative perspective, a coach that "plays not to lose". With that in mind, take a look at the description of Edwards' performance yesterday by the Ravens blogger Rexx at Baltimore Beat Down:

Quarterback Trent Edwards did just enough not to lose the game, and actually made a few big plays at key points to keep drives alive.

Uncanny, right? Those words are literally a microcosm of the exact style of play Jauron has become known for. You may not like it, but the writing is on the wall: Losman has often been described as a "gunslinger" and is at his best when using his athleticism and strong arm to make plays down the field. There is a contingent of people, myself among them, who feel Losman would excel in a scheme that played to his strengths and allowed him to be a playmaker. A conservative, methodical approach is not, and never will be, Losman's style - and that's to his credit. You have to love a fearless QB like that. But, unfortunately, it probably places him a notch below the conservative, methodical Edwards in Jauron's mind.

It is certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, in my mind that J.P. Losman can be a successful quarterback for this Bills team. I'm also certain that the events of the past month (i.e. losing his job to injury) have been incredibly unfair to the young signal-caller, and I've long felt that he's the better quarterback right now between he and Edwards. But again, that's just my opinion - what really matters is Jauron's. Edwards and Jauron just seem too perfect a style marriage at this point to believe that the coach will insert Losman back into the lineup at any point in the near future.

Whether you agree or disagree with naming a starter - at any position - based on your style of coaching, think about this: Jauron, for better or worse, has his beliefs, and they're instilled in the schemes this team runs. He's taken a lot of criticism for playing conservatively; what if the pile of losses he's endured have been because he hasn't had time to find the right players? There's a chance that Edwards is the QB that Jauron always envisioned building a team around; doesn't the coach deserve the chance to prove that he can (finally) win with his schemes, his conservatism and his quarterback?

Again, a Plea
Let's avoid naivety, folks - based on his status with the current regime, his style of play and his potential, it's a near certainty that Edwards will get the call from Jauron when he makes yet another QB announcement on Wednesday. My plea, once again, to Dick Jauron is this: make the decision permanent.

Seriously: there is no longer a point to further playing out the "one week at a time" bit. The coaches have seen over a year of Losman, and have seen enough of Edwards over the past four games to know what to expect out of him as well. Both players are healthy, talented and players that the Bills can win football games with. This time, the decision has to be final. There's nothing more to wait for. The time is now to end this debate (at least internally) and move forward with the remaining 10 games on the schedule.

So please, Coach Jauron. Name your starter, and name him permanently. End the charade - your job is difficult enough as it is. Please, for the sanity of Bills fans everywhere, make these next two days the last two days we'll have to talk about this.

0 recs | Comment 17 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

Disagree
Sorry Brian.  I agree but disagree.  Losman is the better choice right now.  And because of that, I believe that Jauron will pick Losman for the rest of the season.  I think the organization has seen enough of Edwards (very pleased, for a rookie), so they can let Losman play out this year and maybe next.  Like Schaub and other similar situations, Buffalo can now go with their starter and postpone the decision (including a trade) until at least the end of this season.  By doing this, they can play the better player right now and decide (probably based on money) who to keep for the long term.  I think the one thing the Bills CANNOT do is decide on Edwards to be the starter right now for the long term and let Losman go (via trade) before next season -- that decision is too soon.  If they did that, they would have to bring in a vet, and why would they do that when they have Losman for fairly cheap (and proven).  

by labill on Oct 22, 2007 6:47 PM EDT   0 recs

I hope you're right
It's no secret that I've been a big supporter of starting Losman. I just think the writing is on the wall - though, obviously, I hope I'm wrong. :)
Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2007 6:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you know...
...my stance.  I'm a JP Losman guy.  Always have been behind him 100%.  I love that free-wheeling, gunslinging athleticism that he brings to the table and I wish the Bills and Jauron would realize that that style would fit this team better than conservatism.  

I realize, however, that Wilson, Levy, and Jauron won't change for a QB, and that Edwards is probably their guy.  I wish JP Losman the absolute best of luck if he gets a chance to start somewhere else (which I'm sure he will/should), and look forward to watching him in a Pro Bowl or two (that's obviously exaggeration because I would never subject myself to watching the Pro Bowl) down the road.  

So, in conclusion, I'm okay with Edwards being the QB if that's the decision, but my heart and alliances still lie with JP Losman when the debate comes up with friends and family.  

The only real important thing is that the Bills won, and can keep winning.  Maybe there can be something to this season after all...

http://ifitsfairitsgone.blogspot.com

by nickfeely8 on Oct 22, 2007 7:30 PM EDT   0 recs

QB
I think Losman to start because he earned the job and has his teammates' respect, but I don't think the coaches see it that way. Right now Edwards is a better fit for the team because he's effective at keeping drives alive and moving the ball, while keeping the young D off the field.  

However, I still don't understand going with Edwards because isn't our offense built for a more downfield passing game?  With Fairchild's Rams roots and smaller, quicker receivers we should be able to throw it further than 10 yards with some success.  We haven't done it with either QB this year, but Losman is better suited for this style of passing.  I just hate that the coaches are 'building' around schemes, but then completely misuse our players.  Same thing is going on with the defense.  We are trying to build a D around speed, but instead we sign two below average pass rushers to monster deals. On O we have the tools for a downfield passing attack, but it appears the coaches don't want to play that way.

No matter who plays QB, I just want to see wins and lots of them.  I feel JP shouldn't have lost his job in this fashion and still think he needs another chance here. I just hope we aren't playing Edwards because he's better at dinking and dunking. That's not going to EVER make us a contender.

~K

by Kurupt on Oct 22, 2007 8:19 PM EDT   0 recs

Man...
After last year, I saw JP succeeding this year and saw the handcuffs coming off for an exciting year. However, this has not happened. Even though we are on the verge of being better, we are still rebuilding and it shows.
However, with Sunday's gameplan I think Losman would have shined. Alot of shotgun and no huddle is exactly what makes Losman potent.
It sucks because I'd hate to lose Losman and his potential, but, when seeing Edwards in the preseason and even now, you get that sickly feeling, that Edwards may be a better fit and maybe even a better QB.
I see Edwards staying in, but I wouldn't be upset to see JP in there for the rest of the year, unless he does poorly in NY, in which after the first half he will be officially yanked for the season. (Also doesn't help him that he calls the coaches out).
The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Oct 22, 2007 8:41 PM EDT   0 recs

Too Many Assumptions
I would like to know how losing your job when you are injured is not fair. If somebody steps up and outperforms you while you are gone,did they not earn the job in your stead? What would not be fair, is for the player who stepped in and played better NOT to be given the job. It's debatable whether or not Edwards has played better than JP, but that's up to the coaches.

I don't think it's really fair to say that Jauron will go with Edwards because they have similar "styles." You pigeon-holed Edwards as being methodical and conservative, but what I think you really mean is he reads coverages and isn't has the intelligence to hit secondary receivers. I love JP as much as anybody and I haven't been this happy with our QB situation in a long time, because I won't be losing sleep with either one of them in there.

As far as the divide in the fan base goes, I think it splits into 3 camps: people who fell in "love" with JP, objective people, and people who are falling in "love" with Edwards. I, paradoxically, have fallen into all 3 camps. I am attached to both players equally, so that helps me see the upside to starting either QB. The bottom line is the coaches want to win more than anybody, and they are going to do what's best for everybody, it doesn't matter who's in love with whom. One thing I do know that everybody has to agree with is Trent Edwards is a much smarter QB than JP. Hey, if Bill Walsh and Steve Young like Trent, then I like Trent.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Oct 23, 2007 12:15 AM EDT   0 recs

Re:
I don't think it's really fair to say that Jauron will go with Edwards because they have similar "styles." You pigeon-holed Edwards as being methodical and conservative, but what I think you really mean is he reads coverages and isn't has the intelligence to hit secondary receivers.

What's fair, then? Saying he'll stick with Edwards because the Bills have beaten (barely) two below-average teams, at home, with the rook at the helm? Saying he'll stick with Edwards because of the "continuity" factor? Switching back to Losman because "Trent's just a rookie, and we're still in this thing"?

I'm not pigeon-holing Edwards. Compared to Losman, he is methodical and conservative, where as J.P. is borderline reckless and explosive. They're both admirable qualities - and to be honest, I prefer the gunslinger to the game manager. But why wouldn't the calm, calculated, conservative Jauron compare those two aspects of his quarterbacks, match them up to what he wants from his offense and say "Edwards' style is better suited to this team's style, and therefore he gives us the best chance to win"? I think style has everything to do with this decision, because it ultimately gives Jauron the idea that one QB or another is the best fit for the job.

Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Oct 23, 2007 7:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll tell you why
If Dick Jauron took QB's based on their styles, then why did he trade away Kelly Holcomb? Kelly Holcomb is a dink-dunk game-manager that you're making Edwards out to be. If your theory is correct, he would be our QB (and would have been last year, too). You've made it out like Edwards doesn't have an arm and doesn't like going down the field. The two times he went vertical last Sunday his throws were ON THE MONEY. Samari Rolle had great coverage on the one to Roscoe, but he would have caught it in stride. The pass to Lee was very accurate as well, Lee was looking at the TD and not the ball. I can't remember the last time JP hit a receiver in stride unless it was a deep ball to Evans. The only QB that is a "gunslinger" in this league (and good at it) is Brett Favre. There will never be another Brett Favre. I don't know why you would prefer a gunslinger, (sure, it's exciting) because Brett Favre's mentality has kept him from doing what truly great, complete QB's do: win championships.  I know he got one, but he could have had a lot more if he played smarter (IMO). Would you consider Tom Brady a gunslinger? No. He's one of the smartest and most accurate QB's to ever play the game. Which is another thing that JP just lacks: accuracy. JP can barely check the ball down to his backs because he "slings" it so hard.

I just feel we've seen enough of JP to know what he can do and can't do. He can make plays with his legs, he can take a lot of sacks and fumble a lot, he can throw extremely hard, he can throw deep extremely well, he's a good leader, a great competitor, HE DOESN'T READ COVERAGES well enough IMO. Watching Trent play, he just seems to do everything right. Sure he's a rookie, and he made a couple of costly errors late in games. But he may be the brightest guy in Buffalo right behind Marv Levy and Dick Jauron, and I don't see him making the same mistakes over and over like the aforementioned Losman.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Oct 23, 2007 1:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My allegiance to Losman aside...
Not once did I knock Edwards' arm. "Game managers" don't dink and dunk - I never said "dink and dunk", either. My quote, in fact, was this:
The coach is often described as conservative, calculating in looking for big plays, a great teacher and, from the negative perspective, a coach that "plays not to lose".

That's the most accurate description of Jauron I could muster, and it also explains why Losman got the nod over Holcomb - because he could make the big play. That's something that Jauron and Steve Fairchild both covet from this offense - and it's something that Kelly Holcomb could not deliver as consistently as Losman. My guess is that the coaching staff felt they could keep that explosive aspect to Losman's game while developing the controlled, conservative side of his game.

With Edwards, they're seeing a guy who moves the chains well and can hit the big play. Trent is, essentially, a nice combination of Holcomb's calm and Losman's arm. It's not perfect, since he's a rookie, but it is the style that Jauron prefers.

Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Oct 23, 2007 1:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My Apologies
I was under the impression that calling somebody a conservative game manager that "plays not to lose" implied that they dink and dunk. And with the gunslinging references I also thought you were saying that Edwards won't open up and make tough throws. My bad.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Oct 23, 2007 10:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

just a note here...
I would say that Tony Romo is a "gunslinger" as well as Brett, but now we are just getting into semantics.
http://ifitsfairitsgone.blogspot.com

by nickfeely8 on Oct 24, 2007 2:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

jp is not explosive
he's implosive. i've said it before, and i'll keep saying it. he loses football games. puts the ball on the ground, and makes the team around him worse.

i'm also a little astounded that everyone seems to be writing off trent edwards' arm after so little game time. it's not jp's arm, but it's a good arm.

please take a look at ben roethlisberger's first season, and tell me there aren't any uncanny similarities in play. the play is conservative, because rookies make mistakes. the play will open up, when he has a firmer grasp on the personnel and play book.

edwards is a good play moving forward. he'll be a damn good qb.

by sri on Oct 23, 2007 8:03 AM EDT   0 recs

re:
I took your advice and compared Trent to Ben's rookie season. Roethlisberger 17 td's 11 int's 98.1 QB rating. Edwards 1 td 4 int's 71.3 rating. Other than conservative styles, not much to compare. I like Edwards, but I think he still has a lot to learn and would be better off doing that while holding a clipboard on the sidelines. I don't think it matters, though. Brian is right. It seems that Jauron has already made up his mind. I just hope it doesn't set this team back another 3-4 years.

by drew173 on Oct 23, 2007 8:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

re:?
You can't just start comparing every rookie to Roethlisberger. Especially since by the end of the ear Edwards' stats could be comparable.
These are team games and at that time, Ben had a better supporting cast. Edwards here is part of a rebuilding, not a plug in QB who will catch up t the rest of the team, but a player who will mature with the team.
I think JP can be good, but it's his head that troubles me. In my opinion, Edwards' arm is sufficient to say the least. The long pass to Lee would have been a TD if Lee could have just caught it straight away instead of bobbling it.
My only concern of Edwards was a second straight INT at the pivotal point of the game. Hopefully he won't three-peat that.
The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Oct 23, 2007 9:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Further point...
the play is conservative, because rookies make mistakes. the play will open up, when he has a firmer grasp on the personnel and play book.

It's far more complicated than that. Over the next few weeks, we'll see defenses take entirely different approaches to defending the Bills because they now have a big enough sample size on Edwards to know what he's good at and where he's weak. As bad as the Jets and Bengals are, Eric Mangini and Marvin Lewis are creative schemers. Don't expect those two games to be walks in the park just because they've combined for 3 wins.

The play will open up once Edwards gets more comfortable (and he's looked less and less comfortable each week, in my opinion) and the Bills can counteract the change in defensive philosophy from our opponents we're sure to see over the next few weeks.

Of course, if Losman starts, this entire conversation is moot...

Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Oct 23, 2007 9:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Losman Guy, but Agree Writing's on the Wall
I thought Ralph had a hand in Edwards starting last week too?  I like Losman, but I'm not sure how he's supposed to be successful with a game plan like the Bills called the first few games of the season (the tough Ds had something to do with it as well, I guess).

He's coming off a 7-9 season in which he was statistically much improved.  He had a few bad starts where it seemed like he was set up to fail by the gameplan.  He wasn't drafted by the current regime.  All of that points to Edwards being the guy that Jauron (and Levy) would go with.  Not saying it's right, but it's apparent.

by thetaxman on Oct 23, 2007 9:54 AM EDT   0 recs

Brian - original post
I couldn't agree more with your original post.

I want JP in at QB, that's no secret to anyone around here.  At the same time, I would be SHOCKED if he is named the starter. Edwards playing style and abilities simply fits better in Jauron's ultra-conservative, dink-and-dunk, play-not-to-lose offense.  

The thing I'm getting sick of hearing is how people can so easily give up on JP after 2 games this season.  Some people are extremely short-sited.  They forget that he looked like a top-15 QB the second-half of last season.  They forget the "buzz" at Bills Mini-camp this past spring about how explosive the bills offense looked.  Many times I heard the phrase "you never see the ball hitting the ground," from those who got to see the practices, including Peter King of CNNSI and John Clayton of ESPN.  

JP didn't play great in those two games, but to me it was all about scheme rather then quality of QB play.  I don't know what changed between mini-camp and the first game, but I do know that the "explosive" offense we kept hearing was put, permanently, on the shelf.  

Instead the Bills asked JP to throw in very minimal situations, most of the time on third and long when defenses were expecting the pass.  It was brutal to watch.

Many wanted to put the blame on JP, and maybe a little of that is true.  Even so, if ALL of it was JP's fault (which is an absurd statement), ALL QB's go through bad stretches.  Look at how Drew Brees and Carson Palmer started this season.  

Either way though, you're right, it only matters what Jauron thinks and what he's looking for in an offense.  It's clear that he wants the 'conservative' approach and if that's the case, then there really is not a QB controversy because Edwards is the best QB for THAT system (even though he may or may not be the better QB, or even if it would be detrimental to the team to give up on a veteran QB you invested so much time in developing).  

Even if JP comes back in, by some miracle, he would not be successful in the offense Jauron wants to run, because his strengths' simply do not coincide with that particular style.  

It's sad.  I, like you, want a gunslinger QB who is always a threat to stretch the field.  There's nothing wrong with the opposite (insert Brady and what he's doing this year as an example), but it's a mere preference in philosophy.  I'd much rather have a down field passing game then a ball-control, dink-and-dunk offense.  I'd much rather have Brett Farve or Mark Brunell as my QB then Tom Brady or Chad Pennington.  

One last note:  I do not mind a conservative offense.  I love "Marty-ball." I love lining up and smacking the shit out of the opposition.  What the Bills are doing, however, is far from that.  Marty-ball, or "smash-mouth" offenses, still attempt to attack down field.  They run to set up the pass and they use play-action to his passes down field.  The Bills, simply,  are not doing that.  Essentially the Bills are not using their conservative offense to their advantage in the passing game.  When you run and throw a lot of short passes defenses start to stack the box in an attempt to thwart that.  Of course, the obvious remedy is to take shots downfield.  But you can't just line up and attempt to throw it downfield in obvious passing situations or from the shotgun formation with four wide-outs, you have to be able to do it when the defense has eight men on the line of scrimmage.  You have to do it using the play-action pass.  The Bills have not done that.  They are not using their conservative offense to their advantage in the passing game and the results are telling.  This TYPE of conservative offense is self-destructive.  Especially with a QB that is already not built to play in game-controlled offense.

John I.

by jri111 on Oct 23, 2007 12:32 PM EDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Daily updates on the Buffalo Bills, featuring opinions, analysis, news updates and the most intelligent community of Bills fans on the Internet.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
My four days at Bills Camp

Recent FanPosts

Russert_small
INFORMED FAVRE RUMOR
Small
Farve now a N.Y. Jet
Images_small
Its official: Favre is a Jet
Holly3_small
Why Peters should honor his contract like everyone else.
Images_small
Jets now front-runner for Favre
211_talking_proud_1_small
Looking good?
Drycanyon_small
NFL Network Bills' Preseason Schedule
Small
You made me go Brian
211_talking_proud_1_small
A couple of words from my mouth...
Joker-marmalard2_small
Somebody finally says it

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Executive Editor

Boba_small Brian Galliford

The Triumvirate

Daffy_duck_small jri111

Joker-marmalard2_small Kurupt

180px-cobra_commander_small sireric

ad

Site Meter